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I am not sure if here or the OTF is the best place for this....

Math

I was never great at it, but it all depended on what teacher I had.

I ranged from getting A's in classes to flat out failing.

Some teachers were cool, and were very helpful teaching you the best way to understand, and then there was always the 'I'm gonna make this class a living hell' teacher

Anything history related.

During my middle school years(9-12ish years old) I, well all of us, dreaded French, all because of the teacher. Everyone was scared of her, even the really REALLY naughty boys in the school. I like French though.

As for lessons, psychologically I dreaded Drama all through my school life, but thankfully in High school it was only about 6 actual lessons because after the first year of high school it is no longer compulsory since it becomes a GCSE choice.

That's the only class that worried me.

Others were just boredom, Maths and Physics(unless we were doing things concerning Astronomy).

Everything else I enjoyed for the most part and had nice teachers.

I quite enjoyed anything math related.

Maths and Physics, with me being hopeless at both.

I dreaded physics more though because I could at least get by in maths whereas in physics I was lost (it also didn't help that they bumped me up into the top science group by virtue of how assured I was in Biology and Chemistry) .

My maths has improved since I got a better qualification in it but certain things still trouble me.

Oh Geography got rather boring in my last year of high school, it was fine up until halfway through year 10 and 11, teacher changed(first wonderful one left the school, then we had another for a few months but apparently was fired when found out he smoked cannabis outside of school) from a really good one to a horrible woman who couldn't handle the class and it turned from interesting work to what seemed like just geology type work. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. So Geography was a negative from then on.

science. so00o0o0o boring. it didnt help that we mostly discussed the really really boring stuff like "earth" science. yuck.

i wish i had put more effort into those classes now though, since they were free compared to now.

Chemistry and Trig

I don't know about you guys, but I wasn't forced to take any classes I didn't like after grade 9/10...

before that, I'd say gym?

Geometry

Phucking proofs

What age is grade 9/10 in Canada?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Anything history related. agree

Originally posted by MildPossession
What age is grade 9/10 in Canada?

12-14.. ish?

ya, i just turned 13 in grade 9

EDIT: i guess I still HAD to take an english course every year, but we had good english teachers... There might have been a grade 11 math in there too...

As a rule, through the years, I did not like social studies. But high school chemistry I found particularly...tedious and disconnected from.

Statistics! Holy **** is that some boring shit.

I didn't particularly care for Chemistry. I expected it to be cool like on tv.

Language arts/English comp/etc. I'm not sure if this qualifies, as I actually loved the subject. I hated that we had like...nonstop oral presentations. I've largely overcome my fear of public speaking now, but I nearly had a heart attack before all my presentations then. It seems unreasonable looking back on it though. My classmates were the same people I interacted with daily, but speaking in front of them was like hell.

Everyone was looking at me and it was so quiet apart from my own voice. I couldn't deal with it. I even deliberately got a zero on one of the presentations to avoid the anxiety. My parents were so pissed when they found out.

Chemistry, Trig, and Geometry.

Also, depending on the teacher, English. Some of the teachers at my high school were awesome, and some were just...really boring, and all we did was read tedious and boring books.

I also detested my German class, thanks mostly to my boring and completely oblivious teacher, but I stuck it out for four years anyway.

Hmm this is hard because I failed my Freshman, and Sophmore years of high school, getting nearly straight Fs with one A in English each year. I had straight As my Junior year and then failed most of my senior year again.

I hated just about every subject and every teacher, but the worst was Math, which I never actually passed. I never got past 9th Grade Algebra.

I hate math, any math of any kind.

Math and Physics. I can do well in those classes, but it's hard.

BASIC II the second semester of 10th grade was just horrible. I had fun in BASIC I so decided to take the second term of the class, and it was not only boring but so much more advanced than the first term that it ended up occupying a lot of my time. Yeah.

I loved English at school but dreaded the times a presentation came up, thankfully it was not a lot. I was, well still, the same as you. I didn't have a problem with anyone in the class either. I remember when the oral presentation for the exam came up and I couldn't stop shaking and so on, horrible horrible. Got a B+ for the presentation, so was not all bad considering. How I felt when it was over was just bliss lol.




We had to do most of the main subjects(English, all Science, Maths) until school finished at 16(GCSE exams) with the other choices we decided to continue with - Geography or History for example. I decided on Geography, wish I did History lol.

Originally posted by Enyalus
BASIC II the second semester of 10th grade was just horrible. I had fun in BASIC I so decided to take the second term of the class, and it was not only boring but so much more advanced than the first term that it ended up occupying a lot of my time. Yeah. Oh, that reminds me.

I hated Java programing too.

More proof you can't possibly be black.

History. All of my history teachers were fossils who merely regurgitated text book jargon. Also, I already knew more history than I was to be taught.

I also dreaded algebra because I suck at math. That, and algebra is the highest level of math I studied in high school.

My Algebra II teacher used to be a programmer for NASA, and I remember him trying to teach the class matrixes and vertices in terms of binary numbers. No one got the shit he was explaining. It was so stupid.

I pretty much liked all subjects because I liked learning. From literature, to history, to calculus. I liked it all.

Originally posted by Enyalus
More proof you can't possibly be black. Black people like programming?

Originally posted by dadudemon
I pretty much liked all subjects because I liked learning. From literature, to history, to calculus. I liked it all. Well aren't you the cat's meow.

Originally posted by Mindset
Black people like programming?
Of course they do.

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Computer_Science_III

Originally posted by OB1-adobe
Math

I was never great at it, but it all depended on what teacher I had.

I ranged from getting A's in classes to flat out failing.

Some teachers were cool, and were very helpful teaching you the best way to understand, and then there was always the 'I'm gonna make this class a living hell' teacher

I was exactly the same.....in fact because of the crappy school i went to most of the teachers would let you pass if they liked you......but math still sucked because if i had questions or needed help and asked the teacher took me for not paying attention........once i got so fed up i was standing at my teachers desk and i shouted F**K YOU at my teacher then threw my pass book across the room and just left the room.

math i hated math in high school.. only did algebra then after that took some basic college math which sucked b/c i had to relearn everything i didnt want to learn in the 1st place and then some.. like geometry/ trigonometry, geology and chemistry... felt like a retard still do since i only learned it enough to pass test and exams and then throw it right out the window..

had the company i worked for higher student aids to teach me and my crew.. which was weird b/c we were all dumb as dirt but some how we seem to be collectively smarter then the students in class since we held the curve for our test.. must be real world applications and not just pencil and paper scribbling knowledge..

Originally posted by Mindset
Black people like programming?
No, that's just it. I thought programming was like ice skating to black people. I've never seen a black programmer before....except...

