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Team 1:

Yama
Soifon
Gin
Unohana
Aizen
Byakuya
Komamura
Shunsui
Tosen
Toshiro
Kenpachi
Mayuri
Jushiro


Team 2:

Deidara
Hidan
Kisame
Kakuzu
Konan
Orochimaru
Pein
Sasori
Itachi
Madara
Sasuke
Suigetsu
Jugo

NOTE: replaced Zetsu with Sasuke 'cause as far as i know, he has no offensive skill. Added Suigetsu and Jugo just to even out the numbers.

No power restrictions, fight takes place on Earth... who wins?

Team 1, much stronger.

The Akatsuki have some abilities that are a threat to Captains, but Bleach characters are faster (S-class ninja probably move fairly near mach. Captain-class Bleachers move multi-mach), more resistant to damage (Ninja are glass canons with rare exceptions, Captains are tanks), and higher across-the-board stats (a strength-based ninja may compete in muscle, or a firepower based ninja may compete in firepower, but all captains have great strength/toughness/speed/etc.).

Mostly the Ninja are more specialized and can only compete in the area they're specifically best at. They can probably inflict some casualties if they go uber-jutsu off the bat, Amaterasu everyone who can move while the teams hide behind Susano'os, Tobi warps mega Deidara bombs to their targets, and Pain tries to moon-control all the enemies, but if it pairs up to individual fights they're totally screwed, and they'll still eventually lose.

Speed and strength would play a huge part in this and the Gotei 13 definitely has that advantage overall. However, the entire Gotei 13 was fooled by Aizen's Shikai...

take into consideration that Akatsuki has three Sharingan users, not to mention a Rinnegan user. I think we will agree that any form of Sharigan is superior to Aizen's perfect hypnosis and that perfect hypnosis would have no effect on the four Akatsuki member's with eye techniques. That said, i have to figure Madara, Itachi and Sasuke will immediately incapacitate at least half of the gotei 13 before any of them can even think about releasing.

Let's say Zaraki somehow isn't one of the people who gets caught in an eye technique... the obvious matchup would be him vs Kisame. If we equate Chakra to Reiatsu, Kisame's sword will eat up the majority of Zaraki's energy.

Pein could definitely take Yama.

It would be interesting to see how a fight between Soi Fon and Hidan would work since her Shikai is two shot auto kill, But Hidan can't be killed.

There are some unknowns in terms of not knowing some of the captain's Bankai capabilities, but I haven't even mentioned Orochimaru yet who is all but invincible.

Originally posted by marwash22
take into consideration that Akatsuki has three Sharingan users, not to mention a Rinnegan user. I think we will agree that any form of Sharigan is superior to Aizen's perfect hypnosis and that perfect hypnosis would have no effect on the four Akatsuki member's with eye techniques.
Wrong.

Originally posted by marwash22
That said, i have to figure Madara, Itachi and Sasuke will immediately incapacitate at least half of the gotei 13 before any of them can even think about releasing.
Wrong.

Originally posted by marwash22
Let's say Zaraki somehow isn't one of the people who gets caught in an eye technique... the obvious matchup would be him vs Kisame. If we equate Chakra to Reiatsu, Kisame's sword will eat up the majority of Zaraki's energy.
Wrong.

Originally posted by marwash22
Pein could definitely take Yama.
Very, VERY wrong.

Originally posted by marwash22
It would be interesting to see how a fight between Soi Fon and Hidan would work since her Shikai is two shot auto kill, But Hidan can't be killed.
She'd be best to pursue something else, then. Her bankai can blow him up given he's the slowest person here.

Originally posted by marwash22
There are some unknowns in terms of not knowing some of the captain's Bankai capabilities, but I haven't even mentioned Orochimaru yet who is all but invincible.
Wrong.

@ King Kandy

very riveting and succinct points you make.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Wrong.

No, correct. I don't think any illusion techniques would work on Itachi, Sasuke, Madara, or Pain. You don't have any proof that Aizen's sword work on a Sharingan user. In fact, you have no proof that they work on humans, period.

You can't just make statements like that without proving it.

It's up to the thread starter, imo.


Originally posted by King Kandy
Wrong. \

Agreed. The speed from Bleach Captains is just on a completely different level from Naruto characters.


Originally posted by King Kandy
Wrong.

I sort of disagree.

I think that it would turn out to be a similar situation in that filler episode where Goku gave that one creature too much energy and it exploded.



Originally posted by King Kandy
Very, VERY wrong.


No one would be able to touch Yamamoto. He just has to flex his Reiatesu.



Originally posted by King Kandy
She'd be best to pursue something else, then. Her bankai can blow him up given he's the slowest person here.

Nah. She'd be a good match-up for anyone. They'd all die.


Originally posted by King Kandy
Wrong.
Nah. That's completely true. You're just being doodoo butter.

@ dadudemon

on the second reply, what does speed have to do with what i wrote? Also, even taking speed into account, there is no speed that is too fast for Sharingan to counter. Point is, as soon as Itachi lays an eye on one of the bleach captains, it's over.

If Yoruichi (the best shunpo user in bleach) was apart of this, not even she would be able to overcome the eye speed of a Sharingan user.

Originally posted by marwash22
@ dadudemon

on the second reply, what does speed have to do with what i wrote? Also, even taking speed into account, there is no speed that is too fast for Sharingan to counter. Point is, as soon as Itachi lays an eye on one of the bleach captains, it's over.

If Yoruichi (the best shunpo user in bleach) was apart of this, not even she would be able to overcome the eye speed of a Sharingan user.

You're incorrect.


Naruto was moving too fast for the Sharingan, pre-timeskip, while in a single tail cloaked form, against Sasuke.


Raikage was moving too fast for Sasuke to use the Sharingan against him.



Do you read Bleach and Naruto?

I read and watch bleach, i only watch naruto.

I need clarification... If we equate their power, is there anything to suggest that Yama (the strongest bleach captain) is as powerful as Naruto in demon cloak, with 4 tails? I could very well be wrong, but no bleach character has displayed that kind of power.

