Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Discuss.

I don't really know much about Gamora, but i say she KOs Logan.

Originally posted by Survivor19
I don't really know much about Gamora, but i say she KOs Logan.

Without a doubt.

Even if Wolverine is a bad ass in his own right, and that he's a master martial artist, Gamora is a martial artist on a cosmic scale.

Logan don't stand a chance.

Gamora for the shitstomp.

Logan has already beaten her repeatedly so i'll stick with him..glare

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
Logan has already beaten her repeatedly so i'll stick with him..glare

The one time he cheap-shot her?

aint no rules in combat no such thing as cheap shots or cheating when both are in a combative position and fully engaged

Wolverine for the majority. Gamora doesn't have healing factor feats that would suggest she is capable of fighting through being eviscerated or having a major organ pictured, and even though she is a green chick who lives in space and gives the majority of KMC a boner she doesn't have any skill feats to place her above Wolverine either.

Like I've said many a times uber skilled fighter have many examples of operating outside of the parameters of their attributes by virtue of their skill, Gamora has never done this. She stalemated Thanos once in a sparing match, big deal, a twelve year old Black Widow got the best of Wolverine once in a training season - is Natasha the best ever super MA now? If you are are going to make an outlandish claim that Gamora is the best in Universe, I don't think its too much to ask for some displays of this alleged skill. She's never fought anyone of any significant skill and won (Wolverine beat her already... and hes pretty much the only person of notable skill she has fought), and she's really never done anything outside the parameter of her attributes. She's an amazing fighter because she was trained by Thanos, and alternatively Thanos is an amazing fighter because he trained Gamora. Circular logic that makes no sense? You tell me.

Batman, Cap, and virtually all the street level MAs are peak humans or around there, who have on occasion beaten and damaged the most powerful and dangerous of enemies by virtue of their skill. They operate above and beyond the limits of their bodies. Gamora doesn't. Relative to her attributes I've never seen her do anything half as impressive as the things street level MA's do on a regular basis.

I think - for what ever reason - its just a popular opinion that if you are operating in space you are by default better than earth bound heroes... which is absurd. I mean, theres a reason that Gamora knew who Wolverine was and he didn't know her, because when your the best there is at what you do, lesser people are always looking to test themselves against you.

Wolverine rapes gamora

Gamora rapes Wolverine with a strap on.

Gamora takes it, it's impressive of Logan to even put up a fight.

Gamora. Not even a question.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Gamora. Not even a question. I bet you dont read much wolverine.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I mean, theres a reason that Gamora knew who Wolverine was and he didn't know her He's dumb.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I bet you dont read much wolverine. You lost the bet. Congratulations.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You lost the bet. Congratulations. then why would you say logan doesn't stand a chance? you sound like you don't know the character at all...no offense.

^ Because I know both characters. And Gamora wins. You learned something today.

lol

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Because I know both characters. And Gamora wins. You learned something today. is gamora tougher than savage hulk?

^ You don't need to be tougher than Savage Hulk to beat Wolverine. Next?

Originally posted by Starscream M
is gamora tougher than savage hulk?

Don't bother. She lives in space... for some people thats enough for her to win, and they can't be reasoned with. Why you ask? Space is awesome I guess. Its where the moon lives.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ You don't need to be tougher than Savage Hulk to beat Wolverine. Next? well, considering logan can hold his own against savage hulk, you actually do.

second, logan could one hit kill gamora, the same cannot be said the otherway around.

are you assuming she gets weapons or not?

^ Has Wolverine been beaten by someone who was less strong than Savage Hulk? Sorry if I ask a dumb obvious question. Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Don't bother. She lives in space... for some people thats enough for her to win, and they can't be reasoned with. Why you ask? Space is awesome I guess. Its where the moon lives. Being in space is not enough for a character to win against Wolverine. Good thing Gamora is equipped to beat Wolverine in addition to living in space though.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Don't bother. She lives in space... for some people thats enough for her to win, and they can't be reasoned with. Why you ask? Space is awesome I guess. Its where the moon lives. space means jack diddly in comics. people regularly 'speak' in space even though there's supposed to be no air.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Being in space is not enough for a character to win against Wolverine. Good thing Gamora is equipped to beat Wolverine in addition to living in space though.

She lacks any healing factor feats that suggest she can take what Wolverine will dish out, or any speed / or skill feats that suggest she could avoid his attacks for any significant amount of time. So I guess I'll need you to tell me what - other than being from space, of course - is she bringing to the table to beat Wolverine?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Has Wolverine been beaten by someone who was less strong than Savage Hulk? has gamora ever survived disembowelment or decapitation? sorry if that's a dumb question.

Originally posted by Starscream M
space means jack diddly in comics. people regularly 'speak' in space even though there's supposed to be no air.

You don't need to tell me that. I don't get a boner from space camp and capri sun juice boxes, so I don't think being form space is enough to beat Wolverine.

Originally posted by Starscream M
has gamora ever survived disembowelment or decapitation? sorry if that's a dumb question. It is, and you should be.

Gamora via ownage

Originally posted by Mindset
He's dumb.

He doesn't have a Sp(f)acebook account. Get it? Huh huh? Facebook... like only in space though.

...

...

...

@Srank

lets not forget that Logan was the go to guy to various near extinct race of aliens who were being held on a prison planet to save them...

also logan is the Broods bogeyman to make their younglings behave...

seems to me more ppl in the universe know logans reputation and fear him more then anyone fearing gamora...

dgrin

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
@Srank

lets not forget that Logan was the go to guy to various near extinct race of aliens who were being held on a prison planet to save them...

also logan is the Broods bogeyman to make their younglings behave...

seems to me more ppl in the universe know logans reputation and fear him more then anyone fearing gamora... That's false.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
She lacks any healing factor feats that suggest she can take what Wolverine will dish out, or any speed / or skill feats that suggest she could avoid his attacks for any significant amount of time. So I guess I'll need you to tell me what - other than being from space, of course - is she bringing to the table to beat Wolverine? Insane healing factor isn't required to beat Wolverine. He's been beaten by foes without it. Sorry if you can't think outside such narrow concepts. Originally posted by Starscream M
has gamora ever survived disembowelment or decapitation? sorry if that's a dumb question. Has Wolverine always managed to disembowel and decapitate all his opponents without fail? You're forgiven for asking a stupid question.

