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So, my last thread on this was a resounding PHAILURE. It devolved into a bunch of theorybane sorrounding several universe destroying beings, while everyone else became useless. This thread will be aimed at the lower tier characters of either franchise, and as such will contain less speculation, and more ass kicking.

TEAMS!

Team POGEYMAWN
1. Machamp
2. Charizard
3. Blastoise
4. Tyranitar
5. Alakazam

Team FINAL FANTASY
1. Cloud
2. Vincent
3. Squall
4. Zell
5. Ultimecia, no time compression.

It wouldn't be better to create a thread putting the Pokemons against the Final Fantasy monsters? That would be fun, I guess...
How about some Pokemons against some of the Final Fantasy IX monsters?

Can do that, too, I s'pose. But for the record, Dodrio > Chocobos

Vincent or Ultimecia solos.

ugh3

Vincent goes Chaos. /thread

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Vincent or Ultimecia solos. Based on absolutely nothing?

Explain why.

Originally posted by Nemesis X
Vincent goes Chaos. /thread
And gets punched by Machamp. dur

Blastoise can be defeated by a very well trained Pikachu...

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
And gets punched by Machamp. dur

lolwut?

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Blastoise can be defeated by a very well trained Pikachu... Blastoise's water jets are powerful enough to punch through solid steel. Originally posted by Nemesis X
lolwut? Machamp can throw an asinine amount of punches in a second, I think it's 1000? Yeah.

I'm not up on Pokemom at the moment but can't Alakazam just mind-rape everyone on the Final Fantasy side? Plus Tyranitar is pretty beasty too.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Machamp can throw an asinine amount of punches in a second, I think it's 1000? Yeah.

Chaos is a challenge to those who threaten planets. Show me Machamp being a threat to the world.

Originally posted by Nemesis X
Chaos is a challenge to those who threaten planets. Show me Machamp being a threat to the world. Oh look, this is totally irrelevant. Guess what, Ganon would conquer the world if Link didn't stop him, and yeeeet... Link beating Ganon isn't a valid point. New one plx.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Blastoise's water jets are powerful enough to punch through solid steel.

REALLY?! You should show me that. You know, Blastoise is awesome and is one of my favorite Pokemon. But... Sadly.

Originally posted by Me
Blastoise can be defeated by a very well trained Pikachu...

Blastoise can also not be defeated by a very well trained Pikachu.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Oh look, this is totally irrelevant. Guess what, Ganon would conquer the world if Link didn't stop him, and yeeeet... Link beating Ganon isn't a valid point. New one plx.

Wait, Ganon had the power to destroy the world?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Blastoise can also not be defeated by a very well trained Pikachu.

You're right. I forgot about the trainer.

http://www.yo-anime.com.ar/personajes/pp/pokemon_ash_ketchum.jpg

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
"Platinum The jets of water it spouts from the rocket cannons on its shell can punch through thick steel."
"Stadium It has spouts extending from its shell at the top. They spray water like cannons, hard enough to pierce concrete walls. "

What's this? I never saw Blastoise doing that...

Machamp can toss a train over the horizon. It was 1000 punches in 2 seconds, though.

Those are quotes from the pokedex, it's pokemon's primary canon. Everytime you see a pokemon survive a hit from Blastoise, I want you to remember how strong those jets are. We have water jets IRL that do the same thing on a much smaller scale, that water moves at mach 3 to cut through thin steel and titanium. Blastoise can emulate this on thick steel at range.

Originally posted by Nemesis X
Vincent has the advantage in the air. He can just fly and shoot rounds from his Death Penalty at Machamp until he's dead. I forgot, how many points get knocked off a Pokemon in the games because in Final Fantasy, Chaos Vincent's Death Penalty can knock 2000 points off of his opponents. Lol? Game mechanics much.

Alakazam TK's him down. Originally posted by The Scenario
Machamp can toss a train over the horizon. It was 1000 punches in 2 seconds, though. Ah, my bad, still awesome though. That's 0.002 of a second to throw a punch AND pull it back, before punching again.

The only good member on team 2 is Vincent >

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Those are quotes from the pokedex, it's pokemon's primary canon. Everytime you see a pokemon survive a hit from Blastoise, I want you to remember how strong those jets are. We have water jets IRL that do the same thing on a much smaller scale, that water moves at mach 3 to cut through thin steel and titanium. Blastoise can emulate this on thick steel at range.

I'm confused now. Those quotes are from the Pokedex, you say?
Can you tell me from where you can find those? I would like to check them out. Like I said... I am confused, are you talking about the Anime series, right?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Alakazam TK's him down.

And what makes you think Alakazam won't be distracted by the other FF characters while Vincent fights Machamp?

Machamp has as much a chance at defeating Vincent in Chaos form as much as an Oddish has a chance at defeating Sephiroth

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
I'm confused now. Those quotes are from the Pokedex, you say?
Can you tell me from where you can find those? I would like to check them out. Like I said... I am confused, are you talking about the Anime series, right?

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Machamp#Game_data

Not the anime, these are actual in game Pokedex entries.

As for the Machamp vs Chaos thing, Chaos can just shoot him.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
I'm confused now. Those quotes are from the Pokedex, you say?
Can you tell me from where you can find those? I would like to check them out. Like I said... I am confused, are you talking about the Anime series, right? No, I'm talking about the pokedex in game.
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Blastoise_(Pok%C3%A9mon)

Originally posted by Nemesis X
And what makes you think Alakazam won't be distracted by the other FF characters while Vincent fights Machamp?

Machamp has as much a chance at defeating Vincent in Chaos form as much as an Oddish has a chance at defeating Sephiroth
How about Alakazam's incredible speed stat, IQ of 5000, and the fact that Machamp could easily ignore Vincent in favour of fighting someone else? It would be pretty easy to pull an "I hold, you punch" combo with the two, though.

Also, lol@your comparison.

Originally posted by Heythere,Honey
As for the Machamp vs Chaos thing, Chaos can just shoot him.

Machamp can just throw mountains at him.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Machamp can just throw mountains at him.
Machamp doesn't throw mountains. =/

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
How about Alakazam's incredible speed stat, IQ of 5000, and the fact that Machamp could easily ignore Vincent in favour of fighting someone else? It would be pretty easy to pull an "I hold, you punch" combo with the two, though.

Also, lol@your comparison.

All Machamp is gonna punch is the air because Vincent would be up way too high for Machamp to reach.

Imho: Alakazam starts off with reflect, and light screen, and the others attack with their special stats while Machamp bulks up.
Originally posted by Nemesis X
All Machamp is gonna punch is the air because Vincent would be up way too high for Machamp to reach.
Alakazam's TK says no.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Machamp can just throw mountains at him.

Chaos Vincent can easily dodge mountains.

Originally posted by Nemesis X
Chaos Vincent can easily dodge mountains. When has he ever dodged something that large?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
No, I'm talking about the pokedex in game.
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Blastoise_(Pok%C3%A9mon)

Hey, thank you.

Oh... I haven't played any of those games, I could though if I want right now. Umm... So the Pokemons from the games are more powerful? I didn't know that.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Hey, thank you.

Oh... I haven't played any of those games, I could though if I want right now. Umm... So the Pokemons from the games are more powerful? I didn't know that. Much, much more powerful. Also, I do recomend you play the games, they're ridiculously fun. Also, there's a pretty deep competitive strategy twist to them.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
When has he ever dodged something that large?

He hasn't shown dodging something that large I admit but his speed proves he can dodge a mountain thrown at him.

Also, he destroyed Omega, which is bigger than a mountain and Vincent easily destroyed it.

While Alakazam TK's Vincent, he gets a taste of the Omnislash in the back by Cloud.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Much, much more powerful. Also, I do recomend you play the games, they're ridiculously fun. Also, there's a pretty deep competitive strategy twist to them.

Not much competitive online when most teams are EV'd Garchomps, Blisseys, legendaries, or the trainer just sucks.

My friend only EV'd a Pachirisu and Lucario for her team, you can just imagine how that turned out for me online on her DS haermm

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Much, much more powerful. Also, I do recomend you play the games, they're ridiculously fun. Also, there's a pretty deep competitive strategy twist to them.

For sure, I'll play soon, I love Pokemon.

Ok, so, you said that the attack was canon to the story? Ok, if that's so, show me the video of Blastoise performing that in canon.

Originally posted by SpadeKing
Not much competitive online when most teams are EV'd Garchomps, Blisseys, legendaries, or the trainer just sucks.

My friend only EV'd a Pachirisu and Lucario for her team, you can just imagine how that turned out for me online on her DS haermm Lol, that does suck, but those are ubers you mentioned, in OU, and UU tier, rather than Uber tier, it's a lot more balanced. I play on Smogon in OU and UU. I do pretty well. On my DS I'm currently IV breeding for a slowbro with a decent nature and 31 SP.D IV. Also, there's a video you need to see.
ye7b3bOQ6lY

I'm shocked that no one has mentioned Tyranitar's landscape re-arranging EQ or Charizard's rock-melting flame.

Originally posted by Heythere,Honey
I'm shocked that no one has mentioned Tyranitar's landscape re-arranging EQ or Charizard's rock-melting flame. Charizard also melts 10 000 ton glaciers, and his flames are hot enough to melt any material! But yeah, all in good time.

