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Battle takes place in Gotham City.

Teen Titans, Go!

Discuss.

wolvie wins this depending on what tricks they have up their sleeves.

I'd go with the pair. Nightwing is good enough to hold off Logan for awhile, and Arsenal is going to have something that'll restrain him in his trick arrow quiver.

Yea, depends what aresenal has. Not to familiar with his equipment but does he have anything that can relistaically take down Logan for a win?

Sorry but Nightwing won't last too long against Logan.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
Yea, depends what aresenal has. Not to familiar with his equipment but does he have anything that can relistaically take down Logan for a win?

Sorry but Nightwing won't last too long against Logan.

Not really long, but long enough, especially with Roy's support.

Glue arrow might do, it's designed for super-strong targets. There's explosive, electric, nets, magnetic, cables, lots of stuff that'll slow him down too or could be used to tie him up.

Titans can win this depending on Roy's ordinance.

...

...

...

Seriously?

Wolverine rage stomps.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Seriously?

Wolverine rage stomps.

No?

These are two extremely skilled fighters. Wolverine is not going to stomp them even if he wins. Arsenal has pretty much perfect aim and quite an, ahem, arsenal of tricks at his disposal, and Dick's given Deathstroke a fight on several occasions.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
...

...

...

Seriously?

Wolverine rage stomps. trick arrows say no

Originally posted by Q99
No?

These are two extremely skilled fighters. Wolverine is not going to stomp them even if he wins. Arsenal has pretty much perfect aim and quite an, ahem, arsenal of tricks at his disposal, and Dick's given Deathstroke a fight on several occasions.

How about Yes?

Arsenals aim is inconsequential since none of his trick arrows will even slow Wolverine down.

Since you wanted to bring up Deathstroke. Nightwing has on occasion given Deathstroke a fight because despite Slade's physical advantages he isn't has skilled a fighter as Dick, and his arrogance has allowed Dick to exploit this for brief windows of oppertunity. If Dick lands the first blow on Slade or catches him off guard, his superior fighting skills allow him to keep Slade off balance. However, the majority of the time Slade stomps Nightwing into the ground pretty much effortlessly, and the same with Arsenal. Wolverine is pretty much a mirror image of Deathstroke physically, only he has a much better healing factor, better strength feats and his a better fighter. This fight would last as long as Wolverine's fights with Shatterstar last, three panels, if Dick and Roy are lucky.

The suggestion that Dick and Roy even put up a fight is insulting. Do some research.

Team.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
How about Yes?

Arsenals aim is inconsequential since none of his trick arrows will even slow Wolverine down.
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/4218/hftoweak1girlcomics1.th.jpg
buscuits

lol

wolverine ftw, the only hope is roy and his wpns f#$@ the trick arrows they aint doing squat roy would need to bring his bazookas.. guns and tech wpns to put logan down by sheer damage and blunt force explosive damage..

wolverine 8/10

Originally posted by Parmaniac
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/4218/hftoweak1girlcomics1.th.jpg
buscuits

Isn't that a dream sequence?

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee113/wolverinerespectthread/th_Wolverine41-028.jpghttp://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee113/wolverinerespectthread/th_Wolverine41-029.jpghttp://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee113/wolverinerespectthread/th_Wolverine41-030.jpghttp://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee113/wolverinerespectthread/th_Wolverine41-031.jpghttp://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee113/wolverinerespectthread/th_Wolverine41-032.jpghttp://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee113/wolverinerespectthread/th_Wolverine41-033.jpg

That's only if he decides to tank the arrows. He has cut barrages of arrows out of the air when the mode suits him, he has even caught arrows and thrown them back at the shooters... hell, he probably has better accuracy feats than Roy does if we are being honest.

you tell em...srank.. i cant find that comic in my collection anymore but i liked it.. it showed that logan had to do something black panther couldnt..

Yeah its one of my favourite issues of Wolverine. Logan and Cub? Awesome. Not sure why another hasn't figured that out. They all struggle with making Wolverine vulnerable, which is difficult because the man has survived two nukes and a decapitation, and is pretty much functionally immortal. Putting a baby into the mix is perfect, it makes Wolverine vulnerable, alludes to Lone Wolf and Cub and highlights all the best qualities of Wolverine's character.

the only problem i had with it, i think logan didnt kill any of the kid soldiers, i dont think.his cis would allow it when push came to shove.

