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Similar to "rank the espada", rank the Gotei 13 (or 10 now, I guess) and provide reasoning. Aizen, Gin, and Tousen don't need to be on it. I'll post my list in a bit.

1- Yamamoto
2- Unohana (unknown but probably second only to yama)
3- Shunsui
4- Byakuya
5- Ukitake
6- Soifon
7- Kenpachi
8- Hitsugaya
9- Mayuri
10- Komamura

Something like that, even though in the light of recent events, it seems that gotei captains (except for yamamoto and possibly Unohaha) are pretty sh*t compared with guys like Isshin, Urahara or Yoruichi...

Hmm I don't know about that, why is Mayuri so low? And Kenpachi as well.

1. Yamamoto
2. Shunsui
3. Kuchiki
4. Kenpachi
5. Ukitake
6. Soifon
7. Sajin
8. Mayuri
9. Toshiro
10. Unohana

This is based on what is seen, not what we are told.

From what is seen, Toshiro should be way higher on that list, he took out the #3 espada one on one while what has Sajin done that merits a higher placement?

Someone who's pretty high: Yoruichi. Fought against Soi Fon's shikai with bare hands, fastest of all, likely best martial artist, perfected shunko, and we haven't even seen her sword abilities! She was Urahara's senior after all, so likely the next oldest captain between Unohana and Shunsui/Ukitake.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Hmm I don't know about that, why is Mayuri so low? And Kenpachi as well.

Mayuri's got lowish spiritual pressure for a captain judging by Uryu's comments. He's slow for a captain and a poor swordsperson too. His mad science compensates for a lot, but a lot of the captains could likely beat him via power or speed.

Byakuya or Soi Fon could likely avoid everything and get him.

I thought we were just ranking the Gotei 13/10 that we saw at the start of the SS arc?
If not, along with Yuroichi, we'd have to include some of the Vizards, Urahara & Isshin.

Ah, I guess so.



I wouldn't say it's that devastating. Sure, he gets feedback, but it's super hard to hurt.

Soi Fon's lack of mobility while using hers is probably worse.



His kido shikai was pretty neat too. Personally I think going into melee is a mistake for him, he should just stay back and kido spam.

Originally posted by Q99
I wouldn't say it's that devastating. Sure, he gets feedback, but it's super hard to hurt.

Soi Fon's lack of mobility while using hers is probably worse.

I thought that any injury on the Bankai is reflected on him as well?
It has immense power, that I won't deny; but strong and fast enough opponents could avoid the thing and injure it.

She very rarely uses her bankai though. Even Omaeda hadn't seen it prior to their fight against Barragan.
Can't say the same for Komamura. Though I would say Komamura's weakness is greater. Factor in Soifon's limited number of shots, and I'd say hers becomes worse.

Originally posted by Q99
His kido shikai was pretty neat too. Personally I think going into melee is a mistake for him, he should just stay back and kido spam.

You mean the attack where he rains down those metal blades? Or the attack he used against a powerless Uryu?
They were pretty cool.



Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Drop hitsugaya several spots

Otherwise pretty good list

His bankai has quite a number of attacks for different situations, and it's the strongest snow/ice-type in SS. Not to mention, he was able to take on Harribel in her Released State.

As for my list, thanks. I think I've got the tiers right (as in the captains belong in the general area I've listed them in), but as for the actual placement of some (such as Mayuri and Komamura), I'm not entirely certain.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix

His bankai has quite a number of attacks for different situations, and it's the strongest snow/ice-type in SS. Not to mention, he was able to take on Harribel in her Released State.
Except for hitsugaya has repeatedly been found to fluctuate between useless and almost useless

As well as displaying power vastly below what his station should indicate

I thought the Senior Captains (Yama, Unohana, Shunsui and Ukitake) were absolutely the Top 4? After them it gets a bit harder to judge though.

gecko thats why there is a difference between low showings and high showings. as far as hitsugaya's actual strength is concerned, shunsui himself has stated that tohsiro would be stronger than him in 100 years... considering that 100 years in shinigami years is like a couple of years in human years, thats pretty impressive.

also consider that toshiro was afraid that if he used jensou juuren while he was at full power, he might accidentally kill everyone in a 2.5 mile radius, and so waited until he was only at half his full strength to use it, and it was still powerful enough to beat the tres espada. that is a broken power ermm

so yeah. i dont like toshiro either because hes a prick. but clearly hes a top tier captain shrug

Besides the fact he has no high showings that statement is clearly hyperbole considering he couldnt even kill the people in front of him

And he didnt beat the 3 espada....

yes he does, yes he did. saying "no" by itself doesnt mean anything. prove up.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
yes he does, yes he did. saying "no" by itself doesnt mean anything. prove up.
No he really didnt.

