Superman vs. Void/Sentry

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JakeTheBank
Void/Sentry as per Siege #4. Possible spoilers for those who haven't read it.

Two Scenarios:

1.) Does Superman fare as good as Thor did, worse, or better if he were replaced with Thor completely in the context of issue?

2.) Conventional forum setting battle. PIS off.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
1.) Does Superman fare as good as Thor did, worse, or better if he were replaced with Thor completely in the context of issue?

2.) Conventional forum setting battle. PIS off.
1. Superman repeats it
2. Superman looses too.

Philosophía
Oh, Jake.

JakeTheBank

Omega Vision

Philosophía
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Oh, Philo

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I knew you'd come

thumb up

batdude123
laughing out loud

JakeTheBank
Someone didn't get the "No Homo" memo.

uhuh

Omega Vision
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Someone didn't get the "No Homo" memo.

uhuh
Phil refuses to accept the plain truth that adding no homo reverses any homosexual polarity. dur

Philosophía
Adding "No homo" is akin to having your cake and eating it too.

If you're thinking it, you're a hopless butt-thief, no matter how many 'no homo's you add.

Omega Vision

xJLxKing
Superman has a chance. Though, I think Void wins. Unlike, Thor, Superman doesn't have much exotic powers. His HV and physical attacks wont do much. His only option is to use the anti-frequency but not more then once.

Void wins a nice majority

quanchi112
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Superman has a chance. Though, I think Void wins. Unlike, Thor, Superman doesn't have much exotic powers. His HV and physical attacks wont do much. His only option is to use the anti-frequency but not more then once.

Void wins a nice majority Void doesn't lose a single matchup to any top tier unless he decides too. Void can reform and take Superman out at will via tendrils, MM powers, or just outlasting him.

kgkg
Superman will vibrate him out ya.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Hey Jake, I think Phil wants to eat your cake. Since he didn't add 'no homo' I think he means it. sick

sad

I scared.

xJLxKing
huh, I though you'd enjoy it.

Badabing
Originally posted by kgkg
Superman will vibrate him out ya. messed

Omega Vision
Originally posted by kgkg
Superman will vibrate him out ya.
Sounds dirty, also unlikely.

Lord Feron
Originally posted by Parmaniac
1. Superman repeats it
2. Superman looses too.

Blanket

753
1. If the void wants to die bad enough he could let the hv undo him and then stay dead like he did with the lightning blast (one could make a case that lightining blast would temp killing him regardless of his will though, but Im not among them).

But even in conditions like that, SM would be less willing to kill than thor, so more of his teammates and even himself might end up dead as the void lashes out in frustration.

2. Void crushes him

amnesia
It turned out to be PC supes, and he used heat vision. Void is dead for reals.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by amnesia
It turned out to be PC supes, and he used heat vision. Void is dead for reals. If it was PC Supes he would use anti-void vision

Johnny Sorrow
Sentry said he had control over his own molecules. Other than Molecule Man (who "tasted" his molecules), he never displayed molecular manipulation on any level (on other people or things). Am I crazy for thinking this?

753
Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Sentry said he had control over his own molecules. Other than Molecule Man (who "tasted" his molecules), he never displayed molecular manipulation on any level. Am I crazy for thinking this?

The void shape-shifted all the time and had some other miscelaneous matter manip/reality warping feats. Whenever the sentrey goes void it is a form of self-manipulation.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Sentry said he had control over his own molecules. Other than Molecule Man (who "tasted" his molecules), he never displayed molecular manipulation on any level (on other people or things). Am I crazy for thinking this? http://img163.imageshack.us/i/darkavengers12016.jpg/

Johnny Sorrow
Originally posted by Parmaniac
http://img163.imageshack.us/i/darkavengers12016.jpg/

Missed the part when I said "other than Molecule Man", in which the Void had a perfectly legitimate reason for showing that power.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Missed the part when I said "other than Molecule Man", in which the Void had a perfectly legitimate reason for showing that power. Oh I've misinterpretated what you've wrote sorry embarrasment

Johnny Sorrow
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Oh I've misinterpretated what you've wrote sorry embarrasment

If you do have a scan of Void using molecular manipulation on someone else, I'd gladly appreciate it. big grin

753
Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
If you do have a scan of Void using molecular manipulation on someone else, I'd gladly appreciate it. big grin

In DA 14 or 15 he warps his tower and the city beneath him. Anytime he changes shape he is also manipulating his own molecules and he has given himself the forms of a starfire humanoid; an armored, tentacled black monster; a shapeless storm of darkness; and a giant lice-thing.

Slaanesh
1) Supes win..
2) Void

bbrem123
supes gets stomped hard...and if sentry allow himself to be killed like he did with thor then yea i see supes HV doing the same that thors lightning did

Philosophía
Originally posted by Blanket
Superman wins.

Satisfied?

Bentley

753

quanchi112

shokosugi
Superman have defeated villains WAYYYYYYYY more powerful than this loser.

Bentley
Originally posted by shokosugi
Superman have defeated villains WAYYYYYYYY more powerful than this loser.


Not false.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Badabing
messed rolling on floor laughing

superman loses respectfully

iceman24567

quanchi112
Originally posted by shokosugi
Superman have defeated villains WAYYYYYYYY more powerful than this loser. He's also been defeated by people way less powerful than Void Sentry so......on a forum he loses and loses badly.

-Pr-
If i'd answered this at the end of Siege 3, i'd have been heavily siding for Sentry. After Siege 4, though, i can definitely see Superman getting a few wins.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
If i'd answered this at the end of Siege 3, i'd have been heavily siding for Sentry. After Siege 4, though, i can definitely see Superman getting a few wins. How?

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
How?

i'm willing to bet Superman can do a better job than the Helicarrier did.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He's also been defeated by people way less powerful than Void Sentry so......on a forum he loses and loses badly.

Like who?

bbrem123
better then loki with all norn stones? or amped thor or even MM...dont think so

iceman24567
Lois lanes vag no expression

Johnny Sorrow
Originally posted by bbrem123
better then loki with all norn stones? or amped thor or even MM...dont think so

Yep. Because I say so. That's how we debate on the KMC forums.

-Pr-
Originally posted by bbrem123
better then loki with all norn stones? or amped thor or even MM...dont think so

molecule man wasn't in siege, and thor wasn't that highly amped that i could see.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
i'm willing to bet Superman can do a better job than the Helicarrier did.



Like who? The helicarrier didn't defeat him, it jarred out bob who in turn saw what he did and wanted to be put down due to the guilt. He also easily smashed asgard while Thor stood by, overpowered the avengers, killed Loki and at the end only died when he wanted to.


Henshaw with sc rings, Atlas, Doomsday.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
The helicarrier didn't defeat him, it jarred out bob who in turn saw what he did and wanted to be put down due to the guilt. He also easily smashed asgard while Thor stood by, overpowered the avengers, killed Loki and at the end only died when he wanted to.


Henshaw with sc rings, Atlas, Doomsday.

i don't agree.

