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Nova

I would say for all of Nova's power, Maj still probably takes it via fighting skill. Though it's a really good fight.

gotta go with Mr. Majestic 7/10

Majestic.

Tough one. Majestic is stronger, although Nova's gravity manipulation nullifies that. Both move at FTL speeds. Both are good h2h although I'd give Majestic the edge there. Nova is probably more durable. Much more so if you include shielding. Both have the ability to ends fights without slugging it out. Majestic with his do it all laser vision, Nova with his Nova Force and gravity tricks. I see one of two scenarios playing out.

1) They trade blows. Nova pins Majestic with a gravimetric bubble and begins a lecture. While Nova monolouges, Majestic reprograms the WM and cuts Rich off from the Nova Force. He then tears Richard in half.

2) Majestic launches an assualt at Nova. Nova soaks up some damage. Majestic wonders why Nova isn't really fighting back when all of a sudden he finds that he can't move at all. Nova explains that, "while Majestic was busy Pounding on him, he was busy weaving a thin layer of gravity around Majestic". Now he's too heavy to move. Then Nova hit's him with a compressed gravimetric pulse for the KO.

It all depends on which scenario you can envision playing out the most. But if Nova doesn't phuck around, I see him taking it 7/10. If he screws around, he gets ass raped 9/10.

I dont think majestic can reprogram worldmind, reed richards was like a groupie arround it, dialogue made it clear worldmind>RR. Could go either way, but Nova would likely have to get creative with stargates to win here.

Majestic.

Does Majestic have his weapons?

Originally posted by dmills
Tough one. Majestic is stronger, although Nova's gravity manipulation nullifies that. Both move at FTL speeds. Both are good h2h although I'd give Majestic the edge there. Nova is probably more durable. Much more so if you include shielding. Both have the ability to ends fights without slugging it out. Majestic with his do it all laser vision, Nova with his Nova Force and gravity tricks. I see one of two scenarios playing out.

1) They trade blows. Nova pins Majestic with a gravimetric bubble and begins a lecture. While Nova monolouges, Majestic reprograms the WM and cuts Rich off from the Nova Force. He then tears Richard in half.

2) Majestic launches an assualt at Nova. Nova soaks up some damage. Majestic wonders why Nova isn't really fighting back when all of a sudden he finds that he can't move at all. Nova explains that, "while Majestic was busy Pounding on him, he was busy weaving a thin layer of gravity around Majestic". Now he's too heavy to move. Then Nova hit's him with a compressed gravimetric pulse for the KO.

It all depends on which scenario you can envision playing out the most. But if Nova doesn't phuck around, I see him taking it 7/10. If he screws around, he gets ass raped 9/10.


i gotta give Majestic the durability nod. Nova might even be faster though.

Nova, not easy 6/10

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
i gotta give Majestic the durability nod. Why would you give Majestic the durability nod?

Originally posted by dmills
Tough one. Majestic is stronger, although Nova's gravity manipulation nullifies that. Both move at FTL speeds. Both are good h2h although I'd give Majestic the edge there. Nova is probably more durable. Much more so if you include shielding. Both have the ability to ends fights without slugging it out. Majestic with his do it all laser vision, Nova with his Nova Force and gravity tricks. I see one of two scenarios playing out.

1) They trade blows. Nova pins Majestic with a gravimetric bubble and begins a lecture. While Nova monolouges, Majestic reprograms the WM and cuts Rich off from the Nova Force. He then tears Richard in half.

2) Majestic launches an assualt at Nova. Nova soaks up some damage. Majestic wonders why Nova isn't really fighting back when all of a sudden he finds that he can't move at all. Nova explains that, "while Majestic was busy Pounding on him, he was busy weaving a thin layer of gravity around Majestic". Now he's too heavy to move. Then Nova hit's him with a compressed gravimetric pulse for the KO.

It all depends on which scenario you can envision playing out the most. But if Nova doesn't phuck around, I see him taking it 7/10. If he screws around, he gets ass raped 9/10.

Assuming his heat vision could penetrate their defenses, I could see Majestic reprogramming Worldmind....

Originally posted by cdtm
Assuming his heat vision could penetrate their defenses, I could see Majestic reprogramming Worldmind....

worldmind's intelect>Reed Richards>majestic

he is a lot more likely to infuse him with the nova force and control his mind

On reprogramming, it depends on whether you believe that the Eradicator is more technologically advanced than Worldmind. As Majestic reprogrammed Eradicator's at the subatomic level, he could theoretically do the same to Worldmind if it is similar to Eradicator.

I doubt Nova can "weave a layer of gravity" without Majestic noticing. He has heightened senses that allow him to detect changes in space-time, causality, the properties of sub-atomic matter and the difference between universes. When he was in the DCU, he noticed that he was in a different universe from the smell.