Aizen did.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
gecko thats why there is a difference between low showings and high showings. as far as hitsugaya's actual strength is concerned, shunsui himself has stated that tohsiro would be stronger than him in 100 years... considering that 100 years in shinigami years is like a couple of years in human years, thats pretty impressive.

also consider that toshiro was afraid that if he used jensou juuren while he was at full power, he might accidentally kill everyone in a 2.5 mile radius, and so waited until he was only at half his full strength to use it, and it was still powerful enough to beat the tres espada. that is a broken power ermm

so yeah. i dont like toshiro either because hes a prick. but clearly hes a top tier captain shrug In a hundred years Byakuya went from a kid to being an adult and a captain. "Two years lol."

Toshiro can be afraid of whatever he wants... Proves nothing. Also, Harribel has proven to be massively unimpressive. Despite that, if it were not for his prep with his ossum Ice Bunshin thing, he would have died the moment she released. Also, the Espada fought in Hueco Mundo have more power than they would anywhere else, same applies to Harribel, Ichigo had to go all out to beat Grimmjow, but I would still give Ichigo the one up above Toshiro at that point. Oh, and we then see Harribel fighting and holding her own against Toshiro, Hiyori, and Lisa, he got lucky with that attack, his base abilities are not very impressive.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
No he really didnt.

Aizen did.

i dont really care if you say "no". "no" doesnt mean anything because you say it does.

prove up.

aizen killed her, toshiro beat her.



did he really? hmm i cant remember how the age system works. and stupid wikia doesnt state their ages



thats all downplaying without any substantiation. if we go by all that logic then how shunsui impressive at all? the majority of the captains are only powerful because of heresay and word of mouth.

as for ichigo. feat wise he'd annihilate the majority of the captains anyway so thats inconsequential.

as for hallibel, nothing indicated she was "holding her own", and toshiro wasnt even using any of his abilities... they were all sword fighting and kubo only showed one scene for a fraction of a second. thats not "holding her own"

for their ages i found this dont know reliable it is though

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
i dont really care if you say "no". "no" doesnt mean anything because you say it does.

prove up.

Prove what?

Hitsugaya did nothing? or that aizen killed her?

Hitsugaya "Lol I pwn you" attack doing nothing

http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000274472/11.jpg




Aizen kiliing her
http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000274592/05.jpg





Toshiro cant beat shit. Not even his own dick, by way or not having hit puberty

you seem to be missing a page there.

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/4300/0910.jpg

ah there we go. one page and your entire argument shatters to pieces.

How so?

do you understand what happened there?

What? ww broke the ice?

Prove it.

facepalm

it shows it right there on the page. WW screams and in the lower panel the ice starts to crack. what do you think the screamwas for? who do you think it was aimed at?

its even stated in her profile. everyone knows that ww shattered it himself...

Oh wow a wiki im impressed.

Actually stark said that the appearance of ww meant it was time to get serious.

Im inclined to believe the scream meant get off your lazy ass.

Because I doubt hitsugaya would litterally couldnt even scratch hali up through out the entire fight could imprison her against her will

Prove me wrong.

why should i? its like trying to convince someone that a red car is red not blue.

if you want to be deluded feel free. the rest of us will be over there

Nothing else happens and theres no indication that she brakes out herself, so we have no choice but to say it was the scream.

You cant prove me otherwise. Becuase my statement is back up by the manga while yours hinges on 1 panel

ww is the cue to get serious: Proven
Hitsugaya couldnt at any point hurt hali: Proven
Failing at your job is not acceptable: proven
Aizen killed halibel: Proven

Also. It make you wonder. How could That attack legitimately imprison hali when a simple scream could shatter it. Because that is indeed what you are trying to say.

gecko, think what you want to think.

Concession accepted

lol

And you can't prove yourself right. So we should use logic to determine what actually happened. Why didn't she brake out under her own power if thats what she could do at any time? If you seriously think she just didn't becuase 'whatevars!', then you really need to get your head looked at. Furthermore, it was not a 'simple scream' seeing as it cleared smoke from very far away. Theres also no point in that scream as anything but something to brake the ice, from a story stand point.

Also, work on you spelling and grammar.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And you can't prove yourself right. So we should use logic to determine what actually happened. Why didn't she brake out under her own power if thats what she could do at any time? If you seriously think she just didn't becuase 'whatevars!', then you really need to get your head looked at. Furthermore, it was not a 'simple scream' seeing as it cleared smoke from very far away. Theres also no point in that scream as anything but something to brake the ice, from a story stand point.

Also, work on you spelling and grammar.

My point is supported by thing that happened in the story.

So yes.
I can IN FACT prove myself right.


And oh my it cleared smoke. How powerful. I couldnt imagine a large amout of air clearing away smoke....

you see that nephthys? that right there, is indisputable logic.

cower in fear

Oh Noes! shockfox

*cowers*



No, no it is not. Try again.



