Squall vs. Gabranth

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Pyron_Knight
The weak and bad hero of FFVIII vs. the strong and awesome antagonist of FFXII.

I say Gabranth wins.

Sin_Volvagia
Squall kicks Gabranth's ass. FFXII doesn't compare to the power of FFVIII.

Kazenji
Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
FFXII doesn't compare to the power of FFVIII.

Yeah thats a good enough reason............ roll eyes (sarcastic)

Sin_Volvagia
Originally posted by Kazenji
Yeah thats a good enough reason............ roll eyes (sarcastic)

Tell me what FFXII characters have done above those in FFVIII.

Vayne was powerful enough to destroy sky fortress Bahamut? Ultimecia was powerful enough to compress time and space and absorb all of existance.

Pyron_Knight
Yeah...that makes no sense. You migth as well say Bartz could beat Cloud because Neo Exdeath was gonna destroy existence and all Seph could do was sort of destroy the planet.

XanatosForever
Well, what has Gabranth done?

Pyron_Knight
He's been awesome.

Other than that, all signs point to him being stronger than Judge Bergan who had inhuman strength (Squall doesn't) He also wields two weapons which would be more than Squall and his one gunblade could handle.

GrieverSquall
Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
The weak and bad hero of FFVIII

Wow... We have an Squall hater here, it doesn't matter if you insult a character, that won't change the fact that someone is stronger than another. Leave your spite out of this debate.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
the strong and awesome antagonist of FFXII.

Lmao.
Like saying that would make a character automatically better than another.

Sure... Hey, the perfect, strong and awesome, protagonist of Final Fantasy XII Vs. the weak, crybaby protagonist from Final Fantasy X... Does that make sense to you? Lol.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
I say Gabranth wins.

This is the scene when you must provide your evidence and thoughs.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
He's been awesome.

Gabranth? Well yeah also Squall, Cloud, Terra, Zidane, and more than him, so?

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
all signs point to him being stronger than Judge Bergan who had inhuman strength

WTF.
So Judge Bergan is super-human? Lmao? So Gabranth is stronger than someone that is super-human? Rofl?

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
(Squall doesn't)

GFs says hi.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
He also wields two weapons which would be more than Squall and his one gunblade could handle.

And Cloud wields 10,000 swords and he's owned by a guy who only wields a Katana.

Cyner
Actually... Bartz would easily trounce any other main character from FF no expression

Pyron_Knight
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Wow... We have an Squall hater here, it doesn't matter if you insult a character, that won't change the fact that someone is stronger than another. Leave your spite out of this debate.

No.



it's not against any rules so stop acting like you can tell someone what to do.



I have.



Squall is everything that is not awesome.


Yes. Seems simple enough to understand. Bergan's even stated to have inhuman strength.



No they don't. They say nothing because you can't quantify Squall's strength. You're going off a vague quote and nothing more.



And neither of those characters have anything to do with this battle. Squall hasn't shown the capacity to deal with a person who wields duel weapons therefore he's outmatched. Very simple.

Cyner
i haven't shown the capacity to sit through an entire football game, that doesn't mean I couldn't

Son of Sparda
naw Terra would beat Bartz

well hopefully sad

Nephthys
Squall showed the capacity to beat someone who could stop time, but yeah, two swords are going to beat his candy ass.

Pyron_Knight
Originally posted by Cyner
i haven't shown the capacity to sit through an entire football game, that doesn't mean I couldn't

That's not how debating works.

Cyner
Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
That's not how debating works.
Which is the point of me posting that. You're saying that Squall couldn't handle a dual wielder just because he hasn't "shown the capacity" to do so. Seems like a ridiculous statement to me. Truthfully I don't care about any FF character except Bartz, but I think you need to lrn2debate.

wakkawakkawakka
I actually like Gabranth more than Squall but I still see him losing this. Even though it would appear that Gabranth has more battle experience due to him being older than Squall, I'm still not sure if that would measure up to some of the apparent skill the characters in VIII have.

ScreamPaste
Which is all moot because she couldn't use any of that agaisnt Squall.

/Small contribution.

GrieverSquall
Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
No.

No what?

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
it's not against any rules so stop acting like you can tell someone what to do.

Who said anything about 'rules`?
Bashing one character to make the other one look good, it doesn't work, I'm afraid. I think you should know this already. It doesn't matter whom you like more here, you know.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Squall is everything that is not awesome.

Huh?
And because you don't like him, that means he's weak? Lol.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Yes. Seems simple enough to understand. Bergan's even stated to have inhuman strength.

Oh, so Bergan is super-human? You should bring that quote. What makes him super-human? Where is stated? From where you got that Gabranth can beat a super-human?

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
No they don't.

Denying facts, won't make them go away.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
They say nothing because you can't quantify Squall's strength.

Lmao. Are you okay, dude? GFs provides super-human abilities, what are you trying to say with: 'you can't quantify' ? Can you 'quantify' 'Bergan's super-human' abilities? We can't quantify anyone's strengths. In fact if the GFs provides super-human abilities, it is because they do, it doesn't matter how 'much' power they got. Now, what about Bergan? How he is super-human? Please tell me because this is something new to me.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
You're going off a vague quote and nothing more.

What vague quote? The only quote I want to see is the one from Bergan being 'super-human' as you suggest.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
And neither of those characters have anything to do with this battle.

You say this as defense because IT REFUTES your argument. That example destroyed your whole pathetic argument.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Squall hasn't shown the capacity to deal with a person who wields duel weapons therefore he's outmatched. Very simple.

This is one of the most ridiculous posts ever. Congratulations.

So EVERY character that hasn't shown capacities to deal with a person that wields two swords, it means they are outmatched? It means they can't fight back? So, this includes almost all of the swordsmen from the Final Fantasy series, if we follow your stupid logic, of course. Do me a favor and learn how to debate and to accept your mistakes, you arguments are a bunch of retarded logic, thanks.

Pyron_Knight
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
No what?

You told me to leave my spite out of this debate. So I said no, I wouldn't.
You can't leave your bias out of anything. You're a Squall fana nd that will always be part of the debate as well.



I do know that. I was simply saying my opinion.


No. his lack of feats make him weak.



Skip to 1:30.
ZLBGbUGryRE




You have no facts.



Very easily. A character lifts a big rock. We quantify hai sstrength based on how big the rock was. He could lift sya a ton because the rock weighed a ton.

It's not very complicated.a



You have absolutely zero showings from Squall of superhuman strength. So you have only vague quotes that GFs allow superhuman abilities.



You have no argument. You're a fanboy with vague quotes and nothing more. You have repeatedly ine very Squall thread failed to produce any feats or showings for him.


You're the one who knows nothing of debating Mr. "I don't have ANY PROOF AT ALL but still Squall wins."

If Squall hasn't shown the skill to deal with people with two weapons, he can't. Your "logic" is so fragile and idiotic that I might as well say "well sure Gabranth hasn't show h ecould shoot lightning bolts out his ass but that doesn't mean he can't."

Or how about

"Sure Squall hasn't shown mastery of Kung Fu but that doesn't mean he isn't an expert at it."

Feats matter. Facts matter. If a character hasn't been shown to have a skill, he doesn't have it.

That's how debating works, you n00b.

GrieverSquall
Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
You told me to leave my spite out of this debate. So I said no, I wouldn't. You can't leave your bias out of anything. You're a Squall fana nd that will always be part of the debate as well.

Oh, but YOU are the one bashing a character here, not me, despite that Squall is my favorite character I am not bashing Grabranth. Because it won't change anything, you know. Insulting a character won't make the other one look better.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
No. his lack of feats make him weak.

Good, good. Now tell me what Squall supposedly 'lacks' ?
Why he is weak?

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Skip to 1:30.

I did and I remember that scene.
Where it says he's super-human? Where is stated? huh Just because Drace says 'inhuman...' ? He wasn't using a Manufacted Nethicite there? Vaan threw Vayne even worst and he wasn't even using anything, just a sword and pure strength, so Vaan is super-human? Sorry, this shows nothing about Gabranth, I never saw Gabranth defeating Bergan anyway. You can suppose he's stronger than him, but that's all you got.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
You have no facts.

