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Who wins?

Who do you think wins?

Prob thanos but only slightly...meaning a few universes are destroyed in the process.

Thanos.

People here are hyping HOM Wanda as top 5 or so most powerful beings.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Thanos.
I think its funny that you yourself have in the past estimated HOM Wanda as >LT but now give Thanos with IG the win.

I say Wanda because the only way Thanos beats her is not with his power or the IG but with his ability to manipulate, and even that's a long-shot.

"No more Thanos!"

HoM Wanda, imho.


"No more Infinity Gems!"

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I think its funny that you yourself have in the past estimated HOM Wanda as >LT but now give Thanos with IG the win.

I say Wanda because the only way Thanos beats her is not with his power or the IG but with his ability to manipulate, and even that's a long-shot.

"No more Thanos!"

I never claimed that Wanda was > to the LT

Probably one of the better wanktastic character vs. wanktastic characters threads I've seen. mmm

Wanda easily. There is also nothing that IG did to even compete with Wanda.
No more Thanos, no more IG.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Wanda easily. There is also nothing that IG did to even compete with Wanda.
No more Thanos, no more IG.

LOL. Why? You act as if she said no more abstracts or LT and it happened. Hahaha. All she said was no more mutants and all that affected was Earth, even than a good chunk of them still had their powers.

She's going up against a guy wiped out half the life in the universe with a snap of his finger. She lacks even the degree of cosmic awareness he possessed. He thinks, your brain is gone and more likely than not her brain is gone. She, however, doesn't have feats comparable.

Thanos destroys her.

HOM Wanda

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
LOL. Why? You act as if she said no more abstracts or LT and it happened. Hahaha. All she said was no more mutants and all that affected was Earth, even than a good chunk of them still had their powers.

She's going up against a guy wiped out half the life in the universe with a snap of his finger. She lacks even the degree of cosmic awareness he possessed. He thinks, your brain is gone and more likely than not her brain is gone. She, however, doesn't have feats comparable.

Thanos destroys her. wut

Originally posted by Mindset
wut

wut da hell is she going to do other than get the Thanos pimp hand?

thanos wins.

Thanos with Gauntlet....I believe Thanos would survive unchanged after SW just saying "no Thanos" or "no Gauntlet".

She is just an mutant amped by Chthon.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
LOL. Why? You act as if she said no more abstracts or LT and it happened. Hahaha. All she said was no more mutants and all that affected was Earth, even than a good chunk of them still had their powers.

You do know what Wanda was doing?

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
She's going up against a guy wiped out half the life in the universe with a snap of his finger. She lacks even the degree of cosmic awareness he possessed. He thinks, your brain is gone and more likely than not her brain is gone. She, however, doesn't have feats comparable.

Are you joking? Really?

Wanda is going up against a guy who wiped half the life in the universe with a snap of his finger?

Are you kidding me?

No, Thanos is going against a girl who was recreating whole MU, whole Marvel Omniverse with just a thought effortlessly.

Originally posted by the ninjak
She is just an mutant amped by Chthon.

F*uck, on this forum people still don't know what Wanda did or what power she had.

Originally posted by Xplosive

F*uck, on this forum people still don't know what Wanda did or what power she had.

Chill bro!
I know exactly what she did and what she is capable of.
She is a dimensional manipulator.
It was a tough call but I had to boil it down to origin of POWER!
SW is a mutant with links to Chthon.....evolving her powers to Omega Levels.
The IG is an artifact capable of challenging TOAA and Eternity.
I believe the Gauntlets in Thanos' hands would stop TIME and eliminate Wanda.

her altering the entire U had to do with a series of small events that originated on marvel earth which resulting in a divergent reality.. she herself with her power is not actually Universal nor does she have full control of her power as some one like jamie.

thanos with the IG is universal, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent he could and would beat wanda b4 she could form a though or speak a word.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
her altering the entire U had to do with a series of small events that originated on marvel earth which resulting in a divergent reality.. she herself with her power is not actually Universal nor does she have full control of her power as some one like jamie.

Like I said, on this forum people still don't know what Wanda did.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Chill bro!
I know exactly what she did and what she is capable of.
She is a dimensional manipulator.
It was a tough call but I had to boil it down to origin of POWER!
SW is a mutant with links to Chthon.....evolving her powers to Omega Levels.
The IG is an artifact capable of challenging TOAA and Eternity.
I believe the Gauntlets in Thanos' hands would stop TIME and eliminate Wanda.

I am very chilled. You don't know what she did or what she is capable. If you would, then you wouldn't come and say IG can challenge Eternity, like it is something or like it means or matters anything to Wanda.

No one can challenge TOAA. Eternity was a joke to Wanda anyway.

wanda is no different with how legion used his power... legion also created an entire new reality restructuring the current one with nothing more then altering small series of events which had a domino effect on reality.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Like I said, on this forum people still don't know what Wanda did.



I am very chilled. You don't know what she did or what she is capable. If you would, then you wouldn't come and say IG can challenge Eternity, like it is something or like it means or matters anything to Wanda.

No one can challenge TOAA. Eternity was a joke to Wanda anyway.

I agree The Infinite Gauntlet Saga was all part of the Big Plan.
But it still gave Thanos Omnipotence.
He was wise enough in the end to let that power go.
And that power was enough to STOP TIME and do with it what he wished.
Before Wanda can make a reality manipulating wish he will erase her.
Or possibly create a pocket dimension PYM style and survive the effects.

facepalm

Originally posted by Xplosive
facepalm

Does Homer have a headache?

Did you even read IG?

i see a perma ban in some ones future...


anyways.. might as well start saying rune king thor can beat thanos with the IG... b/c he can alter reality via time, event manipulation of earth.

Originally posted by Xplosive
You do know what Wanda was doing?

Yeah I know, but the real question is do you know what she was doing?

You act as if her omniversal feat was instantaneous.



Hahaha. Are you joking with me? It wasn't effortlessly. The effect spread out and moved across the omniverse. Wasn't instantaneous. The Ultimate Nullifier and the M'Krann can wipe it out too and the IG wielder would rape those chumps in a fight. What she did was akin to setting off a reality warping bomb in space.



Nothing that a master of space, time, and reality can't overcome. What you fail to realize is that she's a reality warper going up against someone who has actual mastery over reality and cosmic awareness far beyond most abstracts.

So yeah, Thanos stomps.

Thanos. Easily.

Thanos.

I'd also like to point out that Xplosive is pulling that condescending "you don't even know/you didn't even read it" argument without any actual retaliation.

Wanda did not rewrite history by changing a few events and setting off a butterfly effect nor did she travel through time like legion to do it.

She rewrote the 616 universe as she saw fit and then she put it back the way it was while unleashing a power wave that swallowed the omniverse, apparently taking it apart and putting it back toghether again, leaving countless universes within it altered.

But thanos had more awareness than she did so he might take her out.

Nobody but the editors challenge TOAA, thanos never came close to it.

Originally posted by 753
Wanda did not rewrite history by changing a few events and setting off a butterfly effect nor did she travel through time like legion to do it.

She rewrote the 616 universe as she saw fit and then she put it back the way it was while unleashing a power wave that swallowed the omniverse, apparently taking it apart and putting it back toghether again, leaving countless universes within it altered.

But thanos had more awareness than she did so he might take her out.

Nobody but the editors challenge TOAA, thanos never came close to it.
I think power wise Wanda>>IG easily. But she doesn't stomp or take a huge majority because Thanos is way more clever and less unstable. He could probably trick her into erasing herself or something like that.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I think power wise Wanda>>IG easily. But she doesn't stomp or take a huge majority because Thanos is way more clever and less unstable. He could probably trick her into erasing herself or something like that.

yup, she doesnt really seem to understand reality or her own powers either as she lacks cosmic awareness and her biggest feats are tied to childish tantrums.