He eventually beat Henshaw. He lost to Atlas only because Atlas had help. The only Doomsday he ever lost to was H/P.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
i don't agree.

He eventually beat Henshaw. He lost to Atlas only because Atlas had help. The only Doomsday he ever lost to was H/P. We didn't see him overcome Henshaw on his own and we saw Henshaw beat him in the issue.

What help did Atlas have? At the end Superman got an amp to deal with Atlas.


Superman bfr'd DD with the league's help but it proved Supes needs to bfr him to beat him not that he can kill him.

Sentry's power level is leagues above Henshaw's with as many rings as you want to give the guy.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
We didn't see him overcome Henshaw on his own and we saw Henshaw beat him in the issue.

What help did Atlas have? At the end Superman got an amp to deal with Atlas.


Superman bfr'd DD with the league's help but it proved Supes needs to bfr him to beat him not that he can kill him.

Sentry's power level is leagues above Henshaw's with as many rings as you want to give the guy.

but he did beat Henshaw, as was stated.

Superman had the sun to help him, no actual amp. if you'd read the issue, you'd know that Superman was being cut off from his power source during the fight, giving Atlas the upper hand.

H/P? Back then, sure. that H/P was uber, though, and Superman has gotten much more powerful since then.

Johnny Sorrow
LOL at Sentry wanking. He has feats that wildly vary with his state of mind, and even his most impressive feats aren't that impressive. Flying through a floating city that was never proven to be any more durable than any current existing city? It only looks impressive because the entire city is in the air as it falls apart. Wonder Man could do that.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
but he did beat Henshaw, as was stated.

Superman had the sun to help him, no actual amp. if you'd read the issue, you'd know that Superman was being cut off from his power source during the fight, giving Atlas the upper hand.

H/P? Back then, sure. that H/P was uber, though, and Superman has gotten much more powerful since then. When? We saw Henshaw crush him. What line and what did we see?

That's due to his magical powers not outside help for the fight. Superman needed outside help to deal with him and if a character can cut off his power source then it sucks to be Superman. If Surfer drains the gamma it sucks to be Hulk not that he has outside help.

Superman's never gotten to the point of raping the gl corps or stomping apokolips with Darkseid included.

Bentley
Bah, go read Thor vs Sentry/Void (spoilers) thread, Jake and I pretty much ran the lapse around people who think only Sentry had PIS against him and people who don't make special rules for characters they like.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
LOL at Sentry wanking. He has feats that wildly vary with his state of mind, and even his most impressive feats aren't that impressive. Flying through a floating city that was never proven to be any more durable than any current existing city? It only looks impressive because the entire city is in the air as it falls apart. Wonder Man could do that. Ripping ares in half-not impressive right? Taking on the avengers with Thor on them isn't impressive right? Destroying Loki as easily as he did with a norn stone is not that impressive right? Overpowering the MM is not that impressive right?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Bentley
Bah, go read Thor vs Sentry/Void (spoilers) thread, Jake and I pretty much ran the lapse around people who think only Sentry had PIS against him and people who don't make special rules for characters they like. Really? Do you think Thor can beat the Void with this lightning blast at any time or do you think it had something to do with the fact he wanted to die?

Bentley
Originally posted by quanchi112
Really? Do you think Thor can beat the Void with this lightning blast at any time or do you think it had something to do with the fact he wanted to die?

I think he did not die just because he wanted to die. That's my stance.

I also think Void beats Thor.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Bentley
I think he did not die just because he wanted to die. That's my stance.

I also think Void beats Thor. He chose not to reform and just needed a killing blow. It's obvious because he was hit with blasts from Thor prior to and a lot worse than what actually took him out.

Johnny Sorrow
Originally posted by quanchi112
Ripping ares in half-not impressive right? Taking on the avengers with Thor on them isn't impressive right? Destroying Loki as easily as he did with a norn stone is not that impressive right? Overpowering the MM is not that impressive right?

Bloody, yes. Impressive? Eh. It was a spectacle, that's all.

I guess that puts him on the level of Taskmaster. And since the Young Avengers beat Kang, I guess that makes them more powerful than the Avengers who couldn't in the past. vin

Not really either. Loki isn't Thor in durability, unless the stones were granting him specific powers that the Void overcame.

MM was special circumstance: Sentry was actually controlling the molecules MM 'tasted', hence why he had better control over them than MM. It's why he didn't do the same thing to those characters in Siege: he couldn't.

iceman24567
The way they beat Kang was some bs

quanchi112
Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Bloody, yes. Impressive? Eh. It was a spectacle, that's all.

I guess that puts him on the level of Taskmaster. And since the Young Avengers beat Kang, I guess that makes them more powerful than the Avengers who couldn't in the past. vin

Not really either. Loki isn't Thor in durability, unless the stones were granting him specific powers that the Void overcame.

MM was special circumstance: Sentry was actually controlling the molecules MM 'tasted', hence why he had better control over them than MM. It's why he didn't do the same thing to those characters in Siege: he couldn't. bendis said he had reality matter manipulation powers and it's obvious he wsn't going to kill all of the avengers. Just because he didn't rip cap in half and chose to do so to Loki doesn't he couldn't. This is just terrible logic which you have to understand serves the purpose of the story not a battle board where good guys can die.


Your logic is I guess he could kill Loki but not Cap because he didn't so it means he couldn't. Just terrible.

Johnny Sorrow
Originally posted by iceman24567
The way they beat Kang was some bs

Ditto. It was to prove a point, one that poor quanchi still doesn't get.

Originally posted by quanchi112
bendis said he had reality matter manipulation powers and it's obvious he wsn't going to kill all of the avengers. Just because he didn't rip cap in half and chose to do so to Loki doesn't he couldn't. This is just terrible logic which you have to understand serves the purpose of the story not a battle board where good guys can die.


Your logic is I guess he could kill Loki but not Cap because he didn't so it means he couldn't. Just terrible.

See above.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Ditto. It was to prove a point, one that poor quanchi still doesn't get.



See above. Concession accepted. I guess guys who take on the avengers with aid from Loki doesn't impress you. Laughs.

bbrem123
Originally posted by -Pr-
molecule man wasn't in siege, and thor wasn't that highly amped that i could see.

molecule man was fight the same sentry as they were in siege so it really doesnt matter... and thor must have a a big amp...one stone made cap capable of hurting void so one can only image how power thor got. then you have loki with all of them get stomped with the slighted of ease

Naija boy
Originally posted by Bentley
Bah, go read Thor vs Sentry/Void (spoilers) thread, Jake and I pretty much ran the lapse around people who think only Sentry had PIS against him and people who don't make special rules for characters they like.


lmfao, ran the lapse around people? that is bordering on delusional. Its amazing that some peoples dislike of the Void/Sentry character is making them attempt to outrightly disregard his shown capabilities. I mean i dont care much for the character either but the capabilities he showed r really undeniable. he convincingly wins this fight as well as a fight as well as fights against other high heralds, (thor, surfer etc)

bbrem123
thank you ^

Johnny Sorrow
Originally posted by Naija boy
lmfao, ran the lapse around people? that is bordering on delusional. Its amazing that some peoples dislike of the Void/Sentry character is making them attempt to outrightly disregard his shown capabilities. I mean i dont care much for the character either but the capabilities he showed r really undeniable. he convincingly wins this fight as well as a fight as well as fights against other high heralds, (thor, surfer etc)

That actually brings up a good point.