Shit. I know who you are now.

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/6540/tankzg3.jpg

mouse!!

http://movies.infinitecoolness.com/01/hackers04.jpg

http://blogs.knoxnews.com/brown/archives/CornelWestblackboard.jpg

Originally posted by King Kandy
Of course they do.

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Computer_Science_III

i died a little from reading that

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
i died a little from reading that
Poke around the other articles on there. You know you want to.

Probably Latin. Though I mostly just dreaded whichever subject I had to do homework in and inevitable hadn't done it.

All through high school we had a woman in her late 20s for History. I think I was blessed with teachers for the majority of my school life, the French one I mentioned is the only one really that I dreaded.

It's college that was quite rubbish for teachers, we had two teachers for one course and one of them was terrible, and we were all sure HE wore thongs. Anyway, any of us could have taught the class better than him.

Originally posted by Mindset
Well aren't you the cat's meow.

I thought the term was "nerd"?

Originally posted by dadudemon
I thought the term was "nerd"?

Nah, it's "cat's meow", I'm pretty sure.

Chem. Teacher had the look and voice of Krillen. Hated that class.

Economics. Teacher got caught looking at porn a week in. Had to have a sub the whole time. Passed but what did i learn? I learned that we work well in groups. Big groups. And how to sell weed.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Nah, it's "cat's meow", I'm pretty sure.

Nah. It's called "nerd." Some people like learning.






Also, my favoriate subject was PE! I loved playing dogeball. Twas the best.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Nah. It's called "nerd." Some people like learning.






Also, my favoriate subject was PE! I loved playing dogeball. Twas the best.

MEOOOOOW uhuh

http://media.canada.com/07594e89-b6a2-4c43-823c-507cf9085fdd/0507-hired-mouse.jpg

none, i think, maybe general studies.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I loved playing dogeball. Twas the best. Dodging incoming; catching and returning fire. Indeed it was.

I have both a math and physics test today... Yay.

Day Care through College.....History.

Originally posted by The Nuul
I am not sure if here or the OTF is the best place for this....
Any sort of math.
I was really, really, really bad at math. Words cannot express how bad at any math I was. Me failing multiple math classes can prove that. I just never understood it, still don't and never will.

You guys are breaking my heart with how many of you hated history.

Algebra and pretty much anything Math related. Honestly. Who uses Algebra?

Actually, History and Science were my favorite subjects in school. It was Math that I detested with a passion.

Originally posted by tom_servo
Algebra and pretty much anything Math related. Honestly. Who uses Algebra?

Everyone uses algebra, it's the foundation of problem solving. When you get beyond that, though, math becomes useless in everyday life.

i think the everyone uses algebra everyday is really over used and blown out of proportion...

i mean cro magnan and ancient man used it as well but we dont say it is was a big part of their lifes.. and sh#@..

last i checked i dont run around seeing the world in numbers like in the matrix...

if i use math it is on a subconscious lvl and purely instinctual and guess work from past experience... like what is the tax going to be on my shopping list and make sure i have enough.. like having a 100 bucks for something that cost 20 bucks not much math..

or leaving the house at a certain time b/c i need to be somewhere else at a certain time.. i find the right time of leaving by already knowing the route and how long it has taken in the past to get around a particular area.

might else say cavemen use math as much as we do in every day math when bartering for furs with meat and shiny rocks

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Everyone uses algebra, it's the foundation of problem solving. When you get beyond that, though, math becomes useless in everyday life. I use trigonometry all the time.

I struggled with math and it wasn't til I had summer school a year ago I realized I had dyscalculia.

Originally posted by Esomark
I struggled with math and it wasn't til I had summer school a year ago I realized I had dyscalculia.


Cool! Do you have any other super powers?

i cant believe that it is even real...facepalm

we just keep finding new excuses.. not that i dont believe you had a harder time learning math then others just that some one would make it an actual learning disability and name it..

i mean back in the day you either had a very crappy teacher, lazy or lacked the comprehension skills to understand the wording and methods being used b/c you had nothing to help you base what they are saying..

its like having someone teach you math in russian while you only speak english its just gibberish.

you fix it by actually sitting down and having some one actually explain the concept and explain it in words you understand and know not some college math jargon that you never heard and dont have a math definition cheat sheet with the definition of the math word and symbol

thats why i was able to learn more and understand faster in study groups or the person next to me then the teacher in front of the class.. they would use words i understood and dumb it down for me.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
i mean back in the day

Yeah, we never had any incorrect beliefs in the past.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
its like having someone teach you math in russian while you only speak english its just gibberish.

you fix it by actually sitting down and having some one actually explain the concept and explain it in words you understand and know not some college math jargon that you never heard and dont have a math definition cheat sheet with the definition of the math word and symbol

When you can fix it that way it isn't dyscalculia.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
its like having someone teach you math in russian while you only speak english its just gibberish.

you fix it by actually sitting down and having some one actually explain the concept and explain it in words you understand and know not some college math jargon that you never heard and dont have a math definition cheat sheet with the definition of the math word and symbol

thats why i was able to learn more and understand faster in study groups or the person next to me then the teacher in front of the class.. they would use words i understood and dumb it down for me.

omg, stop the internetz!!!!

someone call science!!!!

learning disabilities = solved

EDIT: and surprise!!! its the victim's fault for not trying hard enough!

I just stopped the intenetz. inimalist, this had better be good or lots of fappers are going to be angry!

dude, learning disabilities = cured

just try harder and have people explain it to you in dumb terms, the internet needs to know

I need the president of science on the phone!

I've contacted the President of Science. He has a plane ready.

get that shit in the air

Originally posted by inimalist
I need the president of science on the phone!

crylaugh




Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I've contacted the President of Science. He has a brane ready.



See what I did there (think astrophysics)? 313

Originally posted by dadudemon
crylaugh

lol, and not to just make silly posts or anything

It just sort of bothers me when people are like "look, there couldn't possibly be something called X, because I don't have that problem. I mean look at how hard X is for me, they just aren't trying hard enough/the right thing"

as if that wasn't the first thing the scientists working on the problem thought. As if "try harder" were some secret new knowledge that only such radical gurus as one finds on the internet might have access to

Originally posted by inimalist
lol, and not to just make silly posts or anything

It just sort of bothers me when people are like "look, there couldn't possibly be something called X, because I don't have that problem. I mean look at how hard X is for me, they just aren't trying hard enough/the right thing"

as if that wasn't the first thing the scientists working on the problem thought. As if "try harder" were some secret new knowledge that only such radical gurus as one finds on the internet might have access to

Oh yes, I could definitely tell where you were coming from with your jokes.