Originally posted by 753
Wanda did not rewrite history by changing a few events and setting off a butterfly effect nor did she travel through time like legion to do it.

She rewrote the 616 universe as she saw fit and then she put it back the way it was while unleashing a power wave that swallowed the omniverse, apparently taking it apart and putting it back toghether again, leaving countless universes within it altered.

But thanos had more awareness than she did so he might take her out.

Nobody but the editors challenge TOAA, thanos never came close to it.

Because the Infinity Gauntlet couldn't do the same to the 616? Magus' Cosmic Containment Units created an entire universe. And even then that wasn't as powerful as the IG.

Seriously tho, what's she going to do to him? Try to reality warp the guy than stomped every other abstract that came after him? Kronos attack him with time itself only to get it turned back on him because Thanos was the master of time. The embodiment of the universe attacked him and also got stomped. Trying to attack the guy that holds mastery over reality with your reality warping powers is pretty stupid. Her feats are nice but they're not combat feats.

Originally posted by 753
yup, she doesnt really seem to understand reality or her own powers either as she lacks cosmic awareness and her biggest feats are tied to childish tantrums.

Doesn't her ability require speech as a focus?
Thanos can just freeze time then teleport next to her and break her neck.

Wanda

Thanos stomps.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Doesn't her ability require speech as a focus?
Thanos can just freeze time then teleport next to her and break her neck.

i dont think so, she even does unconsciously

Originally posted by the ninjak
Doesn't her ability require speech as a focus?
No.
Originally posted by the ninjak
Thanos can just freeze time then teleport next to her and break her neck.
Concepts like time aren't an issue for Wanda, who had control of it herself and whose Chaos Wave was breaking such concepts down.


I agree with Omega, that she's more powerful than the IG. But Thanos might pull a few wins by being intellectually superior to her and more savvy with his abilities.

Originally posted by Enyalus

No.

Concepts like time aren't an issue for Wanda, who had control of it herself and whose Chaos Wave was breaking such concepts down.


I agree with Omega, that she's more powerful than the IG. But Thanos might pull a few wins by being intellectually superior to her and more savvy with his abilities.

What feats did she display that puts her above the IG?

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
What feats did she display that puts her above the IG?
She rewrote the Omniverse for one.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
She rewrote the Omniverse for one.

Lol. What did she rewrite? Details please. Who and what in the omniverse were removed/alter by her?

yhe living tribunal, eternity and stan lee...

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
anyways.. might as well start saying rune king thor can beat thanos with the IG... b/c he can alter reality via time, event manipulation of earth.

In the face of evil, Mjolnir knows no bounds. biscuits

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
yhe living tribunal, eternity and stan lee...
Only Eternity.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Lol. What did she rewrite? Details please. Who and what in the omniverse were removed/alter by her?
According at least to Mr Master she made it so that the mutant gene was almost entirely erased across all timelines and alternate universes, the only universes not effected were those wherein the mutant gene was located on a different chromosome or had some other non-genetic cause IIRC.

Mr Master also believes that the IG is > to Wanda.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Only Eternity. who hasnt effected the eternity?

Thanos

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
What feats did she display that puts her above the IG?
Above Thanos with the IG? She rewrote the main 616 universe multiple times, created her own universe, tore the omniverse apart, then reconstructed it with a thought, without the majority of the mutant population across all timelines and realities.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
According at least to Mr Master she made it so that the mutant gene was almost entirely erased across all timelines and alternate universes, the only universes not effected were those wherein the mutant gene was located on a different chromosome or had some other non-genetic cause IIRC.

Yes, the realities like the one displayed in astonishing x-men still have mutants left in them, although there is no way to quantify them

Originally posted by 753
Yes, the realities like the one displayed in astonishing x-men still have mutants left in them, although there is no way to quantify them
Their chromosomes were different. They didn't possess the x-gene. It explains that in the Astonishing X-Men comic you're talking about.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Their chromosomes were different. They didn't possess the x-gene. It explains that in the Astonishing X-Men comic you're talking about.

IIRC, they had mutant genes (x genes, but I dont recall if they used the term) located in another chromossome, so the wave passed them by. 616 forge's artificial new men were the ones with 3 sets of chromosomes instead of 2, triploids.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Mr Master also believes that the IG is > to Wanda.

I am not sure that is true, but I know he said that in his opinion Wanda was quite possibly the most powerful being in MU at the time, even more than LT.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
According at least to Mr Master she made it so that the mutant gene was almost entirely erased across all timelines and alternate universes, the only universes not effected were those wherein the mutant gene was located on a different chromosome or had some other non-genetic cause IIRC.

Was it really *one* Wanda doing that, or a whole ton of Wandae going HoM all at once? (as is standard with alt timelines)

And as we saw in EXiles, plenty of universes were unaffected.

Originally posted by Q99
Was it really *one* Wanda doing that, or a whole ton of Wandae going HoM all at once? (as is standard with alt timelines)
I wasn't aware that was 'standard' with alternate timelines. In fact, I've never heard of the same events happening across many and/or all timelines at once.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Lol. What did she rewrite? Details please. Who and what in the omniverse were removed/alter by her?

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Yeah I know, but the real question is do you know what she was doing?

Yeah, why do you think I said you are the one who didn't know what she was doing?.

In the arc it was even practically said she was the most powerful being. That was said for more beings, but she actually backed it up with one of the biggest feats in comic history. IG never did such enromous feat as Wanda did.

it does happen it is just key moments that makes divergent timelines, so yes, alternate timeline wandas would make similar display of powers at that key moment as others would not..

Thanos in a WTFrape stomp.

Take out the IG then this will be alittle fair.

Originally posted by Stranglehold300
Take out the IG then this will be alittle fair.

facepalm

Originally posted by Q99
Was it really *one* Wanda doing that, or a whole ton of Wandae going HoM all at once? (as is standard with alt timelines)

Do you realize you just made that up?

Originally posted by Stranglehold300
Thanos in a WTFrape stomp.

Take out the IG then this will be alittle fair.
Look friends, we have ourselves a Hall-of-Famer here.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Look friends, we have ourselves a Hall-of-Famer here.

LOl.

But I still think Thanos can stomp without the IG.

take away his current version.

He blasted away Galactus.

Went toe to toe with Tyrant.

Mind raped Galactus.

I think he can use his Telepath powers to Salament Wanda.

Plus Death made him immortal.

take it easy on the new guy

Originally posted by Stranglehold300
Plus Death made him immortal.
Except he's died. More than once.

Originally posted by manx422
take it easy on the new guy

Its ok.

There is a scan where you can see Galactus being sucked into a black hole-ish kinda thing.

And Thanos didn't hurt Galactus with his blast, as both Galactus and Thanos confirmed it.

Originally posted by galactusischere
There is a scan where you can see Galactus being sucked into a black hole-ish kinda thing.
The scan I'm thinking of has Galactus being tossed around by the Chaos Wave while/just after it destroys Otherworld.

But, yeah.

Wanda got this one in the bag. She is the central being of 616

Originally posted by Stranglehold300
LOl.

But I still think Thanos can stomp without the IG.

take away his current version.

He blasted away Galactus.

Went toe to toe with Tyrant.

Mind raped Galactus.

I think he can use his Telepath powers to Salament Wanda.