Also, i didn't mean to say that, if a bleach character used shunpo to attack one of the Sharingan user's, the sharingan user could keep up. What i meant is that no bleach character would be fast enough kill Itachi, Sasuke or Madara before the eye technique is implemented.

No.

The only think that happens is reitsu = chakra

http://img12.tx.us.mangafox.com/store/manga/9/41-351.0/compressed/ubleach_351_sleepyfans.08.jpg

I'm fairly certain no Naruto character has displayed power on this scale. The dome next to it is so massive that after running to the point of exhaustion, when its been established (by himself though) that Ichigo can run for about 5 days without rest on a machine specifically designed to tire him out quickly, that its still no bigger or closer. Though its unknown how long they've actually been running for. It should be noted as well that this took no visible effort on Ulq's part and that he immediately made another again without effort.



I don't know about this. Bleach characters have insane reaction times, able to react to and dodge swords literally millimeters from their faces. Coupled with their high speed....

Hey, I'm not questioning that at all, i completely agree... but like i said before, the entire Gotei 13 was caught by Aizen's hypnosis which by all accounts, is inferior to Sharingan; so i seriously doubt any captain can do a thing to thwart the sharingan.

All it takes for Itachi to kill you is eye contact.

I wasn't aware of that. What technique allows him to kill with eye contact again?

Originally posted by Nephthys
I wasn't aware of that. What technique allows him to kill with eye contact again? That's one of the main functions of the Sharingan.

Much like Aizen's perfect hypnosis, as soon as you see it (it, being Aizen's sword and Itachi's eyes) you are immediately placed under it's influence. For someone like Itatchi or Madara who are both extremely adept in genjutsu, they would easily kill multiple captains before swords could be unsheathed.

Are you seriously this out of touch with things?

Post someone getting killed by Tsukuyomi. EVER.

I have read every chapter of naruto. It never happens. Ever. EVER.

I dont even think anybody has claimed it to be able to do that

your just a anime fan boy

Originally posted by marwash22
Hey, I'm not questioning that at all, i completely agree... but like i said before, the entire Gotei 13 was caught by Aizen's hypnosis which by all accounts, is inferior to Sharingan;
Based on what? Aizen has permanent control of the senses... at the very best, Tsukiyomi gives you the same for about... 3 seconds.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, correct. I don't think any illusion techniques would work on Itachi, Sasuke, Madara, or Pain. You don't have any proof that Aizen's sword work on a Sharingan user. In fact, you have no proof that they work on humans, period.

You can't just make statements like that without proving it.

It's up to the thread starter, imo.
Pein was caught by Genjutsu before.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Based on what? Aizen has permanent control of the senses... at the very best, Tsukiyomi gives you the same for about... 3 seconds. based on the fact that, Aizen's ability doesn't keep him from seeing through or being caught in other people's illusions; Sharingan does exactly that.

Aizen wouldn't be able to put Madara/Itachi/Sasuke under.
Madara/Itachi/Sasuke would be able to put Aizen under.

Sharingan > Suigetsu

Originally posted by marwash22
based on the fact that, Aizen's ability doesn't keep him from seeing through or being caught in other people's illusions; Sharingan does exactly that.

Aizen wouldn't be able to put Madara/Itachi/Sasuke under.
Madara/Itachi/Sasuke would be able to put Aizen under.

Sharingan > Suigetsu
Sharingan never stopped people from being caught in Tsukiyomi, why would Suigetsu be any different?

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Are you seriously this out of touch with things?

Post someone getting killed by Tsukuyomi. EVER.

I have read every chapter of naruto. It never happens. Ever. EVER.

I dont even think anybody has claimed it to be able to do that

I never once said that the Tsukuyomi itself could kill anyone. My point was that, once you're caught in it, you are effectively dead because Itachi owns you. Kakashi said it himself.


Originally posted by Gecko4lif
your just a anime fan boy This is a forum dedicated to anime, in which, you to, are on... aren't we all fanboys?

Originally posted by King Kandy
Sharingan never stopped people from being caught in Tsukiyomi, why would Suigetsu be any different? So, now we are placing Aizen's hypnosis on the same level with the most powerful genjutsu in the world?

Originally posted by marwash22
I never once said that the Tsukuyomi itself could kill anyone. My point was that, once you're caught in it, you are effectively dead because Itachi owns you. Kakashi said it himself.

Except it only lasts a literal second in the real world

No.

how does the length of the attack reduce it's effectiveness?

Is that a rhetorical question?

Or are you really that limited in your mental faculties?

So, now you're placing the Sharingan on the same level as the most powerful zanpakto ability in the world?

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Is that a rhetorical question?

Or are you really that limited in your mental faculties? Yes, let's resort to insults because we can't justify our statements.

I'll ask again, how does the time it takes to execute the maneuver and it's overall duration, effect the level of it's impact?

Originally posted by marwash22
Yes, let's resort to insults because we can't justify our statements.

I'll ask again, how does the time it takes to execute the maneuver and it's overall duration, effect the level of it's impact?

what a retarded question

Which attack would you prefer

The attack that gives you permanent control over someones mind

or

The attack that gives you control over someones mind for 1 second

Originally posted by Nephthys
So, now you're placing the Sharingan on the same level as the most powerful zanpakto ability in the world? That's horriblly flawed logic.

the two things are on completely different levels. That's like saying, because you have the best tennis serve in your high school, it's on par with the best serve in professional tennis.

Again, Sharingan > Suigetsu.

Originally posted by marwash22
That's horriblly flawed logic.

the two things are on completely different levels. That's like saying, because you have the best tennis serve in your high school, it's on par with the best serve in professional tennis.

Again, Sharingan > Suigetsu.

Well Lets compare notes

Suigetsu
- Easily spammed
- Functions till Death
- Can target multiple people at once
- Can not be broken without the consent of weilder

Sharingan
- Not spamable
- Functions for 1 second
- Can only target a single person
- Can be broken by internal means



Yeah... much clearer now...