And oh my, how very witty you are! How very, very witty. And no simple scream could clear smoke from that far away, nor is there any indication that WW sucked in enough air to count as a large amount. His lungs aren't big enough for one.

Compressed air is compressed air.

You dont need a large space.

Again, we have no indication of how much air he inhaled. Tri agin plz.

Your right we dont.

So you cant prove it isnt.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif


So you cant prove it isnt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

When you cant prove something either way it is called a non-factor

Ahhh, teh Logic! She burns!!!!!!

Edit: I think the rules of the forum are the bit under teh 'exception in law' area. Things are innocent until proven guilty and something isn't the case untill you prove it is. Which you have not.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Except for hitsugaya has repeatedly been found to fluctuate between useless and almost useless

As well as displaying power vastly below what his station should indicate

How so? You mean when he pwned Grimmjow's Top Fraccion easily once he was at full strength? Then went on to incapacitate Luppi with one attack? Or the time he incapacitated Harribel with one attack as well? That's fluctuating from useful to terribly useful

Oh wait, he lost to Aizen, and had trouble with Gin. Yeah, he was up against someone who has the most broken ability in Bleach, and he was using shikai against Gin who IMO hasn't even shown us half of what he can really do.

He's a mid-tier captain, not low-tier. I'll agree that his base stats don't seem that impressive (as he's young), but when you factor in his (incomplete) bankai and the shit he pulls off with it, he's a lot stronger than you give him credit for.

Hitsugaya just plain beat Harribel. It's just her luck that the attack was interrupted before the 100 petals had fallen, otherwise guess what, she would have been dead.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
I thought the Senior Captains (Yama, Unohana, Shunsui and Ukitake) were absolutely the Top 4? After them it gets a bit harder to judge though.

Not really.

Old Man Yama's a given.

Jushiro is saddled with low stamina. At his peak, I'd say he's as strong as Shunsui.

Stats-wise, Aizen is at least as strong as Shunsui is, while his shikai ability puts him above Shunsui.

We don't know just how strong Unohana is, but I think that she could heal herself easily in battle, and apparently only Yama has been a captain for longer than she has.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Hitsugaya just plain beat Harribel. It's just her luck that the attack was interrupted before the 100 petals had fallen, otherwise guess what, she would have been dead.

The petals had all stopped falling and he had even put the bankai away, and there sure were enough to be a hundred- I think Hitsugaya just overestimated the deadliness of the move vs someone so tough.


Still, *trapping* her by itself was really impressive.

Originally posted by Q99
The petals had all stopped falling and he had even put the bankai away, and there sure were enough to be a hundred- I think Hitsugaya just overestimated the deadliness of the move vs someone so tough.


Still, *trapping* her by itself was really impressive.
There is nothing indicating all 100 had fallen yet, since if she wasn't dead, obviously the fight wasn't over yet.

Originally posted by King Kandy
There is nothing indicating all 100 had fallen yet, since if she wasn't dead, obviously the fight wasn't over yet.

Sure there was. There was visibly none falling and he had turned off his bankai, the thing that made them fall in the first place.

Just because he thought all 100 falling would kill her doesn't mean he was right. People misjudging attacks often, it doesn't mean it wasn't over.

edit

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
How so? You mean when he pwned Grimmjow's Top Fraccion easily once he was at full strength? Then went on to incapacitate Luppi with one attack? Or the time he incapacitated Harribel with one attack as well? That's fluctuating from useful to terribly useful

Oh wait, he lost to Aizen, and had trouble with Gin. Yeah, he was up against someone who has the most broken ability in Bleach, and he was using shikai against Gin who IMO hasn't even shown us half of what he can really do.

He's a mid-tier captain, not low-tier. I'll agree that his base stats don't seem that impressive (as he's young), but when you factor in his (incomplete) bankai and the shit he pulls off with it, he's a lot stronger than you give him credit for.
He had to use bankai against a fraccion first of all
He got his ass raped by luppi. He had to use his vice captain and others as a distraction while he charged up a otherwise unusable attack. The ease with which an unreleased gj dealt with luppi should be a testament to his strength vs the strength of hitsu

And despite "incapacitating" Hali are a drawn out mockery of a fight the attack was easily broken.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
He had to use bankai against a fraccion first of all
He was under the limit when he released his bankai.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
He had to use bankai against a fraccion first of all

He was under the limit when he used his Bankai.
Notice how easily he ended the fight after the limit was lifted?

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
He got his ass raped by luppi. He had to use his vice captain and others as a distraction while he charged up a otherwise unusable attack. The ease with which an unreleased gj dealt with luppi should be a testament to his strength vs the strength of hitsu

Got his ass raped? How? By getting knocked down? Seemed pretty fine after he reappeared.
If you think getting knocked-down counts as getting ass-raped, then Shunsui got his ass raped by Starrk's Cero.

