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I thought this might be an interesting topic to discuss.

I tend to prefer following characters that are either undergoing or have undergone growth and development throughout their portrayals, in their physicality, mentality, maturity etc.

As IMO, without good development even the best of character concepts can become a mess, while conversely even a really bad concept can be salvaged by strong character development.

So I thought I'd see if people could name characters they think have undergone the most character development throughout their comic "career" and list some of the reasoning behind why they think the character has undergone significant development.

Dick Grayson.

He's steadily grown from teenage sidekick, to a leader of teenage heroes, to a full fledged hero in his own right. While the character itself is several times older than I, after reading a helluva lot of Batman, Titans, and Nightwing comics, I feel as if I actually watched him grow up and evolve into a character that can stand completely separate and apart from Bruce Wayne.

I understand his role as Batman may strike some as a step backwards into Bruce's shadow, but I see it as a needed course of action for Gotham in terms of in-universe. And hell, Dick's run as Batman has been pretty awesome, imo. If Grayson isn't a character who developed, I don't know who else is.

^ Agreed.

IBut I cant think of anyone else, once the characters are established they almost never change in comics. Maybe in Marvel's ultimate universe cause they dont give a crap.

Grayson is probably the most developed one, tbh.

Ones that i think have come a long way:

Cyclops, Superman, Red Tornado, Power Girl...

Tim Drake.

Started out as just an idealistic, intelligent kid who decided Batman needed a sidekick, and made it so. Now, after years of training and tragedy, he is THE leader of his generation of heroes, having gained the respect of both heroes and villians vastly more experienced then himself.

Though the greatest sign that he's grown as a person is that we frequently see him actually reacting and changing to what the world throws at him. The death of his father gave him the darkness that every Bat-kid has, and we started seeing that in the way he acted I.E beating the shit out of the electrocutioner. Conner and Bart's death gave him the same drive Batman has, that near manic dedication to the cause, and the willingness to do what he thinks is right in spite of everyone else (the whole cloning thing). Finally, Bruce dying brought all of this together, with Tim showing that he's naturally and organically become a hero of his own, leaving Gotham, knowing better then every other hero in the DCU by searching for Bruce, owning Ra's in a manner that would make Bat's envious, all while retaining the close ties we've seen him develop.

Tim is one of the most developed characters in mainstream comics IMO, and I'd actually put him above Grayson in that regard.

Emma Frost.

Beast, Emma Frost, Black Adam, Bucky,

To name a few that have been transformed, successfully. Although I disagree with X marks the spot. In most of these aforementioned cases the concept has come first, which has then acted as a paradigm for trait devlopment.


Probably the most emphatic, and most gradual has been Batman's - and arguably the best.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Grayson is probably the most developed one, tbh.

Ones that i think have come a long way:

Cyclops, Superman, Red Tornado, Power Girl...

Superman - hardly
Powergirl - I thought character, presupposed a personality, and I have yet to see evidence she that has either.
Red Tornado - as seen above, but he, instead of she.

Mark grayson

Pre-OMD Peter Parker



He's not a bad character post-OMD. He's still Spidey and all. He just...regressed.

Richard Rider. He has gone from Pseudo cosmic Spiderman knockoff c-list character, to full fledged hero and savior of the universe.

Luke Cage

Bucky.

Helmut Zemo went from being a cliche ww2 type villian to becoming his own man, denouncing his father and heritage and becoming an antihero. Sad to see that hes about to be reduced back to a crazed psycho with delusions of a "master race".

Originally posted by dmills
Richard Rider. He has gone from Pseudo cosmic Spiderman knockoff c-list character, to full fledged hero and savior of the universe.

I'd try an avoid classifying personality traits with actions - the motive behind the action is a trait, the action is not - A calculator doesn't have a personality because it can multiply quickly, etc.

Originally posted by Digi
Pre-OMD Peter Parker



He's not a bad character post-OMD. He's still Spidey and all. He just...regressed.

I usually associate development with change not stagnation? - I was under the impression Peter Parker has basically been a parody of a insecure but good harted teenager through out - Yes I know he's not a teenager any more - buts that's a relational change, not a personality change. Just because I'm older doesn't mean my personality has developed. I.e. Its one minute into the future, since i started writing this post. Intuitively my personality hasn't changed, by relationship to time has. As i mentioned before, lets not get actions and relational changes mixed up with character development. We're interested in motives intentions and beliefs of the agent, not the actions they perform.

Maybe not the most, but I love Cassandra's development during the Batgirl series. Started out mute and had something of a death wish, gain the ability to talk, and tentatively learned about the normal world.

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Superman - hardly
Powergirl - I thought character, presupposed a personality, and I have yet to see evidence she that has either.
Red Tornado - as seen above, but he, instead of she.

Superman has had TONS of character development in the last ten years alone. From Loeb's run to OWAW to Azarello and Verheiden; Absolutely tons of work has been done on the guy.

Then read her series.

Read his minis, and his time in Young Justice.

Superman's motivations, personality and idealogical is the same now as it has always been. He's had an ass ton of stories but he hasn't had any substantial character development. Superman is Superman, he doesn't change.