Plus Death made him immortal.
And where in that list of trans-level feats is anything that suggests he can take an Omniversal power?

just b/c one can effect multiple realities doesnt mean they cant be killed by a bullet to the head or lobotomized or brainwashed..

by the way when one dons the gauntlet they know what will happen what has happen and what could have happen.. living in all points in time multiversal right there.

Originally posted by Stranglehold300

Take out the IG then this will be alittle fair.

So who wins Mr Master?

(drum roll)

Wanda vs Thanos/IG ... hm

Thanos for the slight majority. ... and not because of power output,
since Wanda was every bit the God Thanos became in that perspective,
but because of Thanos' omniscience, & stability with equal capabilities.

They were both all powerful,
but the IG gives the wielder supreme being type status,
where only a direct representation of TOAA's power surpasses it.

Then again, one could surely argue
that Wanda was akin to a supreme being during HOM.

So, while I'll say Thanos takes this,
I could make a valid argument that has Wanda stalemating, and even winning.

Feat wise though Wanda is the superior,
but that's not all it is for me in order to make a sensible decision,
there are other factors that come into play,
and then
after understanding/studying the character fully, the story, the narrations, the Handbooks,
the writer's comments, potentials & reasons why said potentials were held in check,
the power source of the character and type of influence the character has over reality,
and finally the opponents they've beaten.

All that then coupled with whatever feats is how I come to a conclusion.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Wanda vs Thanos/IG ... hm

Thanos for the slight majority. ... and not because of power output,
since Wanda was every bit the God Thanos became in that perspective,
but because of Thanos' omniscience, & stability with equal capabilities.

They were both all powerful,
but the IG gives the wielder supreme being type status,
where only a direct representation of TOAA's power surpasses it.

Then again, one could surely argue
that Wanda was akin to a supreme being during HOM.

So, while I'll say Thanos takes this,
I could make a valid argument that has Wanda stalemating, and even winning.

Feat wise though Wanda is the superior,
but that's not all it is for me in order to make a sensible decision,
there are other factors that come into play,
and then
after understanding/studying the character fully, the story, the narrations, the Handbooks,
the writer's comments, potentials & reasons why said potentials were held in check,
the power source of the character and type of influence the character has over reality,
and finally the opponents they've beaten.

All that then coupled with whatever feats is how I come to a conclusion.
I'm curious at to what gave the impression Thanos was ever Omniscient or even close to Omniscient in the story.

Originally posted by Omega Vision

I'm curious at to what gave the impression Thanos was ever Omniscient or even close to Omniscient in the story.
Is this sarcasm?

Because if its an honest question,
you need to enjoy the IG saga,
great read imo.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Is this sarcasm?

Because if its an honest question,
you need to enjoy the IG saga,
great read imo.
If he were Omniscient he wouldn't have needed Mephisto to reassure him after Maelstrom ****ed with him.

One of my biggest pet peeves is conflating Omnipotence with Omniscience as if they're synonyms or package deals.

edit

Originally posted by Stranglehold300

Mind raped Galactus.

I think he can use his Telepath powers to Salament Wanda.
Never happened.

salament?

Originally posted by Mindset
Never happened.

salament?
I'm perplexed by that as well.

stalemate?

Originally posted by 753
stalemate?
No I think its a...sexual term.

Originally posted by Omega Vision

If he were Omniscient he wouldn't have needed Mephisto to reassure him after Maelstrom ****ed with him.
That's about the only instance where Thanos displayed some sort of limitation.
Yea at that point Thanos was still in his infancy with the IG,
and yes, the Anomaly status Maelstrom had gave him certain perks,
but Maelstrom never did anything to Thanos,
and even admitted that Thanos surpassed his power.
Maelstrom was obliterated, then re-appeared as if nothing had happened,
was he re-created into reality by his boss Oblivion?
Or was he hiding behind the smoke & therefore was truly un-affected by the blast?

No one will ever know.

What we do know, is that Maelstrom was beneath an abstract (Oblivion)
Maelstrom killed Anomaly easily, yet Thanos couldn't affect the Anomaly status?
The same Maelstrom Thanos couldn't affect,
is the same Maelstrom Quasar stalemated while empowered by Infinity,
and yet Thanos stomped Eternity
who in the Infinity Gauntlet arc was everything Infinity was and then some. (space & time)

None of this makes sense, but then again, the Maelstrom pis was in a Quasar book,
that was prepping Maelstrom as the big threat in that side of Marvel,
so this kinda explains to us why this nonsense happened.
Originally posted by Omega Vision

One of my biggest pet peeves is conflating Omnipotence with Omniscience as if they're synonyms or package deals.
I have no idea how I tickled this thought.

Originally posted by Mr Master
That's about the only instance where Thanos displayed some sort of limitation.
Yea at that point Thanos was still in his infancy with the IG,
and yes, the Anomaly status Maelstrom had gave him certain perks,
but Maelstrom never did anything to Thanos,
and even admitted that Thanos surpassed his power.
Maelstrom was obliterated, then re-appeared as if nothing had happened,
was he re-created into reality by his boss Oblivion?
Or was he hiding behind the smoke & therefore was truly un-affected by the blast?

No one will ever know.

What we do know, is that Maelstrom was beneath an abstract (Oblivion)
Maelstrom killed Anomaly easily, yet Thanos couldn't affect the Anomaly status?
The same Maelstrom Thanos couldn't affect,
is the same Maelstrom Quasar stalemated while empowered by Infinity,
and yet Thanos stomped Eternity
who in the Infinity Gauntlet arc was everything Infinity was and then some. (space & time)

None of this makes sense, but then again, the Maelstrom pis was in a Quasar book,
that was prepping Maelstrom as the big threat in that side of Marvel,
so this kinda explains to us why this nonsense happened.

I have no idea how I tickled this thought.
Okay...okay. See you're talking as if I'm trying to argue against Thanos being Omnipotent where in fact I'm arguing against him being Omniscient.
I think Maelstrom was able to escape Thanos's wrath not because he was more powerful but because he tricked him, much in the same way Mordru tricked Shazam into releasing him from the ROE. If you can trick someone then odds are they aren't Omniscient.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Above Thanos with the IG? She rewrote the main 616 universe multiple times, created her own universe, tore the omniverse apart, then reconstructed it with a thought, without the majority of the mutant population across all timelines and realities.

And who stopped her? What resisted against her? She's a reality warper. The fact that she warped reality repeated doesn't some how put her above the Infinity Gauntlet. She also didn't destroy it instantaneously. It was an affect that spread out across the omniverse. The UN has that scope of power too and the IG punked it. As for the mutants, she didn't get rid of all mutants.


Originally posted by Xplosive
Yeah, why do you think I said you are the one who didn't know what she was doing?.

In the arc it was even practically said she was the most powerful being. That was said for more beings, but she actually backed it up with one of the biggest feats in comic history. IG never did such enromous feat as Wanda did.

No, in terms of scope the IG never did such a thing. But it's feats a far better. She warped the people and genes of the omniverse. She didn't fight Eternity himself. Heck, no abstract opposed her at all. Also the UN has the same range and yet the IG won that one.


Originally posted by Enyalus
Their chromosomes were different. They didn't possess the x-gene. It explains that in the Astonishing X-Men comic you're talking about.

In other words, she isn't cosmically aware as Thanos. She said no more mutants. I don't ever recall her saying, no more mutants with this x-gene.

Basically these are the feats everyones bring up and putting her on the IG's power level? She isn't winning this because the Reality gem gaves you mastery of reality for one. As powerful as she is, she's getting stomped hard. The embodiment of time, Kronos, got punked going up against the time gem. Wanda's getting the same treatment. In fact, his cosmic awareness puts her at a serve disadvantage as he could see into the future and stop time.