Facts about what? I didn't say anything, I'm just looking at your 'facts' (which by the way they aren't). What GABRANTH can do? It doesn't matter if Vayne blows the planet, I care about Gabranth here. I need to know Gabranth's feats. He can fight with two swords and I suppose he is experienced (I am even giving you feats for him), yes, and...?

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Very easily. A character lifts a big rock. We quantify hai sstrength based on how big the rock was. He could lift sya a ton because the rock weighed a ton.

It's not very complicated.a

I hardly understand what you typed here.
Let's see... What a rock have to do with anything? Don't misunderstand, I'm trying to understand your points here, but you can't explain them very well. What Final Fantasy character can lift a giant rock? I don't know anyone. Gabranth can lift giant rocks? That's what you're trying to say?

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
You have absolutely zero showings from Squall of superhuman strength. So you have only vague quotes that GFs allow superhuman abilities.

Zero showings? Squall defeated Ultimecia's minions without GFs, Magic, without anything, just with his skills, that's pretty awesome, imagine with GFs equipped. Those 'vague' quotes are facts from the game, if the GFs provides above-human (super-human) abilities, it is because they do. It's like asking how much power or what kind of abilities those Judges receives for using a Manufacted Nethicite. You don't know. The fact that they do receive special powers.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
You have no argument. You're a fanboy with vague quotes and nothing more. You have repeatedly ine very Squall thread failed to produce any feats or showings for him.

The example I gave you, refuted your argument, simple as that.
I am sorry.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
You're the one who knows nothing of debating Mr. "I don't have ANY PROOF AT ALL but still Squall wins."

Lol, I didn't said Squall wins... You claimed Gabranth's absolute victory in this thread with retarded logic. I'm just proving you wrong, that's all.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
If Squall hasn't shown the skill to deal with people with two weapons, he can't.

I can't believe you are defending such logic. Can I know what kind of logic is this? So, Gabranth is stronger than anyone that hasn't shown the skill to deal with people with two weapons? That literally includes almost any Final Fantasy warriors, Garland, Cloud, Zidane, Terra, Cecil, Bartz. What the hell? So I wield two swords and you just one, therefore I win? No, just no.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
"Sure Squall hasn't shown mastery of Kung Fu but that doesn't mean he isn't an expert at it."

What you're saying here is that a person that wields two swords will be always stronger/superior than one that wields just one sword...? Sorry, that is a faulty logic.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Feats matter. Facts matter. If a character hasn't been shown to have a skill, he doesn't have it.

Indeed. Indeed. You don't need a 'specifically' skill to be able to fight someone that carries two swords though. Hell, I don't even know what are Gabranth's feats, you have named nothing, still you are defending faulty logic, I can't believe it.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
That's how debating works, you n00b.

Then you have a very wrong idea in how debate works, I'm afraid...

NemeBro
Both of you are using shit-logic and only think Squall or Gabranth wins because you like the character you support.

GrieverSquall
Originally posted by NemeBro
Both of you are using shit-logic and only think Squall or Gabranth wins because you like the character you support.

And you're talking nonsense for no apparent reason whatsoever.
Do not attack. I'm not using any kind of logic, because I am not claiming anything. You should read well who's the one using 'shit-logic' here. I like both characters and I didn't said Squall wins, hell, I'm not even trying to show Squall wins. It doesn't matter whom you like more by the way, if you think so, then you're another using 'shit-logic'.

NemeBro
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
And you're talking nonsense for no apparent reason whatsoever.
Do not attack. I'm not using any kind of logic, because I am not claiming anything. You should read well who's the one using 'shit-logic' here. I like both characters and I didn't said Squall wins, hell, I'm not even trying to show Squall wins. It doesn't matter whom you like more by the way, if you think so, then you're another using 'shit-logic'. You using the GFs as some sort of statement to prove Squall's physical capabilities is shit logic silly man.

You see, not only is that statement fairly vague in how it affects Squall, but it does not elaborate on to what extent it affects anything at all. We have literally nothing to go by.

While I am posting, the only strength feat I saw from Bergan in that video is very well within human capabilities. A strong human, but human.

GrieverSquall
Originally posted by NemeBro
You using the GFs as some sort of statement to prove Squall's physical capabilities is shit logic silly man.

Some sort of statement? So you're disagreeing with something stated in the game itself? I have invented something? Why is shit logic? I didn't said absolutely ANYTHING about Squall's physical cabilities here, what are you trying to say?

Originally posted by NemeBro
You see, not only is that statement fairly vague in how it affects Squall, but it does not elaborate on to what extent it affects anything at all. We have literally nothing to go by.

Vague? Nothing? It affetcs Squall perfectly.
We have creatures providing strengths, Magical and Summon abilities, etc. to Squall and we have Gabranth. But yet we don't know what Gabranth can do or is capable of. Are you supporting Gabranth? If you do, please provide feats for him. And please, do not use: 'gabranth uses two swordz and squall just one therefore he wins because you will make yourself look really bad.

Originally posted by NemeBro
While I am posting, the only strength feat I saw from Bergan in that video is very well within human capabilities. A strong human, but human.

Vaan throwing Vayne says hi. OF COURSE he isn't super-human.
Vaan says hi, dammit. I don't care about Bergan anyway, I care about GABRANTH.

Sin_Volvagia
The only thing Gabranth has over Squall is Renew. Other than that, he hasn't done what Squall couldn't do. What, Gabranth can use two swords? How cute but Squall is a top military mercenary and has limit breaks that make Gabranth's energy waves look like jokes.

Just to let you know, Judge Bergan was using the power of Nethicite. When has Gabranth used one?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Which is all moot because she couldn't use any of that agaisnt Squall.

/Small contribution.

PIS

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Yeah...that makes no sense. You migth as well say Bartz could beat Cloud because Neo Exdeath was gonna destroy existence and all Seph could do was sort of destroy the planet.

Power of the Crystals > Mako energy

Pyron_Knight
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Oh, but YOU are the one bashing a character here, not me, despite that Squall is my favorite character I am not bashing Grabranth. Because it won't change anything, you know. Insulting a character won't make the other one look better.

No one said it would.



Feats.



Yes.



He's stronger than Bergan who is superhuman to a degree we can quantify. Sqaull isn't.



It's called a general example. If you so desperately need a real one, Cloud has several strength feats from Advent Children. All those could be quantified. It's not someoen just saying he's superhuman; it's showing how superhuman he is.

Just describing someone as superhuman with no feats to back it up could mean they're anywhere from as strong as Spiderman to as strong as The Hulk.



You haven't done anything of the sort. You've said Squall beat some featless monster. That doesn't mean anything.



Most of those characters have shown quantified superhuman power. Squall hasn't. Cloud would beat Gabranth due to superior speed. Terra doue to superioer power.

Squall has neither.So it comes down to skill and Gabranth has that.



Not what I'm saying.



Well, kid, you go ask if you can debate with someone. Then tell them you have no evidence whatsoever but one vague quote with no substantiation. They'll straighten you out on how you're not debating right at all.



And this entire post is laughably wrong.
Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
How cute but Squall is a top military mercenary

Balamb Garden is a joke of a military insttitue.



Gameplay and non-canon.



The power of Nethicite does not give you more strength than everyone else. If it did then Vayne would be unbeatable.



No it doesn't.

Sin_Volvagia
Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Gameplay and non-canon.

Your proof that it's non-canon? FF7's limit breaks sure were canon as proven in Advent Children.



Vayne did use nethicite and went into a mutant form. He was far stronger than all the Judges.



The power of the crystals gave Butz the power of a type of warrior. When mastered, they become a part of him. A Knight + Black Mage + Time Mage + Ninja + Mystic Knight would slaughter Cloud.

Butz > Cloud
Exdeath > Sephiroth

Nephthys
Lion Heart kicks Gabranths ass.

GrieverSquall
Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
No one said it would.

