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no weapons, no gear.....just a bareknuckle martial artist brawl.




who wins?

Hows deathstrokes pressure point resistance? Id say Elektra puts him down. No gear is more of a hinderance to him than to her.

could go either way.

Deathstroke.

Elektra for the high majority. Slade's strength advantage isn't enough to compensate for being inferior in virtually every way.

Is Slade stronger? Not sure he is.

Originally posted by YFZ 350
Is Slade stronger? Not sure he is.

He's about class 2. He is slightly stronger than Elektra.

Elektra 7/10 ftw

Elektra is by far more skilled MA'er then slade.. elektra 7/10

Elektra 6/10

which female can take on elektra H2H ? has to be a street leveler fighter. so no WW

Wonder Woman

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
Wonder Woman i just said no WW. take a hint no super strength characters or speed. has to be a female experience fighter.

Big Barda

Originally posted by chomperx9
which female can take on elektra H2H ? has to be a street leveler fighter. so no WW

None of them. She is the best female street.

cassie could do pretty well. black cat due to luck powers.....

Shiva/White Canarry would be a good matchup.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
None of them. She is the best female street.

Q for the muddy fudding T

Originally posted by leonidas
cassie could do pretty well. black cat due to luck powers.....

Cassie could hang for a while, IMO.

lady shiva could match her

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Elektra for the high majority. Slade's strength advantage isn't enough to compensate for being inferior in virtually every way. Slade is inferior to Elektra in virtually every way? bit much?

I'm pretty sure slade has her physically across the board(meta>peak), while only behind in skill, but no slouch by any means himself.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Slade is inferior to Elektra in virtually every way? bit much?

I'm pretty sure slade has her physically across the board(meta>peak), while only behind in skill, but no slouch by any means himself.
Elektra has superhuman stats, and is a telepath with top notch skills. The only area slade bests her in is strength and durbaility (due to his suit).

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Elektra has superhuman stats, and is a telepath with top notch skills. The only area slade bests her in is strength and durbaility (due to his suit). no telepathy here mate.

It's almost hard to bring myself to argue this, but since Slade is stated to be superhuman in all physical attributes, and has more impressive physical feats, I'd say he's physically superior. I hope no ones even thinking her speed/reaction time is faster, because we all know slade has insanely fast reflexes which he has used to produce insane feats time and time again.

in short, I thought this would be a pretty darn good match(thats why I made it). Elektra had the skill advantage, Slade had the physical advantage......I thought that was pretty clear. One thing I'm sure of though, elektra is not superior to slade in virtually ever way, or taking a high majority against a h2h combatant who wrecks teams of superheroes with his bare hands.lol

Originally posted by namorsubby
no telepathy here mate.
thats not what it says in your opt...........

Originally posted by namorsubby
It's almost hard to bring myself to argue this, but since Slade is stated to be superhuman in all physical attributes, and has more impressive physical feats, I'd say he's physically superior.


Being states as superhuman means he better? how does one come to such a conclusion.


really which feats would theses be? I can already guess, but I hoping no one would stoop to such feats none the less I still wish to know which ones. becuase his bullet dodging and deflecting feats are in no way superior in fact she has superior bullet deflecting feats then he.

Originally posted by namorsubby
I hope no one even thinking her speed/reaction time is faster, because we all know slade has insanely fast reflexes which he has used to produce feats time and time again.
so does elektra.......

Originally posted by namorsubby
in short, I thought this would be a pretty darn good match(thats why I made it). Elektra had the skill advantage, Slade had the physical advantage......I thought that was pretty clear. One thing I'm sure of though, elektra is not superior to slade in virtually ever way.lol
It is a good match.

Slade superior durability and strength against elektra superior skill.

slade is no physically superior to her in speed, agility or reaction time. elektra is a straight up meta human force.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
thats not what it says in your opt...........




Being states as superhuman means he better? how does one come to such a conclusion.


really which feats would theses be? I can already guess, but I hoping no one would stoop to such feats none the less I still wish to know which ones. becuase his bullet dodging and deflecting feats are in no way superior in fact she has superior bullet deflecting feats then he.


so does elektra.......


It is a good match.

Slade superior durability and strength against elektra superior skill.

slade is no physically superior to her in speed, agility or reaction time. elektra is a straight up meta human force. *sigh*

1. it's says h2h, with no "seldom seen, obscure power usage allowed" written anywhere

2.I didn't say he was better because he's superhuman, he's superhuman because he's stated to be, elektra's not and only peak because she's stated to be, even if she regularly performs tasks we know are not humanly possible(much like batman, cap, or any other peak human)

3.umm, all of them.

he's dodged bullets just like her and deflected them with his weapon just like her. How can her bullet dodging/deflecting be more impressive?

4.not like slade. seriously though, argue anything else, but reflex/reaction time feats? vs DS? really?

Elektra is not a metahuman

Originally posted by namorsubby
*sigh*

1. it's says h2h, with no "seldom seen, obscure power usage allowed" written anywhere

Except for the fight they used numerous times and recently to boot.


so deathstroke gets his enhanced mind, but she not allowed her telepath interesting.

Originally posted by namorsubby
2.I didn't say he was better because he's superhuman, he's superhuman because he's stated to be, elektra's not and only peak because she's stated to be,
were has she ever been stated on pannel at only being peak? come on lets see it.

Originally posted by namorsubby
even if she regularly performs tasks we know are not humanly possible(much like batman, cap, or any other peak human)

for starters capt is not peak-human is enhanced he the next stage in human evolution.

Elektra however is much different from batman. She has straight up stated powers on pannel learn through dark arts. Her powers come dirrectly through training give to her by stick you know guy who master supernatural and gave him self radar senses immortality ect. Her superhuman abilities dirrectly come from such training in the dark arts.

so please don't give me this lame ass attempt to ignore who abilities and power which have been shown consistently.

3.umm, all of them.

Originally posted by namorsubby
he's dodged bullets just like her and deflected them with his weapon just like her. How can her bullet dodging/deflecting be more impressive?

becuase he never in mid air deflected machine gun firer all around his body with weapon as small as a sia.


Originally posted by namorsubby

Elektra is not a metahuman
yes she very much is, just becuase your extemely ignorant on the character does not change the fact she is very much superhuman.

Didn't DS dodge Starfire pretty well and avoiding her blasts? She was even surprised of his speed.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Didn't DS dodge Starfire pretty well and avoiding her blasts? She was even surprised of his speed. so was wonder women, when he engaged her one on one in hand to hand combat.
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t180/Prophet852005/Deathstroke/Fights/vs%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=wonderwomanv2special01-30ocdhorus.jpg



Originally posted by Battlehammer
Except for the fight they used numerous times and recently to boot.


so deathstroke gets his enhanced mind, but she not allowed her telepath interesting.


were has she ever been stated on pannel at only being peak? come on lets see it.


for starters capt is not peak-human is enhanced he the next stage in human evolution.