^ This thread is over.
Mr Master already posted.

Originally posted by Mr Master
That's about the only instance where Thanos displayed some sort of limitation.
Yea at that point Thanos was still in his infancy with the IG,
and yes, the Anomaly status Maelstrom had gave him certain perks,
but Maelstrom never did anything to Thanos,
and even admitted that Thanos surpassed his power.
Maelstrom was obliterated, then re-appeared as if nothing had happened,
was he re-created into reality by his boss Oblivion?
Or was he hiding behind the smoke & therefore was truly un-affected by the blast?

No one will ever know.

What we do know, is that Maelstrom was beneath an abstract (Oblivion)
Maelstrom killed Anomaly easily, yet Thanos couldn't affect the Anomaly status?
The same Maelstrom Thanos couldn't affect,
is the same Maelstrom Quasar stalemated while empowered by Infinity,
and yet Thanos stomped Eternity
who in the Infinity Gauntlet arc was everything Infinity was and then some. (space & time)

None of this makes sense, but then again, the Maelstrom pis was in a Quasar book,
that was prepping Maelstrom as the big threat in that side of Marvel,
so this kinda explains to us why this nonsense happened.

I have no idea how I tickled this thought.
maybe maelstrom is simply out of jurisdition of the gems? despite not being as powerful as it...
the gems destroy reality but maelstrom lives outside reality(oblivion)
idk if the gem can destroy both reality and nothingness, if so what will be left?

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
maybe maelstrom is simply out of jurisdition of the gems? despite not being as powerful as it...
the gems destroy reality but maelstrom lives outside reality(oblivion)
idk if the gem can destroy both reality and nothingness, if so what will be left?

nothing, which is what oblivion is anyway, he is a tricky concept to work with in these things

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
maybe maelstrom is simply out of jurisdition of the gems? despite not being as powerful as it...
the gems destroy reality but maelstrom lives outside reality(oblivion)
idk if the gem can destroy both reality and nothingness, if so what will be left?
...Or maybe Thanos genuinely didn't know who or what Maelstrom was because he wasn't Omniscient.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
And who stopped her? What resisted against her? She's a reality warper. The fact that she warped reality repeated doesn't some how put her above the Infinity Gauntlet. She also didn't destroy it instantaneously. It was an affect that spread out across the omniverse. The UN has that scope of power too and the IG punked it. As for the mutants, she didn't get rid of all mutants.

No, in terms of scope the IG never did such a thing. But it's feats a far better. She warped the people and genes of the omniverse. She didn't fight Eternity himself. Heck, no abstract opposed her at all. Also the UN has the same range and yet the IG won that one.

In other words, she isn't cosmically aware as Thanos. She said no more mutants. I don't ever recall her saying, no more mutants with this x-gene.

Basically these are the feats everyones bring up and putting her on the IG's power level? She isn't winning this because the Reality gem gaves you mastery of reality for one. As powerful as she is, she's getting stomped hard. The embodiment of time, Kronos, got punked going up against the time gem. Wanda's getting the same treatment. In fact, his cosmic awareness puts her at a serve disadvantage as he could see into the future and stop time.

I think she's got similar or superior raw power going by feats, but agree he has an edge in awareness and comprehension. She missed mutants whose x gens were in a different chromossome entirely as a result of this. He takes a majority, but it's not a stomp.

Wanda still. Greater power display. Some could say IG didn't do such stuff, because of that and that, well Wanda actually did it. No one stopped her.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Heck, no abstract opposed her at all.


How to oppose her when Wanda was doing with Eternity whatever she wanted?

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
She also didn't destroy it instantaneously.

She didn't because she didn't want it that way. When OmniVerse was torn to pieces, she put it back with a thought instantaneously effortlessly. I actually always put someone to create (or recreate) above than just to destroy. Actually to put Omniverse back with a thought (everything in place) is greater feat than to destroy it (and she did both actually) and she could also destroy an OmniVerse with a thought effortlessly instantaneously.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Wanda still. Greater power display. Some could say IG didn't do such stuff, because of that and that, well Wanda actually did it. No one stopped her.

Wanda altered the existence of mutants and didn't even do it right. How's that comparable to Thanos dominating the embodiments of death, time, and space? Altering genetics and such is within the scopes of a Cube Being and Thanos had powers far beyond that. Get back to me when her feat is even comparable. He already made the Ultimate Nullifier look stupid. She has reality warping powers while he's got mastery over that and backed by 5 other soul gems.

She actually dominated the whole Marvel Omniverse. What is so hard to get here?

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Get back to me when her feat is even comparable.

Get back to you?

Not only comparable, but as you could see, even Mr Master said feat wise Wanda>Thanos with the IG

Well to be fair she did toss around/warp galactus on panel.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Well to be fair she did toss around/warp galactus on panel.

Like he was just a normal causal ant to her power. He was nothing more than that.

Originally posted by Xplosive
She actually dominated the whole Marvel Omniverse. What is so hard to get here?



Get back to you?

Not only comparable, but as you could see, even Mr Master said feat wise Wanda>Thanos with the IG

Lol. You make it sound as if she beat up the abstracts or something. Did she imprison Lady Death and Eternity or did I miss something. Oh wait no. Kinda easy to manipulate against something that doesn't fight back. Warlock destroyed an entire timeline, I guess he could beat Chronos in a fight. Letse her reality warp someone with a reality gem back by the other 5 gems.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Like he was just a normal causal ant to her power. He was nothing more than that.

Like when Magus with an incomplete IG contained the Ultimate Nullifiers blast? Yeah. Same thing is going to happen to Wanda.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Lol. You make it sound as if she beat up the abstracts or something. Did she imprison Lady Death and Eternity or did I miss something. Oh wait no. Kinda easy to manipulate against something that doesn't fight back.

Are you kidding or you really don't get it?

Originally posted by Xplosive
Are you kidding or you really don't get it?

I ain't kidding you. You act as if she beat Death and Eternity. The UN had such power and the IG stopped it cold. Why kid you when I have on panel evidence of the IG stomped these beings who tried there best only to get the heel of Thanos.

Also, the 616 and Wanda were lucky the Celestial Nullifier was broken otherwise both would have been nonexistent.

When Thanos with THOTI, after defeating LT and others, then went on absorbing other realities out of existence,... hm let Thanos with THOTI see if others would fight back... how he would do then.

I know Wanda can't compare to THOTI, but we could use that. We saw no one could fight against Chaos Wave, which was Wanda power. Galactus was a joke compared to it and it practically said Wanda was the most powerful being when her power were at the peak. Eternity didn't fight Wanda directly, but Eternity couldn do anything against her power.

Let see how would Wanda do against Galactus who would fight back?. I mean, do you think Galactus was just a joke there and tossed there, because he wanted it or because he was forced and couldn't do anything about it?.
Destroying an omniverse (tell me who did what Wanda did, how many can you name them). And on top of that, she did it easily. I mean she destroyed the omniverse not even directly with her power and no one could stop it and when she chose directly, she put it back with a though effortlessly and instantaneously. Destruction of an omniverse actually happened when Wanda was around (not only ''It could happen, it there wasn't for?...), but it actually happened. When her power was destroying Omniverse, where was Eternity and others to stop it? I mean they interfered for less and lesser powers. Did they just stood there? They simply couldn't do anything about it, that's why she did what she did, because they were useless. That's why it was said Wanda was the most powerful being when her power unleashed (''No matter how grandiose sentient being, this power topped them'' or something in that manner. I don't have a scan.). And she actually backed it up with a feat of such power that almost no being has in comic history (including Thanos with IG).