It is not necessary to do it though.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Feats.

That's not Gabranth...?

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Yes.

Nope. Nowhere is stated he is super-human.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
He's stronger than Bergan who is superhuman to a degree we can quantify. Sqaull isn't.

First off, Bergan isn't super-human, Gabranth isn't super-human, therefore he coudln't defeat a super-human (if Bergan were a super-human, which he is not). Second, Gabranth hasn't defeated Bergan, I can argue Bergan is stronger than Gabranth. In fact, Squall IS super-human. Hey, I love Gabranth, he's awesome and pretty strong, but he isn't super-human and he can't defeat a super-human.
Super-human > human.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
It's called a general example. If you so desperately need a real one, Cloud has several strength feats from Advent Children. All those could be quantified. It's not someoen just saying he's superhuman; it's showing how superhuman he is.

No, it isn't. What have Cloud to do with anything in this fight? (That's your line ) roll eyes (sarcastic) Advent Children is something totally overrated, we don't see anything of those feats in Final Fantasy VII. Final Fantasy VIII characters have shown even more feats in their own game, you know. Despite that Final Fantasy XII got the technology to do those feats seen in Advent Children/Crisis Core, they didn't, so you see. Nothing can be 'quantified' that's bullshit. I don't know how much power Cloud got from his Jenova Cells and Mako, I don't know how much power a Judge receives for using a Manufacted Nethicite either, we don't know what kind of abilities, skills they can use, you can't quantify anything, that's bullshit.

Now, I suppose Gabranth has shown more power than Squall? Tell me, I am listening.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
You haven't done anything of the sort. You've said Squall beat some featless monster. That doesn't mean anything.

Are you talking about Ultimecia's minions? Those are the most powerful monsters/bosses in the game (including Omega Weapon) and Squall did it without kind of enhancements whatsoever. Ultimecia/Griever destroys their GFs and Magic, still Squall can fight. The stronger the GF, the stronger the user. Without GFs Squall is still powerful, because the GFs make them powerful. With GFs equipped they are even more powerful.

The one that haven't done anything of the sort is you sir, you have abolutely anything for Gabranth. 'He uses two swords.' WOW... Still I think Basch can beat Gabranth. Squall uses a Gunblade... WOW.... laughing

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Most of those characters have shown quantified superhuman power.

Name me some.
Also I want to know if is stated they are super-humans.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Squall hasn't

Is stated that the GFs provides above-human capabilities. wink
Gabranth isn't super-human, mate. big grin

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Cloud would beat Gabranth due to superior speed.

Lol. Also Squall with his superior speed.
Hell, does Gabranth has shown signs of speed or movements? laughing

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Terra doue to superioer power.

Power? You mean Magic? Squall can use Magic, you know.
You mean Summon power? Squall can Summon, you know. stick out tongue

Cloud and Terra wouldn't come to save Gabranth, ya know? laughing out loud

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Squall has neither

Read above lil hater.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
So it comes down to skill and Gabranth has that.

Oh really? What kind of skill? What skills? Name me some.
Yeah, he is experienced in battle, like the rest of the Final Fantasy characters i all the Universes, lol.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Well, kid, you go ask if you can debate with someone. Then tell them you have no evidence whatsoever but one vague quote with no substantiation. They'll straighten you out on how you're not debating right at all.

I think you said Gabranth wins... Right? The burden of proof is in you for now. At the moment, you don't know how to debate, sir.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
And this entire post is laughably wrong

You're laughable, I can't believe how much hatred you have for a fictional character that doesn't even exist. That's hilarious. laughing out loud
Keep it up, I'm having fun. smile



Originally posted by Nephthys
Lion Heart kicks Gabranths ass.

thumb up

wakkawakkawakka
Not that it really matters but if you were to use the Gabranth from Dissidia, then he really would win(IMO). However XII characters don't really do anything that spectacular due to them constantly ignoring each other. Gabranth might have age and kickass armor but that's about it.

Wonder how well Vayne would fair off against Squall.

Heythere,Honey
I agree with Bartz and Xdeath being superior to Cloud and Sephy rock

Pyron_Knight
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
You're laughable, I can't believe how much hatred you have for a fictional character that doesn't even exist. That's hilarious. laughing out loud
Keep it up, I'm having fun. smile

You think i hate Squall? Do you honestly think Squall is important enough to hate?

He's not, buddy. There are fictional characters I hate. The Potentials from Buffy, Sousuke Aizen from Beach, that religious ***** from The Mist....
I hate them. I could make whole threads ranting about them.

Squall is not nearly deserving of that hatred. He's simply a bad character. Fiction is littered with them.

I'm really already bored of this topic. I made it while on an FFXII kick since I played it. But that kick is gone and this serves no purpose for me.

GrieverSquall
Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
You think i hate Squall? Do you honestly think Squall is important enough to hate?

He's not, buddy. There are fictional characters I hate. The Potentials from Buffy, Sousuke Aizen from Beach, that religious ***** from The Mist....
I hate them. I could make whole threads ranting about them.

Squall is not nearly deserving of that hatred. He's simply a bad character. Fiction is littered with them.

I'm really already bored of this topic. I made it while on an FFXII kick since I played it. But that kick is gone and this serves no purpose for me.

Yes, I think you hate (NOT 'hate' with all the meanings of that word) Squall. I mean, come on, you don't like Squall (and that's good, you can have a different opinion and is 100% respectable). But, my point was, that in these debates, you insulting or making fun of a character won't make the other one look better whatsoever. Like: 'the stupid main and weak character from Final Fantasy VIII Vs. the awesome and strong antagonist from Final Fantasy XII' that doesn't work. That's all, no hard feelings, just pointing that out. I hope you understand.

In other words, it doesn't matter whom you like more. We have to decide logically who would win or at least what characters have the advantages in a fight. That's the main point.

You can say Squall is a bad character and you must have your own reasons, in my opinion (despite that he's my favorite Final Fantasy character from the series) he isn't a bad character.

It's ok, I don't know what are Gabranth's feats anyway besides that he's an experienced knight (Judge) and that is skilled with swords. Other than that, I truly don't know his feats. He hasn't shown anything at all to at least have a rational argument going for him. He's pretty strong, I'm sure of that, but the Final Fantasy XII characters are pretty much the same in that aspect... They are 'strong' but we don't know anything about their true abilities.

heartlesshero17
Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Tell me what FFXII characters have done above those in FFVIII.

Vayne was powerful enough to destroy sky fortress Bahamut? Ultimecia was powerful enough to compress time and space and absorb all of existance.

Way to understate the truth. Vayne didn't destroy the sky fortress bahamut. He merged with its parts and the energy that came from the sun cryst which caused it to malfunction. ONE little piece of the sun cryst can destroy a whole kingdom. He had strength from the full cryst and strength already gained from manufacted nethicite and he also merged with Venat. He was far more powerful than just destroying an airship


Anyway Squall being my favorite FF hero, I say Gabranth wins. After his homeland is lost he easily is able to rise though the ranks of the empire, uses mist to enhance his blade, and was able to fight the party alone(the first losing when the dr came in).

ScreamPaste
Actually, it's a plot device, the point is, Time Compression is totally moot.

heartlesshero17
Well Bergan is superhuman. Aside from Drace practically saying he was super human, he has manufacted nethicite, which makes people super human.

Now with that said, Gabranth is never said to use manufacted nethicite or not. Its easily possible and most likely that he gets access to some before his first encounter which would explain why the party didn't just instantly beat his ass. But nothing is confirmed.