Elektra however is much different from batman. She has straight up stated powers on pannel learn through dark arts. Her powers come dirrectly through training give to her by stick you know guy who master supernatural and gave him self radar senses immortality ect. Her superhuman abilities dirrectly come from such training in the dark arts.

so please don't give me this lame ass attempt to ignore who abilities and power which have been shown consistently.

3.umm, all of them.


becuase he never in mid air deflected machine gun firer all around his body with weapon as small as a sia.



yes she very much is, just becuase your extemely ignorant on the character does not change the fact she is very much superhuman.

*sigh* again. I haven't even got to the breakdown of how I think their h2h confrontation would go.I guess I never imagined that i'd have to argue on whether or not Slade's metahuman body had superior physical attributes.

anyway:

1.lol, yeah, pretty much. I wanna see how these people do against each other in a hand to hand fight, that's why wrote H2H(it's sort of like an acronym).

2. When is almost any peak human character classified as peak human outright said to be? we know because of stats presented to us in various forms. Elektra is a human BH........H-U-M-A-N. If regularly performing things real humans can't do makes you automatically superhuman in comics, than batman is at least high herald level.lol

3.it's not just cap, batman and every other peak human regularly perform things no one could ever do for real and you know it.

4.lol, I wrote that because I knew you'd say something about it, but really, his physical feats are more impressive.......and he's a real superhuman, that's no jive.lol

5. oh well, his weapon is inconvienently larger(sword), but his reaction feats still outdo hers.

6. Elektra is not a metahuman, but if we're all supporting your claim of why she should be, than we might as well start calling any peak human superhero superhuman.......and like I said before, Bats is at least high herald level.lol

DS tags Flash so often its getting harder and harder to argue that its PIS.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Slade is inferior to Elektra in virtually every way? bit much?

I'm pretty sure slade has her physically across the board(meta>peak),

Elektra is superhuman, her respect thread bares the proof. Let go of the "titles". Read less bios

Originally posted by Juk3n
Elektra is superhuman, her respect thread bares the proof. Let go of the "titles". Read less bios I apologize if you misunderstand my grievance here, but it has nothing to do with me relying on bios for info. I produce enough scans collectively for anyone with any sense to realize that they obviously hold some sort of significance to me.

It's just that every other classifed peak human performs "superhuman" feats without having to be tagged with that title, why not elektra? why is she the exception?

Elektra is still a female, so she is weaker than captain America. And Slade is probably one of the more skilled in the DCU.

Stats go to Slade. Elektra is more skilled but I'll go with Slade since I view him the opposite side of the coin of Cap.

Originally posted by amnesia
And Slade is probably one of the more skilled in the DCU.

as in top 5? top 10? in skill alone? Im not sure.

Originally posted by Juk3n
as in top 5? top 10? in skill alone? Im not sure.

Top 20.

Originally posted by namorsubby
I apologize if you misunderstand my grievance here, but it has nothing to do with me relying on bios for info. I produce enough scans collectively for anyone with any sense to realize that they obviously hold some sort of significance to me.

It's just that every other classifed peak human performs "superhuman" feats without having to be tagged with that title, why not elektra? why is she the exception?
The problem is that the fact that slade is 'metahuman' and she is 'peak human' does not make him faster than her at all, even if he has 'superhuman' reflexes and agility. They're just lables and her speed feast are indeed more impressive from what I've seen of them both.

Originally posted by 753
The problem is that the fact that slade is 'metahuman' and she is 'peak human' does not make him faster than her at all, even if he has 'superhuman' reflexes and agility. They're just lables and her speed feast are indeed more impressive from what I've seen of them both.

Pretty much.

Originally posted by 753
The problem is that the fact that slade is 'metahuman' and she is 'peak human' does not make him faster than her at all, even if he has 'superhuman' reflexes and agility. They're just lables and her speed feast are indeed more impressive from what I've seen of them both.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Pretty much.

the thing is, if you've seen some of slade's reaction time/speed feats, how could one even come to that conclusion? Reflex related feats are definitely slade's most impressive category, and most of them are not displayed against cannon fodder like elektra, but grade A, respectable, big name foes, often outmanuevering serveral of them simultaneously.

IMO, this is a great fight........I thought everyone would agree. I knew Elektra was getting tons of respect around here(Srank's and Jinzin's scans are probably the main reason......they are awesome BTW), but I never expected anyone to makes claims like" Slade is inferior to elektra in every way" and suggest she can move faster than someone with genuine superhuman stats(and has more impressive speed feats anyway)

Don't you think they classify these characters the way they do for a reason? Peak humans do things humans can't all the time, in comics what's humanly possible doesn't exactly line up with the real world. you guys are taking feats you deem humanly impossible and therefore concluding for yourself that she is superhuman, but she's no different from any other peak human who regularly does those things.

one thing I do know, 8-9/10(high majority) against slade, not happening. Slade's physical attributes besides strength all > Elektra's........but if I'm not sure of anything else, I'm sure of this:

Slade Wilson AKA Deathstroke the Terminator is not inferior to Elektra in every way, period.

Originally posted by namorsubby
the thing is, if you've seen some of slade's reaction time/speed feats, how could one even come to that conclusion? Reflex related feats are definitely slade's most impressive category, and most of them are not displayed against cannon fodder like elektra, but grade A, respectable, big name foes, often outmanuevering serveral of them simultaneously.

IMO, this is a great fight........I thought everyone would agree. I knew Elektra was getting tons of respect around here(Srank's and Jinzin's scans are probably the main reason......they are awesome BTW), but I never expected anyone to makes claims like" Slade is inferior to elektra in every way" and suggest she can move faster than someone with genuine superhuman stats(and has more impressive speed feats anyway)

Don't you think they classify these characters the way they do for a reason? Peak humans do things humans can't all the time, in comics what's humanly possible doesn't exactly line up with the real world. you guys are taking feats you deem humanly impossible and therefore concluding for yourself that she is superhuman, but she's no different from any other peak human who regularly does those things.

one thing I do know, 8-9/10(high majority) against slade, not happening. Slade's physical attributes besides strength all > Elektra's........but if I'm not sure of anything else, I'm sure of this:

Slade Wilson AKA Deathstroke the Terminator is not inferior to Elektra in every way, period.

It is a great match up, she is not superior to him in every way, there are sevral field he is better at, but I still believe her speed/bullet timing feats are better, not by a very big margin, but still better.

The labels are meaningless, look at Cassandra Cain, she is not a meta-human and yet, she is faster than a crap load of 'superhumanly' fast metas.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Didn't DS dodge Starfire pretty well and avoiding her blasts? She was even surprised of his speed.

Cheshire literally did the exact same thing and Kory exchanged the same dialogue with her as she did Slade.