What has Sentry/Void actually done to put him on the level of people like the Surfer? Do list feats.

bbrem123
r u serious? no expression

Johnny Sorrow
Originally posted by bbrem123
r u serious?

i r serious

I haven't seen the Void beat Uni-Lord and time-travel, so I'm suspicious.

the ninjak
Superman can't keep Void down.

V/S will kill Supes.

bbrem123
ive seen him manhandle thor...and ive seen thor beat surfer

i also saw void manhandle MM who shook the multiverse

bbrem123
ive seen him take on strange, thor, reed and manyyyyy others at once and they were all helpless...strange has done more ridiculous stuff then surf and thor rivals anything surfer has done. and reed has done the most ridiculous of them all but failed to stop void....hmmmm

Johnny Sorrow
Originally posted by bbrem123
ive seen him manhandle thor...and ive seen thor beat surfer

i also saw void manhandle MM who shook the multiverse

To be fair, Surfer has had ~50 years of feats to compare.

ABC logic does not compute. I've already pointed this out in several of the other Void threads. If you believe what you've said, then by your logic the Young Avengers are more powerful than past Avenger teams (because they beat Kang when the others couldn't) and that Nova is more powerful than the reality-warping Sphinx.

Molecule Man was extremely weakened in his appearance. Even Daken was resisting his power.

Originally posted by bbrem123
ive seen him take on strange, thor, reed and manyyyyy others at once and they were all helpless...strange has done more ridiculous stuff then surf and thor rivals anything surfer has done. and reed has done the most ridiculous of them all but failed to stop void....hmmmm

I recall the appearance you're talking about, and you're wrong again. They weren't "helpless" at all, but they couldn't affect it because it originated from Bob's mind and they weren't going to kill him.

kgkg
Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Molecule Man was extremely weakened in his appearance. Even Daken was resisting his power. no expression

Naija boy
Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
That actually brings up a good point.

What has Sentry/Void actually done to put him on the level of people like the Surfer? Do list feats.

When he finally began realizing his full powers, he was able to out-molecular manip the molecule man who is a molecular manipulator several several degress higher than Surfer (and molecular manip is usually surfers thing) causing him to disintegrate and then was able to easily do the same thing to Loki with the norn stones amping him (Loki who himself has high level matter manipulation). plus his casual handling of thor and the rest of the avengers.

Im one of surfers biggest supporters on this forum but i know that he definitely hasnt shown to be able to match someone like molecule man matter manip ( and there was no mentioning of molecule man being weakened in that scenario, let alone weakened to a point that would put him at herald level) wise let alone overcome him. Similarly he cant casually disperse a being as powerful as Loki let alone while he is amped. In a fight between Void sentry and Surfer/Thor/Superman i really dont see how they can avoid the same thing happenining to them.

bbrem123
Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
To be fair, Surfer has had ~50 years of feats to compare.

ABC logic does not compute. I've already pointed this out in several of the other Void threads. If you believe what you've said, then by your logic the Young Avengers are more powerful than past Avenger teams (because they beat Kang when the others couldn't) and that Nova is more powerful than the reality-warping Sphinx.

Molecule Man was extremely weakened in his appearance. Even Daken was resisting his power.



I recall the appearance you're talking about, and you're wrong again. They weren't "helpless" at all, but they couldn't affect it because it originated from Bob's mind and they weren't going to kill him.

MM was weakened? says who u? haha it says nowhere that he was weakened. Daken didnt stand a chance come on now.

yes they were helpless...go read the first series of sentry please...no hero has beat void yet to this day except for sentry.(which is himself)

JakeTheBank
Anyone with common sense can tell Molecule Man per Dark Avengers was one of his lowest showings he's ever had.

bbrem123
why? because void beat him?

he was making everybody his ***** until sentry stomped him

he was turning people into water...how is that stuff low?

JakeTheBank
Low for Molecule Man based on feats.

jalek moye
Not just any water man. Angry Water!! eek!

bbrem123
doesnt mean he was weaker tho...he doesnt need to shake the universe everytime he fights

Johnny Sorrow
Originally posted by Naija boy
When he finally began realizing his full powers, he was able to out-molecular manip the molecule man who is a molecular manipulator several several degress higher than Surfer (and molecular manip is usually surfers thing) causing him to disintegrate and then was able to easily do the same thing to Loki with the norn stones amping him (Loki who himself has high level matter manipulation). plus his casual handling of thor and the rest of the avengers.

Im one of surfers biggest supporters on this forum but i know that he definitely hasnt shown to be able to match someone like molecule man matter manip wise let alone overcome him. Similarly he cant casually disperse a being as powerful as Loki let alone while he is amped.

You have SS in your sig and you're a SS fan, which makes me regret destroying your argument. We could have been friends.
big grin

People are funny when they cite the Sentry's feats. It's like they mystically forget the entire context of the feat, and they leave out all the relevant information.

Feat: the Void beats MM and sends him away.

What everyone forgets:
A) Owen Reece mentions that he 'tasted' Bob's molecules some time before the feat. Right after the feat Bob mentions how he just discovered that he can control his own molecules. Noting how the Void has no significant feats of molecular manipulation beyond someone associated with his own molecules, we can conclude that he can control his molecular structure but not necessarily control that of others. He most likely beat Reece by manipulating his own molecules within him.

Also, the feat in itself is not proof of "higher degrees" of anything. Beyond blowing MM up and sending him away, the Void hasn't demonstrated precision control of his powers. Surfer has transmuted things and created structures from thin air with his powers, broken matter down into energy and back to matter. The Void has done nothing similar beyond affecting himself.

B) "Defeating Loki" is a feat that we cannot judge straightaway. The phrase itself means nothing to prove someone's power. Thor has beaten Loki by tapping his arm with Mjolnir, and in other times had to work hard for it. Suspicious how Loki bargained with Mephisto and Hela to make himself essentially immortal right before he was "killed". It may be that he faked his own death.

If you think the Void's feats are better than the Surfer's, you're not a big enough Surfer fan. I've already mentioned his feats in other threads: exploding a planet to prove a point to Ravenous, accelerating the evolution of an entire planet, reconstructing Earth when weakened, beating Uni-Lord, etc.

Ambient
No because full powered MM = Beyonder .. multiversal level in power..

Did it took Multiversal power to own Void Sentry? NO.. Should say a lot..

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by bbrem123
doesnt mean he was weaker tho...he doesnt need to shake the universe everytime he fights

It means it was very low showing for Molecule Man while at the same being a very high showing for Sentry/Void. If you want to go High for High End Feats, Surfer completely stomps Void. As would Thor, Superman, and lots of High Heralds.