Roy can use all types of weapons. Just not arrows, so Logan isn't on par aim wise. Depending on the arrows he has, Roy could take him down. Nightwing dies, though.

aim wise logan is superhuman... roy could never hope to match logans aim.. two shots inside a quarter perfect with a handgun seems something Roy hasnt done or can replicate.

Because of his senses, but Roy is more skilled, IMO.

Team die in a quick death. Because really, the only advantage of the team is that Nightwing know well the city. Too bad that Wolverine can track them down easely.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Because of his senses, but Roy is more skilled, IMO. again even skill wise logan is above Roy and Dick.. do i need to remind someone that logan took down a WW2 fighter plane with nothing but a sword and wrist flick? right into the engine block..

not the only time he has casually thrown or tossed swords into object and ppl and send them flying into a wall and pinned them..

Is that supposed to be impressive?

it would be if Dick and Roy were watching and have them question their skills and ability to win against him.eek

Roy doesn't have super human stats, yet he can hit targets miles away with ease.

hmm.. is that b/c of the high tech weapon or is it under his own ability? pls explain..

Both, really.

if its with a rifle or certain type of gear i really wouldnt put much stock in it or even claim it cant be replicated by someone with superhuman abilities military black ops training in weapons handling for well over decades.

Wolverine knocked a helicopter out of the sky by throwing a wrench at it. He also has thrown three throwing darts into the backs of one another on the bullseye... and he might have been Patch at the time (I forget), which would mean he had no depth perception. He's also gotten the bullseye without looking over his shoulder as well. He also caught an arrow shot at him (the guy was so far away he didn't think Wolverine was a human so thats pretty far) and throw it back and hit him. He has pretty crazy aim.

now lets hear Roy top that? high 5!

Again, nothing Roy couldn't do. Wolverine also cut Storm's clothes, which I found crazy. And she was flying at super speed.

Anyway, I think Roy is more skilled in aim overall.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Isn't that a dream sequence? I have no clue and for some reason my "buscuits" smiley diddn't showed up, the post wasn't meant serious, more to pick on you guys a little. Ask StiltmanFTW.

Roy is sorta DC's Bullseye, at least with actual weapons (he can't make a playing card or tooth effective. He could throw and hit with it, but it'd do realistic damage i.e. none). He has pretty much perfect aim with weapons of all kinds, guns, bows, etc.. Hence, 'Arsenal,' he's not just good with bows.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

That's only if he decides to tank the arrows. He has cut barrages of arrows out of the air when the mode suits him, he has even caught arrows and thrown them back at the shooters...

*Trick* arrows.

How is that going to help against glue arrows, bolos with multi-ton break strengths, and explosives? And keep in mind it's while fighting a Nightwing-level fighter at the same time to divert his attention, more hits will be landed by each because there's more things to worry about.


If he did catch one, Roy'd shoot it down on the way back.




Even if he won, how would it be quick? They're very hard to tag and are going to get their share of attacks in.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Battle takes place in Gotham City.

Teen Titans, Go!

Discuss. Teen Titans GO? Robin from the show comes and stomps Logan.

logan b$@@! slaps dick for a ko while pulling his slap so not to kill him or decapitate him with his natural strength..

also he manhandles him easily like he did shang or DD in the past...

DD's done plenty well against Logan on occasion.


--

Good martial artists make Wolverine work for wins all the time, what comics are the people who think he blows through them even reading?

yeah.. on occasion like when he's written by garth ennis or logan is being literally controlled by outside tech.. usually they are not just plain MA artist they happen to be some sort of meta.

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/2512/shangchi3eu5.jpg

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
yeah.. on occasion like when he's written by garth ennis or logan is being literally controlled by outside tech..

Or heck, you mentioned Shang Chi. There's a comic where Chi is Logan's teacher and smacks him around in training.

Gambit has taken him on in hand to hand.

Capt does great against him.

There's a bunch of stories where Logan falls into the martial arts world and has to fight tough foes and, although he wins, has to really work for it.


