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1. Di Dante and War
2. Dante Sparda and Vincent Valentine
3. Illidan Stormrage and Raziel
4. Akuma and Kain
5. Sora and Mario
6. Starkiller and NG Ryu
7.Cloud and Zack Fair
8. Samus and Imperfect Iron Man


They can attack them in any order. All equipment accessible.

Which Link? I assume GoW3 feats are allowed?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Which Link? I assume GoW3 feats are allowed? Best incarnation.

Tough one.

Cant see them getting past 2/3 tbh, 4 is a stomp. Starkiller could prob solo. Not sure about the rest.

2, 4, 5, 6, 8. Either loose or have high difficulty.... or loose.

1. Win.
2. Win.
3. Don't know anything about Stormrage so won't say.
4. Hmm...Akuma could probably one shot them with an island busting punch, but he'd also be the MUCH easier guy to kill. 50/50.
5. Win.
6. Starkiller could just force crush their brains I guess.
7. Win.
8. I don't care. Don't know jack about an Imperfect Iron Man either.

I say they beat four thanks to Kratos new gear.

Whats the new gear?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Whats the new gear? two blades that can rip souls out, Boots that make Kratos faster (arkham fast). Guantlets that enhances his strength and make explosions. That's all for now.

I cannot see how thats going to help him beat Kain.

He also resisted a massive soul stealling attack from Hades.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I cannot see how thats going to help him beat Kain.

Resisted Soul stealing. Can hurt intangible beings with the BoO. Kain stands no chance against Link and Kratos.

Originally posted by Phanteros
two blades that can rip souls out, Boots that make Kratos faster (arkham fast). Guantlets that enhances his strength and make explosions. That's all for now.

Thats all the extras he get iirc. Disappointing that the boots only temporarily increase running speed.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Resisted Soul stealing. Can hurt intangible beings with the BoO. Kain stands no chance against Link and Kratos.

No? he just overpowers Kratos' mind with his own powers who proceeds to kill Link.

I am not even going to bother listing the vast number of ways Kain could physically, mentally or magically destroy Kratos and Link alone.

Originally posted by Phanteros
He also resisted a massive soul stealling attack from Hades.

Ok thats more useful against Kain, I will not ask for feats as I will "see them" when I play the game.

I would just like to say that Kain is absolutely and utterly powerless against Kratos in any conceivable way. Not to piss BT off, but because its true.

He can't physically hurt Kratos. And his magic and TK is absolute weak shit compared to what Kratos deals with. Kratos one shots Kain if he wants to.

Kain going hurt Kratos and Link physically?

Link maybe. He is incapable of that against Kratos. Anyone who's seen or played GoW3 will attest.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
I would just like to say that Kain is absolutely and utterly powerless against Kratos in any conceivable way. Not to piss BT off, but because its true.

He can't phsyically hurt Kratos. And his magic and TK is absolute weak shit compared to what Kratos deals with. Kratos one shots Kain if he wants to.

Yes because you made this post in a very non provacative manner did you not?


And this is untrue, whats Kratos tanked without damage? how much PSI? and I doubt you even know kains spells, Kratos would be defeatd or die in the use of any one of the better ones. Minus soul powers if Hades really did lay a good one on him.

And Kratos would never hit Kain if Kain did not want him to anyway.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Link maybe. He is incapable of that against Kratos. This is OmniLink

Originally posted by BloodRain
Thats all the extras he get iirc. Disappointing that the boots only temporarily increase running speed.

Gameplay restriction most likely.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No? he just overpowers Kratos' mind with his own powers who proceeds to kill Link.

I am not even going to bother listing the vast number of ways Kain could physically, mentally or magically destroy Kratos and Link alone.



Ok thats more useful against Kain, I will not ask for feats as I will "see them" when I play the game.

I too could come up with a number of ways they could make Kain their sex slave .

BFR him with the BoO is one.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix


I too could come up with a number of ways they could make Kain their sex slave .

BFR him with the BoO is one.

Go on and try, it could be interesting.

Hopefully your refering to a power shown in GOW 3?

No need to, it would be a waste of time.

GoW2.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Yes because you made this post in a very non provacative manner did you not?


And this is untrue, whats Kratos tanked without damage? how much PSI? and I doubt you even know kains spells, Kratos would be defeatd or die in the use of any one of the better ones. Minus soul powers if Hades really did lay a good one on him.

And Kratos would never hit Kain if Kain did not want him to anyway.

Yeah, figures you'd jump right in without knowing anything. It is as true as the sun rising in the morning. Just play the game, and be sure not to attempt to underplay the feats as they happen just because I said he'd destroy Kain. Not that we needed GoW3 to know that.

Kratos has tanked millions of times more PSI than Kain can muster even in his dreams in GoW3. Name a single spell of Kain's that's worth a damn here. Do it.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
No need to, it would be a waste of time.

GoW2.


Yes it would.

Kratos has never performed that move, not to mension it would be useless.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Yeah, figures you'd jump right in without knowing anything. It is as true as the sun rising in the morning. Just play the game, and be sure not to attempt to underplay the feats as they happen just because I said he'd destroy Kain. Not that we needed GoW3 to know that.

Kratos has tanked millions of times more PSI than Kain can muster even in his dreams in GoW3. Name a single spell of Kain's that's worth a damn here. Do it.

Says the guy who does not know anything about Kain, I know plenty on Kratos having played Gow 1 and 2, hes shown nothing that could help him survive against most of Kains powers there.

Bloodshower, mind control, possibly lightning bolt even.

immolate is an interesting ability, its sort of like pyrokeniesis that burns you inside out.

Hell Kain just slows time, walks up to Kratos and plucks his eyes from his sockets leaving him screaming on the ground.

Got any defence against those?

Originally posted by Phanteros
This is OmniLink

Ah. Well, according to Paste we have to consider Omni Link featless.