As is, we don't simply use "BEST FEATS EVER FTW" debating. Or we shouldn't, anyway.

bbrem123
Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
You have SS in your sig and you're a SS fan, which makes me regret destroying your argument. We could have been friends.
big grin

People are funny when they cite the Sentry's feats. It's like they mystically forget the entire context of the feat, and they leave out all the relevant information.

Feat: the Void beats MM and sends him away.

What everyone forgets:
A) Owen Reece mentions that he 'tasted' Bob's molecules some time before the feat. Right after the feat Bob mentions how he just discovered that he can control his own molecules. Noting how the Void has no significant feats of molecular manipulation beyond someone associated with his own molecules, we can conclude that he can control his molecular structure but not necessarily control that of others. He most likely beat Reece by manipulating his own molecules within him.

Also, the feat in itself is not proof of "higher degrees" of anything. Beyond blowing MM up and sending him away, the Void hasn't demonstrated precision control of his powers. Surfer has transmuted things and created structures from thin air with his powers, broken matter down into energy and back to matter. The Void has done nothing similar beyond affecting himself.

B) "Defeating Loki" is a feat that we cannot judge straightaway. The phrase itself means nothing to prove someone's power. Thor has beaten Loki by tapping his arm with Mjolnir, and in other times had to work hard for it. Suspicious how Loki bargained with Mephisto and Hela to make himself essentially immortal right before he was "killed". It may be that he faked his own death.

If you think the Void's feats are better than the Surfer's, you're not a big enough Surfer fan. I've already mentioned his feats in other threads: exploding a planet to prove a point to Ravenous, accelerating the evolution of an entire planet, reconstructing Earth when weakened, beating Uni-Lord, etc.

sentry says he can control the molecules of his world...not just his body..nice try tho!...he was also showing he can control molecules by making the little werewolf in his hand.(so he definitely has some control). say surfer has better molecule manipulation is just foolish

the ninjak
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Anyone with common sense can tell Molecule Man per Dark Avengers was one of his lowest showings he's ever had.

I don't understand this....

He was as powerful as ever.

He was just depressed and had become a recluse. He didn't kill such powerful heroes because he just wanted to be left alone and killing heroes would've resulted in more trespassing onto his land. That's why he opened a diplomatic conversation with Osborne.

Who in turn told him that if he killed his Avengers people like Reed Richards would have created some kind of doomsday weapon to put him down.

MM tried to play nice in his own sick way and failed when Sentry evolved to his next level and crushed him.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by the ninjak
I don't understand this....

He was as powerful as ever.

He was just depressed and had become a recluse. He didn't kill such powerful heroes because he just wanted to be left alone and killing heroes would've resulted in more trespassing onto his land. That's why he opened a diplomatic conversation with Osborne.

Who in turn told him that if he killed his Avengers people like Reed Richards would have created some kind of doomsday weapon to put him down.

MM tried to play nice in his own sick way and failed when Sentry evolved to his next level and crushed him.

Right.

And it was a low showing for Molecule Man based on the numerous feats he has under his belt.

bbrem123
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It means it was very low showing for Molecule Man while at the same being a very high showing for Sentry/Void. If you want to go High for High End Feats, Surfer completely stomps Void. As would Thor, Superman, and lots of High Heralds.

As is, we don't simply use "BEST FEATS EVER FTW" debating. Or we shouldn't, anyway.

it is is power man...molecule manipulation is what he does. it doesnt make it a high showing for him and a low showing for MM. Void is just better at it then MM that is it. That is why they made the comic to show this. and no surfer feats dont.

bbrem123
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Right.

And it was a low showing for Molecule Man based on the numerous feats he has under his belt.

no it just show sentry is more powerful

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by bbrem123
it is is power man...molecule manipulation is what he does. it doesnt make it a high showing for him and a low showing for MM. Void is just better at it then MM that is it. That is why they made the comic to show this. and no surfer feats dont.

I fail to see what's hard to grasp about what I'm saying.

Void beating Molecule Man at his own game is a HUGE feat for him, correct? Probably his single best feat ever. Molecule Man being beaten by someone who just learned how to do the same gimmick he's been known for is likewise a LOW feat for him. That's really not up for debate.

And yes, Surfer's high end feats trump what Sentry did.

Ambient
So your saying sentry is multiversal level, i mean his compared to one who is at that level heck > it..

753
Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
You have SS in your sig and you're a SS fan, which makes me regret destroying your argument. We could have been friends.
big grin

People are funny when they cite the Sentry's feats. It's like they mystically forget the entire context of the feat, and they leave out all the relevant information.

Feat: the Void beats MM and sends him away.

What everyone forgets:
A) Owen Reece mentions that he 'tasted' Bob's molecules some time before the feat. Right after the feat Bob mentions how he just discovered that he can control his own molecules. Noting how the Void has no significant feats of molecular manipulation beyond someone associated with his own molecules, we can conclude that he can control his molecular structure but not necessarily control that of others. He most likely beat Reece by manipulating his own molecules within him.

Also, the feat in itself is not proof of "higher degrees" of anything. Beyond blowing MM up and sending him away, the Void hasn't demonstrated precision control of his powers. Surfer has transmuted things and created structures from thin air with his powers, broken matter down into energy and back to matter. The Void has done nothing similar beyond affecting himself.

B) "Defeating Loki" is a feat that we cannot judge straightaway. The phrase itself means nothing to prove someone's power. Thor has beaten Loki by tapping his arm with Mjolnir, and in other times had to work hard for it. Suspicious how Loki bargained with Mephisto and Hela to make himself essentially immortal right before he was "killed". It may be that he faked his own death.

If you think the Void's feats are better than the Surfer's, you're not a big enough Surfer fan. I've already mentioned his feats in other threads: exploding a planet to prove a point to Ravenous, accelerating the evolution of an entire planet, reconstructing Earth when weakened, beating Uni-Lord, etc.

He explictly states his powers actually work by manipulating the world arround him, molecules specifically; he desintegrates molecule man who screams: "I control the molecules of the world! I do!" expressing shock and implying sentry is wrestling control over his molecules from him; he clearly says he can do anything the molecule man can but lacks the experience and sophistication to do it; he makes a werewolf in the palm of his hand out of thin air; he warps the city of new york, his tower in particular; he desintegrates loki - art makes it clear enough that he is being desintegrated.

More importantly, the MM did not actually eat parts of the sentry, he had no sentry molecules within him for sentry to manipulate, this is absurd. He says 'taste' to represent that he experienced the sentry's molecule with his powers, he took nothing of sentry within himself. He made similar remarks when he desintegrated SS board, mjolnir and CA shield. He obviously has beyond-human senses that let him perceive the properties of matter without contact.

bbrem123
its low because it is the sentry? sentry has MM of a higher order then MM does...it doesnt make it low for him...its like saying galactus losing to LT is a low showing for galactus when its not because he is not a powerful

the ninjak
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I fail to see what's hard to grasp about what I'm saying.

Void beating Molecule Man at his own game is a HUGE feat for him, correct? Probably his single best feat ever. Molecule Man being beaten by someone who just learned how to do the same gimmick he's been known for is likewise a LOW feat for him. That's really not up for debate.

