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After the fallout of the civil war the death of Captain america the formation of The Dark Avengers many villains have taken this as a time of opportunity to ape, murder pillage all things that Ares enjoys as much as any other Barbarian warrior of ages past..but in the modern World he is the peace Keeper who fights for those who would rob, murder and rape.. Ares sees no real difference only that now he fights those who are more like him and not as soft as the supposed heroes.

today Ares is send in to control a public protest and make sure it doesnt get out of hand... Ares tired of the few mutants whining and crying about equal rights decides to walk away and head to the local convenient store for a tall soothing cold Ale 40 oz Mickey...

while enjoying the refreshing drink he hears alarms and spots the Wrecking Crew Robbing the Bank across the street... finishing his drink he pulls his war axe from his back Holster and runs toward the team..

the wrecker and his Men busy loading their vehicle with stolen cash look up to see Ares the MotherF#$$ing God of War heading right for them..


ko,kill Cis on morality... start off at 50 ft...

1. Ares vs the wrecking team.

2. Ares vs the Wrecker solo.

Wrecking Crew absolutely demolishes Ares.

Originally posted by Starscream M
Wrecking Crew absolutely demolishes Ares.

They'd job to Ares. Hard.

Jobbers jobbing to a jobber?

Ares jobbing to Thor and Hercules isn't exactly jobbing.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
They'd job to Ares. Hard. not really. ares can't really hurt them.

^ hysterical

Ares wins. The Crew jobs more than he does.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ hysterical how will ares hurt them then?

^ By hurling foul language at them.

...

Or maybe by axing them in the face? sneer

Come on, Wrecker alone can take Ares down. The team is overkill.

^ Not really. At all. But you're entitled to your opinion.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Not really. At all. But you're entitled to your opinion. what has ares done to impress you so much?

^ Doesn't need to impress me that much because his opponents here are the Wrecking Crew. Thor has rapestomped the Wrecking Crew far worse than he ever did Ares.

Frankly, Thor doesn't fight to kill or maim, and Ares would have to be trying extremely hard in order not to kill or maim with his axe in a fight. And as you well know, Ares wouldn't be up for that.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Doesn't need to impress me that much because his opponents here are the Wrecking Crew. Thor has rapestomped the Wrecking Crew far worse than he ever did Ares.

Frankly, Thor doesn't fight to kill or maim, and Ares would have to be trying extremely hard in order not to kill or maim with his axe in a fight. And as you well know, Ares wouldn't be up for that. umm just one problem with your logic...ares is not thor, nor is he near thor.

ares uses a friggin gun to fight fer crying out loud. he doesn't have near the strength thor has nor the versatility. thor can wreck the wrecking crew...that has no bearing on how ares would do.

^ Ares doesn't need to be Thor or be near Thor to beat the Wrecking Crew. Reread what I said.

Ares has gone toe-to-toe with Hercules. Regardless, he doesn't need Hercules/Thor-level strength or Thor-level versatility to take the sharp end of his axe and sink it into his foes.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Ares doesn't need to be Thor or be near Thor to beat the Wrecking Crew. Reread what I said.

Ares has gone toe-to-toe with Hercules. Regardless, he doesn't need Hercules/Thor-level strength or Thor-level versatility to take the sharp end of his axe and sink it into his foes. don't the wrecking crew have incredible durability? I am skeptical of ares being able to inflict significant harm to them before he gets bashed to death.

The Crew has awesome durabilty I think.

^ Relatively, yes. Originally posted by Starscream M
don't the wrecking crew have incredible durability? I am skeptical of ares being able to inflict significant harm to them before he gets bashed to death. They have incredible durability that would not protect them from being royally f'ed up by Ares' axe. Your skepticism is noted.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Thor has rapestomped the Wrecking Crew far worse than he ever did Ares.

Oh?

^ Yeah?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Yeah?

and what time are you talking about?

^ When they hurt Hogun.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ When they hurt Hogun.

What issue was that? (as I don't have it actually)

but regardless that's not a good representation of how majority of their fights with Thor go. Wrecker alone has proven to be a match for Thor on multiple times (and Im not talking about when he was weakened)

ares is coming back with a major upgrade, hercules is coming back stronger than ever. just wait untill cho's run is over

Originally posted by -K-M-
What issue was that? (as I don't have it actually)

but regardless that's not a good representation of how majority of their fights with Thor go. Wrecker alone has proven to be a match for Thor on multiple times (and Im not talking about when he was weakened) Thor vol.2 #29.

Yes, because Thor perenially holds back against them (and treating them like mortals though they possess godly powers) until they draw his godly ire. When he takes the gloves off, the battle's over. Every time. And while I'm not suggesting that they don't have legitimate power, they don't use it effectively (relatively speaking).

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Thor has rapestomped the Wrecking Crew far worse than he ever did Ares.

No he hasn't.

Ares isn't solo'ing the Crew.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Thor vol.2 #29.

Yes, because Thor perenially holds back against them (and treating them like mortals though they possess godly powers) until they draw his godly ire. When he takes the gloves off, the battle's over. Every time. And while I'm not suggesting that they don't have legitimate power, they don't use it effectively (relatively speaking).

Except as noted when Thor was fighting Wrecker solo teams he wasn't holding back (as noted) as a persons life was in the balance (as he had to operate on someone) and had to rush to finish the fight. So no like I said one showing does not outway all their encounters.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Thor vol.2 #29.

Yes, because Thor perenially holds back against them (and treating them like mortals though they possess godly powers) until they draw his godly ire. When he takes the gloves off, the battle's over. Every time. And while I'm not suggesting that they don't have legitimate power, they don't use it effectively (relatively speaking).

Yup. When Thor has gotten angry he has literally beat the shit out of the Wrecking Crew. And here's the fight you guys are talking about.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/th_ThorvsWreckingCrew11.jpghttp://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/th_ThorvsWreckingCrew12.jpghttp://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/th_ThorvsWreckingCrew13.jpghttp://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/th_ThorvsWreckingCrew14.jpghttp://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/th_ThorvsWreckingCrew15.jpg

Originally posted by -K-M-
What issue was that? (as I don't have it actually)

but regardless that's not a good representation of how majority of their fights with Thor go. Wrecker alone has proven to be a match for Thor on multiple times (and Im not talking about when he was weakened)

When was this?

Off the top of my head Wrecker has fought Thor solo about 3 or 4 times. 2 of those he was severely weakened. The third fight which was in Thor Vol. 1 #171 as I recall, Wrecker said he was stronger than ever for some apparent reason and it was a stalemate but once again near the end Thor it was made painfully clear he was superior once Thor got truly mad. On top of everything, Thor was clearly holding back. Wrecker even comments on it. He might have been in his, "I can't harm a mortal phase" although I'm not too sure. The third fight was when Wrecker was significantly powered up by Captain Marvel as I recall. Wrecker was even looking a bit better in that fight, until of course Thor kicked it up a notch. He flipped him over, punched him back and removed their powers.

One on one ares IMO takes any single one of the wrecking crew...
But all four? That should give them a small majority 6/10...

Originally posted by rotiart
One on one ares IMO takes any single one of the wrecking crew...
But all four? That should give them a small majority 6/10...

I agree he can beat Thunderball, Bulldozer and Piledriver individually, but he ain't beating the Wrecker.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
When was this?

Off the top of my head Wrecker has fought Thor solo about 3 or 4 times. 2 of those he was severely weakened. The third fight which was in Thor Vol. 1 #171 as I recall, Wrecker said he was stronger than ever for some apparent reason and it was a stalemate but once Thor got serious as he realized he had a patient waiting it was made painfully clear he was superior. The third fight was when Wrecker was significantly powered up by Captain Marvel as I recall. Wrecker was even looking a bit better in that fight, until of course Thor kicked it up a notch. He flipped him over, punched him back and removed their powers.

