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Two teams:

Magic team:

Voldemort and the four Death Eaters from OOTP
Dumbledore
Bellatrix Lestrange
Sirius Black
Mad Eye Moody
Remus Lupin
Nymphadora Tonks
Kingsley Shacklebolt
Harry Potter
Hermione Granger
Fenrir Greyback
Filius Flitwick
Severus Snape
Minerva McGonagall
Ginny Weasley
Lucuis Malfoy




Force team:

Darth Sidious
Darth Vader (ROTS to ROTJ)
Yoda
Mace Windu
Luke Skywalker (ROTJ)
Darth Maul
Qui Gon Jinn
Obi Wan Kenobi (ROTS)
Ki Adi Mundi
Aayla Secura
Plo Koon
Saesee Tinn
Sio Bibble
Depe Billaba
Eeth Koth
Count Dooku
Yaddle
Yarael Poof
Shaak Ti
Kit Fisto



20 Elite HP wizards versus 20 Elite SW Sith/Jedi.


They engage in an all out battle to the death. The battle takes place in Manhattan prison (Escape from NY), at night. Most of the prisoners are watching.


The wizards know what the force users can do, and the Jedi know what the wizards can do. Each side has 30 minutes prep time. There is no felix felicis potion around. Harry has his invisibility cloak. The wizards who cannot apparate alone have firebolts that they can accio when they wish.

EACH COMBATANT CAN USE ONLY WHAT POWERS THEY ARE SHOWN USING IN THEIR MOVIES. However, if one of the Jedi, for example, were never shown using force push/pull onscreen, they can still use it, because durh it is a basic Jedi power. On the other hand, if one of the wizards is never shown using a simple wizard spell (Protego, for example) they can use it, because again, durh, it is a basic wizard power. the Jedi/Sith/Wizard would not be where they are if they didn't know these simple powers.

Morals are turned off here. It is kill or be killed.

Also, to make it fair, no Hocrux bullshit for Voldemort. If he is killed in battle here, he is gone. It wouldn't be fair to include his hocruxes. They still exist, but for this battle, he cannot rely on them.

Prep is pretty much one-sided here, as the wizards have slower spells that wouldn't work well in combat, yet given half an hour, they could set the battle-field to their advantage with traps and whatnots. The Jedi have nothing where prep could give them an advantage in kind, or much of one.

So to me, it seems you're angling the battle to favor the HP crew.

Still think the Jedi win due to their precog and greater speed, wizard to Jedi/Sith, the wizard isn't a match, generally. But the prep could turn the tide.

Traps? Not sure I follow.....

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Traps? Not sure I follow.....

The BS you tried to pull in the 501st Vs Hogwarts thread. Forget the name of the spell.

Ah, the age line. Or the tech charm. Totally slipped my mind.

OK, no tech charm, the Jedi/Sith will have fully functioning weaponry thoughout,. And no age line. Better?

I started to place the battle at Hogwarts, but those two spells would ruin it.

Not those, the ones were people teleport if they step on something.

Either way, Jedi/Sith win in the end here.

Sidious/Maul/Dooku/Plo Koon Force Lightning/Electric Judgement everybody on the wizard side.

Originally posted by Robtard
Not those, the ones were people teleport if they step on something.

Either way, Jedi/Sith win in the end here. You mean Portus? That would take no prep time. The wizard selects an object, casts portus on it, done deal.

The Jedi do NOT win here, dude. You got apparating wizards, alot of them casting fiendfyre. You got death spells flying around from every angle. Half apparaters casting fiendfyre. Dumbles casting fiendfyre. Hermione casting Oppugno on the prisoners turning the on the Jedi/Sith. You got Flitwick casting protego horriblis shield charms. You got wizards casting portus on items and levitating them at the Jedi, one touch and FOOMP they are gone. Hell, Hermione can cast Oppugno on the police force and turn THEM on the Jedi.

There will be too much going on at once, the Jedi will be overwhelmed.

Originally posted by KingD19
Sidious/Maul/Dooku/Plo Koon Force Lightning/Electric Judgement everybody on the wizard side. Nah, they'll be covered in fiendfyre.

Almost forgot. Potions.

http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Draught_of_Living_Death

Harry made a perfect batch in one classroom session. Horace Slughorn, potions master, said "One drop will kill us all."

Make a batch, levitate it high above the Jedi (who will be trying to fend off fiendfyre and death spells), and dump it on them.

im not touching this debate with a ten foot pole

Shouldn't people be reported for tipping the scales in the favor of the team they want to win...all the time.

Another biased RJ thread... whoopie!

Someone tell me why I shouldn't close this potential shit storm.

F*ck it, I'll allow it.

I won't be participating.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You mean Portus? That would take no prep time. The wizard selects an object, casts portus on it, done deal.

The Jedi do NOT win here, dude. You got apparating wizards, alot of them casting fiendfyre. You got death spells flying around from every angle. Half apparaters casting fiendfyre. Dumbles casting fiendfyre. Hermione casting Oppugno on the prisoners turning the on the Jedi/Sith. You got Flitwick casting protego horriblis shield charms. You got wizards casting portus on items and levitating them at the Jedi, one touch and FOOMP they are gone. Hell, Hermione can cast Oppugno on the police force and turn THEM on the Jedi.

There will be too much going on at once, the Jedi will be overwhelmed.

Lesser Jedi blocked thousands and thousands of bolts from hundreds and hundreds of droids, yet they fared well considering the numbers, in AoTC.

Deathspells aren't touching any of these Jedi/Sith. Fiendfyre being physical could be Force-pushed back onto the caster. Flying potions, lol, are you serious; this makes sense to you? No, dude, no.

Lol, there's prisoners and police here? Jedi mind-trick.

No, the wizards who lack precog and are much slower overall will be overwhelmed, is the more likely scenario. Many a wizard will die in mid spell-cast.

Robtard is a douchebag.

The Jedi/Sith ftw...

Originally posted by Impediment
Robtard is a douchebag.

Agreed.

Show me your wife's butt-hole.

Originally posted by KingD19
Shouldn't people be reported for tipping the scales in the favor of the team they want to win...all the time. How? They are on even ground, they have all their powers, how is it tipping the scales?

Originally posted by Robtard
Lesser Jedi blocked thousands and thousands of bolts from hundreds and hundreds of droids, yet they fared well considering the numbers, in AoTC. When have I ever questioned a Jedi's ability to do this?

So the force users will force push away the fiendfyre, avoid the death spells, avoid the draught potion being dropped upon them, and avoid all the other shit the wizards throw at them? No, dude. No.

How does flying potions make no sense? Harry is capable of making a perfect living draught potion. There ARE levitation charms. Brew the potion, levitate a cauldron full of it, and drop it on the force users. "One drop will kill us all." And if the force users see the potion and force push it away, they are hit by a death spell, or fiendfyre gets them. They can only do so much, dude.

Think about what weapons the force users have here. Two guys who can do force lightning, one who can do force choke, all can do force pull/push, and their saber skills. The wizards are gonna be everywhere at once, force lightning MIGHT get a couple of them, MAYBE. Force choke? IF Vader gets ahold of a wizard with force choke, the wizard simply apparates away. Same with force pull, if a force used force pulls a wizard to them, the wizard simply apparates away. Also, IF Vader gets a wizard in a force choke, Anapneo:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spells_in_Harry_Potter

Anapneo

Pronunciation: /əˈnæpniː.oʊ/ ə-NAP-nee-oh
Description: Clears the target's airway, if blocked.
Seen/mentioned: Shown in Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, Horace Slughorn casts this spell on Marcus Belby when the latter begins to choke.

Excellent counter. Now all we have to do is debate what is stronger, Oppugno or the Jedi mind trick. Considering that the Jedi mind trick only works on the weak minded, I'm going with Oppugno. And Oppugno can be used on anything. Rocks, people, anything.

Ah, the precog. In the Potter/Vader thread, it was proven that Vader did not sense Han Solo at the battle of Yavin because Vader had his attention focused elsewhere. Well, with fiendfyre, death spells and other spells and potions flying around, the Jedi, all of them, will be dividing their attention in different places all at once.

So, your precog? SEVERELY hampered.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So the force users will force push away the fiendfyre, avoid the death spells, avoid the draught potion being dropped upon them, and avoid all the other shit the wizards throw at them? No, dude. No.

Sounds to me like you've already chosen a victor. But, everyone's balanced, say you.

I need not a Magic 8-Ball too foresee the direction of this thread.

I'm done. I have better things to do.

Originally posted by Impediment
Sounds to me like you've already chosen a victor. But, everyone's balanced, say you.

I need not a Magic 8-Ball too foresee the direction of this thread.

I'm done. I have better things to do.

What's the problem? It's an even number of combatants, it's the best force users against the best wizards, it's neutral ground, they have all their powers, what is it? I even left out the hocruxes to make it fair. I don't see what everyone is bitching about.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So the force users will force push away the fiendfyre, avoid the death spells, avoid the draught potion being dropped upon them, and avoid all the other shit the wizards throw at them? No, dude. No.