If Nova uses his gravitational powers to trap Majestic, then he has to do it on a massive scale. This is the guy who rearranged the solar system and invented machines to let him move planets without breaking them.

Anyway, i vote for Majestic.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Majestic.

Majestic, and I don't really believe it would be as close as some people are making it out to be.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Majestic, and I don't really believe it would be as close as some people are making it out to be.

@Original Smurf,
Nova's power set makes him more then a match for any Superman archtype. There's literally zero reason, other then personal bias, to believe it wouldn't be close either way.

@Johnny Sorrow,

I'd say the WM is more advanced. But I still say it's in the realm of possibility for Majestic. Of course, The WM would probably break free of the programming eventually.

Originally posted by 753
worldmind's intelect>Reed Richards>majestic
You think so? I think Majestic is right up there with Reed. Maybe more so. IMO of course.

Originally posted by dmills
@Johnny Sorrow,

I'd say the WM is more advanced. But I still say it's in the realm of possibility for Majestic. Of course, The WM would probably break free of the programming eventually.

The only way I see Nova winning is if he goes all out right off the bat, enough to temporarily stun Majestic so he can concentrate the entire Nova Force (the portions WM allows to him anyway) to immobilize him.

Originally posted by dmills
You think so? I think Majestic is right up there with Reed. Maybe more so. IMO of course.

nah majestic just looks so bright cause we unconsciously compare him to superman. he aint done nothing reed couldnt do, but reed's done somethings beyond majestic's feats

Originally posted by 753
nah majestic just looks so bright cause we unconsciously compare him to superman. he aint done nothing reed couldnt do, but reed's done somethings beyond majestic's feats

He's done things Reed would be hard-pressed to copy.

Originally posted by dmills
@Original Smurf,
Nova's power set makes him more then a match for any Superman archtype. There's literally zero reason, other then personal bias, to believe it wouldn't be close either way. Make your case.

@753,
His brain processess information at a much faster rate then Reed's. The caculations that took Reed minutes to do in Nova #35 would've been done in nano seconds by Majestic.

Originally posted by dmills
@753,
His brain processess information at a much faster rate then Reed's. The caculations that took Reed minutes to do in Nova #35 would've been done in nano seconds by Majestic.

true, but that's an aspect of his superspeed. Reed's creativity is a more impressive deus ex machina. His last minute solutions and the tech he's created are more impressive too.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
He's done things Reed would be hard-pressed to copy.

It helps that in addition to super speed prepping, he can do on the fly analysis of the sort it'd take Reed sophisticated instruments to collect.

I can see Reed coming up with a Deus Ex Mechanica, Majestic taking one glance at it, complimenting him on his , than making a few adjustments with his vision powers and actually improving the design..

@753,
I'd say his ability to do complex calculations and even implement designs and modifications at nano speeds is an advantage. Like a super computer vs a calculator. But perhaps you're right.

@cdtm,
That's my take on it.

@Original Smurf,

I have. You're in the minority in thinking this isn't a close battle, you make your's.

I haven't seen anything to put Nova on Majestic's level. You made the claim that Nova has the ability to be on par with any 'Superman archetype', which is a conclusion I have yet to see validated.

So... validate it, please.

Not playing this game with you buddy. You don't get to pontificate here. Most of us, even the people that said Majestic wins, think it would be a close battle. You came on and said "It won't be as close as some are making it". Why wouldn't it be?

Originally posted by dmills
You don't get to pontificate here. Said the pot to the kettle.

All that you've done is throw around your opinion, and now commit the fallacy of appealing to an inappropriate authority.

I said I didn't think it would be close. You suggested that Nova can match any Superman, I asked you to expand, you refused.

I then told you that I didn't really buy into the idea that Nova was as powerful as you made him out to be- you persisted to provide nothing, not even a cogent argument, other than appealing to the opinion of what apparently is the thread majority, though that has little to do with the validity of your claim.

So, please, again, what makes you think that Nova will not simply get outmaneuvered, outfought and beat down by Majestic's fists?

Or you can simply carry on throwing out multi-syllabic words, hoping that it distracts from your inability to back up your claims.

Does Majestic have his weapons?

Dude, I don't have to prove jack to you. You want an answer, go back and read page one. I broke down the match up, and why I think it could go either way.

You on the other hand have contributed next to nothing to the discussion except to essentially say Majestic would win easily. I disagreed with that nonsense and asked you why. Again you offered nothing, but in your mind somehow I'm supposed to defend my position to you? Give me a break.

@Prepman,

OP didn't say.

did Nova get another update recently?

Nova hasnt done shit to put him on Majestics level. Until Nova stalemates or beats characters like Quasar, Annihilus and SS or someone on this level.

Originally posted by Warlord
did Nova get another update recently?

Fanboys are wanking him.

