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Who do you think wins? We don't know too much about either one's abilities in combat, but Tulak Hord is said to be the greatest lightsaber duelist of the ancient Sith Lords, and that's saying something, since the ancient Sith make the later Jedi and Sith as "children playing with toys" in comparison to their prowess. Marka Ragnos is a powerful Sith sorcerer though, and he does have that fancy scepter of his, so...

You found this place via Googling KotOR, didn't you?


Kreia's line is worthy of skepticism at best. She didn't live amongst the ancients, and she's a notorious manipulator.

Aside from Ragnos defeating Simus, ruling for a century uncontested, and his ghost spooking Kressh and Sadow, he has no reputable feats. Tulak Hord's even worse with NOTHING to his name other than the word of Liar McDeceptionpants.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
You found this place via Googling KotOR, didn't you?

Ha, most recently found it by Googling Marka Ragnos Discussion, as I was looking for a thread somewhere that focused only on him. I have visited this site for a year or two though, but only registered after truly exploring it a few days ago.

As for Kreia... I have no idea why people disregard her. She was the Jedi librarian. She was a historical expert. She'd know a lot about Tulak Hord, and there's no reason for her to wildly invent things about a certain Sith Lord. She was simply telling the Exile history about each Sith in the tombs. It's reliable and accurate information as far as I'm concerned.

As for Marka Ragnos, I think he accomplished quite a lot. He kept the Sith Empire stable and prosperous, he led it into its Golden Age. Sadow messed things up. Ragnos at least was not a fool who rushed into a confrontation with the much larger Republic which doomed the Sith Empire. And as much as I dislike the "Ragnos-Crowned-Kun" retcon, as it stands now Ragnos was the one who effectively brought about the Great Sith War, which safely secured the future of the Sith, for Kun's Sith lived on even after their defeat, and allowed Revan's Sith to rise to power. If Ragnos had not done that, I doubt the Sith would have gained such power for a very long time, if ever.

Originally posted by AncientSithLord
Ha, most recently found it by Googling Marka Ragnos Discussion, as I was looking for a thread somewhere that focused only on him. I have visited this site for a year or two though, but only registered after truly exploring it a few days ago.

As for Kreia... I have no idea why people disregard her. She was the Jedi librarian. She was a historical expert. She'd know a lot about Tulak Hord, and there's no reason for her to wildly invent things about a certain Sith Lord. She was simply telling the Exile history about each Sith in the tombs. It's reliable and accurate information as far as I'm concerned.

As for Marka Ragnos, I think he accomplished quite a lot. He kept the Sith Empire stable and prosperous, he led it into its Golden Age. Sadow messed things up. Ragnos at least was not a fool who rushed into a confrontation with the much larger Republic which doomed the Sith Empire. And as much as I dislike the "Ragnos-Crowned-Kun" retcon, as it stands now Ragnos was the one who effectively brought about the Great Sith War, which safely secured the future of the Sith, for Kun's Sith lived on even after their defeat, and allowed Revan's Sith to rise to power. If Ragnos had not done that, I doubt the Sith would have gained such power for a very long time, if ever. We all know this. All of us.

Kreia was a manipulator and deceiver. She also did not live amidst the Ancient Sith.

Ragnos did things. Hurray. Great combat feat there. Doing stuff and what-not.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
We all know this. All of us.

Nor was I implying you didn't. I was simply making a point; Kreia should know her stuff.

But this is somewhat off-topic is it not?

Originally posted by AncientSithLord
Nor was I implying you didn't. I was simply making a point; Kreia should know her stuff.

But this is somewhat off-topic is it not? No it's not. Tulak Hord has NOTHING to his name. Absolutely nothing. Kreia's line about the Ancients being uber swordsman means nothing when there IS nothing to work with.

Apart from the fact Tulak Hord was the greatest lightsaber duelist among the ancient Sith, and that he recorded his techniques in a holocron. There's nothing to suggest that's not true, and if we're solely going to rely on detailed OOU explanations, then we'll have to forget about a lot of established Star Wars history etc.

