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I havent seen this one posted yet, who would win, Goku or Gohan?

lol, the only time Gohan ever stood a chance was during the Cell games, and even then, I'd take Goku.

Originally posted by marwash22
lol, the only time Gohan ever stood a chance was during the Cell games, and even then, I'd take Goku.
Except for that whole powerup in the Buu saga, right?

Ok, if you wanna count some ancient mojo.

I guess it depends on which versions of Goku and Gohan are fighting. If both are at their peek... Goku wins easily.

If they are both at their peak, Gohan has his mystic powerup... meaning he wins.

How do you figure?

Gohan at his peek is SS2 + the Old Kai thing.
Goku at his peek is SS4.

SSJ4 and Dragon Ball GT are non-canon.

and? that wasn't specified.

Although Gohan is a hybrid saiyan, his humanity can limit his potential. Goku is completely saiyan there's nothing that will stop him.
As for Mystic Gohan, isn't it temporary? I know Goku's SS3 transformation can only be sustained for a temporary amount of time but that form is planted into him.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
SSJ4 and Dragon Ball GT are non-canon.

This is the Anime/Manga forum.

At End Of Z...Gokou probably wins. But only cause Gohan hasn't been training for ten years while Gokou would be able to close the gap training for ten years. But from known power from Buu Saga Gohan wins

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
SSJ4 and Dragon Ball GT are non-canon. Originally posted by dadudemon
This is the Anime/Manga forum.




Yeah, and the OP wasn't exactly specific on the details of the fight.

For all we know, it could be Chibi Goku (GT) vs. Kid Gohan.

Canon Gohan >>> Canon Goku.

With anime, Goku would win.

Depends when we're talking.

Originally posted by atv2
As for Mystic Gohan, isn't it temporary?
No. He can use his Mystic form whenever. GT kinda retconned it though by not having it at all.

End of series Gohan wins

goku can be super..4 but gohan only up to 2 so 200% goku will win

Excellent job reading the above posts

Originally posted by Endless Mike
End of series Gohan wins


This.

The interesting thing about Mystic form is it didn't seem to require effort in powering up, it didn't use up endurance, and it didn't require or put him into a battle rage. I wouldn't be surprised if SSJ3 and Mystic were fairly close in absolute power level terms, but Mystic is without a doubt *better*. Gohan should win.

Didn't Akira say that Gohan was supposed to be the strongest of the Cell series which was meant to be the end until fans didn't like this so he ended it with Goku being stronger. If I remember right.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Didn't Akira say that Gohan was supposed to be the strongest of the Cell series which was meant to be the end until fans didn't like this so he ended it with Goku being stronger. If I remember right. yea actually goku was never supposed to come back gohan was supposed to follow in his father's footsteps

Goku, surely. Gohan's just a skinny kid!

I'm not too sure about this.

Firstly, I'm still not convinced that the Mystic powerup puts Gohan above SS3 Goku. I mean Gohan was smacking around Pure Super Buu like old chewing gum to be sure, but was getting thoroughly thrashed by Buutenks. Meanwhile, SS3 was able to stand toe to toe with both Fat Buu and Kid Buu, Kid Buu proving to be the superior compared to any other form by feats alone (And for those of you relying on Goku's vague statements about Buu's various powerlevels, I'll remind you all that he did state during the formation into Kid Buu that he was getting stronger than he was as Buuhan. The only reason he took on Kid Buu without the Potara Fusion was due to the challenge, he used Potara against Buuhan because the Earth was still intact at the time.)

If GT enters the mix, I'm assuming that SS4 is supposed to be far more powerful tha SS3... so it gets broken.

Gohan is the strongest at the end of DBZ

Originally posted by yungz22
Gohan is the strongest at the end of DBZ

Why? Based on What? How people reach these conclusions is beyond me right now...

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Why? Based on What? How people reach these conclusions is beyond me right now... Gohan beating on Super Buu, when Gotenks unfuses in Super Buu, and Piccolo's the dominate trait, Gokou isn't all scared, and says Gohan can beat him now, and when Vegeta revives Earth Gokou asks Vegeta if he's going to get Gotenks and Gohan to beat Kid Buu. Who Gokou was having trouble with.

Originally posted by Kento
Gohan beating on Super Buu, when Gotenks unfuses in Super Buu, and Piccolo's the dominate trait, Gokou isn't all scared, and says Gohan can beat him now,

I am assuming that he's doing this simply because he's hoping Gohan would replace him fully. He did say that he wasn't going to be around forever.

Originally posted by Kento
and when Vegeta revives Earth Gokou asks Vegeta if he's going to get Gotenks and Gohan to beat Kid Buu. Who Gokou was having trouble with.

He was having trouble because he played around at the start, hoping to "give Vegeta a turn" not because he couldn't win if he had gone full on right off the bat.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I am assuming that he's doing this simply because he's hoping Gohan would replace him fully. He did say that he wasn't going to be around forever.