I don't think WS meant to imply that he had solved the LD problems, though: I think his post was more of a rant about why some people have problems learning: teachers don't stop to one on one with a problem student, in public schools, usually.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Oh yes, I could definitely tell where you were coming from with your jokes.


I don't think WS meant to imply that he had solved the LD problems, though: I think his post was more of a rant about why some people have problems learning: teachers don't stop to one on one with a problem student, in public schools, usually.

no, I did take some liberties with it, for sure

but it is more the dismissing the issue as "not a real problem" rather than accepting that people have different issues, some being actual LDs.

Like, his response to someone even saying they had an LD was to say "I can't believe they have a name for it. I had trouble, this is how I got better". Basically, it is saying that the LD is the fault of the school, but ultimatly of the student for not getting the school to do what it wants.

Whether more one-to-one would help some LD or non-LD students, what can be done in the class, sure, totally valid issues. It is not helped by people thinking there is some scientific conspiracy to name things that afflict people yet really don't exist.

Originally posted by inimalist
no, I did take some liberties with it, for sure

but it is more the dismissing the issue as "not a real problem" rather than accepting that people have different issues, some being actual LDs.

Like, his response to someone even saying they had an LD was to say "I can't believe they have a name for it. I had trouble, this is how I got better". Basically, it is saying that the LD is the fault of the school, but ultimatly of the student for not getting the school to do what it wants.

Whether more one-to-one would help some LD or non-LD students, what can be done in the class, sure, totally valid issues. It is not helped by people thinking there is some scientific conspiracy to name things that afflict people yet really don't exist.

I take comments like his for a grain of salt: most people aren't aware there are multiple kinds of dyslexia and ADD.

However, I can see why you would be slightly face-palming at his comments due to your professional interests in psychology.

I think ADD is complete bullshit and an excuse for modern parents who refuse to watch or take responsibility for their children as to why they do poorly in school and seem unable to focus.

Bottom line: take off your belt, bend them over your knee, and whip their little asses until they sit still and pay attention. Have the patience to instill a little discipline in them and see how that works before you take them to a doctor who prescribes all kinds of drugs under the sun that runs the risk of your kid ending up so depressed he/she kills themselves.

ADD is bad parenting. That problem is solved. When doctors can't come up with an actual diagnosis and psychologists still argue over the validity of it, something's wrong.

Yeah, I think Cancer is bullshit. It's what scientists and doctors say when they can't explain why God took someone's life.

DOODS!!! We can solve everything this way.

Broken leg? Laziness, back in the day all we got for that was a punch in the face.
STDs? Total myth, after all back in the day we didn't have TV shows talking about STDs all the time. QED

The list of observed symptoms of ADHD can all be explained via 'laziness' and 'having other shit on your mind.' Honestly, how many times did all you sit in school (elementary and such) and daydream? It's pretty common.

But now, no. **** it. You've got a disease.

I just hated math. I moved quite a bit and never did grasp it all. Heck when you move 13 times by the time you're 11...well?

wow...well what i dreaded about school was doing stupid math homework that was so hard and i had to use B.O.B. for the answers, but couldn't show the work.

Boo math teachers that give easy examples in class and then give hard homework problems, and taunt us by picking the ones whos answers BOB knew but i didn't know how to proove...

Originally posted by Deja~vu
I just hated math. I moved quite a bit and never did grasp it all. Heck when you move 13 times by the time you're 11...well?
I had the same problem. In third grade at Detroit Public schools we were doing multiplication and such, and seemed to have a thorough grasp on it. Then I moved up north to the upper peninsula for fourth grade and the schools there were teaching addition and subtraction of three-digit numbers. What a huge step backwards. I was so bored I stopped paying attention in class. Then second half of fourth grade and fifth grade we moved to Florida, and they were starting on division. Because I didn't remember half of my multiplication stuff, I should have been pretty screwed. But hey, public schooling is usually pretty bad, and they didn't notice.

I really never got a full grasp of long division, which killed me later on in college doing long division of polynomials and shit in calculus.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, I think Cancer is bullshit. It's what scientists and doctors say when they can't explain why God took someone's life.



you no what i agree to that.

so cancer is a made up explanation? lets tell the world

Originally posted by Enyalus
I think ADD is complete bullshit and an excuse for modern parents who refuse to watch or take responsibility for their children as to why they do poorly in school and seem unable to focus.

Bottom line: take off your belt, bend them over your knee, and whip their little asses until they sit still and pay attention. Have the patience to instill a little discipline in them and see how that works before you take them to a doctor who prescribes all kinds of drugs under the sun that runs the risk of your kid ending up so depressed he/she kills themselves.



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19476419

Attention-deficit-hyperactivity disorder: an update

Dopheide JA, Pliszka SR

Pharmacotherapy. 2009 Jun;29(6):656-79.

Abstract
Attention-deficit-hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is a common neuropsychiatric disorder that impairs social, academic, and occupational functioning in children, adolescents, and adults. In patients with ADHD, neurobiologic research has shown a lack of connectivity in key brain regions, inhibitory control deficits, delayed brain maturation, and noradrenergic and dopaminergic dysfunction in multiple brain regions. The prevalence of this disorder in the United States is 6-9% in youth (i.e., children and adolescents) and 3-5% in adults. Prevalence rates for youth are similar worldwide. Children with ADHD are at greater risk than children without ADHD for substance abuse and delinquency whether or not they receive drug therapy; however, early treatment with psychoeducation as well as drug therapy and/or behavioral intervention may decrease negative outcomes of ADHD, including the rate of conduct disorder and adult antisocial personality disorder. Drug therapy is effective for all age groups, even preschoolers, and for late-onset ADHD in adults. Stimulants, such as methylphenidate and amphetamine, are the most effective therapy and have a good safety profile; although recent concerns of sudden unexplained death, psychiatric adverse effects, and growth effects have prompted the introduction of other therapies. Atomoxetine, a nonstimulant, has no abuse potential, causes less insomnia than stimulants, and poses minimal risk of growth effects. Other drug options include clonidine and guanfacine, but both can cause bradycardia and sedation. Polyunsaturated fatty acids (fish oil), acetyl-L-carnitine, and iron supplements (for youth with low ferritin levels) show promise in improving ADHD symptoms. As long-term studies show that at least 50% of youth are nonadherent with their drug therapy as prescribed over a 1-year period, long-acting formulations (administered once/day) may improve adherence. Comorbid conditions are common in patients with ADHD, but this patient population can be treated effectively with individualized treatment regimens of stimulants, atomoxetine, or bupropion, along with close monitoring.