I mean, you simply don't get it.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Like when Magus with an incomplete IG contained the Ultimate Nullifiers blast? Yeah. Same thing is going to happen to Wanda. Owned Quasar. Who didn't even know the IG was activated. By manipulating a tiny sphere of nullification energy. lulz

Never ceases to amaze me how much traction the BA > Spectre fallacy actually has.

Magus owned the UN. Makes me believe he wins.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Owned Quasar. Who didn't even know the IG was activated. By manipulating a tiny sphere of nullification energy. lulz

Never ceases to amaze me how much traction the BA > Spectre fallacy actually has.

Tiny sphere or not it was nullification energy that energy manipulated. Whether Quasar knew the IG was activated or not didn't matter because it still wouldn't have changed his goal or wiping out Magus' citadel. He'd already release it's energy when the IG was activated seconds later. Third, what does BA have to do with this because it was never the writers intent to say BA was greater than the Spectre. In the case of the UN, it was even stated "a champion far from his home learns that the word ULTIMATE carries little weight in this current contest of titans." The UN meant little to the IG and got owned.

Originally posted by Blanket
Magus owned the UN. Makes me believe he wins. That coupled with the writer's own statements which mean little to odg who disregards what he wants and makes things up.

Originally posted by Xplosive
When Thanos with THOTI, after defeating LT and others, then went on absorbing other realities out of existence,... hm let Thanos with THOTI see if others would fight back... how he would do then.

I know Wanda can't compare to THOTI, but we could use that. We saw no one could fight against Chaos Wave, which was Wanda power. Galactus was a joke compared to it and it practically said Wanda was the most powerful being when her power were at the peak. Eternity didn't fight Wanda directly, but Eternity couldn do anything against her power.

Let see how would Wanda do against Galactus who would fight back?. I mean, do you think Galactus was just a joke there and tossed there, because he wanted it or because he was forced and couldn't do anything about it?.
Destroying an omniverse (tell me who did what Wanda did, how many can you name them). And on top of that, she did it easily. I mean she destroyed the omniverse not even directly with her power and no one could stop it and when she chose directly, she put it back with a though effortlessly and instantaneously. Destruction of an omniverse actually happened when Wanda was around (not only ''It could happen, it there wasn't for?...), but it actually happened. When her power was destroying Omniverse, where was Eternity and others to stop it? I mean they interfered for less and lesser powers. Did they just stood there? They simply couldn't do anything about it, that's why she did what she did, because they were useless. That's why it was said Wanda was the most powerful being when her power unleashed (''No matter how grandiose sentient being, this power topped them'' or something in that manner. I don't have a scan.). And she actually backed it up with a feat of such power that almost no being has in comic history (including Thanos with IG).

I mean, you simply don't get it.

Saturyn was going to kill her and the 616 with the Celestial Nullifier. What part of that don't you understand? Wanda doesn't even have cosmic awareness like him nor speed, he's going to remove her from extisence with a thought before she could think.

There are greater powers than CN and yet, why did no one stop Wanda? There are cosmic beings with cosmic awareness and why was no one aware of Wanda and what she was capable of (or because simply her power dwarfed them)? What happened with/to them? Oh yes, torn to pieces along with Omniverse and then put back with a thought. You think such power as Wanda can be removed from existence just like that? You think because she is a mutant and from ''flesh'' that she is actually vulnerable and can be put out just like that? When Omniverse was torn to pieces, it was nothing to her. When she obliterated 616, she was in the center (where was Eternity to stop her. Why didn't Eternity do anything, but was a joke to Scarlet Witch). Why wasn't she put out of existence. Why didn't such power put her out of existence?

And why it was said Wanda was the most powerful being in Omniverse (which she backed up with one of the greatest feat ever in comic history, inlcuding IG)?

Actually until yesterday, you didn't even know she destroyed and put back Omniverse with a thought. And you were saying to me, if I realized what she was capable off. Acutally, you had her just as some normal powerful reality warper.

I wouldn't be surprised if you would say Juggernaut is more durable than her.

UN > CN. I seriously doubt that the CN would work on her.

Originally posted by Xplosive
There are greater powers than CN and yet, why did no one stop Wanda? There are cosmic beings with cosmic awareness and why was no one aware of Wanda and what she was capable of (or because simply her power dwarfed them)? What happened with/to them? Oh yes, torn to pieces along with Omniverse and then put back with a thought. You think such power as Wanda can be removed from existence just like that? You think because she is a mutant and from ''flesh'' that she is actually vulnerable and can be put out just like that? When Omniverse was torn to pieces, it was nothing to her. When she obliterated 616, she was in the center (where was Eternity to stop her. Why didn't Eternity do anything, but was a joke to Scarlet Witch). Why wasn't she put out of existence. Why didn't such power put her out of existence?

And why it was said Wanda was the most powerful being in Omniverse (which she backed up with one of the greatest feat ever in comic history, inlcuding IG)?

Actually until yesterday, you didn't even know she destroyed and put back Omniverse with a thought. And you were saying to me, if I realized what she was capable off. Acutally, you had her just as some normal powerful reality warper.

I wouldn't be surprised if you would say Juggernaut is more durable than her.

Well, one could argue the LT and the likes knew what the outcome would be and didn't bother intervening because the omniverse would go on with comparatively minor alterations, so she was just a part of the normal cosmic process. But it's strictly speculative.

Originally posted by Xplosive
There are greater powers than CN and yet, why did no one stop Wanda? There are cosmic beings with cosmic awareness and why was no one aware of Wanda and what she was capable of (or because simply her power dwarfed them)? What happened with/to them? Oh yes, torn to pieces along with Omniverse and then put back with a thought. You think such power as Wanda can be removed from existence just like that? You think because she is a mutant and from ''flesh'' that she is actually vulnerable and can be put out just like that? When Omniverse was torn to pieces, it was nothing to her. When she obliterated 616, she was in the center (where was Eternity to stop her. Why didn't Eternity do anything, but was a joke to Scarlet Witch). Why wasn't she put out of existence. Why didn't such power put her out of existence?

So wait, we should believe that she's capable of destroying the Omniverse but that we she ignore Saturyne and Roma's threat of wiping her out from existence with the CN?



LOL. Until yesterday? WTF are you smoking? I asked what her best feat was that puts her above the IG. You people seem to think her feats gave her power over the IG which gives you mastery over reality. You don't seem to understand that. I already told you the UN possessed the same scope of destruction and yet the IG still owned it. Yet you people cling to that one feat as some how going to prevent her from getting kill by Thanos.



Juggernaut is more durable than her. Her best feat was surviving an arrow, even Wolverine can pull that one off. OMG, she warped the Omniverse therefore her durability must be OVER 9,000!!!!

Originally posted by galactusischere
Well to be fair she did toss around/warp galactus on panel. Thanos kinda did the same thing...

Thanos 7/10

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Thanos kinda did the same thing...

No he didn't.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
OMG, she warped the Omniverse therefore her durability must be OVER 9,000!!!!

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
So wait, we should believe that she's capable of destroying the Omniverse but that we she ignore Saturyne and Roma's threat of wiping her out from existence with the CN?

I thought that was only supposed to halt the wave from spreading into other realities. I don't think they knew what/who the source was.

But still why give Thanos the Ig.

He doesent need it.

If he has prep he will know what to do.

He can trap Wanda or teleport her into anouther dimision.

Originally posted by 753
Well, one could argue the LT and the likes knew what the outcome would be and didn't bother intervening because the omniverse would go on with comparatively minor alterations, so she was just a part of the normal cosmic process. But it's strictly speculative.