Originally posted by dmills
I disagreed with that nonsense and asked you why. Again you offered nothing, but in your mind somehow I'm supposed to defend my position to you? Give me a break. What exactly do you think I'm supposed to prove to you?

I don't hold the opinion that Nova has the power output or skills to allow him to not get creamed by Maj's fists. Pretty straight forward.

I can't prove a negative- I can't prove that Nova isn't strong enough no more than you can prove that there isn't an invisible, undetectable pink elephant sitting behind you. We can, however, dismiss conclusions with nothing to validate them, and you still have done nothing to make the case that Nova is as powerful as you claim.

Until you do, I will continue to believe that Majestic's strong, fast and skilled enough to make this a non-fight. You can provide proof to the contrary, as I've asked, but until you make it clear what you're requesting (proof that Majestic is strong? skilled?), there's no case for me to make, and we continue with the useless back and forth.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Nova hasnt done shit to put him on Majestics level. Until Nova stalemates or beats characters like Quasar, Annihilus and SS or someone on this level.

good friend, he just defeated the sphinx who had two ka stones

nova is powerful

whether those choosing maj...that's cool

for me, and my opinion only....nova wins

lord annihilus returns...hint hint

Originally posted by guy222
good friend, he just defeated the sphinx who had two ka stones

nova is powerful

whether those choosing maj...that's cool

for me, and my opinion only....nova wins

lord annihilus returns...hint hint



Due to an anomaly of the Sphinx's power. He didn't beat the Sphinx with his own power.

Nova has always had the Sphinx's number

@Warlord,
Yes. Basically he unleashed his full power in issue 35 and killed Sphinx by opening up a stargate inside of him. Sphinx had two Ka stones at the time and was probably equal to Eternity.

Originally posted by dmills
@Warlord,
Yes. Basically he unleashed his full power in issue 35 and killed Sphinx by opening up a stargate inside of him. Sphinx had two Ka stones at the time and was probably equal to Eternity.

It wasn't the stargate that killed him, it was the consequence of it. The Fault gave the Sphinx the opportunity to gain two Ka stones. It should have been impossible, but he constructed an area in the Fault where the two stones could exist simultaneously. Before he could completely grasp the power and remake the world to allow the possibility, Nova pushed him through a stargate back into reality which caused him to decompress.

@The nuul,
Nova was holding his own against Gladiator and Thor long before his recent upgrade.

Johnny Sorrow,
Yeah. He was going to remake the entire universe to except his exsistence. But the fact that Nova was able to push him back was indeed a high showing.

@Johnny Sorrow,
Was it just me or was Sphinx's reaction to what Nova did to him comical?

Originally posted by dmills
@Johnny Sorrow,
Was it just me or was Sphinx's reaction to what Nova did to him comical?

It might have been the best part of the comic.

I don't want people to get the wrong idea from your statement; it sounds like you're saying that Nova beat the Sphinx purely with his own power. That's something Majestic could not have done.

@Johnny Sorrow,
You know the context. It was his power set that enabled him to pull it off, but obviously he didn't overpower Sphinx. Majestic couldn't pull it off either way.

Originally posted by guy222
good friend, he just defeated the sphinx who had two ka stones

nova is powerful

whether those choosing maj...that's cool

for me, and my opinion only....nova wins

lord annihilus returns...hint hint



I have to start reading Nova's series again. I was thinking he didn't seem half as powerful as the insane Super Nova, but I guess that could be Worldmind seriously restricting access to his powers so he doesn't end up the same way..

Still, you'd think Nova would do better against current Surfer than Beta Ray Bill did. Not necessarily beat him, just do better. But he did worse..

nova, Nova nova

@cdtm
Yeah. He finally accessed his full power. He could only do it for a short time, but he has the power.

like i says... majestic takes this cause i think he's mor durable.

Originally posted by dmills
@cdtm
Yeah. He finally accessed his full power. He could only do it for a short time, but he has the power.

Seeing as he beat someone on that magnitude, don't you think he can beat Surfer?

Mr. Majestic

@Prep man,
Nope. Norrin is too versatile. He can absorb Nova's gravity by blinking and has no obvious weakness for Nova to exploit. Nova fully unleashed could give him a nice go, but for limited time.

Originally posted by dmills
@Prep man,
Nope. Norrin is too versatile. He can absorb Nova's gravity by blinking and has no obvious weakness for Nova to exploit. Nova fully unleashed could give him a nice go, but for limited time.

Nova hater!

@prep man,

Hey, a man's nothing if he's not honest.

So, if Nova still has access to full powers, he'd still lose? I say it would be the opposite. JMO.

Originally posted by dmills
@753,
I'd say his ability to do complex calculations and even implement designs and modifications at nano speeds is an advantage. Like a super computer vs a calculator. But perhaps you're right.

Really just because someone can do math fast in their head doesn't mean they are smarter than a scientist who creates new theories and ideas and invents things. I mean even if you can instantly figure out the cube root of a 12 - digit number it doesn't mean you can build a spaceship, for example.

majestic ftw.