Originally posted by Enyalus
ADD is bad parenting. That problem is solved. When doctors can't come up with an actual diagnosis and psychologists still argue over the validity of it, something's wrong.

which psychologists?

Originally posted by Enyalus
The list of observed symptoms of ADHD can all be explained via 'laziness' and 'having other shit on your mind.' Honestly, how many times did all you sit in school (elementary and such) and daydream? It's pretty common.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17581453

Practice parameter for the assessment and treatment of children and adolescents with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder

Pliszka S

Journal of the American Academy of Child Adolescent Psychiatry 2007 Jul;46(7):894-921

Abstract
This practice parameter describes the assessment and treatment of children and adolescents with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) based on the current scientific evidence and clinical consensus of experts in the field. This parameter discusses the clinical evaluation for ADHD, comorbid conditions associated with ADHD, research on the etiology of the disorder, and psychopharmacological and psychosocial interventions for ADHD.


------------------------------


The full article is available here: http://www.aacap.org/galleries/PracticeParameters/New_ADHD_parameter.pdf


Please go throught this and explain in a coherent way how you think diagnostic criteria are akin to "daydreaming"


Originally posted by Enyalus
But now, no. **** it. You've got a disease.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20438138

Are there shared environmental influences on attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder? Reply to Wood, Buitelaar, Rijsdijk, Asherson, and Kunsti (2010).

Burt SA.

Psychological Bulletin 2010 May;136(3):341-3.

Abstract
A recent large-scale meta-analysis of twin and adoption studies indicated that shared environmental influences make important contributions to most forms of child and adolescent psychopathology (Burt, 2009b). The sole exception to this robust pattern of results was observed for attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), which appeared to be largely genetic (and particularly nonadditive genetic) in origin, with no observable influence of the shared environment. The central thesis of Wood, Buitelaar, Rijsdijk, Asherson, and Kunsti (2010) is that, contrary to these findings, shared environmental influences are important for ADHD. As evidence for this thesis, Wood et al. presented a summary of prior twin studies, followed by a discussion of 4 methodological issues that may account for my findings in Burt (2009b). I argue that, although the methodological concerns raised by Wood et al. are very important, they do not undermine my earlier results (Burt, 2009b). I close with a discussion of 2 issues that may allow for some shared environmental influences on ADHD.

Originally posted by inimalist
The full article is available here: http://www.aacap.org/galleries/PracticeParameters/New_ADHD_parameter.pdf


Please go throught this and explain in a coherent way how you think diagnostic criteria are akin to "daydreaming"
Appreciate your links. I flipped through that pdf file and admit to not understanding all of it. My degrees are in history, not medicine. Nevertheless, a few things I wanted to ask/point out:

Going from some of those numbers, they basically find that about 10% of children are diagnosed with ADHD. I think they listed the average 'lifetime childhood diagnosis of ADHD' as 7.8%, but in a lot of the studies they cited it was about 10%.

They go on to say that ADHD is primarily a genetic disorder. My first response to that is, really? Are you, inimalist, as an obviously well educated individual, going to tell me that 10% of the population of our children are genetically deficient? That's not only a huge number, it strains credulity. In an attempt to cover their bases (I guess?) they acknowledge that there are other causes of ADHD aside from genetic, which include neurobiological. This, to me, is the only thing that makes sense - if you're dealing with a mental/cognitive issue like ADHD, of course it's neurological in nature.

They then go on to say that children with ADHD show some minor problems with their cognitive processes (Let's be honest, the medical jargon of "neurocognitive processes that maintain an appropriate problem solving set to attain a future goal" is basically what I've just said - a minor problem in their cognitive ability). Nevertheless, the article admits that not all children who're diagnosed with ADHD have this issue at all...this begs the question, why were they diagnosed with ADHD when they do not display the main...problem....that having ADHD manifests?

Two real problems I had with the article were that it kept talking about the 'nine symptoms' of ADHD, but I could not find where it listed them. I'm positive I didn't miss them. It must be in another article.

Second is just something I had to point out, that I found funny for some reason. "The prevalence of mood disorders in patients with ADHD is more controversial, with studies showing from 0 to 33% of patients with ADHD meeting criteria for a depressive disorder."

0 to 33 percent? Seriously? That's a pretty big net. And it's not the only thing like that in there. There's a 4 to 30% deal on page 13, too.




My sister was diagnosed with having ADHD (in addition to dyslexia, which I'm not disputing.) Yes, she struggles in math and language arts/English. My opinion on the English thing though, is that she struggles because she doesn't like it. It's not fun for her. So she doesn't try. Not because she has ADHD and can't concentrate. She won't concentrate. I say this convincingly because although she uses her diagnosis with ADHD as an excuse for why she can't focus on her school work, I've seen her do things like sit in my floor for four hours straight playing Grand Theft Auto. I am betting that anyone who has been diagnosed with ADHD here, or who knows someone who has been diagnosed with it, has similar stories. If they aren't interested, they can't pay attention. But damn, if its entertaining and fun, they can do it all day just like any other normal kid. To me, that's a discipline problem. Not a medical one.

I mean, they're having middle school counselors diagnose these children with this supposed disease. If it's a valid disease and genetic and neurological in nature, why not have it be diagnosed with a CAT scan or MRI or such? But afterall, from your own article, "neuroimaging is a valuable research tool in the study of ADHD, but currently it is not useful for making a diagnosis of ADHD in a clinical practice or in predicting treatment response." Why is that?

Originally posted by The Nuul
I am not sure if here or the OTF is the best place for this....

High school? Physical Education.

Originally posted by Enyalus
genetically deficient

No such thing, unless someone actually removed part of your genome.

Originally posted by Enyalus
My sister was diagnosed with having ADHD (in addition to dyslexia, which I'm not disputing.) Yes, she struggles in math and language arts/English. My opinion on the English thing though, is that she struggles because she doesn't like it. It's not fun for her. So she doesn't try. Not because she has ADHD and can't concentrate. She won't concentrate. I say this convincingly because although she uses her diagnosis with ADHD as an excuse for why she can't focus on her school work, I've seen her do things like sit in my floor for four hours straight playing Grand Theft Auto. I am betting that anyone who has been diagnosed with ADHD here, or who knows someone who has been diagnosed with it, has similar stories. If they aren't interested, they can't pay attention. But damn, if its entertaining and fun, they can do it all day just like any other normal kid. To me, that's a discipline problem. Not a medical one.

Do you really consider your sister to be a statistically meaningful sample size?

Originally posted by Enyalus
But afterall, from your own article, "neuroimaging is a valuable research tool in the study of ADHD, but currently it is not useful for making a diagnosis of ADHD in a clinical practice or in predicting treatment response." Why is that?