He was having trouble because he played around at the start, hoping to "give Vegeta a turn" not because he couldn't win if he had gone full on right off the bat. Gokou was only equal to Fat Buu, well a little bit stronger. Super Buu was much more powerful than Fat Buu, and in turn Gokou....


No he wasn't. Gokou even says he was trying, and wasn't going to give Vegeta a turn when Vegeta mentions it when they stop and talk....when Vegeta tries to buy Gokou time..

To answer all questions.

Gohan (post Elder-Kai training) >> Full-power Super Saiyan 3 Goku > Super Saiyan 3 Goku >> Super Saiyan 2 Goku > Super Saiyan 2 kid Gohan > Super Saiyan 2 teen Gohan >> Full-power Super Saiyan Gohan > Full-power Super Saiyan Goku ...

Originally posted by Kento
Gokou was only equal to Fat Buu, well a little bit stronger. Super Buu was much more powerful than Fat Buu, and in turn Gokou....

Fat Buu couldn't even touch fat Buu, plus Goku was fairing pretty evenly with kid Buu, while Fat Buu got his ass handed to him all over the place when he tried to fight Kid Buu.

Originally posted by Kento
No he wasn't. Gokou even says he was trying, and wasn't going to give Vegeta a turn when Vegeta mentions it when they stop and talk....when Vegeta tries to buy Gokou time..

Dude, Goku said he could take Kid Buu when he was fresh, but played around too much so Vegeta could have a turn...

hMTfqHYB-Bw
Check 7:21 to 7:43

So unless the Manga overrules this...

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v42/c008/13.html

Vegeta - Don't worry about me just finish him off

Gokou - That's what I've been trying to do.

hMTfqHYB-Bw

Sorry about my bad coding... :P

Anyways, I hope that translation is accurate Kento

lol More accurate than Funimation.

I'm not saying it isn't... But Then there are about a dozen different translations of DBZ floating around the net, nevermind paperbacks, and Funimation happens to be the most well recognized variable out there.

gohan would fail.
goku wins here

gohan stomped super buu while goku was somewhat toe to toe with fat buu. Super buu is stronger than fat buu. Also goku said he couldnt beat him but gohan could when piccolo buu took over

Goku ftw

Mystic Gohan>>>SS3 Goku....Kid Buu wasn't stronger than super buu....he was only more evil which means he didn't have a concious,which also made him more dangerous. Being more dangerous doesn't make you the strongest.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Didn't Akira say that Gohan was supposed to be the strongest of the Cell series which was meant to be the end until fans didn't like this so he ended it with Goku being stronger. If I remember right.

Not quite. He simply said that he had trouble coming up with decent material during the earlier chapters showing Gohan' first few days/weeks of high school. He tried again to end it with Ultimate Gohan as the one to kill Super Buu, but that's when fans still wanted Goku to be in the series and whatnot. He never said anything about making Goku stronger than Gohan, or even Gotenks. Gohan had been 1-upping Goku since the series started, and when Akira Toriyama finally worked to make something of it after the Android/Cell Saga, fans simply didn't want him to completely abandon Goku.

In fact, in other interviews, he's even stated that Goku isn't even the most powerful SSJ3, saying that Gotenks was slightly stronger in said form. How slight, I don't think anyone's sure, but enough so that he could eventually gain the upper hand against Super Buu with work, whereas Gohan mopped the floor Super Buu, and started off evenly matched against Buutenks.

Meanwhile, SS3 was able to stand toe to toe with both Fat Buu and Kid Buu, Kid Buu proving to be the superior compared to any other form by feats alone (And for those of you relying on Goku's vague statements about Buu's various powerlevels, I'll remind you all that he did state during the formation into Kid Buu that he was getting stronger than he was as Buuhan. The only reason he took on Kid Buu without the Potara Fusion was due to the challenge, he used Potara against Buuhan because the Earth was still intact at the time.)

Wrong. Back when he became Kid Buu, they only noted his rise in Ki when he was briefly passing through his South Supreme Kai form (which they were comparing to Base Super Buu), and upon becoming Kid Buu, he noted how he had then become much weaker and that they could take him. Kid Buu's feats aren't based on greater power either, but rather the fact that he's a mindless, ruthless killing machine made for the sole purpose of destroying everything he sees and with a complete disregrd for the well-being of anything, including himself (hence why he let himself get blown to pieces every time he destroyed a planet). It's kind of like Doomsday; at first he was this mindless brute with no sense of self-restraint on his power, but when he became sentient one time, he was actually concerned somewhat of exerting himself too much. That, and there's the fact that Goku in the manga prett much shat himself when Buutenks was charging straight at him, and even in the anime filler, he was getting the shit kicked out of him faster than it took for Gohan who, again, started off evenly matched and was getting mauled more because of the same reason Vegito let himself get absorbed than a difference in power more significant than at first.