Thor #171 is the time I'm refering too, and he was "Stronger" then ever because he knew how to use his powers now. He didn't get an upgrade. Thor was serious the whole fight and Thor also beat him because of the train track rails

Yes I know about the weakened fight, and referenced those were the fights I was talking about.

The Captain marvel reference Photon broke the circuit and overloaded the Crew then Thor assisted with Photon removing their power after they were weakened.

The other fight reference I was talking about was Thunderstrike #14 and he was batting him away without any trouble

^ Their fight in Thor #171 is explained below: Originally posted by -K-M-
Except as noted when Thor was fighting Wrecker solo teams he wasn't holding back (as noted) as a persons life was in the balance (as he had to operate on someone) and had to rush to finish the fight. So no like I said one showing does not outway all their encounters. No. He did hold back with his usual, "I dare not mortally harm mortals schtick." He even thinks as much in a thought bubble right towards the end of the fight. And that was pretty much Wrecker's best showing. Focusing on his patient rushed him sure, but if he was truly in a mad rush, he wouldn't have left the patient's side in the first place. It's a bit of a deflection from Thor's own thoughts on-panel.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No. He did hold back with his usual, "I dare not mortally harm mortals schtick." He even thinks as much in a thought bubble right towards the end of the fight. And that was pretty much Wrecker's best showing. Focusing on his patient rushed him sure, but if he was truly in a mad rush, he wouldn't have left the patient's side in the first place. It's a bit of a deflection from Thor's own thoughts on-panel.

Now where does he say that? Only real reference is he didn't want to harm mortals while Wrecker and him battled so they took it underground (*Thor makes a hole in the ground and they fall in with Wrecker mocking him as that wouldn't do any good* "My only purpose was to conclude our battle where those above would suffer no injury"". He later also talks about not wanting to kill Wrecker (as that is pretty much his only option at this point), and has to find another way to beat him, which wasn't about not hurting him . Even in the battle Thor admits Wrecker is just as strong as him and his equal multiple times: "'Tis true thy power doth seem the equal to mine"

No that isn't Wrecker's best feat as he has been upgraded many times since then. Ummm..he even comments he is in a mad rush to get back "Thor hath no time for idle threats! There be to much at stake", "There be no more time to bandy words! Not while he who is called Lopez now lies 'twixt life and death!", etc.

crew shitstomp

4 guys around ares level sounds like a win to me. thunderball or wrecker could just cheap shot him while he's occupied with the OTHER THREE

Originally posted by -K-M-
Thor #171 is the time I'm refering too, and he was "Stronger" then ever because he knew how to use his powers now. He didn't get an upgrade. Thor was serious the whole fight and Thor also beat him because of the train track rails

Yes I know about the weakened fight, and referenced those were the fights I was talking about.

The Captain marvel reference Photon broke the circuit and overloaded the Crew then Thor assisted with Photon removing their power after they were weakened.

The other fight reference I was talking about was Thunderstrike #14 and he was batting him away without any trouble

Really? Based on what? He clearly says his stronger and smarter now. Not "I'm more experienced now". They never showed him getting an amp which is why I found it strange but hey, it was the Silver Age. If you have evidence to support your case I will concede.

I didn't mean to say he was taking the fight as joke or anything, just a reference to how he realized that time was truly precious. Right before that it was made clear Thor could kick it up a notch. Wrecker was even in disbelieve about how he was able to hold down his crowbar with one arm. And he was obviously keeping himself in check in that fight. Wrecker even comments on Thor being scared of using Mjolnir on him. It's weird, Thor says the Wrecker equaled him in strength but whatever. Thor is always able to kick it up a notch. Hercules can vouch for that.

Okay.

True enough. Should be noted that even when she overloads them, they were standing their smiling as they glowed with power. And Thor tossed off Wrecker before she even does that.

You mean the fight when Wrecker was being amped and re-energized by an outside power source from a different dimension? If that's the fight your talking about then your making it seem like Thor was some kind of joke. At first when Thor flies in Wrecker hits Thor in the face knocking him down. Later on, Thor knocks the crow bar out of his hands and buts Wrecker on his ass. Wrecker then calls his crowbar and knocks Thor into a lamp. Thor gets up as Wrecker turns away commenting on how he only knocked him down.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Now where does he say that? Only real reference is he didn't want to harm mortals while Wrecker and him battled so they took it underground (*Thor makes a hole in the ground and they fall in with Wrecker mocking him as that wouldn't do any good* "My only purpose was to conclude our battle where those above would suffer no injury"". He later also talks about not wanting to kill Wrecker (as that is pretty much his only option at this point), and has to find another way to beat him not about hurting him. Even in the battle Thor admits Wrecker is just as strong as him and his equal (multiple times)

No that isn't Wrecker's best feat as he has been upgraded many times since then. Ummm..he even comments he is in a mad rush to get back "Thor hath no time for idle threats! There be to much at stake", "There be no more time to bandy words! Not while he who is called Lopez now lies 'twixt life and death!", etc. That's it. The underlined part. He was contrasting how Wrecker lashes out in a blind rage, but he himself swore an oath to take no lives.

As you should be well aware from reading Thor, he takes punishment and bides his time looking for ways to defeat his foes without mortally harming them. And as you clearly recognized, he was short on time and Wrecker was berserking. Thor couldn't stop him in such short order without killing him. Which is why when he realized he could use the third railing + Mjolnir's magic, he immediately turned the battle around by stopping his crowbar with a single hand (much to Wrecker's amazement), flipping him over and disenchanting him. He held back during the fight.

Rushed, but not" madly" rushed. He had 15 minutes to investigate why the building was originally shaking as stated on-panel. Had he been so absolutely rushed that it would have cost the hospital patient his life, he would have killed the Wrecker because he had no choice. Thor's killed his opponents before when he's had no choice. As it stands, he had enough time to tussle with him for a bit while holding back to (i) try to talk sense into him and/or (ii) figure out how to stop him without killing him. He held back.

Just because Thor can ragestomp Wrecker who he's become more used to fighting over the years, doesn't mean Wrecker can't be nearly as powerful as him. Like I said, this doesn't diminish the Wrecker's power, but he can't apply it effectively (relatively speaking).

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Really? Based on what? He clearly says his stronger and smarter now. Not "I'm more experienced now". They never showed him getting an amp which is why I found it strange but hey, it was the Silver Age. If you have evidence to support your case I will concede.

Because he was in prison the whole time and no where was it said or shown he got powered up other then being smarter. Which as shown when Ulik trained him made him more powerful

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I didn't mean to say he was taking the fight as joke or anything, just a reference to how he realized that time was truly precious. Right before that it was made clear Thor could kick it up a notch. Wrecker was even in disbelieve about how he was able to hold down his crowbar with one arm. And he was obviously keeping himself in check in that fight. Wrecker even comments on Thor being scared of using Mjolnir on him. It's weird, Thor says the Wrecker equaled him in strength but whatever. Thor is always able to kick it up a notch. Hercules can vouch for that.

Right from the very start he said his time was precious and tried to take out Wrecker early...and he failed. Where did it say or show Thor could kick it up a notch? He was holding his crowbar back with his hammer. Also no he wasn't keeping himself in check as nor where was that stated, and Thor did state multiple times Wrecker was his equal and wanted to end it quick to save the life..but couldn't. So can Wrecker though.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
True enough. Should be noted that even when she overloads them, they were standing their smiling as they glowed with power. And Thor tossed off Wrecker before she even does that.