Both instances had me kicking myself in the teeth in anger and betrayal.

I'll give Elektra a majority. Barring his jobbing of the JLA, Deathstroke really can't win a feat war against her.

Originally posted by namorsubby
the thing is, if you've seen some of slade's reaction time/speed feats, how could one even come to that conclusion? Reflex related feats are definitely slade's most impressive category, and most of them are not displayed against cannon fodder like elektra, but grade A, respectable, big name foes, often outmanuevering serveral of them simultaneously.

Name them.

Originally posted by namorsubby
and suggest she can move faster than someone with genuine superhuman stats(and has more impressive speed feats anyway)



Such as?

Originally posted by namorsubby

Don't you think they classify these characters the way they do for a reason?



"they classifying.." matters not. Name viable DS feats that Elektra CANNOT match/exceed in speed , reflex, agility and martial skill. Slades strength and durability edge are note worthy, but she stands a far better chance here then him. The skill gap is also note worthy.

Originally posted by 753
It is a great match up, she is not superior to him in every way, there are sevral field he is better at, but I still believe her speed/bullet timing feats are better, not by a very big margin, but still better.

The labels are meaningless, look at Cassandra Cain, she is not a meta-human and yet, she is faster than a crap load of 'superhumanly' fast metas. great example actually.

Slade has enough of a speed advantage to toy with cassie casually, and has before. He also has enough combat speed while aided with his superhuman perception and calculation to engage and counteract a group of heroes along with Cassie.


Man, I still haven't even gotten to how I think the fight actually goes.


IMO, this is a lot like Elektra vs Wolverine. Although Logan is more skilled than Slade, slade's superhuman thought processes even the keel IMO

Slade is faster and stronger IMO, but he doesn't have the limiting factor that elektra pointed out to Logan in one of their fights(Logan should be able to take her anyway, IMO). She said she beat him because when he fought her, he thought to much about various things including no being lethal. Slade would have no such problem and has actually lectured people on that while engaging them himself.

Cass jobs to slade, search your heart, you know this to be true!

Originally posted by Konton
.

I'll give Elektra a majority. Barring his jobbing of the JLA, Deathstroke really can't win a feat war against her.

There's just no truth in that statement IMO


One group diassembling feat is not all Slade has going for him, but I'm really started to think that this is the general perception among you and the others. Makes me wish wholeheartedly that I had been able to post all the material for my attempted revamped DS thread before my computer crashed.

Originally posted by namorsubby
There's just no truth in that statement IMO


One group diassembling feat is not all Slade has going for him, but I'm really started to think that this is the general perception among you and the others. Makes me wish wholeheartedly that I had been able to post all the material for my attempted revamped DS thread before my computer crashed.

You seem knowledgeable enough of the character.

His top 5 speed/reaction feats?

Originally posted by namorsubby
great example actually.

Slade has enough of a speed advantage to toy with cassie casually, and has before. He also has enough combat speed while aided with his superhuman perception and calculation to engage and counteract a group of heroes along with Cassie.

I was simply pointing to the fact that she is faster than most 'superfast' metahumans and lables mean nothing. Her bulletdodging feast are better than the ones I know of him as well, including moving back in front of bulets for fun and then getting out of the way.

Originally posted by Konton
Cheshire literally did the exact same thing and Kory exchanged the same dialogue with her as she did Slade.

Both instances had me kicking myself in the teeth in anger and betrayal.

I'll give Elektra a majority. Barring his jobbing of the JLA, Deathstroke really can't win a feat war against her.

Has Cheshire surprised Superman as well? Because Slade has.

Originally posted by namorsubby
There's just no truth in that statement IMO


One group diassembling feat is not all Slade has going for him, but I'm really started to think that this is the general perception among you and the others. Makes me wish wholeheartedly that I had been able to post all the material for my attempted revamped DS thread before my computer crashed.

Yeah, like his fights with Cassandra Cain?

She was already mentioned in thread, and Slade had at least two fights with her. A character who, at her best, was stepping between bullets followed closely together like something out of The Matrix.

Slade wrecked the Titans teams a number of times. Various groupings and stuff. He's done it like 3 times just in the current series alone. He also wrecked a few B list teams casually in his ongoing. The guy is built to be a team wrecker. He just ends up in street level books because that's where he appears to be the biggest threat when he's seen on panel.

For example;
In somewhat of a Infinite Crisis tie in issue in "Batman", Slade representing the Society drops into Gotham by Helicopter, even though he's just there momentarily for a conversation, just seeing him in the city made Jason and Bruce about shit themselves, cussing in unison.

He's just seen as a huge threat to street level competition.

Yes, Slade has certainly been defeated a couple times by DC's top street levelers, but even those are -considerably- the odd ones out next his other feats and battles.

Originally posted by Juk3n
You seem knowledgeable enough of the character.

His top 5 speed/reaction feats? I'll give you more than that.........

but for now, raincheck

Originally posted by namorsubby
I'll give you more than that.........

but for now, raincheck You need to get that respect thread done, man.

Originally posted by Juntai
You need to get that respect thread done, man. lol, I totally had it all way back when.........then the hands of fate decided to crash my computer.I honestly was pretty bummed out and didn't even wanna retry.


...........but now I do.lol



I just started accumulating scans again today, It won't be too long at all now.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Has Cheshire surprised Superman as well? Because Slade has.

What would you say is SM' reaction time? And Slade's?

Slade isn't superhuman. DC stance seems to be "almost superhuman".

Slade has been coined a man with the strength of 10 men kind of like Cap was in the old Invader series.

Slades stats are being overrated in this thread but not as much as Elektra stats are being grosly overrated in this thread. Stat wise Slade are better but its Elektra skill that will give Slade problems for sure.

Characters like Daredevil, Shiva, Batgirl, Batman, Shang Chi, and Elektra do worldly things that look superhuman on paper but are just top humans in there verse and that's whats being confused IMHO.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Slade isn't superhuman. DC stance seems to be "almost superhuman".

Slade has been coined a man with the strength of 10 men kind of like Cap was in the old Invader series.

Slades stats are being overrated in this thread but not as much as Elektra stats are being grosly overrated in this thread. Stat wise Slade are better but its Elektra skill that will give Slade problems for sure.

Characters like Daredevil, Shiva, Batgirl, Batman, Shang Chi, and Elektra do worldly things that look superhuman on paper but are just top humans in there verse and that's whats being confused IMHO. Pretty sure Slade is super human

if this was the rating system slade would barely reach 0.1 on the superhuman scale..


Batman = Slade

0.1.. -0.0+ 0.1

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
if this was the rating system salde would barely reach 0.1 on the superhuman scale..


Batman = Slade

0.1.. -0.0+ 0.1 He has superhuman immortality

yes, he is immortal but that doesnt make him a clearly superior to other street lvlers he is barely above them and not by much..