As much Kratos is well... Kratos (need i say more?) time powers can mess anyone up.

Nah, Oni Link/Fierce Deity Link is featless. OmniLink is composite, and VERY featy.

Kain can completly freeze Kratos in time with a bolt of energy as well once he is slowed. Kratos can do nothing.

Link reflects the bolt back at Kain before it ever reaches Kratos, who could stop it with the fleece.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Says the guy who does not know anything about Kain, I know plenty on Kratos having played Gow 1 and 2, hes shown nothing that could help him survive against most of Kains powers there.

Bloodshower, mind control, possibly lightning bolt even.

immolate is an interesting ability, its sort of like pyrokeniesis that burns you inside out.

Hell Kain just slows time, walks up to Kratos and plucks his eyes from his sockets leaving him screaming on the ground.

Got any defence against those?

bloodshower, useless against any high tier enemies. mind control, Ares wasn't affective there. Lightning bolt? Lol. Absolutely usless. Kratos tanks a lightning bolt far more powerful than any meager offensive magic Kain can conjure.

Immolate. Kratos has shown amazing burn tanking in GoW3. Useless. It wasn't all that effective against bosses, and I believe the Hylden Lord was immune altogether, and he was relatively unimpressive anyway.

Intangibility is nothing new for Kratos. Kain has to go on the offensive sometime. And he's far too slow to get off on Kratos anyway, he'll be countered in the blink of an eye. (Just take a wild guess which Olympian Kratos was fast enough to react to.)

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Link reflects the bolt back at Kain before it ever reaches Kratos, who could stop it with the fleece.

Neither will be reflecting anything, as they are already slowed to a crawl and Kain launches in point blank into Kratos' face. Not that the fleece would do anything other than catch the time freezing effect. Likely the same with Link, he raises his shield, takes the bolt only to be frozen in time anyway.

Master Sword does the reflecting, the shield is wholly optional in this fight.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain can completly freeze Kratos in time with a bolt of energy as well once he is slowed. Kratos can do nothing. What Scream said. Plus what a bolt of energy is going to do to Kratos? Name of the Spell as well?

Originally posted by CosmicComet
bloodshower, useless against any high tier enemies. mind control, Ares wasn't affective there. Lightning bolt? Lol. Absolutely usless. Kratos tanks a lightning bolt far more powerful than any meager offensive magic Kain can conjure.

Immolate. Kratos has shown amazing burn tanking in GoW3. Useless. It wasn't all that effective against bosses, and I believe the Hylden Lord was immune altogether, and he was relatively unimpressive anyway.

Intangibility is nothing new for Kratos. Kain has to go on the offensive sometime. And he's far too slow to get off on Kratos anyway, he'll be countered in the blink of an eye. (Just take a wild guess which Olympian Kratos was fast enough to react to.)

Thats not a counter at all, useless to "high tier" enemies is apprently a counter? no, Bloodshower would kill both Link and Kratos. Ares did not try and mind control Kratos, he used the terror of seeing his family being killed by his own mindless bloodthirst to mentally distrupt him, not control him. Show me him tanking the lightning.

Bosses? so your using gameplay mechanics? and no, it was the only way to harm the Hylden lord when he had the reaver.

I am not just talking about intangibility, Kain can teleport far out of their reach in hardly any time at all. Kain could just pull Kratos from the ground by the head nad leave him struggling in the air with TK. Kain just uses TK to send the blood to Kratos' heart or brain instead of to himself. Easy win against an easy opponent.

Kain would just slice Kratos in half down the middle with the reaver, the energy the reaver gives out would blow him to piecies.

Originally posted by Phanteros
What Scream said. Plus what a bolt of energy is going to do to Kratos? Name of the Spell as well?

Incapacitation.


Theres no defence against the AOE time slow that would lead to Kain tearing Kratos apart with impunity. And I countered it.



Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Master Sword does the reflecting, the shield is wholly optional in this fight.


Same thing, the bolts still touching something Links using. Not that Links fast enough to react at any angle while already slowed.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Yes it would.

Kratos has never performed that move, not to mension it would be useless.

Doesn't matter if he hasn't performed the move, it's still a viable option as the Blade has the ability to do so.

Kain's been BFR'd by Raziel before. Useless how? Oh I get it, he eventually came back. Yeah, it's still a loss.

Its a good thing Link is using Naru's love.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Doesn't matter if he hasn't performed the move, it's still a viable option as the Blade has the ability to do so.

Kain's been BFR'd by Raziel before. Useless how? Oh I get it, he eventually came back. Yeah, it's still a loss.

A viable option for Zues.


Useless because the wave that BFR the titans is just that, a large wave. Show me evidence of it effecting weather like the mist form Kain can take and then I can counter again by saying Kain teleports over/onto Kratos. not to mension the charge time, Zues raised the weapon in the air and it flashed with energy for a fairly long time (for Kain at least).

It's a pretty pathetic slow, Link has one of his own, I might add, and you're not going to freeze Link by hitting the master sword, that's just ridiculous. The bolt will be reflected, like any other bolt. Also, Omni Link has a lot of feats to fall back on, including outmatching a character who's fast enough to *jump* on bullets atleast twice.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
It's a pretty pathetic slow, Link has one of his own, I might add, and you're not going to freeze Link by hitting the master sword, that's just ridiculous. The bolt will be reflected, like any other bolt. Also, Omni Link has a lot of feats to fall back on, including outmatching a character who's fast enough to *jump* on bullets atleast twice.

Call it what you want, it will slow an already slow link to a crawl. Ridiculous? explain? and its not like any other bolt, it does not work on doing damage to the target, it just freezes it.

I would like to see this "jumping" on bullets, not that outmatching him means Link can go anywhere near as fast that character.

Originally posted by Phanteros
Its a good thing Link is using Naru's love.

Surprisingly I know what this is, its a little shield or something right?

What are its feats?