I agree.

I just don't agree when people say MM's powerset was dampened. It wasn't, just his urge to fight.

And I reckon Sentry beating MM wasn't in the end fair.
Sentry attacked him from behind and got a good lock on him before MM could get equal footing.

Sentry fought dirty and rightly so! If the fight was fair with both combatants staring at each other from across a field then the fight would probably gone in favour of MM.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
When? We saw Henshaw crush him. What line and what did we see?

That's due to his magical powers not outside help for the fight. Superman needed outside help to deal with him and if a character can cut off his power source then it sucks to be Superman. If Surfer drains the gamma it sucks to be Hulk not that he has outside help.

Superman's never gotten to the point of raping the gl corps or stomping apokolips with Darkseid included.

at the end of the fight, henshaw was on the ground. kal wasn't. fights happen off panel all the time.

Atlas had outside help. To say he didn't when he obviously did is border-line trolling.

He has higher feats than Doomsday. Don't even TRY to go there.

Originally posted by bbrem123
molecule man was fight the same sentry as they were in siege so it really doesnt matter... and thor must have a a big amp...one stone made cap capable of hurting void so one can only image how power thor got. then you have loki with all of them get stomped with the slighted of ease

read my original post again, please.

cdtm
T-vo stick out tongue

*Ducks*

psycho gundam
now your face is closer to our feet

-Pr-
Originally posted by cdtm
T-vo stick out tongue

*Ducks*

laughing out loud

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by -Pr-
at the end of the fight, henshaw was on the ground. kal wasn't. fights happen off panel all the time.

Atlas had outside help. To say he didn't when he obviously did is border-line trolling.

He has higher feats than Doomsday. Don't even TRY to go there.



read my original post again, please.

Where did you get the image for your sig, PR?

Ambient
Originally posted by bbrem123
its low because it is the sentry? sentry has MM of a higher order then MM does...it doesnt make it low for him...its like saying galactus losing to LT is a low showing for galactus when its not because he is not a powerful
Its low for him because weve seen him at his normal level = multiversal in power and for him to lose to someone who was beaten by a far lesser in level of attack compared to his own speaks volume of PIS.. Just my two cents..

bbrem123
Originally posted by -Pr-
at the end of the fight, henshaw was on the ground. kal wasn't. fights happen off panel all the time.

Atlas had outside help. To say he didn't when he obviously did is border-line trolling.

He has higher feats than Doomsday. Don't even TRY to go there.



read my original post again, please.

the one where u think supes can take some wins?...cuz he stomp here and hard.

or the thor not being that amped..cuz i was jsut pointing out to u that it was give huge amps to other so why not thor too.

-Pr-
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Where did you get the image for your sig, PR?

http://www.comicsalliance.com/2010/04/12/lego-dc-marvel-star-trek-farinas

i'd have gone with the others, but neither of them was really working as a sig. no cyclops, which annoyed me.

Originally posted by bbrem123
the one where u think supes can take some wins?...cuz he stomp here and hard.

or the thor not being that amped..cuz i was jsut pointing out to u that it was give huge amps to other so why not thor too.

my first one, where i stated that i felt the Siege 3 Void was more threatening than the Siege 4 one.

the amp (supposedly) wore off when loki was done away with, from my pov.

psycho gundam
maybe thor two shotted sentry since he didn't have to hold back being so near to asgard anylonger.

iceman24567
Originally posted by psycho gundam
maybe thor two shotted sentry since he didn't have to hold back being so near to asgard anylonger. i confused What the f**k?

bbrem123
Originally posted by Ambient
Its low for him because weve seen him at his normal level = multiversal in power and for him to lose to someone who was beaten by a far lesser in level of attack compared to his own speaks volume of PIS.. Just my two cents..

i see what u mean...but then again it didnt need to get to that level maybe because void was just more powerful and overwhelmed him to quickly...who know where void really stands tho power wise...we still dont kno anything about him because of bendis!

bbrem123
Originally posted by -Pr-
http://www.comicsalliance.com/2010/04/12/lego-dc-marvel-star-trek-farinas

i'd have gone with the others, but neither of them was really working as a sig. no cyclops, which annoyed me.



my first one, where i stated that i felt the Siege 3 Void was more threatening than the Siege 4 one.

the amp (supposedly) wore off when loki was done away with, from my pov.

i think the amp was gone when loki died...cuz u could still the the rainbow around the heroes

-Pr-
Originally posted by bbrem123
i think the amp was gone when loki died...cuz u could still the the rainbow around the heroes

you do or don't think?

cdtm
Originally posted by Ambient
Its low for him because weve seen him at his normal level = multiversal in power and for him to lose to someone who was beaten by a far lesser in level of attack compared to his own speaks volume of PIS.. Just my two cents..

No offense, but by that logic you could kill a lot of feats. Surtur beating Odin? Not impressive, because galaxies weren't being blown apart as in Odins highest feats, and Surtur never proved he could busts multiple galaxies (The most he busted was the core of a dead galaxy...)

Given Sentry's ill defined power cap, and some feats that do exceed even Surfers (Can you see Surfer standing against the army of heroes Sentry/Void did, including Dr. Strange? Can you see Surfer tanking Terrax's attack, like Thanos might?), I think Sentry/Void is simply meant to be that powerful.

The fact he didn't have the level of control that MM had, doesn't mean he didn't have the raw power necessary to defeat him.. It just means he's not very intelligent with his powers...

bbrem123
the amp was gone when loki died. yes

thats why spiderman said they were screwed lol

the ninjak
I'm fascinated to find out what happens to Loki after the deal he made with Mephisto and Hela.

bbrem123
yea me too...i wonder what he is up to

cdtm
Originally posted by the ninjak
I'm fascinated to find out what happens to Loki after the deal he made with Mephisto and Hela.

Like I said, death is a mere inconvenience to Loki. He'll definitely be back.

I don't think Sentry going nuts, destroying Asgard, and killing him is part of his plan though.. But I do believe he had a plan.

Ambient
Originally posted by bbrem123
i see what u mean...but then again it didnt need to get to that level maybe because void was just more powerful and overwhelmed him to quickly...who know where void really stands tho power wise...we still dont kno anything about him because of bendis!
Fair enough...

it would be cool if its similar to marduk's level or maybe it is marduk, that be diff. uber, kinda on par to Thanos in ways..

bbrem123
Originally posted by cdtm
Like I said, death is a mere inconvenience to Loki. He'll definitely be back.

I don't think Sentry going nuts, destroying Asgard, and killing him is part of his plan though.. But I do believe he had a plan.
lol

bbrem123
i wonder if they are gonna explain more about the sentry now after his "death"

and what the hell was in the diary!

-Pr-
Originally posted by bbrem123
the amp was gone when loki died. yes

thats why spiderman said they were screwed lol

then we agree on that much.

shokosugi
Thor killed Void/Sentry. period.


Superman > Thor

therefore

Superman >> Void/Sentry

zeel
Originally posted by -Pr-
but he did beat Henshaw, as was stated.