Squall however. is not superhuman. Or at least to fairly say is vaguely super human. GF can possibly increase your strength, it is never stated how stronger. According to the game and a few ultimania translations, GF's grant people stronger use of para magic. Para magic being mention to be possible(but insanley weak) without gf's. Gf para magic is mentioned to be stronger than regular para magic, but way inferior to a sorceress

So Squall has access to mid level magic by his world standards. Gabranth has access and has demonstrated the easy use of magic(mist, whatever) to power his attacks. Now what's bad about this is neither have the edge here because it is never shown the full extent of thier power. We never see Squall use para magic to increase his strength nor was it mentioned how much effect it would have, and we never know how powerful Gabranth mist charging thing is as he only used it once and it barely got through to Vayne(with Vayne's power, though, its obvious why it didn't work)

GrieverSquall
Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Gabranth wins. After his homeland is lost he easily is able to rise though the ranks of the empire

The same I can say about Squall in being the most powerful SeeD at the age of 17. Gabranth is experienced, but the same we can say about most of the Final Fantasy characters.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
uses mist to enhance his blade

Where it says that in the game? He says it by himself? I can say Squall uses the GFs to enhance his Gunblade, but I suppose I need evidence for that. I have evidence that Squall enhances his attack by pulling the trigger though, that's evidence.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
and was able to fight the party alone

Because it's a boss. Any boss can fight the party alone. He was defeated anyway, that doesn't make him stronger than each party member. I can argue that Basch is stronger than him because the bad guys always loses, but that would be a pathetic argument.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Well Bergan is superhuman.

I already know that. He uses Nethicite.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Aside from Drace practically saying he was super human

Because he was using Nethicite, otherwise he's just a normal human like Gabranth or any Judge. I don't care about what Bergan does anyway as I don't care what Vayne does. It's Gabranth.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Now with that said, Gabranth is never said to use manufacted nethicite or not. Its easily possible and most likely that he gets access to some before his first encounter which would explain why the party didn't just instantly beat his ass. But nothing is confirmed.

Exactly, nothing is confirmed, so this paragraph is meaningless.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Squall however. is not superhuman.

You're wrong, Squall is super-human.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Or at least to fairly say is vaguely super human

I wouldn't say that at all.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
GF can possibly increase your strength, it is never stated how stronger.

GFs does enhances your strengths. It doesn't matter 'how much', that 'how much' argument is refuted. We don't know 'how much' those Nethicites increases your abilities. It can depend of each one who uses it or how much of that power you use. We don't know how much strength those Nethicites provides nor what kind of abilities, so it's the same. We know GFs provides above-humans abilities to the users, that's what matters.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
According to the game and a few ultimania translations, GF's grant people stronger use of para magic. Para magic being mention to be possible(but insanley weak) without gf's.

And? That's another ability that GFs provides, they allow them to have access to Magical Spells, that's something I already know by the way.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Gf para magic is mentioned to be stronger than regular para magic, but way inferior to a sorceress

Para-Magic is way inferior to a Sorceress? You're making this up.
Para-Magic is the Magic used by humans, Sorceresses can infinitely use Magic normally and naturally, that's the difference. Humans needs to Draw Magic (sometimes) in order to use them. Sorceresses Magic can be indeed more powerful, but Para-Magic isn't weak whatsoever.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Gabranth has access and has demonstrated the easy use of magic(mist, whatever) to power his attacks

No, he hasn't. You mentioned it above.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
We never see Squall use para magic to increase his strength nor was it mentioned how much effect it would have We never see Squall use para magic to increase his strength nor was it mentioned how much effect it would have, and we never know how powerful Gabranth mist charging thing is as he only used it once and it barely got through to Vayne(with Vayne's power, though, its obvious why it didn't work)

We do. Through the game they always mention the Junction, to equip their GFs and we have the fact that they do. You don't need to see something to know something when you have even something that is stated in the script. On the other hand, We never see Gabranth doing ANYTHING of what you have mentioned, at all. It doesn't matter if 'Mist' or 'Nethicite' exists, we need to know if Gabranth does uses them to fight (Like Bergan or Vayne), which he doesn't.

heartlesshero17
I know the same can be said about Squall. or most FF heroes. Not denying that



He does this in a cutscene. He charges his sword up with mist. You can tell its mist because of the oh so obvious yellow mist that comes around his sword when he does it.Aslo mist is the main source of energy in FFXII aside from magick(which comes from mist). So that should have been obvious. But I guess enhance was not a good choice of words. Pick a better word for me plz lol



Yeah its a boss...Doesn't change or alter in any way what I said. Does not change the fact he was capable of taking on the party. Which was all the comment said. Nothing to it. I didn't say he was uber powerful because he fought the party and than instantly got owned by an old man. I just said he was capable of doing so. It wasn't even a point really. Just a statement



Don't take this the wrong, cause I'm a calm and not rude guy, but why did you even quote that knowing damn well what follows in the very next sentence?



I just said he could be vaguely super human. As in super human without showing much of feats? I'm guessing you just misunderstood, I was kinda agreeing with ya here.





We're arguing about characters strength, abilities, and who would win. What do ya mean it doesn't matter how much stronger he gets with it? That doesn't even begin to make sense. We do know more about nethicite and to a point what kind of strength it can give you canonically and what abilities it can have, but I already said that Gabranth wasn't even confirmed to have it, so why are you mentioning it even though you deemed the paragraph where I said that pointless before?

We know gf can grant access to magic to humans. And we know gfs can make them stronger. We know Gabranth uses mist(as he shows it unless you can explain what that yellow mist was) and we know mist is a form of magic(or is more usuable in the form of magic I should say) and with a stronger density of mist the stronger the magick and mist is everywhere in FFXII. we have 2 people using different types of powers, of course we should or need to now how powerful they get. For both Squall and Gabranth




I ensure you I'm not making this. Its pretty lame and boring to make up facts against a character in a debate. especially against one I happen to like. I don't really have time right now, but if you're willing to wait I can post some quotes from the ultimania and the game that support my point. I barely have enough time to finish this post lol

And just pointing this out. I didn't say para magic is weak. I said attempting para magic without a summon(something I didn't even know was possible until the ultimania) is weaker. I just said para magic is weaker to a soceress magic



Already been over this. Btw I'm talking about the Vayne cutscene if you some how didn't already realize that when I mentioned Vayne in my last post



Yes mentioning it through the game is a good way to prove they exist. But not how effective they actually are. Which is the whole point. and I'd just like to mention again that Gabranth does NOT have nethicite in this argument unless other wise said to have or proven to have some. Its pretty much the vagueness of gf strength vs the vagueness of mist strength

GrieverSquall
Originally posted by heartlesshero17
He does this in a cutscene. He charges his sword up with mist. You can tell its mist because of the oh so obvious yellow mist that comes around his sword when he does it.

What cutscene? Refresh my memory, please. No, I can't tell it's Mist until I see and I want to know if is even stated that Gabranth performs attacks with Mist.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Aslo mist is the main source of energy in FFXII aside from magick(which comes from mist). So that should have been obvious. But I guess enhance was not a good choice of words. Pick a better word for me plz lol

Indeed, the 'Mist' is an important and main element from Final Fantasy XII. But this what does shows? If Gabranth never used it, then it means you can't use it as evidence about his powers. We'll see.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Yeah its a boss...Doesn't change or alter in any way what I said. Does not change the fact he was capable of taking on the party. Which was all the comment said. Nothing to it. I didn't say he was uber powerful because he fought the party and than instantly got owned by an old man. I just said he was capable of doing so. It wasn't even a point really. Just a statement

Of course it does. Except he didn't take the party, he was defeated by them. You can't say he's stronger than each member of the party because the fights 6 people. I can fight 3 guys, still it doesn't mean I'm stronger that each of them individually. To put a simple and clean example, take Beatrix from Final Fantasy IX, she fights the party but she DOES DEFEAT THEM ALL. So therefore she would easily beat one of them individually. And if these are only assumptions, I can Argue that only Basch finished Gabranth because we see him standing in front of him and the rest is watching behind. Same applies to Vossler.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Don't take this the wrong, cause I'm a calm and not rude guy

Huh? What do you mean by this?

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
why did you even quote that knowing damn well what follows in the very next sentence?

Because I disagree about this: 'at least to fairly say is vaguely super human

I said I wouldn't say that, I would say he's super-human.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
I just said he could be vaguely super human. As in super human without showing much of feats? I'm guessing you just misunderstood, I was kinda agreeing with ya here.