@Endless Mike,
Majestic can do in seconds what it would take Reed months to do. He can do the theory, and then implement the design in seconds. Molecular disentanglers, gravitational gloves etc.

Yes I know he can build those things fast but that's mostly due to his powers. Reed has built more impressive devices overall I would say.

Originally posted by dmills
@Endless Mike,
Majestic can do in seconds what it would take Reed months to do. He can do the theory, and then implement the design in seconds. Molecular disentanglers, gravitational gloves etc.

But his creations can't match richards's. what is majestic's most impressive gizmo, theory or inteligence feat?

It's irrelevant whether Majestic's creations are better or worse than Reed's. The fact is Majestic easily outstrips Reed in applying his genius intellect in a fight because of his superior speed, reflexes, and thought processes.

Also, Nova is not fighting Superman. He's fighting a stronger, faster, and more intelligent version of Superman with a harsher morality, way better fighting skills, and more creative applications of his powers.

I wouldn't say he's necessarily stronger or faster

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
It's irrelevant whether Majestic's creations are better or worse than Reed's. The fact is Majestic easily outstrips Reed in applying his genius intellect in a fight because of his superior speed, reflexes, and thought processes.

Also, Nova is not fighting Superman. He's fighting a stronger, faster, and more intelligent version of Superman with a harsher morality, way better fighting skills, and more creative applications of his powers.

majestic wouldnt need geniality to kill richards in a straight fight and given equal prep to both, richards wins

Originally posted by 753
majestic wouldnt need geniality to kill richards in a straight fight and given equal prep to both, richards wins

Why does this matter? Majestic isn't battling Richards in a test of brains. He's fighting Richard Rider.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
I wouldn't say he's necessarily stronger or faster

He's rearranged the entire solar system by himself. He needed gravitational gloves so he wouldn't break the planets he was trying to move.

He's flown out of the Milky Way galaxy and back to Earth in under a year.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
He's rearranged the entire solar system by himself. He needed gravitational gloves so he wouldn't break the planets he was trying to move.

He's flown out of the Milky Way galaxy and back to Earth in under a year.

The same writer that had Majestic rearrange the solar system (Joe Casey) stated that Superman could have done it just as easily. Not to mention, Casey has stated numerous times that he views Superman as the most powerful character in comics.

Ok, so that would put him right around 200,000 x light speed (considering that the Milky Way Galaxy is 100,000 light years across). Superman has feats that would suggest he's much faster than that.

much faster than 200000 x the speed of light...


for god's shake...

Yes.

The world mind trumps both

No wonder they wanted to retcon power levels after the crisis

I'm referring to Post Crisis Superman.

so they still write that stuff in 2010...good for them

Originally posted by Warlord
so they still write that stuff in 2010...good for them

They actually wrote Daxamites up to roughly PC standards well past the crisis in Legion of Super Heroes.

Pre Crisis was much, much worse though.. Ever see that scan around the internet of Superboy tug boating an entire solar system worth of planets?

Speed wise, Superman was so fast he almost ran into God, if not for Spectre intervening.

Originally posted by cdtm
They actually wrote Daxamites up to roughly PC standards well past the crisis in Legion of Super Heroes.

Pre Crisis was much, much worse though.. Ever see that scan around the internet of Superboy tug boating an entire solar system worth of planets?

Speed wise, Superman was so fast he almost ran into God, if not for Spectre intervening.


yes yes that, the supersneeze and other masterpieces of comic literature...

I guess it depends if you like extravaganza in what you are reading...
I'm really not that type of guy anyway

Originally posted by batdude123
The same writer that had Majestic rearrange the solar system (Joe Casey) stated that Superman could have done it just as easily. Not to mention, Casey has stated numerous times that he views Superman as the most powerful character in comics.

Ok, so that would put him right around 200,000 x light speed (considering that the Milky Way Galaxy is 100,000 light years across). Superman has feats that would suggest he's much faster than that.

Never mind the fact that Kal-El isn't the most powerful character in comics. Joe Casey's perception on things is a bit distorted, especially if he believes that Post-Crisis Superman can do the same things. The creator of Blue Marvel has also stated that his character was supposed to be weaker than Sentry but stronger than Superman.

In short, writers saying things doesn't make it so.

If we're talking about Pre-Crisis Superman, sure.

Originally posted by Warlord
yes yes that, the supersneeze and other masterpieces of comic literature...

I guess it depends if you like extravaganza in what you are reading...
I'm really not that type of guy anyway

It's fodder for Rumbles, but personally I'm a bigger fan of something like Hitman, or reading stories where Captain America or Superman be the inspirational icons they're supposed to be, instead of showing off how tough they are.

Displays of ridiculous cosmic power are fun in smaller doses, though. I think it'd get old quick if that'll all I was reading..

