Explosions in Moscow Metro

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SamZED
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8592190.stm

"At least 37 people have been killed after two female suicide bombers blew themselves up on Moscow Metro trains in the morning rush hour..."
29 March 2010

I've been on that station just yeserday and my cousin was in a train that was following the one that exploded. When will this sh!t stop.

Lord Lucien
When Putin re-installs Russia's powah.

Bicnarok

Wild Shadow
sigh,... what has russia bn doing to others to cause the women to become suicide bombers?

aside from its failed attempt at Communism thx to outside help as within, corrupt government, KGB and their own past war with Afghanistan?

inimalist
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
sigh,... what has russia bn doing to others to cause the women to become suicide bombers?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chechnya

Wild Shadow
that's a lot of $H!t..?!


no wonder they did it, my question is why hasnt anyone done something sooner?

inimalist
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
that's a lot of $H!t..?!


no wonder they did it, my question is why hasnt anyone done something sooner?

they have:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chechen_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis

Wild Shadow
and now we know and knowing is half the battle, G.I. joe!

The Dark Cloud
Originally posted by SamZED
When will this sh!t stop.


When everything in the world that isn't Islam has been eliminated.

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
When everything in the world that isn't Islam has been eliminated. nonsense.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
When everything in the world that isn't Islam has been eliminated.

Or Vice-versa.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
nonsense.

Though you have to admit that probably would stop it.

Wild Shadow
doubt it. how many islamic nations and ppl are still fighting each other even when sharing the same religious views.

the problem is poor education and tribal type mentality imo.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Though you have to admit that probably would stop it.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
doubt it. how many islamic nations and ppl are still fighting each other even when sharing the same religious views.

the problem is poor education and tribal type mentality imo.

What this guy said.



Also, without it, humans would still kill each other. We don't need islam to have terrorists, as fact.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by dadudemon
What this guy said.



Also, without it, humans would still kill each other. We don't need islam to have terrorists, as fact. Damn right, we still got Oklahoma.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Damn right, we still got Oklahoma.

Normally I would think that was a really stupid statement, but I've been to Oklahoma. laughing

dadudemon
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Damn right, we still got Oklahoma.
Yeah, that was pretty bad. Christian extremists. ha. so funny. (not funny that people are murdered, but that Christians don't want to admit that people like that exist...and Christians are STILL murdering people in the name of God.)

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by dadudemon
Yeah, that was pretty bad. Christian extremists. ha. so funny. (not funny that people are murdered, but that Christians don't want to admit that people like that exist...and Christians are STILL murdering people in the name of God.) Supposed to be a WHEEE post......

Wild Shadow
i am pretty sure the motivation behind the Oklahoma city bombing had more to do as retaliation for abuse of federal power on its citizens of wako and ruby ridge. the fact that Timothy McVeigh was christian had very little to do with it or at least only his strong desire of righteous justice.

but blaming Christianity as its base foundation and reasoning is kinda faulty logic.

that's like blaming the majority of the nation's crimes as a christian act since the criminals more then likely are christian believers or were born into a christian belief family.

Rogue Jedi
People are crazy. They are gonna blow shit up. Life sucks, get a helmet?

Wild Shadow
nah,, i sympathize with some of these ppl it is how they go about it trying to effect change i dont agree with..

its like watching a suspense movie and seeing all the mistakes that the main characters are doing and screaming dont do that!!! ur leaving evidence!! why did you just tell your ex wife who hates you what you plan on doing?!!


my view is fight the power but, be militarily and strategically precise. if you have access to high explosive wpns then it stands to reason you can plan.

killing and harming ur average citizen is not cool... go for military, federal law enforcement buildings only or police station. not random workof business areas. at least call in a bomb/gas leak threat to clear the building of innocent ppl and just blow the building the message will be just as good.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
i am pretty sure the motivation behind the Oklahoma city bombing had more to do as retaliation for abuse of federal power on its citizens of wako and ruby ridge. the fact that Timothy McVeigh was christian had very little to do with it or at least only his strong desire of righteous justice.

but blaming Christianity as its base foundation and reasoning is kinda faulty logic.

that's like blaming the majority of the nation's crimes as a christian act since the criminals more then likely are christian believers or were born into a christian belief family.