Originally posted by iceman24567
Pretty sure Slade is super human

DC stance had him at "almost superhuman".

Which has been referenced for Black Panther and Cap as well.


I'm sure you could find some ambiguous comment of him being termed super trooper but its not like we have ever seen before on other enhanced characters.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
yes, he is immortal but that doesnt make him a clearly superior to other street lvlers he is barely above them and not by much..
Even then it's more his brain than his physical stats

does his brain operate like cho's, does he see equations or simply subconsciously plans and strategizes like all competent fighters but unlike him they dont use brain augmentation to use common sense in battle?

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
does his brain operate like chows? does he see equations or simply subconsciously plans and strategizes like all competent fighters but unlike him they dont use brain augmentation to use common sense in battle? Nah his brain operates faster than normal humans i figured thats how he's able to beat strategic fighters like Batman and Dick Grayson

clearly it doesnt help him or put him over the top with elite fighters like NW or david cain i heard canary also gave him problems..

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
clearly it doesnt help him or put him over the top with elite fighters like NW or david cain i heard canary also gave him problems.. It helps him enough to beat them though. I don't remember him having problems with Canary unless it was recently maybe shes a little better in h2h now and he was several leagues below her in past.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Slade isn't superhuman. DC stance seems to be "almost superhuman".

Slade has been coined a man with the strength of 10 men kind of like Cap was in the old Invader series.

Slades stats are being overrated in this thread but not as much as Elektra stats are being grosly overrated in this thread. Stat wise Slade are better but its Elektra skill that will give Slade problems for sure.

Characters like Daredevil, Shiva, Batgirl, Batman, Shang Chi, and Elektra do worldly things that look superhuman on paper but are just top humans in there verse and that's whats being confused IMHO. IDK who told you he wasn't, but slade is indeed a meta.


edit:

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
clearly it doesnt help him or put him over the top with elite fighters like NW or david cain i heard canary also gave him problems..

He took out canary and green arrow easily......only prepping to keep her sonics out of the situation, then soundly whooping them both. and canary is indeed an elite level fighter.

I've seen him purposely take a barrage of NW's blows then put him down iin one move. That and NW admits himself that DS could kill him without breaking a sweat.

even Cassie admits he's faster and knows if he wants to he can easiily put her down.

he beat the shit outta of roy harper in h2h in outsiders and he is also a great fighter. he also purposely tooks blows to get him in a position for defeat.


slade>all those guys easily

Elektra is to skilled for him.

Originally posted by amnesia
Elektra is still a female, so she is weaker than captain America. And Slade is probably one of the more skilled in the DCU. sexist

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
if this was the rating system slade would barely reach 0.1 on the superhuman scale..


Batman = Slade

0.1.. -0.0+ 0.1
Deathstroke is clearly more superhuman than Batman is. Even though Batman is a good deal more skilled Deathstroke still proves his superior in every encounter, something that can only be accounted for by superhuman stats.

Originally posted by namorsubby
IDK who told you he wasn't, but slade is indeed a meta.





Meta with a strength that isn't superhuman. There are lots of meta's without true superhuman strength. Read Slade DC file they say and book story which clearly state "almost superhuman".

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Meta with a strength that isn't superhuman. There are lots of meta's without true superhuman strength. Read Slade DC file they say and book story which clearly state "almost superhuman". his strength is superhuman.

idk where you're getting this from, but I've seen him referenced as meta a million times, but not "almost superhuman"

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Meta with a strength that isn't superhuman. There are lots of meta's without true superhuman strength. Read Slade DC file they say and book story which clearly state "almost superhuman". lol, the guy can leap over 60 feet in a jump.
'almost superhuman'?

Originally posted by iceman24567
It helps him enough to beat them though. I don't remember him having problems with Canary unless it was recently maybe shes a little better in h2h now and he was several leagues below her in past.

In Birds, she poked out his good eye, but she wasn't alone, she had Huntress to help with a distraction.


Even blind, he acted pretty confident that he'd win.

Originally posted by Q99
In Birds, she poked out his good eye, but she wasn't alone, she had Huntress to help with a distraction.


Even blind, he acted pretty confident that he'd win. Birds of prey #90......that's one of may fav slade appearances.

DS was effortlessly whooping on BC, Huntress, Creote, and Lady Blackhawk.......BC did puncture his eye though, after he snapped her arm and huntress stabbed him.

in the end I think Savant saved them. good comic

Originally posted by namorsubby
Birds of prey #90......that's one of may fav slade appearances.

DS was effortlessly whooping on BC, Huntress, Creote, and Lady Blackhawk.......BC did puncture his eye though, after he snapped her arm and huntress stabbed him.

in the end I think Savant saved them. good comic

Yea, Savant shot him in the back in the end.

I'll note Canary had her arm get snapped as part of a plan, since she knew it was the only way she'd get close enough to do the eye thing. I think she was planning to go for the Cry next now that he was blind and she might have room to pull it off, but Zinda got too close... then bam, Savant.

Deathstroke.

Originally posted by Juntai
lol, the guy can leap over 60 feet in a jump.
'almost superhuman'?


So Cap has jumped up a building and he isn't labeled true superhuman and a high tree about 50 ft.

Heck Cap strength feats are overall better then Slades and he isn't labeled super human.

'almost superhuman' is what is in his origin story in Slades own run. His DC file only list superhuman stamina and cordination.....not strength.

a lot of us give cap the nod with being superhuman and not peak he does things way above what any single peak can do in marvel he appears to be the only "peak" that can do the sh$# he does..

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
a lot of us give cap the nod with being superhuman and not peak he does things way above what any single peak can do in marvel he appears to be the only "peak" that can do the sh$# he does..


I don't. Batman is peak in the sense of a man in his prime like Daredevil. There peak human but that is not the same when you know the definition of Cap's peak as in the peak of human potential. That supposedly made him the next step in human evolution.


As Batman and Daredevil are close to peak human(since there not at the true peak of human potential like Cap.) Cap and Slade are close to Superhuman. Cap/Slade are in between Human and Superhuman. That's why there feats look incredible at times in gray areas compared to others.

Originally posted by Juntai
lol, the guy can leap over 60 feet in a jump.
'almost superhuman'?

Daredevil ran across a grappling line and caught a bullet train.

by the way DD is olympic his radar makes him appears peak but he isnt only in reflex but its a psuedo peak speed.. maybe peak agility but he is not overall peak like Cap is.

DD is peak human, Cap is enhanced (aka low level superhuman).

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
DD is peak human, Cap is enhanced (aka low level superhuman). he is not ppl stop saying that!!

he is olympic in marvel and comparable to bats in DC ..

peak in DC olympic in marvel

where would you place frank?

shang Chi

the cat

bullseye

Regardless of whether or not Cap's primary stats like strength and speed are enhanced or just peak he does have one indisputably superhuman asset: his stamina.