Originally posted by Nemesis X
All Machamp is gonna punch is the air because Vincent would be up way too high for Machamp to reach.

Machamp used Vacuum Wave!

Machamp can, in fact, kill someone by punching the air.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Machamp used Vacuum Wave!

Machamp can, in fact, kill someone by punching the air. ...LOL! I forgot about that.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Charizard also melts 10 000 ton glaciers, and his flames are hot enough to melt any material! But yeah, all in good time.
I think the FF team should be changed a bit.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Machamp used Vacuum Wave!

Machamp can, in fact, kill someone by punching the air.

Yeah, but........Gah, I hate you!

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Lol, that does suck, but those are ubers you mentioned, in OU, and UU tier, rather than Uber tier, it's a lot more balanced. I play on Smogon in OU and UU. I do pretty well. On my DS I'm currently IV breeding for a slowbro with a decent nature and 31 SP.D IV. Also, there's a video you need to see.
ye7b3bOQ6lY


Yea, I knew about those two the guy I faced only had to use 3 Earthquakes, 3 ice beams, and a counter. Apparently to her the cuter the pokemon the better facepalm

That video inspired me, I always wanted to breed a magikarp to lvl 100 for an online battle

That got an instant favorite

What materia does Cloud get?

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
What materia does Cloud get? All of it, why not?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
All of it, why not?
And with that, they could take out a lot of the major threats on the Pokemon team by turing them into toads if Cloud is fast enough.

Originally posted by Heythere,Honey
And with that, they could take out a lot of the major threats on the Pokemon team by turing them into toads if Cloud is fast enough. Cloud has this ability in canon?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Cloud has this ability in canon?
Yeah. He stows all of his materia in a box and doesn't use them come Advent Children. Never seen him use it in a cutscene however.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
All of it, why not?

All of it? Alakazam will be the best hope then for the pokemon. Yes, he has the ability to do every spell in the game now. No one ever uses magic in cutscenes in VII but its still legit. And I won't mention the summons because you consider them outside help.

ScreamPaste, you missed my comment...
Go back to the second page and read, please...

Looks like Cloud's importance level on Team 2 has accelerated.

Originally posted by Heythere,Honey
Looks like Cloud's importance level on Team 2 has accelerated.

Booooo! No seriously I have an odd grudge against Cloud and I don't know why. Seeing as how nobody in this thread is getting godly upgrades in this thread I can see the Pokemon side winning. Unless Vincent does get Chaos.

I'm just going to leave Ultimecia alone though.

Out of curiosity, what does Chaos Vincent get?

My previous post wasn't good enough so here's a better one:

1. Machamp is clearly a class 100 opponent. It can lift mountains, send people flying over the horizon, and send trains flying. It can throw punches at blinding speed (1000 in 2 seconds) making it an opponent that's not worth fighting at close range. But Machamp only uses close range moves (since this is not a Trainer Pokemon) and isn't fast outside of its arm speed. Cloud and Squall will be hurt if they go close range but luckily, both have long range attacks. Zell is absolutely hopeless against it (unless he uses his Burning Rave).

Cloud should be able to do well against most of the opponents. Though Alakazaam is a problem. His Buster Sword can hold two Materia and he begins the game with Thunder and Ice Materia. With those two, he will fare well against Charizard and Blastoise. Cloud can also deflect bullets and is pretty fast as seen in Advent Children. He also has Omni Slash which will any of the Pokemon on there (I heard his latest Omnislash is so fast that it's finished at a blink of an eye but I do not know if that's true).


2. Charizard is one of the most overrated Pokemon ever. Regardless, his flames are a major threat as they can melt boulders and there's smokescreen to obscure the battlefield. Fire Fang and Slash prove it can hold its own against close range fighting but that's enough to compete with the likes of Cloud, Squall, and Zell. His flight will put Zell at a disadvantage but won't save him from Cloud and Squall (if we're counting Dissidia). Charizard is also going down if Vincent and/or Ultimecia decides to take action.

Vincent is the long range attacker in Team FF along with Ultimecia. His base form alone would kill Machamp. The most threatening about him is his Chaos form and that alone would wipe out the whole Pokemon team unless Alakazaam manages to catch him.

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ucY2k8LhvEU


3. Blastoise's cannons are highly accurate and can penetrate steel. The cannons can also be used to make high-speed tackles. Unfortunately, every character in this thread is capable of dodging its attacks. Plus, it's pretty slow making it vulnerable to Zell. It does have Protect and Iron Defense but that it will only delay its inevitable death via magic or Omnislash. Still it can be used as a distraction to help its Pokemon allies.

Squall is a powerhouse and I can only guess he's as good as Cloud. He really has no long range attacks though (unless we're throwing in Dissidia and Junction magic). Unfortunately, his best moves are mostly going to hit only Blastoise and Tyranitar (since Charizard has smokescreen).


4. Tyranitar is a powerhouse as it's capable of destroying mountains, causing landscape-changing earthquakes, and can withstand powerful attacks. It could easily be a GF/Aeon/Esper/Eidolon in the FF universe. With sandstorm and its wide range of attacks, it has a high advantage. The only issues it has are Chaos Vincent and Ultimecia who can solo the team. Tyranitar's defense is constantly wanked by the lollovelink club (who should be renamed Nintendo Wankers of KMC). In an episode of Pokemon, Ash & friends go into Larvitar's mind via Unown and we see its mother getting killed by men armed with rocket launchers.

Zell is the physical powerhouse of the FF team. He's capable of pulverizing anyone in Pokemon team and has powerful Limit Breaks. The only problem is that most of the opposing team can deal with Zell so assistance will be needed.


5. Alakazaam is genius and most powerful of the Pokemon team. It's psychic attacks prove useful against Team FF and it has teleport, Disable, and reflect to help itself. But the psychic type is very frail and is going down in one hit by its enemies. Reflect and Recover will help out but it won't save it from a barrage of slashes, punches, or gunshots. It will have to use its genius intellect to get through the fight.


Ultimecia, much like Alakazaam, is the genius and top tier of her team. She's not exactly supercomputer type but still enough to almost reach her goal of being omnipotent. She can make thoughts come to life and create monsters/GFs that have never existed. She has magical powers which include Dispel (removing Blastoise's and Alakazaam's defenses), Double (to increase her spell usage), Thundaga (to destroy Charizard and Blastoise), and Meltdown which inflicts damage and Vit0 (no protection against physical attacks). She alone would solo the Pokemon team (and even more if we're including her time control from Dissidia).


Just in case someone wants mention it, Alakazaam isn't going to psychic everyone at once. If it tries to hold a character immobile so that Machamp can have a free shot, the psychic will be vulnerable to another character. Chaos Vincent is faster than anybody in this thread and that alone gives FF the high advantage. Earthquake isn't going to hit everybody and Smokescreen is gettiing negated by Ultimecia's Tornado and Maelstrom.

Team FF wins.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
My previous post wasn't good enough so here's a better one:

1. But Machamp only uses close range moves (since this is not a Trainer Pokemon) and isn't fast outside of its arm speed.

Cloud should be able to do well against most of the opponents. Though Alakazaam is a problem. His Buster Sword can hold two Materia and he begins the game with Thunder and Ice Materia. With those two, he will fare well against Charizard and Blastoise. Cloud can also deflect bullets and is pretty fast as seen in Advent Children. He also has Omni Slash which will any of the Pokemon on there (I heard his latest Omnislash is so fast that it's finished at a blink of an eye but I do not know if that's true).


2. Charizard is one of the most overrated Pokemon ever. Regardless, his flames are a major threat as they can melt boulders and there's smokescreen to obscure the battlefield. Fire Fang and Slash prove it can hold its own against close range fighting but that's enough to compete with the likes of Cloud, Squall, and Zell. His flight will put Zell at a disadvantage but won't save him from Cloud and Squall (if we're counting Dissidia). Charizard is also going down if Vincent and/or Ultimecia decides to take action.

Vincent is the long range attacker in Team FF along with Ultimecia. His base form alone would kill Machamp. The most threatening about him is his Chaos form and that alone would wipe out the whole Pokemon team unless Alakazaam manages to catch him.

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3. Blastoise's cannons are highly accurate and can penetrate steel. The cannons can also be used to make high-speed tackles. Unfortunately, every character in this thread is capable of dodging its attacks. Plus, it's pretty slow making it vulnerable to Zell. It does have Protect and Iron Defense but that it will only delay its inevitable death via magic or Omnislash. Still it can be used as a distraction to help its Pokemon allies.

Squall is a powerhouse and I can only guess he's as good as Cloud. He really has no long range attacks though (unless we're throwing in Dissidia and Junction magic). Unfortunately, his best moves are mostly going to hit only Blastoise and Tyranitar (since Charizard has smokescreen).


4. Tyranitar is a powerhouse as it's capable of destroying mountains, causing landscape-changing earthquakes, and can withstand powerful attacks. It could easily be a GF/Aeon/Esper/Eidolon in the FF universe. With sandstorm and its wide range of attacks, it has a high advantage. The only issues it has are Chaos Vincent and Ultimecia who can solo the team. Tyranitar's defense is constantly wanked by the lollovelink club (who should be renamed Nintendo Wankers of KMC). In an episode of Pokemon, Ash & friends go into Larvitar's mind via Unown and we see its mother getting killed by men armed with rocket launchers.