Because people aren't going to blow $1000 on every diagnosis. If you can build a cheap easy to use fMRI machine I'm certain that the medical and psychological communities would build a statue for you.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Going from some of those numbers, they basically find that about 10% of children are diagnosed with ADHD. I think they listed the average 'lifetime childhood diagnosis of ADHD' as 7.8%, but in a lot of the studies they cited it was about 10%.

They go on to say that ADHD is primarily a genetic disorder. My first response to that is, really? Are you, inimalist, as an obviously well educated individual, going to tell me that 10% of the population of our children are genetically deficient? That's not only a huge number, it strains credulity.

nobody would call adhd a genetic deficency

I have type 1 diabetes, do you consider me a genetic defect? My disorder is far more complicating to one's life than adhd is....

Originally posted by Enyalus
In an attempt to cover their bases (I guess?) they acknowledge that there are other causes of ADHD aside from genetic, which include neurobiological. This, to me, is the only thing that makes sense - if you're dealing with a mental/cognitive issue like ADHD, of course it's neurological in nature.

yes, and neurobiology is hugely influenced by genetics. It is also influenced by environment, however, as the twin studies above indicate, similar environments seems to play no role at all in whether twins boths get adhd.

Now, you say that is what you would expect with cognitive issues, and you would be correct. The back and forth (which the Burt article I linked is the last of) was about a study that showed adhd was the only one of many psychiatric issues for which environment was not a contributing factor for. So, for depression, you are correct, environment is huge, but not in the case of adhd.

And while this one article does say that there are other causes, taken with much of the other literature on the matter, it seems that genetics are the most, and possibly the only, significant factor.

Originally posted by Enyalus
They then go on to say that children with ADHD show some minor problems with their cognitive processes (Let's be honest, the medical jargon of "neurocognitive processes that maintain an appropriate problem solving set to attain a future goal" is basically what I've just said - a minor problem in their cognitive ability). Nevertheless, the article admits that not all children who're diagnosed with ADHD have this issue at all...this begs the question, why were they diagnosed with ADHD when they do not display the main...problem....that having ADHD manifests?

Two real problems I had with the article were that it kept talking about the 'nine symptoms' of ADHD, but I could not find where it listed them. I'm positive I didn't miss them. It must be in another article.

http://www.ldawe.ca/DSM_IV.html

the 9 symptoms are the listed diagnostic criteria

To answer the first part, it is because, like all things in abnormal psychology, adhd has a constilation of symptoms existing on a continuum. Some people will have some of the 9 symptoms to great degrees, others much less. Therefore, hyperactivity specifically, or the specific ability to be attentive to one thing are themselves usefull for diagnosis, but all behaviour needs to be evaluated more hollistically.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Second is just something I had to point out, that I found funny for some reason. "The prevalence of mood disorders in patients with ADHD is more controversial, with studies showing from 0 to 33% of patients with ADHD meeting criteria for a depressive disorder."

0 to 33 percent? Seriously? That's a pretty big net. And it's not the only thing like that in there. There's a 4 to 30% deal on page 13, too.

this means there are a series of studies that put the co-occurance of adhd and depression at different rates, some at high levels, others at low levels. This is the nature of science. As the problem is understood in a more robust way, the gap will shrink and we will have a much better idea.

however, the article says it is controversial and it really doesn't relate to whether adhd is just "daydreaming", what is your point? slander?

Originally posted by Enyalus
My sister was diagnosed with having ADHD (in addition to dyslexia, which I'm not disputing.) Yes, she struggles in math and language arts/English. My opinion on the English thing though, is that she struggles because she doesn't like it. It's not fun for her. So she doesn't try. Not because she has ADHD and can't concentrate. She won't concentrate. I say this convincingly because although she uses her diagnosis with ADHD as an excuse for why she can't focus on her school work,

none of that is incongruent with your sister also having adhd or with adhd being a real thing.

maybe she doesn't try hard enough?

Originally posted by Enyalus
I've seen her do things like sit in my floor for four hours straight playing Grand Theft Auto. I am betting that anyone who has been diagnosed with ADHD here, or who knows someone who has been diagnosed with it, has similar stories. If they aren't interested, they can't pay attention. But damn, if its entertaining and fun, they can do it all day just like any other normal kid.

video games are great for people with adhd because they give nearly constant gratification for behaviour, they reqire to be constantly doing new things. GTA would be a great time for people with adhd.

I think you just have a very limited idea of what adhd means...

Originally posted by Enyalus
To me, that's a discipline problem. Not a medical one.

/sigh

the studies i linked also show that adhd rates are pretty much uniform worldwide and in many cultures, including those where corporal punishment is much more common.

harsh punishment does not help people with adhd, in fact, it is likely that it might drive them to further criminal behaviour

Originally posted by Enyalus
I mean, they're having middle school counselors diagnose these children with this supposed disease.

irrelevant. the government doesn't believe in global warming either, does that mean it doesn't exist?

medical health is still poorly understood by most sectors of the beuracracy, that schools dont get it either is not surprising.

also, i don't think any middle school counselors are doing that

Originally posted by Enyalus
If it's a valid disease and genetic and neurological in nature, why not have it be diagnosed with a CAT scan or MRI or such? But afterall, from your own article, "neuroimaging is a valuable research tool in the study of ADHD, but currently it is not useful for making a diagnosis of ADHD in a clinical practice or in predicting treatment response." Why is that?

Aside from what sym pointed out, neuroimaging requires paitents to stay still for an extended period of time. movement of millimeters can throw off the entire image.

needless to say, young children who have attentional problems are not the best candidates for this. However, leaps are being made:

Utility of functional MRI in pediatric neurology

Freilich ER, Gaillard WD.

Current Neurology and Neuroscience Reports, 2010 Jan;10(1):40-6.

Abstract
Functional MRI (fMRI), a tool increasingly used to study cognitive function, is also an important tool for understanding not only normal development in healthy children, but also abnormal development, as seen in children with epilepsy, attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder, and autism. Since its inception almost 15 years ago, fMRI has seen an explosion in its use and applications in the adult literature. However, only recently has it found a home in pediatric neurology. New adaptations in study design and technologic advances, especially the study of resting state functional connectivity as well as the use of passive task design in sedated children, have increased the utility of functional imaging in pediatrics to help us gain understanding into the developing brain at work. This article reviews the background of fMRI in pediatrics and highlights the most recent literature and clinical applications.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20425225

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
No such thing, unless someone actually removed part of your genome.
My meaning should have been obvious, and that wasn't it.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Do you really consider your sister to be a statistically meaningful sample size?
Do you really mean to tell me you haven't encountered similar situations, where someone you know has been diagnosed with this supposed 'disease' and yet displays perfectly normal behavior when they want to, such as in my example?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Because people aren't going to blow $1000 on every diagnosis. If you can build a cheap easy to use fMRI machine I'm certain that the medical and psychological communities would build a statue for you.
That's how most other diseases are diagnosed. With thousands of dollars worth of tests. Bardock42's cancer example, for instance. Otherwise, the person doing the diagnosis is engaging in speculation with zero hard evidence.