Yes, that's exactly what would happen.


On top of that, the jedi just force push all of the wizards, at the begining of the fight, so hard and so fast that they all smash against a hard surface and die...except for Dumb and Vold.

They Apparate out and the Emperor force storms their @ss right as they appear while Vader and Dooku force choke them. They both die in 2 seconds.


The end.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yes, that's exactly what would happen.


On top of that, the jedi just force push all of the wizards, at the begining of the fight, so hard and so fast that they all smash against a hard surface and die...except for Dumb and Vold.

They Apparate out and the Emperor force storms their @ss right as they appear while Vader and Dooku force choke them. They both die in 2 seconds.


The end. Strategy, dude, strategy. If the wizards know what the force users can do, they won't go toe to toe with them. They will attack from afar, they will apparate in and out, they will be everywhere at once.

IF a force user gets them in a force push/pull, the wizard apparates out of it and attacks again.

Force push? Useless here.
Froce pull? Useless here.
Force choke? Also useless.
Precog? Severely hampered.

100 times out of 100, wizards curbstomp the force users.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi


Force push? Useless here.
Froce pull? Useless here.
Force choke? Also useless.
Precog? Severely hampered.


Next thing we know you'll be saying:

Decapitation by lightsabre? Useless here.

Originally posted by Blinky
Next thing we know you'll be saying:

Decapitation by lightsabre? Useless here. No, that would be quite effective.

Force push? Force choke? Force pull? The wizard apparates away, simple as that. So yeah, useless.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Strategy, dude, strategy. If the wizards know what the force users can do, they won't go toe to toe with them. They will attack from afar, they will apparate in and out, they will be everywhere at once.

IF a force user gets them in a force push/pull, the wizard apparates out of it and attacks again.

Force push? Useless here.
Froce pull? Useless here.
Force choke? Also useless.
Precog? Severely hampered.

100 times out of 100, wizards curbstomp the force users.

Since the Jedi use Far-Seeing to see exactly what will happen, they predict everything and r@pe. You shouldn't have given them prep. teeeeeeheeeee!

Pwned!

Force Push? Perfectly usable here. Show me one time where ANY wizard or witch aparated out of being knocked back when hit with something that knocks them back like a spell.



On that note, I'm not taking this as seriously as others might be...I'm just trying to have fun.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Since the Jedi use Far-Seeing to see exactly what will happen, they predict everything and r@pe. You shouldn't have given them prep. teeeeeeheeeee!

Pwned!

Force Push? Perfectly usable here. Show me one time where ANY wizard or witch aparated out of being knocked back when hit with something that knocks them back like a spell.



On that note, I'm not taking this as seriously as others might be...I'm just trying to have fun. I know, babe, you act like I dont know you. heartbeat

But seriously, this thread isn't getting any hits because it's obvious that the wizards pwn the force users, and the HP haters can't STAND it.

See what happens, people? See what happens when we take the best HP wizards and the best SW force users, place them on neutral ground, give them their weapons/powers, and have them see who is the best?

Wizards win, all day, every day, 24/7, 365. HP magic is stronger than the force. Wizards are stronger than Force users.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I know, babe, you act like I dont know you. heartbeat

But seriously, this thread isn't getting any hits because it's obvious that the wizards pwn the force users, and the HP haters can't STAND it.

See what happens, people? See what happens when we take the best HP wizards and the best SW force users, place them on neutral ground, give them their weapons/powers, and have them see who is the best?

Wizards win, all day, every day, 24/7, 365. HP magic is stronger than the force. Wizards are stronger than Force users.



I think you should have given the magic users Felix Felicis potion.





Just to make it fair.


And, I disagree.

Wizards with their best weapons can beat anyone except Manhattan and people similar to that. Force users with their best weapons still lose: what does the sun crusher do against a large group of powerful wizards that just sipped some Felicis? Should do nothing, by all accounts.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I think you should have given the magic users Felix Felicis potion.





Just to make it fair.


And, I disagree.

Wizards with their best weapons can beat anyone except Manhattan and people similar to that. Force users with their best weapons still lose: what does the sun crusher do against a large group of powerful wizards that just sipped some Felicis? Should do nothing, by all accounts. No one cares what you think, ***.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
But seriously, this thread isn't getting any hits because it's obvious that the wizards pwn the force users, and the HP haters can't STAND it.

See what happens, people? See what happens when we take the best HP wizards and the best SW force users, place them on neutral ground, give them their weapons/powers, and have them see who is the best?

Wizards win, all day, every day, 24/7, 365. HP magic is stronger than the force. Wizards are stronger than Force users.



No, nothing like that. Jedi win is more likely, for reasons stated in the 1st page.

I suspect people just aren't interested in getting into yet another debate with you where you simply refuse to accept that your beloved wizards lose, at least not so soon.

We've just had the Potter Vs Vader thread, where you did the typical 'gimp the guy you want lose while boosting the guy you want win' sing-and-dance routine; this thread is bound to turn the same way. Too soon, dude. Too soon.

Originally posted by Robtard
No, nothing like that. Jedi win is more likely, for reasons stated in the 1st page.

I suspect people just aren't interested in getting into yet another debate with you where you simply refuse to accept that your beloved wizards lose, at least not so soon.

We've just had the Potter Vs Vader thread, where you did the typical 'gimp the guy you want lose while boosting the guy you want win' sing-and-dance routine; this thread is bound to turn the same way. Too soon, dude. Too soon. How you figure?

Here's what the Jedi/Sith can attack with:

Force pull: The wizard apparates away, problem solved.

Force push: The wizard apparates away, problem solved.

Force choke: The wizard apparates away, problem solved.

Force lightning: The wizard apparates away, problem solved.

Saber attack: The wizards aren't fools, they aren't gonna go toe to toe with the Jedi/Sith. They will attack from afar, and with more than the Jedi/Sith can handle.

Precog: Severely Hampered: So much will be going on around them, the Jedi/Sith can only concentrate on so many things at once. Don't agree? OK, question....Hey, Rob, in ANH, why didn't Vader sense the Falcon attacking him at the battle of Yavin? Also, why didn't he sense the TIE that barreled into his TIE? Hmm?




So, what's left? Nothing. Wizards are stronger, stop denying it. "Jedi win is more likely", PROVE IT.

Exactly, you're gimping the Jedi and taking away their precog and speed, while simultaneously turning the wizards into some sort of super-tanks.

-Force-choked, they're not casting spells, they're spitting, gurgling and dieing. Some might work their way out wih a spell/attack, but not most.

-Force-pushed, their being knocked about, knocked out or possibly killed.

-Force-crush, incapacitated; likely dead.

-Force-pull, likely to be disoriented for a bit, but this one you may have a point.

-Force-lighting, wizards are fried, as they're not faster than the speed of lightning, dude.

So like I said, this is why people are avoiding this thread, typical biased tactics of gimping and boosting who you see fit.

Originally posted by Robtard
Exactly, you're gimping the Jedi and taking away their precog and speed, while simultaneously turning the wizards into some sort of super-tanks. Nope. I haven't taken away anything. The wizards have.

Precog? Hardly useful because of all the shit happening at once.

Force speed? Dumbledore casts Aresto Momentum:

http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Aresto_Momentum


Aresto Momentum (ah-REST-oh mo-MEN-tum) is a spell that slows or stops the movement of an object. Albus Dumbledore used this charm wandlessly to slow Harry Potter's fall during a Quidditch match in 1993, when he was overcome by Dementors.

Nah, they just apparate out of it. It's not a verbal spell like Expelliarmus, they think it, then they do it, nothing can stop them. Look it up.

Nah, they just apparate out of it. It's not a verbal spell like Expelliarmus, they think it, then they do it, nothing can stop them. Look it up.

Nah, only Vader can do that. If he does it, he leaves himself open to be spelld or for fiendfyre.

Nah, they just apparate out of it. It's not a verbal spell like Expelliarmus, they think it, then they do it, nothing can stop them. Look it up.

Nah, they just apparate out of it. It's not a verbal spell like Expelliarmus, they think it, then they do it, nothing can stop them. Look it up. Force lightning takes a while to kill, it's not instant.

Nah, it's just that no one wants to admit the true extent of a wizards power.

Everything the force users have the wizards can counter in their sleep.


One more time:

http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Aresto_Momentum


Aresto Momentum (ah-REST-oh mo-MEN-tum) is a spell that slows or stops the movement of an object. Albus Dumbledore used this charm wandlessly to slow Harry Potter's fall during a Quidditch match in 1993, when he was overcome by Dementors.


Get it? Got it? Good.

How nice of you to decide precog is no longer useful in a fight. Considering that, there's no real reason to counter the rest, it'd be pointless.

Enjoy your thread.

Originally posted by Robtard
How nice of you to decide precog is no longer useful. Considering that, there's no real reason to counter the rest, it'd be pointless.

