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First, sorry if this isn't the correct sub-forum, I think it is though.

Who is in your list for most powerful dark jedi/sith?

Examples and sources applauded.

I will start:

Kas'im (DLOTS)
Reasons: Basically he taught Bane everything he knew about multi saber styles. In his final duel with Bane he would have beaten him, but Bane sent a shockwave of dark side energy which crumbled the temple onto him.

Completely owned by accident, and in a 1v1 Saber duel I can't name anyone more skilled.

starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kas%27im

N.

Possibly the greatest TK feat in the mythos, gargantuan scale in all endeavors.

Kas'im?



But yeah. Palpatine, Bane, Caedus, Vader, Nihilus, Marek, Dooku probably. Can't really think of another three. Krayt? Revan? Ragnos? Eh?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Kas'im?

But yeah. Palpatine, Bane, Caedus, Vader, Nihilus, Marek, Dooku probably. Can't really think of another three. Krayt? Revan? Ragnos? Eh?


Dunno about Dooku- he was strong to be sure, but he ultimately lost to Jedi Knight level Anakin.


Ragnos, it's hard to tell since we never saw him active. Muur is another one with that problem- very powerful spirit and talisman, but it's hard to tell what they were really like at their peak.

1. Sidious
2. Nihilus
3. Bane
4. Zannah
5. Vader
6. Caedus
7. Exar Kun
8. Starkiller (not Galen Marek)
9. Traya
10. Dooku

There are some others who I'm not sure about, like Gethzeron, UnuThul and Abeloth, but thats pretty much it. Also Kar Vastor, if he counts.

Jerec ???

Jerec was below Vader, I don't think he's top 10.

Mostly we're going to be looking at Sith Masters.

1. Sidious
2. Caedus
3. Vader
4. Revan
5. Nihilus
6. Traya
7. Exar Kun
8. Starkiller
9. Dooku
10. Jerec

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
1. Sidious
2. Caedus
3. Vader
4. Revan
5. Nihilus
6. Traya
7. Exar Kun
8. Starkiller
9. Dooku
10. Jerec

I like this, but replace Traya with someone else, to start. Maybe Bane?

Maybe Vader with Sunrider?

Or Ulic?

I think Krayt would beat Dooku or Jerec fairly solidly, and definitely has more accomplishments than either.



Sunrider's light side.

Originally posted by Q99
I think Krayt would beat Dooku or Jerec fairly solidly, and definitely has more accomplishments than either.



Sunrider's light side.

I thought we were still doing overall top ten. I rarely read topic titles.

So then how 'bout a list of all of the Dark side users, then we can cut the ones that suck?

Jerec was powerful, but I don't believe he was in the top ten.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis

So then how 'bout a list of all of the Dark side users, then we can cut the ones that suck?

There's a pretty huge number of dark side users all-in-all.

Very huge.

Maybe we could start by listing the best candidates of each era.

Starting from the back:
Legacy- Darth Krayt. The next most powerful Sith, Wyyrlok, is likely not top-10 level. Krayt himself is a century+ old force user of great skill and power.

NJO- Caedus is really the only Sith of note.

Post-movies- Joruus C'baoth.

Rebellion/Dark Times- Sidious, Vader, Starkiller.

Clone War era- Mostly the ones that were around in the rebellion era.

1,000 years ago- Bane, Zannah, Kas'im. Kaan is also powerful but for various reasons won't make anyone's list.

4,000 years ago- Revan, Nihilus, Treya, Exar Kun

Past that- Muur, XoXaan, Ragnos... really, things are very fuzzy here in terms of how much data we have so I'd leave them off for that reason.

#1. Palpatine.

The rest would probably include Nihilus, Bane, Ragnos, Caedus, Starkiller, Vader, Gethzerion, Dooku, Maul?, Kas'im?, Sadow?

Edit: Forgot Muur.

Kun would go before Kas'im, I think, and certainly before Starkiller, Vader, or maul.

RN
Kun would go before Kas'im, I think, and certainly before Starkiller, Vader, or maul.

That was in random order.

And if Kun goes before Starkiller, he'll definitely go before Kas'im.

Originally posted by Gideon
That was in random order.

And if Kun goes before Starkiller, he'll definitely go before Kas'im.
yes

Gethzerion, can't believe I forgot her.

Originally posted by Q99


Mostly we're going to be looking at Sith Masters.

And dark jedi if you look at the title again...

Well most people on the list are Sith Lords, so...

So...........maybe change the title??

The title already has both.

Non-Sith who are possibilities include Joruus, Starkiller (he never got to be a Sith Lord, though was an apprentice to a sith apprentice), the occasionally mentioned Jerec (who I think isn't strong enough). Most of the top are Sith, though.