Even when Logan *wins* it just simply isn't that easy most of the time, it's only a breeze when he gets lucky. Which makes sense! A nidge faster + claws does not equal curbstomp and it's silly that so many people think it does.

the shang chi training is 1st class and i believe is non canon seeing as shang had never met logan until the late 90's,... logan and shang hadnt met prior to that seriously poor continuity.. but anyways.. when logan falls into the MA world they are always seem to be prenatural not just human.. or they cheat poison him or set him up.. examples canceling out his HF with tailored drugs designed just for him..

ps logan has dozens of fights where he steam rolls right through peak/olympic humans with no other power but just skill.. so its not like it isnt a norm for logan not to do so..

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/546/marvelcomicspresents151qe0.jpg

duo

That was first class?

Well then how about when he visited the San Fran underworld recently? Came in, get his tail kicked, got retrained by an old master, yadda yadda.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow

ps logan has dozens of fights where he steam rolls right through peak/olympic humans with no other power but just skill.. so its not like it isnt a norm for logan not to do so..

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/546/marvelcomicspresents151qe0.jpg

And dozens where he doesn't, especially if they're major existing characters.


That scan there doesn't exactly say a lot- he gains the edge against Matt when he tells her the person is Typhoid Mary?

Not exactly a steam roll.

Dick decides to stop being a dick and takes up Jason on his "Still brothers" offer. He and Arsenal then go out shopping as Jason steamrolls Logan.

Then penetrates Babs

In a Fury, Dick and Arsenal attempt to take down Jason. the epic beatdown afterwards only ends when Jason strikes a match on Dicks now exposed skull, lights a cigar, and heads back over to Bab's.

Thus ends the best.comic.ever.

logan has steamed rolled through cap of all ppl while handicapped brainwashed.. if you read manifest destiny you see him do it to an elite team of MA'ers with mystic abilities..

Zaran had to poison logan to even have a chance and he failed miserably even with the handicap..

same with shingen although logan lost the 1st fight the second fight in he won fight only lasted like three or four pages..

again logan steam rolled through shingen, lazear, shogun and the female sorcerer two at a time and even three...

if you read more wolverine the logan struggling with one relative known hero is not the norm not by far by his established history its done to sell comics and make one or both look good rather then to write the obvious outcome.

I know that Elektra has more wins on him than vice-versa, and taunts him on the fact.

One peak-human doing well against him happens enough to no longer be considered a fluke even if he has an edge. Can he win quickly? Yes. Is it a given? Far from it!

And this isn't even one, it's two! Two on one is rather more difficult than one on one.

and you think elekra is similar to dick?

she is a trained mystic ninja with added psionic abilities who has knowledge of logan and she hasnt beaten him where she can claim it as a win but simply survived the encounters care to tell me how she won?

she sure as hell hasnt ko'ed him as far as i remember or BFR.. maybe momentarily incapacitate him or get some points in sparring match..

logan has said it himself he is faster stronger better fighter the her but she always wins,,, in what exercise fighting and her picking fights with him.. what did elekra do? read his mind and said yes to all of them but difference is she said she fights to kill where logan does not he holds back.. which is why she always wins their little games.

fail on the elektra dick comparison by a long shot..

by the way during a training session logan moved so fast he jumped over elektra in mid leap and sheath the sword he had in his hand back into its sheath on elektra's back b4 she landed or knew what logan did.. logan stated he wasnt in the mood to fight or train with her and hinted at the outcome.


also brain washed logan fight inside a ship corridor is not a win for elektra if your counting that.. she stated herself she couldnt get near logan and knew she was outclassed by logan hence she used shield agents as distraction and timing.. difference is logan was brainwashed and his CIS wasnt the norm when it comes to her..
might as well claim shadowcat, yukio are all better fighters then him b/c he would never risk harming them in a real fight or training practice and they capitalize on that fact..

Yeah, but, Dick was like, totally trained by Batman.

Noob.

here this is how logan treats and steam rolls through elite meta MA'ers..

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/5485/azraelshogun7vy3.jpg
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/1172/azraelshogun8qf9.jpg

link to the page with full story scans..
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=486007&pagenumber=3

again he did the same in manifest destiny also literally walked right over the entire genX team although not MA'er still highly impressive.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee113/wolverinerespectthread/WMD_04_Oroboros_DCP_016.jpg

logan has also taken both Lady D and Sabe at the same time in a down and dirty fight.

No force on earth or anywhere else for that matter can beat the Teen Titans Robin. :

nonsense.. the only reason logan wouldnt win would be b/c of some massive CIS if he was saw teen titan robin in his hot shorts and peter pan shoes...

otherwise in his grownup costume this is how he would treat them..