One of the options. But then we could say that for anyone who was in similar place. THOTI, Protege, Pre-R Beyonder,... (all more powerful than Wanda in my opinion). Or we can use that for any case actually.

I just think she dwarfed them as the narrator said. And with enormous feat she had, it's possible.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
So wait, we should believe that she's capable of destroying the Omniverse but that we she ignore Saturyne and Roma's threat of wiping her out from existence with the CN?

Roma herself said then that she had no chance against SW (or chaos wawe). She thought so, but found out that she was completely useless.



It's you who doesn't understand it. I mean, you come and ask such stupid questions or say ''What if Eternity would fight back''. I mean, who are you kidding? Really, are you joking?

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Juggernaut is more durable than her. Her best feat was surviving an arrow, even Wolverine can pull that one off. OMG, she warped the Omniverse therefore her durability must be OVER 9,000!!!!

Like I thought so. I mean, there is really nothing more to discuss with you.

Originally posted by Stranglehold300
But still why give Thanos the Ig.

He doesent need it.

If he has prep he will know what to do.

He can trap Wanda or teleport her into anouther dimision.

And you topped them all.

Just take away the Ig then this wont be a total stomp.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Tiny sphere or not it was nullification energy that energy manipulated. Whether Quasar knew the IG was activated or not didn't matter because it still wouldn't have changed his goal or wiping out Magus' citadel. He'd already release it's energy when the IG was activated seconds later. Third, what does BA have to do with this because it was never the writers intent to say BA was greater than the Spectre. In the case of the UN, it was even stated "a champion far from his home learns that the word ULTIMATE carries little weight in this current contest of titans." The UN meant little to the IG and got owned. Spectreforce was also manipulated. BA > Spectre according to your shallow reasoning. Fascinating. UN blinked out the Marvel Multiverse and recreated it. Get over it. Thanos was utterly impotent against Anomaly Maelstrom. Get over it.Originally posted by quanchi112
That coupled with the writer's own statements which mean little to odg who disregards what he wants and makes things up. Shut up, troll. We're speaking English here. Stop whining about your butt-hurtin. Go buy some cream at the corner store and be quiet.

Originally posted by Stranglehold300
Just take away the Ig then this wont be a total stomp. you really don't read comics do you...

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Shut up, troll. We're speaking English here. Stop whining about your butt-hurtin. Go buy some cream at the corner store and be quiet. victory

Stop baiting and bashing each other. I'm looking at Quan and ODG...sneer

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Spectreforce was also manipulated. BA > Spectre according to your shallow reasoning. Fascinating. UN blinked out the Marvel Multiverse and recreated it. Get over it.

Spectre force has been manipulated by punches? That's your argument? Well then the Spectre force has always been manipulated but if you want to claim. Did BA punch Spectre's head in? Yeah, but that doesn't make him more powerful than Spectre. It's not like the Spectre hasn't been vulnerable before.

As for the UN, who's manipulated it's energies like that before beside the IG? I'd love to know that one. Furthermore, I already know the UN wiped out the Multiverse so I don't see why you're bring this up as some kind of argument. The IG manipulated the UN energies and narration points out the UN is little compared the the IG. Get over it, that was shown as well.





And? Because Anomaly Maelstrom is also the UN?

Thanos was not adept to his power at all. Maelstrom even admitted to this. This is before Thanos fought any of the major abstracts. It takes a while for users to learn the IG, stated throughout the Infinity Gauntlet and Infinity War. Magus was the fastest learn while Nebula was the slowlest of all users. It took her a while to fight off the abstracts while they pressed on the fact that she had just gained the gems. Even Dr Strange survived against and new users attack.

^ Spectreforce energies were manipulated by Black Alice. Doesn't mean Black Alice is more powerful than Spectre. Don't be obtuse.

So any failure of Thanos at that time to hurt Maelstrom was due to his own limitations and is no reflection on the IG's true power? Yeah. Sound familiar? How about any failure of Quasar at that time to nullify Magus was due to his own limitations and is no reflection on the UN's true power?

Uh-duh. Pitiful double-standard if you can't admit this.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Spectreforce was also manipulated. BA > Spectre according to your shallow reasoning. Fascinating. UN blinked out the Marvel Multiverse and recreated it. Get over it. Thanos was utterly impotent against Anomaly Maelstrom. Get over it. Shut up, troll. We're speaking English here. Stop whining about your butt-hurtin. Go buy some cream at the corner store and be quiet. If the writer says something then why dismiss it?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Spectreforce energies were manipulated by Black Alice. Doesn't mean Black Alice is more powerful than Spectre. Don't be obtuse.

So any failure of Thanos at that time to hurt Maelstrom was due to his own limitations and is no reflection on the IG's true power? Yeah. Sound familiar? How about any failure of Quasar at that time to nullify Magus was due to his own limitations and is no reflection on the UN's true power?

Uh-duh. Pitiful double-standard if you can't admit this. No on is saying she is more powerful or just as powerful they are saying a writer when comparing the two said there is no comparison. It can also manipulate it's very power and can see the un user's intentions before it even occurs. The ig was also referred to as the supreme power basically in the 616 totally independent of the un or the manipulation thereof meaning your comparison isn't relevant here.

^ Your reliance on purple prose would be less strained if Infinity War was the ony storyline we could draw from. As it stands, any illusions are shattered once you begin accounting for the Abraxas storyline.

Unless y'know, ya want to ignore an entire story.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Your reliance on purple prose would be less strained if Infinity War was the ony storyline we could draw from. As it stands, any illusions are shattered once you begin accounting for the Abraxas storyline.

Unless y'know, ya want to ignore an entire story. I am not ignoring a story I am simply talking about a story that had both items in their and a writer compared them. A later feat from anyone doesn't prove he's stronger or more powerful just because the other character didn't attempt it. That's bad logic. Using feats to put characters higher while ignoring actual comparisons is the wrong way to debate imo.

^ Yes. When we argue Superman vs Wonderwoman, let's only use one story comparing their power and ignore any subsequent story where Wonderwoman unlocks heretofore unseen power from her bracers, I.e., magic lightning attacks.

Trying to pigeonhole this conversation into just Infinity War and ignoring another story that shows how powerful the UN truly is only because you wish it never happened and makes what the IG look like spit? That isn't debating. It's IDLI, IDH of the highest order.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Yes. When we argue Superman vs Wonderwoman, let's only use one story comparing their power and ignore any subsequent story where Wonderwoman unlocks heretofore unseen power from her bracers, I.e., magic lightning attacks.

Trying to pigeonhole this conversation into just Infinity War and ignoring another story that shows how powerful the UN truly is only because you wish it never happened and makes what the IG look like spit? That isn't debating. It's IDLI, IDH of the highest order. If Superman shows his superiority and WW has an incredible feat we don't assume she suddenly became more powerful than he is. The point is one writer compared the two and it's a noncontest while another writer showed a really neat feat which has nothing to do with the ig at all.

Busiek even said most writers just have things done to look really cool without placing a lot of thought in them. In no way does this mean the un is more powerful than the ig.

By your logic actual comparisons mean little and we just wait for awesome feats to decide what is more powerful.

^ Next time Wonderwoman shows the ability to instantly destroy and recreate the Marvel Multiverse, you best not ignore it.

Sorry that the Infinity Gauntlet's best feat is exponentially overshadowed by the Ultimate Nullifier's.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Next time Wonderwoman shows the ability to instantly destroy and recreate the Marvel Multiverse, you best not ignore it. How do you know the ig couldn't replicate it?