Superman had the sun to help him, no actual amp. if you'd read the issue, you'd know that Superman was being cut off from his power source during the fight, giving Atlas the upper hand.

H/P? Back then, sure. that H/P was uber, though, and Superman has gotten much more powerful since then.


I would consider the sun a mighty powerful amp indeed.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by shokosugi
Thor killed Void/Sentry. period.


Superman > Thor

therefore

Superman >> Void/Sentry

That's retarded.

shokosugi
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
That's retarded.



Yeah. it is. This match up is beneath Superman.


A b-level monster who got demolished by a b-level asgardian fighting Superman?? HILARIOUS!

-Pr-
Originally posted by zeel
I would consider the sun a mighty powerful amp indeed.

how? he got recharged. not amped.

Originally posted by shokosugi
Yeah. it is. This match up is beneath Superman.


A b-level monster who got demolished by a b-level asgardian fighting Superman?? HILARIOUS!

stop trolling.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by iceman24567
i confused What the f**k? so am i.... nevermind

Ambient
Originally posted by cdtm
No offense, but by that logic you could kill a lot of feats. Surtur beating Odin? Not impressive, because galaxies weren't being blown apart as in Odins highest feats, and Surtur never proved he could busts multiple galaxies (The most he busted was the core of a dead galaxy...)

Given Sentry's ill defined power cap, and some feats that do exceed even Surfers (Can you see Surfer standing against the army of heroes Sentry/Void did, including Dr. Strange? Can you see Surfer tanking Terrax's attack, like Thanos might?), I think Sentry/Void is simply meant to be that powerful.

The fact he didn't have the level of control that MM had, doesn't mean he didn't have the raw power necessary to defeat him.. It just means he's not very intelligent with his powers...
But didnt the multiverse shook in that fight..lol

its not the actual display of power i am ref. too but power that the char. hold, there is just too much of a diff. in power Between MM (lost to Sentry)and Thor (who Sentry lost to) that one can question the feat being discuss.

Bloodlusted Surfer could diff. pull a move to take them out in one shot, short of destroying that world or a blackhole, it is within his powerset.. And yes Surfer tank and toy'ed with Terrax..

Putting Sentry above MM/Beyonder is silly, the char. never displayed power to that magnitude short of defeating MM, which is again in question; round, round and round we go..lol

Naija boy
Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
You have SS in your sig and you're a SS fan, which makes me regret destroying your argument. We could have been friends.
big grin

People are funny when they cite the Sentry's feats. It's like they mystically forget the entire context of the feat, and they leave out all the relevant information.

Feat: the Void beats MM and sends him away.

What everyone forgets:
A) Owen Reece mentions that he 'tasted' Bob's molecules some time before the feat. Right after the feat Bob mentions how he just discovered that he can control his own molecules. Noting how the Void has no significant feats of molecular manipulation beyond someone associated with his own molecules, we can conclude that he can control his molecular structure but not necessarily control that of others. He most likely beat Reece by manipulating his own molecules within him.

Also, the feat in itself is not proof of "higher degrees" of anything. Beyond blowing MM up and sending him away, the Void hasn't demonstrated precision control of his powers. Surfer has transmuted things and created structures from thin air with his powers, broken matter down into energy and back to matter. The Void has done nothing similar beyond affecting himself.

B) "Defeating Loki" is a feat that we cannot judge straightaway. The phrase itself means nothing to prove someone's power. Thor has beaten Loki by tapping his arm with Mjolnir, and in other times had to work hard for it. Suspicious how Loki bargained with Mephisto and Hela to make himself essentially immortal right before he was "killed". It may be that he faked his own death.

If you think the Void's feats are better than the Surfer's, you're not a big enough Surfer fan. I've already mentioned his feats in other threads: exploding a planet to prove a point to Ravenous, accelerating the evolution of an entire planet, reconstructing Earth when weakened, beating Uni-Lord, etc.

lol, if ur an SS fan then we will be friends eventually.

Now to ur supposed destruction of my argument.heh

A.) Really that is pure conjecture on ur part, and it can hardly be called leaving out context or relevant information, Owen reece mentions that he has tasted "all the molecules in the world" but that he has never tasted any like the Sentrys before, He then goes on to say that by tasted he means experienced. Hence we cannnot conclude that Sentry beat reece by controlling his own molecules within reece because, by "tasted" reece did not mean that the molecules had actually become a part of him but rather that he had felt/experienced evry single molecule of the world. The only way ur theory would work would be if all the molecules reece claims to have experienced actually became a part of him, (which would basically be all the molecules in the world by his own admission), and this is unfortunately not supported by actual on panel evidence.

B). Note, that "defeating loki" is not how im choosing to describe the feat because "defeat" is a general term and could come in many different manners which may or may not show his superiority. Hence, thor has shown to "defeat" loki in the past using a various methods. However, in this scenario its pretty clear cut, as its not the simple defeat of Loki in an of itself that is relevant but rather, the fact that he simply disintegrated and dispersed him while he was amped by the norn stones too boot. This was done in a manner identical to what was done to molecule man as well and further lends credence to his matter manipulation abilities. Loki faking his own death while an interesting postulation is just that and therefore cannot be substituted for an actual on panel occurence without concrete evidence indicating that he actually did fake his death. Perhaps it may arise in the future but as of now, no such evidence exists. Consequently the sentry/void feat should be taken as portrayed without adding unecessary and unseen circumstances to it.

lol, im actually probably in the running for being the biggest SS fan on this board (strong competition comes from darthgoober, Ambient, and KgKg though). I contributed to his respect thread and heck i pretty sure i know all his feats by heart so u certainly dont need to inform me about what he has accomplished. That being said, while SS has undoubtedly accomplished more and has a wider range of feats, i dont see any except perhaps his absolute highest matching the difficulty of Void/sentrys molecule man feat (even then its highly questionable). Moreover in the area of molecule manipulation specifically, while he definitely does have more skill in that regard seeing as void/sentry was by his own admission inexperienced with his powers, in terms of sheer difficulty, i once again dont see him as having any feats to match or exceed the literal disintegration of the freaking molecule man. Subsequently i dont see any way in which SS can counter this form of attack if a molecule manipulator several magnitudes higher than him could not.

Philosophía
Originally posted by Bentley
Bah, go read Thor vs Sentry/Void (spoilers) thread, Jake and I pretty much ran the lapse around people who think only Sentry had PIS against him and people who don't make special rules for characters they like. Wait, what? laughing out loudOriginally posted by Naija boy
lmfao, ran the lapse around people? that is bordering on delusional.

Philosophía
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Anyone with common sense can tell Molecule Man per Dark Avengers was one of his lowest showings he's ever had. This again?

What was the "lowest showing he's ever had", Void beating him, which is exactly what you want to disprove as impressive? That's a hilarious circular argument.

You: Molecule Man was at one of his lowest showings there, so Void beating him is not impressive.

Logic: Why was he at one of his lowest showings?

You: Because Void beat him.