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/5686/weaponx020019.jpghttp://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee113/wolverinerespectthread/uncanny510p15.jpg
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/3770/weaponx020018.jpg

and neither dick or roy have any superhuman speed reaction time, durability.. Hf or even close to logan's lvl of MA knowledge skill or even spirit A.Q. Aggressive Qualities..

I meant Teen Titans cartoon Robin. He's an indestructible killing machine. Batkick x by 10.

Random no-name 'elite martial artists' are not exactly Nightwing.

These two have taken on groups of deadly fighters on many occasions too, y'know.



They have, however, taken on people with more superhuman speed, reaction time, durability (who also had healing factors even)... Dick's one of the most agile people on the planet too, and they're skilled enough to fight someone of his level. Roy's plenty accurate to hit him too, without worrying about hitting Dick.

And it's two-on-one, so it's not even a question of whether one of them could do it.

you think betsy and Lady D..
sabe and lady D

Lady D and omega red..

Lasear.. shogun.. shingen and the predhra are all no name?

you my friend are smoking crack and seriously lost any credibility in your argument im done with you.

I have never heard of "Lazaer" and "Phaedra" before this thread and a check on the marvel wikia shows they're both recent and Lazaer is a supernatural who skilled humans have beaten before multiple times.


Sabertooth, Lady Deathstrike, Shingen? Those are all ones that give him very hard fights. Shingen especially is a good example of my point. Logan does not walk over these people easily every time, it's a pretty absurd suggestion to say that he does.


Occasionally Wolverine will have an odd fight where he beats his tough foes quickly (and likewise there is times when Nightwing has flat-out outmaneuvered Deathstroke), but of course they have plenty of good showings against him too.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine knocked a helicopter out of the sky by throwing a wrench at it. He also has thrown three throwing darts into the backs of one another on the bullseye... and he might have been Patch at the time (I forget), which would mean he had no depth perception. He's also gotten the bullseye without looking over his shoulder as well. He also caught an arrow shot at him (the guy was so far away he didn't think Wolverine was a human so thats pretty far) and throw it back and hit him. He has pretty crazy aim.

we wasn't even looking at it iirc

Ughhh....

Elektra is strictly a meta to superhuman and has powers abilities and skills that outstrip Robin by multitudes...

The only times that Logan's ever had problems with peak humans and olympic level beings is when he's
1.) Compromised in his healing factor or brainwashed to compensate for the person he's fighting.
2.) The person he's fighting has non physical superhuman attributes like TP.
or 3.) Straight up Ennis PIS.

Other than that.. yeah he typically tends to steamroll through streets, even skilled streets. That's just the way it is.

at Azreal, the Angel of Death being a no-name fighter

"Beats," yes. "Steamrolls," no.



She's better but still generally a streetleveler.



See, this is a good example that counters your argument. His healing factor being compromised wouldn't matter one whit if he steamrolled- he takes major hits often in fights against skilled martial artists.



This version hasn't exactly gone against many big-name fighters, and it's mentioned that others have beaten him twice before Logan.

Wolverine I guess.

Originally posted by Q99

This version hasn't exactly gone against many big-name fighters, and it's mentioned that others have beaten him twice before Logan.

it is also mentioned that he has killed other men and women like Wolverine before, and he had been doing it for a millennia.

and it also states that Wolverine "hasnt faced a foe before or since possessing such skill, such ferocity, and such strength."

Honestly I not even tyring to be mean but dam Q99 you gotta stop amost every dam time you open your mouth about Wolverine your wrong........and yes he would beat both of them....handily he superior to them in every singe way, they hold no advantages against him oh and he can tank almost anything they can produce.

And elektra is not a street leveler....kroton would be flipping out to here this nonsenses.......it crazy how much you can overrate some characters and then down play other simply amazing.

Originally posted by Q99
"Beats," yes. "Steamrolls," no.

Uh,.. YES...



Originally posted by Q99
She's better but still generally a streetleveler.
Which is why she's beaten people with a scream, deflected bullets with her hand, fought 2000 hand ninja without taking a hit, toys with Wolverine, curbed Paladin (whos enhanced), and beat easily Bullseye dressed as Hawkeye while wounded, poisoned and drugged? Because she's "generally street level?"



Originally posted by Q99
See, this is a good example that counters your argument. His healing factor being compromised wouldn't matter one whit if he steamrolled- he takes major hits often in fights against skilled martial artists.

