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All combatants are operating at their prime.

Mace.

Reasons: CWC version + Shatterpoint + Vaapad.

i think Galen is the biggest threat here. Mace needs to take him out quickly or take Grievous out quickly to have a chance.

^ Most definitely. But I think Vaapad would aid Mace tremendously against Galen (and Maul as well.) And though GG is an extremely formidable duelist, he can/should be swiftly dealt with via some type of force application (we saw what a casual flick of Mace's wrist did to his chest, after all.)

Oh and to make my stance a bit more clear, I really don't think this would need to be CWC Mace for him to own - I think his other, more realistic 'self' would still come out on top. I only mentioned CWC because the OP stated the combatants will be operating at their prime.

I was sure Mareks prime was when he was LS pre fighting Vader on the DS.

Team win pretty easily imo. Maul and Grievous keep Mace busy while Galen pwn's him with the Force. Mace can't defend against lightsabers and Galen ForceGod Marek at the same time. And yes this is taking into account CWC's.

Galen would do it on his own.

excellent post DE,and someone always has to say something stupid afterwards....

I hardly think its over the top to suggest Galen Marek, the guy who stomped Vader the guy who had Sidious screaming in pain, would take Mace on his own.

In fact iv seen many people on these threads who think Vader would have a decent shot at taking Mace.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Galen would do it on his own.

bangin

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I hardly think its over the top to suggest Galen Marek, the guy who stomped Vader the guy who had Sidious screaming in pain, would take Mace on his own.

In fact iv seen many people on these threads who think Vader would have a decent shot at taking Mace.
I agree. Afterall Vader>Yoda.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Team win pretty easily imo. Maul and Grievous keep Mace busy while Galen pwn's him with the Force. Mace can't defend against lightsabers and Galen ForceGod Marek at the same time. And yes this is taking into account CWC's. Are you assuming that Mace would just be standing in one place, and allowing Maul/GG to simultaneously engage him while Galen uses lightning (or some other type of force power)? If so, that's kind of handicapping him, don't you think? I mean, what's stopping Mace from using his speed (which was so great that Anakin couldn't even perceive him when he was fighting Sidious) in conjunction with all of his other abilities?

Just another viewpoint, is all.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I hardly think its over the top to suggest Galen Marek, the guy who stomped Vader the guy who had Sidious screaming in pain, would take Mace on his own. Mace beat Sidious. Beating someone > making them scream in pain.

Originally posted by Galan007
Mace beat Sidious. Beating someone > making them scream in pain.
Nope. Mace beat Sidious in the saber portion only. He would have lost the force battle.

Originally posted by ares834
Nope. Mace beat Sidious in the saber portion only. He would have lost the force battle. Which doesn't discredit what I said... Mace still beat Sidious, after all.

That being said, I do agree that Sidious was > in the force, and would have beaten Mace had the battle gone that route. However, the reason it didn't turn into a force battle is because Mace kept it paced as a duel - he never really gave Sidious the opportunity to use the force in an offensive manner (which was a very smart tactic on his part, and one that few Jedi would have been successful in.)

Originally posted by Nephthys
Team win pretty easily imo. Maul and Grievous keep Mace busy while Galen pwn's him with the Force. Mace can't defend against lightsabers and Galen ForceGod Marek at the same time. And yes this is taking into account CWC's.

Pretty much exactly what I was thinking.

CWC Mace takes this.
Any other version of Mace loses.

The team but it's still not a bad fight. You have to think that it's Mace versus six lightsabers all together and while Grievous doesn't pose as much of a threat (i.e. Force Crush him again) Maul and Galen do.

Maul is an excellent duelist, albeit not as good as Mace, but Galen is both an excellent duelist and much more powerful in the Force. Mace has Vaapad and shatterpoints but that doesn't make him unbeatable. IMO Mace would systematically take down Grievous and Maul during the fight and then eventually lose to Galen.

Originally posted by HeartoftheForce
then eventually lose to Galen. This seems to be the consensus, but I'm curious as to why?

Originally posted by Galan007
This seems to be the consensus, but I'm curious as to why?

How will Mace block Force attacks from Mace whilst combating Maul and Grevious at once? Unless if it's CWC Mace, in which case he easily wins.