The fact that you think that the OKC Bombing had little to nothing to do with the perps' Christianity is absurdly ignorant.

no expression

Rogue Jedi
My point was that some people do it for the lulz, they have no agenda other than doing it just cuz.

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by dadudemon
The fact that you think that the OKC Bombing had little to nothing to do with the perps' Christianity is absurdly ignorant.

no expression all i am saying one of his driving motivation factors was ruby ridge and wako... that is a fact. since he went to the sites to pay respect and comment on the government abuse of power to reporter about his views.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
killing and harming ur average citizen is not cool... go for military, federal law enforcement buildings only or police station. not random workof business areas. at least call in a bomb/gas leak threat to clear the building of innocent ppl and just blow the building the message will be just as good.

Remember folks, once you side with the government you're no longer a citizen!

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Remember folks, once you side with the government you're no longer a citizen! that is not what i said. no expression

dadudemon
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
all i am saying one of his driving motivation factors was ruby ridge and wako...

And now we are full circle, back to Christianity.

Also, McVeigh was involved with the same ideals that the Christian extremists have.

Again, back to Christianity.


Tim did not need to be a Christian extremist, himself, to be perpetuating the orgins of those beliefs/ideals came from White Supremicist Christians. As fact.



Originally posted by Wild Shadow
hat is a fact. since he went to the sites to pay respect and comment on the government abuse of power to reporter about his views.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh

K.


But, just to be clear, his actions, his motivations, his associations...which lead to the murdering of innocents, was disgustingly tied Christianity.


Just like Islam, Jesus can be tainted into disgusting forms.


Seems silly that we can connect Christianity, quite easily, to Tim's actions, but would he have comitted any of those actions if those beliefs didn't even exist? The fact that those same ideals are still spewed by white supremicist groups, anti-government-Christian groups, etc. means that we will still continue to have Christian related terror, for a long time to come.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by dadudemon
...
Seems silly that we can connect Christianity, quite easily, to Tim's actions, but would he have comitted any of those actions if those beliefs didn't even exist? The fact that those same ideals are still spewed by white supremicist groups, anti-government-Christian groups, etc. means that we will still continue to have Christian related terror, for a long time to come.

I think the answer to your question is: Yes. Ultimately Christianity is just a tool used by people. That brings us back to Tim.

Wild Shadow
i wonder what white supremacist would think or do if jesus came back in all his dark skin jewish hebrew dark wool like hair glory in ancient regional clothing.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
i wonder what white supremacist would think or do if jesus came back in all his dark skin jewish hebrew dark wool like hair glory in ancient regional clothing.


laughing out loud

Moscow
Europe (and I include Russia in this) is more heavily Muslim than America is by a long shot-- I think in the UK it's over 10%, which is quite a lot in their population numbers. Increasingly, al-Qaeda and the Taliban are using women to do their dirty work, and Russia's been having major problems with its heavy Muslim population in each of the "-stan" countrires and its province of Checnya.

**Sidenote. My user name had 37 people die this morning.

Moment of silence sadangel

Mindset
Originally posted by Moscow
Europe (and I include Russia in this) is more heavily Muslim than America is by a long shot-- I think in the UK it's over 10%, which is quite a lot in their population numbers. Increasingly, al-Qaeda and the Taliban are using women to do their dirty work, and Russia's been having major problems with its heavy Muslim population in each of the "-stan" countrires and its province of Checnya.

**Sidenote. My user name had 37 people die this morning.

Moment of silence sadangel Not really, US has a larger Muslim population than the UK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Muslim_population

Moscow
I got the "over 10%" thing wrong in my post embarrasment

However, Mindset, the US has a much larger population than the UK. The Muslim ratio is .8% here in the US. In the UK it is 2.7%

That's a big difference in terms of the countries.

There are more Muslims in the UK (re: you see a lot more of them) than in the US

dadudemon
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
i wonder what white supremacist would think or do if jesus came back in all his dark skin jewish hebrew dark wool like hair glory in ancient regional clothing.