Originally posted by quanchi112
How do you know the ig couldn't replicate it? It can...

Originally posted by Black bolt z
It can... It's like saying since WW lifted a planet the size of the sun she is stronger than Superman when he wasn't there to attempt it.

Comparisons are how we judge superiority most of the time and with these two things they actually were compared.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It's like saying since WW lifted a planet the size of the sun she is stronger than Superman when he wasn't there to attempt it.

Comparisons are how we judge superiority most of the time and with these two things they actually were compared. I meant that the IG can replicate that feat.I acctually side with you on this one.I know...serious bonus points for you.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
I meant that the IG can replicate that feat.I acctually side with you on this one.I know...serious bonus points for you. I know I just went on to further my point with a theoretical explanation.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Spectreforce energies were manipulated by Black Alice. Doesn't mean Black Alice is more powerful than Spectre. Don't be obtuse.

Wait, so there was narration saying that Spectre meant little to Black Alice? Really? You got scans of that? 'cause narration makes that exact point comparing the two weapons. Don't leave out facts.



So you're pretty going to come to your own conclusion and ignore that Maelstrom says exact that Thanos isn't adept to using his powers? And that Thanos did just get his Gauntlet and all other users had to adjust to the Gauntlet. LOL.



Quasar with his cosmic awareness and had the Nullifier far longer than Magus had the Gauntlet active. The Magus took control of the Nullification energy seconds after his Gauntlet worked. It isn't double-standards. What you're saying would be true if Magus didn't own him seconds after receiving the Gauntlet and narration pointing out that the UN was not comparable to the IG - which was the writer's intent.

Originally posted by quanchi112
How do you know the ig couldn't replicate it? How do I know the UN couldn't nullify the LT a hundred times over? This is what we call a no-limits fallacy. If you want to play with fallacies like this, recognize that my no-limits fallacy beats your's.Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Wait, so there was narration saying that Spectre meant little to Black Alice? Really? You got scans of that? 'cause narration makes that exact point comparing the two weapons. Don't leave out facts.

So you're pretty going to come to your own conclusion and ignore that Maelstrom says exact that Thanos isn't adept to using his powers? And that Thanos did just get his Gauntlet and all other users had to adjust to the Gauntlet. LOL.

Quasar with his cosmic awareness and had the Nullifier far longer than Magus had the Gauntlet active. The Magus took control of the Nullification energy seconds after his Gauntlet worked. It isn't double-standards. What you're saying would be true if Magus didn't own him seconds after receiving the Gauntlet and narration pointing out that the UN was not comparable to the IG - which was the writer's intent. No, I just have Black Alice stealing the Spectreforce from Spectre. I also have Doom stealing the Power Cosmic from Surfer. The only facts that are being left out are the hundreds of examples where energy manipulation doesn't presume superiority in scope of power. Hal Jordan can absorb and wield the entire Central Power Battery, doesn't make him greater than it.

So you're going to ignore that an entire issue of Quasar was dedicated to the dangers of the UN, his inability to cope with the power of the UN, despite him traveling around and trying to educate himself about it? The Infinity Gauntlet didn't even come with an inherent instability and danger to it's wielder. The UN does. Neither did it even grant a user protection. The IG does. You're really going to ignore that? LOL.

Double-standard. Pitiful. Pathetic. Miserable. Delusional. Double. Standard. The intent of Marvel once they published a story where the UN instantly destroyed and recreated the Marvel Multiverse was to place it on a far greater scale than the IG could ever hope to approach. You need to deal with it.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No, I just have Black Alice stealing the Spectreforce from Spectre. I also have Doom stealing the Power Cosmic from Surfer. The only facts that are being left out are the hundreds of examples where energy manipulation doesn't presume superiority in scope of power. Hal Jordan can absorb and wield the entire Central Power Battery, doesn't make him greater than it.

Where in any of it do you have it saying that they're greater in power than what they're manipulating? It was spelled out the UN meant little to the IG.



So wait, you mean to say that Quasar didn't fire that shot off? I'm not ignoring anything. It's not like he didn't fire the thing.Because I recall him doing so and Magus control it's energies when he got the Gauntlet seconds after.

Reed never used it either but that didn't hinder his use either.



Are you done sharing your opinions? Because the IG owned the Nullifier on panel and in narration. The Abraxas Saga was about the Fantastic Four fighting off a character called Abraxas. That's why it's called the Abraxas Saga; it's about Abraxas, not the UN. Marvel did not decide to make this story to show the UN is greater in power than the IG.

Marvel also published the Infinity War. It was a sequel to the Infinity Gauntlet. In it, the three most powerful items in the MU were displayed: the Cosmic Containment Unit, the Ultimate Nullifier, and the Infinity Gauntlet. The most desired weapon was the IG. It also showed the IG owning the UN and even stated in narration to be clear to readers what the writers intent was: IG>UN.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Where in any of it do you have it saying that they're greater in power than what they're manipulating? It was spelled out the UN meant little to the IG.

So wait, you mean to say that Quasar didn't fire that shot off? I'm not ignoring anything. It's not like he didn't fire the thing.Because I recall him doing so and Magus control it's energies when he got the Gauntlet seconds after.

Reed never used it either but that didn't hinder his use either.

Are you done sharing your opinions? Because the IG owned the Nullifier on panel and in narration. The Abraxas Saga was about the Fantastic Four fighting off a character called Abraxas. That's why it's called the Abraxas Saga; it's about Abraxas, not the UN. Marvel did not decide to make this story to show the UN is greater in power than the IG. Comics also spelled out that the UN accomplished an exponentially greater feat than the IG ever did. Natch.

So wait... you're going to ignore that Thanos didn't fire a blast? I'm not ignoring anything. It's not like he didn't fire the thing.Because I recall him doing so and Maelstrom shrugged it off like a bad habit and made Thanos look like his b1tch.

Magus never used it either but that didn't hinder his use either.

Are you done sharing your opinions? Because the UN exponentially owned the IG on-panel when you compare the scope of their feats. Marvel did not intend to knock off the IG from its rung on the ladder. It was just a consequence of its exponentially greater feat. I'm sure editorial and Loeb couldn't care less about the IG.

You want to see the Infinity Gems in action? Read some Pet Avengers. lulz

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Comics also spelled out that the UN accomplished an exponentially greater feat than the IG ever did. Natch.

It did. But the IG can still control the UN's energies with mere thoughts. That was also shown.



Yeah he did. And Galactus and the abstracts have survived such attacks as well. Did I ever deny him surviving such an attack? I recall Maelstrom admitting that Thanos was not adept to the IG. And Thanos did just get the Gauntlet. Thanos isn't Magus. Warlock pointed out how fast Magus was at using it than either him or Thanos. It's not like he beat down a bunch of abstracts and then Maelstrom showed up and ignored his attack.




The UN performed a feat the IG has yet to do. The UN still got stomped by the IG so what's your point? It's range is far longer, but it's still was owned by the IG.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
It did. But the IG can still control the UN's energies with mere thoughts. That was also shown.

Yeah he did. And Galactus and the abstracts have survived such attacks as well. Did I ever deny him surviving such an attack? I recall Maelstrom admitting that Thanos was not adept to the IG. And Thanos did just get the Gauntlet. Thanos isn't Magus. Warlock pointed out how fast Magus was at using it than either him or Thanos. It's not like he beat down a bunch of abstracts and then Maelstrom showed up and ignored his attack.

The UN performed a feat the IG has yet to do. The UN still got stomped by the IG so what's your point? It's range is far longer, but it's still was owned by the IG.