Originally posted by Galan007
This seems to be the consensus, but I'm curious as to why?
Because Galen can WTF PWN Vader who is even more powerful than Yoda.

In all honesty Galen can solo.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
How will Mace block Force attacks from Mace whilst combating Maul and Grevious at once? Unless if it's CWC Mace, in which case he easily wins. The way I see it, GG is out with a flick of the wrist - this leaves only Maul and Galen to worry about. Maul wouldn't take much longer to deal with, considering Mace's speed (so fast Anakin couldn't perceive him) + Vaapad. Then there's Galen who IS extremely powerful with the force... But so was Sidious.... Who Mace beat.

Just my opinion.

Originally posted by ares834
Nope. Mace beat Sidious in the saber portion only. He would have lost the force battle.
prove this malarky. i remrmber anakin interfering.

He was choking on Ozone. And isn't it said somewhere that Palps was faking weakness. If he had kept it up...

Bandon solos.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
He was choking on Ozone. And isn't it said somewhere that Palps was faking weakness. If he had kept it up...

or if Mace had taken a step back... we have been over this.

Originally posted by truejedi
or if Mace had taken a step back... we have been over this.

Except force lightning doesn't behave like lightning.

Lightning doesn't have any sort of force behind it anyway. it electrocutes. So whatever sidious was doing, you would have a hard time proving it would be just as affective from across the room. especially since it always seems to be harder to get closer to lightning wielder. (Marek)

lightning launched yoda from one end of the movie to the other and threw mace out a window

I sincerely doubt Force lighting is made up of electrons. Force Lightning does not seemed to be impacted by range.

It kinda is. When Marek moved closer to sidious, it exploded, when yoda moved closer to sidious, it exploded. Distance matters.

Electrons don't explode.
Still if Force Lightning did follow the laws of physics its force should be incredibly weak and almost non existant. WHy? Because we have litteraly no charge within us. We are nearly electricly neutral. BUt it clearly has a massive force on us (FL has been shown to blow people back) Ergo it is does not follow Columb's Law.

But this lightning did? I'm not talking about electrons here. I'm talking about the obvious affect of distance the times we have seen lightning onscreen. If ANYTHING pushes you back, its going to get weaker as you get further away, you would be literally carried away, and never escape the force of the lightning.

Originally posted by truejedi
It kinda is. When Marek moved closer to sidious, it exploded, when yoda moved closer to sidious, it exploded. Distance matters.
um, it is going to take a little bit more than that to prove a causal relationship between the force of the Force (lightning) and distance. Try again?

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
um, it is going to take a little bit more than that to prove a causal relationship between the force of the Force (lightning) and distance. Try again?

I'm actually good with what I've already written. If distance didn't make a difference, FL would literally push a Jedi back an infinite distance. (since the force that hit them would still be applied while they are flying backwards) Marek's death also shows he had it under control from across the room, and died as a result of getting closer to Sidious.

Originally posted by truejedi
I'm actually good with what I've already written. If distance didn't make a difference, FL would literally push a Jedi back an infinite distance. (since the force that hit them would still be applied while they are flying backwards)
Yeah, because fights regularly take place in an infinite, frictionless void. How often do we see FL actually exerting any force on a victim anyway? It sure didn't send Luke flying across the room. It didn't lift Anakin off his feet. The only time we've seen it exert force (that we can be sure of) is when Sidious threw Windu out of a window.

You're reaching. (By which I mean only that you've yet to substantiate your axioms.)


Does it?

Why do you think that?

It didn't exert force on Anakin? Really?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQTzGzVSHec

19s, you stand corrected on that one. Off his feet and into a wall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kxb630ipsbs
4:10

He didn't fall out that window, not 30 feet out, he was thrown by FL.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
It didn't lift Anakin off his feet.

I thought Dooku slammed him against the wall and tossed him through the air.

EDIT - Truejedi beat me to it.

I said that part already. And you've yet to substantiate that it was the lightning exerting the force, and not some other application of the Force like, for instance, Telekinesis.





has yet to be substantiated

Occum's razor is pretty obviously applied here. The definition of reaching would be assuming something that there is absolutely no evidence to suggest. I've never seen anyone use lightning and TK at the same time, (or lightning, and ANYTHING else at the same time for that matter, for all we know its not even possible.)