Dark Link can backflip onto a sword slash in 0.015 seconds, Link still beats him, a fast opponent, which Kain is not, is not going to be hard for Link to hit.

One of Link's many invun spells, this one can stand up to Ganondorf, Kain isn't gettign through it.

Between Link and Kratos, I'm not sure why you're even trying to argue in Kain's favour.

Making Link invincible.

It's half a second at best.

Originally posted by Nephthys


It's half a second at best. Cutscenes say otherwise. Link can slash 585 degrees in 0.1, you think he'll take 0.5 to do less than 90?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Dark Link can backflip onto a sword slash in 0.015 seconds, Link still beats him, a fast opponent, which Kain is not, is not going to be hard for Link to hit.

One of Link's many invun spells, this one can stand up to Ganondorf, Kain isn't gettign through it.

This has been countered in other threads by other people, that one slash is not as fast as the great spin and Link beating him just because he can do that is not impressive unless you can prove he is consistently quick in every attack against link. And Kain is quicker than Link easily, with or without time slow.

A no limit fallacy and your using gameplay mechanics for a feat? Ganondorf is not impressive, unless he has more than the feats involving him apprently knocking MS a few feet and killing a sage?



Originally posted by Phanteros
Making Link invincible.


oh I see, so Galactus or the Living tribunal from marvel wouldnt have a chance at damaging it?

This is a no limits fallacy. What are its actual feats?

Nice red herring, But Galactus and LT isn't in this fight. Nor Kain is strong as those two Universe and Multiverse guys. but Nice try to appeal to my comic senses.

Busting an island. :]

Also, I lol'd. Kain's so slow his slashes are a full third of a second. Normal human's could outdo that, Link's on another level.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Busting an island. :]

Also, I lol'd. Kain's so slow his slashes are a full third of a second. Normal human's could outdo that, Link's on another level.

In another scene, show me him using exactly the same power at the same level on the shield in a cutscene and you may have something here.

Not in a reaction, a normal human could not even percieve their target and neither could link, he would just about see a blur slicing through him.

Originally posted by Phanteros
Nice red herring, But Galactus and LT isn't in this fight. Nor Kain is strong as them. but Nice try to appeal to my comic senses.

A red herring? a better fallacy you could have called upon is a straw man, I was proving a point and outling your no limit fallacy which you still did not address.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats not a counter at all, useless to "high tier" enemies is apprently a counter? no, Bloodshower would kill both Link and Kratos. Ares did not try and mind control Kratos, he used the terror of seeing his family being killed by his own mindless bloodthirst to mentally distrupt him, not control him. Show me him tanking the lightning.

Bosses? so your using gameplay mechanics? and no, it was the only way to harm the Hylden lord when he had the reaver.

I am not just talking about intangibility, Kain can teleport far out of their reach in hardly any time at all. Kain could just pull Kratos from the ground by the head nad leave him struggling in the air with TK. Kain just uses TK to send the blood to Kratos' heart or brain instead of to himself. Easy win against an easy opponent.

Kain would just slice Kratos in half down the middle with the reaver, the energy the reaver gives out would blow him to piecies.


That IS a counter because it is a set power limit for the move. Mind control, what powerful opponent has Kain mind controlled at all? The point was that mind raping has not shown to be effective. Still this is a question mark, and I'll leave that open for now.

Show you the lightning tanking? Nah. Someone else can link to it, it happens in the very first level, but just to annoy you I'll ask that you see it in game. Because it is truly an awesome spectacle when it happens.

You simply can't designate bosses as a game mechanic for what I mentioned. Immolate can one shot lesser foes, but it can't for bosses. That's a demonstration of its use against higher scaling powers, canonical as bosses are > regular enemies, thus its less effective against them. As for the Hylden Lord, I believe he can dodge them at least, and that maybe what I confused it with. Regardless, Kratos still has the burn tanking that I mentioned.

Kain's physical strength is far too below Kratos to drag him into the ground. By feats, Kratos is millions of times above Kain in the strength department, naturally, he has some monumental feats in GoW3.

No, Kain cannot cut Kratos in half. As I said before, Kratos tanks some PSI delivery from beings far above Kain in physical strength.
Slash him, stab him, in whatever way he may try, Kain will not be able to cut Kratos. You'll see it for yourself, hell, one of the instances was already mentioned in this thread.

The shield stands up to things more impressive than Kain, anything beyond that is moot.

Originally posted by Burning thought
A red herring? a better fallacy you could have called upon is a straw man, I was proving a point and outling your no limit fallacy which you still did not address. I did address it. Kain is not strong as them. Maybe you need to read more into the context of what I say next time. Plus those guys are universal reality warpers compared to a small vampire.

Pretty much what Phanteros said. :]

Originally posted by CosmicComet
That IS a counter because it is a set power limit for the move. Mind control, what powerful opponent has Kain mind controlled at all? The point was that mind raping has not shown to be effective. Still this is a question mark, and I'll leave that open for now.

Show you the lightning tanking? Nah. Someone else can link to it, it happens in the very first level, but just to annoy you I'll ask that you see it in game. Because it is truly an awesome spectacle when it happens.

You simply can't designate bosses as a game mechanic for what I mentioned. Immolate can one shot lesser foes, but it can't for bosses. That's a demonstration of its use against higher scaling powers, canonical as bosses are > regular enemies, thus its less effective against them. Regardless, Kratos still has the burn tanking that I mentioned.

Kain's physical strength is far too below Kratos to drag him into the ground. By feats, Kratos is millions of times above Kain in the strength department, naturally, he has some monumental feats in GoW3.

No, Kain cannot cut Kratos in half. As I said before, Kratos tanks some PSI delivery from beings far above Kain in physical strength.
Slash him, stab him, in whatever way he may try, Kain will not be able to cut Kratos. You'll see it for yourself, hell, one of the instances was already mentioned in this thread.