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
what a retarded question

Which attack would you prefer

The attack that gives you permanent control over someones mind

or

The attack that gives you control over someones mind for 1 second You're not making sense.

First off, it's a short amount of time IN THE ACTUAL WORLD, but in the victims mind, it's substantially longer and entirely more draining on a mental and physical level.

Also, you have failed to explain why Madara, Itachi or Sasuke wouldn't see through Aizen's hypnosis with the use of their Sharingan. Do you mean to tell me, that Shinji, who doe not possess the Sharingan, can see through Aizen's hypnosis, but Itachi, who does posses the Sharingan, cannot?

I'll be happy to concede the point and admit I'm wrong... provided you give me valid reasoning.

Somebody is downplaying Aizens shikai....

Originally posted by marwash22
You're not making sense.

First off, it's a short amount of time IN THE ACTUAL WORLD, but in the victims mind, it's substantially longer and entirely more draining on a mental and physical level.

And is entirely depends on the mental strength of the target. I doubt batman would be phased by it more than " Ouch. Now it is my turn"


Becuase it isnt an illusion. It is real. Well... sorta. It is real to you. Illusions are just thoughts in your brain. Suigetsu you really ARE seeing, hearing, smelling etc what it says you are.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Somebody is downplaying Aizens shikai.... I'm not downplaying it; I acknowledge it's power. I'm refuting the possibility of it ever being a factor in a fight against people who's primary power is specifically tailored to combat illusions from ever being cast on them.

Making snide remarks without any factual evidence to support them, is not a valid form of debate.

Not really debating just stating my opinion

Originally posted by marwash22
So, now we are placing Aizen's hypnosis on the same level with the most powerful genjutsu in the world?
Yes, because it's displayed the exact same abilities... well not quite true, actually. Because Tsukiyomi has been broken, but Aizen's hypnosis never has.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Becuase it isnt an illusion. It is real. Well... sorta. It is real to you. Illusions are just thoughts in your brain. Suigetsu you really ARE seeing, hearing, smelling etc what it says you are.

What the flying f...?
What do you think Kyoka Suigetsu does?
Even if it is called hypnosis, it is still an illusion, regardless of how the victim is affected. Illusions are phenomena that disrupt our senses and thus deceive us. Kyoka Suigetsu, through controlling the victim's senses, is disrupting said senses.
_____

~ That said, the illusions that Kyoka Suigetsu creates are nearly flawless, and they can't be broken, at least by the characters of the verse it appears in.
That's not the case for Sharingan or MS genjutsu, as they've repeatedly been broken through.
It's entirely up to speculation if the Sharingan could break through Kyoka Suigetsu's effect though.

Aizen could, in all honesty, solo this thread. All he has to do is show the release of his Shikai to his opponents. They have no info on this naturally, and they'll fall victim to it, apart from perhaps those with Doujutsu.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Pein was caught by Genjutsu before.

No he wasn't: his bodies were. And, that Genjutsu was special: not even Itachi would have avoided it because it was a sound genjutsu.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No he wasn't: his bodies were. And, that Genjutsu was special: not even Itachi would have avoided it because it was a sound genjutsu.
And so your argument is that, since Genjutsu worked perfectly the only time it was tried... Pein is genjutsu-resistant? I really don't see where you're coming from, since the rinnegan was never shown to resist illusions.

Originally posted by King Kandy
And so your argument is that, since Genjutsu worked perfectly the only time it was tried... Pein is genjutsu-resistant? I really don't see where you're coming from, since the rinnegan was never shown to resist illusions. I don't understand how you have the nerve to use this logic since you refuse to use the same logic as it pertains to Aizen vs. Itachi, Madara or Sasuke.

Originally posted by marwash22
I don't understand how you have the nerve to use this logic since you refuse to use the same logic as it pertains to Aizen vs. Itachi, Madara or Sasuke.
No... you were shown every evidence that suigetsu can do what tsukiyomi can, but better, all you could do in response was to say "the two are on different levels, so they can't be compared", while offering ZERO substantiation evidence to actually support such an assertion.

How about you tell me why you believe Tsukiyomi>Kyoka Suigetsu, when Suigetsu has factually shown greater capabilities?

Originally posted by King Kandy
And so your argument is that, since Genjutsu worked perfectly the only time it was tried... Pein is genjutsu-resistant?

Against Eye Genjutsu. Yes.


Originally posted by King Kandy
I really don't see where you're coming from, since the rinnegan was never shown to resist illusions.

It is superior to the Sharingan.


Also, did I mention

The only way Pain would lose to an Eye technique: Pain was in the middle of adjusting a flag on government property.

where was it stated that the rinnegan was superior to the sharingan in every way, or in countering genjutsu?

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
where was it stated that the rinnegan was superior to the sharingan in every way, or in countering genjutsu?

Chapter 347, page 4.

This is page 4 of chapter 347.

http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/000225922/04.jpg

Originally posted by dadudemon
Against Eye Genjutsu. Yes.
Evidence?

Originally posted by dadudemon
It is superior to the Sharingan.
It has it's own powers that are better. In terms of genjutsu... no, there is nothing indicating that.

Originally posted by King Kandy
No... you were shown every evidence that suigetsu can do what tsukiyomi can, but better, all you could do in response was to say "the two are on different levels, so they can't be compared", while offering ZERO substantiation evidence to actually support such an assertion. Ahhhhh, i see. Perhaps i was too hasty in my defense.

Tsukuyomi and Suigetsu.... EQUAL! I will concede to that.



Originally posted by King Kandy
How about you tell me why you believe Tsukiyomi>Kyoka Suigetsu, when Suigetsu has factually shown greater capabilities?

You're absolutely correct and i apologize for skewing my argument.

Tsukuyomi = Suigetsu. This is a greed upon, correct?

That said, Tsukuyomi is only one aspect of the Sharingan. What i was arguing this entire time is that...

Sharingan > Suigetsu.