He may be dark skinned, but he'll have white hair. Be it from being an older looking man, or simply beacuse of his "awesomness".

inimalist
Originally posted by dadudemon
The fact that you think that the OKC Bombing had little to nothing to do with the perps' Christianity is absurdly ignorant.

no expression

ummm, while McVeigh might have spent time at Elohim and associated with people with very strong religious convictions, his motivations (be means of his confessions and some reading of his personal history) seem to be way more in line with what Wild Shadow is describing.

Even the pages of the Turner Diaries that he left at the scene. They weren't the racialized or religious ones, but rather issues pertaining to abuses of gvt power.

Also, McVeigh had taken a pilgramige to Ruby Ridge and was present at Waco during the standoff. The Religification of McVeigh's acts has been a strange trend, especially in academia (where they want to compare McVeigh and Bin Laden), that at least in my opinion is, at best, overstated. I tend to think it just suits the pre-drawn conclusions of the people doing the research.

Mindset
Originally posted by Moscow
I got the "over 10%" thing wrong in my post embarrasment

However, Mindset, the US has a much larger population than the UK. The Muslim ratio is .8% here in the US. In the UK it is 2.7%

That's a big difference in terms of the countries.

There are more Muslims in the UK (re: you see a lot more of them) than in the US Not really that big of a difference, and some estimates put the Muslim population in the US around 7 million.

inimalist
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
my view is fight the power but, be militarily and strategically precise. if you have access to high explosive wpns then it stands to reason you can plan.

killing and harming ur average citizen is not cool... go for military, federal law enforcement buildings only or police station. not random workof business areas. at least call in a bomb/gas leak threat to clear the building of innocent ppl and just blow the building the message will be just as good.

right, because giving the police the reason to crack down on even the most modest political dissenters is "planning"

EDIT: Al Qaeda is also more effective than the Basque. If the FLQ taught us anything, terrorism needs a body count

Moscow
Originally posted by Mindset
Not really that big of a difference, and some estimates put the Muslim population in the US around 7 million.

A true City Data publication and not some Wikipedia site will give the true answer as to the demographics of a country.

It matters actually how large the country is in terms of population and to the ratio of the race and background of a people in it.

By 2009 standards, the US has almost 310 million people. The UK has just over 61 million people.

If Wiki is right, that 2.7 % is a big chunk of the UK's people compared to the .8% of the US's people.

inimalist
nvm

SamZED
Originally posted by Moscow
Europe (and I include Russia in this) is more heavily Muslim than America is by a long shot-- I think in the UK it's over 10%, which is quite a lot in their population numbers. Increasingly, al-Qaeda and the Taliban are using women to do their dirty work, and Russia's been having major problems with its heavy Muslim population in each of the "-stan" countrires and its province of Checnya.

**Sidenote. My user name had 37 people die this morning.

Moment of silence sadangel But most of them come from CIS and have as much to do with Islam as me with Angelina Jolie (as in nothing at all) They think that greeting with "Salam aleykom" instead of "Hey" makes you a muslim, that's it.
And please people lets not bring the whole "blame Islam" crap to this thread, reminds me of the old south park song.

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by dadudemon
He may be dark skinned, but he'll have white hair. Be it from being an older looking man, or simply because of his "awesomeness". jesus floating from the sky to the ground walking and blessing ppl speaking Aramaic,greek, latin, hebrew...


Supremacist: its one of them illegal aliens, kill it.. damn antichrist. it said its name was Emmanuel must be from mexico.. its another one of them obama traps to divide us, dont fall for that n$#@!$ lie!! stay strong and faithful our real savior will deliver us from this evil.

we know jesus christ was of nordic descent and kidnapped by jews and sent to the middle east, he aint no sand [email protected]@#$#!!

inimalist
I thought Jesus was born in America among the Jewish Native American tribes?

Wild Shadow
that is what the mormons think i think.

dadudemon
Originally posted by inimalist
ummm, while McVeigh might have spent time at Elohim and associated with people with very strong religious convictions, his motivations (be means of his confessions and some reading of his personal history) seem to be way more in line with what Wild Shadow is describing.

Even the pages of the Turner Diaries that he left at the scene. They weren't the racialized or religious ones, but rather issues pertaining to abuses of gvt power.