INPO:

Darth Bane
Darth Zannah
Darth Sion
Darth Nihilus
Lord Nyax
UnuThul
Darth Revan
Darth Malak
Marka Ragnos
Naga Sadow

Originally posted by Kazenji
So...........maybe change the title??

I don't feel that you need to have the Sith title in order to be a powerful Dark Side user. A Sith and Dark Side force user were basically just two different mind sets. One wanted galactic domination, the other wanted only power, but didn't give a damn about the galaxy. I like these lists so far, and I would like to create a top 10 template using everyone's input.

I want to include battles. As well. For example: If I want Reven on this list, I'm going to include his epic dominance over Malak and the mando wars etc.

Yea, you don't *have* to be a Sith to be a top, it's just Sith is the biggest group of Dark Side users and usually, but not always, the most powerful.

Forgot about Bane guys - my apologies.

Bane who?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Bane who?

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070301051948/forgottenrealms/images/8/84/Bane.JPG

Tim Curry?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Tim Curry?

It was joke. That picture is of one of the greater gods from th Forgotten Realms Campaign setting for D&D and his name is Bane.

Is he played by Tim Curry?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Is he played by Tim Curry?

No, Bane is the god of dictators and douchebags everywhere, but he isn't crazy.

Tim Curry would make an awesome Sith Lord

Originally posted by Q99
Dunno about Dooku- he was strong to be sure, but he ultimately lost to Jedi Knight level Anakin.


Ragnos, it's hard to tell since we never saw him active. Muur is another one with that problem- very powerful spirit and talisman, but it's hard to tell what they were really like at their peak. Dooku was far past his prime, and Anakin was just entering his own.

Originally posted by Amazing Vrayo!!
Dooku was far past his prime, and Anakin was just entering his own.

But in his prime we don't know how strong he was in the force, and he's only been Sith for the last 10 years.

Originally posted by Amazing Vrayo!!
Dooku was far past his prime, and Anakin was just entering his own.

Dooku was in his prime. Sure he may not have been as fit as when he was young but he never had such mastery with the force. Regardless, Dooku's saber style hardly required him to be in perfectly fit condition to use effectively.
Need I remind you of AotC
YODA: Powerful you have become, Dooku. The dark side I
sense in you.

COUNT DOOKU: I have become more powerful than any Jedi.
Even you, my old Master.

Yeah, in Star Wars, if youth is the determining factor in a Jedi/Sith's prime then Palpatine must have literally been a f*cking GOD when he was 25.


And then there's Luke. We actually get to see what he did was he 25. Not a God, yet.

Originally posted by ares834

Dooku was in his prime. Sure he may not have been as fit as when he was young but he never had such mastery with the force. Regardless, Dooku's saber style hardly required him to be in perfectly fit condition to use effectively.
Need I remind you of AotC
YODA: Powerful you have become, Dooku. The dark side I
sense in you.

COUNT DOOKU: I have become more powerful than any Jedi.
Even you, my old Master. I did mean physical prime not mental prime so sorry about that. About the quote though, Dooku was a liar...he lied about almost everything; even things that he thought were true. He did indeed get beat up by lil orphan Ani, when he could still be debatably considered a jedi.Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Yeah, in Star Wars, if youth is the determining factor in a Jedi/Sith's prime then Palpatine must have literally been a f*cking GOD when he was 25.


And then there's Luke. We actually get to see what he did was he 25. Not a God, yet. Once again, physical not mental prime, and we could see from the hunch that sidious needed much assistance from the force while fighting. If he just fought straight up like badass sammy jackson then he probably wouldn't do so well. This applies to Dooku because in the fight where he played the amazing headless count, he mostly used his lightsaber. He used his force a bit and that worked out for him well, because he pwnzord Obi. He tried to saber Ani and it didn't work out quite as well, hence, the neckache. What I'm trying to say is, Dooku relied upon his physical prowess more than sidious did, and that's why age deteriorated his skill.

Dooku wasn't in his prime, so although he was stronger, more skilled and more matured in his power, he needed to expend more of it just to remain on a even keel with Anakin than Anakin did. The novel also shows he was actively replenishing himself on Force reserves and relying more heavily on those reserves just to keep fighting. While Anakin just got stronger and stronger. Eventually he was in a position where Anakin could kill him literally just by wanting to.

The same argument could be made for Yoda. He just reached the point were he had no hope of victory by continuing the fight due to simply losing on attrition, which is why he just cuts and runs.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Dooku wasn't in his prime, so although he was stronger, more skilled and more matured in his power, he needed to expend more of it just to remain on a even keel with Anakin than Anakin did. The novel also shows he was actively replenishing himself on Force reserves and relying more heavily on those reserves just to keep fighting. While Anakin just got stronger and stronger. Eventually he was in a position where Anakin could kill him literally just by wanting to.