I think his stamina is what would give him the edge over Batman in a prolonged slugfest.

what about nueral kinetics? (sees bullets)

or denser bones and muscles( creates craters when jumping out of hovering choppers)

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
he is not ppl stop saying that!!

he is olympic in marvel and comparable to bats in DC ..

peak in DC olympic in marvel

where would you place frank?

shang Chi

the cat

bullseye

He is.

Shang-Chi and Cat are both pushing superhuman and Bullseye is peak with the exception of durability which is superhuman.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
what about nueral kinetics? (sees bullets)

or denser bones and muscles( creates craters when jumping out of hovering choppers)
What kind of soil did he land in? Makes a huge difference.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
What kind of soil did he land in? Makes a huge difference.

Concrete.

Anyone and everyone is pretty much pushing peak human. To the point that's it's not impressive anymore.

Screw the titles, anyone who can do what they do should be concidered a super human.

ill make a category for cap. he is high peak human. agree with Omega Vision about his stamina being above human level. it takes a looong time for him to tire cause of his super soldier serum. that's prolly why he outclasses some low level superhumans/metas because he fights at his highest level for a long period of time.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Regardless of whether or not Cap's primary stats like strength and speed are enhanced or just peak he does have one indisputably superhuman asset: his stamina.

Which in turn lets him push his other stats more. He can do stuff that'd exhaust a peak human and keep going.

Call me crazy but I say once you can run faster than 60mph, you are no longer peak human. Looking at you Captain America.

Peak human is whatever comics say it is. It's just a label, like omega mutant, people should let go of it cause it has no inherent meaning.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Call me crazy but I say once you can run faster than 60mph, you are no longer peak human. Looking at you Captain America. Different definition of the term "peak human" when in reference to cap. Cap is as good as the human species could ever be.


but still though, he doesn't do much of anything that any grade A, peak human streetleveler has not achieved(batman, DD, etc)

Originally posted by namorsubby
Different definition of the term "peak human" when in reference to cap. Cap is as good as the human species could ever be.


but still though, he doesn't do much of anything that any grade A, peak human streetleveler has not achieved(batman, DD, etc)

Cap has been called "enhanced" on panel way more than he has ever been called "peak human." Peak human is a classifier for hand books, more than comics.

alright.....just sayin

I can't believe Wild Shadow didn't get shit on for saying DD wasn't peak human. I literally spit my coffee onto my computer screen when I read that.

Originally posted by Konton
I can't believe Wild Shadow didn't get shit on for saying DD wasn't peak human. I literally spit my coffee onto my computer screen when I read that.
Thats because the statement is ridiculous, and warrents no comment. Personally my mind just wrote it out of existance.

Because Daredevil isn't Peak human(not like Cap anyways) by Marvel stance.

A great athlete with DD's special skill set can do what he does. Because that's what DD is by Marvel.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Because Daredevil isn't Peak human(not like Cap anyways) by Marvel stance.

A great athlete with DD's special skill set can do what he does. Because that's what DD is by Marvel.

Thankfully no one cares what 'Marvel' say it's what the comic books show.

Daredevil is peak human. He's stronger than any olympian weight lifter or strongman (flipping a limo with 4 people inside) (twirling a 400lb barbell like a frickin baton) fast enough to deflect bullets with his billy club, more agile than the Batman. He's peak by todays standards. Cap is peak by the standards for the rest of human evolutionary existance (up to point)

Peak just mean they are as fast/strong/agile/quick as any human can get without outside influence, (like a serum or a gamma bomb or cosmic radiation ). Daredevil is among them. So are people like Elektra, Batman, Shang-Chi at base, Cassandra Cain. Look at the difference between someone who is HIGHLY trained , in shape and Not peak, for instance Cyclops. Now compare him physically with Daredevil. Thats the difference.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Different definition of the term "peak human" when in reference to cap. Cap is as good as the human species could ever be.


but still though, he doesn't do much of anything that any grade A, peak human streetleveler has not achieved(batman, DD, etc)
when has either of them been clocked at 60 miles an hour?

hell DD straight up stated that he capt faster then him on two occassion I believe.

capt strength feats as well are much higher.

actaully DS feats in inferior to capts over all in terms of physical prowesses being shown...........

Originally posted by Battlehammer
when has either of them been clocked at 60 miles an hour?

hell DD straight up stated that he capt faster then him on two occassion I believe.

capt strength feats as well are much higher.

actaully DS feats in inferior to capts over all in terms of physical prowesses being shown...........

Seriously. Slade doesn't even have a legitimate strength feat in the standard DC U. When the Chain Gang locked him up he couldn't even break the bars, he spent days filling them down so he could escape.

Originally posted by Battlehammer


actaully DS feats in inferior to capts over all in terms of physical prowesses being shown...........


True. Cap's strength feats are better then Slades.

But IMO Slade and Cap I place them as equals.

Both have been stated to be almost superhuman. Both have been stated to faster or stronger then there peers like Daredevil for Cap or Batgirl for Slade.

Both have been coined strength of 10. Both have enhanced minds and both are military enhanced.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
when has either of them been clocked at 60 miles an hour?

hell DD straight up stated that he capt faster then him on two occassion I believe.

capt strength feats as well are much higher.

actaully DS feats in inferior to capts over all in terms of physical prowesses being shown........... Much higher?

cap's, bats, and slade's feats of strength are IMO, no better than the other.

Darthgoober sent my like all the strength feats he had of cap way back, and I'm going to tell you:

bar breaking
Chain breaking
wall punching

pretty much all any of those guys have to offer in strength feats. Slade's official rating is higher though, that's a fact.

and to that last statement......hell no.

Slade's official rating isn't higher then Cap.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Slade's official rating isn't higher then Cap. 2 tons?......yeah

Originally posted by namorsubby
2 tons?......yeah Does it say somewhere he can lift 2 tons or is that a estimation?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Does it say somewhere he can lift 2 tons or is that a estimation?
10 times an athletic human (who can lift 300-400 lbs).

Originally posted by Omega Vision
10 times an athletic human (who can lift 300-400 lbs).
actaully it was simply ten times human to assume they are individuals who can lift 300-400 pounds is absurd.

Originally posted by namorsubby
2 tons?......yeah
first off he neevr been stated as 2 tons and that not even higher then capt

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Seriously. Slade doesn't even have a legitimate strength feat in the standard DC U. When the Chain Gang locked him up he couldn't even break the bars, he spent days filling them down so he could escape. Just story purposes. Even Bruce has snapped, bent and broken bars when he felt like it. And Slade is his physical superior.

Then again, Bruce's feats are just insane for a human. The guy could stress a thick tempered steel support beam that supports a building with a kick. Several characters have commented that with his harder strikes - not holding back - he hits like he has superhuman strength.

Even Dick and Tim were shown training together chopping tree-like thick logs in half with strikes, like the old panel of Bruce in training. I believe Dick did one of them while upside down balancing on one hand on top of a pole, if I remember right.