Feats? He didn't fought all of Ultimecia's minions without GFs, Magic? Still he managed to defeat them all? I suppose that's a feat, GFs makes them stronger, powerful. Without them, they're still powerful, they remain powerful. With them they are even more powerful. Simple as that.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
We're arguing about characters strength, abilities, and who would win. What do ya mean it doesn't matter how much stronger he gets with it? That doesn't even begin to make sense. We do know more about nethicite and to a point what kind of strength it can give you canonically and what abilities it can have, but I already said that Gabranth wasn't even confirmed to have it, so why are you mentioning it even though you deemed the paragraph where I said that pointless before?

I know that. Because we can't tell by ourselves 'how much' power they got, we can't, we can't quantify it. We know by facts, that they gain super-human abilities and capabilities though. Your paragraph was meaningless because Gabranth isn't confirmed to have used Nethicite (you said it) to enhance his abilities such as Bergan did. That's why. On the other hand, we know what GFs does and we know they use them. We don't lack the knowledge if they uses them or not, we do know they do. Unlike Gabranth.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
We know Gabranth uses mist(as he shows it unless you can explain what that yellow mist was)

Not so fast, show me that scene. Either way we lack statements.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
we know mist is a form of magic(or is more usuable in the form of magic I should say) and with a stronger density of mist the stronger the magick and mist is everywhere in FFXII.

Like the Materia from Final Fantasy VII. However, we don't know if Gabranth uses Magic. I don't remember him using a single spell on my party.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
we have 2 people using different types of powers, of course we should or need to now how powerful they get. For both Squall and Gabranth

We don't know about Gabranth.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
I ensure you I'm not making this. Its pretty lame and boring to make up facts against a character in a debate. especially against one I happen to like. I don't really have time right now, but if you're willing to wait I can post some quotes from the ultimania and the game that support my point. I barely have enough time to finish this post lol

You don't need to put Ultmania quotes nor game quotes, I can put them for you as I know everything from Final Fantasy VIII. I was saying Para-Magic isn't weak whatsoever and the difference between Sorceresses. Although, if you want to claim that Para-Magic is weak, then bring those quotes stating such thing because I have no knowledge about those statements. But it seems you didn't meant Para-Magic is weak, that is all I wanted to know, we're done here. No problem.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Yes mentioning it through the game is a good way to prove they exist. But not how effective they actually are. Which is the whole point. and I'd just like to mention again that Gabranth does NOT have nethicite in this argument unless other wise said to have or proven to have some. Its pretty much the vagueness of gf strength vs the vagueness of mist strength

The whole point is that we don't know if Gabranth can perform what you're suggesting, we do know they uses GFs though, by facts. Sadly, I can't say the same about Gabranth.

heartlesshero17
Its in this video around 5:30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnMmAwF24Tk

*I'm still kinda new so like how exactly do I make the video just show up on the forum?*

Gabranth uses the mist. It doesn't need to be stated as mist for it to be obvious its mist. Aside from using the mist in a way that was described in other cases as combining magic and weapons(one of the artifacts in tactics explains this as well except with guns I believe) but also remember that mist is the ONLY other source of usuable energy in FFXII world aside from Anima. Which are two completely different things if you understood Revenant wings

Now I say its vague (as are Squall's capabilities imo) because he used this ability on the one person who has absorbed manufacted nethicite, which is able to absorb, gain a slight immunity to and cancel out other magicks. (its even more fail cause in the same scene Larsa cancels out Vayne's magick with his own nethicite. that's one huge glaring design flaw for nethicite XD)



Why are you still on this? As I said. There was no point. In any way at all. It was just a simple statement. I didn't say nor imply that Gabranth was stronger than anyone with that. Its like me saying Squall has a gunblade. The previous sentence does not say anything about Squall skills with a gunblade are greater than anyone else or worse. Just says he has one. Same with this. You could have just ignored that is what I mean



Just a precausion. usually people take what I say the wrong way XD



Fair enough. I still say its pretty vague. Vague means something not clearly grasped or understood. You can still know it exists(as I know Squall gf gives him power). I say its vague, cause as with Gabranth mist, it is not cleary understood how powerful does it make him




Don't you get more power after you beat the first guy(who is also the easist?). either way I get your point, but I always chalked it as Squall and co pure weapon skills the first few battles




I don't exactly remember how materia works in FFVII(been forever since I played) but I guess it works similarly. except you don't always need magicite to use magic






alrighty.

Pyron_Knight
heartlesshero17, what you do is, notice how every YouTube video has an = in them? It always has watch?v= and then a bunch of other numbers and letters.

What you do is remove everything before the equal sign and the equal sign itself as well. So www.youtube.com/watch?v= should all be deleted, leaving just the ltters and numbers after the equal sign.

When you have just that, put them in these tags

then the link (don't include the period. Just the / youtube)

Sorry if I explaiend it badly.

heartlesshero17
70yT3alpSvA


Sorry for the random video. But awesome I got it. Thanks for the help!

GrieverSquall
Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Gabranth uses the mist. It doesn't need to be stated as mist for it to be obvious its mist. Aside from using the mist in a way that was described in other cases as combining magic and weapons(one of the artifacts in tactics explains this as well except with guns I believe) but also remember that mist is the ONLY other source of usuable energy in FFXII world aside from Anima. Which are two completely different things if you understood Revenant wings

Now I say its vague (as are Squall's capabilities imo) because he used this ability on the one person who has absorbed manufacted nethicite, which is able to absorb, gain a slight immunity to and cancel out other magicks. (its even more fail cause in the same scene Larsa cancels out Vayne's magick with his own nethicite. that's one huge glaring design flaw for nethicite XD)

Yeah, I suppose that's Mist. Gabranth enhanced, at least, that attack with Mist. I wouldn't say that's vague, Squall's capabilities either. Now what does this shows? This shows Gabranth enhaced an attack with Mist, it doesn't shows he's super-human. He's like the characters Quickenings, they uses the Mist but that doesn't mean they are super-humans whatsoever.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Why are you still on this? As I said. There was no point. In any way at all. It was just a simple statement. I didn't say nor imply that Gabranth was stronger than anyone with that. Its like me saying Squall has a gunblade. The previous sentence does not say anything about Squall skills with a gunblade are greater than anyone else or worse. Just says he has one. Same with this. You could have just ignored that is what I mean

I'm just pointing out some things, that's all, also replying to your post... I guess? confused Anyway. What Squall's Gunblade have to do in this point? I don't quite understand.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Fair enough. I still say its pretty vague. Vague means something not clearly grasped or understood. You can still know it exists(as I know Squall gf gives him power). I say its vague, cause as with Gabranth mist, it is not cleary understood how powerful does it make him

So, the GFs enhancements are something not clearly grasped nor understood...? Why? It's pretty clear, actually. I know that everything exists because it's stated. The difference here is that Mist does not make the characters super-humans, Manufacted Nethicite does. We don't know how powerful they become with the use of Nethicite, that's the point. Also you agree with me here, finally, GFs makes them super-humans (obviously) we can't quantify the strength though, but as far as they makes them super-humans, that is what concerns here due that is fact anyway. Thank you.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Don't you get more power after you beat the first guy(who is also the easist?). either way I get your point, but I always chalked it as Squall and co pure weapon skills the first few battles

What guy? You mean the first of those minions you fight? Easier? Probably in the Gameplay, I don't think that monster is just a push-over at all since it's one of those powerful minions that are under Ultimecia's total control, you know. The point here is, that they fought them without any type of enhancements, still they beat them all. GFs makes them stronger, powerful, without them they remain powerful. Plus, Ultimecia/Griever can automatically destroy your GFs and Magical spells, so I suppose the characters were losing powers also in the final battle. Still they won. Imagine with GFs fully equipped how strong they are or can become, they can become infinitely stronger without any type of limits. The stronger the GF, the stronger the user. Glad you got my point though.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
I don't exactly remember how materia works in FFVII(been forever since I played) but I guess it works similarly. except you don't always need magicite to use magic

Materia is crystallized Mako. It draws the planet's energy (Lifestream) in order to control/manipulate Magical powers. It's similar.

heartlesshero17
I know it doesn't show if he is super human, by his world standards of course. Any living thing in Ivalice can use mist if it has knowledge of it. I was arguing if Gabranth use of mist/magick could go against Squall use of gf powering.