Originally posted by Mindset
dgrin Thats your pic...

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Insane healing factor isn't required to beat Wolverine. He's been beaten by foes without it. Sorry if you can't think outside such narrow concepts. Has Wolverine always managed to disembowel and decapitate all his opponents without fail? You're forgiven for asking a stupid question. you condescending arrogant pr%$k...you haven't provided any reasons why gamora would beat logan yet!

^ Is that what you want? Thought you were asking me stupid questions for sh1ts and g1ggles.

This thread is over by the way. After my post on page 1, all the subsequent posts have either taken my concerns into account and realized that of course Wolverine will win, or ignored them out right, realizing their is no rebuttal to my argument because I was right, and therefor making the only way to for them to rationalize Gamora winning and remain faithful to the awesomeness of Space, Spacemen and all of the awesomeness of Outerspace-ness, is pretend I didn't say anything. Sadly, it will continue as such till the end of time. The sexy terrificness of space is too much for the rational mind!

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Is that what you want? Thought you were asking me stupid questions for sh1ts and g1ggles. I wanted you to back your statement up. You made it sound like logan would get owned and have no shot at winning, yet have not stated any actual reasons why.

hmm.. i see you are using the Cartman approach,,,

but what else can one do and i am to tired to make an adequate defense right now.. so i am just being funny...

@Shrank,

1)What has Wolvie ever done without a healing factor, super senses or adamantium? What more powerful opponent has he beaten without those attributes?

2) According to your definition of "skilled", only Bucky, Frank Castle and Ronin are truly skilled.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Insane healing factor isn't required to beat Wolverine. He's been beaten by foes without it. /B]

Foes with abilities that Gamora doesn't have.

She is a melee fighter without a viable ranged option, a healing factor significant enough to compensate for the damage Wolverine will dish out during combat, durability high enough to turn Wolverine's claws or a significant speed or skill advantage that would allow her to avoid him for any substantial amout of time. So... how does she win?

wolverine's beaten rulk...who before meeting logan, herbed thor, watcher, green hulk, abom, etc.

Wolverine's aura > Gamora's

Gamora has a healing factor. She has Gorgon level speed at least. Maybe you should check up on the character a little bit.

Originally posted by dmills
Gamora has a healing factor. She has Gorgon level speed at least. Maybe you should check up on the character a little bit. her hf is nothing compared to logan, and it wont help against pierce damage that logan is capable of inflicting

Originally posted by dmills
@Shrank,

1)What has Wolvie ever done without a healing factor, super senses or adamantium? What more powerful opponent has he beaten without those attributes?

2) According to your definition of "skilled", only Bucky, Frank Castle and Ronin are truly skilled.

He speed blitzed Domina, who had the collective powers of the Warclan and who wreaked an entire rosters of X-Men (including Colossus if I'm not mistaken), and worked her over with just his fists.

He's also beaten Shang Chi / Daredevil in a handful of panels. One of those he was bone claw, and both of them where over before his healing factor could come into play.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I wanted you to back your statement up. You made it sound like logan would get owned and have no shot at winning, yet have not stated any actual reasons why. Is that what you were doing when you responded to my first statement as follows: Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Gamora. Not even a question. Originally posted by Starscream M
I bet you dont read much wolverine. I don't have telepathy. And it was difficult to look past the stupidity of your stupid questions to se what you were attempting. Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Foes with abilities that Gamora doesn't have.

She is a melee fighter without a viable ranged option, a healing factor significant enough to compensate for the damage Wolverine will dish out during combat, durability high enough to turn Wolverine's claws or a significant speed or skill advantage that would allow her to avoid him for any substantial amout of time. So... how does she win? Yes, and Gamora possess abilities that those foes don't have either. Thank you Captain Obvious.

She wins by being more capable in nearly every category you touched upon. News to you, I trust?

Originally posted by Starscream M
wolverine's beaten rulk...who before meeting logan, herbed thor, watcher, green hulk, abom, etc.
beating rulk doesn't mean he can beat everyone who can't beat him.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

She wins by being more capable in nearly every category you touched upon. News to you, I trust? most of logan's foes are more superior in nearly every category...guess what, Logan still comes out on top more often than not. He's the best at what he does.

Rulk would've owned gamora, yet he got owned by logan. What say you?

Originally posted by jalek moye
beating rulk doesn't mean he can beat everyone who can't beat him. yeah but it shows logan can handle guys who are far superior to him in many attributes.

Originally posted by Starscream M
most of logan's foes are more superior in nearly every category...guess what, Logan still comes out on top more often than not. He's the best at what he does.

Rulk would've owned gamora, yet he got owned by logan. What say you? False and false.

Originally posted by dmills
Gamora has a healing factor. She has Gorgon level speed at least. Maybe you should check up on the character a little bit.

Once again - and this is the same problem you had with the Drax fight so please try to pay attention - she doesn't have any feats that place those abilities on the same level as Wolverine. She has never healed from any significant wound during the course of a fight without have to to stop and recuperate, she has also never displayed any speed above that of Wolverine, and living in space doesn't compensate for that.

Logan has faced many various ppl without his healing factor he actually goes beyond what the cream of the crop street lvler MA can reach..

need i remind ppl when he fought a thousand man army of tech, and sin men with a burned out healing factor? i believe he only took one hit and he was dodging, using MA, showed his strength and his reflex skills..

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Is that what you were doing when you responded to my first statement as follows: I don't have telepathy. And it was difficult to look past the stupidity of your stupid questions to se what you were attempting. Yes, and Gamora possess abilities that those foes don't have either. Thank you Captain Obvious.

She wins by being more capable in nearly every category you touched upon. News to you, I trust?

I'm sure the fanfic you are getting your info from is very fun read, but I think I'm just going to go of whats been shown in the comics.

^ The comics that show Gamora would win? Ok. Originally posted by Starscream M
most of logan's foes are more superior in nearly every category...guess what, Logan still comes out on top more often than not. He's the best at what he does.