Your making the assertion that its a set power level, and you should prove why Kratos can somehow randomly resist this power that he has never faced anything like before. I am not sure Kain has mind controlled anyone "powerful", fortunaltey nobody against him in this thread has mental technique against mind control, least of all Kratos.

I see.....well if its in GoW 3 I will see it myself soon.

I can, because the term "boss" is just a title for any special character at a given moment with a health bar. The fact the games mechanic does not allow you to one hit them, mind control them does not give them feats or downplay the power itself. Thats not always true, in canon some bosses such as those in Blood omen are just normal humans in some cases with a few special powers, that does not automatically give them mind resistance because you cannot mind control them, or immunity to soul powers.

I dont know, he must have some really major ones, Gow 1 and 2 as I recall has few real feats that puts him far above. He would also need durability feats for physcial attack.

Youve said but until you either provide the evidence or I have seen it in GoW 3 then its pretty useless.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The shield stands up to things more impressive than Kain, anything beyond that is moot.

Cutscene plez?

Originally posted by Phanteros
I did address it. Kain is not strong as them.


This is a red herring now, your trying to argue Kains not as strong as the characters I used to prove a point instead of actually providing evidence that the shield can withstand anything at all.

Boss character are stronger than fodder enemies. It has always been that way.

Originally posted by Burning thought
A viable option for Zeus.


Useless because the wave that BFR the titans is just that, a large wave. Show me evidence of it effecting weather like the mist form Kain can take and then I can counter again by saying Kain teleports over/onto Kratos. not to mension the charge time, Zues raised the weapon in the air and it flashed with energy for a fairly long time (for Kain at least).

Which he did via the weapon, hence Kratos can also repeat the feat. It'd be significantly easier for Kratos too, as he isn't affecting a number of enemies that are all larger than Kain.

Except he won't be trying to BFR a large number of enemies. He'll be trying to BFR one pathetic Vampire. There also won't be a charge time due to the above.

Affecting Mist form? Lulz, it can destroy intangible beings. Show me evidence of Kain remaining in Mist form for more than 30 seconds to avoid the BFR move, and then I'll just counter it by saying that Kratos could attack and neuter him with the BoO.

Originally posted by Phanteros
Boss character are stronger than fodder enemies. It has always been that way.


Yes they are, they have more hitpoints, sometimes have harder to block abilities and can hit faster. Unfortunatly gameplay mechanics and balance is not canon.

Good thing canon Ganon destroys islands.

Originally posted by Burning thought

This is a red herring now, your trying to argue Kains not as strong as the characters I used to prove a point instead of actually providing evidence that the shield can withstand anything at all. That's because Kain isn't powerful as them. You the one you used that attempted No limit fallacy on here first.

it point is that Kain isn't strong enough to by bypass the shield if Ganondorf can not.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Which he did via the weapon, hence Kratos can also repeat the feat. It'd be significantly easier for Kratos too, as he isn't affecting a number of enemies that are all larger than Kain.

Except he won't be trying to BFR a large number of enemies. He'll be trying to BFR one pathetic Vampire. There also won't be a charge time due to the above.

Affecting Mist form? Lulz, it can destroy intangible beings. Show me evidence of Kain remaining in Mist form for more than 30 seconds to avoid the BFR move, and then I'll just counter it by saying that Kratos could attack and neuter him with the BoO.

So your assuming the weapon is the only component in that power, and that Zeus had nothing to do with it? a human could just pick it up and use all those powers? your also assuming its power can be somehow automatically scaled/made quicker for less opponents? hellava lot for you to prove here.

One faster, more magically powerful and advanced vampire who could cut his head off before he even starts to think about charging anything. Also pretending your mocking ignorence I could simply say all of Kains powers are instant and take no time at all because he is fighting one pathetic Spartan.

Make up your mind, are you using the swords slashing powers of striking foes or are you using its BFR wave that only Zeus has used in the past, takes a long time to charge and has only worked on physical entities?

kains faser than Kratos at base, ignoring time slow and other powers.


Originally posted by Phanteros
That's because Kain isn't powerful as them. You the one you used that attempted No limit fallacy on here first.

it point is that Kain isn't strong enough to by bypass the shield if Ganondorf can not.


Show me Ganondorf caonnically striking the shield.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Yes they are, they have more hitpoints, sometimes have harder to block abilities and can hit faster. Unfortunatly gameplay mechanics and balance is not canon. Canonically a boss is obviously going to be stronger than the fodder enemies, otherwise its not a boss.

Originally posted by Burning thought
So your assuming the weapon is the only component in that power, and that Zeus had nothing to do with it? a human could just pick it up and use all those powers? your also assuming its power can be somehow automatically scaled/made quicker for less opponents? hellava lot for you to prove here.

One faster, more magically powerful and advanced vampire who could cut his head off before he even starts to think about charging anything. Also pretending your mocking ignorence I could simply say all of Kains powers are instant and take no time at all because he is fighting one pathetic Spartan.

Make up your mind, are you using the swords slashing powers of striking foes or are you using its BFR wave that only Zeus has used in the past, takes a long time to charge and has only worked on physical entities?

kains faser than Kratos at base, ignoring time slow and other powers.

1. Kratos is not a human. Apparently Kratos can and did. humans are weaker than titans so yeah.

Originally posted by Phanteros
Canonically a boss is obviously going to be stronger than the fodder enemies, otherwise its not a boss.


Your sort of trying to claim that every boss in every game is stronger than normal enemies, this is not the case in canon. Many games have you facing normal humans, only for their leader (a boss) to not only be a normal human but can apprently take clips full of SMG fire to take down. These are all gameplay mechanics.

Originally posted by Phanteros
1. Kratos is not a human. Apparently Kratos can and did. humans are weaker than titans so yeah.


1. Well done, hes never been one either, hes a demigod and at one point God enhanced with various powers. Where are you trying to go with these statements exactly?

So what your telling me is that Ganondorf can die like a normal enemy despite being stronger? In those games they are humans but we are talking about superhumans.