Ummm...no they wern't. They were screaming in pain. I suggest you reread it.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You mean the fight when Wrecker was being amped and re-energized by an outside power source from a different dimension? If that's the fight your talking about then your making it seem like Thor was some kind of joke. At first when Thor flies in Wrecker hits Thor in the face knocking him down. Later on, Thor knocks the crow bar out of his hands and buts Wrecker on his ass. Wrecker then calls his crowbar and knocks Thor into a lamp. Thor gets up as Wrecker turns away commenting on how he only knocked him down.

He kepted that upgrade as the rest of the Crew were banished to that dimension and came back stronger. Look at the Thunderball vs. Alpha Flight fight. That's one of the powerups I was talking about...and they kepted that.

and Wrecker didn't want to fight Thor, but Thor kepted trying to fight him and he was merely just pestering him. Also Thor put him on his ass? you mean one knee which didn't phase him and then he literally put Thor on his ass a second later?

For reference, here's the fight from my Revamped Thor Respect Thread: Originally posted by OneDumbG0
=======
Wrecker
=======

Thor vs Wrecker again, from Thor #171:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsWrecker14Thor171.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsWrecker15.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsWrecker16.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsWrecker17.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsWrecker18.jpg

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
That's it. The underlined part. He was contrasting how Wrecker lashes out in a blind rage, but he himself swore an oath to take no lives.

As you should be well aware from reading Thor, he takes punishment and bides his time looking for ways to defeat his foes without harming them. And as you clearly recognized, he was short on time and Wrecker was berserking. Thor couldn't stop him in such short order without killing him. Which is why when he realized he could use the third railing + Mjolnir's magic, he immediately turned the battle around by stopping his crowbar with a single hand, flipping him over and disenchanting him. He held back during the fight.

Yes, but he had 15 minutes to investigate why the building was originally shaking as stated on-panel. Had he been so absolutely rushed that it would have cost the hospital patient his life, he would have killed the Wrecker because he had no choice. As it stands, he had enough time to tussle with him for a bit while holding back to (i) try to talk sense into him and/or (ii) figure out how to stop him without killing him. He held back.

Just because Thor can ragestomp Wrecker who he's become more used to fighting over the years, doesn't mean Wrecker can't be nearly as powerful as him. Like I said, this doesn't diminish the Wrecker's power, but he can't apply it effectively (relatively speaking).

Read the whole thing as noted that's the only option he was left too and didn't want to do it.

That's nice, but Thor even admitted Wrecker was his equal. No he wasn't holding back his power in the fight, he just didn't want to kill Wrecker and he wasn't even close to coming even to that point as Wrecker already took Thor's blows before when he wanted it to end quick and it literally didn't phase him.

That's nice, but once again Thor admitted Wrecker was his equal in strength and tried right off the bat to take him down and failed.

Why? Wrecker has fought Thor to a standstill before on other occasions.

Also that's just one member of the Crew, what's to stop Thunderball from stealing Ares strength?

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd199/MachineMan616/Avengers-Unplugged04-11.jpg*

*That's mortal Hercules

^ Do the Wrecking Crew get a little girl in danger to distract Ares during battle? If so, then it's possible (though Ares isn't as much a softy as Herc).Originally posted by -K-M-
Read the whole thing as noted that's the only option he was left too and didn't want to do it.

That's nice, but Thor even admitted Wrecker was his equal. No he wasn't holding back his power in the fight, he just didn't want to kill Wrecker and he wasn't even close to coming even to that point as Wrecker already took Thor's blows before when he wanted it to end quick and it literally didn't phase him.

That's nice, but once again Thor admitted Wrecker was his equal in strength and tried right off the bat to take him down and failed.

Why? Wrecker has fought Thor to a standstill before on other occasions. I did read the whole thing. I also posted it. And Thor held back. He was running out of time and if pressed, he could stop holding back and just outright kill him as he has done to other poor foes in the past. But in this case, Thor refused to unleash himself until there was absolutely no choice. Luckily, Thor found that choice when he realized he could disenchant him.

Wrecker's power seems to be nearly equal to his own. He's admitted that plenty of times. It doesn't stop Thor from ragestomping him quickly because Thor is an exponentially more skilled fighter and can apply his power far more effectively. Thor did hold back. You can ignore that as much as you like, but it's a running theme in all their fights.

Being nearly equal in strength doesn't prevent Thor from ragestomping him. Thor's got two distinct advantages that allows him to do so, should he decide not to hold back. And this occurs with greater frequency the more they fight.

Wrecker has fought Thor to a standstill before when Thor's held back.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I did read the whole thing. I also posted it. And Thor held back. He was running out of time and if pressed, he could stop holding back and just outright kill him as he has done to other poor foes in the past. But in this case, Thor refused to unleash himself until there was absolutely no choice. Luckily, Thor found that choice when he realized he could disenchant him.

Wrecker's power seems to be nearly equal to his own. He's admitted that plenty of times. It doesn't stop Thor from ragestomping him quickly because Thor is an exponentially more skilled fighter and can apply his power far more effectively. Thor did hold back. You can ignore that as much as you like, but it's a running theme in all their fights.

Being nearly equal in strength doesn't prevent Thor from ragestomping him. Thor's got two distinct advantages that allows him to do so, should he decide not to hold back. And this occurs with greater frequency the more they fight.

Wrecker has fought Thor to a standstill before when Thor's held back.

Except no where was it said he held back his power...nope nope nope. He didn't want to kill Wrecker and only said that in the subway while prior Thor tried to take Wrecker out quick...and he failed. He didn't even phase Wrecker with his "brute-blitz". He wasn't even close to killing Wrecker and thus far didn't have any real advantage over Wrecker. To say he could easily kill him is silly.

Except when Thor beat Wrecker at that time as noted he was weakened as he was power-sharing with the Crew reducing his power. It was only until his training with Ulik that changed. It's a running theme in all their fights? Endulge me where in all their fights does Thor say he holds back? The one time where he sneak attacked them in the pool and were severely damaged from taking the lightening attack (in the pool) when they wern't expecting it?

Except he didn't...as shown.

haha no.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Do the Wrecking Crew get a little girl in danger to distract Ares during battle?

What? He wasn't even fighting the whole crew just Bulldozer and Piledriver and he actually sneak attacked them first. Then Thunderball came out of nowhere and did that attack. I was posting that scan to show he can sap his strength, which he showed he can.

Also T-Ball's wrecking ball has easily caught Spider-Man (Wrapped him up) so is it really unlikely he wouldn't catch the much slower Ares?

KM ftown.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
KM ftown.

I don't even know what that means

Originally posted by -K-M-
Because he was in prison the whole time and no where was it said or shown he got powered up other then being smarter. Which as shown when Ulik trained him made him more powerful

But he clearly says he was stronger and smarter. Ulik's training made him more versatile sure, but it never increased his strength. It allowed him to apply his raw power to different aspects such as teleportation etc.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Right from the very start he said his time was precious and tried to take out Wrecker early...and he failed. Where did it say or show Thor could kick it up a notch? He was holding his crowbar back with his hammer. Also no he wasn't keeping himself in check as nor where was that stated, and Thor did state multiple times Wrecker was his equal and wanted to end it quick to save the life..but couldn't. So can Wrecker though.

It was near the end that he comments on how time was nearly out so he kicked it up a notch. He held back his crowbar with a single arm and even Wrecker exclaims disbelief at it. What do you think that was intended to imply? He tried to flip him over and he hit Wrecker try to get him to leave, and the Wrecker trips him. That's the extent of his attacks against the Wrecker. The entire time it seemed as if Thor tried to find an alternative way to defeat the Wrecker without killing him. It was near the end when he had no choice that he kicked it up a notch and luckily found an alternative way. The subway rail. Of course he held himself in check. Wrecker even comments on him afraid on using Mjolnir on him and Thor expresses fear of killing him. He said his power equaled him once. Yes, he tried his best to end it without resorting to putting Wrecker down permanently. Really?