To that point, my argument is that, Sharingan users are highly resistent to hypnosis since their perception is uncanny. Taking that into consideration, how exactly will Aizen's Suigetsu ever come into play against the three Sharingan users? Also, Aizen has no defense against the sharingan.

I'll say it again, for like the third time...
Aizen cannot put Madara, Itachi or Sasuke under.
Madara, Itachi or Sasuke can put Aizen under.

Originally posted by marwash22
Ahhhhh, i see. Perhaps i was too hasty in my defense.

Tsukuyomi and Suigetsu.... EQUAL! I will concede to that.
Cool. That's all I needed to know. Because Tsukiyomi CAN affect sharingan users, and Suigetsu will as well then.

Originally posted by marwash22
To that point, my argument is that, Sharingan users are highly resistent to hypnosis since their perception is uncanny.
Tsukiyomi has easily affected people who use sharingan, and a base sharingan cannot break tsukiyomi. Thus I think we have ample reason to believe they will both fall for Suigetsu, and be unable to escape it.

This is all complete speculation; neither of us have any actual weight behind our stance... HOWEVER, which of the following do you think will happen first...

Aizen drawing his sword and releasing his zanpakuto.
or
Madara, Itachi or Sasuke, looking Aizen in the eyes.

The first one. Aizen is way faster and isn't going to look at them.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Evidence?


It has it's own powers that are better. In terms of genjutsu... no, there is nothing indicating that.

I was being a smart arse.

Demonic Phoenix had to go and post up the actual scan, though.

Aizen hs no reason to look them in the eyes

Infact his most used tactic is blitz + stab/slash in back

lol, you guys are just trying to be contrary. Aizen has no knowledge of the Sharingan or it's abilities. You can't honestly believe he would look at least on of his opponents in the eye.

we have a difference of opinion and no matter what I say, you'll just counter it with flawed logic. The same is probably true for me as well.

He has thirteen opponents... it would be foolish to focus on any one of them.

True. But all it takes is a glance. You're telling me that if there are thirteen people lined up, Aizen wont scan the battlefield?

Without knowledge that looking into three of the fighters eyes would be detrimental, he'd most definitely look at least one of them in eye, even if it's for a nanosecond.

If there were 13 opponents aizen wouldnt scan the battlefield

He would active the land mines he placed there on the off chance he would be fighting in the near future :creepgrin:

Originally posted by marwash22
True. But all it takes is a glance. You're telling me that if there are thirteen people lined up, Aizen wont scan the battlefield?

Without knowledge that looking into three of the fighters eyes would be detrimental, he'd most definitely look at least one of them in eye, even if it's for a nanosecond.
Not really... I don't think he would make eye contact at all, the first thing he would do is release his shikai. And then he's won.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Not really... I don't think he would make eye contact at all, the first thing he would do is release his shikai. And then he's won. conjecture.

this is all conjecture. "conjecture" is not a valid counter or negation of a point in any way

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
this is all conjecture. "conjecture" is not a valid counter or negation of a point in any way neither is PIS.. but the bullshyt gets tossed around like Renji against, well, anyone.

Originally posted by marwash22
conjecture.
Not really... that's what he did when he was confronting the hollows in Los Noches.

wow i cant believe that ppl actually thinks thas sharingan is superior to Suigetsu......lets compare them

Suigetsu's info
isnt a normal illusion its control of all 5 senses meaning he can make all of the akatsuki fight and kill each other...there is no way to see through his ability with your eyes unless sharingan has the ability to alter all 5 of their senses


sharingan

can control 1 person at a time takin out very weak willed ppl so at the maximum take out 3 captains leaving 10 left meaning the can cut to pieces in that 3 second or whatever span that they use to look into someone's eye while aizen's shikai makes everyone who saw it fight each other to the death thinking their fighting the captains


so in reality aizen's absolute control over the 5 senses at any time any place>>>>sharingan's brain illusions that only works if you look someone in the eye and only works on one person at a time


but back to the real battle..gotei 13 takes this battle bcuz if speed difference and aizen's hohyoku, gins mach 500 bankai yama's shikai, tousen, hollow powers, and bankai, soi fon's shikai, and hundreds of kido and hado spells..besides who's beating aizen's full hogyoku form

Originally posted by dw6xl
wow i cant believe that ppl actually thinks thas sharingan is superior to Suigetsu......lets compare them

Suigetsu's info
isnt a normal illusion its control of all 5 senses meaning he can make all of the akatsuki fight and kill each other...there is no way to see through his ability with your eyes unless sharingan has the ability to alter all 5 of their senses


sharingan

can control 1 person at a time takin out very weak willed ppl so at the maximum take out 3 captains leaving 10 left meaning the can cut to pieces in that 3 second or whatever span that they use to look into someone's eye while aizen's shikai makes everyone who saw it fight each other to the death thinking their fighting the captains


so in reality aizen's absolute control over the 5 senses at any time any place>>>>sharingan's brain illusions that only works if you look someone in the eye and only works on one person at a time


but back to the real battle..gotei 13 takes this battle bcuz if speed difference and aizen's hohyoku, gins mach 500 bankai yama's shikai, tousen, hollow powers, and bankai, soi fon's shikai, and hundreds of kido and hado spells..besides who's beating aizen's full hogyoku form




Wow, it's as if the ninja can't use anything outside of the 5 senses...cause ninja don't have senses outside the 5 senses.


Wait....some do.

The Sharingan, once activiated, becomes a sense outside of the 5 senses...can see chakra a bit...and can see through solid objects. pwned.

No they really dont.

Your just embarrassing yourself now.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
No they really dont.

Your just embarrassing yourself now.

Yes, I'm extremely embarrassed because your only rebuttal was "nuh uh."


You mad cause I just pwned your big post with simpler words? hehehehehe






I bet you're a kid...15? 16?

when was it stated that the sharingan was like a 6th sense? and isnt seein through solid objects still seeing? meaning its still ONE OF THE 5 SENSES just a more enhanced version..smh

Originally posted by dw6xl
when was it stated that the sharingan was like a 6th sense? and isnt seein through solid objects still seeing? meaning its still ONE OF THE 5 SENSES just a more enhanced version..smh

Let me know when you develop the Sharingan...cause obviously, it's part of the 5 regular ol' senses.