Dick Grayson

Obviously matured physically and mentally, adopted and carved out his own identity and then was willing to sacrifice it for the sake of upholding his father's mantle. He's gone from Robin to Batman.
Lynchpin of the the DCU and has proved to not only himself but also to Bruce Wayne that people are not hardwired into one setting. Dick did what Bruce couldn't, he got over his parent's deaths.

Although honourable indie mentions (due to the fact that they underwent massive developments but over a very small space of our reading time) goes to Yorrick Brown of Y: The Last Man fame and of course Scott Pilgrim of....well, Scott Pilgrim.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Dick Grayson.

He's steadily grown from teenage sidekick, to a leader of teenage heroes, to a full fledged hero in his own right. While the character itself is several times older than I, after reading a helluva lot of Batman, Titans, and Nightwing comics, I feel as if I actually watched him grow up and evolve into a character that can stand completely separate and apart from Bruce Wayne.

I understand his role as Batman may strike some as a step backwards into Bruce's shadow, but I see it as a needed course of action for Gotham in terms of in-universe. And hell, Dick's run as Batman has been pretty awesome, imo. If Grayson isn't a character who developed, I don't know who else is.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Superman's motivations, personality and idealogical is the same now as it has always been. He's had an ass ton of stories but he hasn't had any substantial character development. Superman is Superman, he doesn't change.

that's not actually true, tbh. you can't define development by those three criteria, imo.

and his motivations and personality have actually developed quite a bit.

^ The character development and evolution of Superman in four easy steps:

"Truth, Justice, and the American Way!"

changed to

"Truth, Justice, and Tolerance for all the World's Cultures!"

changed to

"Truth, Justice, and Love for all the Universe's Denizens!"

changed to

"Truth, Justice, and the Salvation of the entire DC Multiverse!!! (except Darkseid)"

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ The character development and evolution of Superman in four easy steps:

"Truth, Justice, and the American Way!"

changed to

"Truth, Justice, and Tolerance for all the World's Cultures!"

changed to

"Truth, Justice, and Love for all the Universe's Denizens!"

changed to

"Truth, Justice, and the Salvation of the entire DC Multiverse!!! (except Darkseid)"

Hehe pretty much.

If you took current Superman and replaced him with himself in different times in his history, you aren't going get stories that would change much at all. Any decision Superman would have made 10 years ago, he'll make the same one now. Superman is Superman. If you took Cyclops and did the same thing you get radically different stories. Superman has hardly changed at all.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Hehe pretty much.

If you took current Superman and replaced him with himself in different times in his history, you aren't going get stories that would change much at all. Any decision Superman would have made 10 years ago, he'll make the same one now. Superman is Superman. If you took Cyclops and did the same thing you get radically different stories. Superman has hardly changed at all.

how is his decisions being the same meaning he hasn't been developed as a character?

development and evolution don't necessarily have to mean complete changes.

and they ballsed cyclops up completely when fraction, kyle and yost came on board. that's not development. that's idiocy. he would have made similar choices up until the end of whedon's run even though he had been well developed as a character.

What do you think character development is exactly? Superman man hasn't changed at all. His opinion doesn't change. His outlook doesn't change. His methods don't change. Everything he does just further reaffirms the choices he made. That's not character development... thats called stagnation. He is the same place he was 10 years ago, and he'll still be there 10 years from now. Thats not necessarily a bad thing though. Superman is who he is for a reason: it works. No one wants Superman to change, so he doesn't change.

Whedon's Astonishing X-Men existed in a continuity black-hole so he didn't have the acknowledge the string of events that culminated in where Scott is now. Don't worry though, comics are very circular in their story telling method. When Marvel gets tired of Cyclops being an interesting full formed character they will turn him back into the bland, archetypal "boy-scout", cardboard cutout character stand-in you love so much.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
What do you think character development is exactly? Superman man hasn't changed at all. His opinion doesn't change. His outlook doesn't change. His methods don't change. Everything he does just further reaffirms the choices he made. That's not character development... thats called stagnation. He is the same place he was 10 years ago, and he'll still be there 10 years from now. Thats not necessarily a bad thing though. Superman is who he is for a reason: it works. No one wants Superman to change, so he doesn't change.

Whedon's Astonishing X-Men existed in a continuity black-hole so he didn't have the acknowledge the string of events that culminated in where Scott is now. Don't worry though, comics are very circular in their story telling method. When Marvel gets tired of Cyclops being an interesting full formed character they will turn him back into the bland, archetypal "boy-scout", cardboard cutout character stand-in you love so much.

his outlook did change. his opinion on several things changed. his methods have changed more than once.

just because he's still a good guy doesn't mean they didn't develop and deepen the character.

the whedon run was only the culmination of a good 6 or 7 years of work done by morrison, brubaker et al. i know you're only kidding, but i'd literally smack anyone in the mouth that tried to tell me that fraction's cyclops was a more rounded character than what whedon or morrison did.

Originally posted by -Pr-
his outlook did change. his opinion on several things changed. his methods have changed more than once.

just because he's still a good guy doesn't mean they didn't develop and deepen the character.

the whedon run was only the culmination of a good 6 or 7 years of work done by morrison, brubaker et al. i know you're only kidding, but i'd literally smack anyone in the mouth that tried to tell me that fraction's cyclops was a more rounded character than what whedon or morrison did.



I agree with you, but I wouldn't hit anyone over it......it's just comics





I'd burn their family and post the remains through their letterbox.

thanos