Originally posted by -K-M-
Ummm...no they wern't. They were screaming in pain. I suggest you reread it.

Where does it say that? I'm pretty sure Piledriver was smiling when it happened. Lol.

Originally posted by -K-M-
He kepted that upgrade as the rest of the Crew were banished to that dimension and came back stronger. Look at the Thunderball vs. Alpha Flight fight. That's one of the powerups I was talking about...and they kepted that.

Okay then.

Originally posted by -K-M-
and Wrecker didn't want to fight Thor, but Thor kepted trying to fight him and he was merely just pestering him. Also Thor put him on his ass? you mean one knee which didn't phase him and then he literally put Thor on his ass a second later?



He didn't initially want to fight Thor but once Thor was there he even states that first he wants to beat Thor and then take it to his father. Don't act as if Thor was some annoyance. I'll give you that. The Wrecker was on one knee when we saw him again. I just recalled him having his crowbar knocked out of his hands and Thor knocking him backwards and I believe we saw a foot or both in the air. Describe phase. Thor was not hurt either. Just knocked off his feet.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Except no where was it said he held back his power...nope nope nope. He didn't want to kill Wrecker and only said that in the subway while prior Thor tried to take Wrecker out quick...and he failed. He didn't even phase Wrecker with his "brute-blitz". He wasn't even close to killing Wrecker and thus far didn't have any real advantage over Wrecker. To say he could easily kill him is silly.

Except when Thor beat Wrecker at that time as noted he was weakened as he was power-sharing with the Crew reducing his power. It was only until his training with Ulik that changed. It's a running theme in all their fights? Endulge me where in all their fights does Thor say he holds back? The one time where he sneak attacked them in the pool and were severely damaged from taking the lightening attack (in the pool) when they wern't expecting it?

Except he didn't...as shown.

haha no. Your justifications for ignoring Thor's own words and every single one of their other fights are exceptionally weak. Thor states he is sworn to kill nobody (even one such as Wrecker). That necessarily suggests that killing him is an option, if he allowed himself to. Ergo, if killing him is an option, then "something" has to change in the fight for Thor to do so, because he wasn't coming even close to killing him at that point.

What would be that "something" that has to change? It's painfully obvious: Thor would have to unleash his full might, (or spoken in a negative manner), he would have to stop holding back his full might. And on Thor holding back in all their fights? I'd rather not waste my time finding each piece of verbiage as you should be damn well aware they're there if you've read them all.

He didn't ragestomp Wrecker in their second canon fight in Thor #171 (the one we're discussing) because he held back.

You're well-read enough such that I cannot chalk your arguments up to innocent ignorance. You're reaching. And whatever motive you have for it doesn't justify your arbitrary dismissal of the clear truth that is reinforced on-panel: Thor holds back against the Wrecking Crew until they piss him off royally. Then follows the ragestomp.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
But he clearly says he was stronger and smarter. Ulik's training made him more versatile sure, but it never increased his strength. It allowed him to apply his raw power to different aspects such as teleportation etc.

Because he learned how to use his powers more, just like when Ulik taught him. Literally the exact same thing. Also no it gave him more strength too as he noted to Thunderball later on.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It was near the end that he comments on how time was nearly out so he kicked it up a notch. He held back his crowbar with a single arm and even Wrecker exclaims disbelief at it. What do you think that was intended to imply? He tried to flip him over and he hit Wrecker try to get him to leave, and the Wrecker trips him. That's the extent of his attacks against the Wrecker. The entire time it seemed as if Thor tried to find an alternative way to defeat the Wrecker without killing him. It was near the end when he had no choice that he kicked it up a notch and luckily found an alternative way. The subway rail. Of course he held himself in check. Wrecker even comments on him afraid on using Mjolnir on him and Thor expresses fear of killing him. He said his power equaled him once. Yes, he tried his best to end it without resorting to putting Wrecker down permanently. Really?

Yeah and? Spider-Man has done the same thing to stronger people and over-powered them (Spider-Man has even beat Thor). What else was it really implying? This isn't something rare, other people have done it with other characters and really isn't that incredible in the long run. Except as noted he tried to "brute blitz" him and failed as he wanted to end it quick. Why are you guys merely just ignoring that detail? It's like I'm hearing an echo.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Where does it say that? I'm pretty sure Piledriver was smiling when it happened. Lol.

Not stated..shown and no he wasn't smiling.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus


He didn't initially want to fight Thor but once Thor was there he even states that first he wants to beat Thor and then take it to his father. Don't act as if Thor was some annoyance. I'll give you that. The Wrecker was on one knee when we saw him again. I just recalled him having his crowbar knocked out of his hands and Thor knocking him backwards and I believe we saw a foot or both in the air. Describe phase. Thor was not hurt either. Just knocked off his feet.

He was an annoyance as after Thor sneak attacked him he hit Thor to the ground and began to walk away. Thor threw his hammer into Wreckers back breifly clashed Thor knocked out his crowbar and then he grabbed it back and laid Thor to the ground and once again began to walk away "Get lost Blondie! I've got other fish to fry"

Indeed, but shows Wrecker can take Thor's blows and literally shrug them off. So to say Ares is going to take out him and the Crew easily? Not going to happen.

Originally posted by -K-M-
I don't even know what that means looks like for the own.

that goes for mungi and the crew

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Your justifications for ignoring Thor's own words and every single one of their other fights are exceptionally weak. Thor states he is sworn to kill nobody (even one such as Wrecker). That necessarily suggests that killing him is an option, if he allowed himself to. Ergo, if killing him is an option, then "something" has to change in the fight for Thor to do so, because he wasn't coming even close to killing him at that point.

What would be that "something" that has to change? It's painfully obvious: Thor would have to unleash his full might, (or spoken in a negative manner), he would have to stop holding back his full might. And on Thor holding back in all their fights? I'd rather not waste my time finding each piece of verbiage as you should be damn well aware they're there if you've read them all.

He didn't ragestomp Wrecker in their second canon fight in Thor #171 (the one we're discussing) because he held back.

You're well-read enough such that I cannot chalk your arguments up to innocent ignorance. You're reaching. And whatever motive you have for it doesn't justify your arbitrary dismissal of the clear truth that is reinforced on-panel: Thor holds back against the Wrecking Crew until they piss him off royally. Then follows the ragestomp.

Thor's own words have said Wrecker' is his equal, and that was from a Thor who was serious. So you will accept one but not the other? Oh right he said he could kill them when he sneak attacked the Crew and this is when they first got their powers back and before their further upgrades? Sooo..point?

I have read them and no he doesn't say he constantly holds back in all his fights with the Crew. Also as I mentioned he even beat the Crew when they were significantly weaker.

No he didn't, he said he didn't want to kill as he doesn't want to kill anyone. So does that mean Thor holdsback against everyone now? No. The one way he could win as noted was to kill Wrecker as he said, but even in the fight Thor wasn't even close to doing it.

Not reaching this is fact, and in countless times they have shown to be close in power and have stalemated before. The only other time when he ragestomped them was in Thor #304 , but that of course was a weaker Crew. So point?

Originally posted by -K-M-
Because he learned how to use his powers more, just like when Ulik taught him. Literally the exact same thing. Also no it gave him more strength too as he noted to Thunderball later on.