Taking a hit from a MA and that hit affecting him are two different things, not to mention the fact that Wolverine can and does take hits of his own volition to land counters or even simply because he knows he can.
AND... Wolverine being weakened, or having risidual ghost pains from healing issues wouldn't affect his performance in your opinion?


You DON'T see the difference between a healthy Logan no selling guys like Shang Chi, Daredevil, Solo, Shatterstar, Cap versus having trouble taking Cap when he's bereft of his HF? huh...

Originally posted by Q99
"Beats," yes. "Steamrolls," no.



She's better but still generally a streetleveler.
except she not a street level, she has meta human stats, is a chi amp, telepath ect.........maybe you might wish to read up on her........



Originally posted by Q99
See, this is a good example that counters your argument. His healing factor being compromised wouldn't matter one whit if he steamrolled- he takes major hits often in fights against skilled martial artists.


Hitting him and actaully doing something is no the same thing.

He also wtf pwned several elite level MA's includign DD, shang-chi, stick, uber tier guys like Ogun ect.


Originally posted by Q99
This version hasn't exactly gone against many big-name fighters, and it's mentioned that others have beaten him twice before Logan.
He the same guy there arnt other versions, he the same character if not mistaken


He been between twice before......yea that means he not good right? he only million years old or more he bound to loses at least a few times out of the bilions of fights he been in........but nice try down playing it....notice how you forgot to add that Doc Strange stated that he was likely the most skilled opponent Logan has and will ever fight.

Originally posted by Q99


Sabertooth, Lady Deathstrike, Shingen? Those are all ones that give him very hard fights. Shingen especially is a good example of my point. Logan does not walk over these people easily every time, it's a pretty absurd suggestion to say that he does.


Sabre-tooth is a superhuman who physically superior to wolverine who is also a superhuman..........not even sure why you would think bringing up sabre-tooth would help your agruement.......a sabre-tooth would beat the shit out of arsenal and NW at the same time while toying with them.......

As for deathstrike are you kidding me? she also a superhuman and fast enough to chase down cars.........and wolverine beats her ass in almost every single encounter they ever had even when he has no working healing factor.

Shingen did well against a poisoned wolverine, this same shingen was consider the greatest swordsmen alive at the time, better then even his son silver samuria......wolverine killed him twice.......nice evidences there...........

Originally posted by Battlehammer
wolverine killed him twice.......nice evidences there...........

gotta love comics, only place where you can kill someone twice

true lol and he came back again lol looks like wolverine might kill him a 3rd time

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Sabre-tooth is a superhuman who physically superior to wolverine who is also a superhuman..........not even sure why you would think bringing up sabre-tooth would help your agruement.......a sabre-tooth would beat the shit out of arsenal and NW at the same time while toying with them.......

As for deathstrike are you kidding me? she also a superhuman and fast enough to chase down cars.........and wolverine beats her ass in almost every single encounter they ever had even when he has no working healing factor.

They were brought up by others.




They fought multiple times. Was it ever a walk-over? Or rather, was it a walk over *every times*? Because that's what is required for the argument I've been opposing.

Wolverine killed him, but I would hardly call it a *steamroll*, is the the point.

Remember, I'm saying Wolverine beats top non-super fighters too, I'm just saying it is a real fight.



And DD can fight Elektra on good terms.

Elektra and Wolverine aren't far apart in stat range. What makes Wolverine able to 'stomp' Matt when Elektra doesn't?



Nightwing fights foes just as or more superhuman than Logan on many occasions. What about Wolverine's slight superhuman stats makes him 'steamroll' when they don't? Why can someone who can hold off Slade for a significant amount of time suddenly insta-lose just because Wolverine has a better healing factor?

It's silly.




Quite frankly I call BS.

He has a thing about his targets needing to beat him twice, and those who beat him twice often are stuck in a sort of living death due to not being able to heal the wounds they took in the process, something Logan didn't have to worry about, but they did win.

Wolverine's faces foes of all kinds, many a lot stronger and more fearsome. It's hardly likely he's the most skilled when others are skilled enough to win and he's so quickly beaten upon losing his sword.