Enjoy your thread. You don't get it, man. Vaders precog was hampered in ANH because he was focusing on Luke and the other X Wings. He didn't sense Solo, and he didn't sense the TIE that crippled his ship.

Here, the force users will be dealing with fiendfyre, death spells, deadly potions being dropped from above, their comrades being frozen where they stand (Aresto Momentum, incarcerous and Petrificus Totalus), Being blown hundreds of feet into the air and dropping to the pavement (levicorpus), being blown to bits by Reducto, being tortured by crucio, impedimenta and imperio, engorgio, prisoners being turned on them, shield charms, sectumsempra (basically a sword that can attack from hundreds of feet away), apparating and half apparating wizards, and Lord knows what else.

You telling me that with all this shit going on at once, their precog will work perfectly? P-uh-leez, you're grasping at straws, reaching. It's embarassing.

In closing, there IS no countering the rest, there IS no countering any of it. Wizards are on a whole different level than force users, superior in every possible way.

It's 20 on 20, dude, Jedi have faced far greater numbers and their precog didn't insta-fail. So why is it going to just fail now?

Answer:Because you desperately need it to so your boy-wizard can win.

Originally posted by Robtard
It's 20 on 20, dude, Jedi have faced far greater numbers and their precog didn't insta-fail. So why is it going to just fail now?

Answer:Because you desperately need it to so your boy-wizard can win. Could those greater numbers do the things that the wizards can do? Nope.

The force users faced slow moving droids with shit aim. Got pwned to, saved by the Clones.

Answer, as stated above: Wizards are on a whole different level than force users, superior in every possible way.

Okay, you've convinced me, Force-precog isn't useful in a fight, Force-choke is nothing much and people can do anything they like while at the receiving end of Force-lightning.

Going to be funny when you're in a 'Jedi Vs Anything except Harry Potter' thread and suddenly those Force abilities you downplay into shit suddenly are the end-all; be-all. Good times.

Originally posted by Robtard
Okay, you've convinced me, Force-precog isn't useful in a fight, Force-choke is nothing much and people can do anything they like while at the receiving end of Force-lightning.

Going to be funny when you're in a 'Jedi Vs Anything except Harry Potter' thread and suddenly those Force abilities you downplay into shit suddenly are the end-all; be-all. Good times. No, force precog is indeed a valuable weapon, it's just that here it is next to useless. With all the shit going on around them, the force users cannot possibly focus on it all at once. They will fall to fiendfyre, a death spell, or one of the other many attacks that the wizards have to offer.

Apparition allows the wizards to teleport anywhere they want at any time. In a force pull, push or choke, the wizard merely apparates away. Force lightning? Could be a slight problem, but if Sidious has a wizard in force lightning, he leaves himself open for fiendfyre or a death spell.

Just accept that HP wizard powers and HP wizards in general are more than the best force users can handle.

*Sigh*

Jedi form a ring around Vader who starts crushing throats or heads as quickly as he can. The rest protect him with their lives, leaping in front of spells if they have too (seeing as morals are off). Foresight and prep have him know which wizard to target first so Dumbles and Voldemort die inside of the first second. The rest fall pretty easily. I must say your strange obsession to prove that HP magic>the Force is pretty funny, particularily when if all bets were off the Force would rape so hard its sad.

Other than that:

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
im not touching this debate with a ten foot pole

Originally posted by Nephthys
*Sigh*

Jedi form a ring around Vader who starts crushing throats or heads as quickly as he can. The rest protect him with their lives, leaping in front of spells if they have too (seeing as morals are off). Foresight and prep have him know which wizard to target first so Dumbles and Voldemort die inside of the first second. The rest fall pretty easily. I must say your strange obsession to prove that HP magic>the Force is pretty funny, particularily when if all bets were off the Force would rape so hard its sad.

Other than that:

And as the Jedi/Sith drop, one by one, Vader will be exposed. He will die. Just like the rest.

How exactly do Dumbledore and Voldemort fall first? Said foresight and prep works way in the wizards favor. The wizards, after all, can apparate away when attacked.

So Vader let's loose with force crush. The force users surround him, defending him. They will have to deal with fiendfyre, death spells, deadly potions being dropped from above, their comrades being frozen where they stand (Aresto Momentum, incarcerous and Petrificus Totalus), Being blown hundreds of feet into the air and dropping to the pavement (levicorpus), being blown to bits by Reducto, being tortured by crucio, impedimenta and imperio, engorgio, prisoners being turned on them, shield charms, sectumsempra (basically a sword that can attack from hundreds of feet away), apparating and half apparating wizards, and Lord knows what else.

On a side note, why wasn't Sidious crushed by the force crush? Careful on this one, mind your answer.

Dumbledore and Voldemort can solo here.

The battle starts, they both apparate away. Voldemort reappears hundreds of feet away, casts fiendfyre, apparates away.

Dumbledore reappears, casts more fiendfyre, apparates away.

Voldemort reappears, casts MORE fiendfyre, then apparates away.

Dumbledore reappears, casts Petrificus totalus on a force user, apparates away.

Voldemort reappears, death spells said force user, apparates away.

Shower, rinse, repeat. The wizards will always be hundreds of feet away, and IF they are caught in a force attack, they simply apparate away.

The novel says that that's actually what he was doing: trying to kill Sidious for basically ruining his life. But Sidious is just so much stronger than him that it was like pissing in the wind. I suppose to translate it onto the screen that would be the part where everything starts humming. When he failed he just started cushing stuff.

Um....No. Sidious, for all his power, is flesh and bone. He is injured just as easily as you and I.

It can be translated only two ways:

The force crush is a targeted attack, or it does not work on humans.

Yes, and Sidious obviously has no idea of how to counter Force attacks.

ugh3

Look, here it is:

2xQQm_4FdEc

Sidious was unharmed. The bed Vader was on was unharmed. Why didn't the building fold, crumble and collapse? The only possible answer is because Vader targeted and force crushed what he chose to, what was in his line of sight. If you watch closely, all that is destroyed is to his left, to his right, and in front of him.

Sidious? Only two reasons he wasn't crushed. One, Vader chose not to target him. Or two, he was able to force block it somehow.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes, and Sidious obviously has no idea of how to counter Force attacks.

ugh3 Hahahahahahahaa!!!

But the question remains, why wasn't the building destroyed? Why were the items destroyed only to Vaders left, right and in front of him? Look in the background, there is a panel with red lights, and the overhead lights, why were they not destroyed? And the floor lights? Why were they not destroyed?

Its the second one. And of course he has to target it. Its not like a wave of destruction; thats Force Wave. But thanks to his extra-sensory powers he doesn't have to look at what he targets or even be that close.

I see. Speculating, but OK. And when a wizard apparates from point A (where Vader targets initially) and reappears at point B (500 feet and behind Vader, 50 stories up ), you think he can redirect it before he is spelled?

And Vader, having the superior reactions, will crush Dumbledore and Voldemorts necks before they manage to apparate. In the scene it takes less than a second (around a third) to crush steel. Make of that what you will but still:

Originally posted by Nephthys
And Vader, having the superior reactions, will crush Dumbledore and Voldemorts necks before they manage to apparate. In the scene it takes less than a second (around a third) to crush steel. Make of that what you will but still: This all relies on his precog, to sense where they will reappear. But, as I have proven, precog is shit here. Too much going on around Vader to focus on where a wizard will apparate to. Takes even less time to apparate, like a microsecond. If Vader focuses completely on Voldemort and where Voldemort will reappear, he's toast, literally, fiendfyre will roast him.


Another thing. fawkes the Phoenix has tears that can heal wounds FTW, and Dumbledore can summon him any time he wishes.

RJ, you basically try your damndest to make the side you want to win unbeatable.....shows how low you go to get a victory.

Originally posted by KingD19
RJ, you basically try your damndest to make the side you want to win unbeatable.....shows how low you go to get a victory.

Really now? I took 20 badass wizards, 20 badass force users, placed them on neutral ground, gave them their powers and abilities.

I then countered any attack the Force users have with wizard powers.

Force pull, Force choke, Force push and Force lightning? All countered and escaped by Apparating.

Jedi precog? With everything happening at once, it's shot to shit.

Saber attacks? The wizards aren't fools, they won't go toe to toe with the force users, they'll get diced to bits.


Now, having said all that, what have I done wrong, really?

It's kinda sad if you're blindly oblivious to what you're doing.

Originally posted by KingD19
It's kinda sad if you're blindly oblivious to what you're doing. Again, what am I really doing? No one has the advantage at the start of the fight. Equal number of combatants. Neutral ground. Equal knowledge of each other. Powers, weapons and abilities from the movies.

Spell it out for us?

You. Are. Obssessed. With. Proving. That. HP Magic. Is. Better. Than. The. Force. And. Thats. Pretty. Damn. Sad.

Is that spelled out enough for you?