That article inimalist cited said that treatment and diagnosis is based on empirical evidence. Exactly what empirical evidence do you have without hard scientific tests?

Originally posted by Enyalus
Do you really mean to tell me you haven't encountered similar situations, where someone you know has been diagnosed with this supposed 'disease' and yet displays perfectly normal behavior when they want to, such as in my example?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Originally posted by Enyalus
That's how most other diseases are diagnosed. With thousands of dollars worth of tests. Bardock42's cancer example, for instance. Otherwise, the person doing the diagnosis is engaging in speculation with zero hard evidence.

That article inimalist cited said that treatment and diagnosis is based on empirical evidence. Exactly what empirical evidence do you have without hard scientific tests?

apples to oranges though

cancer is terminal and completely invasive to ones life. It is not something your child has and you wish they would just behanve goddamnit

further, most practicing doctors have a poor grasp of mental health problems, which means you need to see a specialist, which can take months. There aren't "urgent care" cnetres you can go to for help.

There is plenty of behavioural evidence, especially when diagnosed by specialists. Your own logic is backward as well. All of the fMRI work is based on diagnoses made by behavioural observation. The fact that fMRI is useful at all is a confirmation that the behavioural diagnosis is working

Originally posted by Enyalus
My meaning should have been obvious, and that wasn't it.

I must say I really don't know what "genetic deficiency" is supposed to mean outside of eugenics or some weird process of excessing DNA.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Do you really mean to tell me you haven't encountered similar situations, where someone you know has been diagnosed with this supposed 'disease' and yet displays perfectly normal behavior when they want to, such as in my example?

Yes. I've been diagnosed ADHD, OCD, Aspegers and if I really want to I can act perfectly normal. But doing so usually makes me miserable and it's actually pretty exhausting.

Originally posted by Enyalus
That's how most other diseases are diagnosed. With thousands of dollars worth of tests.

No, they're not. Unless you go to Princeton Plainsborough.

Originally posted by Enyalus
That article inimalist cited said that treatment and diagnosis is based on empirical evidence. Exactly what empirical evidence do you have without hard scientific tests?

Observed behavior is empirical evidence.

Originally posted by inimalist
nobody would call adhd a genetic deficency

I have type 1 diabetes, do you consider me a genetic defect? My disorder is far more complicating to one's life than adhd is....
Based on the information you've given me, if I were to go to just about any elementary school and pick out ten kids at random, one of them would have ADHD. They would have a mental disease that is detrimental enough to their cognitive faculties to warrant putting five year olds on behavioral medication which has been linked to depression and suicides in the past. This is what you're telling me. Do you honestly believe that one in ten of our children have this problem?

If so, there's not really anything that I can say. We'd have to agree to disagree, because I simply am not buying that. I feel that the vast majority of these children are being misdiagnosed and given powerful drugs they do not need, as well as being made to feel inferior when there is in all probability nothing wrong with them.

Originally posted by inimalist
And while this one article does say that there are other causes, taken with much of the other literature on the matter, it seems that genetics are the most, and possibly the only, significant factor.
It gave specific markers in various chromosomes for why they believe that...but I don't know what they're basing that off of and why they think that, when they can't use things like neuroimaging to help them scientifically determine the diagnosis in the first place. That's ignorance on my part, yes, but it seems to me if you're going to say for certain that ADHD is a valid disease and caused by a genetic defect, you should be able to determine exactly where that defect comes into play at. (Maybe they have?)



Originally posted by inimalist
http://www.ldawe.ca/DSM_IV.html

the 9 symptoms are the listed diagnostic criteria

To answer the first part, it is because, like all things in abnormal psychology, adhd has a constilation of symptoms existing on a continuum. Some people will have some of the 9 symptoms to great degrees, others much less. Therefore, hyperactivity specifically, or the specific ability to be attentive to one thing are themselves usefull for diagnosis, but all behaviour needs to be evaluated more hollistically.

Okay. Those symptoms, most things listed under inattention, hyperactivity and impulsivity, just seem like things any normal child would have issues with. Children are very high-energy, usually bouncing around, running everywhere and doing one thing now, another thing a few minutes later. IMO, that's completely normal. Par example:

"often fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities" - this happens frequently, with children and adults (at work for instance) if you simply don't enjoy what you are doing. If its boring to you or monotonous, you tune it out. Normal to me. You called it the GTA example you responded to.

"often does not follow through on instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace" - this is basic procrastination. Don't we ALL suffer from this? I swear, I haven't met anyone in grad school who doesn't procrastinate their ass off (graduate students have to be the biggest procrastinators in the world.) How is this a symptom to a disease that bears drug prescriptions?

"often avoids, dislikes, or is reluctant to engage in tasks that require sustained mental effort (such as schoolwork or homework)" - How many of us disliked going to school or at least sitting down and doing homework? I would hope all of us. I know I had better shit to do. Wanted to go watch TV or play some Sega Genesis, not concentrate on work.

The hyperactivity section is very....unbelievable to me. Fidgeting and such? Kids should have a lot of energy. If they're being made to sit still in their desks for a few hours at a time, then why shouldn't they be fidgeting? I again don't see anything wrong with this, and it seems like the behavior of a perfectly normal child. The real kicker is the 'often talks excessively.' Holy shit. Every middle and high school girl ever suffers from this symptom.

"often blurts out answers to questions before they have been completed" - Like you pointed out, its typical for a child to want to be gratified. That they're excited about knowing an answer, so excited that they blurt it out....there's something wrong with that?

And before you send me another link to 'confirmation bias', please know that it's not confirmation bias, it's empirical evidence. Most children behave this way based upon observation. It's natural. It's not a disease.


Originally posted by inimalist
however, the article says it is controversial and it really doesn't relate to whether adhd is just "daydreaming", what is your point? slander?
What I said was, "Honestly, how many times did all you sit in school (elementary and such) and daydream?" Most of the 'inattention' symptoms can be attributed to simply daydreaming while in class or something. Children also have a vivid imagination. I used to daydream all the time in class when I found it dull. Did you?