Zell is the physical powerhouse of the FF team. He's capable of pulverizing anyone in Pokemon team and has powerful Limit Breaks. The only problem is that most of the opposing team can deal with Zell so assistance will be needed.


5. Alakazaam is genius and most powerful of the Pokemon team. It's psychic attacks prove useful against Team FF and it has teleport, Disable, and reflect to help itself. But the psychic type is very frail and is going down in one hit by its enemies. Reflect and Recover will help out but it won't save it from a barrage of slashes, punches, or gunshots. It will have to use its genius intellect to get through the fight.


Ultimecia, much like Alakazaam, is the genius and top tier of her team. She's not exactly supercomputer type but still enough to almost reach her goal of being omnipotent. She can make thoughts come to life and create monsters/GFs that have never existed. She has magical powers which include Dispel (removing Blastoise's and Alakazaam's defenses), Double (to increase her spell usage), Thundaga (to destroy Charizard and Blastoise), and Meltdown which inflicts damage and Vit0 (no protection against physical attacks). She alone would solo the Pokemon team (and even more if we're including her time control from Dissidia).


Just in case someone wants mention it, Alakazaam isn't going to psychic everyone at once. If it tries to hold a character immobile so that Machamp can have a free shot, the psychic will be vulnerable to another character. Chaos Vincent is faster than anybody in this thread and that alone gives FF the high advantage. Earthquake isn't going to hit everybody and Smokescreen is gettiing negated by Ultimecia's Tornado and Maelstrom.

Team FF wins.

1. This is incorrect, Machamp has multiple long range abilities. It also has several priority moves, making it decently fast.

Ice Materia won't do anything to Charizard or Blastoise. If he is hit by either, he's probably a goner.

2. I agree Charizard is overrated. Alakazam happens to be extremely fast. And it can easily TK more than one enemy at a time, as its movement is TK working on itself. Charizard should be enough of a match for Vincent with flight and long range abilities. Can Vincent fly?

3. Do you realize how fast water has to be moving to punch through steel? A water propelled tackle might be slow since he is so heavy, but the water jets themselves, no way.

Withdraw + Hydro Pump is all a Blastoise should really need. Rapid Spin might help out, especially if added with his Hydro Pump.

Blastoise also has Haze, which outside of gameplay capabilities would also decrease vision.

4. Lol, you really do not like us, do you? I don't recall ever "constantly wanking Tyranitar's defense." It's a strong, powerful, threat. That's all Tyranitar needs to be.

5. I already mentioned some things about Alakazam. Take note that with Machamp's ability No Guard, all its attacks hit without fail, as do the opponents. But this means Machamp can get off about a thousand Dynamic Punches in a second. Should he for some reason only get one good hit, Dynamic Punch has a 100% Confuse rate.

Without Time Compression, can Ultimecia do any of that? Earthquake does actually hit everyone in the battle, too. Unless they are a Flying type or off the ground.

I don't think Chaos Vincent is in this either, it does say Vincent, though.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Do you realize how fast water has to be moving to punch through steel? A water propelled tackle might be slow since he is so heavy, but the water jets themselves, no way.


Can you show me where Blastoise performs this?

It's a Pokedex quote. It is within his capabilities.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
It's a Pokedex quote. It is within his capabilities.

Well, surely he used it in the game, right? Show me, because that's an useful ability.

Wait, you want a video of Hydro Pump/Cannon?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Wait, you want a video of Hydro Pump/Cannon?

No.
Aren't you guys saying that Blastoise can pass through steel with that attack? Well, I would love to see that. I know it's from the Pokedex, but if that's canon, then Blastoise for sure used the attack in canon. I mean, it wouldn't make much sense if they said he can do it and he never did it... I haven't played the games, that's why I'm asking.

They say a lot of things that most pokemon never do, but some of them actually do what the pokedex says they can though.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
1. This is incorrect, Machamp has multiple long range abilities. It also has several priority moves, making it decently fast.

It has Foresight to hit ghosts and deal with evasive foes but that's not something that would work on Team FF (unless they got Image/Blink). It has Scary Face but what character outside of Pokemon is gonna be afraid of him? Squall, Cloud, Vincent, and Zell have faced opponents that would make Alakazaam shit himself.



I forget Fire had Ice resistance after R/B/Y. Cloud is not a sitting duck, he's pretty fast and IIRC is a bullet-timer. If what FF fanboys said is true, Cloud survived Sin Bahamut's flare without damage.



Vincent can only fly as Chaos Vincent. If he can jump as high as Cloud and appear like he's flying, that would happen in Dirge of Cerberus. I haven't played that game so I wouldn't know. Charizard against Vincent? Charizard is no bullet-timer. Plus Vincent can load his Cerberus with Thunder materia and blast it out of the air.



I was under the impression that Hydro Pump would so highly pressured that they can cause injury or death It's pretty much how I picture FF Water to affect enemies (because drowning sounds lame).



Hydro Pump won't be as powerful when spun around. Plus Blastoise is still vulnerable on top.



Because Haze is supposed to Black Mist while Swift is supposed to be Speed Star. I've always wondered who came up with these shitty Americanized names. Well there's another smokescreen for you.



I'm not familiar with these Pokemon abilities after G/S/C but it seems I didn't have to know No Guard since it reflects on Machamp's rapid punches.



Flying and off the ground is what I was talking about.

I'm sure Ultimecia can do everything I listed without Time Compression. I'm not including sealing abilities and fusing with creations as they only exist when Time Compression is activated. I think I'll remove bringing thoughts to life as well since she only did that during the last part of the game. Her first form in the final fight (minus the absorption) seems valid enough as she is a powerful sorceress capable of possessing minds.



Chaos Vincent is just a form of Vincent via Limit Break.

Alakazam would probably get at least Cloud or Squall with its abilities. Tyranitar or Machamp could handle Zell. However for the most part Vincent and Ultimecia seem to be the most threatening however I'm still not convinced that the FFverse can win.

Machamp can move mountains with one arm.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
It has Foresight to hit ghosts and deal with evasive foes but that's not something that would work on Team FF (unless they got Image/Blink). It has Scary Face but what character outside of Pokemon is gonna be afraid of him? Squall, Cloud, Vincent, and Zell have faced opponents that would make Alakazaam shit himself.

I forget Fire had Ice resistance after R/B/Y. Cloud is not a sitting duck, he's pretty fast and IIRC is a bullet-timer. If what FF fanboys said is true, Cloud survived Sin Bahamut's flare without damage.

Vincent can only fly as Chaos Vincent. If he can jump as high as Cloud and appear like he's flying, that would happen in Dirge of Cerberus. I haven't played that game so I wouldn't know. Charizard against Vincent? Charizard is no bullet-timer. Plus Vincent can load his Cerberus with Thunder materia and blast it out of the air.

I was under the impression that Hydro Pump would so highly pressured that they can cause injury or death It's pretty much how I picture FF Water to affect enemies (because drowning sounds lame).

Hydro Pump won't be as powerful when spun around. Plus Blastoise is still vulnerable on top.

Because Haze is supposed to Black Mist while Swift is supposed to be Speed Star. I've always wondered who came up with these shitty Americanized names. Well there's another smokescreen for you.

I'm not familiar with these Pokemon abilities after G/S/C but it seems I didn't have to know No Guard since it reflects on Machamp's rapid punches.

Flying and off the ground is what I was talking about.

I'm sure Ultimecia can do everything I listed without Time Compression. I'm not including sealing abilities and fusing with creations as they only exist when Time Compression is activated. I think I'll remove bringing thoughts to life as well since she only did that during the last part of the game. Her first form in the final fight (minus the absorption) seems valid enough as she is a powerful sorceress capable of possessing minds.

Chaos Vincent is just a form of Vincent via Limit Break.

I didn't mention either of those moves. I was thinking more like Vacuum Wave.

Not going to be as hot as Charizard.

Jumping is incredibly different from flying, unless your name is Mario. A jump would be easy to dodge. Even Ash's wimpy Charizard is pretty aerially mobile with Ash on its back.

Pretty much, but I think at that speed its capable of cutting through people.

Sure it will, it's still shooting the water forcefully, only now its in every direction and hits are in repeated bursts instead of a continuous stream.

You don't really need to guard throwing punches at that speed. Its insane, really.

Aren't those a result of that Sorceress Power whatchamacallit? Don't think she has that.

I'd like some feats on Ultimecia's spells, particularly her elemental ones. she impales Squall with ice spikes, hardly a destructive feat next to the power behind pokemon attacks.

Tyranitar's ability is Sand Stream, so it automatically creates a Sandstom wherever it goes. Which is pretty cool.

They have to take out Charizard/Alakazam/Machamp first IMO.

One thing about Ultimecia, she can easily go into Griever form in this fight by taking the Lion concept from Squall's mind, like she did in FF8. I have no idea what it does though, maybe GrieverSquall can elaborate on Griever Ultimecia's abilities

The Ruby Dragon is enough, at least, to beat Charizard...

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070721180901/finalfantasy/images/f/f2/Rubydragon_ffviii.jpg

Seriously... The characters constantly kill these kind of creatures, it would be good to make a thread Pokemon Vs. Monsters.