@ctdm,
That was one of the reasons why Iron Fist and Nova were so compelling to me as characters when I was a kid. Even to this very day.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Never mind the fact that Kal-El isn't the most powerful character in comics. Joe Casey's perception on things is a bit distorted, especially if he believes that Post-Crisis Superman can do the same things. The creator of Blue Marvel has also stated that his character was supposed to be weaker than Sentry but stronger than Superman.

In short, writers saying things doesn't make it so.

If we're talking about Pre-Crisis Superman, sure.

Ok, so at best, you're using evidence from a writer you find to be facetious?

Also, there's a HUGE difference between saying that a character can replicate a feat performed by another character and the example you used with Blue Marvel. I'll let you try and figure out what that difference is.

No, there are Post-Crisis feats that clock him as being faster than that.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Why does this matter? Majestic isn't battling Richards in a test of brains. He's fighting Richard Rider.


you're the one that brought combat application of intellect up. I was simply stating majestic cant hack and reprogram worldmind as it is far more inteligent than him, proven by the fact that richards was a groupie arround it and clearly below it in intelect

Originally posted by batdude123


No, there are Post-Crisis feats that clock him as being faster than that.

There are post-crisis feats that place SM above 200.000 times the speed of light?

Yes.

Originally posted by batdude123
Yes.

like what?

Countdown #48

Superman flies from the Vega system (roughly 25 light years away) to Earth in moments.

Originally posted by batdude123
Countdown #48

Superman flies from the Vega system (roughly 25 light years away) to Earth in 25 years. fixed

Originally posted by batdude123
Countdown #48

Superman flies from the Vega system (roughly 25 light years away) to Earth in moments.

is there a way to tell how long it took? what's your estimate?

Nova wins.

Originally posted by Blanket
fixed

hoss

Originally posted by 753
is there a way to tell how long it took? what's your estimate?

Jimmy heard screaming in the sky, then alerted Superman to it. Right after that, Lightray was knocked to the ground, and that's when Superman showed up.

There's no definitive way to tell how long it took, but a conservative estimate would be a few minutes at most.

Tbh, it didn't even look like it took that long, imo.

Originally posted by batdude123
hoss



Jimmy heard screaming in the sky, then alerted Superman to it. Right after that, Lightray was knocked to the ground, and that's when Superman showed up.

There's no definitive way to tell how long it took, but a conservative estimate would be a few minutes at most. Surfer is still 20x faster

You know how to wound.

Originally posted by batdude123
Ok, so at best, you're using evidence from a writer you find to be facetious?

Also, there's a HUGE difference between saying that a character can replicate a feat performed by another character and the example you used with Blue Marvel. I'll let you try and figure out what that difference is.

No, there are Post-Crisis feats that clock him as being faster than that.

No, I think his statement is wrong.

My Blue Marvel example simply shows that writers' judgments should not be accepted without scrutiny. Superman has not shown that he can replicate such strength feats. He hasn't shown he can replicate such speed feats.

Nothing from Countdown should be accepted blindly. It is full of inconsistencies and nonsense.

Originally posted by Blanket
Surfer is still 20x faster he may be fast, but nova is better, nojust kidding. ss wins..................... ME not a fayboy

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
No, I think his statement is wrong.

My Blue Marvel example simply shows that writers' judgments should not be accepted without scrutiny. Superman has not shown that he can replicate such strength feats. He hasn't shown he can replicate such speed feats.

Nothing from Countdown should be accepted blindly. It is full of inconsistencies and nonsense.

Joe Casey's Superman vibrated (yes... "vibrated" an entire planet to a different dimension, thus saving the DC omniverse. baka

Plus, Casey also had Superman tear through multiple Imperiex Probes like tissue paper when 1 Imperiex Probe was enough to own J'onn, Flash, and GL Kyle at the same time.

I wouldn't underestimate just how powerful Joe Casey's views on Superman are.

Casey has written for both Majestic and Superman. If he says that Superman could have replicated that feat, then I'm inclined to believe him. Certainly it's a more valid opinion on the subject than either yours or mine.

The reason you won't see Superman do something like that is because there's never been a context or situation where something like that is necessary. That being said, however, Superman has stated on multiple occasions that his punches can shatter moons and planets.

Also, nice argument for the Countdown feat. "I don't like it, therefore, it never happened."

Regardless, that's simply one example. In Action Comics 847, Superman travels multiple light years in the time span of less than 3 hours.

Originally posted by batdude123

Casey has written for both Majestic and Superman. If he says that Superman could have replicated that feat, then I'm inclined to believe him. Certainly it's a more valid opinion on the subject than either yours or mine.

The reason you won't see Superman do something like that is because there's never been a context or situation where something like that is necessary.

But didn't Superman need help to move the moon?