Originally posted by Phanteros
So what your telling me is that Ganondorf can die like a normal enemy despite being stronger? In those games they are humans but we are talking about superhumans.


Nah, Ganondorf needs feats for his powers, thats what I am telling you. Claiming a character as a "boss" to try and give it any advantages is pointless.

No were not, Blood omen has a large number of human enemies without any feats. In gameplay however their somehow immune to all the one hit kill powers despite not having powers to support this. But anyway this is a pointless argument thats not really relevant.

Originally posted by Burning thought
So your assuming the weapon is the only component in that power, and that Zeus had nothing to do with it? a human could just pick it up and use all those powers? your also assuming its power can be somehow automatically scaled/made quicker for less opponents? hellava lot for you to prove here.

Considering Zeus has never displayed that power when he doesn't have the weapon, I'd say yes, it's the weapon.

It depends on whether or not the wielder is powerful enough, and Kratos is.

Okay, say it cannot be scaled down, and it still requires that two-three second charge, Kratos still has Link to defend him, amigo. Kain isn't fast enough to avoid the wave and try and attack Kratos at the same time. If you think he is, show me proof.

Originally posted by Burning thought
One faster, more magically powerful and advanced vampire who could cut his head off before he even starts to think about charging anything. Also pretending your mocking ignorence I could simply say all of Kains powers are instant and take no time at all because he is fighting one pathetic Spartan.

Right, because he has always cuts the heads off his opponents.
Show me proof that Kain attempts and succeeds in cutting the heads off his opponents as powerful as him, or in your view, opponents almost as powerful as him.


Originally posted by Burning thought
Make up your mind, are you using the swords slashing powers of striking foes or are you using its BFR wave that only Zeus has used in the past, takes a long time to charge and has only worked on physical entities?

What the? Do you see me asking you to make up your mind on whether Kain is going to attempt Blood Shower or his mind control to deal with his opponents.

Originally posted by Burning thought
kains faser than Kratos at base, ignoring time slow and other powers.


Show me proof that he's faster than Kratos at base.

Taking into account other powers, Kratos is faster.

gotta go.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Considering Zeus has never displayed that power when he doesn't have the weapon, I'd say yes, it's the weapon.

It depends on whether or not the wielder is powerful enough, and Kratos is.

Okay, say it cannot be scaled down, and it still requires that two-three second charge, Kratos still has Link to defend him, amigo. Kain isn't fast enough to avoid the wave and try and attack Kratos at the same time. If you think he is, show me proof.



Right, because he has always cut the heads off his opponents.
Show me proof that Kain attempts to cut the heads off his opponents as powerful as him, or in your view, opponents almost as powerful as him.




What the? Do you see me asking you to make up your mind of whether Kain is going to attempt Blood Shower or his mind control to deal with his opponents.





Show me proof that he's faster than Kratos at base.

Taking into account other powers, Kratos is faster.

You would say yes, but you could never prove that the power is solely the weapon. Afterall Zeus did actually craft the weapon, with his own powers of heaven and those of earth if I recall.

Again, this is a bold assumption. Your sort of using your opinion as an argument rather than facts for your support.

So Kain just teleports behind Kratos who BFR a defending Link by accident? the wave of the BoO only went in one direction and Links not going to protect him.

The slower teleports in this vid:

gn3lMHTml2k

Would be more than enough to just bypass the wave. Its not that fast, its just large.

Your asking for proof that Kain can cut off heads? you know Kains got a sword and arms to use it right?

Well you need to make up your mind because your trying to combine powers. Are you suggesting hes using the huge wave, in which case Kain can go mist form, theres nothing to suggest it will BFR mist, clouds, the terrain etc. It only BFR the titans.

OF1S2bo6cSg

At 1:08, he would do that to Link and Kratos, neither would know whats hit them as I am not sure I have seen them show quicker than human reaction time.

I pretty sure that Kratos and Link can parry that.

Both coudl easily

Originally posted by Burning thought
You would say yes, but you could never prove that the power is solely the weapon. Afterall Zeus did actually craft the weapon, with his own powers of heaven and those of earth if I recall.

Okay, so tell me, you posted a video of Kain teleporting. Does Kain ever teleport using the Dimension Fragment's power, but without the Reaver? Or does he need the Reaver to activate said ability. If so, it must the be Fragment's and in turn, the Reaver's ability, not Kain's. Get my drift, or would you like more proof?

Nahh, not his own powers. "Forged of the Heaven (Ouranus) and the Earth (Gaia)" is not his power. He's just the blacksmith, their power is the material.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Again, this is a bold assumption. Your sort of using your opinion as an argument rather than facts for your support.

Which is something you should be extremely accustomed to yes?

Originally posted by Burning thought
So Kain just teleports behind Kratos who BFR a defending Link by accident? the wave of the BoO only went in one direction and Links not going to protect him.

Nahh, the wave never BFR'd the Gods, only the Titans. It's selective. You want proof that it is selective?

Originally posted by Burning thought
The slower teleports in this vid:

gn3lMHTml2k

Would be more than enough to just bypass the wave. Its not that fast, its just large.

Of course, covering a battlefield with a radius that is a few miles long in seconds, is slow.

Damn, Kain must be a tortoise compared to that wave then.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Your asking for proof that Kain can cut off heads? you know Kains got a sword and arms to use it right?

And he'll be up against two other fighters who have swords and arms to use them . Kain will get his head cut off instead.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Well you need to make up your mind because your trying to combine powers. Are you suggesting hes using the huge wave, in which case Kain can go mist form, theres nothing to suggest it will BFR mist, clouds, the terrain etc. It only BFR the titans.

The mere fact that it didn't BFR the gods shows that it's selective. If it can affect the Titans (Gaia included who is in a way, the Earth itself), it can easily affect the Terrain. Clouds, pssh, Clouds are still physical, as is Kain's Mist form. Intangible, but still physical.