Originally posted by Nephthys
You. Are. Obssessed. With. Proving. That. HP Magic. Is. Better. Than. The. Force. And. Thats. Pretty. Damn. Sad.

Is that spelled out enough for you? No more obsessed with sadako and Robtard are with McClane, you gonna condemn them to?

People.here.are.obsessed.with.thinking.harry.potter.wizards.are.only.a. bunch.of.fruity.bastards.waving.sticks.in.the.air.

I put an end to all that.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No, force precog is indeed a valuable weapon, it's just that here it is next to useless. With all the shit going on around them, the force users cannot possibly focus on it all at once. They will fall to fiendfyre, a death spell, or one of the other many attacks that the wizards have to offer.

Apparition allows the wizards to teleport anywhere they want at any time. In a force pull, push or choke, the wizard merely apparates away. Force lightning? Could be a slight problem, but if Sidious has a wizard in force lightning, he leaves himself open for fiendfyre or a death spell.

Just accept that HP wizard powers and HP wizards in general are more than the best force users can handle.

Except you're ignoring it's 20 on 20, or 1 on 1. Each Jedi need only focus and kick the shit out of one (or possible a few) wizard. Overwhelmed here? No.

You imagine the wizards, who are all basically human I might add, will be casting spells, while flying, teleporting and "dropping potions from the sky" at some sort of insanely impossible speed where the Jedi's/Sith's precog won't function and somehow, all their Force-powers are "useless", by your account.

This is of course ridiculous going from what we see in the films. But you're a hopeless Harry Potter fanboy, so it's futile debating with you when boy-Potter is concerned. Notice how you stipulated that Potter has his cloak of invisible, telling how you must have him survive. Wizards that can't TP, well, they must have their little broomsticks, all very telling.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No more obsessed with sadako and Robtard are with McClane, you gonna condemn them to?

Cept that's purely for shits and giggles, been told to you many a time. You're Potter obsessed, bro.

Originally posted by Robtard
Except you're ignoring it's 20 on 20, or 1 on 1. Each Jedi need only focus and kick the shit out of one (or possible a few) wizard.

You imagine the wizards, who are all basically human and will be casting spells, while flying, teleporting and "dropping potions from the sky" at some sort of insanely possible speed where the Jedi's/Sith's precog won't function.

This is of course ridiculous going from what we see in the films. But you're a hopeless Harry Potter fanboy, so it's futile debating with you when boy-Potter is concerned. Notice how you stipulated that Potter has his cloak of invisible, telling how you must have him survive.

You just said it, it's 20 on 20, a TEAM effort, dude. One on one tactics fail here, miserably.

Yeah, and the Jedi are basically human too. Point? I IMAGINE the wizards will be flying, APPARATING, and casting spells? How am I IMAGINING this? This is what they do, man. And yes, apparating= insanely possible speed.

What trumps the precog is the AMOUNT of activity going on, the NUMBER of threats/attacks the wizard can produce, all at once. If a force user is focusing on force blocking a wall of fiendfyre, then how are they gonna block a death spell?

The force users have nothing here, dude, unless the wizards do one of the following:

1. Choose not to apparate.

2. Go toe to toe with them.

And as for Harry's cloak, why wouldn't he have it? With 30 minutes prep tim, if YOU were Potter, wouldn't you have it as the battle begins?


Speaking of fiendfyre, try this on for size. Voldemort and his death eaters produce a fiendfyre so large that it surrounds the force users, covers any possible retreat. At that point, it's like herding cattle, or shooting fish in a barrel. And IF a force user decides to stop force blocking the fiendfyre and attack the wizards, the force user is burnt alive.

No counter for that, yeah......

Originally posted by Robtard
Cept that's purely for shits and giggles, been told to you many a time. You're Potter obsessed, bro. No, not "Potter obsessed", not even close.

Just tickles me that you and others view HP wizards as shit. Now that I have proven, without a doubt, that they are far more powerful than SW force users, you and the others don't like it. You'd rather ***** and moan about this thread (which is evenly matched as far as the conditions go) than admit that you are wrong.

Remember a while back when you admitted to me you have problems conceding? This is one of those times.

Your whole argument relies on the wizards not having to defend at all and basically having carte blanche to do anything they like; taking as long as they need. Which of course is ridiculous.

You've proven nothing, only further demonstrated your ability to gimp and fully cememted your Potter fanboyism in us all.

Except that they've never used this tactic in battle before. I suppose they have used the bizzare half-apparating thing in OOTP, but they can't attack in it anyway and a good Force push'll scatter them.



Twenty people are not enough to overwhelm team 2. Look at Zett whatshisface, able to deal with autofire from like a dozen troopers at once, alot faster than wizards can cast, and he was a Padawan and alone. Plus this was at a time when Sidious was actively clouding the Jedi's ability to use the Force, which he won't be doing here. All of their abilities will be better than they were in the movies.



Nah, Fiendfyre takes too long to cast. Vader will **** them up before itsfully materialised.

Plus you script too much.

Originally posted by Robtard
Your whole argument relies on the wizards not having to defend at all and basically having carte blanche to do anything they like and take as long as they need. Which of course is ridiculous.

You've proven nothing, only further demonstrated your ability to gimp and fully cememted your Potter fanboyism in us all.


It took Bellatrix and Fenrir less than a second, half a second more like, when attacking the burrow

With the wizards ability to be everywhere, to apparate from one side of NY to the other, to Hogwarts, to Texas, then back to NY, all in the blink of an eye, yeah, their necessity to defend is greatly lowered. The force users will have to sense them, where they are, then focus their force attack on them. In the time it takes the force user to do that, the wizards can apparate 2 or 3 times.


Just admit it, Rob, I've ruined your "HP is gay and HP wizards suck" party, and now you're moping about it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Except that they've never used this tactic in battle before. I suppose they have used the bizzare half-apparating thing in OOTP, but they can't attack in it anyway and a good Force push'll scatter them. Yes, they can attack while half apparating. Bellatrix and Fenrir did it in the attack on the burrow.



There were MAYBE six or seven troopers, dude. Also, they could not apparate, they could not produce fiendfyre. One death eater would have ended them in seconds.





haermm The precog is shot to shit here, dude, and fiendfyre was produced instantly by Bellatrix and Fenrir.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
It took Bellatrix and Fenrir less than a second, half a second more like, when attacking the burrow

With the wizards ability to be everywhere, to apparate from one side of NY to the other, to Hogwarts, to Texas, then back to NY, all in the blink of an eye, yeah, their necessity to defend is greatly lowered. The force users will have to sense them, where they are, then focus their force attack on them. In the time it takes the force user to do that, the wizards can apparate 2 or 3 times.


Just admit it, Rob, I've ruined your "HP is gay and HP wizards suck" party, and now you're moping about it.

Precog, the Jedi/Sith would sense their re-appearance and attack beforehand and they'd be ready to attack first. This is of course going that the Jedi didn't attack before the wizard tried to teleport. I know, I know, you've deemed Force-precog "useless" now.

HP is lame, correct. Wizards don't suck, they're fairly powerful combatants, but they fail here.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
haermm The precog is shot to shit here, dude, and fiendfyre was produced instantly by Bellatrix and Fenrir.

Like I said, it's going to be funny when in a Jedi Vs Anything except Potter thread, precog will suddenly be the end-game power you're touting.

On the flip-side, the wizards will have to take in their surroundings, pick a spot they'd like to apparate too and then apparate, all while possibly having to defend themselves and make sure they know whats going on arround them. By the time they do that (having inferior reactions and speed and lacking precog), they'll most likely be dead.

And btw, Jedi don't conscously act and react, they let the Force flow through them and guide them through the actions. Its all there in the movies.

Here, the attack on the Burrow:


-D8VI6l6t-8

Fiendfyre erupts from the sky, controlled by Bellatrix and Fenrir, who are both half apparating.

Also, note the :15 mark of this vid:

mys22wJQWU0

Fenrir and Bellatrix, while half apparating, crash through the burrow and cast fiendfyre inside it. The crash through one wall at :15, the burrow erupts in flames, and they are out the other side before the timer reaches :16.

Yeah, instantly.

Originally posted by Robtard
Precog, the Jedi/Sith would sense their re-appearance and attack beforehand and they'd be ready to attack first. This is of course going that the Jedi didn't attack before the wizard tried to teleport. I know, I know, you've deemed Force-precog "useless" now.

HP is lame, correct. Wizards don't suck, they're fairly powerful combatants, but they fail here.

So what if the Jedi are ready? They won't know what's what once the shit hits the fan. They are gonna be dealing with a wall of fiendfyre surrounding them, they are gonna be dealing with wizards EVERYWHERE at once, half apparaters casting more fiendfyre comets at them, death spells, not to mention trying to avoid being immobilized, tied up, or slowed down as if they were in a jar of molasses. Vaders precog was shot to shit by a teenage boy in an X Wing, dude. It will be far worse here, for all force users involved.