The Squall thing was just an example to show there was no context to anything I said about Gabranth as a boss. Nothing important.




The fact is still we don't know what kinda strength lies within the power. We know Gf make you strong. But How strong? Can Squall lift boulders, or does it give him a slight strength boast to swing a sword easier? Its not clearly understood what kind power you get with a gf hence the word vague. Having it stated in game that it gives you power does not make it not vague. it makes its purpose not vague, as its obvious its purpose is to give the user power, but the power it self is still vague.

a hypothical situation. If Gabranth were in an area with dense mist and did his little sword thingy. And Squall had some gf junctioned, and they clashed together. Who would over power who? Its vague. Why? Because we don't know how much more power mist has in a dense area and we don't know how much power a gf gives you. Only know that it gives you power. Now do you see why I say its vague for both sides?





Who cares if he was ultimecia minion. Seifer was her knight and he wasn't much of a challenge to the party. And I remember that after each fight you can unseal a power. so they were only completely powerless to like the first beast and gaining power after each boss. And Ultimecia taking powers away was a gameplay thing wasn't it? Its not like Vayne novus/nethicite magick canceling and absorbing where it actually happens in the story and is stated to do so. Unless it is said somewhere she can do that than I'll take that back



Thanks for explaining. I should play FFVII again. But I don't like it like how I liked VIII and V

GrieverSquall
Originally posted by heartlesshero17
I know it doesn't show if he is super human, by his world standards of course. Any living thing in Ivalice can use mist if it has knowledge of it. I was arguing if Gabranth use of mist/magick could go against Squall use of gf powering.

It shows he isn't super-human at all, actually. Where Gabranth does use Magic? We know he can? Yes, we know he does? No. Unless you show me he does. You can't say he does, you know. No, Gabranth charging his sword with Mist does not make him stronger than a super-human. I guess some of the Gunblade's trigger power, should be enough to handle Gabranth's swords with Mist. Although, we don't know how often Gabranth does that. On the other hand, we can easily assume Squall can pull the trigger multiple times as he doesn't need to charge any type of energy, unless he performs Renzokuken (something that I REALLY doubt Gabranth could handle). Plus, he's super-human.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
The fact is still we don't know what kinda strength lies within the power. We know Gf make you strong. But How strong. Can Squall lift boulders, or does it give him a slight strength boast to swing a sword easier? Its not clearly understood what kind power you get with a gf hence the word vague. Having it stated in game that it gives you power does not make it not vague. it makes its purpose not vague, as its obvious its purpose is to give the user power, but the power it self is still vague.

a hypothical situation. If Gabranth were in an area with dense mist and did his little sword thingy. And Squall had some gf junctioned, and they clashed together. Who would over power who? Its vague. Why? Because we don't know how much more power mist has in a dense area and we don't know how much power a gf gives you. Only know that it gives you power. Now do you see why I say its vague for both sides?


The fact is that we don't know what kinda of: strengths/abilities/Magics and how much they can receive with any of those enhancements, nothing of that is explained specifically. But it doesn't means they gives them no power, or that the power becomes 'vague', it affects the users properly as any enhancements, this is reinforced after being stated in the script that they does provide above-humans capabilities. I have already explained why we can't quantify any of that and I'm not talking about GFs here, I am talking about every enhancements the Final Fantasy characters receives. You ask how strong, that's an easy answer: Above-humans capabilities, thus super-human. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

With that example or analogy, you are literally denying facts here, plus, you are introducing Squall in Gabranth's world, otuside his world Gabranth can't use anything, on the other hand, Squall can still have their GFs equipped. You are saying that GFs just gives them power, that is vagues and end of story, which we know that they provides them with multiple abilities, powers and that they do enhances their bodies functions, they do receive above-human capabilities, you shouldn't be questioning this whatsoever. Mist does not makes them super-human, Manufacted Nethicite does, Gabranth never used one of those, thus Gabranth has power but not above-humans, thus Gabranth isn't super-human. If we follow that logic then Vaan and all the Final Fantasy XII characters (since they does use Mist to perform attacks such as the Quickenings) are super-humans. We perfectly know that's not true. We can say Vayne IS super-human, Vayne Novus, of course.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
I remember that after each fight you can unseal a power. so they were only completely powerless to like the first beast.

The main point here, is that they aren't powerless at all, it seems you're missing the point. So you suggest that after defeating the first monster they automatically recovered all of their powers? So that was the only monster in the whole castle? Because if we follow that all of the other bosses/minions are non-existent? What do you have to back this up?

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
And Ultimecia taking powers away was a gameplay thing wasn't it? Its not like Vayne novus/nethicite magick canceling and absorbing where it actually happens in the story and is stated to do so. Unless it is said somewhere she can do that

You're suggesting that the whole castle thing is Gameplay? Ultimecia sealing their power si Gameplay? All the bosses she controls are Gameplay? You would need a good reason to back this up.

Also, wasn't Gameplay when you go through the Licence Board to purchase your Quickenings? I suppose that doesn't make them non-existent? Ultimecia's castle is part of the plot, her, sealing their powers is part of the plot AND powers. We couldn't say the same about those Quickenings you purchase, right? I could argue and use the same argument you're using here and with many other stuff, of course.

heartlesshero17
this will be my last post on this subject, cause I don't really like Gabranth enough to continue writing big posts about him. That and you seem to be really biased and it looks like you are purposely misquoting things I say to make a cheap point(or you really aren't paying attention and if that's the case than I'm sorry for sounding rude). But I wanted to point some things out



For starters. I never said in any of my posts gabranth was super human. I said he has use of a power that we don't know how it would equal to Squall's. We know Gabranth can do magick. Cause the mist thing he does with his sword is a form of magick. That's what mist is. When a person uses the mist or harness it in an airship of other tech its magick. The mist just floating around in areas like raithwall tomb is just mist(that can be used for magick). You can't say its not magick when that's exactly what it is. Look up mist yourself or play FFXII cause you don't seem to understand






We don't know how powerful Squall's gunblade power is as well. How can you assume its enough to take out Gabranth mist/magick when you don't know the power of any? Again you sound biased




In game info says you can use magick as long as you either have a stone(magicite), or there is mist around. And mist is all around in FFXII. And we don't how often can Squall use his trigger. In the intro thing(where you don't press anythhing on the starting screen) we see Squall's gunblade in a case with bullet shells. We don't know if Squall has to uses these shells or not to make his trigger useful





With a vague power




This post is the reason why I'm leaving this topic. You can't even except that its vague(or you don't know what vague means). We know Squall has power. Duh. We have nothing to gauge his power by. We don't know as I said if it gives him the power to lift heavy things or a slight power boost cause it never shows it or never says what capabilities(especially considering he could barely open the valve in balamb without help and edea ice attack through the chest easily took him out, unless he didn't have gf's there). Having it said you can have above human capabilities does not change the fact that its vague. Go look up what the word vague means cause you seriously do not know

If Squall had an enhancements that either showed he can(FOR EXAMPLE) punch through a boulder or it was said he can he can punch through a boulder with said enhancements it would be less vague. We would have a lot to gauge it by whether we seen it or we read it. Quistis(I believe it was quistis was the first to say this) saying "GF gives us strength". Is vague. Gabranth magick is stronger with a denser mist and he can power his sword with it, Squall has gf that make him strong. We can't tell which has the edge here cause neither power is fully understood. More mist= more power doesn't show what destruction its capable of doing(except for mist storms) and gf give you strength doesn't either. Its Vague

Its like me saying I have six dollars and I ask you how much do you have and you say that you have more than me. That's VAGUE. It doesn't say how much more, if by a lot or a little. I'm gonna stop explaining what vague means cause I have a feeling it is not getting through to you






Don't these vs topics usually take place in an equal plane? Where both thier respective powers work? I dunno its usually like that for every vs topic I been in. Also how would we know Squall gfs would work where ever they would fight? You also sound biased again. You take away Gabranth use of outsourcing power yet you give Squall an outsource power? A gf power isn't his so why give it to him? Gabranth doesn't have the power on his on and needs mist or magicite, but Squall doesn't have these enhancements on his own yet you give him GFs? something that's only in his world.