Show me proof that Kain's mist form is not tied to the Physical world and is not physical matter.

Originally posted by Burning thought
OF1S2bo6cSg

At 1:08, he would do that to Link and Kratos, neither would know whats hit them as I am not sure I have seen them show quicker than human reaction time.

Lulz, Link and Kratos have not shown faster than human reaction times? ScreamPaste needs to read this.

Since you have not seen them show faster than human reaction feats, I suppose you in fact do not know much about these series, even though you "claim" to.

You want proof as usual no? I suppose SC can post his infamous Dark Link ass-hopping (I prefer that term SC ) onto Link's sword. Of course to you, that's not a reaction feat, merely an average hop, as every human could jump on a sword swung by someone who is as fast as Link.

xBrW-T0jy4I
(3:32 - 3:51)

Oh that's right, I forgot. Humans regularly avoid the fists of 30 story beings, and they regularly punch chains while in mid-air.

ImcY4tynG9k
(3:38 - 5:20)

Kratos free-falling down the middle of Mount Olympus and avoiding multiple pillars shows multiple reaction feats. Heck, Kratos flying up the middle of Mount Olympus while next to the same Chain of Balance shows multiple reactions feats as well.

Oh wait, humans also regularly engage in free-falling down and flying up extremely tall mountains, all the while avoiding numerous obstacles in their path.

http://www.lufiaworld.com/files/minishcap/official/link-gust-jar.gif

Someone tell me what stops Link from sucking up Kain's mist form.

This reminds me of the time Luigi beat Kain because of the Poltergust. haermm

Originally posted by The Scenario
http://www.lufiaworld.com/files/minishcap/official/link-gust-jar.gif

Someone tell me what stops Link from sucking up Kain's mist form.

Lulz. Completely forgot about the Minnish Cap. And that's the one Zelda game I've played >__>.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Okay, so tell me, you posted a video of Kain teleporting. Does Kain ever teleport using the Dimension Fragment's power, but without the Reaver? Or does he need the Reaver to activate said ability. If so, it must the be Fragment's and in turn, the Reaver's ability, not Kain's. Get my drift, or would you like more proof?

Nahh, not his own powers. "Forged of the Heaven (Ouranus) and the Earth (Gaia)" is not his power. He's just the blacksmith, their power is the material.



Which is something you should be extremely accustomed to yes?



Nahh, the wave never BFR'd the Gods, only the Titans. It's selective. You want proof that it is selective?



Of course, covering a battlefield with a radius that is a few miles long in seconds, is slow.

Damn, Kain must be a tortoise compared to that wave then.



And he'll be up against two other fighters who have swords and arms to use them . Kain will get his head cut off instead.



The mere fact that it didn't BFR the gods shows that it's selective. If it can affect the Titans (Gaia included who is in a way, the Earth itself), it can easily affect the Terrain. Clouds, pssh, Clouds are still physical, as is Kain's Mist form. Intangible, but still physical.

Show me proof that Kain's mist form is not tied to the Physical world and is not physical matter.



Lulz, Link and Kratos have not shown faster than human reaction times? ScreamPaste needs to read this.

Since you have not seen them show faster than human reaction feats, I suppose you in fact do not know much about these series, even though you "claim" to.

You want proof as usual no? I suppose SC can post his infamous Dark Link ass-hopping (I prefer that term SC ) onto Link's sword. Of course to you, that's not a reaction feat, merely an average hop, as every human could jump on a sword swung by someone who is as fast as Link.

xBrW-T0jy4I
(3:32 - 3:51)

Oh that's right, I forgot. Humans regularly avoid the fists of 30 story beings, and they regularly punch chains while in mid-air.

ImcY4tynG9k
(3:38 - 5:20)

Kratos free-falling down the middle of Mount Olympus and avoiding multiple pillars shows multiple reaction feats. Heck, Kratos flying up the middle of Mount Olympus while next to the same Chain of Balance shows multiple reactions feats as well.

Oh wait, humans also regularly engage in free-falling down and flying up extremely tall mountains, all the while avoiding numerous obstacles in their path.

Kain teleports without activating the reaver at the end of Defiance. Not that its relevant, he always has the reaver.

He crafted it from those things, hints to him being able to control them to some degree. Not any old joe could craft that weapon, Kratos has never been shown to be capable.

Yes, people try and use it against me all the time.

A large and predictable wave coming towards him<one teleport.

Only Kains quicker due to evidence.


Thats not proof its selective, only that it did not affect the Gods, not evidence that he could have transported the clouds in the sky, or the earth their standing on. Clouds, oxygen, energy in the air are also all present but theres no evidence it removes all of those things.


Nah not in canon.

No I have played Gow 1 and 2. I assume however that your about to post evidence that you think is impressive?

No to me its just a gameplay mechanic, the sword swung slower than the great spin he is trying to base it on and Link beating a character can do that is not a speed feat according to scream:

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
gameplay defeats arent' feats

I admit I have not played chains of Olmypus, but thats not impressive reaction time. Hes not showing himself capable at reacting to 0.2 speeds or showing that his perception is above the human 0.5 second gap. Titans are slow despite their size. Also him falling through Olmypus is not reaction either.

Humans cannot, but not because their necesserily slow, their just not strong enough to swing blades out like Kratos can, and they dont have bravery+1. Thats still not a series of feats that put him above a human in reaction time, just in strength. Hes only reacting to titans and obstacles.

Originally posted by The Scenario
http://www.lufiaworld.com/files/minishcap/official/link-gust-jar.gif

Someone tell me what stops Link from sucking up Kain's mist form.


Your tactic is Link putting his sword aside/on his back, letting his guard down to pull out a cumbsome and obvious object like that when it would take Kain a fraction of a second simply to reform physical again and kill him in a teleport slash? "sigh"

Overall Kratos>Kain but the spartan has to overcome Kains special attack (Time powers) overcome that and he'd win. That im not sure he can do. However both team-mates will intervene.