And that made him stronger? Fine, but for whatever reason he stated he was stronger than before. Okay.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Yeah and? Spider-Man has done the same thing to stronger people and over-powered them (Spider-Man has even beat Thor). What else was it really implying? This isn't something rare, other people have done it with other characters and really isn't that incredible in the long run. Except as noted he tried to "brute blitz" him and failed as he wanted to end it quick. Why are you guys merely just ignoring that detail? It's like I'm hearing an echo.

"Yeah and?" What do you think it was supposed to show? Thor sees that there might not be any other option, so he grabs Wrecker and jumps off the train with him against his will. He then holds back his bar with one arm to his disbelief. What do you think this was intended to show besides Thor being able to kick it up a notch? Honestly, your ignoring something that's pretty damn obvious. That's nice for Spider-Man. His done some impressive feats when going all out. How does this affect or change what we are talking about at all? You mean during the Infinity Crusade, where Invisible Woman, Thor and the rest attack him and somehow knock themselves out? Okay and that changes what happened here how? Brute blitz? You mean him flipping Wrecker over, then punching him and telling him to begone? Who's ignoring it?

Originally posted by -K-M-
Not stated..shown and no he wasn't smiling.

Then we have different interpretations. They did not seem to be in pain to me. Wrecker was even standing over Thor about to hit him and he was even talking just fine.

Originally posted by -K-M-
He was an annoyance as after Thor sneak attacked him he hit Thor to the ground and began to walk away. Thor threw his hammer into Wreckers back breifly clashed Thor knocked out his crowbar and then he grabbed it back and laid Thor to the ground and once again began to walk away "Get lost Blondie! I've got other fish to fry"

Lol. Sneak attack? Thor flew at him and even calls him out. As a matter of fact, he doesn't even hit him first. Wrecker hits Thor while his in the air and knocks him down. A sneak attack is what happened in Thor #171 when Wrecker jumps from behind and gets him in something akin to a bear hug. That fight was a basic stalemate. Thor and Wrecker each hurt each other once and knock each other down once. Wrecker wanted to put Thor on his ass and move on. That's all. Don't act as if Thor was not even an obstacle.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Indeed, but shows Wrecker can take Thor's blows and literally shrug them off. So to say Ares is going to take out him and the Crew easily? Not going to happen.

Describe shrug off. Just because we didn't hear him yell out doesn't mean he wasn't phased or anything. Thor knocked the crowbar down and knocked him back. They even thought Thor was going in for the kill but unfortunately that energy re-energized him, and he absorbed it, putting him back into the game.

I don't doubt that Ares would own the utter shit out of the Crew if they fought recently.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Thor's own words have said Wrecker' is his equal, and that was from a Thor who was serious. So you will accept one but not the other? Oh right he said he could kill them when he sneak attacked the Crew and this is when they first got their powers back and before their further upgrades? Sooo..point?

I have read them and no he doesn't say he constantly holds back in all his fights with the Crew. Also as I mentioned he even beat the Crew when they were significantly weaker.

No he didn't, he said he didn't want to kill as he doesn't want to kill anyone. So does that mean Thor holdsback against everyone now? No. The one way he could win as noted was to kill Wrecker as he said, but even in the fight Thor wasn't even close to doing it.

Not reaching this is fact, and in countless times they have shown to be close in power and have stalemated before. The only other time when he ragestomped them was in Thor #304 , but that of course was a weaker Crew. So point? Being nearly peers in strength and power doesn't mean Thor can't ragestomp Wrecker or the entire Wrecking Crew. Your obstinancy would be admirable if Thor hadn't already ragestomped the entire Wrecking Crew on-panel.

Yes. Thor holds back against the Wrecking Crew. Anybody who's read their fights and ignores that is nothing short of ignorant.

YES. Thor holds back against ALL his mortal foes. And he has ALWAYS treated the Wrecking Crew that way. If you don't even know this simple immutable fact about Thor, then you're not as well-read as I had assumed. Thor had a choice to kill Wrecker. He chooses not to. But his choosing not to break his oath PRESUPPOSES that he has the choice. And that choice is predicated on something changing with Thor, i.e., not holding back anymore. Don't be dense.

Thor has plenty of opponents who possess peer-like power. But against ineffectatious blokes like the Wrecking Crew, such power doesn't save them from getting ragestomped.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
And that made him stronger? Fine, but for whatever reason he stated he was stronger than before. Okay.

Because he learned more about his powers. Not hard to grasp. Echo echo echo



Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
"Yeah and?" What do you think it was supposed to show? Thor sees that there might not be any other option, so he grabs Wrecker and jumps off the train with him against his will. He then holds back his bar with one arm to his disbelief. What do you think this was intended to show besides Thor being able to kick it up a notch? Honestly, your ignoring something that's pretty damn obvious. That's nice for Spider-Man. His done some impressive feats when going all out. How does this affect or change what we are talking about at all? You mean during the Infinity Crusade, where Invisible Woman, Thor and the rest attack him and somehow knock themselves out? Okay and that changes what happened here how? Brute blitz? You mean him flipping Wrecker over, then punching him and telling him to begone? Who's ignoring it?

Ummm...your the one saying that shows him clearly becoming stronger when other people even with stronger oppoents have done the same thing. It's really not that special or unique. haha your telling me I'm ignoring the obvious? Lulz, this has happened before with weaker people doing it against stronger people, and prior Thor directly said Wrecker was his equal and tried...literally tried to take Wrecker out quick and easy but couldn't and wasn't even close to doing it. Im talking about the brute blitz before the subway scene, the scene where he specifically says Wrecker is his equal. Echo echo echo.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Then we have different interpretations. They did not seem to be in pain to me. Wrecker was even standing over Thor about to hit him and he was even talking just fine.

about to hit him? He was screaming same with Piledriver as you can literally see their power escaping them. No way could even even come close to saying there were smiling All he said was "Hey what're you--?" (and the speech bubble was in jagged like something was up and screaming) and then you can see lightening coming out from them

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Lol. Sneak attack? Thor flew at him and even calls him out. As a matter of fact, he doesn't even hit him first. Wrecker hits Thor while his in the air and knocks him down. A sneak attack is what happened in Thor #171 when Wrecker jumps from behind and gets him in something akin to a bear hug. That fight was a basic stalemate. Thor and Wrecker each hurt each other once and knock each other down once. Wrecker wanted to put Thor on his ass and move on. That's all. Don't act as if Thor was not even an obstacle.

Sorry I'm talking about several Thor vs. Wrecker fights and getting cross-channeled. That comment was for Thor vol.2 fight. Yes, it definetly was but a bear hug isn't as bad as other other attacks both of them could do *shrugs*.

He even said he wasn't an obstacle and didn't want to fight him as he said had bigger fish to fry and walked off. haha that's said directly and shown in the comic itself. He wanted to move on after the first blow and moved on after the last....shown and stated. Echo echo echo.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Describe shrug off. Just because we didn't hear him yell out doesn't mean he wasn't phased or anything. Thor knocked the crowbar down and knocked him back. They even thought Thor was going in for the kill but unfortunately that energy re-energized him, and he absorbed it, putting him back into the game.

I don't doubt that Ares would own the utter shit out of the Crew if they fought recently.

No physical damage, no period on the ground for any extended period, no blood, and immedately recovered and hit him with a blow that hit him to the ground. No that's a very good indication he WASN'T phased. Yeah and? Prior he took a hammer throw to the spine from behind and was fine

If the Bendis Crew then yes, but that falls under PIS and CIS as blows (not claw attacks) have made members of the crew spit out blood. Yet recently they did better against Savage Hulk then Thor did.