Stuff like that is why people are skeptical of Joe Casey's assessment on Superman. Even if he wrote him, that doesn't mean he's familiar with all or most of his post crisis work.. Lots of writers write a character without reading others works or being familiar with their history.

You don't seem to be very bright.

Originally posted by batdude123
Joe Casey's Superman vibrated (yes... "vibrated" an entire planet to a different dimension, thus saving the DC omniverse. baka

Plus, Casey also had Superman tear through multiple Imperiex Probes like tissue paper when 1 Imperiex Probe was enough to own J'onn, Flash, and GL Kyle at the same time.

I wouldn't underestimate just how powerful Joe Casey's views on Superman are.

Casey has written for both Majestic and Superman. If he says that Superman could have replicated that feat, then I'm inclined to believe him. Certainly it's a more valid opinion on the subject than either yours or mine.

The reason you won't see Superman do something like that is because there's never been a context or situation where something like that is necessary. That being said, however, Superman has stated on multiple occasions that his punches can shatter moons and planets.

Also, nice argument for the Countdown feat. "I don't like it, therefore, it never happened."

Regardless, that's simply one example. In Action Comics 847, Superman travels multiple light years in the time span of less than 3 hours.

Then may I submit the proposition that Joe Casey has a problem with glorifying Superman at the expense of other characters?

I'm inclined to believe that, since Superman has shattered moons. In that case, his words are supported by past events. Characters are also made to say things that are flat-out false e.g. Tony Stark believing that he has never beaten the Hulk or Namor in a straight-up fight. When he has done so multiple times.

Now you're being facetious. Did I say that nothing in Countdown actually happened and shouldn't be considered continuity? No. But nothing in it should be applied to these battles concerning characters.

Example: Captain Atom is defeated by the Monitor Solomon. His skin is ruptured and leaks dangerous amounts of radiation.

Problem: Captain Atom can absorb literally any type of energy and return it to the Quantum Field. He has also shown that he can manipulate energy to prevent opponents from using attacks. Most of the examples when his skin has been ruptured come from specific magical attacks (Crimson Avenger's bullets, which are supposed to go through anything) and X-Ionizer treated weapons.

They provided no explanation of how his skin was broken when he could have (and should have) easily absorbed it.

@Johnny Sorrow,

I'll submit another example. In the WWH/X-men arc, Strong man took a punch from WWH, absorbed it and then punched the hulk back with the energy. He then collapsed after that because of the "heart overload" condition. Problem is, that condition was fixed long ago. He should've taken Hulks punch just fine. Sometimes PIS and/or bad writing happen. I don't know why people just can't except that.

Regarding the current Superman speed feats, which book is considered to be Superman's main title? Sometimes characters with multiple titles are portrayed somewhat inconsistently from book to book. In that case, I often just go with how the character is consistently portrayed in his main title.

Also, Nova wins.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Then may I submit the proposition that Joe Casey has a problem with glorifying Superman at the expense of other characters?

Perhaps, but then again, it still doesn't take away from my point whatsoever.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
I'm inclined to believe that

Gravy.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Now you're being facetious. Did I say that nothing in Countdown actually happened and shouldn't be considered continuity? No. But nothing in it should be applied to these battles concerning characters.

Semantics.

Frankly, what you're suggesting is just as bad.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Example: Captain Atom is defeated by the Monitor Solomon. His skin is ruptured and leaks dangerous amounts of radiation.

Problem: Captain Atom can absorb literally any type of energy and return it to the Quantum Field. He has also shown that he can manipulate energy to prevent opponents from using attacks. Most of the examples when his skin has been ruptured come from specific magical attacks (Crimson Avenger's bullets, which are supposed to go through anything) and X-Ionizer treated weapons.

They provided no explanation of how his skin was broken when he could have (and should have) easily absorbed it.

So because of a questionable instance that occurred during Countdown, we should just ignore everything that happened in the span of those 52 issues?

Terrible reasoning, to say the least.

Also, let's not pretend that Captain Atom hasn't had his fair share of lolzable feats over the years. Comparatively speaking, I've seen much worse from him.

Originally posted by batdude123
Perhaps, but then again, it still doesn't take away from my point whatsoever.

Joe Casey has very strong views on Superman?

Originally posted by batdude123 Gravy.

Watch closely, irony coming up in 3, 2, 1...

Originally posted by batdude123 Semantics.

Frankly, what you're suggesting is just as bad.

And disregarding a character's low-end feats, especially when they conflict with his established powers and aren't explained in the comics, is considered "semantics"? Hilarious, since to claim that you had to take my statement out of context.

Curiously enough, you did the exact same thing with the preceding statement. Forgot into include, you know, the rest of the paragraph:

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
I'm inclined to believe that, since Superman has shattered moons. In that case, his words are supported by past events. Characters are also made to say things that are flat-out false e.g. Tony Stark believing that he has never beaten the Hulk or Namor in a straight-up fight. When he has done so multiple times.