And about Ultimecia...
Heythere,Honey. I suppose you are talking about the one from Dissidia, but I think they talk about the one from the main story. Either way, I don't see her fighting these Pokemons. In my opinion her powers are beyond even of these Final Fantasy characters.
Monsters like this Ruby Dragon, for her, are garbage.

Originally posted by SpadeKing
They say a lot of things that most pokemon never do, but some of them actually do what the pokedex says they can though.

Then we gotta follow what they can really do. Blastoise has never done something like that. Even if is from the Pokedex from the game, it's still a very exaggerated claim without any basis.
Like: 'Yeah, the Pikachu from the game can destroy the whole universe' and stuff... I don't know, I don't see it as accurate represetations of the original Pokemons capabilities which ones are from the Anime. I have heard Machamp can move a mountain with his arm? WTF.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Then we gotta follow what they can really do. Blastoise has never done something like that. Even if is from the Pokedex from the game, it's still a very exaggerated claim without any basis.
Like: 'Yeah, the Pikachu from the game can destroy the whole universe' and stuff... I don't know, I don't see it as accurate represetations of the original Pokemons capabilities which ones are from the Anime. I have heard Machamp can move a mountain with his arm? WTF.

1. Statements are statements and canon. Not every character has the benefit of cut scenes that are meant to look cool. Nintendo has a strict rule that action is to be played, not watched.

2. In no way are these exaggerations. BT tried to pull that crap too.

3. The anime is an extremely poor representation of power and ability in many cases.

No, the games came before the anime, so the games are the original canon. And what the games say goes, in my opinion. Further, Pikachu isn't exeptionally powerful. It's the anime version that breaks several laws of the pokemon world (I would have said laws of physics, but...) Game Pikachu can cause thunderstorms passively when in groups, but that's about it.

Pikachu is like, the Wolverine of the Pokemon anime. I don't think he should be able to do half the things he does, but he does it anyway.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Statements are statements and canon. Not every character has the benefit of cut scenes that are meant to look cool. Nintendo has a strict rule that action is to be played, not watched.

Indeed, I never said they weren't. I never mentioned anything about cut-scenes either. But how the hell you can back up the claim that Blastoise can do that? I mean, his water attack passing through steel? If it's canon, you can automatically kill a Pokemon in the game, then.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
2. In no way are these exaggerations. BT tried to pull that crap too.

Machamp moving a MOUNTAIN with his arm is not exaggerated, you say? Are you okay, mate? What's BT?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
3. The anime is an extremely poor representation of power and ability in many cases.

Why?

Also, how comes the game came before the Anime?

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
The Ruby Dragon is enough, at least, to beat Charizard...

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070721180901/finalfantasy/images/f/f2/Rubydragon_ffviii.jpg

Seriously... The characters constantly kill these kind of creatures, it would be good to make a thread Pokemon Vs. Monsters.

And about Ultimecia...
Heythere,Honey. I suppose you are talking about the one from Dissidia, but I think they talk about the one from the main story. Either way, I don't see her fighting these Pokemons. In my opinion her powers are beyond even of these Final Fantasy characters.
Monsters like this Ruby Dragon, for her, are garbage.



Then we gotta follow what they can really do. Blastoise has never done something like that. Even if is from the Pokedex from the game, it's still a very exaggerated claim without any basis.
Like: 'Yeah, the Pikachu from the game can destroy the whole universe' and stuff... I don't know, I don't see it as accurate represetations of the original Pokemons capabilities which ones are from the Anime. I have heard Machamp can move a mountain with his arm? WTF. The games came first, and are the top canon of pokemon, the pokedex does not contain inaccurate information, and yes, Machamp can move a mountain with one arm.

I'd also like to know why you believe that dragon could take on Charizard?

fYcwNYgBsFg

THIS. DOES. NOT. HAPPEN.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Indeed, I never said they weren't. I never mentioned anything about cut-scenes either. But how the hell you can back up the claim that Blastoise can do that? I mean, his water attack passing through steel? If it's canon, you can automatically kill a Pokemon in the game, then.



Machamp moving a MOUNTAIN with his arm is not exaggerated, you say? Are you okay, mate? What's BT?



Why?

Also, how comes the game came before the Anime?

The Pokedex doesn't need to be backed up, it's the Pokedex.

No, it isn't. I'm fine, thanks for asking. But the voices really don't seem to like you.

Beats me. Because the games precede the anime.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I didn't mention either of those moves. I was thinking more like Vacuum Wave.

Uh-oh, TM! Cloud uses Knights of Round and slaughters the entire team. Ultimecia freezes time and kills everybody.



How would you know?



Mario's jumping sucks compared to Cloud's.



Hydropump has never been shown to be faster than anything Cloud has avoided.



Ok, Ultimecia freezes time, summons a lot of magical darts, unfreezes time, and everyone dies.

You realise the real life version of Blastoise's water jets which do what his jets do on a much smaller scale up close shoot water at like, mach 3? Blastoise's need to be much faster to do this crap at range through thick steel. Even mach 3 is plenty good enough to hit Cloud, though.
She can't. That's Dissidia.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
The Pokedex doesn't need to be backed up, it's the Pokedex. no expression

No, it isn't. I'm fine, thanks for asking. But the voices really don't seem to like you. erm

Beats me. Because the games precede the anime.

Of course not. What Blastoise does need to be backed up. If he can do it, he surely did it in the canon of the game, right? Show me, I haven't played the game. If he can do it on the battles, then he for sure can kill Pokemons in the Gameplay with just one attack, right? Because his attack passes through steel. If he can't, then? Does this make any sense...?

Conveniently for you, it isn't, that's okay. I don't understand what you mean here anyway.

Beats me? That's not an argument.
You said it was extremely poor representations of their abilities, I need to know what makes you to reach that conclusion. I'm listening. The game precede the Anime...? What happens in the Anime, at least can be backed up, you know?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
why you believe that dragon could take on Charizard?

I guess his abilities are pretty similar, Charizard can deal a powerful fire breath, Ruby Dragon can deal a very powerful (non-elemental) breath. Both can deal claw attacks or bites, also both of them can fly. Dunno, I suppose Ruby Dragon has more endurance, it seems bigger. Well, it can be also a draw, Charizard isn't a push-over.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Of course not. What Blastoise does need to be backed up. If he can do it, he surely did it in the canon of the game, right? Show me, I haven't played the game. If he can do it on the battles, then he for sure can kill Pokemons in the Gameplay with just one attack, right? Because his attack passes through steel. If he can't, then? Does this make any sense...?

Conveniently for you, it isn't, that's okay. I don't understand what you mean here anyway.

Beats me? That's not an argument.
You said it was extremely poor representations of their abilities, I need to know what makes you to reach that conclusion. I'm listening. The game precede the Anime...? What happens in the Anime, at least can be backed up, you know?



I guess his abilities are pretty similar, Charizard can deal a powerful fire breath, Ruby Dragon can deal a very powerful (non-elemental) breath. Both can deal claw attacks or bites, also both of them can fly. Dunno, I suppose Ruby Dragon has more endurance, it seems bigger. Well, it can be also a draw, Charizard isn't a push-over. You GREATLY underestimate pokemon. Even in the anime we see them taking lavabaths and stuff totally unharmed, and that's their weakest incarnations. In the games, several are universe wreckers. An angry Tyranitar can mean maps need to be redrawn, punching through steel isn't high tier power and will not kill most pokemon.


Also, your comparison is based entirely on them being similar and the dragon being larger? Does it have any feats? Charizard can bathe in lava unscathed, melt boulders and ten thousand ton glaciers, and it's flames are on record hot enough to melt any known material.

So if Cloud gets all his materia, does the mean everyone else gets there all there stuff?

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Uh-oh, TM! Cloud uses Knights of Round and slaughters the entire team. Ultimecia freezes time and kills everybody.



How would you know?



Mario's jumping sucks compared to Cloud's.



Hydropump has never been shown to be faster than anything Cloud has avoided.



Ok, Ultimecia freezes time, summons a lot of magical darts, unfreezes time, and everyone dies.

Lol? There is no TM for Vacuum Wave. But I was incorrect, Machamp doesn't learn it. He'd have to use Bullet Punch.

No feats?

Ultimecia freezing time? Well that's new, was pretty sure all she did was compress it which isn't allowed here.

No. But you did see my point, jumping high can get you to the height, but you can't really go anywhere but that direction unless your name is Mario.

What ScreamPaste said.

What I said earlier.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Of course not. What Blastoise does need to be backed up. If he can do it, he surely did it in the canon of the game, right? Show me, I haven't played the game. If he can do it on the battles, then he for sure can kill Pokemons in the Gameplay with just one attack, right? Because his attack passes through steel. If he can't, then? Does this make any sense...?

Conveniently for you, it isn't, that's okay. I don't understand what you mean here anyway.

Beats me? That's not an argument.
You said it was extremely poor representations of their abilities, I need to know what makes you to reach that conclusion. I'm listening. The game precede the Anime...? What happens in the Anime, at least can be backed up, you know?


Blastoise having this ability is, in fact, in the canon of the game. This canon takes the form of the Pokedex.

K? Er, yeah, I'll go with K.