I gotta go. I was just waiting for you reply so I could read it. I'll finish this tomorrow, but LOL at you referencing the new Hulk one shot. Haha. I'm going to bed smiling.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Being nearly peers in strength and power doesn't mean Thor can't ragestomp Wrecker or the entire Wrecking Crew. Your obstinancy would be admirable if Thor hadn't already ragestomped the entire Wrecking Crew on-panel.

Yes. Thor holds back against the Wrecking Crew. Anybody who's read their fights and ignores that is nothing short of ignorant.

YES. Thor holds back against ALL his mortal foes. And he has ALWAYS treated the Wrecking Crew that way. If you don't even know this simple immutable fact about Thor, then you're not as well-read as I had assumed. Thor had a choice to kill Wrecker. He chooses not to. But his choosing not to break his oath PRESUPPOSES that he has the choice. And that choice is predicated on something changing with Thor, i.e., not holding back anymore. Don't be dense.

Thor has plenty of opponents who possess peer-like power. But against ineffectatious blokes like the Wrecking Crew, such power doesn't save them from getting ragestomped.

Ok? Based on? especially when you were using examples were the Crew was significantly weaker and before their upgrades. Wrecker alone has shown to be a match for Thor (and no I DO NOT think he can beat Thor) on multple occasions and factoring in the other Crew...Ares is not stomping anything.

Ok, please show me these quotes then with the Crew. Show me what I'm ignoring.

Has he now? Because he has said otherwise. So what do we take for face value then? Hmmm.... Also Thor had a chance to kill Wrecker? haha when? Seriously when did Thor have the upperhand in the fight before the rail track part? Seriously....are you ok? You may be sleepy. Not dense this is stated and shown, which you clearly don't like but not suprized.

Lulz, yet he really only has steamrolled them two times. One when they were significantly weaker before their countless upgrades, and other time when he sneak attacked them and they just got their powers back and before more of their upgrades. Also the Crew have powers and abilities themselves, their not just brutes.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I gotta go. I was just waiting for you reply so I could read it. I'll finish this tomorrow, but LOL at you referencing the new Hulk one shot. Haha. I'm going to bed smiling.

I think it's garbage myself, and down right outrageous they did that to him and having the battle just 3 pages? Bullcrap.

Nite.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Ok? Based on? especially when you were using examples were the Crew was significantly weaker and before their upgrades. Wrecker alone has shown to be a match for Thor (and no I DO NOT think he can beat Thor) on multple occasions and factoring in the other Crew...Ares is not stomping anything.

Ok, please show me these quotes then with the Crew. Show me what I'm ignoring.

Has he now? Because he has said otherwise. So what do we take for face value then? Hmmm.... Also Thor had a chance to kill Wrecker? haha when? Seriously when did Thor have the upperhand in the fight before the rail track part? Seriously....are you ok? You may be sleepy. Not dense this is stated and shown, which you clearly don't like but not suprized.

Lulz, yet he really only has steamrolled them two times. One when they were significantly weaker before their countless upgrades, and other time when he sneak attacked them and they just got their powers back and before more of their upgrades. Also the Crew have powers and abilities themselves, their not just brutes. Significantly weaker because of which upgrades exactly? Issue #'s, if not scans. I'm aware of how you interpret several of them, but I don't want to be accused of putting words into your mouth. Lay em out and we'll discuss them here and now (or tomorrow) and let's see how much they change things from what has perenially happened on-panel.

If you can't even help but recognize the first one that occurs in their second canon fight, I find your request to be rather dubious. Further elaborated below.

You're suggesting that Thor has said that he doesn't restrain his might while on Earth? Tell me you're joking. Thor had the choice to kill Wrecker in their fight in Thor #171. And he literally stated "But I am sworn to take no life ... not even such as his! I must find another way ... and by the Golden Gates ... I shall!" And guess what? By the Golden Gates, he did find another way. He literally refused to unleash his might on him and kill him. What aren't you getting:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorRestraint00a171.jpg

Let's discuss these countless upgrades that make everything so much more different now. You and I. Right now. Issue #'s, if not scans.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Significantly weaker because of which upgrades exactly? Issue #'s, if not scans. I'm aware of how you reference several of them, but lay it out and we'll discuss them here and now (or tomorrow).

-Ulik training (Thor #418 )
-Energy Absorption-Avengers #16 :
-Dimensional Interface (Thor #171-Wrecker, Alpha Flight #119-Crew)
-Tanaraq upgrade (Omega Flight #3-Lost this)

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If you can't even help but recognize the first one that occurs in their second canon fight, I find your request to be rather dubious. Further elaborated below.

Thor #171 isn't their second canon fight. 1st was Thor #148 and the second was Thor #149. Show me where he says in each of their fights he holds back as you claim?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You're suggesting that Thor has said that he doesn't restrain his might while on Earth? Tell me you're joking. Thor had the choice to kill Wrecker in their fight in Thor #171. And he literally stated "But I am sworn to take no life ... not even such as his! I must find another way ... and by the Golden Gates ... I shall!" And guess what? By the Golden Gates, he did find another way. He literally refused to unleash his might on him end kill him. What aren't you getting:

haha wow because he said he swore he won't kill means he was close to killing Wrecker? lulz, and I'm being the unreasonable one here? Silly me. Show me where Thor ANYWHERE in the fight even came close to killing Wrecker or even beating him. Hell I'll even accept a scan of Thor making Wrecker bleed and as you say he could have killed him there must be the scan right? No? Oh, then why are you making that claim? Wrecker says he can kill Thor in other apperances do we take that as face value? No, as he has never came close to killing Thor (Sans the weakened fight), as actions speak louder then words and not once in that fight did Thor even come close to killing Wrecker in the least.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorRestraint00a171.jpg

Yeah and? So that means we have never seen Thor's full power as he doesn't always go for the kill shot? Hmmmm...interesting.

but...but...but what about the scene prior Thor even admits Wrecker is just as strong as him and tried to take Wrecker out quick and easy and failed...so we will accept one comment but ignore the other? Interesting.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd199/MachineMan616/Thor171-14.jpg

maybe thor was trying to butter him up with that compliment, wrecker isn't that smart.

abd seriously, he isn't thor's equal though, that is pretty evident in the grand scheme of things.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
maybe thor was trying to butter him up with that compliment, wrecker isn't that smart.

abd seriously, he isn't thor's equal though, that is pretty evident in the grand scheme of things.

Heh! but no.

Ideally no I wouldn't say so either (sans Tanaraq upgrade or some outrageous energy boost). My point is if he can give a fight to Thor in multiple occasions why would Ares stomp him and the Crew?

Originally posted by -K-M-
Heh! but no.

Ideally no I wouldn't say so either (sans Tanaraq upgrade or absorb lots amount of energy). My point is if he can give a fight to Thor in multiple occasions why would Ares stomp him and the Crew?
a sharp axe and completely different mindset and morality, i would imagine would make the difference.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
a sharp axe and completely different mindset and morality, i would imagine would make the difference.

You can literally say the same thing about the Crew and their weapons. If we want to become specific Ikaris one-shotted Ares.

http://i36.tinypic.com/2qb9amg.jpg

Originally posted by -K-M-
-Ulik training (Thor #418 )
-Energy Absorption-Avengers #16 :
-Dimensional Interface (Thor #171-Wrecker, Alpha Flight #119-Crew)
-Tanaraq upgrade (Omega Flight #3-Lost this)Let's take these in chronological order:

1) The Ulik training from Thor #418 is valid because they learned new abilities and have demonstrated their use thereafter. But the bottom-line is, it still didn't stop Thor from ragestomping them thereafter.