Originally posted by batdude123 So because of a questionable instance that occurred during Countdown, we should just ignore everything that happened in the span of those 52 issues?

Terrible reasoning, to say the least.

Also, let's not pretend that Captain Atom hasn't had his fair share of lolzable feats over the years. Comparatively speaking, I've seen much worse from him.

Look, another phrase taken out-of-context. Because when I say "an example" it really means "my entire justification for my reasoning", no?

Originally posted by dmills
@Johnny Sorrow,

I'll submit another example. In the WWH/X-men arc, Strong man took a punch from WWH, absorbed it and then punched the hulk back with the energy. He then collapsed after that because of the "heart overload" condition. Problem is, that condition was fixed long ago. He should've taken Hulks punch just fine. Sometimes PIS and/or bad writing happen. I don't know why people just can't except that.

Regarding the current Superman speed feats, which book is considered to be Superman's main title? Sometimes characters with multiple titles are portrayed somewhat inconsistently from book to book. In that case, I often just go with how the character is consistently portrayed in his main title.

Also, Nova wins.

Currently, World of New Krypton (technically, Last Stand of New Krypton). He has more leadership and H2H feats in those than his more well known feats.

Agree to disagree.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Joe Casey has very strong views on Superman?

And subsequently, Mr. Majestic.

Therefore, to use a feat written by an author that stated Superman could have replicated said feat in an attempt to prove superiority is asinine.

Comprende?

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
And disregarding a character's low-end feats, especially when they conflict with his established powers and aren't explained in the comics, is considered "semantics"? Hilarious, since to claim that you had to take my statement out of context.

What? baka

To even come to this erroneous conclusion you had to completely misinterpret my statement.

My comment was to you saying, in essence, "I accept Countdown as being canon to DC's continuity, but yet, we should throw out everything that happened during the series and it shouldn't be usable for the vs. forums because I don't like it."

Hence, me saying "Semantics."

Fortunately, that's not how it works on KMC.

KMC is wonderful in the respect that it's established based on the ideas of multiple members of the forums. It isn't subject to change based on the incoherent ramblings of a single poster.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Curiously enough, you did the exact same thing with the preceding statement. Forgot into include, you know, the rest of the paragraph

facepalm

That's because the rest of your paragraph was completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Look, another phrase taken out-of-context. Because when I say "an example" it really means "my entire justification for my reasoning", no?

It doesn't matter what examples you wish to use. The fact of the matter is that there's silly writing in every story arc, every mini series, every crossover, etc. Just because you, idiosyncratically feel that it should be disregarded, doesn't mean it's going to.

Countdown issues will continue to be used on these forums regardless of whether you like it or not. To throw away FIFTY-TWO issues as being unusable on the forums is infinitely more ridiculous than any flaws you find with the writing.

Feel free to respond if you want. To be honest, I really don't have the patience to babysit you through your own mistakes here. You're so far off on this it's pathetic.

@Batdude 123

What Casey says is irrelevant to a forum battle because technically, he could write just about anyone to replicate Majestics feats just by virtue of him being a writer. Isn't Casey the one who came up with the whole vibration/counter-vibration concept?

In the context of a forum debate nothing in Superman's powerset would allow him to replicate Majestics feats precisely.

Originally posted by batdude123
And subsequently, Mr. Majestic.

Therefore, to use a feat written by an author that stated Superman could have replicated said feat in an attempt to prove superiority is asinine.

Comprende?

No, since Joe Casey does not (shockingly enough) write every single story in which Superman appears. Your statement would be more truthful if the character was only written by one author, say Morpheus/Dream or All-Star Superman. Joe Casey's writing of Superman may put them on equal footing, but Superman's powers are judged by the consistency of their portrayal across multiple authors.

What Casey is not more valid or less valid: it is irrelevant. We are talking about Superman in comics, not Joe Casey's idea of Superman in comics.

Originally posted by batdude123
What? baka

To even come to this erroneous conclusion you had to completely misinterpret my statement.

My comment was to you saying, in essence, "I accept Countdown as being canon to DC's continuity, but yet, we should throw out everything that happened during the series and it shouldn't be usable for the vs. forums because I don't like it."

Hence, me saying "Semantics."

Fortunately, that's not how it works on KMC.

KMC is wonderful in the respect that it's established based on the ideas of multiple members of the forums. It isn't subject to change based on the incoherent ramblings of a single poster.

No, Countdown cannot be thrown out the window because I don't like it. It's not my choice to accept whether or not it counts as continuity because it is part of an ongoing story. If I just say "Nothing in Countdown happened because I don't like it", then I have the problem of explaining what happened to the New Gods and several other questions. There would be huge gaps in comic book history because of my personal tastes.