Also, McVeigh had taken a pilgramige to Ruby Ridge and was present at Waco during the standoff. The Religification of McVeigh's acts has been a strange trend, especially in academia (where they want to compare McVeigh and Bin Laden), that at least in my opinion is, at best, overstated. I tend to think it just suits the pre-drawn conclusions of the people doing the research.

I think it is understated at how deep his Christian based ideals went. Our government needs to start looking a lot harder at these very much, christian based trends. The individual can profess agnosticism, but that doesn't change the origin of the ideals, which was my point.


If those ideals weren't around, would Tim have invented them? I think not. Seems a very big stretch to think he would invent the Christian conservative idea that "the gummunt is eeeee ville and needs some overhaulin'!"

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
that is what the mormons think i think.


No.

Wild Shadow
well how would i know... i am not mormon and it wasnt covered in my religious cultural courses. its their fault for not being more open about their religion.

Moscow
Open Mormons? Salt Lake City is good enough for them

dadudemon
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
well how would i know... i am not mormon and it wasnt covered in my religious cultural courses. its their fault for not being more open about their religion.


laughing


Don't get your panties in a bunch: all I said was "no."

inimalist
Originally posted by dadudemon
I think it is understated at how deep his Christian based ideals went. Our government needs to start looking a lot harder at these very much, christian based trends. The individual can profess agnosticism, but that doesn't change the origin of the ideals, which was my point.

If those ideals weren't around, would Tim have invented them? I think not. Seems a very big stretch to think he would invent the Christian conservative idea that "the gummunt is eeeee ville and needs some overhaulin'!"

1) there are 2 movements. The survivalist movement and the christian patriot movement. They have bled together since the 70s, but it is wrong to confuse the two. McVeigh seems to be much more of a survivalist who used the oportunities presented by the christian patriots (there are few non-racist survivalist communities remaining anyways, if there ever were many) than a christian patriot proper. There is no evidence that his religiosity was a primary motivating factor in his violence. History isn't black and white, so it isn't that he is one or the other, but it is far too much of a generalization to understand McVeigh or the ideology he came from as a single unitary movement.

2) There are two issues here. There are the issues of McVeigh's personal motivations to violence, and there is the issue of Christian patriots in general. McVeigh, as in, what he talks about and what he says motivated him, is related almost exclusively to "New World Order", anti-government conspiracy. Yes, this is part of a greater ideology held by the Christian patriots, but that doesn't mean religion played a role in McVeighs action, per se. You might as well blame Edmud Burke, because you can use enough words and connenct the ideas of the two.

3) Here is my biggest issue. What you are saying is like saying: "Hamas violence is religious violence". There may be undenyable religious undertones to the situation, but you could remove religion from the equation and still understand why Hamas is violent. This is an important distinction, because when one looks at Al Qaeda, this is not the case (and this is why Al Qaeda gets less support in the arab world than these nationalist struggles do). Bin Laden, for all of his other excuses, makes very little sense without the perspective of religion. So, for as much as McVeigh benefitted from sharing ideas with christian people, the FLQ benefitted from the Catholic culture of Quebec during their violence. To then say either religion was an important motivating factor in these people is not, imho, correct.

If you have some data you think supports your point better than "well, he hung out with Christians who believed the same thing", I'm thinking you are overgeneralizing the ideologies of two groups that require distinctions.

For instance, the FBI just arrested a bunch of people who were plotting to kill police officers. These people were from the Christian patriot movement. The Michigan Militia, a survivalist-esque group, immediatly condemned their acts as being those of a religious cult. It is almost certain the Michigan Militia is at least sympathetic to the views of those who fear the NWO.

EDIT: Hamas isn't as good of an example as Hezbullah or Kashmiri insurgents, but it does work (though the entire Israeli-palestinian conflict does require some religious perspective to figure out). I used Hamas because I've already dropped the Basques and FLQ, and didn't want to just sound like I was name-dropping obscure resistance groups.

dadudemon
Originally posted by inimalist
1) there are 2 movements. The survivalist movement and the christian patriot movement. They have bled together since the 70s, but it is wrong to confuse the two. McVeigh seems to be much more of a survivalist who used the oportunities presented by the christian patriots (there are few non-racist survivalist communities remaining anyways, if there ever were many) than a christian patriot proper. There is no evidence that his religiosity was a primary motivating factor in his violence. History isn't black and white, so it isn't that he is one or the other, but it is far too much of a generalization to understand McVeigh or the ideology he came from as a single unitary movement.