Until then, you're just going to have to deal with the reality that your whole point fell right on its head and it's useless for this discussion.

But, if you develop the sharingan and can prove that it is a basic set for all humans' 5 senses, I'll eat my words, by God.

Originally posted by dw6xl
when was it stated that the sharingan was like a 6th sense? and isnt seein through solid objects still seeing? meaning its still ONE OF THE 5 SENSES just a more enhanced version..smh

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yes, I'm extremely embarrassed because your only rebuttal was "nuh uh."


You mad cause I just pwned your big post with simpler words? hehehehehe






I bet you're a kid...15? 16?

I am now convinced you are medically retarded. Congratulations I wont make fun of you anymore. No fun in taunting an actual retard.

How about everyone stop insulting each other and just debate?


---
Unohana did suspect something was up with Aizen's illusion when she checked the corpse, so it's not flawless, but it is pretty strong. No-one really has illusion breaking powers in Bleach.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
I am now convinced you are medically retarded. Congratulations I wont make fun of you anymore. No fun in taunting an actual retard.

I know you are but what am I?


Originally posted by Q99
How about everyone stop insulting each other and just debate?

I did not make fun of him, at all.


And, no, I didn't report him, either.

I think he's a kid, so it'd be stupid for me to get upset over anything so I concluded to just to have fun.


Originally posted by Q99
---
Unohana did suspect something was up with Aizen's illusion when she checked the corpse, so it's not flawless, but it is pretty strong. No-one really has illusion breaking powers in Bleach. \


But, just as we suspected, sensing reiatesu/rieryoku IS a sixth sense. Yamamoto didn't fall for the illusion Aizen was doing by holding onto Aizen's sword after he was stabbed with it and he even said he could feel Aizen's spirit energy. So, just like we suspected, the Illusion really does affect the 5 senses, but senses above and beyond that are not affected beyond the ability of the person to disregard what he 5 senses are telling them.

How could Sharingan be a sixth sense? Its an eye technique involving vision. Its vision. Just becuase it can shoot illusions doesn't make it anything else. Is Heatvision another sense? Nope.

Sharingan does allow visual sensing of chakra, in addition to normal chakra-sensing methods that ninja have.

(btw, I assume you mean Kenpachi?)

Originally posted by dadudemon


I did not make fun of him, at all.


And, no, I didn't report him, either.

I think he's a kid, so it'd be stupid for me to get upset over anything so I concluded to just to have fun.

Whether or not you consider it an insult it's still sniping/countersniping that's not exactly conductive to debate.

Originally posted by Nephthys
How could Sharingan be a sixth sense? Its an eye technique involving vision. Its vision. Just becuase it can shoot illusions doesn't make it anything else. Is Heatvision another sense? Nope.

Yeah, heatvision would be an addtional sense if your primary vision sense was the "visible' spectrum."

Chakra/slight x-ray vision on top of regular vision is definitely an additional sense that is unlocked later in life. Being able to predict like magic, where someone is going to be, through the sharingan, is certainly a 7th sense above the first.

The chakra and complete X-ray vision of the byukugan is definitely a 6th sense.





Senses are things that allow you brain to interpret specific types of stimuli.


The primary 5 are really like 3 senses....but could be well over 10 sensory modalities, depending on how pedantic you want to get with it.

Somatosensory cortex is where it is at, yo.


Anyway, unless you're going to say that Aizen can produce the illusion for a sense that no-one in the Bleach-Verse has, you'd be wrong. Burden of proof is on you to prove that Aizen can falsify the chakra network of someone. Is chakra even mentioned once?




Originally posted by Q99
Whether or not you consider it an insult it's still sniping/countersniping that's not exactly conductive to debate.

Until my last post to him, where did I insult him?

Can people seriously just look at this from a logical, unbiased viewpoint? When i made this thread, i did so without actually having an opinion on which team would win the fight. As i started hearing other peoples opinion, i shifted heavily toward the Akatsuki because til this point, no one has yet to provide sufficient evidence which would lead me to believe that Aizen can resist Sharingan... or for that matter, that Sharingan user's can't resist his perfect hypnosis.

Just when i thought people were starting to think logically and accept that Sharingan user's had the edge, the irrational and completely unfounded proof that, "Aizen would never look anyone in the eye" started to surface.... gimme a break! When has Aizen ever shown his modus operandi to include the following... immediately pulling out his shikai in battle, or not being a smug and arrogant prick who ALWAYS looks people in the eye and talks incessantly about how superior he is?

FACT: Aizen has never once drawn his sword without knowing if he had to do so. Therefore, you can't make a character go outside of their typical procedure, just to make a point. Furthermore, it is a fact, that Itachi will activate genjutsu immediately... that's just how he operates in battle, it's his main tactic 'cause he never shuts his sharingan off.

Why is everyone so afraid to be wrong? I'll have no problem conceding when you can logically convince me that, Aizen's Suigetsu, which is based solely on the principle of distorting perception, would ever work on someone who's primary and most powerful form of defense, is perceiving and countering the changes in all aspects of reality.

Becuase I assume that CIS (character induced stupidity) is off, so Aizen won't act like an overconfident ass and will immediately try to unleash his most powerful attack as fast as possible.

PIS is default off, but CIS is default on.

No-one in Bleach goes right for their ultimate attack, ever

Even though it fails your own definition of a 'sense'? Is Spidermans webbing a sense? Is wolverines healing factor? Is Ichigos Getsuga Tensho a sense? No, they're abilities. Like the ability to stretch your arm or piss. Not senses.



Its regular vision put through a filter. Its still the optical nerves taking in information and passing it to the brain, they just alter to take in new information as well, nothing more.