Originally posted by Nephthys
On the flip-side, the wizards will have to take in their surroundings, pick a spot they'd like to apparate too and then apparate, all while possibly having to defend themselves and make sure they know whats going on arround them. By the time they do that (having inferior reactions and speed and lacking precog), they'll most likely be dead.

And btw, Jedi don't conscously act and react, they let the Force flow through them and guide them through the actions. Its all there in the movies. The wizards need only think here they want to go, then they go, it's instant.

Yeah, the Jedi do that, and they rely greatly on precog. Prove to me, right here, right now, that with al of the following going on, that their precog is reliable:

They are gonna be dealing with a wall of fiendfyre surrounding them, they are gonna be dealing with wizards EVERYWHERE at once, half apparaters casting more fiendfyre comets at them, death spells, not to mention trying to avoid being immobilized, tied up, or slowed down as if they were in a jar of molasses. Vaders precog was shot to shit by a teenage boy in an X Wing, dude. It will be far worse here, for all force users involved.

Go ahead, amuse me.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yes, they can attack while half apparating. Bellatrix and Fenrir did it in the attack on the burrow.

No they didn't. The attack came from off-screen. We have no idea who cast it or how long it took to cast.



Lol what? A single clone trooper from that squad would own the shit out of any death eater. Heck, probably Voldemort. They don't have the capabilities to deal with gun or repeater fire.




No it isn't, its stronger than ever. Again, Bullshit. It comes from off-screen.

edit: Oh, thats what you were talking about. Again bullshit. Prove that was a spell.

Here, explain why, at 4:14, Vader did not sense the Falcon. Also, why, at 4:20, did he not sense the other TIE barreling towards him?

xIpjgF6SWiU

His reaction, "WHAT!!!", says it all. He was focusing on Luke, that's why his precog failed initially. Then, while surprised at the sudden attack, his precog failed to sense the TIE.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No they didn't. The attack came from off-screen. We have no idea who cast it or how long it took to cast. Aaaaaahahahahaha denial much? Who cast it? BTW, at the end of the second vid we can SEE them enter the burrow, cast fiendfyre, and exit the other side.



And the Clones would be able to track a death eater apparating. Riiiiiiiiiiight......AND fight fiendfyre, that can be cast from hundreds of feet above them. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

"A Single clone can take Voldemort" LOL of the decade, bro.




Stronger than ever? Prove that.

Dude, it is RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE of the screen. They fly into the burrow, it bursts into flames, then they fly out the other side.

Prove it was a spell? What, you think Bellatrix accio'd a Navy SEAL armed with a flamethrower? Grasp the obvious.

It's as if RJ is arguing that it will be all 20 wizards on each Jedi or Sith individually. 'Overwhelmed and precog won't work!'

Granted, that would be a much more fair fight.

Originally posted by Robtard
It's as if RJ is arguing that it will be all 20 wizards on each Jedi or Sith individually. 'Overwhelmed and precog won't work!'

Granted, that would be a much more fair fight. No, I am arguing that it will be a team effort on both parts. I am arguing that with all the shit going on at once, the precog will be ineffective. Like a pinball machine going TILT.

BTW, it took one boy in an X Wing to ruin Vaders precog

For the record, this:

(Antonin Dolohov's Curse)
Description: This curse causes serious internal injury, but shows no external symptoms. It is described as cast with "a slashing motion", sending out a streak of purple flames. It is not nonverbal, though Harry could not hear it because Hermione had used the silencing charm Silencio on Dolohov before.

I'm not sure if it was actually shown in a movie, but the rest were.

Err, possibly becuase its thousands, maybe even millions of kilometers away. Or maybe becuase he was totally focused on Luke and the Falcon came out of ****in' nowhere.



He was stunned by the Falcon coming out of nowhere and then his own team-mate tagged him. He is human you know. Plus sometimes characters act stupidly for the sake of plot.

Here's another scene for you:

FUsltuNO6l8

Notice how he drives in the dark at 1.40. Did you know that tat's becuase all orce-sensitives subconsciously use precog? Also notice how he's the first human with the reactions to podrace ever. When he's 10(ish).





You are so full of shit its amazing you don't pee brown. You really believe that this is whats going to happen don't you? You're really that dellusional?

OK then. No, there won't be a 'wall of fiendfyre', in all likelyhood the spell will never get off the ground. Even if it did then that would just make it more difficult for teh wizards to aim spells at them. No they won't, wizards have NEVER used apparition in a combat scenario or to the degree of skill that you give them. No they won't. You knwo that the Jedi aren't just going to sit there and take it right? You do realise also that Vader can kill about 1 wizard every 1-2 seconds? Thats Luke frickin' Skywalker in an X-Wing you mean. Big difference.



We've had this discussion before. No you don't. You see explosions, not fiendfyre.



Apparating is not as good as you wank it to be. A single shot moves faster, can be used faster and has longer range than your vaunted Fiendfyre.



Voldemort does not have bullet-time reactions. The movies would be alot shorter if one person just aimed a damn gun at him and pulled the trigger.



The darkside clouds the Jedi's powers including precog throughout the movies, directly performed by Sidious in some way. With him on their side this is no longer a factor.



I don't want to have this discussion again. I didn't even want to post in this f'ing topic btw. Think yourself lucky you've got me to post this much.


edit: Its late, so I excuse my shitty spelling.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No, I am arguing that it will be a team effort on both parts. I am arguing that with all the shit going on at once, the precog will be ineffective. Like a pinball machine going TILT.

BTW, it took one boy in an X Wing to ruin Vaders precog

Because precog fails more times than it works, obviously, how stupid of me.

Just curious how you see this playing out, after all the Jedi/Sith are dead, which of this wizards from your list is still standing?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Err, possibly becuase its thousands, maybe even millions of kilometers away. Or maybe becuase he was totally focused on Luke and the Falcon came out of ****in' nowhere.



He was stunned by the Falcon coming out of nowhere and then his own team-mate tagged him. He is human you know. Plus sometimes characters act stupidly for the sake of plot. Wait, I thought the force was EVERYWHERE...I thought Vader did not need to SEE someone to sense them......

Also because he raced the course so often that he knew it like the back of his hand.





No, in all likelihood, the wizards will be apparating around so fast that the force users wont be able to track them. The fiendfyre will be cast with ease, from hundreds of feet away. It will, and I quote, "Hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights."



And what caused the explosions? Molly leave the gas on?

FIENDFYRE.



Apparating is an instantaneous way to travel from point A to B. Thats pretty uber, thats faster than Superman.



Never happen, he'd apparate away and death spell them.



AND a teenager in an X Wing.



Then dont post. Accept that wizards are superior to force users in every imaginable way.

Originally posted by Robtard
Because precog fails more times than it works, obviously, how stupid of me.

Just curious how you see this playing out, after all the Jedi/Sith are dead, which of this wizards from your list is still standing? Honestly?

The non apparaters are the most likely to die. Harry likely survives, Ginny and Hermione? questionable.

Voldy and Dumbles clear for sure.

Probably half the death eaters go down due to being overzealous.

The OOTP members likely all make it.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Accept that wizards are superior to force users in every imaginable way.

No, you're clearly not a rabid Potter fanboy, not you.

Originally posted by Robtard
No, you're clearly not a rabid Potter fanboy, not you.

Can a force user teleport? Nope.

Can a force user kill someone in a millisecond with their powers? Nope.

Can a force user become immortal? Nope.

Can a force user fly? Nope.

Can a force user heal wounds instantly? Nope.

Can a force user possess people? Nope.

ugh3 You're practically trolling now.....



Errm, no. I have no idea what gives you that impression.



Bull. Shit. To explain why thats bullshit, heres a something I made earlier:





Aren't they in a prison? How much room did you give them exactly? Also, no.



Except Superman doesn't have to deal with everything above. Also, prove its instantaneous, your previous links didn't work.



I fail to see reason behind these words. Wth?



Does that include the EU way. Y'know, in which Jedi are so fast they're blurs of light, so fast they appear to have dozens of arms at once, so fast their sheer speed kills nearby stormtroopers. So strong they can tear through steel with their bare hands. So powerful they can disintegrate metal in a millisecond, vaporise flesh, so powerful they can obliterate entire planets, ENTIRE SOLARSYSTEMS. Live for thousands of years. Including that?

If you mean in terms of just the movies then idk, maybe. *shrug*



Its actually 3 seconds..... I counted.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi


Because, you know, a wizard can do anything a force user can do. And better.

Can they effectively wield a lightsabre without cutting off their own noses?

Like I said, Potter fanboyism, but now it's reaching clown-shoe levels.

Originally posted by Robtard
Can they effectively wield a lightsabre without cutting off their own noses?

Like I said, Potter fanboyism, but now it's reaching clown-shoe levels. That's the one exception, this is why I said POWERS.

Everything else? Wizards do better.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
That's the one exception, this is why I said POWERS.

Everything else? Wizards do better.