We don't know much about either Tulak Hord or Marka Ragnos. Who cares? This is a forum for fights between various Star Wars characters.

Originally posted by AncientSithLord
Apart from the fact Tulak Hord was the greatest lightsaber duelist among the ancient Sith, and that he recorded his techniques in a holocron. There's nothing to suggest that's not true, and if we're solely going to rely on detailed OOU explanations, then we'll have to forget about a lot of established Star Wars history etc.Actually we do forget about a lot hearsay because it's... hearsay. You know who else made a holocron? Everybody who's better and more documented that Tulak "I was mentioned briefly that one time" Hord.

Originally posted by AncientSithLord
We don't know much about either Tulak Hord or Marka Ragnos. Who cares? This is a forum for fights between various Star Wars characters. Stay here another week or so. Eventually you'll see that we demand evidence for everything and the most logical conclusion just in case something's missing. This is that forum that will Ignore/Flame you for using your imagination. Empiricism FTW.

Go us. rockon

Originally posted by AncientSithLord
As for Kreia... I have no idea why people disregard her. She was the Jedi librarian. She was a historical expert. She'd know a lot about Tulak Hord, and there's no reason for her to wildly invent things about a certain Sith Lord. She was simply telling the Exile history about each Sith in the tombs. It's reliable and accurate information as far as I'm concerned.
If she was indeed a Jedi Librarian, that would disqualify her from making any statements regarding the ancient sith, seeing as how (I'm not sure about the shitty continuity) the Jedi didn't exactly talk to them during the Great Hyperspace War, and the Jedi CERTAINLY didn't confront Ragnos or Tulak(they were long dead).

As for Marka Ragnos, I think he accomplished quite a lot. He kept the Sith Empire stable and prosperous, he led it into its Golden Age. Sadow messed things up. Ragnos at least was not a fool who rushed into a confrontation with the much larger Republic which doomed the Sith Empire. And as much as I dislike the "Ragnos-Crowned-Kun" retcon, as it stands now Ragnos was the one who effectively brought about the Great Sith War, which safely secured the future of the Sith, for Kun's Sith lived on even after their defeat, and allowed Revan's Sith to rise to power. If Ragnos had not done that, I doubt the Sith would have gained such power for a very long time, if ever.

I'm not sure how you figure that Ragnos brought about the Great Sith War. MY suggestion to you is, go back to whatever n00b forum you're from and argue nonsense there.

Hord.

Having two socks is more irritating than I thought it would be.

Rex and Ush need to make this an invite only forum from now on.

Which foot do they belong to?

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
If she was indeed a Jedi Librarian, that would disqualify her from making any statements regarding the ancient sith, seeing as how (I'm not sure about the shitty continuity) the Jedi didn't exactly talk to them during the Great Hyperspace War, and the Jedi CERTAINLY didn't confront Ragnos or Tulak(they were long dead).

As for Marka Ragnos, I think he accomplished quite a lot. He kept the Sith Empire stable and prosperous, he led it into its Golden Age. Sadow messed things up. Ragnos at least was not a fool who rushed into a confrontation with the much larger Republic which doomed the Sith Empire. And as much as I dislike the "Ragnos-Crowned-Kun" retcon, as it stands now Ragnos was the one who effectively brought about the Great Sith War, which safely secured the future of the Sith, for Kun's Sith lived on even after their defeat, and allowed Revan's Sith to rise to power. If Ragnos had not done that, I doubt the Sith would have gained such power for a very long time, if ever.

I'm not sure how you figure that Ragnos brought about the Great Sith War. MY suggestion to you is, go back to whatever n00b forum you're from and argue nonsense there.

How old are you? No, seriously. You're acting like a 15-year-old backed up in a corner; I recognize I'm new here, but surely you know only a poor debater resorts to petty insults.. You are posting a fair bit of nonsense yourself (Hiding in the Force = creating wounds in the Force? Seriously?) and you don't seem to be even bothered in participating in this particular thread; you haven't even chosen a victor.