Slade usually rage stomps Nightwing. Nightwing has - twice - managed to get the upper hand once while capitalizing on Deathstroke being distracted, and once by getting the drop on him. He keep up his advantaged and managed to keep Deathstroke off balance. He managed to do this primarily because Deathstroke isn't nearly as skilled as he is in h2h. Wolverine doesn't have the same disadvantage. He is more skilled than Dick, and he is more skilled by a significant margin.

This fight would last as long as Wolverine vs. Shatterstar. Three panels. Dick and Roy are no match from Wolverine, alone or together. They literally pose no threat. There won't be a lengthy fight that Wolverine will eventually manage to win. They won't even give Wolverine pause. The fight will only last as long as Wolverine wants it to.

the only reason logan wouldnt steam roll is if both headed different directions and NW was swinging through the air and logan had to catch him and get airborne that is assuming they even manage to out react logan to pull that off and get some masssive distance from logan. i am talking about ten stories at least.

Getting off the skill argument for a bit, what exactly is Wolverine going to do if he's hit by a glue arrow? They're designed to hold people with multi-ton strength comfortably and he can't exactly cut his way through.

The pair do have a lot of gadgets and tricks and I don't see why they wouldn't work.

Originally posted by Q99
Getting off the skill argument for a bit, what exactly is Wolverine going to do if he's hit by a glue arrow? They're designed to hold people with multi-ton strength comfortably and he can't exactly cut his way through.

The pair do have a lot of gadgets and tricks and I don't see why they wouldn't work.
Battlehammer says they won't work, so they won't work. uhuh

not sure which glue arrow you are referring to and what instance he use it on and on who but whatever... i guess if he "can" hit him its possible to incapacitate him... but i dont see why he couldnt eventually break free unless it is all goo with no hardness whatsoever.

also what are arsenals modern weapons now? last i saw him in was in the superman robot fight death of donna

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
not sure which glue arrow you are referring to and what instance he use it on and on who but whatever... i guess if he "can" hit him its possible to incapacitate him... but i dont see why he couldnt eventually break free unless it is all goo with no hardness whatsoever.

'Eventually' sure, but a trapped Wolverine is a lot more vulnerable to follow up attacks.



Right now he's been relying on bow a lot, even calling himself Red Arrow.

(Well, *right* now he's down an arm so not using a lot, but before that).

what happens when logan catches the arrow and throws it back or arsenal completely misses due to his enhanced speed and reaction time?

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
what happens when logan catches the arrow and throws it back or arsenal completely misses due to his enhanced speed and reaction time?

Arsenal dodges it or shoots it down, Arsenal shoots more arrows. He could also open with a sonic arrow or explosive arrow to disorient Wolvie (which doesn't need a hit) before going to glue.

With a bow, he's about Bullseye level in aim.

logan isnt DD where high sonics will keep him from fighting he isnt a p%#$y... he will grind his teeth and tank it same for explosion arrows.. none of those will slow him down enough time to give arsenal an opening. the only way arsenal manages to incapacitate logan is he tanks the glue arrow which i will give you happening 3 out of ten times but unless it is a time out win logan can and will escape they are not ko'ing him.

The team wins if they can keep their distance and not die within the first 10 seconds

Hrm..

Well, Beyonders reality manipulation abilities were unmatched, but he was also caught off guard by Phoenix when she gave him all these mortal experiences/emotions.. If she can even catch him off guard with something he's not prepared to experience, maybe there's ways to defeat Beyonder and cut him off from being able to perform reality menipulation, or somehow render him unable to use his powers..

The reason I went with the Astral battle, is because that's how Osborn defeated Nate Grey, who may not be even close to the power of Beyonder but is still way, way above someone like him..

In general with comics, there's usually ways around power disadvantages. Take the battle to a plane where a cosmic isn't as cosmic, or cut them with the bone of an old god and bind them (Like happened to a 5d imp), or drain off their powers using exotic items and prep.. (Like Lucifer did with two beings with The Presences powers)

Thanos shouldn't have had a snowballs chance in hell against Cosmos, except that she decided to inhabit a mortal form, and he took advantage of that. So maybe trick Pre Retcon Beyonder into doing the same, and render his body comatose?

But for the sake of argument, how could you see Pre Retcon Beyonder being defeated? With infinite prep, items, deus ex mechanicas.. Anything.

Que?

Originally posted by illadelph12
Que?
I think CDTM is calling you a homo. mhmm

Subtext and all that.