This is begging the question. () You're taking it as given that this isn't TK and then using that assumption as evidence, and I won't stand for it.

You will either give us solid evidence of your claims in a written out and not-flippant-in-the-least format or I will stop pretending to care about this topic.

when yoda was hit by lightning he was tossed back at least 30-40 feet, same with anakin and mace.

there is however nothing that points to it being a result of TK in concurrence with the lightning.

in fact the only time that someone hasnt been thrown back from lightning in the movies is when it was used against luke, and he was already on the ground and the lightning was pointed down.

Nemesis, its your claim that its TK, not lightning, you prove it. You are asking me to prove a negative on an claim made by yourself. That's beyond ridiculous.

TJ
Nemesis, its your claim that its TK, not lightning, you prove it. You are asking me to prove a negative on an claim made by yourself. That's beyond ridiculous.

Cut him some slack, jackass. He's probably been popping pills and drinking booze ever since the whole Nihilus thing.

Belief in Nihilus's uber telekinesis is what pulled him from the mass shadows of Malachorsocial despair and kept the shiphim together.

Your insensitivity knows no bounds.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
when yoda was hit by lightning he was tossed back at least 30-40 feet, same with anakin and mace.

there is however nothing that points to it being a result of TK in concurrence with the lightning.

in fact the only time that someone hasnt been thrown back from lightning in the movies is when it was used against luke, and he was already on the ground and the lightning was pointed down. It's as if once the Lightning makes contact with someone, the caster can use it to physically move them.


And we really should keep in mind that Force Lightning is Force Lightning. Eventually, we have to look at it and realize that our understanding of electricity's behavior (and origins) means jack shit in Star Wars.

Sidious used lightning on Mace and he went flying out the window...

Originally posted by truejedi
Nemesis, its your claim that its TK, not lightning, you prove it. You are asking me to prove a negative on an claim made by yourself. That's beyond ridiculous.

Actually TJ, I haven't made any sort of claim at all. You'll notice that my post didn't say "it is TK and not FL" but rather "you've yet to substantiate that it was the lightning exerting the force, and not some other application of the Force." I gave you a for instance but did not endorse it.

I've learned how to avoid burden of proof. So prove up or shut up.

I, for one, am a little confused as to how Force Lightning would throw Anakin sideways into a wall. Or how it could shock Windu for several seconds and then suddenly fling him through the window like a cricket ball, again at an angle. I always assumed that it was TK.

It may be. But we have no source indicating that telekinesis is involved. Until something else is brought in to canon, we have to assume that it's the force of the Lightning itself, and that perhaps the caster has a measure of control as to where to direct it and its victim.

It wouldn't make sense (from an in-universe perspective) for Lightning NOT to have "weight" behind it. We're given a fair amount of instances where it propels people, and in Palpatine's battles with Mace, Yoda, and Marek, they're all struggling to redirect some sort of pressure coming at them. I'll say it again, our physics=/=their physics.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Actually TJ, I haven't made any sort of claim at all. You'll notice that my post didn't say "it is TK and not FL" but rather "you've yet to substantiate that it was the lightning exerting the force, and not some other application of the Force." I gave you a for instance but did not endorse it.

I've learned how to avoid burden of proof. So prove up or shut up.

You haven't learned as well as you think you have. You are the one who introduced TK into the equation, without being able to prove it was there. I have given you two instances of lightning lifting a person and shoving them away. For me to need to give you more proof, you first need to prove that TK was involved. In the meantime, Occum's Razor applies.

That is how burden of proof works. I can say that you are just assuming that the Ravager is heavy, and therefore assuming that N's feat was impressive. I can stand here and claim all day that it is POSSIBLE that the Ravager is actually made out of a virtually weightless alloy virtually indetectable from durasteel, and say you need to PROVE that it actually weighed something before N.'s feat is impressive. But that is ridiculous. Before I could ask you to claim something so abnormal, I would need to establish a platform putting reasonable doubt on the weight of the Ravager.

You don't have a platform to even base your doubts on, so no proof from myself is required until you provide one.

Originally posted by truejedi
You haven't learned as well as you think you have. You are the one who introduced TK into the equation, without being able to prove it was there. I have given you two instances of lightning lifting a person and shoving them away. For me to need to give you more proof, you first need to prove that TK was involved. In the meantime, Occum's Razor applies.