Originally posted by inimalist
maybe she doesn't try hard enough?
When I point this out to my mother she bites my head off.

Originally posted by inimalist
video games are great for people with adhd because they give nearly constant gratification for behaviour, they reqire to be constantly doing new things. GTA would be a great time for people with adhd.

It seems to me that, based upon that opinion, if teachers and curriculum were based around positively reinforcing children's self-image and rewarding them for their work, ADHD wouldn't be a problem and in most cases wouldn't be diagnosed at all. In that case, I would say that the problem does not lie with the child or any perceived disease they might have, but how people and adults around them interact with them.

Originally posted by inimalist
I think you just have a very limited idea of what adhd means...
I think that based on the evidence you've given me and the symptoms of ADHD, even if a person were observed to have, say, 80% of those symptoms, it shouldn't be filed under a problem. Let alone a disease.

Originally posted by inimalist
irrelevant. the government doesn't believe in global warming either, does that mean it doesn't exist?
Totally off topic here but, it was pretty clear with that email scandal that went on amongst environmental scientists a few months back that man's role in global warming was vastly overrated and statistics were intentionally doctored and made up to support it.


Originally posted by inimalist
Aside from what sym pointed out, neuroimaging requires paitents to stay still for an extended period of time. movement of millimeters can throw off the entire image.

needless to say, young children who have attentional problems are not the best candidates for this. However, leaps are being made:

Utility of functional MRI in pediatric neurology

Freilich ER, Gaillard WD.

Current Neurology and Neuroscience Reports, 2010 Jan;10(1):40-6.

Abstract
Functional MRI (fMRI), a tool increasingly used to study cognitive function, is also an important tool for understanding not only normal development in healthy children, but also abnormal development, as seen in children with epilepsy, attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder, and autism. Since its inception almost 15 years ago, fMRI has seen an explosion in its use and applications in the adult literature. However, only recently has it found a home in pediatric neurology. New adaptations in study design and technologic advances, especially the study of resting state functional connectivity as well as the use of passive task design in sedated children, have increased the utility of functional imaging in pediatrics to help us gain understanding into the developing brain at work. This article reviews the background of fMRI in pediatrics and highlights the most recent literature and clinical applications.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20425225
Good to know.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Yes. I've been diagnosed ADHD, OCD, Aspegers and if I really want to I can act perfectly normal. But doing so usually makes me miserable and it's actually pretty exhausting.
Yeah. I completely understand and agree. But acting perfectly 'normal' always takes some effort. I mean, who always turns their work in on time without procrastinating, volunteers for extra projects at work, pays meticulous attention to details even when you're doing something extraordinarily boring, etc...all without a bit of effort.

Behaving 'normally' takes a lot of effort. For everyone, I'm sure. It doesn't mean there's something wrong with that.

gUdiAceSNvo&feature=fvw

PzC2eM1tWRk&feature=related

Carlos Mencia has to be one of the worst comedians.

its what happens when you lower the bar...

I prefer Demetri Martin.

I like Micheal Epps and David Chappelle.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Good to know.

/facepalm

most of your complaints are actually answered on the DSM symptom page I linked to, or are summed up by the fact that neuroimaging is only successful because it confirms that behavioural evidence is successful, were the behavioural methods not correct, fMRI would have found no relative differences between adhd subjects and control.

I'm sorry this doesn't coform to the "Kick in the ass" thesis, but hey, scientists are dishonest people who conspire with eachother to doctor evidnce in a non-competitive way in order to fail to uncover the truth, as your enlightening thoughts on global warming pointed out.

I hope you have a better grasp of history...

Envalus, though you're pretty damn wrong...quite conclusively, I do agree that too many children were diagnosed with ADD/ADHD in the early to mid 90s.

It was quite obvious, for me, which kids just needed better parenting and which kids actually had some sort of neurological difference.

My psychiatrist (specialized in ADHD) told me that a quick and simple way to tell if a child had a form of ADHD is to give him (or her) a stimulant. If the child calms down, they were probably diagnosed correctly. If they "speed" up, they probably were misdiagnosed. Though, that's not a 100% conclusive test, he would use repots back from parents on his new patients (that were taking ADD/ADHD meds) to gauge how the child was doing.

Anywho, something that specific indicates, at least, on a very observable level, that there is something different about some children, as far as "drugs" and their actions. They react the opposite of what you'd expect from the stimulants...very strange. I still don't understand why that happens, but it does.

That's just one very specific facet that is testable and observable.

As we expand our understanding of psychology, we are beginning to understand that things are not entirely up to the invidiual: it's not just pure environment. Lots of it have to do with genetics and even how the baby develops in the womb. Pretty cool stuff.

Sure, you may not like the fact that some people will have a legit excuse to, say, being an alcoholic or a pervert, but that doesn't change the fact that some people will have a genetic or some other uncontrollable factor, contributing to a behavior you deem negative.

That doesn't mean people with ADHD are idiots or lower than regular humans: they can do things you can't, and better, too. Play airhockey with someone that has ADHD: you'll probably get your ass kicked. Play a game of focus that requires the player to quickly change their focus and assess an item, such as pictionary: the ADHD player is the one you want on your team. hahaha.



BTW, I can't play a game for more than 3 hours. Usually, I get bored after about 20-40 minutes. Some games, especailly RPGS, that quickly change pace, story, and the tasks being done, are very enjoyable such as Fable and Fable2. I can play those games for up to 2-3 hours. Other games, like FPS games, I can't play for more than 20-40 minutes: it gets too damn boring.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Yes. I've been diagnosed ADHD, OCD, Aspegers

ADHD?

I can see that.

OCD?

I can also see that.

Asperbergers?

Unless it's very very mild, I don't see that at all. You're far from Asperbergers. You've showed empathy, get jokes about as well as well as anyone, have really sharp wit (which flies right in the face of Asperbergers), and you don't ramble on and on. You seem very aware of those around you, at least on this board. I'd have to see you in person, though, to be sure. But, from what I can tell from your posts, you're quite normal...with just a smarter brain than most.

Originally posted by dadudemon


ADHD?

I can see that.

OCD?

I can also see that.

Asperbergers?

Unless it's very very mild, I don't see that at all. You're far from Asperbergers. You've showed empathy, get jokes about as well as well as anyone, have really sharp wit (which flies right in the face of Asperbergers), and you don't ramble on and on. You seem very aware of those around you, at least on this board. I'd have to see you in person, though, to be sure. But, from what I can tell from your posts, you're quite normal...with just a smarter brain than most.

So it is settled. He has ADHD and OCD. Dr. Dadudemon's second opinion rules out Asperger's conclusively.

Originally posted by dadudemon
ADHD?