As for Ragnos, he made Kun and Qel-Droma cease fighting, crowned Kun as Dark Lord of the Sith and Qel-Droma as his apprentice, and told them to bring about the restoration of the Sith Golden Age. I'd say he had quite a role in bringing about the Great Sith War.

Now please calm down.

Hahaha if this isn't the pot calling the kettle black. I'm just doing exactly what you're doing, posting random bullshit and passing it off as fact. Oh wait, I have the DLOTS comics to back me up, as well as common EU knowledge.

Gotta love the desperation rebuttal. If I prove something wrong about your character, I must hate him! I get that from Obama supporters all the time.



Haha you go from "bringing about the sith war" to "having a role in it". Which one is it?

Originally posted by AncientSithLord
How old are you? No, seriously. You're acting like a 15-year-old backed up in a corner; I recognize I'm new here, but surely you know only a poor debater resorts to petty insults.. You are posting a fair bit of nonsense yourself (Hiding in the Force = creating wounds in the Force? Seriously?) and you don't seem to be even bothered in participating in this particular thread; you haven't even chosen a victor.

As for Ragnos, he made Kun and Qel-Droma cease fighting, crowned Kun as Dark Lord of the Sith and Qel-Droma as his apprentice, and told them to bring about the restoration of the Sith Golden Age. I'd say he had quite a role in bringing about the Great Sith War.

Now please calm down. Did you just confuse him with me?

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Hahaha if this isn't the pot calling the kettle black. I'm just doing exactly what you're doing, posting random bullshit and passing it off as fact. Oh wait, I have the DLOTS comics to back me up, as well as common EU knowledge.

Gotta love the desperation rebuttal. If I prove something wrong about your character, I must hate him! I get that from Obama supporters all the time.



Haha you go from "bringing about the sith war" to "having a role in it". Which one is it?

I stand corrected. Perhaps you do not hate Kreia. Regardless, my point still stands; let's actually debate who would be the likely victor between Hord and Ragnos, if we debate at all.

As for "bringing about the sith war" and "having a role in it..." Nitpicking words is also not a good case.

Lord_Lucien, I thought you and Dr McBeefington were one and the same?

Nitpicking? No, there's a difference and it makes your "argument" that much weaker. There's nothing to debate here. You haven't provided a single valid claim.

I'm pretty sure there isn't a difference.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Nitpicking? No, there's a difference and it makes your "argument" that much weaker. There's nothing to debate here. You haven't provided a single valid claim.

I haven't provided a single valid claim... about what exactly? We aren't even debating about a fight between Hord and Ragnos, we seem to be talking about Kreia and Ragnos' role in the Great Sith War. (And in my opinion that was not Ragnos - that was a pointless retcon which brought about more problems than solved them). Let's get on topic, shall we?

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm pretty sure there isn't a difference.

This is why you stay in the background.

I mean really, if you can't see a difference between "bringing about the sith war" and "I'd say he had quite a role in bringing about the Great Sith War", then you're a lost cause.

Originally posted by AncientSithLord
I haven't provided a single valid claim... about what exactly? We aren't even debating about a fight between Hord and Ragnos, we seem to be talking about Kreia and Ragnos' role in the Great Sith War. (And in my opinion that was not Ragnos - that was a pointless retcon which brought about more problems than solved them). Let's get on topic, shall we?

You brought up Ragnos' role in the sith war, nobody else. I'm not sure why Kreia was brought up, other than to glorify the ancient sith in regards to combat. There's nothing on "topic" here. We don't make threads with unknowns on this forum.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
You brought up Ragnos' role in the sith war, nobody else. I'm not sure why Kreia was brought up, other than to glorify the ancient sith in regards to combat. There's nothing on "topic" here. We don't make threads with unknowns on this forum.

I was responding to your comment that Ragnos did not accomplish anything of significance. I took it upon myself to correct you. I brought up Kreia since she is the main source as regards Tulak Hord's combat abilities, which is quite necessary if one wants to debate a fight between him and Ragnos. If you don't want to debate in this thread, then leave.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
This is why you stay in the background.

I mean really, if you can't see a difference between "bringing about the sith war" and "I'd say he had quite a role in bringing about the Great Sith War", then you're a lost cause.