Um, no. You said a wizard is "superior in every imaginable way" and " a wizard can do anything a force user can do. And better."

Have fun trolling, I'm out.

coughRogue Jedicough

Edit: That picture is perfect....

Edit2: coughNo offence meantcough.

haermm They all wear weird looking robes, if that means anything.

Originally posted by Nephthys
coughRogue Jedicough

Edit: That picture is perfect....

Edit2: coughNo offence meantcough. None taken, you don't have what it takes to offend me.

I'm not trolling. Big difference between pwning and trolling.

The difference, only in your mind is.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The difference, only in your mind is. In my mind, in my posts, in the screen feats I used, in the comparison between Wizard powers and Jedi/Sith powers.

Aaaaaahahahaaha

0e1WR0X7M7A

Instant my ass. The Force doesn't need any words to make it work, a wave of a finger and the wizards disarmed. And then its rapein' time. excellent

Watch the Half Blood Prince. It's instant when they are full apparating. When half apparating, they land in a cloud of smoke.

Fred and George Weasley apparated instantly in OOTP.

A mere thought and the wizard can go anywhere. Anywhere at all. Cant disarm someone if you cant see them. Besides, if they are disarmed, a simple Accio spell rearms them.

They appear instantly, we don't know they disappear instantly. In fact if this vids any proof, they don't:

VtX62jjlVRc

Real-time one is here at 1.50: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDsp_hvJ7NA We only have a very strange, surreal image of this that is next to useless for speed, and frankly it really doesn't look like a process that wizards can rapid fire. Waaay too disorientating. And they can't go anywhere, they have to know where they're going first and they don't have extra-sensory means of perspective to utilise and they haven't displayed Nightcrawler-esque abilities and skill to rapid-port either..

Accio can't be used without a wand.

Originally posted by Nephthys
They appear instantly, we don't know they disappear instantly. In fact if this vids any proof, they don't:

VtX62jjlVRc

Real-time one is here at 1.50: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDsp_hvJ7NA We only have a very strange, surreal image of this that is next to useless for speed, and frankly it really doesn't look like a process that wizards can rapid fire. Waaay too disorientating. And they can't go anywhere, they have to know where they're going first and they don't have extra-sensory means of perspective to utilise.

Accio can't be used without a wand.

I think you misunderstood me, I was talking about the travel time between point A and point B being instant.

With 30 minutes prep time, the wizards will be able to get a lay of the land and apparate anywhere they wish. Even with no prep time, they look at where they wanna go, think it, then POOF they are gone.

And apparating varied in the HP movies, sometimes the wizard was gone like that, sometimes it took half a second. I am using high end feats here.

Still, half a second to be in one place, then another, anywhere in the world, that's more than enough. A force user catches a wizard in a force pull from twenty or so feet away, it takes a few seconds to actually pull them over. The wizard will be long gone before that. Same with force choke, it takes at least 15ish seconds to kill. Same with force lightning, it would take a least a minute or so to kill a wizard with it. Force choke/lightning is never shown killing in an instant, or even a few seconds, it takes time.

Rapid apparating is not necessary, why would the wizards need it? With all of them apparating all over, all at once, it certainly will appear as if they are rapid porting.

This isn't fair. I'm sure all of those Potter characters had feats. Mace is the second most powerful Jedi but all we see him do is deflect blaster bolts, Palpatine's lightning, force pull his lightsaber, and survive a pretty high fall. Based on actual Force feats, AOTC Anakin is arguably more impressive.

However, in the EU, characters like Mace and OT Vader are uberly powerful in the Force.

Half of that list doesn't have any Force feats on film, much less seeing them in action.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Same with force choke, it takes at least 15ish seconds to kill.

Same with force lightning, it would take a least a minute or so to kill a wizard with it. Force choke/lightning is never shown killing in an instant, or even a few seconds, it takes time.


Didn't Luke choke-out the two pig guards in RoTJ in a couple of seconds.

Wizards can cast spells while they're writhing in pain?

Yeah, but that was Luke.

Yeah. But they won't be writhing in pain, they'll be cackling as they apparate away for the lulz.

App-a-rate. Come on, say it with me. Aaaaaaaa-ppaaaaaaaa-raaaaaate.

Here, check it out:

fKrDF0fgiJ4

At 2:04, the death eaters are half apparating, and they crash right through the thick ass stone wall that hides Diagon alley. How did they do that? Was it brute force, or did they spell the wall while flying? Or are they protected somehow while half apparating?

Also, look from 1:46 to 2:09. See how fast they are? And nimble? They're travelling easily as fast as a fighter jet, and they can turn on a dime. You think a force user is gonna be able to track them and catch them in a force attack? Think again.

And at 2:19, Fenrir and the other two death eaters are standing there, then FOOM they are off, instantly. Hundreds of feet in the air in a second or two.

Now, check the end, the bridge scene. The death eaters are flying so fast and producing such force that the bridge twists and collapses as they circle it.

These are three of Voldemorts lieutenants, imagine what he and Dumbledore can do, or Bellatrix.

So, the battle begins, the death eaters, Voldemort, Dumbledore and the OOTP members begin half apparating like that. Nice, safe money is on the wizards.

Video disabled.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKrDF0fgiJ4

Ah yes, That scene.



First off its a single layer of brick, so it isn't 'thick-ass', secondly its a fake, magically fake, stone wall, so we have no idea what properties it actually has and thirdly..... something. I can't think of a third thing. But anyway its been long established that half-apparating does weird things to inanimate objects.



.... No. They're kind of fast I guess, like maybe car fast, but not fighter jet fast. Certainly not as fast as blaster bolts which jedi track with a certain degree of ease.



You mean, like, 30 feet, right?



They're not flying that fast. I honestly have no idea what the **** is going on with that scene. They're certainly not casting spells and they aren't even touching the damn thing. My guess: Someone else did it. *shrug*

Now I notice that you didn't mention teh part when they crash into the store. Notice how much it resembles another scene? Say... The attack on the burrow. It seems pretty logical in lieu of that scene that we can assume that instead of magic the half-apparating forms just have some screwy ways of affecting physics, like setting the occasional thing on fire when they crash into it at high-speeds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhePayXx-zg&feature=related As seen here at 0.40 something, multiple of them smack right into the kids and make them stumble slightly. This is completely different from what they do to inanimate objects so I think its a pretty safe assumption to say that they have a muuuch lower effect on humans that on objects, at least enough that theres no risk that they'll actually be able to harm team 2.

Also, neither Dumbledore nor Voldemort have half-apparated on screen.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ah yes, That scene.



First off its a single layer of brick, so it isn't 'thick-ass', secondly its a fake, magically fake, stone wall, so we have no idea what properties it actually has and thirdly..... something. I can't think of a third thing. But anyway its been long established that half-apparating does weird things to inanimate objects. It's a brick wall, dude, they crashed through it and took no damage. Magic or not, it's a brick wall. If you walk up to it and slam your fist into it, your hand breaks.



They are going easily 200-300 mph, man.



Mo, I mean like 100ish feet.



crylaugh

Wow, you really are out of gas.

Nice, but they are merely buzzing Harry and the others and flying between them. They are not hitting them dead on.


Your posts seem to be full of guessing and speculating. I have three words for you:

HIGH END FEATS

Also, you telling me that the two most powerful wizards in the world cannot half apparate, when wizards with a fraction of their power can? haermm Who do you think TAUGHT the death eaters to half apparate, genius?

Originally posted by Nephthys


I can't think of a third thing. But anyway its been long established that half-apparating does weird things to inanimate objects.



.. I guess, .


I honestly have no idea what the **** is going on with that scene.

My guess: Someone else did it. *shrug*







. Aaaaaaaaaaahahahaha haermm

Wow, way to keep it classy RJ. I'm going to bed right now, but you keep on stroking your pussy ego nice and plump till I get back.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wow, way to keep it classy RJ. I'm going to bed right now, but you keep on stroking your pussy ego nice and plump till I get back. It's got nothing to do with being classy, it just struck me funny, that's all.

With all your guessing and speculating, ignoring screen feats and what not, what else am I supposed to do? It's laughable.



Again, brick wall. It was either brute force or the death eaters spelling on the fly. Pick one.

Me? Spelling. After all, they cats fiendfyre on the fly. So yeah, wizards can half apparate AND cast spells.


"Keep on stroking your ego"....Translation: "Keep on burying any arguments for the force users."

I'll lay this out one more time.

The force users have the following ways of attacking the wizards:

1. Force pull/push. Easily escaped by apparating.

2. Force choke. Easily escaped by apparating.

3. Force lightning. Easily escaped by apparating. Besides, the wizards will never get close enough for the force users to use this.

4. Force crush. Easily escaped by apparating. Besides, if we go by screen feats, Vader can only force crush what is in front of him, and to his left and right, and he must target his attacks. Also, he can force crush no farther than he was shown doing. 10 feet radius, if that much.