2) There are two issues here. There are the issues of McVeigh's personal motivations to violence, and there is the issue of Christian patriots in general. McVeigh, as in, what he talks about and what he says motivated him, is related almost exclusively to "New World Order", anti-government conspiracy. Yes, this is part of a greater ideology held by the Christian patriots, but that doesn't mean religion played a role in McVeighs action, per se. You might as well blame Edmud Burke, because you can use enough words and connenct the ideas of the two.

3) Here is my biggest issue. What you are saying is like saying: "Hamas violence is religious violence". There may be undenyable religious undertones to the situation, but you could remove religion from the equation and still understand why Hamas is violent. This is an important distinction, because when one looks at Al Qaeda, this is not the case (and this is why Al Qaeda gets less support in the arab world than these nationalist struggles do). Bin Laden, for all of his other excuses, makes very little sense without the perspective of religion. So, for as much as McVeigh benefitted from sharing ideas with christian people, the FLQ benefitted from the Catholic culture of Quebec during their violence. To then say either religion was an important motivating factor in these people is not, imho, correct.

If you have some data you think supports your point better than "well, he hung out with Christians who believed the same thing", I'm thinking you are overgeneralizing the ideologies of two groups that require distinctions.

For instance, the FBI just arrested a bunch of people who were plotting to kill police officers. These people were from the Christian patriot movement. The Michigan Militia, a survivalist-esque group, immediatly condemned their acts as being those of a religious cult. It is almost certain the Michigan Militia is at least sympathetic to the views of those who fear the NWO.


I still hold what I said as correct.

I don't have time to read what you posted.

However, it is not even semantics to say it was unrelated or it was related to some of the Christian extremeist ideals. They were very closely related and some were taken directly from the Christian extremist ideals.

There might be a discussion if he hadn't associated with the people he did, and presented the "materials" that he did.

Wild Shadow
i dont like the negative connotation of a survivalist. all it is, is being knowledgeable in certain things without the reliance of modern society technology.

Moscow
**Breaking News** on parts of the topic that inimalist and Dadudemon are talking about

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/28/hutaree-christian-militia_n_516533.html

inimalist
Originally posted by dadudemon
However, it is not even semantics to say it was unrelated or it was related to some of the Christian extremeist ideals. They were very closely related and some were taken directly from the Christian extremist ideals.

thats the thing. There is no evidence that it was McVeigh's Christianity that lead him to be suspiscious of the government, but rather, events like ruby ridge and waco. I've seen nothing that challanges this, and, not to brag, but I've read quite a bit on this...

for instance: Jon and Nazis believe there need to be greater controls on immigration. Even if Jon hangs out with Nazis, this a) doesn't make him motivated by ideology or b) mean the origins of his distrust for immigrants comes from nazi ideas.

Originally posted by dadudemon
There might be a discussion if he hadn't associated with the people he did, and presented the "materials" that he did.

which materials do you think support religious motivation?

inimalist
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
i dont like the negative connotation of a survivalist. all it is, is being knowledgeable in certain things without the reliance of modern society technology.

its a big movement, but no, it shouldn't be used as a pejorative

do you know many non-racist survivalist groups around today though?

Wild Shadow
a lot of these militias can get over on the government and wpns laws if they establish themselves as a independent military security contractors. then they can get money buy various wpns and explosives use training try it out over seas and supply their ppl. on a side note.

big5Kd0--b8

inimalist

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by inimalist
its a big movement, but no, it shouldn't be used as a pejorative

do you know many non-racist survivalist groups around today though? just me and ppl in the military and my one or two friends i teach in survival, hunting tracking and making it look easy and cool.

besides i live in Nevada and run across certain cool dudes that aint racist redneck ignorant yogals but are into the same survival aspects as me.


i plan on making them book of eli: Denzel Washington and the Benicio Del Toro hunted cool finishing it off with Mark Wahlberg, shooter for a little added badassness.

inimalist
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
just me and ppl in the military and my one or two friends i teach in survival, hunting tracking and making it look easy and cool.