While yes, Logan would win in h2h, the problem for him is that Roy can, imo, expose Logan's biggest weakness: His lack of range. With his trick arrows (which have been impressive in the past), i can see him hurting Logan. Not sure who'll take the majority, but i think the team is definitely going to take a few wins.

Originally posted by iceman24567
The team wins if they can keep their distance and not die within the first 10 seconds

cosigned.

Here the thing, what are we assuming are Arsenal standard arrows? It not like he consistently is portrayed with arrows or any items for that matter which would be able to take Wolverine out. I think people are assuming he has arrows that are not part of his standard gear. Also Nightwing though has equipment none of which standard items would do anything to Wolverine, but annoy him. He also tends far less it seems then Batman or Tim to uses his equipment, but rather uses his acrobatics, agility, fighting skill, and cali sticks to fight. What also worse for this to is the city land scape favors, Wolverine who is by far the most stealthy, best tracker, only one who posses superhuman senses, which mean he know were they are easily while they won't know were he is. Also though Nightwing has given it to, Death stroke he shown his lack of durability hurts him in such encounters getting taken by very few hits. Now imagine now he fighting individual who physically Death stroke equally except superior stamina, strength and durability (though depends on Death Stroke armor). He also posses vastly great damage soak. Now if Nightwing has enough trouble simply hanging with Deathstroke now he facing individual who death stroke plus, and posses weapons capable of cutting through anything pretty much. The idea that these two can not only land the range items, but ones that are powerful enough and countless of them before Logan gets to them is a stretch to say the least.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I think CDTM is calling you a homo. mhmm

Subtext and all that.

Originally posted by Q99
Arsenal dodges it or shoots it down, Arsenal shoots more arrows. He could also open with a sonic arrow or explosive arrow to disorient Wolvie (which doesn't need a hit) before going to glue.

With a bow, he's about Bullseye level in aim.
Again assuming sonic arrow or explosive arrows are standard equipment. As for sonic arrow, you assume they do anything but annoy him because? Not to mention won't Arsenal and Nightwing have to waste time putting in ear plugs to protect them selfs? Wolverine has repeatedly shown that sonic attacks like thunder claps are simple not effective any more or even back in the day the majority of the time. He also fought a creature who power was super powerful sonic attacks and was superhuman werewolf creature with superhuman speed and wolverine was still quite able to react to the creature and healing from the damage as it was happen pretty much. That creature sonic blasts were far stronger then any sonic arrow. It a stretch that he even have sonic arrows on him and even more so that they work.

Explosive arrows are gunna distract a person who walks through explosions, fights while on firer, fights when his arm is burnt to the bone, fights after crashing into the ground in the x-men black bird......but some how explosive arrows are gunna distract him? Are you kidding me? Not only is it a stretch he even have them, but to assume they do anything to Wolverine or distract him is ridiculous stretch.

I highly doubt that.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Here the thing, what are we assuming are Arsenal standard arrows? It not like he consistently is portrayed with arrows or any items for that matter which would be able to take Wolverine out. I think people are assuming he has arrows that are not part of his standard gear. Also Nightwing though has equipment none of which standard items would do anything to Wolverine, but annoy him. He also tends far less it seems then Batman or Tim to uses his equipment, but rather uses his acrobatics, agility, fighting skill, and cali sticks to fight. What also worse for this to is the city land scape favors, Wolverine who is by far the most stealthy, best tracker, only one who posses superhuman senses, which mean he know were they are easily while they won't know were he is. Also though Nightwing has given it to, Death stroke he shown his lack of durability hurts him in such encounters getting taken by very few hits. Now imagine now he fighting individual who physically Death stroke equally except superior stamina, strength and durability (though depends on Death Stroke armor). He also posses vastly great damage soak. Now if Nightwing has enough trouble simply hanging with Deathstroke now he facing individual who death stroke plus, and posses weapons capable of cutting through anything pretty much. The idea that these two can not only land the range items, but ones that are powerful enough and countless of them before Logan gets to them is a stretch to say the least.

any trick arrow he's used in the past/pulled from his quiver can be considered standard equipment.

Originally posted by -Pr-
any trick arrow he's used in the past/pulled from his quiver can be considered standard equipment.
what? thats absurd. That like saying anything that Batman used can be pulled out his but in any forum match? There no way that can be right, that goes against the very rules of standard equipment. It is item that are consistently used. Not simply some item he had at some time.