Rulk would've owned gamora, yet he got owned by logan. What say you? And Wolverine's lost to opponents who are more superior to him in nearly every way, and Wolverine has lost to opponents who are more superior in some respect sand not others, and Wolverine has lost to opponents who are not superior in any way.

Getting thrown into the East River = winning? durredhulk

i feel ashamed that i completely forgot to mention Domina which is one hell of a feat lay to claim for an overpowered and skilled fighter...

i remember that the X-men watched in shock screaming logan was doing it...something the entire team couldnt do.. logan just watched and had his team fall back as he shoved them and brought the adamantium enforced pain up close and personal to domina...

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
Logan has faced many various ppl without his healing factor he actually goes beyond what the cream of the crop street lvler MA can reach..

need i remind ppl when he fought a thousand man army of tech, and sin men with a burned out healing factor? i believe he only took one hit and he was dodging, using MA, showed his strength and his reflex skills..

He also beat Deathbird - who is extremely skilled - when he was half dead and his healing factor was all but nonexistent. The issue even stated the only thing keep him alive was sheer force of will and that he was a shadow of his former self.

Recap of the argument from both sides thus far:

Wolverine side: Gamora needs to melee Wolverine, since she has no viable ranged options, but she lacks a healing factor significant enough to compensate for Wolverine's claws, durability turn them, or a speed / skill edge significant enough to avoid them. So Wolverine will win.

Gamora side: Gamora will win.

Don't get me wrong, Team Gamora, it is a very compelling argument... but maybe... I don't know... you might want to try supporting it with something? Just a thought.

funny thing ppl are asking for feats with ppl of similar skill of Gamora and ppl have and ppl seem to get amnesia when you mention one of those gamora class ppl he fought was her more then once and each time ended on the floor

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
funny thing ppl are asking for feats with ppl of similar skill of Gamora and ppl have and ppl seem to get amnesia when you mention one of those gamora class ppl he fought was her more then once and each time ended on the floor

he fought her multiple times?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Recap of the argument from both sides thus far:

Wolverine side: Gamora needs to melee Wolverine, since she has no viable ranged options, but she lacks a healing factor significant enough to compensate for Wolverine's claws, durability turn them, or a speed / skill edge significant enough to avoid them. So Wolverine will win.

Gamora side: Gamora will win.

Don't get me wrong, Team Gamora, it is a very compelling argument... but maybe... I don't know... you might want to try supporting it with something? Just a thought. Might want to read some Gamora comics? Just a thought.

Originally posted by jalek moye
he fought her multiple times? Irrc he fought her twice once during infinity war and once during the Infinity Crusade.. i am not sure if he face her more then once in the same story arc which would make it three but, irrc two distinct moments..

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
funny thing ppl are asking for feats with ppl of similar skill of Gamora and ppl have and ppl seem to get amnesia when you mention one of those gamora class ppl he fought was her more then once and each time ended on the floor

It's a space thing. People will deny it because they don't like getting called out on it, but they are all just working under the assumption that she is better because she operates in space with nothing concrete to back their opinion. Its the same thing that was happing in the current Drax vs. Wolverine thread. There are no feats that support him winning that fight, but it doesn't matter, dude be from space (thats the home of asteroids btw) so he gets the edge.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Might want to read some Gamora comics? Just a thought.

I've read virtually all of them to my knowledge, I just haven't read the fanfics your basing your arguments off of.

Anyway, both know I'm right. If there was any merit to your arguement you would have provid some feats or examples to back your claim. Those examples don't exist. I know it, you kno... well... I know it at least, I'm not sure what exactly you know about Gamora. What ever it is though, it certainly isn't even remotely accurate.

^ Smells like horsesh1t. Watch where you step.

*UPDATED* Recap of the argument from both sides thus far:

Wolverine side: Gamora needs to melee Wolverine, since she has no viable ranged options, but she lacks a healing factor significant enough to compensate for Wolverine's claws, durability turn them, or a speed / skill edge significant enough to avoid them. So Wolverine will win.

Gamora side: Gamora win, you don't read comics.

Truly some compelling stuff, Team Gamora. Water proof case your making so far. Nice work.

^ Well you don't read comics with Gamora. What can I say? You have a complete misconception of her, her history and her capabilities. It'd be funny if it weren't so pathetic.

...

Oh what the heck, I'll laugh anyway --

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Well you don't read comics with Gamora. What can I say? You have a complete misconception of her, her history and her capabilities. It'd be funny if it weren't so pathetic.

...

Oh what the heck, I'll laugh anyway --



Translation: Gamora has no feats to prove you wrong so I will talk out of my ass for a while and hope no one catches on.

*whisper* Excellent strategy. I think its working. *whisper*

^ No. Seriously. You don't know sh1t about Gamora. And it shows.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ No. Seriously. You don't know sh1t about Gamora. And it shows.

Sticking to your guns? No point and changing your game now I guess. You've already made it pretty clear you've got nothing, and yet you keep posting! Very admirable, sir! Why, if you let not knowing what you where talking about keep you from posting, we'd never hear from you. Stand firm despite your general lack of knowledge! Don't let them back you into a corner with facts! For what are facts really other than something for you to ignore? Haha, Show them your stubbornness! You will never back down! You are a beacon sir, a beacon I say! Take a bow, oh king of fanboys, rally the masses with your stalwart example of absolute certainty in the face of proof you are wrong! You shine like the sun sir. An inspiration! Truely.

/salute

So Gamora wins?

Originally posted by Mindset
So Gamora wins?

In the minds of the sad and delusional.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Sticking to your guns? No point and changing your game now I guess. You've already made it pretty clear you've got nothing, and yet you keep posting! Very admirable, sir! Why, if you let not knowing what you where talking about keep you from posting, we'd never hear from you. Stand firm despite your general lack of knowledge! Don't let them back you into a corner with facts! For what are facts really other than something for you to ignore? Haha, Show them your stubbornness! You will never back down! You are a beacon sir, a beacon I say! Take a bow, oh king of fanboys, rally the masses with your stalwart example of absolute certainty in the face of proof you are wrong! You shine like the sun sir. An inspiration! Truely.