Yeah, he needed time for that attack, as he had no other option for dealing with Luppi quickly. Had the other Shinigami not been on the field, he would have just used the Hyouten Hyakkasou to ass rape Luppi.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
And despite "incapacitating" Hali are a drawn out mockery of a fight the attack was easily broken.

By Wonderweiss, not Harribel herself. Otherwise, Harribel would have broken out a lot sooner.
The burden of proof is upon you to prove that Harribel broke out of the structure by herself, despite the chapter pointing to WW breaking her out.


Originally posted by Q99
Sure there was. There was visibly none falling and he had turned off his bankai, the thing that made them fall in the first place.

Just because he thought all 100 falling would kill her doesn't mean he was right. People misjudging attacks often, it doesn't mean it wasn't over.

Even if that attack did not kill her (a testament to her strength level, since he states that it would kill her), he had already beaten her.
There was a fairly long period of time between her incapacitation and WW's scream.

As for misjudging attacks, not really. I can understand misjudging the strength of another person's attack, but your own?
Hitsugaya would have to be an idiot to misjudge the strength of an attack he knows well, and he isn't an idiot.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix

Even if that attack did not kill her (a testament to her strength level, since he states that it would kill her), he had already beaten her.
There was a fairly long period of time between her incapacitation and WW's scream.

Yea, she was fairly solidly trapped.

It's a pretty good ability: Even if it doesn't kill the target almost no enemies could actually escape from it.




Not the strength of the attack itself which he knew, but misjudging the effect due to the toughness of the target which he didn't.



Remember how Tousen and Komomura thought their combined shikai would take out Kenpachi for another example (and a much bigger misjudging!).

Originally posted by Q99
Yea, she was fairly solidly trapped.

It's a pretty good ability: Even if it doesn't kill the target almost no enemies could actually escape from it.

Indeed. The only way to actually escape the attack is to have someone break it from the outside, or to avoid the snow, which would be pretty hard if Toshiro increases the range of the snow-fall.
One would probably have to be as strong as Shunsui or Aizen to break out from inside I think. Then again, they could likely just avoid the attack altogether.

Originally posted by Q99
Not the strength of the attack itself which he knew, but misjudging the effect due to the toughness of the target which he didn't.

Remember how Tousen and Komomura thought their combined shikai would take out Kenpachi for another example (and a much bigger misjudging!).

Yeah, I understand. My bad.

if the attack really does have a radius of 2.5 miles it would be almost impossible to dodge. i think the only way one would be able to escape it would be breaking out through sheer spiritual pressure or something. that shouldnt be too hard for the top tier captains

Possibly one could throw something up to make the petals 'bloom' before they touch you. I could see Byakuya's bankai doing that.

Originally posted by King Kandy
From what is seen, Toshiro should be way higher on that list, he took out the #3 espada one on one while what has Sajin done that merits a higher placement?

From what I have seen, Harribel did nothing to warrent a #3 rating other than survive an attack that she was already "aligned" to with her Nature (she was also a water type, too. lol...naruto.)

Over all, Sajin seems more useful in a fight.


Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Prove what?

Hitsugaya did nothing? or that aizen killed her?

Hitsugaya "Lol I pwn you" attack doing nothing

http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000274472/11.jpg




Aizen kiliing her
http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000274592/05.jpg





Toshiro cant beat shit. Not even his own dick, by way or not having hit puberty




Where the **** have you been?

sajin would be good if not for that whole "lolitakewhateverdamagemybankaitakes" stuff. that makes his abilities so0o00o gay.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
sajin would be good if not for that whole "lolitakewhateverdamagemybankaitakes" stuff. that makes his abilities so0o00o gay.
Cut off the head of his Bankai...

BOOM HEADSHOT!

Originally posted by dadudemon
From what I have seen, Harribel did nothing to warrent a #3 rating other than survive an attack that she was already "aligned" to with her Nature (she was also a water type, too. lol...naruto.)



And you know, being strong enough to demolish Las Noches with her release; summoning large torrents of water and using them to crush shit.

edit on my post: *warrant

Noticed that newb spelling mistake.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
And you know, being strong enough to demolish Las Noches with her release; summoning large torrents of water and using them to crush shit.

You mean CLEAN sh*t. 313

i dont knwo why but i lol'd

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
i dont knwo why but i lol'd

Because my lame-ass jokes are starting to rub off on you. Watch: one day, you'll make a really dry pun and then facepalm while calling it a DDM moment.

i also typo'd that know. todays just one of those days

Originally posted by dadudemon

You mean CLEAN sh*t. 313

Man, you just evoked a Toilet-based image

So not cool >___>

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Man, you just evoked a Toilet-based image

So not cool >___>

I didn't do anything. You just think about pewp too much.