The same argument could be made for Yoda. He just reached the point were he had no hope of victory by continuing the fight due to simply losing on attrition, which is why he just cuts and runs. thanks for the assist....what he said!

And to note, Anakin was fueling himself with the Force in the week between arriving on Coruscant and his fall. He hadn't been eating or sleeping. Physical prowess mattered.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
And to note, Anakin was fueling himself with the Force in the week between arriving on Coruscant and his fall. He hadn't been eating or sleeping. Physical prowess mattered. Hmmm, I need to read the book.

You should, its sooo much better than the film.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Dooku wasn't in his prime, so although he was stronger, more skilled and more matured in his power, he needed to expend more of it just to remain on a even keel with Anakin than Anakin did. The novel also shows he was actively replenishing himself on Force reserves and relying more heavily on those reserves just to keep fighting. While Anakin just got stronger and stronger. Eventually he was in a position where Anakin could kill him literally just by wanting to.

"Skywalker was all over him. The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike; the Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker was getting stronger. Each parry cost Dooku more power than he'd used to throw Kenobi across the room; each block aged him a decade. He decided he'd best revise his strategy once again. He no longer even tried to strike back. Force exhaustion began to close down his perceptions, drawing his consciousness back down to his physical form, trapping him within his own skull until he could barely even feel the contours of the room around him; he dimly sensed stairs at his back, stairs that led up to the entrance balcony. He retreated up them, using the higher ground for leverage, but Skywalker just kept on coming, tirelessly ferocious."

The underlined gives a nice visual testament as to how much power Dooku was expelling vs. Anakin.

i should read more eu. i liked the way that was written.

thats Mathew stover right? he wrote shatterpoint too right? blax recommended it to me a long time ago but i never read it

Yes, it was written by Stover. Yes, he also wrote Shatterpoint. Yes, you should follow the recommendation.

Originally posted by ares834

Dooku was in his prime. Sure he may not have been as fit as when he was young but he never had such mastery with the force. Regardless, Dooku's saber style hardly required him to be in perfectly fit condition to use effectively.
Need I remind you of AotC
YODA: Powerful you have become, Dooku. The dark side I
sense in you.

COUNT DOOKU: I have become more powerful than any Jedi.
Even you, my old Master.

Yea, that wasn't true Sith get so full of themselves.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
i should read more eu. i liked the way that was written.

thats Mathew stover right? he wrote shatterpoint too right? blax recommended it to me a long time ago but i never read it FOLLOW the RECOMMENDATION.


RotS novel was one of the best Star Wars books. Right behind Crystal Star.

shatterpoint or Dark Rendevous are probably two of my fav's.

Originally posted by Nephthys
1. Sidious
2. Nihilus
3. Bane
4. Zannah
5. Vader
6. Caedus
7. Exar Kun
8. Starkiller (not Galen Marek)
9. Traya
10. Dooku

There are some others who I'm not sure about, like Gethzeron, UnuThul and Abeloth, but thats pretty much it. Also Kar Vastor, if he counts.

What do you mean by (not Galen Marek)

Originally posted by akpwnz
What do you mean by (not Galen Marek) Post getting blitzed by Sidious?

I say you could pick any one of the ancient Sith Lords and they'd be Number 1... if it wasn't for other ancient Sith, of course. Kun, Revan, Nihilus, Traya and Ruin were certainly extremely powerful. Bane, Zannah, Sidious, Yoda, Mace and Luke were pretty powerful, although I don't see Yoda beating, say, Arca Jeth or Vodo Siosk-Baas or Odan-Ur, and even Zannah (who at least learned some Sith sorcery) would have to fall to Revan.

So, hard to say, really. Unfortunately we don't know the names of many of the ancient Sith Lords who are described as being able to conquer death and had much forgotten knowledge of the Force.

Originally posted by AncientSithLord
I say you could pick any one of the ancient Sith Lords and they'd be Number 1... if it wasn't for other ancient Sith, of course. Kun, Revan, Nihilus, Traya and Ruin were certainly extremely powerful. Bane, Zannah, Sidious, Yoda, Mace and Luke were pretty powerful, although I don't see Yoda beating, say, Arca Jeth or Vodo Siosk-Baas or Odan-Ur, and even Zannah (who at least learned some Sith sorcery) would have to fall to Revan.

So, hard to say, really. Unfortunately we don't know the names of many of the ancient Sith Lords who are described as being able to conquer death and had much forgotten knowledge of the Force. This post is infallible and truthful in the greatest sense of the words. Never before have facts been laid out so thoughtfully and meaningfully. It's also totally not fat.

As noted, the terrificness content is high.

i think its interesting that we have all taken the don't even reply tact, without even coordinating it first.