#6 have a good chance.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Overall Kratos>Kain


Not at all, Kain has a larger variety of vastly more powerful magical attacks than Kratos, is far quicker physically and can use powers Kratos has no defence against. Kratos has nothing on Kain apart from strength.

And how do you propose they defend against Starkillers force powers?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Not at all, Kain has a larger variety of vastly more powerful magical attacks than Kratos, is far quicker physically and can use powers Kratos has no defence against. Kratos has nothing on Kain apart from strength.

And how do you propose they defend against Starkillers force powers?


Not physically quicker, especially not with Hermes' Winged Boots. But his magic could be the decider.

Link is (iirc) resistant to TK, and Kratos can still move when held by TK to an extent. Force for Kratos, Electricity and sabre will be trouble for them both.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Not physically quicker, especially not with Hermes' Winged Boots. But his magic could be the decider.

Link is (iirc) resistant to TK, and Kratos can still move when held by TK to an extent. Force for Kratos, Electricity and sabre will be trouble for them both.

Then thats not really "physically", at that point he was magically enhanced. His normal physical speed is slow however.

Nah hes not, the fans only claim he is because his enemies just so happen to decide not to use TK on him. Not really, he wont be able to do much when wriggling by the neck.

Without them he and Kain dont show much physical speed. Kratos's physical attacks are faster.

Thats for a better LoZ person to answer. BoE will be helpful, otherwise nothing else.

Originally posted by The Scenario
http://www.lufiaworld.com/files/minishcap/official/link-gust-jar.gif

Originally posted by BloodRain
Without them he and Kain dont show much physical speed. Kratos's physical attacks are faster.

Thats for a better LoZ person to answer. BoE will be helpful, otherwise nothing else.

Not his reaction however, so far his reaction is the same as any human. Kain can react and slash in 0.2/0.3, Kratos has never done that. And thats false, Kain can move over that distance when he strikes moebius in >0.2, its damn fast. Faster than Kratos has moved who just lumbers about, prob faster than link as well.

Not that impressive, his speed and control with the chain is plenty fast. Speed isnt in ethers favour. Like I said, he has to overcome time powers first.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Not that impressive, his speed and control with the chain is plenty fast. Speed isnt in ethers favour. Like I said, he has to overcome time powers first.

He has to overcome being mind controlled, blood showered or time powers and if by the luck of PIS he gets past that, he gets his soul ripped.

Didnt want to get into mind/blood for the above boss thing. Time powers have less objections (and im a fan of time powers lol)

Oh and besides our previous soul resistance debate, Kratos has actually resisted his soul being taken out. Best to Time+Stab till death.

Kain's time powers are pathetic. They cannot concievably slow either character to where Kain has an advantage, and SK does not benefit from them. Kain's even slightly slowed himself. GJ neglecting that, BT.

Wrong, they would make Kratos and Link slow to a crawl, they would not even be able to hardly move. Kain is not slowed, it only appeared that way in the video i provided due to distortion.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Didnt want to get into mind/blood for the above boss thing. Time powers have less objections (and im a fan of time powers lol)

Oh and besides our previous soul resistance debate, Kratos has actually resisted his soul being taken out. Best to Time+Stab till death.


If your refering to Hades, not really. It was a player controlled event where Hades uses a method of soul stealing completly different to Kains that Kratos has not encountered. One hit then.

Scenes like that count here. Its been said before.

It counts sure, when did I say it didnt count? I just said he uses a method completly unique to Kains, Kratos has not defended against Kains technique or anything like it. Hades uses hooks to pull a soul almost physically from the body.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Wrong, they would make Kratos and Link slow to a crawl, they would not even be able to hardly move.

Is this Defiance-Kain?

Akuma busts them both.

Originally posted by iChaos
Is this Defiance-Kain?

Akuma busts them both.

Yes,

And he may well do, but I dont see him doing it before Kain kills all 3 of them, including his teammase with a blood shower/time slow combo.

Then ScreamPaste is right, then.

Nice joke, BT

Kratos turns Kain and SK to stone while Link gets plastered on milk waiting for the next match.

^a legit possibility.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Kratos turns Kain and SK to stone while Link gets plastered on milk waiting for the next match.

^a legit possibility.


Nah, he has a higher chance of turning Link, his own teammate to stone with the Gorgons head.

Kain uses the same teleport in the other vid and kills them both, if he wants to make sure their easily taken care of he just pops up repel shield and time AOE. They have nothing to stop this.

Originally posted by iChaos
Nice joke, BT


No joke, Kain would kill them all with blood shower, only one power he could use to kill them all ofc. Lightning call, mind control, soul powers and inspire hate would all do the trick, he could also prob use Tk to restrain either of them with ease as well, or to send their blood to nasty places .

Actually they do.

Kratos turns Kain to stone, or cuts his head off, the time aoe is so pathetic it's a non-factor. Link gets drunk. If Kain's dumb enough to try something on Link, he just shoots him, or stabs him.

Nah, Its a short ranged attack determined by a pretty predictable aim, the slow Kratos would be waving around a huge Gorgon head hoping to turn someone to stone only to see Kains sword sticking through his chest in a blur a moment later. have you played GoW 1 or 2?

Links too slow to shoot or stab anyone certainly under the effects of time aoe.

0.015 second sword thrust disagrees.

The time slow is truly pathetic, and Kain's a slow ass anyway compared to these two very capable characters.

Not that Kain's even strong enough to hurt either one with the reaver.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
0.015 second sword thrust disagrees.

The time slow is truly pathetic, and Kain's a slow ass anyway compared to these two very capable characters.


You mean a 0.2 spin? hes never thrust at 0.015, and he would have percieve at 0.5 in reaction time to an opponent behind him. Never done it.