besides i live in Nevada and run across certain cool dudes that aint racist redneck ignorant yogals but are into the same survival aspects as me.


i plan on making them book of eli: Denzel Washington and the Benicio Del Toro hunted cool finishing it off with Mark Wahlberg for a little added badassness.

very cool

I've always wanted to learn a little of the survival stuff, living in Canada there is a ton of wilderness and we are raised with a little bit of it

but no, I'm totally with you on this stuff, you just have to admit, there is a level of craziness involved with some people who are part of "survivalism" as an identity movement

Wild Shadow
1st lesson watch plenty of action survival movies. then research online how something works or how to build it. then find a friend who has military training and has 1st hand knowledge and can explain the mental process of doing and behaving a certain way.


the key to this is being actually interested.


also try not to be in the woods in bear territory who have cubs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUO9rqfDCXc&feature=related
rjptQSfuTy8

dadudemon
Originally posted by inimalist
thats the thing. There is no evidence that it was McVeigh's Christianity that lead him to be suspiscious of the government, but rather, events like ruby ridge and waco. I've seen nothing that challanges this, and, not to brag, but I've read quite a bit on this...

I agree there. And, I"m not saying that it was Tim's "Christianity" that lead to that, either. However, his actions were heavily influenced by certain Christian ideals.

Originally posted by inimalist
for instance: Jon and Nazis believe there need to be greater controls on immigration. Even if Jon hangs out with Nazis, this a) doesn't make him motivated by ideology or b) mean the origins of his distrust for immigrants comes from nazi ideas.

However, it would be foolish; especially if Jon has antisemitic reading materials, quotes from antisemites in his "murdering" sprees, and gets materials/has dealings with anitsemites; to conclude that he must be operating independently of antisemitic ideals.



If it smells like a fish, looks like a fish, was born from a fish, it must be:

a) A fish.
b) A mutated fish (which applies to Tim)
c) Not a fish.



This is what my career will be in, for at least a decade or two: cyber security, homeland security, domestic terror prevention/mitigation, etc. So, it's good that I talk about this shit, now, rather than later when it's my day job.

Mindset
Originally posted by Moscow
A true City Data publication and not some Wikipedia site will give the true answer as to the demographics of a country.

It matters actually how large the country is in terms of population and to the ratio of the race and background of a people in it.

By 2009 standards, the US has almost 310 million people. The UK has just over 61 million people.

If Wiki is right, that 2.7 % is a big chunk of the UK's people compared to the .8% of the US's people. If wikipedia uses reputable sources, which in this case it does, then there's no difference.

I'm aware, except in this case the percentages are so small that it doesn't matter, 2.7% is not a big chunk of the population. The difference of 2% is not that significant.

inimalist
Originally posted by dadudemon
I agree there. And, I"m not saying that it was Tim's "Christianity" that lead to that, either. However, his actions were heavily influenced by certain Christian ideals.



However, it would be foolish; especially if Jon has antisemitic reading materials, quotes from antisemites in his "murdering" sprees, and gets materials/has dealings with anitsemites; to conclude that he must be operating independently of antisemitic ideals.



If it smells like a fish, looks like a fish, was born from a fish, it must be:

a) A fish.
b) A mutated fish (which applies to Tim)
c) Not a fish.



This is what my career will be in, for at least a decade or two: cyber security, homeland security, domestic terror prevention/mitigation, etc. So, it's good that I talk about this shit, now, rather than later when it's my day job.

can you show me the sources you have where McVeigh makes clear his religious influence?

like, I understood your point, I just don't think the data is there, please show me

WickedDynamite
A sad tragedy indeed...


Well, hope no one blames MW2 for this one.

Moscow
Originally posted by Mindset
If wikipedia uses reputable sources, which in this case it does, then there's no difference.

I'm aware, except in this case the percentages are so small that it doesn't matter, 2.7% is not a big chunk of the population. The difference of 2% is not that significant.

Wikipedia's alright. My professors constantly harass it, and I can see why. If some idiot writes something on there that's not factually based, then the picture is skewed badly. But, yeah, the difference doesn't sound big, but trust me.