5. Saber attack. The wizards won't ever be this close.


Force attacks can only range as far as what we see onscreen. Never, not ever, is a force attack shown with a range of hundreds of feet (which is a distance the wizards can easily attack from, even far beyond that.). Not counting Vaders force choking Ozzel from across the galaxy.



Now, again, the precog. If Vaders precog was shot in ANH when he was focusing on Luke, when Han surprised him, it will be shot here, what with all that will be going on.






In the end, the force users have nothing that the wizard cannot counter easily.



Prove me wrong on these facts.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No more obsessed with sadako and Robtard are with McClane, you gonna condemn them to?

People.here.are.obsessed.with.thinking.harry.potter.wizards.are.only.a. bunch.of.fruity.bastards.waving.sticks.in.the.air.

I put an end to all that.









LOLZ RJ Big massive humongous LOLZ


http://www.willersproducts.co.uk/images/limages/C%20gimp.jpg



Totally different thing. Realism isn't rejected in those debates (except, typically, by you of course.)

Yes. Thats because they are.

No you didn't. You couldnt put an end to your own dick.
But you have committed debate cred suicide though.

http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/m4/jul2009/2/0/news-image-2-481761701.jpg










I've not seen an embarrassing display of weirdly childish behavior like this from an adult member of the Butthurtius-Erectus species before.










































Oh. Wait.... Yes....we have.

Hmmmmmm lets see...
McClane Vs Riggs = McClane Wins despite you trying many gimpages
Side Swipe vs Bumblebee = SS loses even even massive gimping
Hogwarts Vs 501st = HP loses even with gimping.
Vader Vs Harry Potter = Hp Loses even with gimping.
And a Harry Potter Versus the force Army thread....?

I wonder what the out come of this'll be.. there may be a pattern forming.

http://i43.tinypic.com/1zn4ok9.jpg

This ol' nugget again...Fun times it was...

http://thebooksmugglers.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/darth-vader-reading-harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows.jpg

Darth knows all.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yeah, but that was Luke.

Yeah. But they won't be writhing in pain, they'll be cackling as they apparate away for the lulz.

App-a-rate. Come on, say it with me. Aaaaaaaa-ppaaaaaaaa-raaaaaate.

As per YOUR rules here, if one Jedi can do it, they all can, as Force-choke is just another basic application of the Force.

So you still insist that the wizards are faster than both Force-precog and the speed of lightning. Delusional, you are, the fanboyism is strong in this one.

Originally posted by Robtard
As per YOUR rules here, if one Jedi can do it, they all can, as Force-choke is just another basic application of the Force.

So you still insist that the wizards are faster than both Force-precog and the speed of lightning. Delusional, you are, the fanboyism is strong in this one.

Force choke is not a basic application of the force, Rob, you know better. Basic applications of the force are applications taught to younglings and padawans. Force pull and push, stuff like that. You aren't gonna give them all force choke now. Try that shit and I'll bring the dementors into the fray.


I insist that the wizards can apparate faster than the force users can track and attack, that's all.

It's all a version of telekinesis, instead of "wrapping" the Force around an object to move it, it's applied to someone's throat. Luke did it; he had incomplete training. As per YOUR rules, it would be a basic power. But you'll gimp the Jedi here, because it doesn't help your little wizards. Nothing new.

Despite the movies showing you they can't, and that Force-precog allows the Force user to "see things right before they happen", as told by Qui Gon Jin and seen with Jedi doing a great job at blocking multiple blaster fire. Yet somehow in your mind, a wizard will teleport, attack and teleport, all in less than a second.

Ride that gimp-horse into the ground, boy.

Sidious uses force storm and kills them all. None of them can use their powers during force storm as none of them were seen, on screen, being able to use their magic powers while being electrocuted, severely.


I think I just won the threads, hands down.

Can you please take that "not" out of your profile, RJ? You clearly are.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Force choke is not a basic application of the force, Rob, you know better. Basic applications of the force are applications taught to younglings and padawans. Force pull and push, stuff like that. You aren't gonna give them all force choke now. Try that shit and I'll bring the dementors into the fray.


Tell that to the Sith who train their padawans with the Dark Side of the Force.

I'm beginning to think, RJ, that you should ask Raz to change your name to Rogue Wizard. awesome


"Bong".

Originally posted by Impediment
Tell that to the Sith who train their padawans with the Dark Side of the Force.

I'm beginning to think, RJ, that you should ask Raz to change your name to Rogue Wizard. awesome


"Bong". Oh please, who knows if any of us are still alive when he's next online.

Originally posted by Impediment

I'm beginning to think, RJ, that you should ask Raz to change your name to Rogue Wizard. awesome


I support this.

Originally posted by Robtard
It's all a version of telekinesis, instead of "wrapping" the Force around an object to move it, it's applied to someone's throat. Luke did it; he had incomplete training. As per YOUR rules, it would be a basic power. But you'll gimp the Jedi here, because it doesn't help your little wizards. Nothing new.

Despite the movies showing you they can't, and that Force-precog allows the Force user to "see things right before they happen", as told by Qui Gon Jin and seen with Jedi doing a great job at blocking multiple blaster fire. Yet somehow in your mind, a wizard will teleport, attack and teleport, all in less than a second.

Ride that gimp-horse into the ground, boy. So you're gonna take my OP rules and twist them around as you like?


OK then. All the wizards here can apparate, all can cast fiendfyre, all have seven hocruxes, all can cast protego horrriblis. Oh yeah, they can all summon the Dementors.


Suck on that, *****.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So you're gonna take my OP rules and twist them around as you like?


OK then. All the wizards here can apparate, all can cast fiendfyre, all have seven hocruxes, all can cast protego horrriblis. Oh yeah, they can all summon the Dementors.


Suck on that, *****.

No. They won't.

You laid the ground rules in the first page.

No changing them now. You know better.

All shit talk is usual: friendly and customary.

Any complaints can be listed here.

Just another official post backing the 'Rogue Wizard' name change.



Jedi/Sith still win, judging by reading through his thread.

Everything has been defended on the SW side (Pretty much everyone), and the HP side and RJ's side (RJ) has even been proven wrong about HP facts by HP fans.

You guys can blow each other all day, you can hate away on Harry Potter, but this:




Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I'll lay this out one more time.

The force users have the following ways of attacking the wizards:

1. Force pull/push. Easily escaped by apparating.

2. Force choke. Easily escaped by apparating.

3. Force lightning. Easily escaped by apparating. Besides, the wizards will never get close enough for the force users to use this.

4. Force crush. Easily escaped by apparating. Besides, if we go by screen feats, Vader can only force crush what is in front of him, and to his left and right, and he must target his attacks. Also, he can force crush no farther than he was shown doing. 10 feet radius, if that much.

5. Saber attack. The wizards won't ever be this close.


Force attacks can only range as far as what we see onscreen. Never, not ever, is a force attack shown with a range of hundreds of feet (which is a distance the wizards can easily attack from, even far beyond that.). Not counting Vaders force choking Ozzel from across the galaxy.



Now, again, the precog. If Vaders precog was shot in ANH when he was focusing on Luke, when Han surprised him, it will be shot here, what with all that will be going on.






In the end, the force users have nothing that the wizard cannot counter easily.



Prove me wrong on these facts.


Hasn't been countered. Not even close. "RJ is gimping", that's all I am seeing. The only thing I can see that can be interpreted as me gimping is the precog thing. For some God awful reason, you guys think the precog will work flawlessly here. Why? Vader, one of the most powerful force users of all time, his precog was next to useless at the battle of Yavin. Han Solo blitzkrieged his ass and he never saw it coming. And Vader had his attention on one thing, Luke.

Here, the force users will have to deal with a wall of fiendfyre surrounding them, with fiendfyre comets raining down on them, spells coming in from every angle, wizards everywhere at once, with wizards that can apparate away at will when caught in a force attack. If Vaders precog was disrupted by one man, there's literally zero chance of the force users precog here working efficiently.

How am I wrong about this? Screen feats dictate it.

Originally posted by Impediment
No. They won't.

You laid the ground rules in the first page.

No changing them now. You know better.

All shit talk is usual: friendly and customary.

Any complaints can be listed here.

THIS is what I said in the OP:

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi


However, if one of the Jedi, for example, were never shown using force push/pull onscreen, they can still use it, because durh it is a basic Jedi power. On the other hand, if one of the wizards is never shown using a simple wizard spell (Protego, for example) they can use it, because again, durh, it is a basic wizard power. the Jedi/Sith/Wizard would not be where they are if they didn't know these simple powers.





See? I mentioned force push and force pull. Now, if you guys are gonna argue that force choke is a basic Jedi/Sith power, WTF? It isn't, that has been established in MANY a thread here.

Is this really where we are now? Saying that Force choke is a basic force user power?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
THIS is what I said in the OP:





See? I mentioned force push and force pull. Now, if you guys are gonna argue that force choke is a basic Jedi/Sith power, WTF? It isn't, that has been established in MANY a thread here.