The anime fluctuates in accuracy to the Pokedex. In one episode Pikachu and Piplup are trying to be found and they end up creating a thunderstorm, which speaks for Pikachu's power as it normally takes multiple. Then we have situations where something like a Lairon is hurting itself by smashing its face into rocks, despite having access to the Rock Head ability and an incredibly high defense. The anime is just weird, it's like a PIS monster machine.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
So if Cloud gets all his materia, does the mean everyone else gets there all there stuff?
Alakazam, embargo = no weapons/items for FF cast

Originally posted by BloodRain
Alakazam, embargo = no weapons/items for FF cast

He has to use it first. And Cloud could just stop time before he does it. Not to mention the fact that it only stops use of 1 held item and items from the bag. Materia can be else where.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
He has to use it first. And Cloud could just stop time before he does it. Not to mention the fact that it only stops use of 1 held item and items from the bag. Materia can be else where.

I'm confused, when does cloud stop time again?

Originally posted by Cyner
I'm confused, when does cloud stop time again?

When he uses the Time materia that he posses.

Its not exactly time stop but more of like statsis as other enemies can still move but not the target.

Originally posted by Phanteros
Its not exactly time stop but more of like statsis as other enemies can still move but not the target.

True, it is more like that. But in this case, Cloud wouldn't have to worry about them. He was given all of his materia, which included the "All" materia that would allow him to target all the pokemon at once.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Blastoise having this ability is, in fact, in the canon of the game. This canon takes the form of the Pokedex.

But you are repeating yourself here.
I never said something against the Pokedex. I'm using logic to try to understand how his attack works. He has used this attack in the game or not? His attack has passed through some steel in the game? Or that's just some vague description about Blastoise?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
The anime fluctuates in accuracy to the Pokedex. In one episode Pikachu and Piplup are trying to be found and they end up creating a thunderstorm, which speaks for Pikachu's power as it normally takes multiple. Then we have situations where something like a Lairon is hurting itself by smashing its face into rocks, despite having access to the Rock Head ability and an incredibly high defense. The anime is just weird, it's like a PIS monster machine.

The Anime has got its own Pokedex, you know.
I didn't said anything about Pikachu and his powers, I perfectly know his powers. At least you can use those as evidence.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Even in the anime we see them taking lavabaths

I can see a fish taking baths, living and breathing underwater. So? That has nothing to do with a fight. It's his nature.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Also, your comparison is based entirely on them being similar and the dragon being larger? Does it have any feats? no expression Charizard can bathe in lava unscathed, melt boulders and ten thousand ton glaciers, and it's flames are on record hot enough to melt any known material.

Feats? I haven't named them already? Who cares if Charizard can bathe in lava? What have to do that in a fight? I have read about melting boulders and all of what you're mentioning here. Isn't that the same thing that applies Blastoise? Wasn't Ash several times burned by his fire breath? If he can do all of that then he would melt Pokemons in a blink of an eye and we perfectly know that never happened.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
He has to use it first. And Cloud could just stop time before he does it. Not to mention the fact that it only stops use of 1 held item and items from the bag. Materia can be else where.

If its not on them, how can they use it?

Originally posted by BloodRain
If its not on them, how can they use it?

Embargo stops the use of 1 held item and items from the trainer. Cloud could always just have the materia in his armor, in which case its neither. Even if it did work, I don't see how long it would last as 5 turns is a bit odd to be converted into real time.

Its only one held item as the pkmn cant hold more then one, more for those that can. Can be in his armour but he couldnt use them. Not sure for how long it lasts.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Its only one held item as the pkmn cant hold more then one, more for those that can. Can be in his armour but he couldnt use them. Not sure for how long it lasts.

Not so sure it would work that way. Marrowak and Delibird are still able to hold their respective items, a club and a bag. It may not work on weapons. Even if it did, the materia seems to go into its user in AC so it is reasonable to assume it does the same in this case. Not too mention I think Cloud is still faster.

Dissidia



Cloud's jumping can be mistaken for flying. It's far better than Mario's.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Alakazam, embargo = no weapons/items for FF cast

But it's useless against Ultimecia.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Not so sure it would work that way. Marrowak and Delibird are still able to hold their respective items, a club and a bag. It may not work on weapons. Even if it did, the materia seems to go into its user in AC so it is reasonable to assume it does the same in this case. Not too mention I think Cloud is still faster.

Uh-oh! BloodRain what does this mean? I thought Embargo prevents weapon use. Nope just item use. Alakazaam gets slaughtered for wasting its own time.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Dissidia



Cloud's jumping can be mistaken for flying. It's far better than Mario's.



But it's useless against Ultimecia. http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=528835&pagenumber=5#post12646805

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Not so sure it would work that way. Marrowak and Delibird are still able to hold their respective items, a club and a bag. It may not work on weapons. Even if it did, the materia seems to go into its user in AC so it is reasonable to assume it does the same in this case. Not too mention I think Cloud is still faster.
The bag is its tail, and we've never seen someone use it on Marrowak. Im guessing if it were to be shown it'd drop it. All items regardless are useless. Cloud has to be faster then Zams mind.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
But you are repeating yourself here.
I never said something against the Pokedex. I'm using logic to try to understand how his attack works. He has used this attack in the game or not? His attack has passed through some steel in the game? Or that's just some vague description about Blastoise?

The Anime has got its own Pokedex, you know.
I didn't said anything about Pikachu and his powers, I perfectly know his powers. At least you can use those as evidence.


First off, how have you not played a Pokemon game?

Next, no, Blastoise's water cannons have not punched through steel in the games, because it is not a move you can use outside of battle in the games.

Yeah, and if you'd notice, it tends to agree with the game's Pokedex, while many actions of Pokemon do not. The anime is a PIS monster producing machine.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Dissidia



Cloud's jumping can be mistaken for flying. It's far better than Mario's.



But it's useless against Ultimecia.



Uh-oh! BloodRain what does this mean? I thought Embargo prevents weapon use. Nope just item use. Alakazaam gets slaughtered for wasting its own time.

Dissidia isn't in this thread? Non canon game anyway.

Humor me, what is the highest he's jumped?

Marowak always has his bone in his sprite, why wouldn't it? However, if it is holding it's Thick Club item, it does lose that. Same with Farfetch'd and it's stick. Delibird doesn't have a special item.

Originally posted by BloodRain
The bag is its tail, and we've never seen someone use it on Marrowak. Im guessing if it were to be shown it'd drop it. All items regardless are useless. Cloud has to be faster then Zams mind.

It is? Huh, never noticed. lol I just didn't feel like bothering to look up how to spell Farfetch'd to use him as an example. But hey, learned something new today about Pokemon.

Back on topic, I rather still have to put money on Cloud. But even if he isn't fast enough, Ultimecia could just posses Alakazam and allow them to kill it easily enough so they could. Or Squall or Zell could use stop, preferably Zell as his only weapons are his fists.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice

Humor me, what is the highest he's jumped?

Go watch Advent Children. I can't give you measurements.



Not all Marowaks hold Thick Clubs. It's just a rare item.

Embargo says items only.

He's thrown most of that distance. In Mario's movie he could legit fly with jets on his shoes.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Go watch Advent Children. I can't give you measurements.



Not all Marowaks hold Thick Clubs. It's just a rare item.

Embargo says items only.

What Scream said.

A sword is an item, wouldn't you agree?

Dont see how a sword wouldnt be an item still.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Dont see how a sword wouldnt be an item still.

Don't see any other way but this to respond to that. There are items in Final Fantasy. A weapon is classified as "equipment". Don't plan to really fight for this point but that's what the game says.

Like items and held items. Equipment would be held item.

Sword = item.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Like items and held items. Equipment would be held item.

Sword = item.

Meh. Doesn't matter. Can't stop Zell or Squall from using their magic. And once Alakazam is gone, Pokemon will not win.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
First off, how have you not played a Pokemon game?

Next, no, Blastoise's water cannons have not punched through steel in the games, because it is not a move you can use outside of battle in the games.

Well... I hadn't a Game Boy Advance... I can play games now that I got a Game Boy Advance Emulator, so... I could play Pokemon. Actually, I love Pokemon. Either way, you should play Final Fantasy VII, VIII and IX, in my opinion, they are the best ones.

It is not a move you can use outside of battle...? But, wasn't that a description of Blastoise's attack? If you can't use that attack outside battle, then how comes is canon? How comes he CAN DO IT? And if you can use it in the battles, how comes when you attack, you can't automatically kill? You can kill Pokemons with it, right? Automatically. I mean, that's common sense. Hell, if that water can pass through STEEL, then it would literally disintegrate a Pokemon. Aren't you guys taking these 'descriptions' too serious? Come on... Blastoise can't do that.

Anime is the best source you can use, you have all the evidence there. Don't worry, I'm not trying to change your mind, just saying.
It is easier to bring evidence from Blastoise when you can see all what he does, all of what he can deal or take, in live motion.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Dissidia isn't in this thread? Non canon game anyway.

Oh, I almost forgot. You don't need to use Dissidia. Ultimecia can stop time. She did it in Final Fantasy VIII while manipulating Edea.