That is certainly a factor (if I understand what you're saying). If Aizen fails to create the illusion of characters having chakra then they'd figure it out. Not that it matters becuase he could always just blind them if they rumble it, maybe get rid of their other senses too so they're effectively helpless. Knowing they're in an illusion won't help them much unless they have some way to brake out of it (idk, don't the Sharingan have the abilitie to see through illusions to some degree?).



Then they may actually lose. Bleach characters definately have all the typical anime drawbacks and idiocies, like standing perfectly still while their opponents unleash their transformation scenes or calling their attacks or, as you say, f'ing never going right to full throttle. The only one who will probably go right for the kill is Soi-Fon imo, maaaybe Gin.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Even though it fails your own definition of a 'sense'? Is Spidermans webbing a sense? Is wolverines healing factor? Is Ichigos Getsuga Tensho a sense? No, they're abilities. Like the ability to stretch your arm or piss. Not senses.

No, sense is detecting and processing stimuli. I made that quite clear already.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Its regular vision put through a filter. Its still the optical nerves taking in information and passing it to the brain, they just alter to take in new information as well, nothing more.


Sensing light and dark and then colors in the visible spectrum is what comprises our vision. Turning another sense on that senses an organisms chakra and chakra flow and also having slight x-ray capability would be 2 completely new senses associated with vision.


Technically, those are two completely different sensory modalities.

And, why would you down play the Sharingan like that? Don't you think that's a bit absurd, dude?

You make it seem like a simply filter for the eyes when it actually makes the person one of the deadliest and most effective type of ninja in the series.


It actually gives the user 3 different senses:

Chakra sense: being able to see chakra.
Slight X-ray capability.
Slight precog/reactionary ability: being able to predict movements and react to them.


That's a total of 8 senses: 3 addtional. The 3 additional are above and beyond what Aizen would affect. Also, we already know that the ability to sense spirit energy is not completely blocked out because Yamamoto was able to break his illusion quite quickly against Aizen as soon as he was stabbed. That pretty much puts a nail in the coffin of it really being limited to those 5 senses.

You're getting hung up on "sight" being one complete sense when that really is not the case at all. Five senses do not include senses above and beyond the visible light spectrum.


Originally posted by Nephthys
That is certainly a factor (if I understand what you're saying). If Aizen fails to create the illusion of characters having chakra then they'd figure it out. Not that it matters becuase he could always just blind them if they rumble it, maybe get rid of their other senses too so they're effectively helpless. Knowing they're in an illusion won't help them much unless they have some way to brake out of it (idk, don't the Sharingan have the abilitie to see through illusions to some degree?).

Aizen can only affect the 5 basic senses: above and beyond that, he cannot. He was not shown doing that ever and he was shown affecting the 5 basic senses.

The Sharingan allows a person to be immune to Genjutsu, from what I remember of that fight between kakashi and itachi. However, Itachi overpowered Kakashi by using a higher-evel eye technique: the MS.

imo i still think the captains take this very easily due to their power and abilities...and theirs also 2 ppl i think the sharingan wont affect at all ...and thats tousen (because he's blind) and gin(because he hardly ever opens his eyes)...and their bankai's can play a major role in helpin the captains win

Originally posted by dadudemon
The Sharingan, once activiated, becomes a sense outside of the 5 senses...can see chakra a bit...and can see through solid objects. pwned.
I thought we were assuming that chakra=reiatsu for this thread (otherwise the bleach characters would be invisible and this is even more of a stomp). Aizen can manipulate people from recognizing reiatsu (unless he stabs you, and you sense the sword itself), so sharingan shouldn't work either.

Originally posted by marwash22
When has Aizen ever shown his modus operandi to include the following... immediately pulling out his shikai in battle,
Barragan

Originally posted by King Kandy
I thought we were assuming that chakra=reiatsu for this thread (otherwise the bleach characters would be invisible and this is even more of a stomp). Aizen can manipulate people from recognizing reiatsu (unless he stabs you, and you sense the sword itself), so sharingan shouldn't work either.

When it activates, they aren't blind, yo.

Originally posted by dadudemon
When it activates, they aren't blind, yo.
You lost me there. What does that mean in regards to what I was saying?

Originally posted by King Kandy
Barragan


That's not true. Not even close.


Originally posted by King Kandy
You lost me there. What does that mean in regards to what I was saying?

I have no idea what I was thinking. Seriously. Sometimes, I plan out these elaborate arguments several replies in advance and it sometimes leads to an excellent point being made. I totally forgot where I was going with that: it's like there is a hole in the cloud surrounding this memory. Can't describe it...but it is like...blank. Sometimes, this happens to me.


If I remember, I'll post back in here.



Until then, Sharingan can see chakra which is spirit energy and physical energy. That means that it can quite easily see reiatesu and reiryoku...especially from powerhouses like Kenpachi and Ichigo.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That's not true. Not even close.




I have no idea what I was thinking. Seriously. Sometimes, I plan out these elaborate arguments several replies in advance and it sometimes leads to an excellent point being made. I totally forgot where I was going with that: it's like there is a hole in the cloud surrounding this memory. Can't describe it...but it is like...blank. Sometimes, this happens to me.


If I remember, I'll post back in here.



Until then, Sharingan can see chakra which is spirit energy and physical energy. That means that it can quite easily see reiatesu and reiryoku...especially from powerhouses like Kenpachi and Ichigo.


http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/371/07/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/371/08/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/371/09/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/371/11/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/371/12-13/

Originally posted by dw6xl
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/371/07/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/371/08/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/371/09/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/371/11/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/371/12-13/


Thanks for proving my point. Much obliged.

How did it prove your point?

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
How did it prove your point?

You just proved that Aizen did not immediately bust out his Shikai.

He immediately had Barragan look at his zampakuto... releasing is just a formality after that.

Originally posted by King Kandy
He immediately had Barragan look at his zampakuto... releasing is just a formality after that.

No he did not. WTF, dude?

Originally posted by dadudemon
No he did not. WTF, dude?
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/371/07/

He talked after this, yeah, but he could have released it anytime after this page and it would have been the same.