I can reject instances that happen in it if they do not match up with the consistency of appearances in the past. I can reject instances of anything in comics if they are inconsistent and lack a credible explanation behind them. Not deny that they happened, but find them unacceptable as evidence in the forums due to PIS, CIS, and whatever else explains it. And oddly enough, it's the inconsistent writing in Countdown that leads to my distaste for it.

Also, my original statement says:

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Nothing from Countdown should be accepted blindly. It is full of inconsistencies and nonsense.

Blindly. Qualifier right there. Being full of inconsistencies doesn't mean everything in it should be thrown to the dogs. How the hell did you interpret that into this?

Originally posted by batdude123
"I accept Countdown as being canon to DC's continuity, but yet, we should throw out everything that happened during the series and it shouldn't be usable for the vs. forums because I don't like it."

Which means you're saying that I made a claim that I never did. And you talk about semantics.

Originally posted by batdude123 facepalm

That's because the rest of your paragraph was completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Still don't see why. Superman's multiple claims roughly match up to what he has accomplished. If Joe Casey wrote Superman saying that, then at least that part is acceptable compared to how Superman has been written by other writers.

Just because a character claims something doesn't make it so. What if Batman claimed that he was stronger than Aquagirl? No matter how many times he makes this claim, he would still be wrong (or really arrogant). The Tony Stark comment directly references a claim made by a character that is outright false. It's not a general statement either: you can point out specific issues that prove it otherwise. What characters say should not be taken as face value unless it is supported by actual feats.

Anyway, Superman claimed he could destroy planets. It's easier to destroy planets than to move them.

Originally posted by batdude123

It doesn't matter what examples you wish to use. The fact of the matter is that there's silly writing in every story arc, every mini series, every crossover, etc. Just because you, idiosyncratically feel that it should be disregarded, doesn't mean it's going to.

Countdown issues will continue to be used on these forums regardless of whether you like it or not. To throw away FIFTY-TWO issues as being unusable on the forums is infinitely more ridiculous than any flaws you find with the writing.

Feel free to respond if you want. To be honest, I really don't have the patience to babysit you through your own mistakes here. You're so far off on this it's pathetic.

We're obviously on different wavelengths. I never said Countdown should be outright rejected. I said it should not be accepted blindly. Like every work written by every writer in the comic book world. In Countdown's case, you should be even more wary. It's my opinion.

But hey, I'm not the one who places idiosyncratic connotations onto other people's posts.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
How this goes?

Question. Does Nova has full access to the Nova Force during this battle? Even as Nova Prime, he was only given portions of it so that it would not affect his mind and sanity.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
No, since Joe Casey does not (shockingly enough) write every single story in which Superman appears. Your statement would be more truthful if the character was only written by one author, say Morpheus/Dream or All-Star Superman. Joe Casey's writing of Superman may put them on equal footing, but Superman's powers are judged by the consistency of their portrayal across multiple authors.

What Casey is not more valid or less valid: it is irrelevant. We are talking about Superman in comics, not Joe Casey's idea of Superman in comics.

Then how ironic is it that you're using a single author's portrayal of Majestic as evidence of him having superior strength?

Shit goes both ways.

How about the issue of Captain Atom: Armageddon where Captain Atom states that Majestic isn't on Superman's level in terms of strength?

You're using Majestic's top feats in order to define him, and then turning around and criticizing me for bringing up Superman's top feats. Hopefully you can see the hypocrisy in that.

Based on average portrayals, Majestic isn't stronger than Superman.

--------------

As for the rest of your post...

The bottom line is that you were trying to discredit Superman's feat by using a totally unrelated example. Not only that, but you were trying to take away the credibility of the entire series in which it occurred.

In any case, your example doesn't make that feat any less credible or valid considering, as I've pointed out before, there are other instances of Superman going lightyears in a short time-frame.

Oh, and btw, there are other instances of when Atom had his metal skin punctured than the ones you mentioned. It's not as bad as you were making it out to be. Certainly not bad enough to use it as the personification of what you find wrong Countdown as a whole.

Originally posted by batdude123
Then how ironic is it that you're using a single author's portrayal of Majestic as evidence of him having superior strength?

Shit goes both ways.

How about the issue of Captain Atom: Armageddon where Captain Atom states that Majestic isn't on Superman's level in terms of strength?

You're using Majestic's top feats in order to define him, and then turning around and criticizing me for bringing up Superman's top feats. Hopefully you can see the hypocrisy in that.


It sounds more like he's equating Countdown with Onslaught, e.g. shoddily written and to be taken with a grain of salt. That's not the same as discounting a high end showing for the sake of discounting a high end showing..

As far as Casey being the only one giving Majestic high end showings, Abnet had Majestic one shot Eradicator. If anything, Captain Atom lowballing Majestic is the anomaly.. (And wasn't this an amped up Captain Atom to boot? Maybe even Superman would've seemed weaker than usual?)