/salute And you don't know sh1t about Gamora and talk like you do. And that's stupid. You are debating in the worst possible way, i.e., talking about stuff you don't know while copping an attitude.

/finger salute

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And you don't know sh1t about Gamora and talk like you do. And that's stupid. You are debating in the worst possible way, i.e., talking about stuff you don't know while copping an attitude.

/finger salute

The very picture of tact and decorum. Ever the gentleman as usual.

What I know is this: she doesn't heal fast enough, isn't durable enough, skilled enough or fast enough to beat Wolverine in melee combat. It's just a fact. It upsets you, but you are going to have to come to terms with it I'm afraid. Very upsetting I'm sure. But don't worry I have something that will keep you busy for the rest of your life!

*Gamora Scavenger Hunt:

1 scan of Gamora healing fast enough to compensate for the damage can dish out in the course of fight.
1 scan of Gamora exhibiting durability necessary to turn Wolverine's claws.
1 scan of Gamora displaying the speed necessary to avoid Wolverine for any significant amount of time.
1 scan of Gamora displaying the skill necessary to avoid Wolverine for any significant amount of time.

*EDITORS NOTE: These examples do not exist, these Scavenger Hunt, is purely to keep OneDumbGo's mind occupied.

^ And all those things aren't required to beat Wolverine. Try coming out of that narrow hole you've dug for yourself that prevents you from embracing anything but your own preconceptions.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Like I've said many a times uber skilled fighter have many examples of operating outside of the parameters of their attributes by virtue of their skill, Gamora has never done this. Wait, so, to recap:

Gamora loses because she's faster and stronger than Wolverine, and therefore less skilled?

Lawl?

When has she needed to perform outside of her attribute level? Also, she's affected opponents with her blows that her strength suggests she can't. She's also mastered a significantly larger number of martial arts than Wolverine, and has consistently performed better against more powerful opponents with her powers and skills than he has.

Unlike unskilled bricks, she can follow up each and every blow and KO Logan. To suggest that Logan wins is to suggest that she will never tag him, which is ridiculous.

@shrank,

What's funny is that we actually can bring up the feats to back up our claims. She has fought class 100 beings and held her own, she has the speed feats, and she has the strength and healing feats. But we also know classic fall back response. "OMG so she beatz a bunch of nobodyz!" ""gymnist, super computers, chess!" "he faces da hulk!" As you did in the Drax thread.

Gamora has an inherent disadvantage in any feat based battle because she's a cosmic character who fights lesser known (non overexposed) characters. So contrary to your banter, no one believes she'd win just because she's in space.

BTW, Anybody have the scan where Wolverine stabbed Gamora while she was distracted and then later commented that her healing factor must be as good as his? Thanks in advance.

per upgrade, strength and speed are gamora's, skill is gamora's, innate defense is wolverine's and so is the offense since the claws are a one way ticket to hell for even her (provided...you know) and you can't disarm him......

i kinda feel (no homo) what srank is saying, but gamora might just hit him in the neck with some deathblow from xetyrg--17 or some shit and take him down. that's how she roles.

The fight between him and her was so long ago I can't even remember how it all went down. Can someone post the scans?

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Gamora loses because she's faster and stronger than Wolverine, and therefore less skilled?


No she loses for a combination of reasons a few of them being that she isn't fast enough or skill enough to avoid Wolverine's claws, nor does she heal fast enough to make up for any damage she will ineveitbly take.

As to why she is less skilled, I guess I'll cover that below... again

Originally posted by Original Smurph
When has she needed to perform outside of her attribute level? Also, she's affected opponents with her blows that her strength suggests she can't. She's also mastered a significantly larger number of martial arts than Wolverine, and has consistently performed better against more powerful opponents with her powers and skills than he has.


Precisely my point. She's never operated outside the bounds of her attributes. Have you ever, one single time, seen her do something that you don't think Captain America, Batman or Daredevil could do give the same attributes as Gamora? I don't think you have. She's never beaten any one of significant skill. In fact the only note worthy fighter she's faced is Wolverine, and he beat her. She's never done anything outside the parameters of her abilities which is recruitment for super skilled fighters. She's the ****ing Sentry of fighters. He has the power of a million exploding suns? ZOMG! Gamora knows every MA in the Milkyway Galaxy? Zomg! But what has she done with it? Oh thats right... nothing. Don't mater though, chicks form space, so lets give her the benifit of the doubt!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Original Smurph
unskilled bricks, she can follow up each and every blow and KO Logan. To suggest that Logan wins is to suggest that she will never tag him, which is ridiculous.



The opposite my friend, to suggest that Gamora would win is to suggest that Wolverine would never tag her. Wolverine can shrug off the best Gamora can dish out, she can't. It's just a fact. She doesn't have any healing feats that suggest she can take the kind of damage Wolverine dishes, out and still keep fighting, where as Wolverine has taken far worse than Gamora throws out with a smile on his face and a spring in his step.

@psycho,
IIRC, hasn't she shown the skill to block/deflect his claws with her knives in one of their previous encounters. I'll have to do a web search or something cause I swear I remember that.

working on it, in the meantime, here's this:

http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Gamora/?action=view&current=gamoracyborg.jpg

first upgrade



she packs a punch

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/6779/warlockandtheinfinitywapr3.jpg

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/9818/goodshotvt4.jpg

if it were as good as his she wouldnt have passed out or we can argue that logan have possibly simply gut checked her without the claws making it worse...


lets also point out the fact what ppl said she cant win a scan feat war b/c she is lacking in that department hence the win logically goes back to logan since he does have feats to support his ability to win..

also being stronger has never bn an issue to logan when facing an opponent and Gamora style fight is less to do with strength and more to do with finesse and stabbing her opponent...

also no one is saying she will never hit him we are saying he can take more then her when it comes to damage soak... which is true..

also consistently perform better my @$$ she has a few wins against known characters and she lost twice to logan.. nothing to say she can win without a single shred of evidence and character history..

might as well say she wins because she isnt a developed character and has a small list of loss to win ratio that are in the dozen range while saying logan loses because he has lost a dozen times in over a 100 some fights...