Because he would display his sword and tell everyone on the opposing team to look at it? Nahh.
It was said earlier, Aizen won't be looking at any one person. The same is the case for the members of the other team.

Him busting out his shikai at the start is pointless, considering they all have to have seen it release first for it to take effect. If he wants to betray his team and side with the Akatsuki, then sure, he could bust out his Shikai just as the fight starts.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Because he would display his sword and tell everyone on the opposing team to look at it? Nahh.
Why not?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
It was said earlier, Aizen won't be looking at any one person. The same is the case for the members of the other team.
If one of them comes to the front and uses his swords, yes eyes will probably be on him. Besides, you just need to see the release... unlike sharingan there's no need to be looking directly at it.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Why not?


If one of them comes to the front and uses his swords, yes eyes will probably be on him. Besides, you just need to see the release... unlike sharingan there's no need to be looking directly at it.

They aren't proud idiots like Barragan, they'd suspect something is up.

Once the fight starts, chances are that they'll all disperse instead of sending someone up front.

Your eyes needs to be focused on the release I think. I cannot properly make out something if it is in my peripheral vision.
If it is as you say though, it's more dangerous than I thought then.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
They aren't proud idiots like Barragan, they'd suspect something is up.

Once the fight starts, chances are that they'll all disperse instead of sending someone up front.

Your eyes needs to be focused on the release I think. I cannot properly make out something if it is in my peripheral vision.
If it is as you say though, it's more dangerous than I thought then.

he's right they arent gonna sit around and stare at aizen the whole time when theirs 12 other ppl their fighting...their not stupid...but whoever aizen does fight will most likely look at aizen's release out of curiosity like pretty much all anime..especially since they arent bloodlusted

lol it went from gotei 13 vs akatsuki to sharingan vs aizen's shikai......but imo bleach takes this due to hado and kido spam

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
They aren't proud idiots

That is ****ing hilarious

The majority of naruto and bleach characters ride the short bus


the only exceptions are raikage Killerbee and maybe shinkimaru

Plenty of Naruto characters use tactics and ambushes. Tricks in combat are a matter of course. They're also good at noticing and avoiding them, but double and triple deep deceptions are not unheard of, nor is stabbing someone in the back who's already engaged. Fighting with a partner is common.

Bleach is fairly firmly set in 'one-on-one, or occasionally two-on-one fights,' with some exceptions. The Gotei 13 is likely to each try and find a foe for themselves.

Originally posted by King Kandy
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/371/07/

He talked after this, yeah, but he could have released it anytime after this page and it would have been the same.

He talked an awful lot before he pulled out his sword. Like, a bunch n'stuff. I thought the other dude was proving me right because it was so ridiculously obvious that I was right. But, apparantly, he wasn't, and you still think Aizen releases immediately, which is no where near being correct: he doesn't even release it with a tad bit of quickness...he takes forever.


In fact, no Bleach character release with any sort of quickness: it's like...built into the standard operating procedures.

Originally posted by Q99
Plenty of Naruto characters use tactics and ambushes. Tricks in combat are a matter of course. They're also good at noticing and avoiding them, but double and triple deep deceptions are not unheard of, nor is stabbing someone in the back who's already engaged. Fighting with a partner is common.

Bleach is fairly firmly set in 'one-on-one, or occasionally two-on-one fights,' with some exceptions. The Gotei 13 is likely to each try and find a foe for themselves.

Last guy to use a trick was the bug guy who fought madara

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
That is ****ing hilarious

The majority of naruto and bleach characters ride the short bus


the only exceptions are raikage Killerbee and maybe shinkimaru

On the level of Hubris that Barragan has displayed? Nahh.

Barragan and Hubris go hand in hand. Even fools like Orochimaru can't compete with Barragan's haughtiness.
Szayel is the only one who could match Barragan in that department.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Last guy to use a trick was the bug guy who fought madara

Seems you've forgotten about Ao's skirmish with Fū, and Sasuke tricking Danzou.

Originally posted by dadudemon
In fact, no Bleach character release with any sort of quickness: it's like...built into the standard operating procedures.

Ya know, the first part of this statement, if taken a certain way, could please very many fangirls.

~ You are right though. It's like it is with most fights in manga. They duke it out for a bit, then slowly pull out their trump cards and stuff.

dunno why but your post made me laugh

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix

Seems you've forgotten about Ao's skirmish with Fū, and Sasuke tricking Danzou.
Ao and fu ring no bells.

And sasuke didnt trick Danzo he just exploited an obvious weakness

I call that Using your noggin

Ao is the byakugan guy from Mist, Fu is the member of Ino's clan with possession that's in Root.

Originally posted by marwash22

Also, you have failed to explain why Madara, Itachi or Sasuke wouldn't see through Aizen's hypnosis with the use of their Sharingan. Do you mean to tell me, that Shinji, who doe not possess the Sharingan, can see through Aizen's hypnosis, but Itachi, who does posses the Sharingan, cannot?

I'll be happy to concede the point and admit I'm wrong... provided you give me valid reasoning.

Uhh... ya made a mistake there, Shinji never saw through Suigetsu's ability. He simply made it much harder for Aizen to use it.

Another thing I feel important to stress is the fact that Tousen and Gin are in this fight, and both of them have abilities that wuld be devastating to anybody narutoverse.

However though, if ya ask me the first person to get kill in this fight is Toshiro

Originally posted by Anderson FTW!!!
Uhh... ya made a mistake there, Shinji never saw through Suigetsu's ability. He simply made it much harder for Aizen to use it. I don't get what you mean. During the TBTP arc, Shinji ripped apart Aizen's shikai illusion... much to the amazement of Aizen.

Originally posted by Anderson FTW!!!
Another thing I feel important to stress is the fact that Tousen and Gin are in this fight, and both of them have abilities that wuld be devastating to anybody narutoverse. Perhaps. I haven't given thought to it and i forget if it's been addressed.