That is how burden of proof works. I can say that you are just assuming that the Ravager is heavy, and therefore assuming that N's feat was impressive. I can stand here and claim all day that it is POSSIBLE that the Ravager is actually made out of a virtually weightless alloy virtually indetectable from durasteel, and say you need to PROVE that it actually weighed something before N.'s feat is impressive. But that is ridiculous. Before I could ask you to claim something so abnormal, I would need to establish a platform putting reasonable doubt on the weight of the Ravager.

You don't have a platform to even base your doubts on, so no proof from myself is required until you provide one.
This is not so. You are taking "FL includes some kinetic component" as an axiom. I am asking you to prove that axiom. I used the "TK" as an offering of a potential explanation, because I am a helper. I freely and eagerly retract that for instance, however, if it made you think I have some sort of position on the matter. I assure you I have not formulated a position yet.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
This is not so. You are taking "FL includes some kinetic component" as an axiom. I am asking you to prove that axiom.

Which I have done with the video clips. You would need to prove its anything other than the force lightning, as I have shown, before I would require further proof. There are a few places in the literature that talks about the lightning picking up, or the lightning "throwing him back"
but I don't feel like I should have to include those quotes yet, based on what has been posted.

EDIT: It would be different if you had been able to cast a bit of reasonable doubt on the evidence i offered, but your alternate explanation doesn't really have anything to support it, other than "Its possible."

I think the answer here is that force lightning does generate it's own 'weight' (some times, at least.) This explains why we have instances like when Yoda was blown back immediately upon being struck by it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou2_OCNFi6g
(0:37)


However, it's also logical to assume that FL has been portrayed as relatively weightless in other instances, but apparent bursts of secondary TK have been introduced. This would explain why Anakin was first struck with Dooku's lightning head on, but instead of moving backward, he moved horizontally and bashed against the wall (i). It would also explain why Mace stood in one general place for a few seconds whilst being electrocuted, then he was all of the sudden pushed several meters outward (ii). FL's initial weightlessness can also be seen when the Emperor was electrocuting Luke at the end of RotJ, and he (Luke) was barely moving at all (iii):
(i)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQTzGzVSHec
(0:18)
---
(ii)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kxb630ipsbs&feature=related
(3:54)
---
(iii)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QhrrynMFiM
(0:08)



So I think that 'amalgamating' the differing opinions on the matter would be a logical conclusion, all things considered. /shrug

Perhaps, since the lightning is mystical in nature, that it is entirely dependent on the intent of the user? It's obvious that Palpatine wasn't interested in knocking Skywalker aside or flinging him away, but in torturing him. This wasn't the case with Mace or in Dooku's situation with Anakin.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
In fact iv seen many people on these threads who think Vader would have a decent shot at taking Mace.

An they are ALL wrong Mace would epically PWN vader

and thats not fanboyism

Originally posted by Gideon
Perhaps, since the lightning is mystical in nature, that it is entirely dependent on the intent of the user? It's obvious that Palpatine wasn't interested in knocking Skywalker aside or flinging him away, but in torturing him. This wasn't the case with Mace or in Dooku's situation with Anakin. In the rawest of terms, wouldn't that equate to either the addition or subtraction of TK being used with said lightning?

Galan
^ Which, in the rawest of terms, would equate to either the addition or subtraction of TK used with said lightning, no?

I'm not sure.

Let me put it to you like this: I don't recall a single source that mentions telekinesis being used in conjuction with Force lightning as the means by which an enemy is hurled across the room. It's possible, but I haven't seen anything that would indicate as much.

Originally posted by Gideon
I'm not sure.

Let me put it to you like this: I don't recall a single source that mentions telekinesis being used in conjuction with Force lightning as the means by which an enemy is hurled across the room. It's possible, but I haven't seen anything that would indicate as much. Nor have I seen anything that says TK is not involved with force lightning.

But like I said a few posts ago, there are multiple canon happenings to support both sides. So no one can really be wrong until a reliable source is released which explains the particulars of FL.

Mace kills GG & Maul. Galen & Mace kill each other. Both too strong in the Force. Reason: Galen would have won, but he still wasn't fully 'trained.'