Bat-family is just crazy.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Different definition of the term "peak human" when in reference to cap. Cap is as good as the human species could ever be.


but still though, he doesn't do much of anything that any grade A, peak human streetleveler has not achieved(batman, DD, etc)

DD said Cap was faster. On at least two ocassions Batman has said Cap was superior.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Seriously. Slade doesn't even have a legitimate strength feat in the standard DC U. When the Chain Gang locked him up he couldn't even break the bars, he spent days filling them down so he could escape.

Are you lowballing again?

Originally posted by Deadline
On at least two ocassions Batman has said Cap was superior when? and is it canon?


if you're refering to their JLA/avengers Meeting, that has to be one of the most misqouted statements in comics.

Batman said "it's concievable that you could beat me, avenger, but it would take a very long time"

Everyone interprets that as Bruce conceding to the fact that Steve has more stamina and would eventually beat him. How?, I have no idea.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
first off he neevr been stated as 2 tons and that not even higher then capt

2 tons isn't higher than Cap? Confused, much?


800-1200 lbs = Cap, not 4000 lbs.lol

Originally posted by namorsubby
when? and is it canon?


Nope but I would thought id mention it.

Originally posted by namorsubby

if you're refering to their JLA/avengers Meeting, that has to be one of the most misqouted statements in comics.

Batman said "it's concievable that you could beat me, avenger, but it would take a very long time"

Everyone interprets that as Bruce conceding to the fact that Steve has more stamina and would eventually beat him. How?, I have no idea.

No the writer confirmed that Batman mean't Cap was superior. I had better stop now or I could get into trouble with the mods.

He said it's concievable that he could beat him, how is that the same?

Originally posted by namorsubby
He said it's concievable that he could beat him, how is that the same?

Originally posted by Deadline
.

No the writer confirmed that Batman mean't Cap was superior.

Okay, show me.


I still don't see how anyone can get that out of that statement though.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Okay, show me.

The site were the quotes were taken from has been pruned and no longer exists. However you can look at this quote and go to the thread and I see us discussing this.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Chuckg
Don't you think Batman should be able to defeat Captain America by using his leopard blow?

kurtbusiek
No, not particularly.

Chuckg
That really should be interpreted that Batman thinks he'd beat Cap, doesn't it, since Batman is the far more skilled fighter?

kurtbusiek
You can interpret it how you like, but my intent was that Batman was noting that Cap is the more skilled.

kdb

http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/web/thread.jspa?threadID=39153878&start=0&tstart=0

It's from page 45

Theres also this.

http://img10.imageshack.us/i/dcdbatcap2c.jpg/

Obvously they had to say almost because it would have pissed off fans.


Heres what Brubaker said about Cap and Batman. Again the site has been moved or pruned but I used direct quotes and didn't alter anything.

Originally posted by Deadline
Caps is above peak human. These are quotes from Ed Brubaker. Thanks go to Daredevil1 for finding them.

http://www.comicboards.com/camb/view.php?rpl=060330214926

"Just physical exertion. While I don't think of Cap as 'super' like Spider-man or Superman, he's clearly not Batman with a shield. He's not just like a guy who works out all the time and is trained. He's been enhanced, and I wanted to show that a bit."

"See, I never understand why everyone gets so worked up about this stuff. Cap was given the Super-Soldier Serum. The first word there is SUPER. He's not superman, but clearly, he's been shown to be much faster and stronger than a well-trained athlete, many many times. One of everyone's favorite Cap appearances seems to be DD: Born Again, where he's shown running to fast that he's a breeze."

http://www.comicboards.com/camb/view.php?rpl=060418204829&q=ed%20brubaker

"I see it as he's the ultimate of human potential. Not something the modern man could ever be, but like an evolutionary next-step, basically. He's not Thor or Spiderman, but he's not Batman, either."

Originally posted by namorsubby

I still don't see how anyone can get that out of that statement though.

Lets face it though you're not interested in being objective are you? You are arguing over a point which is very simple to understand. It has nothing to do with intepretation. The writer is God and knows what Batman was thinking and the writer knows what Batman mean't was that Cap was superior.

lol, If the writers indeed did say so, I just wanted proof, that's all, because they in no way whatsoever implied it by Batman's dialogue in JLA/Avengers. That other scan also doesn't solidify or support that notion.

It's not being difficult or objective to simply ask for a reason to believe what someone says.

It's non-canon anyway.

Originally posted by namorsubby
That other scan also doesn't solidify or support that notion.


Yes but it supports what other writers have said about Batman. You understand that if they said he had a slight edge that it could piss off fans so they have to play it down. Its obvious thats the writer is intending to say Cap is superior but trying to downplay it.

Originally posted by namorsubby

It's not being difficult or objective to simply ask for a reason to believe what someone says.

You missed the point, nevermind.

Originally posted by namorsubby

It's non-canon anyway.

True but exceptions with non-canon sources have been made on this board if you can prove that the character are not any different than they are in mainstream. Common sense dictates though that this could be used as proof, theres a reason why all these writers think that Cap is superior.

Fact of the matter is you really can't give me anything that blantantly proves that Batman is superior, I can vice versa.

no, you can't.


Darthgoober Tried. I still have like a million strength feats he sent me in my inbox

Originally posted by namorsubby
no, you can't.

The writers? Who has ever stated anywhere that Batman is superior to Cap in comics?

Originally posted by namorsubby

Darthgoober Tried. I still have like a million strength feats he sent me in my inbox

Not sure if that would prove it but Caps feats and opponents are generally superior and thats probably one of the reasons why people have said what they said.

Originally posted by Deadline
The writers? Who has ever stated anywhere that Batman is superior to Cap in comics?



Not sure if that would prove it but Caps feats and opponents are generally superior and thats probably one of the reasons why people have said what they said.

I Mean you can't show me anything that blatantly proves Cap to be physically superior.

no, they're not. 99% of people who support the notion that cap is superior support it based on JLA/avengers, which I have never myself understood.


Seriously though, when it comes to human superheroes, you really can't find more top-notch, sometimes absurdly impressive feats than in the pages of a Batman appearance.

Originally posted by namorsubby
I Mean you can't show me anything that blatantly proves Cap to be physically superior.

Um Batman stating that Cap is? No offence though some of it needs a bit of common sense like the other scan I posted.

Originally posted by namorsubby

no, they're not. 99% of people who support the notion that cap is superior support it based on JLA/avengers, which I have never myself understood.

They're not what? To hell with them, you think the wrietrs came to that conclusion from reading JLA/Avengers? Brubaker for starters has wriiten for both Batman and Captain America.

You don't think its funny almost every time that Batman has met Cap in comics it ends up with Cap looking superior and not Batman.