Originally posted by First_Tsurugi06
upon becoming Kid Buu, he noted how he had then become much weaker and that they could take him. In Kid Buu's defense they kind of underestimate him.... Vegeta, and Gokou both assume either one of them can take him making them think he isn't above a ssj2, and he just toys with ssj3 Gokou. And even after Vegeta watches, and can follow Gokou and Kid Buu fighting, Vegeta assumes he can stall for a minute, and when he fights Kid Buu can't follow Kid Buu at all.

i think not cause gohan is too naive he been that way ever since the cell saga that's why he would lose . Goku knows what's up and he's more battle smart than gohan. He might be slightly stronger but Goku got him beat in skill . And skill will always be better than raw power

And to spread some light on the fight with kid buu true they did underestimate him .Goku could have defeated him if he would've went full power from the get go just like he said but he wanted to let vegeta have a chance so it wouldn't hurt his pride . See even in danger Goku keeps his heart intact and thinks of others

Originally posted by dbzmoses555
i think not cause gohan is too naive he been that way ever since the cell saga that's why he would lose . Goku knows what's up and he's more battle smart than gohan. He might be slightly stronger but Goku got him beat in skill . And skill will always be better than raw power Gohan was trained by the two greatest fighters..Piccolo and Gokou. It's not skill he lacks. It's his pacifist nature that's the problem. He doesn't like to fight. Originally posted by dbzmoses555
And to spread some light on the fight with kid buu true they did underestimate him .Goku could have defeated him if he would've went full power from the get go just like he said but he wanted to let vegeta have a chance so it wouldn't hurt his pride . See even in danger Goku keeps his heart intact and thinks of others Gokou admits he was trying to destroy Buu......except in the American dub but that doesn't really matter.

Originally posted by Kento
Gohan was trained by the two greatest fighters..Piccolo and Gokou. It's not skill he lacks. It's his pacifist nature that's the problem. He doesn't like to fight.


Yea, which is why his final powerup is fitting; enlightenment rather than the battle lust of the Super Saiyan modes.

It's Canon that the hybrid is actually stronger, Raditz says it and I think Vegeta confirms it.

But it depends when. Cell games and I'd give it to Gohan. But only just. Beginning of Buu saga, to Goku but at the end of it, I'd give it to Gohan.

SS3 Goku can equal and maybe even surpass him for a while, but it drains him very quickly...

Originally posted by Kento
In Kid Buu's defense they kind of underestimate him.... Vegeta, and Gokou both assume either one of them can take him making them think he isn't above a ssj2, and he just toys with ssj3 Gokou. And even after Vegeta watches, and can follow Gokou and Kid Buu fighting, Vegeta assumes he can stall for a minute, and when he fights Kid Buu can't follow Kid Buu at all.

I kind of got the impression that they just underestimated his lack of restraint. I'm pretty sure the last thing they were expecting was that Kid Buu's first act would be wiping out the planet.

Originally posted by Tron
I kind of got the impression that they just underestimated his lack of restraint. I'm pretty sure the last thing they were expecting was that Kid Buu's first act would be wiping out the planet. There was that also.

Originally posted by King Kandy
If they are both at their peak, Gohan has his mystic powerup... meaning he wins.

Maybe.

The thing is, we never really saw a "full power" SSJ3 Goku. It was actually Vegeta who made the claim that if Goku was using all his might, he'd beat Buu in an instant, but because the form was only meant to be used in the afterlife, he couldn't top it off.

However, Goku had ten years since to perfect the form by series end.

Personally, I think Gohan had a power advantage, but even in Z power alone isn't the be all, end all.

Originally posted by Tron
I kind of got the impression that they just underestimated his lack of restraint. I'm pretty sure the last thing they were expecting was that Kid Buu's first act would be wiping out the planet.

Fatty was basically a moderating force, because the fat Kaio-shin was such a good hearted being.

The original Buu (a.k.a.Kidd Buu) without Fat Buu's power should have logically suffered a power drop, but he came across as much more powerful then Super Buu. Look at how Goku did against Fatty, vs how he did against the Original buu.. He couldn't even slow him down!

Odds are, Original Buu kept most of the power, and simply ejected the personality of Fat Buu (And in fact, it was stated Fat Buu already suffered a power drop when Skinny Buu ate him, (transforming into Super Buu..) And without that moderating personality, he stopped restraining his powers...

Originally posted by cdtm
Fatty was basically a moderating force, because the fat Kaio-shin was such a good hearted being.

The original Buu (a.k.a.Kidd Buu) without Fat Buu's power should have logically suffered a power drop, but he came across as much more powerful then Super Buu. Look at how Goku did against Fatty, vs how he did against the Original buu.. He couldn't even slow him down!

Odds are, Original Buu kept most of the power, and simply ejected the personality of Fat Buu (And in fact, it was stated Fat Buu already suffered a power drop when Skinny Buu ate him, (transforming into Super Buu..) And without that moderating personality, he stopped restraining his powers...

In my opinion, the one major difference between Kid Buu and Super Buu was lack of restraint, and a lack of sanity. Super Buu was of course more intelligent, and capable of reason. He mainly wanted to someone to give him a good fight and have fun. Kid Buu, on the other hand, had none of those things. He was made for pure destruction, having no reason whatsoever other than just blasting things to nothing. That's why he seemed more powerful, he felt no need to to hold back like Super Buu did.