Juntai

Philosophía
He wasn't actually overpowered at his own game, molecular control, as Void did to him. Most of those showings are either taken out of context - like where he gets knocked out by Doom, iirc he was powerless, but his powers kicked in subconsciously and thus why he was saved -, plot-devicey -like the Watcher locking him into a total void (heh) which is more like an inserted weakness, but which still doesn't really have a bearing on his actual powerlevel - or from a time when he hadn't unlocked the true potential of his powers, like the showing against Captain America, but when he was still shown as transmutating Thor's hammer and being better than Surfer, iirc. And the reporter randomly saying that he is as powerful as Surfer, well..I don't really need to even laugh at that.

Point is, Void has beaten Molecule Man at his own strength -- molecular control, which puts him at a level far above 'top tiers'. Captain America beating a version that was inferior to this one (but, like I said, still proved superior to Thor and Surfer iirc) and the Watcher exploiting an out-of-the-blue weakness doesn't change that.

Philosophía
I just checked and yes, even before Secret Wars when Beyonder showed him what he can truly do, Molecule Man easily beat the Avengers line-up consisting of Thor, Silver Surfer, Iron Man and Captain America, desintegrating Thor's hammer and Surfer's board (along with Captain America's shield) casually, with him specifically and repeatedly being shown and stated to be far superior to Silver Surfer.

And yes, that's the same issue where Captain America beats him and Donald Blake busts his nose. After he reverts to a more calmer state he again, casually re-creates Thor's hammer and Surfer's board and leaves.

And I repeat, that version is inferior to the one after Beyonder unlocked his true potential and Sentry casually overpowered at his own game.

OneDumbG0
^ thumb up

Warlord
Superman dies in a PISless fight.

other than that he beats him because of his being the most important character WB has ever filmed

753
Originally posted by Warlord
Superman dies in a PISless fight.

other than that he beats him because of his being the most important character WB has ever filmed

tsc tsc

the goddamn batman, son

So nobody seriously believes SM can win in a forum fight against void right?

Johnny Sorrow
Originally posted by bbrem123
sentry says he can control the molecules of his world...not just his body..nice try tho!...he was also showing he can control molecules by making the little werewolf in his hand.(so he definitely has some control). say surfer has better molecule manipulation is just foolish

He says he can control his own molecules. Making the werewolf in his hands is evidence of that. He's supposed to be better at it than Molecule Man, yet he can't duplicate MM's feats during the arc? He needed to force MM to bring the people back, when he allegedly could have done it himself. Yet you'll claim that he was doing it to intimidate MM or some bull.

Originally posted by 753
He explictly states his powers actually work by manipulating the world arround him, molecules specifically; he desintegrates molecule man who screams: "I control the molecules of the world! I do!" expressing shock and implying sentry is wrestling control over his molecules from him; he clearly says he can do anything the molecule man can but lacks the experience and sophistication to do it; he makes a werewolf in the palm of his hand out of thin air; he warps the city of new york, his tower in particular; he desintegrates loki - art makes it clear enough that he is being desintegrated.

More importantly, the MM did not actually eat parts of the sentry, he had no sentry molecules within him for sentry to manipulate, this is absurd. He says 'taste' to represent that he experienced the sentry's molecule with his powers, he took nothing of sentry within himself. He made similar remarks when he desintegrated SS board, mjolnir and CA shield. He obviously has beyond-human senses that let him perceive the properties of matter without contact.

I don't mean 'tasting' in the literal sense, and I never did. It may mean something significant when he says that, it may be a personality quirk to describe him experiencing something quite different. Even then he doesn't have feats to contest with Surfer in molecular manipulation, not even when Surfer first arrived on Earth. Again, ABC logic does not work. Him beating Molecule Man doesn't mean he's stronger or that he can duplicate the same feats.

His tower disappeared after he died, implying that it was a construct of his mind.

Originally posted by cdtm
No offense, but by that logic you could kill a lot of feats. Surtur beating Odin? Not impressive, because galaxies weren't being blown apart as in Odins highest feats, and Surtur never proved he could busts multiple galaxies (The most he busted was the core of a dead galaxy...)

Given Sentry's ill defined power cap, and some feats that do exceed even Surfers (Can you see Surfer standing against the army of heroes Sentry/Void did, including Dr. Strange? Can you see Surfer tanking Terrax's attack, like Thanos might?), I think Sentry/Void is simply meant to be that powerful.

The fact he didn't have the level of control that MM had, doesn't mean he didn't have the raw power necessary to defeat him.. It just means he's not very intelligent with his powers...

You're right about that. Not that he's wrong or you're right, but a person can't automatically call PIS.

Um, yeah. Current Surfer with the morality of the Void would waste them.

amnesia
Originally posted by shokosugi
Yeah. it is. This match up is beneath Superman.


A b-level monster who got demolished by a b-level asgardian fighting Superman?? HILARIOUS!


Obvious troll is obvious!

The Nuul
Originally posted by -Pr-




stop trolling.

Like that will ever happen...roll eyes (sarcastic)

bbrem123
Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
He says he can control his own molecules. Making the werewolf in his hands is evidence of that. He's supposed to be better at it than Molecule Man, yet he can't duplicate MM's feats during the arc? He needed to force MM to bring the people back, when he allegedly could have done it himself. Yet you'll claim that he was doing it to intimidate MM or some bull.



I don't mean 'tasting' in the literal sense, and I never did. It may mean something significant when he says that, it may be a personality quirk to describe him experiencing something quite different. Even then he doesn't have feats to contest with Surfer in molecular manipulation, not even when Surfer first arrived on Earth. Again, ABC logic does not work. Him beating Molecule Man doesn't mean he's stronger or that he can duplicate the same feats.

His tower disappeared after he died, implying that it was a construct of his mind.



You're right about that. Not that he's wrong or you're right, but a person can't automatically call PIS.

Um, yeah. Current Surfer with the morality of the Void would waste them.

he says he controls the molecules of his own world...and he also say that he cant undo what MM did because he is not as skilled at it yet...i dont see where u are getting all of this from

here are the scans read carefully now....if you show me how to put everything back he say...if he cant do it why would he want him to show him how...ooo wait its because he is inexperienced..l

http://s980.photobucket.com/albums/ae289/ankur2292/?action=view&current=DarkAvengers12016.jpg

another example of why it is not just his own molecules he controls..he say i control the molecules of my world, not just his own molecules

http://s980.photobucket.com/albums/ae289/ankur2292/?action=view&current=DarkAvengers12017.jpg

Johnny Sorrow

Johnny Sorrow
Originally posted by bbrem123
he says he controls the molecules of his own world...and he also say that he cant undo what MM did because he is not as skilled at it yet...i dont see where u are getting all of this from

here are the scans read carefully now....if you show me how to put everything back he say...if he cant do it why would he want him to show him how...ooo wait its because he is inexperienced..l

http://s980.photobucket.com/albums/ae289/ankur2292/?action=view&current=DarkAvengers12016.jpg

another example of why it is not just his own molecules he controls..he say i control the molecules of my world, not just his own molecules

http://s980.photobucket.com/albums/ae289/ankur2292/?action=view&current=DarkAvengers12017.jpg

He says so, and he claims a lot of things. You do know the Void likes to mess with people's heads, right? Everything he says is taken with a grain of salt.