Is this really where we are now? Saying that Force choke is a basic force user power?

Going by screen feats, yes. You seem to be adhering to EU, methinks.

Force choke is a basic screen feat of Vader.

See MVF Golden Rule.

Ha.....Ha....Ha.

Sir Stutter for the win.

Welll if you gimp, (And we've seen plenty of it in this thread) then it gets commented on... Pretty simple math really.

1) For all you know Push/Pull works fine on it. (If your Magic is in the physical universe, it is affectable by the force - which is a part of everything.)

2) See above answer.

3) See above answer.

4) See above answer

5) Well SOME pieces of them may be close....

Ok force attack that Vader killed his officers with while not even being remotely near them in ESB FTW

Screen feats never showed HP magic having ANY effect on force users.

Vader uses Force Choke in the very first SW movie. /End.

Force Choke works here. See MVF Golden Rule.

The way you post you'd think that the Jedi have never been surrounded on all sides with thousands of droids shooting at them from all at once. Wait, that does seem familiar...

http://dvdmedia.ign.com/dvd/image/ep2clones_14.jpg

You'd also think that Jedi have never been in a war in which thousands of droids and clones are firing at each other complete with tanks and flyers. Hmmm, memory tingling....

http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/c/cd/Attack_of_the_clones_4.jpg

Or a space battle....

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_AzemiK61sUA/S7aWWp7nE5I/AAAAAAAADBo/dTbv2rIDarM/s1600/3+Battle+of+Coruscant.jpg

Or heck, any battle....

http://rpggamer.org/shippics/mygeeto.jpg

You know what I noticed about these scenes, dispite ALOT more going on around them than in your little unrealistic, scripted situation, in more or less every case, not one of those times do Jedi's precogs suddenly go crazy and blank out. Just something I noticed.

edit: Also, I like to go by high end feats.

Originally posted by Impediment
Vader uses Force Choke in the very first SW movie. /End.

Force Choke works here. See MVF Golden Rule. Yeah, did I ever deny that Vader uses force choke?

MVF rules state that we go with what is seen onscreen. A combatant can use ONLY what powers they are shown using. Meaning.......Only Vader and Luke can use force choke, right? And only Sidious and Dooku can use force lightning, right?


I just wanna make sure we are on the same page.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The way you post you'd think that the Jedi have never been surrounded on all sides with thousands of droids shooting at them from all sides. Wait, that does seem familiar...

http://dvdmedia.ign.com/dvd/image/ep2clones_14.jpg

You'd also think that Jedi have never been in a war in which thousands of droids and clones are firing at each other complete with tanks and flyers. Hmmm, memory tingling....

http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/c/cd/Attack_of_the_clones_4.jpg

Or a space battle....

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_AzemiK61sUA/S7aWWp7nE5I/AAAAAAAADBo/dTbv2rIDarM/s1600/3+Battle+of+Coruscant.jpg

Or heck, any battle....

http://rpggamer.org/shippics/mygeeto.jpg

You know what I noticed about these scenes, dispite ALOT more going on around them than in your little unrealistic, scripted situation, in more or less every case, not one of those times do Jedi's precogs suddenly go crazy and blank out. Just something I noticed.

edit: Also, I like to go by high end feats.

Can droids apparate? No. Can droids fly? No. Can droids produce a big ass wall of aware fiendfyre? No.

If the droids as Genosis could do this, the Jedi would have been killed.

That really has nothing to do with what I posted.

And what crappy logic. Are wizards able to rapid fire bolts of plasma? No. Are wizards specifically hard to detect and predict becuase they're droids? No. Are there thousands of them in a complete ring around the Jedi all firing at once. No. See, I can do it too.

Clearly its veeery hard to overwhelm a jedi's precog.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yeah, did I ever deny that Vader uses force choke?

MVF rules state that we go with what is seen onscreen. A combatant can use ONLY what powers they are shown using. Meaning.......Only Vader and Luke can use force choke, right? And only Sidious and Dooku can use force lightning, right?


I just wanna make sure we are on the same page.

We are on the same page, AC. heartbeat

Originally posted by Nephthys
That really has nothing to do with what I posted.

And what crappy logic. Are wizards able to rapid fire bolts of plasma? No. Are wizards specifically hard to detect and predict becuase they're droids? No. Are there thousands of them in a complete ring around the Jedi all firing at once. No. See, I can do it too.

Clearly its veeery hard to overwhelm a jedi's precog.

Thing is, the droids are slow moving, the Jedi always know right where they are.

A wizard? can apparate to anywhere they wish and attack anew. It's impossible to predict from where, there are too many other things to deal with. If a Jedi takes their attention off the fiendfyre for even a second, they're done.

Originally posted by Impediment
We are on the same page, AC. heartbeat


OK then.

What we now have for the force users is this:

Two who can do force lightning. Two who can do force choke. A few who can do force push and pull. A few others who can do nothing more than sit in the council chamber.

Right?

Yeah but the hundreds/thousands of blaster bolts speeding at then aren't exactly slow.






Umm, not it isn't. See Jedi have this thing called precognition that enables them to see the future and even react to it before it even happens. They also have this thing called the Force. Do you remember? That thing that flows through them, guides their actions, hightens their senses, quickens their reactions, their speed, lets them feel the world around them? That thing?

There are twenty of them. Compare that to the thousands of droids firing around them in that arena. Yes, obviously theres just too many things to keep track of.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah but the hundreds/thousands of blaster bolts speeding at then aren't exactly slow.

Umm, not it isn't. See Jedi have this thing called precognition taht enanbles them to see the future and even react to it before it even happens. They also have this thing called the Force. Do you remember? That thing that flows through them, guides their actions, hightens their senses, quickens their reactions, their speed, lets them feel the world around them? That thing?

There are twenty of them. Compare that to the thousands of droids firing around them in that arena. Yes, obviously theres just too many things to keep track of.

You are forgetting how many Jedi were at Geonosis. And how many died.

Again with the precog. You still think it works flawlessly here, when in ANH, Vaders failed?

Padawans. There doesn't seem to be many of those in this thread.

Yes. Becuase this is a completely different situation from ANH. No-ones coming out of nowhere to snipe them from thousands of meters away. The jedi aren't all focused on a single person but are prepared to deal with a team. Completely different.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Padawans. There doesn't seem to be many of those in this thread.

Yes. Becuase this is a completely different situation from ANH. No-ones coming out of nowhere to snipe them from thousands of meters away. The jedi aren't all focused on a single person but are prepared to deal with a team. Completely different.


HA, the force is everywhere, right? If it binds us, surrounds us, why didnt he sense Solo?

Fail.

Becuase he's thousands of miles away in space you twiglet. Becuase he's human, becuase he wasn't listening to it, becuase that was what the Force wanted to happen, becuase he was over confident, etc... Christ, I've explained this to you like 5 f'ing times already.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Becuase he's thousands of miles away in space you twiglet. Becuase he's human, becuase he wasn't listening to it, becuase that was what the Force wanted to happen, becuase he was over confident, etc... Christ, I've explained this to you like 5 f'ing times already. He was right there on Vaders head, man. He had to have come out of hyperspace, get a visual on the death star, figure where Vader is, and plan an attack.

You really are reaching you know. Also, no.

'Precog is useless becuz of 1 time when it didn't work 4 teh sak of plot! I win!'

"The Force senses everything" argument is nil.

F*ck precog and f*ck all of you.

Either adhere the MVF Golden Rule or shut the f*ck up.

Precog was shown, yes.

But not to THAT aspect. IMO.

If you feel I am wrong, I welcome you to PM me.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You really are reaching you know. Also, no.

'Precog is useless becuz of 1 time when it didn't work 4 teh sak of plot! I win!' Hey, plot or no, it happened onscreen, and that's what we have to deal with. Do I think its bullshit? Yeah, but I accept it.

Not one time. There was also right after when the TIE barreled into Vader.

ROTJ, when Luke went apeshit, Vader was surprised.

Palpy, he didnt sense Vader rising up against him.

Originally posted by Impediment
If you feel I am wrong, I welcome you to PM me. WTF are you t-t-t-t-alking about?

Guys, remember Dumbledore vs Yoda.


When Rob supported Dumbledore, and RJ supported Yoda.


Good times.

Look, I'm not saying its perfect or anything, but unless its completely blindsided, overwhelmed or just not paid attention to, precog does tend to work, and isn't nearly as fail as you're trying to make it out to be.

All 3 of those came in exceptional circumstances, Vader was looking around for who had just shot at him, he'd just found out he had a daughter and that it was actually someone he'd personally tortured (plus, he wasn't surprised by Luke but by how much power he suddenly gained from going berserk on his ass), and the Emperor was completely focused on the last possible threat to him broken at his feet. Exceptional circumstances, when the characters were at their most vulnerable and weren't properly paying attention. CIS, which won't happen here.