Originally posted by dmills
The fight between him and her was so long ago I can't even remember how it all went down. Can someone post the scans?

They clashed blades (daggers / claws respectively), Gamora got distracted, Wolverine stabbed her. She went down. End of fight. Later Wolverine speculated that she must have a healing factor as fast as him... only (like I've been saying this only time), Wolverine wouldn't go down from a puncture wound to the stomach. Gamora's healing factor may insure that after the fight is over she will be up and running again about 1000 times faster than you or I, but it isn't fast enough to compensate for a significant amount of damage during the course of the fight itself, which is a huge liability.

OMG, you're not going to seriously argue that he didn't stab her are you? Please don't. That would put you in booger eater turf which is the highest (or lowest depending on your pov) level of fanboy.

so everyone sees it:

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/8195/possiblehealingfactor2aw9.jpg

moments later....

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/1937/possiblehealingfactor5zk0.jpg

imo, the whole "not killing women" thing kinda inhibited the artist teams intent on showing the blades, cause he later says (in the second scan) that her healing factor must be as good as his.

and you can see blades popped on his other hand in the first scan, though the colour palette is messed up and has the claws are the same colour as his gloves.

omg you see how US Agent phucked Wolverine up.

He loses.

Originally posted by Mindset
omg you see how US Agent phucked Wolverine up.

He loses.

Clearly he was playing possum

@shrank,
Well that touches on one of your challenges. She showed combat speed enough to block/deflect his claws. One could just as easily argue that it's unlikely that Gamora gets gutted like that.

US agent hit logan in the reset button no choice but to go down but i believe he was rubbing his head a few panels later... fast recovery time.

Originally posted by dmills
@shrank,
Well that touches on one of your challenges. She showed combat speed enough to block/deflect his claws. One could just as easily argue that it's unlikely that Gamora gets gutted like that. that feat goes both ways it could have easily bn logan blocking her as well they both charged each other clashed with blades..

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
She's never operated outside the bounds of her attributes. Have you ever, one single time, seen her do something that you don't think Captain America, Batman or Daredevil could do give the same attributes as Gamora? Cap, Batman and Daredevil can give Wolverine a run for his money. And now you're amping them all to the physical level of Gamora and giving them the Godslayer. And somehow that would make them so much less formidable that Wolverine would now outclass them. Impressive deduction. Originally posted by Wild Shadow
if it were as good as his she wouldnt have passed out or we can argue that logan simply gut checked her without the claws making it worse...

... she lost twice to logan When did Gamora pass out? She went down and clutched her gut. Wolverine got laid out by two shield shots from USAgent. At that point, they're both on the ground. And they both get up before the Sun goes nova when the action cuts back to them. So her healing factor is about as good as giving her the ability to recover just about in the time that Wolverine recovers from getting shield-bashed.

So if Gamora was going toe-to-toe with Wolverine and then Strong Guy clocked Wolverine from behind, that's a win for Gamora over Wolverine? And then, when Gamora is going toe-to-toe again with Wolverine and then Wolverine gets distracted and Gamora stabs him in the heart with Godslayer, laying him out for about as long as she's unconscious after getting shield-bashed by USAgent... Gamora wins?

Originally posted by dmills
@shrank,
Well that touches on one of your challenges. She showed combat speed enough to block/deflect his claws. One could just as easily argue that it's unlikely that Gamora gets gutted like that.

lol

He's not going to walk up to her and one shot her, she's not some random nobody. Of course she is going to be able to parry and dodge some of his attacks, just not enough to matter. Wolverine is faster and he is more skilled, so more of his attacks or going to get through Gamora's guard than vica versa and his heal factor is faster so any damage she lands will be negated, while his will slowly build up. Not to mention Wolverine can potentially end the fight with one lucky blow, Gamora can't.

Gamora stated she couldnt take out thing and get past his defense without the help of Sasquatch some skill, speed clearly not equal to logan with how he handles thing.

minus for gamora plus for logan..

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/3709/thingew8.jpg

My God the 90's sucked. That was back in the early-mid 90's when every brick was drawn with a body like strong guy. And the coloring was terrible.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
Gamora stated she couldnt take out thing and get past his defense without the help of Sasquatch some skill, speed clearly not equal to logan with how he handles thing.

minus for gamora plus for logan.. Yes. Nerve-striking Thing's chest with her fingers and one-shotting him into unconsciousness clearly suggests Gamora sucks...

dur

And Sasquatch said he was no where as strong as Grimm.

Both are false.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Cap, Batman and Daredevil can give Wolverine a run for his money. And now you're amping them all to the physical level of Gamora and giving them the Godslayer. And somehow that would make them so much less formidable that Wolverine would now outclass them. Impressive deduction. When did Gamora pass out? She went down and clutched her gut. Wolverine got laid out by two shield shots from USAgent. At that point, they're both on the ground. And they both get up before the Sun goes nova when the action cuts back to them. So her healing factor is about as good as giving her the ability to recover just about in the time that Wolverine recovers from getting shield-bashed.

So if Gamora was going toe-to-toe with Wolverine and then Strong Guy clocked Wolverine from behind, that's a win for Gamora over Wolverine? And then, when Gamora is going toe-to-toe again with Wolverine and then Wolverine gets distracted and Gamora stabs him in the heart with Godslayer, laying him out for about as long as she's unconscious after getting shield-bashed by USAgent... Gamora wins?

Neither Cap, Batman or Daredevil can give Wolverine a run for his money...

Anyway there are two or there panels of Gamora sprawled out motionlessly on the ground after Wolverine stabbed her. She went down for the count. The same thing wouldn't have happened to Wolverine had he been the one who was stabbed in the gut. Hell, he wouldn't have even went down if he was stabbed in the heart like your example... hell he once had his heart ripped out and eaten, then was blasted with nuclear blast and he still killed the guy who did it.

Also, Wolverine had gotten blitzed by Wonderman moments earlier in that very issue, its arguable that his durability wasn't 100%.

Originally posted by dmills
My God the 90's sucked. That was back in the early-mid 90's when every brick was drawn with a body like strong guy. And the coloring was terrible.

http://i3.iofferphoto.com/img/item/302/473/66/o_xforce1.jpg

90s!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...