Thats actually a lie, the time slow is great for slowing down an already very slow pair. Their 0.5 human perception times would be multiplied by Kains slow. They prob wont even percieve whos sword has just sliced their frozen staring faces in half.

Raziels strength> and multiplied by the edge of a swords PSI says otherwise. Neither are really that durable tbh, Kratos more so although I will see his new feats in GoW 3 tomorrow.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Resisted Soul stealing. Can hurt intangible beings with the BoO. Kain stands no chance against Link and Kratos.

If I remember correctly, he was able to hurt intangible beings without the Blade (CoO).

Originally posted by Burning thought
Nah, Its a short ranged attack determined by a pretty predictable aim, the slow Kratos would be waving around a huge Gorgon head hoping to turn someone to stone only to see Kains sword sticking through his chest in a blur a moment later. have you played GoW 1 or 2?

Links too slow to shoot or stab anyone certainly under the effects of time aoe. Kain is not that fast. Plus Kratos have already dealt with enemies with teleportation. plus with all their equipment Kratos and Link turn giant and body slams Kain.

Giant invisble intangible TP Link with golden gauntlets FTW. haermm

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Giant invisble intangible TP Link with golden gauntlets FTW. haermm Kain will never see it coming.

Originally posted by Phanteros
Kain will never see it coming.


EG was invisible and intangible, Kain can now strike him and see him.....see the correlation?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Giant invisble intangible TP Link with golden gauntlets FTW. haermm


And to think he dies exactly the same way despite these powers.

Originally posted by Phanteros
Kain is not that fast. Plus Kratos have already dealt with enemies with teleportation. plus with all their equipment Kratos and Link turn giant and body slams Kain.

Yes he is, more than fast enough for these two. Kains beaten a planet sized entity, their paltry increase in size mean nothing.

A planet size entity lacked on to the ground so Kain can well on his not so big tentacles he seemed smaller than that. Plus Kain order to even See EG he needed purification.

Originally posted by Phanteros
A planet size entity lacked on to the ground so Kain can well on his not so big tentacles he seemed smaller than that. Plus Kain order to even See EG he needed purification.

lacked on to the ground? wut?

Yes and hes been purified, this is current Kain in this thread by default. Thus, after the EG fight.

latched

Thats not really true.....have you played Defiance? or LoK?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats not really true.....have you played Defiance? or LoK? Yes I did but my memory is hazy, but I recall that when you fought him he was mainly latched to the ground like a tick.

He was not latched.....he is vast and just happened to be in that part of the area. He was not "stuck" to the ground as you seem to be implying. He burrows deeper into the world after Kain defeats him.

Originally posted by Burning thought
He was not latched.....he is vast and just happened to be in that part of the area. He was not "stuck" to the ground as you seem to be implying. He burrows deeper into the world after Kain defeats him. So he smaller than the planet because he needed to burrow deeper. If he was the size of it he shouldn't be able to burrow at all. and he was latched in that area hence why i said he was a tick.

Originally posted by Phanteros
So he smaller than the planet because he needed to burrow deeper. If he was the size of it he shouldn't be able to burrow at all. and he was latched in that area hence why i said he was a tick.

The part Kain faced was smaller than the planet, the EG covers the whole of Nosgoth. Hes not 100% equel to the mass of the planet. Well you were wrong, theres no mension of "latching" which is why it does not make sense, he was just a large mass and is sitting there. He also can regenerate and multiply his limbs at will like a Hydra replaces its heads.

But can Kain see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch?

no, but perhaps that will be the next power he gains through evolution.

Originally posted by iChaos
But can Kain see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch?
'cos kids are stupid? :/

Originally posted by Phanteros
1. Di Dante and War
2. Dante Sparda and Vincent Valentine
3. Illidan Stormrage and Raziel
4. Akuma and Kain
5. Sora and Mario
6. Starkiller and NG Ryu
7.Cloud and Zack Fair
8. Samus and Imperfect Iron Man


They can attack them in any order. All equipment accessible.

1. While they can be tough opponents, Kratos now has the Hades Claws which will pull out War's soul if he decides to go Devil Trigger.. Dante can match Link's invincibility with his own but he will be double-teamed in the end and get killed.

2. Kratos wins by using hope and barely wins while Link is already slaughtered by either character. Otherwise, they both end here.

3. Got no idea of either character.

4. Akuma is getting murdered by Kratos who can prevent himself from being crushed by Cronos' hands and survive a fall from somewhere in Mt. Olympus to Hades without injury. From what I know about Kain, he can give Link a fight but Kratos will butcher him.

5. Sora is the main threat here with his Final Form, Magnega, and Stopega. Link will need to use the Phantom Hourglass to even the odds and Hope Kratos may beat him, maybe. Mario is barely a threat since both Kratos and Link have AoE magic and Mario's star power will be useless against the Hermes' boots and Magic Cape. Plus, Helios' head will blind him leaving vulnerable to getting arrowed in the head.

6. Starkiller is gonna be a pain and would kill Kratos. I don't know if the power of hope will work here. Link can withstand Starkiller's force but he won't survive the lightsaber or Ryu. The magic cape or invincibility won't work since he's to slow to tag either one of them and his AoE aren't good enough. The only thing Link could use is the Phantom Hourglass but he'll probably be pegged with shuriken by the time it's activated. The gauntlet ends here.

Since when did he fall from Mt. Olympus to Hades?

Why stop at 6?

Run the numbers, Kain can't do it.

Originally posted by iChaos
Since when did he fall from Mt. Olympus to Hades?

SPOILERS!

After Pandora reached to the top of the Labyrinth. Then again, that was Hades..

Originally posted by BloodRain
Why stop at 6?

Because Force Crush is cheap.

Originally posted by iChaos
Since when did he fall from Mt. Olympus to Hades?

GoW 3.

^I know that. But yeah...thanks.

At the time, you didn't. You never replied to S_V's post, so I felt like reinforcing the point .