The same reason a pokemon who can move a mountain with one arm doesn't kill every pokemon with a punch. Pokemon are hax. Infact, many of them are described as harder than diamond, and other stuff.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The same reason a pokemon who can move a mountain with one arm doesn't kill every pokemon with a punch. Pokemon are hax. Infact, many of them are described as harder than diamond, and other stuff.

The same reason of why I think they can't really do that.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
The same reason of why I think they can't really do that. The pokedex is canon.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The pokedex is canon.

I didn't said it wasn't.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The same reason a pokemon who can move a mountain with one arm doesn't kill every pokemon with a punch. Pokemon are hax. Infact, many of them are described as harder than diamond, and other stuff. I believe only Onix was described as harder than diamond.

Originally posted by Heythere,Honey
I believe only Onix was described as harder than diamond. Shellder, Registeel, and I think Tyranitar, just off the top of my head.Originally posted by GrieverSquall
I didn't said it wasn't.
You're trying to disagree with it.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You're trying to disagree with it.

Not really, I just don't find it logical. I think I have already explained why. MowCow already said they can't do that outside of battle. Therefore it doesn't make any sense.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Not really, I just don't find it logical. I think I have already explained why. MowCow already said they can't do that outside of battle. Therefore it doesn't make any sense. No, therefore you cannot order your blastoise to hose down people's cars out of spite because doing so would require a system of legal penalty.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
No, therefore you cannot order your blastoise to hose down people's cars out of spite because doing so would require a system of legal penalty.

What do you mean by that? What cars?
If that were one of Blastoise's canon abilities, then the game itself could make you to use it to unblock some ways along the adventure, I suppose. But if it can't be used outside of battle at all, it means it's Gameplay. If it can't kill Pokemons and anything at all with water passing through steel, it means is inconsistent. If cannot do anything it means that description is vague without logic and ridiculous. Like Machamp moving a mountain, without any reason whatsoever and without anything to back it up.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
What do you mean by that? What cars?
If that were one of Blastoise's canon abilities, then the game itself could make you to use it to unblock some ways along the adventure, I suppose. But if it can't be used outside of battle at all, it means it's Gameplay. If it can't kill Pokemons and anything at all with water passing through steel, it means is inconsistent. If cannot do anything it means that description is vague without logic and ridiculous. Like Machamp moving a mountain, without any reason whatsoever and without anything to back it up.

It's best to look at the Pokemon's powers like you would look at Cloud's materia. Pokemon never use it in cutscenes in the game but they still posses the ability to use it. And the pokedex, despite how inconsistent and stupid in terms of what it does, is about the only canon you can get. But on a related note, Team Final Fantasy take it?

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
It's best to look at the Pokemon's powers like you would look at Cloud's materia.

Cloud's Materia is absolutely up to the player to decide, you don't know what Materia Cloud can use from canon. I don't know what are the rules for this thread either, maybe non-canon elements are allowed, if that's the case, my apologies for interrupt.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Pokemon never use it in cutscenes in the game but they still posses the ability to use it. And the pokedex, despite how inconsistent and stupid in terms of what it does, is about the only canon you can get. But on a related note, Team Final Fantasy take it?

But I didn't said anything about cutscenes here. I never said the Pokedex wasn't canon either. Hell, Blastoise passing through steel with his attack does not have any relevance inside battles either. You can't even know if that makes any difference inside battles, it's totally inconsistent.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
What Scream said.

A sword is an item, wouldn't you agree?

Then clothes are an item. That means Embargo prevents the use of clothes. That just puts Ultimecia at an advantage. She uses her naked body to cancel Alakazaam's psychic powers and watch as his body falls apart.

Originally posted by Heythere,Honey
I believe only Onix was described as harder than diamond.

Meowth splashed water at it and defeated it with Fury Swipes. Somebody said anime feats are canon and this is a Meowth feat. That means Lulu can use water and then beat Onix to death with a Moogle doll.

Some people said Anime was inaccurate, I said Anime is the best source to bring evidence about Pokemon's true abilities.
In this video, Charizard melts a rock with his fire breath, see? They are actually pretty powerful here and it can be backed up. You don't need exaggerated, inconsistent, illogical, ridiculous and without sense descriptions from a game to prove their abilities. We can also see Blastoise. The game doesn't provide any type of evidence whatsoever. Yeah, 'Pikachu blinks and he destroys the universe' Only fan-boys can be convinced if you tell them that.

4hPOwHImemE

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Well... I hadn't a Game Boy Advance... I can play games now that I got a Game Boy Advance Emulator, so... I could play Pokemon. Actually, I love Pokemon. Either way, you should play Final Fantasy VII, VIII and IX, in my opinion, they are the best ones.

It is not a move you can use outside of battle...? But, wasn't that a description of Blastoise's attack? If you can't use that attack outside battle, then how comes is canon? How comes he CAN DO IT? And if you can use it in the battles, how comes when you attack, you can't automatically kill? You can kill Pokemons with it, right? Automatically. I mean, that's common sense. Hell, if that water can pass through STEEL, then it would literally disintegrate a Pokemon. Aren't you guys taking these 'descriptions' too serious? Come on... Blastoise can't do that.

Anime is the best source you can use, you have all the evidence there. Don't worry, I'm not trying to change your mind, just saying.
It is easier to bring evidence from Blastoise when you can see all what he does, all of what he can deal or take, in live motion.

Oh, I almost forgot. You don't need to use Dissidia. Ultimecia can stop time. She did it in Final Fantasy VIII while manipulating Edea.

I'm afraid I cannot do that.

It's not a move you can use outside of battle in the game, yeah. You really think Pokemon have this inability to use moves unless in a battle? Even the anime that you think is accurate lets them use moves outside of battle.

No, you can't kill Pokemon in a game designed to be played by children as well. Pokemon can easily die in battle, but that's why battling is a sport and not a fight to the death. It is just like boxing, if you keep beating on the other guy for long enough, you will kill him.

Pokemon are hax, dude. You're just ignoring that.

Anime has much weaker showings of Pokemon.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
What do you mean by that? What cars?
If that were one of Blastoise's canon abilities, then the game itself could make you to use it to unblock some ways along the adventure, I suppose. But if it can't be used outside of battle at all, it means it's Gameplay. If it can't kill Pokemons and anything at all with water passing through steel, it means is inconsistent. If cannot do anything it means that description is vague without logic and ridiculous. Like Machamp moving a mountain, without any reason whatsoever and without anything to back it up.

Well, yeah, they could. But what does that have to do with anything? Or it doesn't mean that it's inconsistent, it only means that Pokemon are much more durable than you think.

I love how the Pokemon and Pokedex is still a topic of discussion.

The Pokedex is in complete canon to the series. What it says, however stupid and clearly exaggerated it is, is true. One can argue, sure. Won't get you anywhere. I call bull crap on the pokedex in all honesty but it doesn't matter. Pokemon is silly like that.

And still, the Final Fantasy side wins. Not like anyone is arguing against the FF character's ability over time. And once Alakazam is out of the picture, Pokemon has no chance. At all.

scooter

Its basically a matter of them showing it, they've shown a lot of pokemon do the feats from the pokedex, but they just haven't found a relevant way to show others.

Like I wouldn't know any relevant way to show a machamp moving a mountain ermm

Out of curiosity, when was this?

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Some people said Anime was inaccurate, I said Anime is the best source to bring evidence about Pokemon's true abilities.
In this video, Charizard melts a rock with his fire breath, see? They are actually pretty powerful here and it can be backed up. You don't need exaggerated, inconsistent, illogical, ridiculous and without sense descriptions from a game to prove their abilities. We can also see Blastoise. The game doesn't provide any type of evidence whatsoever. Yeah, 'Pikachu blinks and he destroys the universe' Only fan-boys can be convinced if you tell them that.

4hPOwHImemE

In that case, Cloud beats Charizard because he got superior speed and Blastoise loses because Hydro Pump isn't that strong.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
What do you mean by that? What cars?
If that were one of Blastoise's canon abilities, then the game itself could make you to use it to unblock some ways along the adventure, I suppose. But if it can't be used outside of battle at all, it means it's Gameplay. If it can't kill Pokemons and anything at all with water passing through steel, it means is inconsistent. If cannot do anything it means that description is vague without logic and ridiculous. Like Machamp moving a mountain, without any reason whatsoever and without anything to back it up. Lolwtf? What do you mean without anything to back it up. The pokedex says it can. That's that. And how is it inconsistant if it doesn't kill pokemon? Punching through steel is NOT a high end attack in the pokeverse. Machamp, again, can move a mountain with one arm, and punches 1000 times in two seconds. It doesn't kill other pokemon either, know why? Pokemon are hax.
Lolwut? No. It is consistant, and it's relevant, it tells us how fast and how powerful his water jets are. Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Some people said Anime was inaccurate, I said Anime is the best source to bring evidence about Pokemon's true abilities.
In this video, Charizard melts a rock with his fire breath, see? They are actually pretty powerful here and it can be backed up. You don't need exaggerated, inconsistent, illogical, ridiculous and without sense descriptions from a game to prove their abilities. We can also see Blastoise. The game doesn't provide any type of evidence whatsoever. Yeah, 'Pikachu blinks and he destroys the universe' Only fan-boys can be convinced if you tell them that.