2) Dimensional Interface from Thunderstrike #14 (which you likely meant) and Alpha Flight #119 is invalid because apparently you think those comics suggested that Wrecker found a way to amp himself with energies from the dimension Loki banished him to. And thereafter, you apparently believe Thunderball found a way for all four members to amp themselves through those dimensional energies.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/More%20Random/th_WreckingCrew00Thunderstrike14.jpg http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/More%20Random/th_WreckingCrew00a.jpg http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/More%20Random/th_WreckingCrew02.jpg

Both premises are false: (i) Wrecker may have been aware of why he was being amped in the first scan, but he never managed to control and harness that ability as shown in the second scan; and (ii) Thunderball only found a way to redistribute the energies they shared freely without relying on Wrecker. He never found a way to harness those interdimensional energies with his trans-dimensional power siphon. Indeed, he actually invented that machinery "long before" Wrecker was banished by Loki. The machinery has nothing to do with the interdimensional energies.

Do you know exactly why I am so sure of both conclusion? Because the entire Wrecking Crew begins losing their powers due to the artificial Ragnarok in Journey Into Mystery #505:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/More%20Random/th_WreckingCrew03JIM505.jpg http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/More%20Random/th_WreckingCrew04.jpg

This is utter proof that Wrecker never learned to harness the interdimensional energies outside of Thunderstrike #14 otherwise he would have just replenished his waning power. It's also utter proof that Thunderball couldn't use his machine to harness those interdimensional energies either, since his power is diminishing as well. Bottom-line is they never demonstrated an ability to harness those interdimensional energies thereafter.

^ continued:

3) Energy Absorption from Avengers vol.3 #16-18 is invalid because the so-called upgrade was just an unstable poor-man's substitute for their original Asgardian powers. They literally state that themselves in the first scan. And while Monica Rambeau does amp them increasingly over a few issues, (making them formidable), she demonstrates its unreliability by purposefully recharging them over and over again to burn them out like how "a rechargeable battery does as it wears out" as stated in the scond scan:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/More%20Random/th_WreckingCrew06aAvengers16.jpg http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/More%20Random/th_WreckingCrew06bAvengers18.jpg

And whether you argue they retain this ability and that makes them more formidable to Thor than before, that's garbage. In Thor vol.2 #28, the Wrecking Crew go after Thor and the Warrior's Three because, again, their Zola-given abilities are a poor-man's substitute. Wrecker literally admits, " emember how we used to have soopernatural Asgardian powers that made us stronger than we are now?" in the first scan:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/More%20Random/th_WreckingCrew07Thorv228.jpg http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/More%20Random/th_WreckingCrew08.jpg http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/More%20Random/th_WreckingCrew09Thorv229.jpg

So they go out and drain energies from them and they're restored to their original state. And you know what happens to them after all these supposed "upgrades" you're trying to rely on? Bottom-line is they get immediately ragestomped by Thor: Originally posted by OneDumbG0
============
Wrecking Crew
============

Thor vs Wrecking Crew again, from Thor vol. 2 #29:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsWreckingCrew05v229.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsWreckingCrew06.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsWreckingCrew07.jpg So tell me again how the first three upgrades (which aren't really upgrades at all) and a non-existent fourth upgrade (which you admit they lost during Omega Flight already) changes how Thor can ragestomp them? These Wrecking Crew "upgrades" are myths. And made-up myths don't change how Thor has ragestomped the Wrecking Crew multiple times. If you wish to continue this discussion, let me know.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Heh! but no.

Ideally no I wouldn't say so either (sans Tanaraq upgrade or some outrageous energy boost). My point is if he can give a fight to Thor in multiple occasions why would Ares stomp him and the Crew? i'm with you on the crew hanging ares out to dry, he's no thor.

thor #171 and thor #191 wrecker says the same line about too many do gooders and lessening that number by killing thor almost word for word. strange

herc basically two pages the entire crew though, but it was after getting his ass handed to him by them first, without thor they could have kept going on a downed herculese though. hmmmm

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Let's take these in chronological order:

1) The Ulik training from Thor #418 is valid because they learned new abilities and have demonstrated their use thereafter. But the bottom-line is, it still didn't stop Thor from ragestomping them thereafter.

2) Dimensional Interface from Thunderstrike #14 (which you likely meant) and Alpha Flight #119 is invalid because apparently you think those comics suggested that Wrecker found a way to amp himself with energies from the dimension Loki banished him to. And thereafter, you apparently believe Thunderball found a way for all four members to amp themselves through those dimensional energies.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/More%20Random/th_WreckingCrew00Thunderstrike14.jpg http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/More%20Random/th_WreckingCrew00a.jpg http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/More%20Random/th_WreckingCrew02.jpg

Both premises are false: (i) Wrecker may have been aware of why he was being amped in the first scan, but he never managed to control and harness that ability as shown in the second scan; and (ii) Thunderball only found a way to redistribute the energies they shared freely without relying on Wrecker. He never found a way to harness those interdimensional energies with his trans-dimensional power siphon. Indeed, he actually invented that machinery "long before" Wrecker was banished by Loki. The machinery has nothing to do with the interdimensional energies.

Both are false? heh! Let's ignore the little detail where Wrecker and Thunderball were said to be stronger then ever. Also what did your scans show?

Do you know exactly why I am so sure of both conclusion? Because the entire Wrecking Crew begins losing their powers due to the artificial Ragnarok in Journey Into Mystery #505:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/More%20Random/th_WreckingCrew03JIM505.jpg http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/More%20Random/th_WreckingCrew04.jpg

This is utter proof that Wrecker never learned to harness the interdimensional energies outside of Thunderstrike #14 otherwise he would have just replenished his waning power. It's also utter proof that Thunderball couldn't use his machine to harness those interdimensional energies either, since his power is diminishing as well. Bottom-line is they never demonstrated an ability to harness those interdimensional energies thereafter.

1) Ok? Never said that upgrade alone would even close to being enough.

2) Yeah sorry meant Thunderstrike. Both are false? heh! Let's ignore the little detail where Wrecker and Thunderball were said to be stronger then ever. Also what did your scans show? and as noted when he was fighting Alpha Flight he was getting stronger with each passing second

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/AlphaFlight118-21-1.jpg

So it was more then just redirecting energies, regarding the Journey to the Mystery they were losing their power as you noted as they were being taken away. It didn't just wear off you even said so yourself.

4) Invalid Heh! Yet those absorbing energeries powers were giving Wrecker over the edge against Thor when he was stealing Photon's powers and Thor #171 Thor was impressed. If they don't have energy to steal yeah their most definetly weaker, but once they got their asgardian powers back their base strength became stronger and they retained that energy absorption ability making them have more power other then just brute strength. The Crew have far more abilities then Ares could hope for.

Heh! They got ragestomped when they were sneakattacked and just got their powers back. Hell Thunderball was out of the fight even before they knew there was a fight. While Bulldozer was in the pool Thor threw his hammer at him, and Thor uses the crowbar on Wrecker and Piledriver which as noted he can't....

1. http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd199/MachineMan616/SpectacularSpider-Man126-03.jpg
2. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/Thor_1990_418_07.jpg

So they only ragestomped them once when he sneak attacked them, when they just got their powers back and how he took out Piledriver and Wrecker was PIS.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So tell me again how the first three upgrades (which aren't really upgrades at all) and a non-existent fourth upgrade (which you admit they lost during Omega Flight already) changes how Thor can ragestomp them? These Wrecking Crew "upgrades" are myths. And made-up myths don't change how Thor has ragestomped the Wrecking Crew multiple times. If you wish to continue this discussion, let me know.