Originally posted by namorsubby

Seriously though, when it comes to human superheroes, you really can't find more top-notch, sometimes absurdly impressive feats than in the pages of a Batman appearance.

So that changes the fact that Caps feats in general are better?

Originally posted by Deadline
Um Batman stating that Cap is? No offence though some of it needs a bit of common sense like the other scan I posted.



They're not what? To hell with them, you think the wrietrs came to that conclusion from reading JLA/Avengers? Brubaker for starters has wriiten for both Batman and Captain America.

You don't think its funny almost every time that Batman has met Cap in comics it ends up with Cap looking superior and not Batman.



So that changes the fact that Caps feats in general are better?

All of it needs an actual statement that supports your notion. Fact is, Batman has never stated that in comics.

I'm sure he hasn't written every appearance for both characters, right? So he himself might want to display Cap as physically superior to Bruce(although it doesn't show in his actual writing), but he's just one writer. What about all the rest?

Every time Cap and Bats have met, they fight for a very short time to a complete stalemate, so what do you mean?

they're not is what I'm trying to hit at. I wouldn't place Batman's feats in general second to any other human character in comics. He's just that favored and over-powered. Everyone knows it.

Originally posted by namorsubby
All of it needs an actual statement that supports your notion. Fact is, Batman has never stated that in comics.

He doesnt need to Busiek confirmed it and in that other comic they were trying to imply it.

Originally posted by namorsubby

I'm sure he hasn't written every appearance for both characters, right? So he himself might want to display Cap as physically superior to Bruce(although it doesn't show in his actual writing), but he's just one writer. What about all the rest?

Again you are showing your bias and this is exactly what I was talking about. The writer confirmed what Batman mean't. It was an ambigous statement and busiek confirmed it. Hell you get an ambigous statement in the Bible and God tells you what it means, do you argue with God? facepalm

There are two other writers. Brubaker and that other guy. Please show me anywhere in comics where its been stated that Batman is superior.


Originally posted by namorsubby

Every time Cap and Bats have met, they fight for a very short time to a complete stalemate, so what do you mean?

It doesnt matter if it was a short time batman is a master martial artist and he deduced he would lose in a long fight. Brubaker obvoulsy feels the same and again that comic implied it.

Originally posted by namorsubby

they're not is what I'm trying to hit at. I wouldn't place Batman's feats in general second to any other human character in comics. He's just that favored and over-powered. Everyone knows it.

Are Captain Americas feats and opponents generally superior or not?

Originally posted by Deadline
He doesnt need to Busiek confirmed it and in that other comic they were trying to imply it.



Again you are showing your bias and this is exactly what I was talking about. The writer confirmed what Batman mean't. It was an ambigous statement and busiek confirmed it. Hell you get an ambigous statement in the Bible and God tells you what it means, do you argue with God? facepalm

There are two other writers. Brubaker and that other guy. Please show me anywhere in comics where its been stated that Batman is superior.




It doesnt matter if it was a short time batman is a master martial artist and he deduced he would lose in a long fight. Brubaker obvoulsy feels the same and again that comic implied it.



Are Captain Americas feats and opponents generally superior or not?

I haven't seen/heard Busiek confirm anything, and you're simply speculating that they were implying it.

How in the world am I showing bias. I haven't even seen this supposed Writer statement and you expect me to just concede to it? Don't accuse me of being biased because you simply can't provide me any reason to believe your statements besides what you think a comic implies and "he-say-she-say"

he didn't deduce he'd lose anything. He said he could lose, why more you trying to past that off as something more than it is?

no.That's why these non-canon instances mean nothing, besides the fact that they are non-canon, I mean.

Originally posted by namorsubby
I haven't seen/heard Busiek confirm anything, and you're simply speculating that they were implying it.

How in the world am I showing bias. I haven't even seen this supposed Writer statement and you expect me to just concede to it? Don't accuse me of being biased because you simply can't provide me any reason to believe your statements besides what you think a comic implies and "he-say-she-say"

Its pretty obvious that he did though isn't it? You can actually go to the thread and see us discussing it. If the guy had altered the text people would have said so.

Originally posted by namorsubby

he didn't deduce he'd lose anything. He said he could lose, why more you trying to past that off as something more than it is?


Exactly so even if I did have what the writer said you would be still arguing that it doesn't count. Thank you for that.

Originally posted by namorsubby

no.That's why these non-canon instances mean nothing, besides the fact that they are non-canon, I mean.

What Brubaker said wasn't in a comic. On this forum JLA/Avengers is non-canon but theres planety of evidence it is. Yes on this forum non-canon doesn't count except for some exceptions but just because its non-canon don't mean its crap. What DC?Marvel crossover is canon?

Again for the third time now. Aren't Caps showings generally more impressive and arent his opponents generally tougher. You're are avoding the question.

Originally posted by Deadline
Its pretty obvious that he did though isn't it? You can actually go to the thread and see us discussing it. If the guy had altered the text people would have said so.



Exactly so even if I did have what the writer said you would be still arguing that it doesn't count. Thank you for that.



What Brubaker said wasn't in a comic. On this forum JLA/Avengers is non-canon but theres planety of evidence it is. Yes on this forum non-canon doesn't count except for some exceptions but just because its non-canon don't mean its crap. What DC?Marvel crossover is canon?

Again for the third time now. Aren't Caps showings generally more impressive and arent his opponents generally tougher. You're are avoding the question.

Idk what that Writer said, and it's seems likely that guys who want Cap to be physically superior could take the words of the writer and speculate/infer them into something concrete. Like you've done with the comic instances

How you got all that from my statement, I don't know, but yeah, I would. Why? because what one writer thinks doesn't superceed all of comics. and if that one writer didn't even make his belief clear by his writing in a comic that's non-canon and irrelevant anyway, why does it matter?

Ed whoever might think cap is physically superior, and he might of even wanted to portray that in JLA/avengers, but the fact that he didn't, at least not definitively, and the fact that the comic doesn't even apply because it's non-canon means that it holds no bearing in your arguement.

okay, ed thinks cap is superior. You think Cap is implied to be superior in some non-canon books, but how does that transfer to canon comics?

The only thing that would convince me Cap is physically superior is a blatant showing of superiority on cap's behalf in general comic appearances(like you said you could provide), which doesn't exist. No, I don't think cap has obviously superior feats is what I'm saying. I`m pretty sure I aswered that question several times for you

Originally posted by namorsubby
Idk what that Writer said, and it's seems likely that guys who want Cap to be physically superior could take the words of the writer and speculate/infer them into something concrete. Like you've done with the comic instances

LOL I've seen the statement with my own eyes and so have numerous other posters. LOL if you go to herochat its a well known fact he said it.

Originally posted by namorsubby

How you got all that from my statement, I don't know, but yeah, I would. Why? because what one writer thinks doesn't superceed all of comics. and if that one writer didn't even make his belief clear by his writing in a comic that's non-canon and irrelevant anyway, why does it matter?