Originally posted by marwash22
Can people seriously just look at this from a logical, unbiased viewpoint? When i made this thread, i did so without actually having an opinion on which team would win the fight. As i started hearing other peoples opinion, i shifted heavily toward the Akatsuki because til this point, no one has yet to provide sufficient evidence which would lead me to believe that Aizen can resist Sharingan... or for that matter, that Sharingan user's can't resist his perfect hypnosis.

Just when i thought people were starting to think logically and accept that Sharingan user's had the edge, the irrational and completely unfounded proof that, "Aizen would never look anyone in the eye" started to surface.... gimme a break! When has Aizen ever shown his modus operandi to include the following... immediately pulling out his shikai in battle, or not being a smug and arrogant prick who ALWAYS looks people in the eye and talks incessantly about how superior he is?

FACT: Aizen has never once drawn his sword without knowing if he had to do so. Therefore, you can't make a character go outside of their typical procedure, just to make a point. Furthermore, it is a fact, that Itachi will activate genjutsu immediately... that's just how he operates in battle, it's his main tactic 'cause he never shuts his sharingan off.

Why is everyone so afraid to be wrong? I'll have no problem conceding when you can logically convince me that, Aizen's Suigetsu, which is based solely on the principle of distorting perception, would ever work on someone who's primary and most powerful form of defense, is perceiving and countering the changes in all aspects of reality.

Truthfully marwash22, you and dadudemon are the only two people on this thread who sound afraid to be wrong

Gotei 13 stomp...

Originally posted by marwash22
I don't get what you mean. During the TBTP arc, Shinji ripped apart Aizen's shikai illusion... much to the amazement of Aizen.
.

Whoops, nevermind you were right. Guess I forgot about that.

not really. But that's your opinion, so no worries. tell me where my logic falters; i don't care enough about this to be stubborn, i just need facts to be swayed...

if you think about it...bleach takes this especially with current aizen & yamamoto's destructive abilities then you have to deal with multiple binding spells and hado spells that can turn the favor in the captains favor...also theirs komamura's bankai(while i dont think it would take anyone out due to being slow) that would get most of the attention due to its massive size which would kinda leave the akatsuki sort of distracted...then you have shunshi sneaking around into ppl's shadows and taking advantage of them having no knowledge ow whats going on....

In all honesty, as much as I want to root for the Gotei 13....the Akatsuki have more backing them up, feat wise anyway. Sure the captains of the Gotei 13 appear to be insanely fast and have bankais that could one-shot the majority of the Narutoverse....the grim thing about it is that they don't one-shot anything(or any opponent with significance).

Madara's apparently untouchable due to his hax sharingan abilities, Hidan is immortal and can even resist decapitation although whether or not he can resist being disintergrated has yet to be see. Itachi could spam some Susanoo however since its a chakra technique, maybe zanpakuto can get around it. Then there are Pein and Deidera, whom of which, have the best destruction feats.

However the captains have the speed advantage and that would presumably allow them to get more hits off. Plus there's Mayuri's bankai which could cause a problem for some of the more prominent members. Bleach would most likely win but if C4, Chibaku Tenshi, or one of Madara's warping techniques gets out then the Gotei 13 are pretty much done.

Once again...apologies for the lengh;I'm voting for the Gotei BTW

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
In all honesty, as much as I want to root for the Gotei 13....the Akatsuki have more backing them up, feat wise anyway. Sure the captains of the Gotei 13 appear to be insanely fast and have bankais that could one-shot the majority of the Narutoverse....the grim thing about it is that they don't one-shot anything(or any opponent with significance).

Madara's apparently untouchable due to his hax sharingan abilities, Hidan is immortal and can even resist decapitation although whether or not he can resist being disintergrated has yet to be see. Itachi could spam some Susanoo however since its a chakra technique, maybe zanpakuto can get around it. Then there are Pein and Deidera, whom of which, have the best destruction feats.

However the captains have the speed advantage and that would presumably allow them to get more hits off. Plus there's Mayuri's bankai which could cause a problem for some of the more prominent members. Bleach would most likely win but if C4, Chibaku Tenshi, or one of Madara's warping techniques gets out then the Gotei 13 are pretty much done.

Once again...apologies for the lengh;I'm voting for the Gotei BTW

while thats true i still think that bleach also could bind any one of the akatsuki befor they could do any significant damage....and also theirs also aizen's shikia, shunshi's shikai, gins bankai and last but certainly not least this:

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/393/04/

i dont see anyone tanking any of yamamoto's attack nor do i see anyone doing any real damage to the new aizen...but pein and itachi could pose a big threat

Originally posted by dw6xl
while thats true i still think that bleach also could bind any one of the akatsuki befor they could do any significant damage....and also theirs also aizen's shikia, shunshi's shikai, gins bankai and last but certainly not least this:

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/393/04/

This is true. To be honest, Byakuya and Gin alone would get most of the Akatsuki. The C4 and Chibaku Tenshi could spell trouble if they got out but I think the big three would be able to tank it. I still have no idea how they're going to get Madara and Hidan though. Itachi's Susanoo and inextinguishable Amateratsu would also be abit of trouble if they hit.

Adding Aizen's hougyoku amp is a bit too much in my opinion since its power is still in speculation.

aizen could get madara wit his shikai and make him think he won and turn back to normal and then they could get him...and as far as hidan...they could bind him to where he can't do nothin makin him useless

5 year bump!

Originally posted by marwash22
5 year bump!

For the love of God why?

Madara yawns and kills all of Bleach verse.

actually, Madara isn't in this fight. This thread was made when Tobi revealed himself to be Madara, so it's actually Obito, not Madara.


and i bumped it because there have been significant power changes in the last 5 years.

Honestly Naruto stands little chance given these are pre-War incarnations and post-War incarnations for Bleach.

it's current version of each character, sans outside upgrades like juubi for Obito or hogyoku for Aizen.

The Akatsuki team has Sasuke though. If we're using current versions wouldn't he bring in a decisive win for the Naruto team.

Aizen and yamma jii are a deadly combonation those two could pose a great threat to sasuke

zanka no tachi and kyokas hax