Arn't really upgrades at all? Heh! funny as they say their upgrades in the comics, but guess you won't accept those quotes either then? Yeah I said they lost their Omega Flight, so what was the point of that comment? but really they still should have their other upgrades but of course are often ignored. For instance when was the last time we have seen Wrecker do an energy blast? We know he can do it, but never shown. Well considering the Crew have stalemated Thor, and Wrecker alone has stalemated Thor himself I think the evidence saying he can't ragestomp them is on the side of the majority of the comics rather then just the one instance your talking about where basically he sneakattacked them and took out 2 members even before they knew what was going on. Not even Hulk can ragestomp the Crew and they have fought him several times (one time, Wrecker one-shotted him). Compelling arguement

haha myths? On-panel statements saying their upgrades is a myth? Oh heaven arn't you precious.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i'm with you on the crew hanging ares out to dry, he's no thor.

Agreed.

That's my last post, reply if you want Ill give you the last word.

would ur opinion change if he was given the bloodaxe for a weapon?

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
would ur opinion change if he was given the bloodaxe for a weapon?

yes. That weapon was pretty uber

Originally posted by -K-M-
1) Ok? Never said that upgrade alone would even close to being enough.That in tandem with any of these phantom upgrades you rely on haven't done anything close enough to give them any appreciable advantage over a Thor who stops holding back. Reread Thor vol.2 #29. Originally posted by -K-M-
2) Yeah sorry meant Thunderstrike. Both are false? heh! Let's ignore the little detail where Wrecker and Thunderball were said to be stronger then ever. Also what did your scans show? and as noted when he was fighting Alpha Flight he was getting stronger with each passing second

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/AlphaFlight118-21-1.jpg

So it was more then just redirecting energies, regarding the Journey to the Mystery they were losing their power as you noted as they were being taken away. It didn't just wear off you even said so yourself.Wrecker was stronger than ever in that specific story. Nowhere else. One-time plot device does not a permanent upgrade make. Thunderball was simply drawing an increasing share of their shared power (perfectly plausible, if not the correct, answer): (i) nothing shows Thunderball drawing on the interdimensional energies specifically; (ii) nothing shows that the machine was deisgned to draw interdimensional energies (in fact, he designed it long before Wrecker was even banished there); and (iii) MOST IMPORTANTLY, they never show a capacity to draw on those energies thereafter.

Whether we disagree on whether such an ability ever existed in the first place, it's irresponsible to ignore that they never drew on it thereafter. After all, they were using Zola's crappy substitute to draw on random sources when stripped of their Asgardian-borne powers, so why not use this wonderful doohicky to draw on these interdimensional energies? That informs me quite well what's occurring now, and what occurred then: Wrecker never figured out how to re-access those interdimensional energies. Thunderball's machine only gave him access to free power-sharing of their current pool of power (as returned from Loki upon his defeat) in a bid to be leader (which failed). It never drew on those interdimensional energies.

^ continued: Originally posted by -K-M-
4) Invalid Heh! Yet those absorbing energeries powers were giving Wrecker over the edge against Thor when he was stealing Photon's powers and Thor #171 Thor was impressed. If they don't have energy to steal yeah their most definetly weaker, but once they got their asgardian powers back their base strength became stronger and they retained that energy absorption ability making them have more power other then just brute strength. The Crew have far more abilities then Ares could hope for.They're restored to their original state. They had no more use for Zola's unreliable substitute upgrades. Why would they use inferior abilities when their original Asgardian-borne abilities exceed them? They're utterly superfluous: "Hey, I have sh1tty energy absorption capabilities now." "Hey, I just got my superior Asgardian-borne energy absorption abilities back!!" "Idea! Let me keep using the sh1tty energy absorption abilities!" . . . Come to think of it, they might just be stupid enough to do that. Originally posted by -K-M-
Heh! They got ragestomped when they were sneakattacked and just got their powers back. Hell Thunderball was out of the fight even before they knew there was a fight. While Bulldozer was in the pool Thor threw his hammer at him, and Thor uses the crowbar on Wrecker and Piledriver which as noted he can't....

1. http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd199/MachineMan616/SpectacularSpider-Man126-03.jpg
2. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/Thor_1990_418_07.jpg

So they only ragestomped them once when he sneak attacked them, when they just got their powers back and how he took out Piledriver and Wrecker was PIS. I don't buy the "Thor ambushed them so it doesn't count" excuse. Still ragestomped them. Badly. As he has done before when he's lost his patience. This speaks against the establishment of these phantom upgrades in the first place. You can't ignore that they haven't used it to gain any appreciable advantage over Thor. Wrecker has been smacked by his own crowbar several times, usually by strong people. No need to think too hard about it.
Originally posted by -K-M-
Arn't really upgrades at all? Heh! funny as they say their upgrades in the comics, but guess you won't accept those quotes either then? Yeah I said they lost their Omega Flight, so what was the point of that comment? but really they still should have their other upgrades but of course are often ignored. For instance when was the last time we have seen Wrecker do an energy blast? We know he can do it, but never shown. Well considering the Crew have stalemated Thor, and Wrecker alone has stalemated Thor himself I think the evidence saying he can't ragestomp them is on the side of the majority of the comics rather then just the one instance your talking about where basically he sneakattacked them and took out 2 members even before they knew what was going on. Not even Hulk can ragestomp the Crew and they have fought him several times (one time, Wrecker one-shotted him). Compelling arguement

haha myths? On-panel statements saying their upgrades is a myth? Oh heaven arn't you precious. Wrecking Crew have held their own when Thor holds back. Everytime he's pushed past the limits of his patience, he ragestomps them with his full strength/powers. Using low feats from Hulk who has been knocked out by less than even a jobbing Wrecking Crew doesn't change that.

Twisting comics for your own purposes in contravention of logic doesn't = on-panel upgrade. You haven't established their existence/use, much less their game-changing nature.

so we all agree that Ares god of war wins, beats them upstart wannabes like a red headed stepchild, right?

Heh! I only read one part of your post and that was all I needed to read. Did you seriously say it doesn't matter that Thor sneak attacked them? He even took two members of the Crew out before they even knew what was going on and did something which is stated in the comic he can't? Heh! and your telling me I'm twisting things around, but good to know sneak attacks are accurate portrayals though. I got to remember that.

Wild Shadow the majority thinks the Crew wins

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
so we all agree that Ares god of war wins, beats them upstart wannabes like a red headed stepchild, right? um no....only odg thinks that.

Originally posted by Starscream M
um no....only odg thinks that. thats not true i just looked at all the pages he is not the only one. he is just the one voicing and arguing feats and abilities giving his reason.

Just read a recent hulk comic... Where hulk easily handles all four wrecking crew members who were asking for a ransom or they would destroy mount rushmore... After defeating them Thor arrives and bloodies hulk up... Hulk in turn wtfpwns Thor with his own hammer.

Hulk ftw. Hehe.
Err. But ares still loses here. :-)

Originally posted by rotiart
Just read a recent hulk comic... Where hulk easily handles all four wrecking crew members who were asking for a ransom or they would destroy mount rushmore... After defeating them Thor arrives and bloodies hulk up... Hulk in turn wtfpwns Thor with his own hammer.

Hulk ftw. Hehe.
Err. But ares still loses here. :-)

I still can't believe they ended the thor vs. hulk fight the way they did.

Originally posted by rotiart
Just read a recent hulk comic... Where hulk easily handles all four wrecking crew members who were asking for a ransom or they would destroy mount rushmore...
Err. But ares still loses here. :-)

al-qaeda should have done that instead of the other sh@#.

it would have gotten their point accross just as effectively but then we would risk having new faces like Bush and Obama and Bill Clinton when they rebuild it..

bumpity bump