...

...

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Yes. Nerve-striking Thing's chest with her fingers and one-shotting him into unconsciousness clearly suggests Gamora sucks...

dur nope i actually admire the gamora character and find her nerve blows impressive.. the bad thing is she couldnt do it on her own without help clearly replicating it on a skilled fighter would be just as unlikely as she herself claimed it to be on thing.....

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Neither Cap, Batman or Daredevil can give Wolverine a for his money...Comedy gold. And an amped Cap, Batman and Daredevil on the level of Gamora's physicality are outclassed by Wolverine as well. You're the gift that keeps on giving.Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Anyway there are two or there panels of Gamora sprawled out motionlessly on the ground after Wolverine stabbed her. She went down for the count. The same thing wouldn't have happened to Wolverine had he been the one who was stabbed in the gut. Hell, he wouldn't have even went down if he was stabbed in the heart like your example... hell he once had his heart ripped out and eaten, then was blasted with nuclear blast and he still killed the guy who did it.Yes. She's sprawled out on the ground along with Wolverine who got shield-clonked twice. They lay on the ground together. Until they both got up when the Sun went nova and watched the fake Rapture together. Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Also, Wolverine had gotten blitzed by Wonderman moments earlier in that very issue, its arguable that his durability wasn't 100%.: K. His healing factor can't compensate for several Wonderman shots and two shield bashes. Gotcha.

@wildshadow,
Are we arguing feats by proxy now ? We could go on for days about which character can do whatever to another character that such and such couldn't. That doesn't mean squat.

Gamora

in that story arc his HF wasnt as strong as it grew to be....

post adamantium loss and HF upgrade which never went back to its original lvls they once were

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Comedy gold. And an amped Cap, Batman and Daredevil on the level of Gamora's physicality are outclassed by Wolverine as well. You're the gift that keeps on giving.Yes. She's sprawled out on the ground along with Wolverine who got shield-clonked twice. They lay on the ground together. Until they both got up when the Sun went nova and watched the fake Rapture together. K. His healing factor can't compensate for several Wonderman shots and two shield bashes. Gotcha.

I was talking about standard Cap, Bats and DD. Captain America, Batman and Daredevil are all already faster and more skilled than Gamora, "amped" her level pretty much means class 70, mild healing factor and unbreakable bones. Those fights would end much the same as this one, with none of them being able to take the best Wolverine can dish out and keep fighting.

Luckily its not 1993 anymore and his healing factor is much, much, MUCH faster now I guess?

^ Luckily you're sticking your foot in your mouth and doing a very good job of chewing on it.

Cap, Daredevil, and Batman could all feasibly best Logan one way or another

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Cap, Daredevil, and Batman could all feasibly best Logan one way or another

At what? Chess? Standard fight he'd take them all 10/10. Hell, he'd take the high majority against them all except Cap without his healing factor.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
At what? Chess? Standard fight he'd take them all 10/10. Hell, he'd take the high majority against them all except Cap without his healing factor.



lol?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank


lol?

i doubt they can beat logan at chess either remember what Xavier said he referenced his mind being like multiple chess computers while performing a gold metal routine...

Originally posted by JakeTheBank


lol?

phuck you wild, you ruined everything

Originally posted by JakeTheBank


lol?

There are threads for each them with 100s of pages you can look for my posts in if you are confused. Or you can just ask your self how do any of them possibly beat someone who has shurgged of being puched and kicked across the world with minimal effect.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
There are threads for each them with 100s of pages you can look for my posts in if you are confused.

100 pages of what, pray tell?

10/10 is pretty extreme, imo, and that's putting it lightly.

He's been knocked out plenty. Gorgon kicked his ass, Elektra kicked his ass, Mr. X kicked his ass. To suggest that he'd beat Cap and Bats 10/10 is... just... just...


Are you eating your boogers?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
100 pages of what, pray tell?

10/10 is pretty extreme, imo, and that's putting it lightly.

Wolverine could sit in a chair for six hours while Batman or Daredevil beat him over the head with an Adamantium bat and still beat them 10/10. They have the same odds of beating Wolverine as Wolverine does of beating the Hulk. None. Zero. Maybe they can hang with him in a fight briefly, but they will never have any actual chance of winning.

Or maybe you just don't know who Wolverine is... Is that the problem? Homework time!

Go to your LCD and pick up some back issues! Or failing that DL them I guess, I'm not going to tell you how to download comics, but you have the internet and its easy to figure out. Read these: http://www.comicvine.com/wolverine/29-1440/issues-cover/

Respect thread: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t486007.html

Wow. Does he beat current Iron Fist 10/10 as well?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine could sit in a chair for six hours while Batman or Daredevil beat him over the head with an Adamantium bat and still beat them 10/10. They have the same odds of beating Wolverine as Wolverine does of beating the Hulk. None. Zero. Maybe they can hang with him in a fight briefly, but they will never have any actual chance of winning.

Or maybe you just don't know who Wolverine is... Is that the problem? Homework time!

Go to your LCD and pick up some back issues! Or failing that DL them I guess, I'm not going to tell you how to download comics, but you have the internet and its easy to figure out. Read these: http://www.comicvine.com/wolverine/29-1440/issues-cover/

Respect thread: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t486007.html

...riiiight.

I've read enough Wolverine to know that he doesn't beat any of the aforementioned people 10/10. Maybe if you skew his feats and showings while ignoring theirs, and even then, doubtful. I have no problem with the idea of him getting a majority over any of them. But yeah...10/10?

That's pretty bizarre.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
They have the same odds of beating Wolverine as Wolverine does of beating the Hulk. None. Zero. But haven't you said that Wolverine can take on the Hulk?

Are... are you drunk?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
But haven't you said that Wolverine can take on the Hulk? Yeah. I could have sworn I saw him say that before.

Originally posted by dmills
He's been knocked out plenty. Gorgon kicked his ass, Elektra kicked his ass, Mr. X kicked his ass. To suggest that he'd beat Cap and Bats 10/10 is... just... just...


Are you eating your boogers?