Yeah, I know it sounds like a cop-out: "He's just LYING about everything!" Not what I'm saying.

bbrem123
oo come on now...that is the most fail of a statement i have read in a while...that is ur argument now...very laughable

Johnny Sorrow
Originally posted by bbrem123
oo come on now...that is the most fail of a statement i have read in a while...that is ur argument now...very laughable

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Yeah, I know it sounds like a cop-out: "He's just LYING about everything!" Not what I'm saying.

bbrem123
posted that after u edited...so what r u saying then...he is lying or he has the power...cant go both ways there buddy....seems like ur believe what u want to believe so sentry doesnt seem that powerful

Johnny Sorrow
Originally posted by bbrem123
posted that after u edited...so what r u saying then...he is lying or he has the power...cant go both ways there buddy....seems like ur believe what u want to believe so sentry doesnt seem that powerful

Of course I edited it, to make it clear.

Honestly, I don't know. I would have to go through all his appearances. The Void is very manipulative, somewhat like Lucifer. He may speak the truth when it helps him, he may lie and claim things for the same reason. You really believe all the stuff he told Lindy about Biblical prophecy and such?

753
Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
He says he can control his own molecules. Making the werewolf in his hands is evidence of that. He's supposed to be better at it than Molecule Man, yet he can't duplicate MM's feats during the arc? He needed to force MM to bring the people back, when he allegedly could have done it himself. Yet you'll claim that he was doing it to intimidate MM or some bull.



I don't mean 'tasting' in the literal sense, and I never did. It may mean something significant when he says that, it may be a personality quirk to describe him experiencing something quite different. Even then he doesn't have feats to contest with Surfer in molecular manipulation, not even when Surfer first arrived on Earth. Again, ABC logic does not work. Him beating Molecule Man doesn't mean he's stronger or that he can duplicate the same feats.

His tower disappeared after he died, implying that it was a construct of his mind.

SS is a better matter manipulator than void and has acomplished far more complex and sophisticated feats. But that's finesse, not raw power. The sentry has more power than SS and MM. He couldn't duplicate MM feats because he is stupid and inexperienced - MM's intellect and awareness should be freakshly expanded by now btw, even if this last showing of his displays him as somewhat crippled by emotional problems, and the SS has CA

The reasons the void doesn't do everyone like he did MM and Loki are PIS and CIS.

bbrem123
i didnt say i did...he said he was galactus and he is obviously not galactus...lindy said he was biblical...all we kno is he had something to do with that time and being the black plague...other then that who the hell knows what he is...oo and we have the crazy osborn yelling he is the angel of death so who knows...to be honest tho even tho he was crazy he knew the most about sentry and what he was...that is why he feared him so much..but he was crazyy sooooo lol.

i have a feeling reed now knows what the sentry really is after reading his diary...we will have to wait even more now to know his origin i guess...cuz bendis obviously didnt tell us shit about it

Johnny Sorrow
Originally posted by 753
The reasons the void doesn't do everyone like he did MM and Loki are PIS and CIS.

That's the reason why I'm posting in here. I'm trying to posit a theory of how the Sentry accomplishes his feats without resorting to claiming

A) Sentry is really powerful but PIS/CIS stops him from showing it all the time

B) Sentry isn't that powerful and everyone else is getting the PIS/CIS treatment to make him look better

Which is pretty much the two major positions in all his threads. I want to argue that all his feats are legitimate and all his appearances are valid, and if you believe A or B you can't hold that opinion.

Originally posted by bbrem123
i didnt say i did...he said he was galactus and he is obviously not galactus...lindy said he was biblical...all we kno is he had something to do with that time and being the black plague...other then that who the hell knows what he is...oo and we have the crazy osborn yelling he is the angel of death so who knows...to be honest tho even tho he was crazy he knew the most about sentry and what he was...that is why he feared him so much..but he was crazyy sooooo lol.

i have a feeling reed now knows what the sentry really is after reading his diary...we will have to wait even more now to know his origin i guess...cuz bendis obviously didnt tell us shit about it

Obviously not. But obviously (unless proven otherwise) he wasn't around during the time of Moses because Bob wasn't around during the time of Moses. The Sentry and the Void have only existed since Bob ingested the advanced SS serum. So who the hell knows what the Void was trying to do by claiming he was around back then?

-Pr-
Originally posted by The Nuul
Like that will ever happen...roll eyes (sarcastic)

who asked you?

Bentley
Originally posted by quanchi112
He chose not to reform and just needed a killing blow. It's obvious because he was hit with blasts from Thor prior to and a lot worse than what actually took him out.

You don't need to give increasingly stronger hits to kill someone. I don't think that having Void tanking worse means that Thor hits won't do a thing in the long run.

bbrem123
Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
That's the reason why I'm posting in here. I'm trying to posit a theory of how the Sentry accomplishes his feats without resorting to claiming

A) Sentry is really powerful but PIS/CIS stops him from showing it all the time

B) Sentry isn't that powerful and everyone else is getting the PIS/CIS treatment to make him look better

Which is pretty much the two major positions in all his threads. I want to argue that all his feats are legitimate and all his appearances are valid, and if you believe A or B you can't hold that opinion.



Obviously not. But obviously (unless proven otherwise) he wasn't around during the time of Moses because Bob wasn't around during the time of Moses. The Sentry and the Void have only existed since Bob ingested the advanced SS serum. So who the hell knows what the Void was trying to do by claiming he was around back then?

i get where ur getting at but...they showed on panel evidence that void was in fact the black plague...im guess the serum made it possible for sentry to access those power...and i have a feeling the void has been around for a while. why else would they show us biblical times. and then have void do the exact same thing to NY in later issues

753
Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
That's the reason why I'm posting in here. I'm trying to posit a theory of how the Sentry accomplishes his feats without resorting to claiming

A) Sentry is really powerful but PIS/CIS stops him from showing it all the time

B) Sentry isn't that powerful and everyone else is getting the PIS/CIS treatment to make him look better

Which is pretty much the two major positions in all his threads. I want to argue that all his feats are legitimate and all his appearances are valid, and if you believe A or B you can't hold that opinion.



Obviously not. But obviously (unless proven otherwise) he wasn't around during the time of Moses because Bob wasn't around during the time of Moses. The Sentry and the Void have only existed since Bob ingested the advanced SS serum. So who the hell knows what the Void was trying to do by claiming he was around back then?

Even the MM doesn't just turn his enemies into water or turn the air arround them into diamond, even though he could, he throws giant objects at them instead, but we all know how powerfull he is because of his other feats that don't suck.

The problem for characters like this, is that it is impossible to tell a story without crippling them with PIS or CIS, specially when they are villains and are supposed to lose, otherwise they'd wipe everyone out and end the plot.

PIS and CIS really are the simplest and most parsimonious explanation in this case.

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