What is there to reply to?

There are a bunch of assertions but not a lot of facts. It might be interesting if someone would condescend to assert the opposite, but I'm gonna wait for this guy to actually make an argument before evaluating him.

This is an example of what Colbert would call "truthiness".

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100217003144/bleach/en/images/a/a1/Hitsugaya_stabbing_Momo.jpg

I lol'd.

Who didn't lol when they saw that page for the first time?

lol mindrape

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/vp/36860036#36860036
What hath man wrought?

http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae334/UMetalviBarlwtannia/1265313066344.jpg

131

Another image ruined by Comic sans.

This isn't really on subject, but have any Jedi (not Jedi/Sith converts) ever used force lightning offensively? I know Luke used something akin to FL, but it wasn't FL in the literal sense.

Anyone know?

Yes. For a time the Jedi believed in the philosophy of the Unified Force, which basically states that Light and Dark sides of the Force are just that, two sides of the same thing. And so since Jedi just follow the force, not the light side they allow themselves to use the darkside as well. Thus we find Luke, Mara, Jaina and Jacen in DNcrisis using choke and lightning and even torture!

Of course Luke, pansy that he is, gets uncomfortable with this and says that even if the Force isn't light or dark, people are and so they should go back to being nice. Also Kyle Katarn and Jacen Korr.

Katarn still uses lightning, does he not? And was Luke's electric judgement darksideE?

Don't forget Kloon has also used lightning.

If they were all using Electric Judgment in the same manner with the same mentality, then there would be no feelings of anger or aggression associated with it. According to Wookiee, Koon stated that he had not felt any anger or fear as he let out the blast Force lightning and was indeed calm and in control of his emotions. The Council asked him to contemplate whether he felt it was wrong of him to have utilized its power during the mission and whether he would use it again.

After much meditation, Koon concluded that it would be wrong of him to ignore its power and that he should develop it into a useful technique. As requested by the Council, he recorded his experiences with the Force lightning that he dubbed "Electric Judgment" on the Great Holocron.

Originally posted by truejedi
Katarn still uses lightning, does he not? And was Luke's electric judgement darksideE?

Don't forget Kloon has also used lightning.

Luke used EJ?

Plo is the only Jedi I know of that was able to use confirmed force lightning several times, without displaying so much as a hint of dark sided tendencies.

/shrug

Katarn? And Luke? The lightning didn't push Luke towards the Darkside, Mara's death did.

And Shoes: Yes, Luke uses Green Force lightning in the Unifying Force.

he also uses regular lightning in Dark Nest.

Originally posted by truejedi
Green Force lightning

BUT IS THAT ELECTRIC JUDGEMENT?

never actually confirmed. it is largely assumed to be.

who cares? theres no such thing as "electric judgement" and "emerald lightning". its the same force.

That's like a Presbyterian and a Methodist saying "it's the same God."

shut up lucian.

you crazy american.



i didnt mean force as in, "the force"

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
shut up lucian.

you crazy american.



i didnt mean force as in, "the force" Don't you ever f*cking call me "English" again.

He prefers Great Britainish.

Ok guys, I made this thread into a post using everyone's suggestions furiousfanboys.com/2010/05/the-10-most-powerful-force-users-of-the-dark-side/

i thought you were true jedi for a second

me too for a second. Thought i'd been phished or something.

parental controls blocks the site.

I'm gonna claim bonus points if it hosts a virus of some kind, and rage-aneurysm points if it doesn't.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
parental controls blocks the site.

I'm gonna claim bonus points if it hosts a virus of some kind, and rage-aneurysm points if it doesn't.

It leads to a site which leads to another site that has nekkid pictures.

Originally posted by akpwnz
Ok guys, I made this thread into a post using everyone's suggestions furiousfanboys.com/2010/05/the-10-most-powerful-force-users-of-the-dark-side/
Nice list. Hit most of the big ones.

Just a thought...When we get to play Star Wars the Old Republic the emperor is over 1300yrs. old. So I think he needs an Honorable mention here because how the hell does someone use the Dark side that long without being worn out! Also from swtor Darth Malgus is the Dark Lord of the Sith who takes out the Jedi Temple (with help). The Emperor is His boss so whats up with Him? More expanded universe books are coming out for Star Wars the Old Republic so we all will get some new info.

Semi bump.

My list:

1. Luke
2. Sidious
3. Yoda
4. Caedus (originally Mace, but I changed my mind)
5. Galen
6. Mace
7. Nihilus
8. Bane
9. Dooku
10. Anakin, Obi Wan and Vader

This isn't taking unknowns into account, since they're unknowns. It also isn't taking things such as orbalisks/amulets into account, nor is it taking Zenoma Sekot/Abeloth/other beings like that.