You just complained that what I said is introducing Squall to Gabranth worlds than you immeditley give Squall something that only exists in his world. How is that not biased?




Be honest. Did you even read the post all the way through? Seriously. Heres how the full thing was said: "so they were only completely powerless to like the first beast and gaining power after each boss. "

NO I didn't say they gained all thier power after the first fight cause I specifically said they were gaining there power back after each boss fight in there. Hell even in the part you did quote I didn't hint at them getting all their powers back after the first fight. I said "I remember that after each fight you can unseal A power". Not All. "A", a single power from each boss. Where the hell did you get that from?



I didn't even say there was only one monster or suggest it or even slightly hint at it. Your reading skills are either really off, or you were sleepy when you typed this out. Sorry but it looks like your doing this on purpose. This is now the third time you took something I said and completely flipped it into something I didn't even hint at(the first being where you assumed I said para magic was just weak cause I said a soceress magic could be better)



No, that's not what I said(or what I was even responding to) I was responding to when you said Ultimecia/griever taking their powers and the party losing power as they were fighting them. I wasn't "suggesting" anything. I was ASKING you if she really could destroy gf and magic in mid fight as you suggested she could as part of the story. I only remember the sealing part being in the story before her fight. Which, honestly I don't even understand how defeating other beast gets their power back from a spell she casted. I guess shes just cool like that XD



Anyways I'm done. I'll just say its undecided for me. You can claim Squall wins if you want

wakkawakkawakka
MY EYES! Really does it take this much to prove a point? Me thins Squall did more than Gabranth because XII characters just ignore each other for the most part. However his Darth Vader like armor and past make his at the very least as cool as Squall.

FF Darth Vader vs FF Batman...that what this thread should be named.

GrieverSquall
Originally posted by heartlesshero17
this will be my last post on this subject, cause I don't really like Gabranth enough to continue writing big posts about him.

Okay. It doesn't matter whom you like more here though, you know? It matters to decide logically who would win despite if you like this character or not, if you don't want to debate against a character you like, then do not debate.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
That and you seem to be really biased and it looks like you are purposely misquoting things I say to make a cheap point(or you really aren't paying attention and if that's the case than I'm sorry for sounding rude). But I wanted to point some things out

If you think so...
Biased. Why? All I'm doing is replying to your posts, without ignoring anything you said and without being stubborn about anything. I am pointing things out even if isn't a direct reply to your quote, I'm pointing things out, that is all. I don't need to 'misquote' anything, why should I need to do that...? For what? What do you mean by 'cheap' point? It looks like you're kind of attacking me here. Well, whatever if that's what you think.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
I never said in any of my posts gabranth was super human. I said he has use of a power that we don't know how it would equal to Squall's.

I never said you said Gabranth was super-human. But you are comparing him with someone that IS super-human. The use of that power (if is Mist what you mean) don't make him on par with a super-human. Why? Because he uses (apparently) small portions of that Mist just for his WEAPONS, it speaks about his weapons, not about him, plus, he even used it ONCE at the final of the whole game. Mist doesn't make the Final Fantasy XII characters super-humans, at all. So why bother and persist in asking: 'how it would equal to Squall's GFs enhancements'? when you know it can't be equal? This is getting old, I think we have been over here already.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
We know Gabranth can do magick. Cause the mist thing he does with his sword is a form of magick. That's what mist is.

No, we don't. We know Mist is the source of Magic in Ivalice, but we don't know if Gabranth can use that Mist to cast Magical spells. We simply don't know and you can't prove he did. I never said that the thing he does with his sword wasn't a form of Magic. You are misunderstanding things here and I already know what Mist is by the way.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
When a person uses the mist or harness it in an airship of other tech its magick.

But I don't care what a person or airship can do with Mist, I care about what Gabranth did/can do with that Mist! You can't say that because Mist exists and any person can use it, Gabranth can use Magic when you don't have evidence that Gabranth uses/used Magical spells in the story, all you have is the weapon thing he does which I already know Mist is involved in it.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
The mist just floating around in areas like raithwall tomb is just mist(that can be used for magick).

I never said it wasn't Mist and that it can't be used for Magic.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
You can't say its not magick when that's exactly what it is. Look up mist yourself or play FFXII cause you don't seem to understand

I NEVER SAID THAT! Hello?
I don't need to play Final Fantasy XII because I've already did, and I understand perfectly, thanks for your concern.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
We don't know how powerful Squall's gunblade power is as well. How can you assume its enough to take out Gabranth mist/magick when you don't know the power of any? Again you sound biased

Did I said Squall can TAKE OUT Gabranth's swords with his Gunblade? I said he could handle it with the trigger power which gives more power to its attacks, that is even stated. I said that I don't see Gabranth handling Renzokuken very well AND his super-human powers, Limit Breaks are directly related to Magic, GFs and Junction, I don't think Gabranth can handle all of that. It sounds illogical to you or something? Just asking. Because Gabranth hasn't the edge here, you know, he isn't super-human. Oh joy, I sound so 'biased' because someone is saying it. It seems the one that can't accept facts here is you, my friend.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
In game info says you can use magick as long as you either have a stone(magicite), or there is mist around. And mist is all around in FFXII.

And what does this shows to you? How can you help Gabranth with this? Can you tell me? Because you aren't saying anything relevant and new to me, you know. It's just more stuff about Mist, but we already know that everyone can use Mist as eveyrone can use Materia in Final Fantasy VII and those things don't make you super-human by the way.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
And we don't how often can Squall use his trigger. In the intro thing(where you don't press anythhing on the starting screen) we see Squall's gunblade in a case with bullet shells. We don't know if Squall has to uses these shells or not to make his trigger useful

More often than Gabranth uses Mist, I suppose? That's a simple trigger, he can pull it in battle, he fights with it because it's part of what is his entire weapon. It's not some energy that we don't know what limitations could have. What the intro has to do with anything? Is stated in the Ultimania by the way, so by saying this you're literally ignoring what Gunblade can do and its functions as I can see. Too bad for you.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
With a vague power

With above-human powers.
Super-human > Normal human.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
You can't even except that its vague(or you don't know what vague means).

No, mate. You are the problem here. You don't accept that Squall have above-human powers, or you don't know what a super-human is or means. It seems you persist to prove that something that completely enhances your abilities and makes you superior is vague.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
We have nothing to gauge his power by.

Training. GFs, Para-Magic, Junctions, Limit Breaks.

"A GF is an independent energy force. By combining it with para-magic, it is possible to control tremendous energy. Memory loss is a possible side effect, but this has not been proven as of yet"

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
We don't know as I said if it gives him the power to lift heavy things

1. Super-human does not consist in only physical strength.
2. Why Squall would need to lift heavy things if he does fights with a blade?
3. We don't know if Jenova/Mako enhancements makes the members of SOLDIER to lift heavy things either, we do know they are super-humans though.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
edea ice attack through the chest easily took him out

1. Squall fought not only two monsters before reaching Edea, he fought and defeated Seifer by himself, then fought Edea. It's not like Squall didn't even fought anyone then went K.O. by that attack.
2. I would like to see Vaan, Basch or Gabranth enduring a fight with her. Wait... That would be an instant kill, they can't use anything outside their world, can they...? Plus... They aren't even super-humans even with the Mist power.
3. Edea/Ultimecia is not a normal human either. Sorceresses aren't normal humans. She could have killed them all if she would have wanted. Hell, Edea owned Rinoa before the parade and she didn't even moved. She killed the president by lifting him and burning him like a bug with a hand.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Go look up what the word vague means cause you seriously do not know

Go look up what the words above-human super-human means, but I'm sure you do know what it means though, the thing is, that you are denying facts here.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
If Squall had an enhancements that either showed he can (FOR EXAMPLE) punch through a boulder or it was said he can he can punch through a boulder with said enhancements it would be less vague.