I've been to London and to New York-- two cities with large Muslim populations. You can easily tell which one looks more populated, and the UK's small land area and smaller population equals a more denser outlook.

roll eyes (sarcastic) I think both of us are beating a dead horse anyway. Anyhow, there's Muslims here... just trying to live out a normal life. Until the rabid anti-Arab people come in and start harassing them.

inimalist
Originally posted by Moscow
Wikipedia's alright. My professors constantly harass it, and I can see why. If some idiot writes something on there that's not factually based, then the picture is skewed badly. But, yeah, the difference doesn't sound big, but trust me.


studies show wikipedia is not more subject to bias or error than any other reputable encyclopedia. Many changes have been made to the editing policy to make it more peer reviewed and nobody can just "change" pages anymore. Further, wiki has been praised for its ability to bring fast paced news from international events to people in an unbiased (as much as possible) manner, and has been recognized by international media organizations with awards.

for its faults (like any encyclopedia, it is not an academic source, though modern APA citation standards do include "wiki" sourcing) Wikipedia gets way less credit than it deserves.

that aside, the data you are talking about is basic demographics which wikipedia sources from and links to the very government data you suggested was more valid.

Moscow
Fair enough. I use Wikipedia a lot anyway. It's kind of a bookmark on my computer

dadudemon
K.


Soldier of Fortune(mag, not outright Christian but something that would be associated with radical Christians (arguable, I know)), Spotlight (mag, not outright Christian but something that would be associated with radical Christians.(arguable, I know)), The Turner Diaries, maybe some others that I'm not thinking of. A millions upon millions of papers were written on this. I don't have access to all of the "materials" collected and catalogued that were associated with Timothy McVeigh.

So, how is "The Turner Diaries" not good enough in it's own right?

But what about his associations with others? Why does that not count?

What about the massive amounts of parallels his ideals have with the Christian Patriot and Identity Movements? How come those don't count?

What about his anger/frustration about two different incidents, which include the killing of Christians that were part of this Christian Identity and Patriot movements? (Randy wasn't necessarily an Aryan-type, but he WAS a Christian with Christian Patriot beliefs.)


I am not saying that Tim was a staunch Christian, I'm saying his terrorism was influenced from radical "Christian ideals."

Bicnarok

inimalist
Originally posted by dadudemon
K.


Soldier of Fortune(mag, not outright Christian but something that would be associated with radical Christians (arguable, I know)), Spotlight (mag, not outright Christian but something that would be associated with radical Christians.(arguable, I know)), The Turner Diaries, maybe some others that I'm not thinking of. A millions upon millions of papers were written on this. I don't have access to all of the "materials" collected and catalogued that were associated with Timothy McVeigh.

So, how is "The Turner Diaries" not good enough in it's own right?

But what about his associations with others? Why does that not count?

What about the massive amounts of parallels his ideals have with the Christian Patriot and Identity Movements? How come those don't count?

What about his anger/frustration about two different incidents, which include the killing of Christians that were part of this Christian Identity and Patriot movements? (Randy wasn't necessarily an Aryan-type, but he WAS a Christian with Christian Patriot beliefs.)


I am not saying that Tim was a staunch Christian, I'm saying his terrorism was influenced from radical "Christian ideals."

Originally posted by dadudemon
To quote a wise philospher: Fair enough. big grin

WickedDynamite
Video of the Aftermath:

6PdyocevTAk&feature=popular

Props to the Russians for keep going on with their lives. thumb up

jinXed by JaNx
Originally posted by WickedDynamite
A sad tragedy indeed...


Well, hope no one blames MW2 for this one.

Shit, i'll be happy if America isn't blamed.

WickedDynamite
Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
Shit, i'll be happy if America isn't blamed.

Eventually....

Here is a picture of the bomber:

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/1053/capt2be1f07ea2634d219e1.jpg

Now they're finally together in the burning pits of hell.

inimalist
Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
Shit, i'll be happy if America isn't blamed.

general opinion in Russia holds that the American war on terror has increased the violence in the Caucasus (debatably true, though Russia has done little to engage the region). More extreme, though comparable in popularity to some of the more esoteric conspiracy theories in the West, is that America is actively funding Caucasian Islamist groups to fight Russia, which imho (and according to the individuals I saw speaking about it on Al Jazeera) is not true at all.

_lypDNA4l2o

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