LOL. You're bringing up Pet Avengers? And Black Alice can steal Dr. Fate's and Zatanna's and Spectre's energies with a mere gesture. Doesn't change the fact that all three are more powerful than Black Alice in isolation.

What you said still avoids the point. You're trying to excuse the IG's impotence by placing the blame on the user, yet you cannot bring yourself to do the same for the UN's impotence by placing the blame on the user (who spent an entire issue agonizing over how dangerous the UN is to its own wielder). Double. Standard.

The UN accomplished an exponentially greater feat than the IG. Which has shown no evidence of being able to replicate said feat. You want to imagine that the IG could do it to bring it to the UN's level? Fine. I'll imagine the UN destroys LT a hundred times over. Quasar was owned by Magus. I can own your face with a pistol while you hold a rocket launcher. I'm not going to pretend my pistol is more powerful than your rocket launcher.

LOL. You're ignoring Pet Avengers? And Abraxas? And Maelstrom? And Black Alice? And logic? And your double-standards?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
How do I know the UN couldn't nullify the LT a hundred times over? This is what we call a no-limits fallacy. If you want to play with fallacies like this, recognize that my no-limits fallacy beats your's.No, I just have Black Alice stealing the Spectreforce from Spectre. I also have Doom stealing the Power Cosmic from Surfer. The only facts that are being left out are the hundreds of examples where energy manipulation doesn't presume superiority in scope of power. Hal Jordan can absorb and wield the entire Central Power Battery, doesn't make him greater than it.

So you're going to ignore that an entire issue of Quasar was dedicated to the dangers of the UN, his inability to cope with the power of the UN, despite him traveling around and trying to educate himself about it? The Infinity Gauntlet didn't even come with an inherent instability and danger to it's wielder. The UN does. Neither did it even grant a user protection. The IG does. You're really going to ignore that? LOL.

Double-standard. Pitiful. Pathetic. Miserable. Delusional. Double. Standard. The intent of Marvel once they published a story where the UN instantly destroyed and recreated the Marvel Multiverse was to place it on a far greater scale than the IG could ever hope to approach. You need to deal with it. It's common sense. There is nothing to support it could own the Lt but when we had a writer actually compare the two there was no comparison. Just because loeb had the un perform such a feat there is no reason to assume the ig could not replicate the power required to do so especially when one writer already established the ig dwarfs it.

I am asking you a legit question here. If a character 2 performs a superior feat to character 1 after the fact character 1 was shown superior to character 2 do we then conclude character 2 is more powerful when character 1 never had the opportunity to do so and was left out of the story?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And Black Alice can steal Dr. Fate's and Zatanna's and Spectre's energies with a mere gesture. Doesn't change the fact that all three are more powerful than Black Alice in isolation.

What you said still avoids the point. You're trying to excuse the IG's impotence by placing the blame on the user, yet you cannot bring yourself to do the same for the UN's impotence by placing the blame on the user (who spent an entire issue agonizing over how dangerous the UN is to its own wielder). Double. Standard.

The UN accomplished an exponentially greater feat than the IG. Which has shown no evidence of being able to replicate said feat. You want to imagine that the IG could do it to bring it to the UN's level? Fine. I'll imagine the UN destroys LT a hundred times over. Quasar was owned by Magus. I can own your face with a pistol while you hold a rocket launcher. I'm not going to pretend my pistol is more powerful than your rocket launcher.

LOL. You're ignoring Pet Avengers? And Abraxas? And Maelstrom? And Black Alice? And logic? And your double-standards?

LMAO. The IG owned the Nullification energies. When has anybody don't that to it? On panel, it's even stated that out that the IG is more powerful than the UN. Black Alice can steal Dr. Fate and Spectre's powers? Woah, because they've never had their powers stolen before? Please. And did it even say that Black Alice was more powerful than them because she did that? 'Cause I recall it say the UN meant little to the IG between a contest of the two.

And yeah, why don't you do that. Say the UN destroys LT because it nullified the Multiverse which is greater than anything LT has EVER done. Start showing up in debates and make that argument since that's your position.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
And yeah, why don't you do that. Say the UN destroys LT because it nullified the Multiverse which is greater than anything LT has EVER done. Start showing up in debates and make that argument since that's your position.

LT was holding two megaverses in his hand, so no, UN doesn't have greater feat than LT.

And what UN did compared to Wanda is maybe 0.1%.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I think power wise Wanda>>IG easily. But she doesn't stomp or take a huge majority because Thanos is way more clever and less unstable. He could probably trick her into erasing herself or something like that.

The UN has more "raw power" than Wanda when it comes to erasing and resetting.. yet we saw how much good that did against and Incomplete IG in the hands of a less compotent user.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
The UN has more "raw power" than Wanda when it comes to erasing and resetting.. yet we saw how much good that did against and Incomplete IG in the hands of a less compotent user.
See here's the thing. I don't think an IG user would have any defense against remote Nullification. If you stood in another Universe and Nullified 616 I doubt the IG user could do a thing about it. When its a matter of user vs user things are different. A guy with a pistol can easily kill a man with a cannon if they're both at spitting range but its a whole different story when the cannoneer is sitting on a hill half a mile from the guy with the pistol.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
See here's the thing. I don't think an IG user would have any defense against remote Nullification. If you stood in another Universe and Nullified 616 I doubt the IG user could do a thing about it. When its a matter of user vs user things are different. A guy with a pistol can easily kill a man with a cannon if they're both at spitting range but its a whole different story when the cannoneer is sitting on a hill half a mile from the guy with the pistol.

I see the horrible analogy started by ODG shows its ugly face again. If said pistol could manipulate the hill, the cannon, the cannon ball or whatever it chooses... that speaks volumes about superiority. You're only focused on one feat and somehow equating that to superiority.... A failed fallacy by ODG. Is Wolverine superior to Sabertooth because he has more OMG feats than Sabertooth? The Thing has more impressive lifting feats than Thanos.. does that make him stronger. Have a uber feat and somehow making that the standard for winning a battle is horrible logic. IG is more versatile than the UN and makes one God below the LT of said Universe(s). One feat in one area.. nullification and resetting hardly makes someone or something superior. Especially when said thing it's going against has never even attempted nor tried to replicate said feat. Just because Gamora is a better MA than Thanos.. does that mean she beats him in a h2h affair? No because one area of superiority means dick to an overall fight.

By the way.. no I don't agree that a remote user would be able to do anything still to an IG user. I'm not sure how that changes a thing. You're using a assumption that you can't support that IG only manipulated Quasar.. it seemed more to me like he manipulated the nullification sphere NOT quasar. Thus the user was irrelvant when you have control over said energies.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
The UN has more "raw power" than Wanda when it comes to erasing and resetting...

How so? How did conclude this? By feats? No. By what else?

Very easily.. one did both in a instant... the other started a wave that was GOING to do that over time.

didnt the wave actually desintegrate the omniverse and then remade it?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Very easily.. one did both in a instant... the other started a wave that was GOING to do that over time.

Imagine if Wanda can subconsciously destroy an Omniverse, with no one stopping it, what would that mean if directly? Oh yeah, you forgot she did it directly, putting Omniverse back with a thought instantaneously.

And didn't UN destroy and put Multiverse back? How can Multiverse compare to Omniverse, which is much much much much much... much bigger than Multiverse?. And yes, Wanda put OMNIVERSE back with a thought instantaneously.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
The UN has more "raw power" than Wanda when it comes to erasing and resetting.. yet we saw how much good that did against and Incomplete IG in the hands of a less compotent user.

So again. How did you conclude this?