Gorgon has undefined superhuman abilities and damage soak that puts Wolverine to shame, and makes Gamora look like a sheet of rice paper. If Gamora was Gorgon, Wolverine would have killed her, with those fist two body shots he landed on Gorgon.

Elektra never kicked his ass. She ambushed him while he was A) half dead, B) missing part of his soul and C) already fighting and temporarily incapacitated him.

Mr. X is Frank Tieri PIS quite Frankly. Realistically he posses no threat to Wolverine, so Wolverine is written down to fight him. Also, he only managed to down Wolverine in their first fight, and that is the standard "build the villain up in their first fight to make them appear formidable" affair. Heck Ord and Danger both owned the X-Men the first time the fought, and yet Wolverine held his own against both of them later.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
But haven't you said that Wolverine can take on the Hulk?

Are... are you drunk?

No. Wolverine can't beat the Hulk. He's done it, but that's PIS. Hulk has healing factor that will repair any damage does to him nearly instantly, nothing Wolverine can do other than fight him until his own healing factor is overloaded. He can give him a fight, but wouldn't ever win.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
...riiiight.

I've read enough Wolverine to know that he doesn't beat any of the aforementioned people 10/10. Maybe if you skew his feats and showings while ignoring theirs, and even then, doubtful. I have no problem with the idea of him getting a majority over any of them. But yeah...10/10?

That's pretty bizarre.

10/10. 100/100. Captain America, Batman and Daredevil can't put Wolverine down. His healing factor is too good. Nothing they can do about it. He's also stronger and faster than them as well, which doesn't help the situation any. They could hit Wolverine for 24 hours straight without him moving a finger and they would even come close to a glancing blow from the Hulk, and Wolverine has shrugged off haymakers from the Hulk.

But since you apparently think they can beat Wolverine, prehaps you'd like to enlighten me?

Missing a part of his soul? I remember reading Enemy of the state, I don't remember that part.

Can he beat current Iron Fist 10/10?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
No. Wolverine can't beat the Hulk. He's done it, but that's PIS. Hulk has healing factor that will repair any damage does to him nearly instantly, nothing Wolverine can do other than fight him until his own healing factor is overloaded. He can give him a fight, but wouldn't ever win. Originally posted by srankmissingnin
10/10. 100/100. Captain America, Batman and Daredevil can't put Wolverine down. His healing factor is too good. Nothing they can do about it. He's also stronger and faster than them as well, which doesn't help the situation any. They could hit Wolverine for 24 hours straight without him moving a finger and they would even come close to a glancing blow from the Hulk, and Wolverine has shrugged off haymakers from the Hulk.

But since you apparently think they can beat Wolverine, prehaps you'd like to enlighten me? So you are drunk. Ok.

Originally posted by dmills
Missing a part of his soul? I remember reading Enemy of the state, I don't remember that part.

A part of his soul stolen when the Hand / Hydra resurrected him in EotS is what was used to give life to Shogon. He made a deal with Lazaer to get it back.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So you are drunk. Ok.

Any time you'd like to get into a scan war, for anyone of these things let me know, and I'd be glade to embarrass you.

So on a KMC battle, your saying Cap can't get one win? He can't ko wolvie 1 single time?

Originally posted by dmills
Can he beat current Iron Fist 10/10?

Not 10/10 but still high majority, Danny needs a Fat Cobra healing factor to edge out Wolverine.

Originally posted by dmills
So on a KMC battle, your saying Cap can't get one win? He can't ko wolvie 1 single time?

Forum fights are PIS off. Captain America CAN NOT BEAT WOLVERINE WITH OUT PIS. If you can think of a single possible scenario where Captain America can logically beat Wolverine without the aid of a plot device let me know.

Like I said, he has just as much a chance of beating Wolverine as Wolverine does of beating the Hulk.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Any time you'd like to get into a scan war, for anyone of these things let me know, and I'd be glade to embarrass you. I find it hard to imagine someone who is more uninformed and as deluded as you are on this matchup or on other Wolverine matchups against Cap, Daredevil or Hulk.

Iron Fist will beat wolvie 8/10 easily. Especially in a forum battle. But we're digressing. Gamora wins

Oh and Fat Cobra takes a looong time to heal. Danny can do it instantly.

Adamantium skeleton > An iron fist, I guess.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I find it hard to imagine someone who is more uninformed and as deluded as you are on this matchup or on other Wolverine matchups against Cap, Daredevil or Hulk.

You can say what you'd like, the vast majority of on panel evidence supports my opinion. If you actually think you can make a case for Daredevil beating Wolverine, go ahead, and I'll shoot it full of holes. Just let me know.

^ Yeah, like that whole Wolverine can't have his brain penetrated argument went.

Acting like overloading Wolverine's healing factor is the only way to beat him is something that I didn't think Wolverine fanboys did anymore. The deluded conviction is oddly captivating.

@Jakethebank,

Hmmm. Makes me wonder why this hasn't been done yet in modern times. I'm sure Marvel will get around to it sooner or later.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Yeah, like that whole Wolverine can't have his brain penetrated argument went.

Acting like overloading Wolverine's healing factor is the only way to beat him is something that I didn't think Wolverine fanboys did anymore. The deluded conviction is oddly captivating.

You mean your crack pot theory that a few PIS examples(or WIS if you want), made with inaccurate anatomical knowledge, means that Wolverine is missing bones in his skull?

How else are you going to beat him? If you can't over load his healing factor... he isn't going to go down.

Originally posted by dmills
@Jakethebank,

Hmmm. Makes me wonder why this hasn't been done yet in modern times. I'm sure Marvel will get around to it sooner or later.

The closest thing is about 10 years ago when Junzo kicked the crap out of Danny with almost no effort, and then Wolverine teamed up with Danny put the boots to Junzo. Had the dude running scared.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
You mean your crack pot theory that a few PIS examples(or WIS if you want), made with inaccurate anatomical knowledge, means that Wolverine is missing bones in his skull?

How else are you going to beat him? If you can't over load his healing factor... he isn't going to go down. Having three foot long claws housed in your forearm is also inaccurate anatomical knowledge. I love how you haven't come to grips with Wolverine having his brain penetrated yet. Delicious.