I can see that.

OCD?

I can also see that.

Asperbergers?

Unless it's very very mild, I don't see that at all. You're far from Asperbergers. You've showed empathy, get jokes about as well as well as anyone, have really sharp wit (which flies right in the face of Asperbergers), and you don't ramble on and on. You seem very aware of those around you, at least on this board. I'd have to see you in person, though, to be sure. But, from what I can tell from your posts, you're quite normal...with just a smarter brain than most.

KMC isn't a good example of where my problems are. In real life if I say something and then walk away because I'm embarrassed that's weird (and even more humiliating) so I avoid speaking at all unless I know the topic very well. Online I can take however long I want to compose an answer. You should see me when there are loud noises or multiple people speaking at once, too.

There's also the matter of time. I was in the first crop of people to actually have a diagnosis since childhood along with therapy and meds.

Sowing:- I managed to wreck 3 sowing machines and was crap the whole subject, funny enough I know enjoy sowing my clothes myself, it relaxes me.

Geography:- because the teacher was boring and I kept falling asleep and getting in trouble. If there had been a better teacher it might have been different, interesting subject when you think about it.

Teachers make a big difference.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
KMC isn't a good example of where my problems are. In real life if I say something and then walk away because I'm embarrassed that's weird (and even more humiliating) so I avoid speaking at all unless I know the topic very well. Online I can take however long I want to compose an answer. You should see me when there are loud noises or multiple people speaking at once, too.

There's also the matter of time. I was in the first crop of people to actually have a diagnosis since childhood along with therapy and meds.

(Shocked that you didn't notice my lil' misspelling in the previous post...more on this later.)

That's what Bardock told me, too: he likes to take time to compose his thoughts and, therefore, prefers text conversation over a verbal conversation.

But, yeah, I'd have to see how you interacted with people in real life to be sure. It's possible that I'm "prejudiced" because ALL of the people I've known that had Aspergers were probably on the extreme end of the syndrome...so someone like you would pale in comparison.


So, if you could, lie down on this couch I have here and tell me more.





Anyway, this lady has the most extreme case of Aspergers that I've ever seen:






http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2652/4169960950_fe53e0b9c9.jpg

Whilst I am sure this conversation has a lot of play to it, please open up a new thread on the subject of society's view of certain conditions, thanks. Leave this one back on the originating topic.

I've never been fond of maths.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Anything history related.

Math I suck at it and I hate it as well!

Definitely Science!

Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
Math I suck at it and I hate it as well!

Oh my, you are back...where have you been?

Speech and History (but only because we had a project in which we had to act out people that lived in our city in the early 1900s and I do not enjoy acting)

Oh and while I enjoyed Calculus, I didn't enjoy it being at 8 am.

Originally posted by inimalist
omg, stop the internetz!!!!

someone call science!!!!

learning disabilities = solved

EDIT: and surprise!!! its the victim's fault for not trying hard enough! its not the student/childs fault unless they dont ask for specific help more often then not its the educators like lazy @$$ teachers who put their backs to the class scribble on the board and mumble college math jargon to a class who is just being introduce to certain math concepts.. they expect you to already know and grasp what they are telling you forgetting that they are suppose to teach these concepts to you and that most shouldnt already know this unless they personally took their time to study this outside the school curriculum.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
its not the student/childs fault unless they dont ask for specific help more often then not its the educators like lazy @$$ teachers who put their backs to the class scribble on the board and mumble college math jargon to a class who is just being introduce to certain math concepts.. they expect you to already know and grasp what they are telling you forgetting that they are suppose to teach these concepts to you and that most shouldnt already know this unless they personally took their time to study this outside the school curriculum.

when I get serious credentials, education reform is something I want to write about for many of the reasons you are talking about.

That issue is separate, however, from whether or not some people have a legitimate mental disorder that requires medication or intense behavioural intervention, which was what I was making a sarcastic remark about. Education could be better, sure, but the fact remains that some people, for no fault of their own, are not capable of prospering in the education system.

Of course, if they don't seek help, it is a failure of the person's guardians and the educational establishment itself, but that is again, totally, a different matter

true, i remember the times i would get completely confused listening to my math and chemistry teachers trying to understand what they are scribbling and saying..

you wait till they are done and pass the work assignment then raise your hand ask for help and they tell you, you should have bn listening or he is not going to explain it again call you a carrot or tell you to figure it out..

then you lean over ask the pretty girl or your friend they smile and tell you stuff like when you see this it means this and i learned this during summer or my parents taught it to me or i have internet and i do stuff like this for fun.. the teacher tells you to shut up and no cheating..

in your mind your like dick... she taught me more in 3 minutes then your stupid college educated @$$ could in days or weeks..

i came to realize it is more often then not the educator then the student when i was an adult and had to take some college course to get certified in my line of work.. our company send us to school got us a tutor and with our hands on knowledge we figured out that a lot of what is taught and words used is just self indulgent garbage to separate ones self from the "layman" sadly if they used words ppl hear everyday ppl would learn faster. me and my 5 buddies had the class curve in chemistry, math and our geology class..

some of the students hated us b/c we were a lil older and didnt look like brainiacs but your average construction jock looking pricks..

we werent any smarter then when we were high school kids. the only difference was that we finally had the understanding of what was being said and no longer struggled in these type of classes.

big words although confusing at times we could figure out what the professors were talking about or we were told by our tutors later.. then the light bulb would light up and we be ooohh why didnt the prick just say that instead of saying all that other garbage.. we call it this in the construction world and this is how we figure it out using this method and i guess if we look at these numbers as this piece of equipment and this number as the PSI and this number as depth + torgue that we are shooting for we get this number or at least we should..

loved anything math related...

loved all history..

hated science

Originally posted by Bardock42
Oh my, you are back...where have you been?

Been working alot got married a year ago almost two years now and been on Facebook alot.What have you been up too?

my chemistry teacher use to get high during lunch so after lunch when we were in class he was pretty laid back and i still struggled barely passed with a D

Originally posted by OB1-adobe
Math

I was never great at it, but it all depended on what teacher I had.

I ranged from getting A's in classes to flat out failing.

Some teachers were cool, and were very helpful teaching you the best way to understand, and then there was always the 'I'm gonna make this class a living hell' teacher Maths is incredibly easy.

Nursing school... Freaking pulling my hair out when I failed an exam on GI tract and the Medications for GI Disorders

French, any languages for that matter.

I was in theater one year, the teacher had gargantuan tata's.

Maths by far
History was my favourite

Originally posted by majid86
Maths by far
History was my favourite

Hisotry is my favourite also, what topics did you like specifically?

Science