So you are saying that Squall and any of the SeeDs have enhancements, until they shows to you that they can lift giant rocks or break the ground with their fists or something?

Instead of that he can easily demolish/enslave GFs and giant monsters with a sword.
Either way read above. Nothing is vague when you do know they have above-humans capabilities. Hell, they even take Ifrit as a TEST! Lmao. big grin It's vague, however, assume that something can reach/surpass super-human powers without evidence whatsoever. Why? Because it makes the proposition a vague one with out any basis. IE Just because Gabranth charges his swwrd with Magic does not makes him super-human. Which by the way is ALL you have for him. That is your whole argument.

GrieverSquall
Originally posted by heartlesshero17 Gabranth magick is stronger with a denser mist and he can power his sword with it, Squall has gf that make him strong.

Gabranth does not use Magic, Gabranth puts a bit of Mist on his weapon.
Squall uses Magic.
Outside his world Gabranth can't do anything with Mist.
Mist make his sword strong. GFs makes humans super-humans.

GFs enhancements > Mist.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
We can't tell which has the edge here

Probably because you don't want to see it.

Mist does not makes you super-human, you have absolutely anything to back that up. If Mist makes you super-human, then all the Final Fantasy XII characters are super-human, we know that's not true. You are a persistent one, don't you?
Gabranth does not have any type of advantages here.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
More mist= more power doesn't show what destruction its capable of doing(except for mist storms) and gf give you strength doesn't either.

Don't make me laugh. Bergan, who was actually a super-human was completely destroyed because he couldn't control the Nethicite's power and Venat was there.

Also... All of what you put here is completely irrelevant in a fight between Squall and Gabranth. Mist storm? What the hell is that supposed to do in this fight? It's like saying: Sure! Squall has tons, and can have armies of GFs to enhance his abilities even more and to fight along with him. Irrelevant and it doesn't follows. The fact here is that Gabranth uses Mist to its weapon, no more, no less.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Its like me saying I have six dollars and I ask you how much do you have and you say that you have more than me.

Wrong. The analogy is if we have two cars and one of them has enhancements. I will bet my money on the enhanced one. Super-human > Normal human. You are having difficulties in understanding what higher level of powers are. Seriously...

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Don't these vs topics usually take place in an equal plane? Where both thier respective powers work? I dunno its usually like that for every vs topic I been in. Also how would we know Squall gfs would work where ever they would fight? You also sound biased again. You take away Gabranth use of outsourcing power yet you give Squall an outsource power? A gf power isn't his so why give it to him? Gabranth doesn't have the power on his on and needs mist or magicite, but Squall doesn't have these enhancements on his own yet you give him GFs? something that's only in his world.

Isn't Mist the source of all Magic in all the whole Ivalice? How that would work in another universe/world where Mist doesn't exist? Explain. Why Squall wouldn't use GFs in another world? As far as I know GFs aren't the source of all the planet in Final Fantay VIII and they are Junctioned to the users, it depends on the user, not on the planet nor any source. Hell, they even could travel through Time to a place that no one can exist except Ultimecia, still their GFs weren't destroyed nor disappeared. And you are being ridiculous. You name me examples like: 'Mist storms' or: 'if there were dense Mist' and imaginary crap to make Gabranth look better and disregard everything supporting Squall. So Gabranth can create Mist storms to enhance his abilities? He can create dense Mist on himself? NO. RIGHT? So we can bring whatever we like to a fight? So we aren't using logic here or what is stated for each character? Stop being ridiculous.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
You just complained that what I said is introducing Squall to Gabranth worlds than you immeditley give Squall something that only exists in his world. How is that not biased?

I did not introduced Gabranth in Squall's world though. So stop accusing me and complaining. If Gabranth fights outside his world (in whatever world you like) he wouldn't have access to Mist. RIGHT? You was missing the point again and now accusing me. I did not give Squall any handicaps, if he can use his powers outside his world and Gabranth can't, I am not to blame. You did with Gabranth. The one that sounds biased here is you, sir. I didn't said Gabranth can't use Mist on his sword in this fight anyway, so.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
NO I didn't say they gained all thier power after the first fight cause I specifically said they were gaining there power back after each boss fight in there. Hell even in the part you did quote I didn't hint at them getting all their powers back after the first fight. I said "I remember that after each fight you can unseal A power". Not All. "A", a single power from each boss. Where the hell did you get that from?

I asked that intentionally. To see your entire explanation. Glad you did. Now yes. Then, you accept the seal of his powers as part of the plot. Yes they do recover part of their powers, I didn't said the don't. They can't choose what powers though. They split in two groups. It can be their Limit Breaks, their Para-Magic or GFs, I dunno. The facts here is, that those are the most powerful monsters/bosses in the whole game and that the castle is full of them, besides that in the castle you have encounters with monsters all the time besides the bosses. So. My point still remains, they managed to defeat them all with half of his powers/enhancements and to reach Ultimecia. They can do battle without GFs and they are still powerful, because they remain powerful.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
I was responding to when you said Ultimecia/griever taking their powers and the party losing power as they were fighting them. I wasn't "suggesting" anything. I was ASKING you if she really could destroy gf and magic in mid fight as you suggested she could as part of the story.

Why not? That's one of her powers. I mean hers and Griever's powers to destroy GFs. The only ones who does that are them. I didn't suggested anything, that's what happens and their abilities. That sounds weird or illogical to you? She was compressing the whole Universe and that's just one of her spells.

Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Anyways I'm done. I'll just say its undecided for me. You can claim Squall wins if you want

The facts here are (and these werw one of your main points for Gabranth):

Gabranth isn't super-human, because there's nothing to suggest he is, same goes to the Final Fantasy XII characters, unlike Vayne, Bergan or Dr. Cid if I am not mistaken. He isn't the strongest Judge, nothing says he is, anything suggest he is. He has climb ranks in the empire, the same we can say about the other Judges who are in the same level as he is, if not more. He charges his sword with Mist, that shows he performs attacks with Mist, it speaks about his weapon, not about him, also, other Judges can do it, also Basch (who I personally think is stronger than Gabranth, but isn't super-human either).

On the other hand, Squall is super-human, because there's something that suggest he is. He even have multiple abilities that the same enhancements provides to him. He's the strongest SeeD because there are a lot of things that suggest he is and I can name them all. He increases his Gunblade's attacks by pressing the trigger and with Renzokuken he enhances even more his attacks, all of this is also related to the GFs and Junction that can gives more power to those attacks. Renzokuken is a powerful attack that I really doubt Gabranth could handle. Hell, Squall have even the ability to Summon those creatures.

Squall (with just these few facts) takes it and puts him above Gabranth. Simple as that. Gabranth does NOT have any type of advantages against Squall. He simply does not.
Unless you name some, which I don't think so. At the moment your arguments have been refuted and I don't see what does Gabranth have that puts him above Squall like you think he does, I don't really know what makes you think Gabranth would win. Gabranth hasn't done anything that could put him above Squall. Not even in the plot. Plus: Super-human > Normal human. 'Nuff said.

heartlesshero17

GrieverSquall

Sin_Volvagia
Fran is superhuman unless that's what the Berserk spell is supposed to do.

GrieverSquall
Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Fran is superhuman unless that's what the Berserk spell is supposed to do.

She isn't.

The 'Berserk' status is purely Gameplay.

She's really weak to Mist and loses control of herself. Venat could have take control of her as he/she did with her sister.

wakkawakkawakka
The beserker fit that Fran threw kind of questions whether or not she's superhuman. Well she isn't technically a human at all so I gues its right.

Gabranth is also a relentless attacker in a sense so that could put Squall in a hot situation.

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