Except the times he has gone down that didn't overload his healing factor.

also spider-man kicking danny ass with no effort

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Having three foot long claws housed in your forearm is also inaccurate anatomical knowledge. I love how you haven't come to grips with Wolverine having his brain penetrated yet. Delicious.

Except the times he has gone down that didn't overload his healing factor.

Yes because Wolverine has claws = him missing pieces of his skull! Of course, how could I not realize it?

Wolverine's skull can't be penetrated. It was penetrated in a few PIS examples, we don't use PIS (read the forum rules) so they are completely irrelevant. You came up with an unvalidated theory to explain something that doesn't need to be explained. If Wolverine was missing parts of his skull we'd know about it, it would be mentioned in one of the thousands of comics books, or failing that Handbook entries, featuring Wolverine. Its not, because he isn't.

When has Wolverine gone down without his healing factor being overloaded? If Wolverine's gone down, his healing factor was overloaded. Fact.

^ No. Because projectiles and claws have penetrated his skull several times on-panel = him missing pieces of his skull. How could you not realize it?

It's stupid that an alien can be killed by exposure to lead, one of the most prevalent elements in the universe. Doesn't make it PIS because it kills Daxamites on-panel. Wolverine's brain has been penetrated numerous times on-panel. If Wolverine's brain were completely encased in adamantium, he wouldn't have had his brain penetrated all those times. Think about it. Just not too hard.

lulz

Originally posted by dmills
Iron Fist will beat wolvie 8/10 easily. Especially in a forum battle. But we're digressing. Gamora wins

Oh and Fat Cobra takes a looong time to heal. Danny can do it instantly. didnt wolverine do better against junzo then IF and it was Wolverine who had to save IF from junzo?

hmm.. i doubt IF is a better MA fighter than logan he may have more amps but not equal... also logan has fought Psylocke whom i would put above IF...

iron fist was stalemated by shang chi whom again wolverine beat

Gamora? Pft,,,who knows. I just figure a person that throws tanks around and is as good or probably better fighter than said character should be able to win. Thats my opinion anyways.

Cap wouldnt lose 10 straight either. I dont see why he couldnt stun Wolverine by bashing his throat with the shield and then going in for a choke hold for a KO. No way he loses 10 straight. I dont care how much of a hard-on somebody has for Wolverine, that aint happening.

Logan has operated after chokes, throat strikes, rips, tears, stabbed not breathing b4 ,i believe it only worked once via DD in a garth ennis run...

times it has failed over times it has succeeded? once.

Please don't get me started on that PIStacular Iron Fist/Wolverine crap!

Anyway, Marvel seems to be pushing Danny into Karate Kid levels of absurdity. As an old school Iron Fist fan going waaaay back, I kinda have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, who doesn't want to see their favorite hero get a big time power up. On the other, it takes away some of the vulnerability that made me fall in love with the character as a kid.

I mean, I remember when he used to fight people that way outclassed him and they'd have the thought bubbles making you feel his doubt, and his determination to find a way to win. Now they have the guy amping up like frigging dragon ball z, doing chi blasts, throwing hundreds of punches and kicks in a second or karate chopping helicarriers out of the sky! That put's him firmly into super human pissed off hulk level punching power turf. Now if I see him struggle to beat say, Daredevil, it won't be beliveble to me. IMO they should probably tone him down just a tad.

Anyway, I gotta get some sleep. I'll check in with you peeps tomorrow.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ No. Because projectiles and claws have penetrated his skull several times on-panel = him missing pieces of his skull. How could you not realize it?

It's stupid that an alien can be killed by exposure to lead, one of the most prevalent elements in the universe. Doesn't make it PIS because it kills Daxamites on-panel. Wolverine's brain has been penetrated numerous times on-panel. If Wolverine's brain were completely encased in adamantium, he wouldn't have had his brain penetrated all those times. Think about it. Just not too hard.

lulz

Riddle me this: Why would the Weapon X program spend millions of dollars to make an anti-metal bullets capable of killing Wolverine, if he was missing parts of his skull? Doesn't that seem like over kill? They would say "Hey Mavrike shoot Wolverine in the eye, he has no bones back there!" No, the created bullets capable of penetration Wolverine's skull because it was necessary, and they'd know... considering they have extensive files and x-rays on hand concerning Wolverine, and they gave him the Adamantium in the first place. Once again, if he was missing bones, we'd know about it. It would be a potent weakness to exposit. Ultimate Wolverine had one bone in his body that wasn't Adamantium. You want to know how I know that? Because *gasp* it was stated.

You've concocted this asinine theory to explain something that doesn't need to be explained because its going to be ignore anyway. Four isolated examples that have absolutely nothing to do with one another. Mystique shooting Wolverine through nostril (the only possible example out of the lot) doesn't not validate Scalphunter shooting Wolverine through the eye with a large caliber bullet, which in turn doesn't validate Deadpool shotting Wolverine through... um... where ever he was supposed to have done that, and that doesn't validate Wolverine getting shot through ear channel with a crossbow bolt. None of them have anything to do with one another. None of them make each other more valid when compared as a whole.

One example is possible, Mystique could have should Wolverine through the anterior orifice and hit his brain, its just extremely, extremely unlikely. Two examples are based on misconceptions on human anatomy one on the auditory hiatus and the other on the orbital cavity. A misconception about the size and angel of the auditory hiatus has nothing to do one way or any other with a misconception about the size of the hole the orbital cavity. And the Deadpool example is just complete nonsense. You mention these examples in a group, as though they somehow lend credibility to one another, but in reality that have nothing to do with each other. They are all completely different, and all deal with completely different pieces of anatomy,

Suggesting that Wolverine is missing is Sphenoid bone is absurd, we've seen the great wing of the Sphenoid bone about a dozen times when Wolverine's skull (the Sphenoid bone isn't just part of the occipital bone, but the frontal as well) has been exposed. In fact we've seen every single bone in Wolverine's the orbital cavity, as they all partially extend into temporal and frontal bones which we've dozens of times. Thinking that Wolverine has an incomplete orbital cavity because a writer didn't realize that the opening in the orbital cavity is much to small for a bullet to pass through is a huge leap.