Eh? I admit I haven't slept tonight, but I'm not too out of it that I would fail to notice a drastic difference in 'Started a war' and 'had quite a role in starting a war'. The second one is understated perhaps but that really does fall under the heading of 'bullshit, semantic nitpickery'.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Eh? I admit I haven't slept tonight, but I'm not too out of it that I would fail to notice a drastic difference in 'Started a war' and 'had quite a role in starting a war'. The second one is understated perhaps but that really does fall under the heading of 'bullshit, semantic nitpickery'.

Not in an argument. You don't go from the original premise of "starting a war" to "having quite a role in it". You call it nitpicking, I call it misrepresenting your own position.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Not in an argument. You don't go from the original premise of "starting a war" to "having quite a role in it". You call it nitpicking, I call it misrepresenting your own position.

Do note I said "effectively bringing about the Great Sith War..." That's quite different from "Marka Ragnos started the Great Sith War." You are nitpicking and twisting my statements. Thank you.

Originally posted by AncientSithLord
Do note I said "effectively bringing about the Great Sith War..." That's quite different from "Marka Ragnos started the Great Sith War." You are nitpicking and twisting my statements. Thank you.

Actually, I'm just responding to what DE wrote, ergo I'm not twisting your statements. And again, "effectively bringing about the Great Sith War" is not the same thing as "having quite a role". One puts him at center stage with THE ROLE, the other one gives him some part to play.

Jesus Christ! You insulted me becuase of a tiny little difference in tone?! Well, I'm sure someones going to get her diploma (you're still a lawyer, right?)

Originally posted by Nephthys
Jesus Christ! You insulted me becuase of a tiny little difference in tone?! Well, I'm sure someones going to get her diploma (you're still a lawyer, right?)

I think you may need to get some sleep, as you're becoming delusional.

At least I had the gall to insult you because of your incredibly small manhood.

Naw, I love you man.

Oh my god, this looks so familiar...

Why can't people just understand the meaning of 'unknown' and the rule that unknowns aren't allowed in versus threads.

AncientSithLord
We don't know much about either Tulak Hord or Marka Ragnos. Who cares? This is a forum for fights between various Star Wars characters.It's for discussion and debate about fights between various Star Wars character, neither of which is possible without information.

We really have no way to know for sure, but I'm gonna say Ragnos? Why, because I can.

maul takes it in sabers

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
maul takes it in sabers In that case...Bandon takes it in Force.

Did you guys miss this?



Quoted for profile.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien

Stay here another week or so. Eventually you'll see that we demand evidence for everything and the most logical conclusion just in case something's missing. This is that forum that will Ignore/Flame you for using your imagination. Empiricism FTW.

To be fair, even the most logical conclusions are usually ignored in absence of proof.

I'm going to say this: Almost everything Kreia says in that game is to lie and decieve: I simply don't believe her on Korriban.

Originally posted by truejedi
To be fair, even the most logical conclusions are usually ignored in absence of proof.

I'm going to say this: Almost everything Kreia says in that game is to lie and decieve: I simply don't believe her on Korriban. Yeah I know, sometimes we just throw out a conclusion that has no backing, but out of sheer frustration at least it makes some sort of sense.



Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Did you guys miss this?We're not that alike. For instance: I like apple pies and clear blue skies, breezy meadows in July. DS likes ice cream bars, and shooting stars, the sound of a steel guitar.

Originally posted by mattatom
In that case...Bandon takes it in Force.

In that case... Revan takes the All Out.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
In that case... Revan takes the All Out. B*stard I shoulda seen that coming.

Originally posted by mattatom
B*stard I shoulda seen that coming.

I like exclaiming the truth to all.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
In that case... Revan takes the All Out. Screw you, BANDON wins. Revan sucks dick.

up

Hord by hype should win

Ragnos in Tavion's body los a duel to a low-level Jedi like Jaden Kort. Event is he is twice as powerful or event more on his own body, that hardly places him above guys like Fiso. By powerscaling, Tulak shouldn't be better. Revan would stomp them both at once.