4hPOwHImemE
When did anyone say pikachu blinks and destroys the universe? We said, blastoise water jets can punch through thick steel. This is in the pokedex, therefore, true.

Charizard > Cloud.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Charizard > Cloud.

Without materia, maybe. With, no comparison. At all.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Lolwtf? What do you mean without anything to back it up. The pokedex says it can. That's that. And how is it inconsistant if it doesn't kill pokemon? Punching through steel is NOT a high end attack in the pokeverse. Machamp, again, can move a mountain with one arm, and punches 1000 times in two seconds. It doesn't kill other pokemon either, know why? Pokemon are hax.
Lolwut? No. It is consistant, and it's relevant, it tells us how fast and how powerful his water jets are.
When did anyone say pikachu blinks and destroys the universe? We said, blastoise water jets can punch through thick steel. This is in the pokedex, therefore, true.

Charizard > Cloud.

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2At5P58tKDE

02iaOgsKlAY

Cloud > Charizard

Lol Sin, did you really try to use KH2 Cloud?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
It's not a move you can use outside of battle in the game, yeah.

Exactly, because it is NOT a move. It's just some vague, illogical, without any sense, inconsistent, ridiculous description about Blastoise's water cannons. Hell, that's literally PURE hyperbole in all sense. How come all of you are denying it?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
You really think Pokemon have this inability to use moves unless in a battle?

What do you mean by inability? That's not a move.
Blastoise, hiding himself in his shell, IS a move.
Can be called move and can be backed up as one of his moves.
Breaking steel with water isn't any move, it can't be backed up as either a move or description. That's not even a Gameplay element! Because you can't do nor see that even in Gameplay battles. Is irrelevant. Still you want to use it as pure evidence? Nah... We are smarter than this, man. Hell, I'm even giving you a hand with a video, guys.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Even the anime that you think is accurate lets them use moves outside of battle.

Lmao, that isn't something I think, is a fact. From the Anime you can bring whatever evidence you want, we can't say the same about the games. And who cares if Pokemon originates from a game? Who cares if a game was there first? That does not mean the Anime is less accurate when we can clearly see it's more accurate, unless you are disagreeing with the own creators. It's live motion, you have more than cutscenes there, mate. You can't ask for more, I envy you, actually.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
No, you can't kill Pokemon in a game designed to be played by children as well.

Huh? You're losing completely my point here.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Pokemon can easily die in battle, but that's why battling is a sport and not a fight to the death. It is just like boxing, if you keep beating on the other guy for long enough, you will kill him.

I don't know what you're trying to say here, honestly. What you say here even supports what I was saying. If Blastoise can pass through steel with water (I'm using logic), then a Pokemon would die after receiving that attack, I don't think Pikachu is harder than steel, you know, even if Blastoise doesn't want to kill it, his description states his water passes through steel. Either way, water, it doesn't matter how powerful is or can be, it can't pass through steel.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Pokemon are hax, dude. You're just ignoring that.

So Caterpie's body is/can be harder than pure steel? Caterpie is just an insect. Are you joking or something? I never said Pokemons weren't stronger. They are indeed very powerful. But they aren't Gods.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Anime has much weaker showings of Pokemon.

I don't think so. Look at Charizard, you can back the claim that he can melt a rock now. That seems weak to you? I don't know what to think, are you a Pokemon fan-boy? I'm asking, don't be offended, it's okay if you are.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Well, yeah, they could. But what does that have to do with anything?

It means you can back the claim that Charizard can melt rocks now if he focus his fire breath to it, as ScreamPaste suggested before, if I am not mistaken. This is evidence, I can't argue against evidence, you know? Because that's evidence. I saw Blastoise (Don't remember well) destroying rocks or something with his cannons I think, but not passing through steel!

Originally posted by Nephthys
Out of curiosity, when was this?

Watch this around 4:55.

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I think that she did it in there. Unless that's some sort of paralysis. I personally think that she manipulated time. She's a Sorceress known capable of controlling time and space Magic after all. Make your own conclusion, this scene is never explained.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
When did anyone say pikachu blinks and destroys the universe?

Anyone has said that. It was just an example. Relax.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
What do you mean without anything to back it up.

Without evidence. You know, you are even claiming it's canon. I think I'm starting to doubt it.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Machamp, again, can move a mountain with one arm, and punches 1000 times in two seconds.

I can accept the claim that Hitmonlee can deal quick kicks, because there's evidence, but Machamp moving a mountain...? I never saw something like that. Why he would want to move a mountain anyway?

Huh, that does look like paralysis. Squall was moving after everyone else was after all, but I can see your point with her themes etc. Interesting though....



It could be hyperbole.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Exactly, because it is NOT a move. It's just some vague, illogical, without any sense, inconsistent, ridiculous description about Blastoise's water cannons. Hell, that's literally PURE hyperbole in all sense. How come all of you are denying it?
When did you become the judge of what is canon in the pokemon games? Regardless, the pokedex is created by one of the most knowledgeable scientist in th epoke universe, Profesor Oak and your doubting it!!!


Yes it is...

What are you trying to do here... Its backed up by the god damned Pokedex!

Oh so we pick and chose what is canon. It is very relevant to the discussion as it shows just how powerful Blastoise is. BUt for some reason you refuse to consider it as canon, in fact you are the only one who refuses to see it as canon.



rolleyes1 You don't know how canon works do you. The games were first and thus are a higher order of canon. Not to mention this is the video game forums!


Well then I guess Pikachu has a body harder than steel if the burst of Water didn't kill him.


Actually It can, and it does in our world.


If Catarpie can tank a blast from Blastoise than he is indeed harder than steel

I think someone who devotes his entire life to researching pokemon may, just may, be more knowledgeable about pokemon than you...

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Exactly, because it is NOT a move. It's just some vague, illogical, without any sense, inconsistent, ridiculous description about Blastoise's water cannons. Hell, that's literally PURE hyperbole in all sense. How come all of you are denying it?



What do you mean by inability? That's not a move.
Blastoise, hiding himself in his shell, IS a move.
Can be called move and can be backed up as one of his moves.
Breaking steel with water isn't any move, it can't be backed up as either a move or description. That's not even a Gameplay element! Because you can't do nor see that even in Gameplay battles. Is irrelevant. Still you want to use it as pure evidence? Nah... We are smarter than this, man. Hell, I'm even giving you a hand with a video, guys.



Lmao, that isn't something I think, is a fact. From the Anime you can bring whatever evidence you want, we can't say the same about the games. And who cares if Pokemon originates from a game? Who cares if a game was there first? That does not mean the Anime is less accurate when we can clearly see it's more accurate, unless you are disagreeing with the own creators. It's live motion, you have more than cutscenes there, mate. You can't ask for more, I envy you, actually.



Huh? You're losing completely my point here.



I don't know what you're trying to say here, honestly. What you say here even supports what I was saying. If Blastoise can pass through steel with water (I'm using logic), then a Pokemon would die after receiving that attack, I don't think Pikachu is harder than steel, you know, even if Blastoise doesn't want to kill it, his description states his water passes through steel. Either way, water, it doesn't matter how powerful is or can be, it can't pass through steel.



So Caterpie's body is/can be harder than pure steel? Caterpie is just an insect. Are you joking or something? I never said Pokemons weren't stronger. They are indeed very powerful. But they aren't Gods.



I don't think so. Look at Charizard, you can back the claim that he can melt a rock now. That seems weak to you? I don't know what to think, are you a Pokemon fan-boy? I'm asking, don't be offended, it's okay if you are.



It means you can back the claim that Charizard can melt rocks now if he focus his fire breath to it, as ScreamPaste suggested before, if I am not mistaken. This is evidence, I can't argue against evidence, you know? Because that's evidence. I saw Blastoise (Don't remember well) destroying rocks or something with his cannons I think, but not passing through steel!

Do you even realize what your argument is? You are saying the authority on Pokemon is inaccurate.

Inability means lacking in ability. As in, not able to do something. So now it has to be a move for a Pokemon to do it? 'cause that's pretty illogical.

Explain to me how you can actually believe that the anime is more accurate.

I got your point just fine. Pokemon are hax, you are ignoring this.

Yes.

Yeah, but the game Charizard is much more powerful. It melts 10,000 ton glaciers. Anime Charizard is pathetic by comparison. Yes, I am a Pokemon fanboy. Is it really difficult to tell?

But you have seen the Pokedex say it can. The Pokedex is accurate information.

And yeah guys, the Pokedex is totally nothing but Hyperbole. 'cause the only good Encyclopedias are filled with nothing but good old fashioned exaggeration.

well 2br - wikipedia is actually, by comparison, just as accurate (or rather inaccurate) as most if not all world encyclopaedia's

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Do you even realize what your argument is? You are saying the authority on Pokemon is inaccurate.

I'm using logic here. You seem to ignore my points, you are not even replying to them, you're repeating yourself. What? It wasn't you who called the Anime inaccurate? That isn't the authority on Pokemon too? Or the Anime is non-canon?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Inability means lacking in ability. As in, not able to do something.

I don't get it. I can understand though, that the only argument you have to back those claims, is that the game was before the Anime, therefore that Pokedex is evidence. That's all you've got to cover your argument. You can't back the claim that Machamp can move mountains with his arm, you simply can't. Because that never happened even in the games. Or you can see a Machamp moving a mountain at some part of the games?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
So now it has to be a move for a Pokemon to do it? 'cause that's pretty illogical.