By such logic Logan stand equipment is a sword, magical one to boot, because he certain used it more then I bet Arsenal has used of a number of his trick arrows.

further examples of how that can't be right is Deadpool if we went by such lines of reasoning, he has item ranging from teleporting ring, spray that turn people in midgets I believe it was, bazooka , countless types of guns and explosives, tranq's that have enough sleeping sedatives to put down two T Rexes (if not mistaken)

Punisher has saintin claw, venom suit, ant mans helment whip lashes thing, pumpkin bombs ect.

Oh and Clint Barton runs around with a nuke arrow (believe that was it was), arrows designed to pierce gods ect.


This makes little senses, either your saying all these's characters plus vastly other get any item they have used as standard equipment your holding different standards which be more or less picking an choosing (though I doubt you did it on purposes)

surprisingly, battlehammer actually makes a good point here!

@battlehammer

get um..

XRjxu1knNFM

anyways deadpool's standard gear without being ridicules and going by the same premise as PR has set up should always be using his technological bio tech sword instead of all his crappy swords he has bn showing in the last half decade..

Deadpool's bio tech sword is actually part of marvel's official marvel bio of the character as part of his equipment.

these swords sure as hell wouldnt be shattering and breaking every ten minutes like his other swords are constantly shown doing they be cutting deep into hercules and the comic fight with them wouldnt have ended with him and herc drinking but herc would have actually died without DP's swords shattering.

Wolverine is not going to stomp them even if he wins.

Originally posted by jocuri
Wolverine is not going to stomp them even if he wins.
He will win, but it not that we don't think they will get licks in because they will, but it won't matter because of his damage soak. He faster, stronger, better reflexes, agility (debatable to some extent I guess), stamina, durability, fighting skills, experiences, weapons capable of ending this in a hit, oh and has the ability to withstand more damage then both can times 100 and thats low balling it.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
what? thats absurd. That like saying anything that Batman used can be pulled out his but in any forum match? There no way that can be right, that goes against the very rules of standard equipment. It is item that are consistently used. Not simply some item he had at some time.

By such logic Logan stand equipment is a sword, magical one to boot, because he certain used it more then I bet Arsenal has used of a number of his trick arrows.

further examples of how that can't be right is Deadpool if we went by such lines of reasoning, he has item ranging from teleporting ring, spray that turn people in midgets I believe it was, bazooka , countless types of guns and explosives, tranq's that have enough sleeping sedatives to put down two T Rexes (if not mistaken)

Punisher has saintin claw, venom suit, ant mans helment whip lashes thing, pumpkin bombs ect.

Oh and Clint Barton runs around with a nuke arrow (believe that was it was), arrows designed to pierce gods ect.


This makes little senses, either your saying all these's characters plus vastly other get any item they have used as standard equipment your holding different standards which be more or less picking an choosing (though I doubt you did it on purposes)

that isn't what i said. at all.

Originally posted by -Pr-
that isn't what i said. at all.
that is exactly what you said.

Originally posted by -Pr-
any trick arrow he's used in the past/pulled from his quiver can be considered standard equipment.


Your saying any item he pretty much used is standard, despite the fact he may only used it ones years ago. Standard equipment is what is consistently used by the characters.

Thoses examples I posted are the same thing as your quote except it being applied to everyone.


I dont think you ment to, but either standard equipment what they consistently uses, or it any item they ever uses. It can switch from character to character. It a double standard that way, which I dont think you ment to do, but that pretty much how it came out.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
that is exactly what you said.




Your saying any item he pretty much used is standard, despite the fact he may only used it ones years ago. Standard equipment is what is consistently used by the characters.

Thoses examples I posted are the same thing as your quote except it being applied to everyone.


I dont think you ment to, but either standard equipment what they consistently uses, or it any item they ever uses. It can switch from character to character. It a double standard that way, which I dont think you ment to do, but that pretty much how it came out.

you're missing the point. and no, you used unfair and inaccurate comparisons.

they use trick arrows as standard. so at the very least, they get c4 arrows, gas arrows, ice arrows etc, because those are pretty standard for any of the arrow family.

if i turned around and said they used their phantom zone arrow on him, that would be unfair.

my statement said that you COULD consider it standard equipment. not that you had to.

and btw? most of what batman uses in non-prep situations that he pulls from his belt is considered standard equipment. he's frickin batman.

anti bat-woman spray ftw.