I never said that. But you can't show he can do it, that's the point. You don't know how he can do it either. Plus, you lack evidence, simple as that.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Explain to me how you can actually believe that the anime is more accurate.

Explain why you believe the game is more accurate when you don't even have evidence should be the main question. You surely say the Anime is inaccurate, because we can't see Machamp moving mountains, right? But we can't see Machamp moving mountains in the games either. Th Anime shows how they fight, the game doesn't, not even a bit.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Pokemon are hax, you are ignoring this.

I'm not ignoring absolutely anything. Mate, are you conveniently repeating yourself here? Because that isn't helping to reach an agreement, at all. I think Pokemons are powerful.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Yes.

Yes what?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Yeah, but the game Charizard is much more powerful. It melts 10,000 ton glaciers. Anime Charizard is pathetic by comparison. Yes, I am a Pokemon fanboy. Is it really difficult to tell?

Really? Well show me a Charizard melting a glacier, then. The Pokedex also says he can melt rocks, but that's already backed up with a video. So I can't argue against that. You're a Pokemon fan-boy? Oh, that's cool. But please, try to be rational even if you're a fan-boy.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
But you have seen the Pokedex say it can. The Pokedex is accurate information.

And yeah guys, the Pokedex is totally nothing but Hyperbole. 'cause the only good Encyclopedias are filled with nothing but good old fashioned exaggeration.

Inaccurate information, you mean. Because we have nothing to rely on. Just in some vague descriptions like I said. That can't be backed up with any sort of evidence whatsoever. Don't misunderstand, I'm not disagreeing with 'canon', I'm just using logic to analyse canon. I have doubts, you know?

Originally posted by ares834
If Catarpie can tank a blast from Blastoise than he is indeed harder than steel

Then you're making things up. I guess I have checked and it doesn't says Caterpie is harder than steel. The game disagrees with you.
The logical reasoning here would be, if Caterpie can take a blast from Blastoise's water cannons, then he's not harder than steel.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
I'm using logic here. You seem to ignore my points, you are not even replying to them, you're repeating yourself. What? It wasn't you who called the Anime inaccurate? That isn't the authority on Pokemon too? Or the Anime is non-canon?



I don't get it. I can understand though, that the only argument you have to back those claims, is that the game was before the Anime, therefore that Pokedex is evidence. That's all you've got to cover your argument. You can't back the claim that Machamp can move mountains with his arm, you simply can't. Because that never happened even in the games. Or you can see a Machamp moving a mountain at some part of the games?



I never said that. But you can't show he can do it, that's the point. You don't know how he can do it either. Plus, you lack evidence, simple as that.



Explain why you believe the game is more accurate when you don't even have evidence should be the main question. You surely say the Anime is inaccurate, because we can't see Machamp moving mountains, right? But we can't see Machamp moving mountains in the games either. Th Anime shows how they fight, the game doesn't, not even a bit.



Yes what?



Really? Well show me a Charizard melting a glacier, then. The Pokedex also says he can melt rocks, but that's already backed up with a video. So I can't argue against that. You're a Pokemon fan-boy? Oh, that's cool. But please, try to be rational even if you're a fan-boy.



Inaccurate information, you mean. Because we have nothing to rely on. Just in some vague descriptions like I said. That can't be backed up with any sort of evidence whatsoever. Don't misunderstand, I'm not disagreeing with 'canon', I'm just using logic to analyse canon. I have doubts, you know?



Then you're making things up. I guess I have checked and it doesn't says Caterpie is harder than steel. The game disagrees with you.
The logical reasoning here would be, if Caterpie can take a blast from Blastoise's water cannons, then he's not harder than steel.

You haven't really said anything that needs to be. The anime is canon, but it tends to portray much weaker versions of the top tier Pokemon like Charizard. It also seems to overpower things like, say, Turtwig. Gardenia's anime Turtwig was incredible. Game Turtwig are not, despite being incredibly cool.

It doesn't need backing. It's a Pokedex quote. The sooner you understand this, the better.

Actually it's more or less what you said. Perhaps not your intention.

Because the Games do not fluctuate wildly in strength of Pokemon like the anime, in addition to being produced before the anime.

Yes to what you asked.

I can't show you that. Want to know why? Because the anime has a tendency to decrease the power of certain Pokemon while godtiering others which are normally much weaker. I was also wondering how long it would take you to play the fanboy card. Perhaps I should throw one right back at you.

No, I mean accurate information. You see, I don't need to be corrected when I'm not wrong.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
The anime is just as much canon, but it tends to portray much weaker versions of the top tier Pokemon like Charizard. It also seems to overpower things like, say, Turtwig. Gardenia's anime Turtwig was incredible. Game Turtwig are not, despite being incredibly cool.

But how do you know Charizard is weaker in the Anime? How can you compare the Charizard from the game with the one from the Anime? I bet it does the same in those battles. It seems you are having problems in understanding my point. You said Charizard can melt glaciers, but he did it or not? It doesn't matter if it's a game, they can make Charizard to melt a glacier if they want. But that's what I need to know. You said they can't do it outside battles. Then Charizard can melt glaciers inside a battle?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
It doesn't need backing. It's a Pokedex quote. The sooner you understand this, the better.

Actually it's more or less what you said. Perhaps not your intention.

You aren't saying anything new here... The one that needs to understand is you not me. You lack evidence, my friend. Don't you see is inconsistent? Machamp can move mountains with his arm, you said they can't do all of that outside battles, therefore Machamp can move mountains inside a battle. So he can throw mountains to his opponents inside battles or something?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Because the Games do not fluctuate wildly in strength of Pokemon like the anime, in addition to being produced before the anime.

Yes to what you asked.

Being produced before means nothing, as you admitted both are source of canon. You would be right if the Anime were an spin-off which is not. I said the Anime have more showings, is logical, can be backed up and it is not inconsistent as these descriptions are. But that's okay... It's hard to make a fan-boy to understand. If you could read well what I'm writting you'll realize I'm not trying to change your mind, I just want you to understand me. This topic will continue, I don't want to change any rules, please, don't worry.

Be gentle and refresh my memory, I don't remember what I have asked at this point.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I can't show you that. Want to know why? Because the anime has a tendency to decrease the power of certain Pokemon while godtiering others which are normally much weaker. I was also wondering how long it would take you to play the fanboy card. Perhaps I should throw one right back at you.

No, I mean accurate information. You see, I don't need to be corrected when I'm not wrong.

And the game has tendency to exaggerate their powers, I have already explained it though. If we follow the logic that the game was before the Anime, thus is more important, then we'll have to delete all the other games that came after the Anime since they came after, that's illogical, you admitted both are source of canon. All of what you can see in the Anime does NOT need to be backed up. What's a fan-boy card?

Without evidence and inconsistent.
I didn't said you were wrong though... The whole thing it doesn't fit.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Machamp#Game_data
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Blastoise_(Pok%C3%A9mon)#Game_data

This is Pokedex data. Because the Pokedex is the official game source, it is FACT, and nothing you, I, or anyone says can change this. Blastoise can shoot through steel. This is fact, and doesn't have to be backed up, for the simple reason that that the Pokedex itself backs it up by stating FACTS. The Pokedex lists the feat, so the Pokedex is the feat.

It's really quite simple: If the Game Pokedex says it, it is true. That's it, no more, no less. The anime can be used for other feats, but if it contradicts the Game Pokedex, the Game Pokedex takes precedence.

Originally posted by The Scenario
The anime can be used for other feats, but if it contradicts the Game Pokedex, the Game Pokedex takes precedence.

How come you have the authority to decide what takes priority here? Aren't both sources of canon? I have been accused of 'judge', but I don't have authority over anything that isn't mine. Unless this was already stated by the creators that the: 'games' takes priority over the Anime. Or unless is a rule already established by the one that made this thread (Although that doesn't contradict what the creators could say anyway). If that's the case, my apologies.

the original source ALWAYS takes precedence - that its the rule of canon

Originally posted by MadMel
the original source ALWAYS takes precedence - that its the rule of canon

Rule of canon? And where are the rules of canon?
Aren't both sources original? Aren't both canon? I know we gotta use elements from games and not from Anime to debate here, but that does not mean the games takes priorities unless the creators states such thing. What the creators says about their work is a rule of canon.

what i meant, was whichever came first - the games or the anime - takes precedence

Originally posted by MadMel
what i meant, was whichever came first - the games or the anime - takes precedence

But not priorities, unless the creators... You know the story.

i used to go to the star wars vs all the time
trust, me, i could recite 'the story' backwards, upside down and in german, while on fire

the highest form of canon is of course, the creators
then the creations
then the spinoffs who's story is supervised by the creators

i would say the anime falls into the 3rd category

Originally posted by MadMel
i used to go to the star wars vs all the time
trust, me, i could recite 'the story' backwards, upside down and in german, while on fire

the highest form of canon is of course, the creators
then the creations
then the spinoffs who's story is supervised by the creators

i would say the anime falls into the 3rd category

Hmm.... Category? Well, I would say it falls into the first one. The creators. Unless you provide evidence that the Anime is an spin-off, of course.