Again showing your bias. Read and comprehend.

The writer confirmed what Batman mean't. It was an ambigous statement and busiek confirmed it. Hell you get an ambigous statement in the Bible and God tells you what it means, do you argue with God?

This is exactly what im talking about. Its one thing to argue that you didn't see the quote but its another thing to argue with the writer.




Originally posted by namorsubby

Ed whoever might think cap is physically superior, and he might of even wanted to portray that in JLA/avengers, but the fact that he didn't, at least not definitively, and the fact that the comic doesn't even apply because it's non-canon means that it holds no bearing in your arguement.

okay, ed thinks cap is superior. You think Cap is implied to be superior in some non-canon books, but how does that transfer to canon comics?


just because its non-canon don't make it crap its consistent with what Brubaker thought. Like I said theres lots of proof JLA/Avengers is canon but its been made exempt from debates because of the fuss it kicks off.

Originally posted by namorsubby

The only thing that would convince me Cap is physically superior is a blatant showing of superiority on cap's behalf in general comic appearances(like you said you could provide), which doesn't exist. No, I don't think cap has obviously superior feats is what I'm saying. I`m pretty sure I aswered that question several times for you

Please explain to me why they're not. Lots of batman comics involve him fighting thugs and a big portion of his rogue galleries can't even fight that well. Hell you could give even give a direct comparsion when I was collecting Batman and Cap while Batman was fighting street thugs Cap was fighting trained Kree Soldiers, A super skrull and other metahumans.

Originally posted by Deadline
LOL I've seen the statement with my own eyes and so have numerous other posters. LOL if you go to herochat its a well known fact he said it.



Again showing your bias. Read and comprehend.

The writer confirmed what Batman mean't. It was an ambigous statement and busiek confirmed it. Hell you get an ambigous statement in the Bible and God tells you what it means, do you argue with God?

This is exactly what im talking about. Its one thing to argue that you didn't see the quote but its another thing to argue with the writer.






just because its non-canon don't make it crap its consistent with what Brubaker thought. Like I said theres lots of proof JLA/Avengers is canon but its been made exempt from debates because of the fuss it kicks off.



Please explain to me why they're not. Lots of batman comics involve him fighting thugs and a big portion of his rogue galleries can't even fight that well. Hell you could give even give a direct comparsion when I was collecting Batman and Cap while Batman was fighting street thugs Cap was fighting trained Kree Soldiers, A super skrull and other metahumans.

I didn't call you a liar, I just don't know what he said and what you and others may have taken it to mean.

No, I'm not. Ed can believe what he wants. Ed can even make cap superior in a non-canon book, but ED can't superceed the actual feats of both characters in canon comics. That is all that matters, whether Cap shows an obvious edge in feats in canon comics, nothing else.

I'm not calling it crap, but if the writer himself feels like cap should be superior, it wouldn't matter if canon feats are backing it. He can write it how he wants to.

They're not because IMO no human character can claim to display an obvious edge in physicality in general feats when compared to Batman. He just to consistently overpowered and favored.

Batman fights and beats superhumans all the time.

Originally posted by namorsubby
I didn't call you a liar, I just don't know what he said and what you and others may have taken it to mean.

I know.

Originally posted by namorsubby

No, I'm not. Ed can believe what he wants. Ed can even make cap superior in a non-canon book, but ED can't superceed the actual feats of both characters in canon comics. That is all that matters, whether Cap shows an obvious edge in feats in canon comics, nothing else.

I'm not calling it crap, but if the writer himself feels like cap should be superior, it wouldn't matter if canon feats are backing it. He can write it how he wants to.

Yes undertand that but you're not getting the point, but since its non-canon forget it.

Originally posted by namorsubby

They're not because IMO no human character can claim to display an obvious edge in physicality in general feats when compared to Batman. He just to consistently overpowered and favored.

Oh really. You read Knightfall,Knightsend, Cataclaysm and No Mans Land? I can tell you right now there is a disticnt lack of metahumans and highly skilled opponents, most of his enemies were thugs. I think you're in denial.

Originally posted by namorsubby

Batmnan fights and beats superhumans all the time.

No he doesn't actually from what I've seen he fights alot of thugs. Not saying he can't and hasn't im saying cap does it alot more often.

It's a well known fact that Batman always seems to be tackling some feat that everyone deems out of his powerlevel. Many complain about it, some encourage it; It may be a negative or a positive, either way, it makes it hard to believe that some other human character out there has more routine examples of outstanding feats, even cap. And yeah, he's known for beating superpowered heroes/villians in a fashion that will always provoke claims of PIS, but he does it so often that many disagree with those claims

Originally posted by namorsubby
It's a well known fact that Batman always seems to be tackling some feat that everyone deems out of his powerlevel. Many complain about it, some encourage it; It may be a negative or a positive, either way, it makes it hard to believe that some other human character out there has more routine examples of outstanding feats, even cap. And yeah, he's known for beating superpowered heroes/villians in a fashion that will always provoke claims of PIS, but he does it so often that many disagree with those claims

You did not address the issue. Im not arguing that Batman hasn't fought superhumans and fought alot of them. Im talking about what he does in general. Pick up a captain America comic and he will generally be fighting metahumans or fighting humans more dangerous than thugs. Alot of Batman comics involve him fighting Two face and some thugs, Scarface and some thugs, Kller Croc and some thugs and more thugs.

Originally posted by namorsubby
2 tons?......yeah


Deathstroke has never been stated capable of lifting 2 tons.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
actaully it was simply ten times human to assume they are individuals who can lift 300-400 pounds is absurd.



Cap has also been stated to be 10 times human and in another reference. Doesn't mean Cap is considered a 2 ton lifting character until its actually pronounced as such same for Slade.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Cap has also been stated to be 10 times human and in another reference. Doesn't mean Cap is considered a 2 ton lifting character until its actually pronounced as such same for Slade. when/where has cap been referenced as ten times human?

Slade has actually been referenced in comics as 20 times human strength before, and his reflexes has been said to be "instantaneous". He also has claimed his senses to be increased a thousandfold.

That puts him squarely at meta and above cap.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Deathstroke has never been stated capable of lifting 2 tons.

I'm skimming through all of his appearances for his thread, I'll find the statement eventually.

Originally posted by Deadline
You did not address the issue. Im not arguing that Batman hasn't fought superhumans and fought alot of them. Im talking about what he does in general. Pick up a captain America comic and he will generally be fighting metahumans or fighting humans more dangerous than thugs. Alot of Batman comics involve him fighting Two face and some thugs, Scarface and some thugs, Kller Croc and some thugs and more thugs.

Concession accepted.

lol, no one's conceding to anything, Deadline. Fact is, if you think batman generally fights just thugs than you need to brush up on your reading, nuff said about that.

This is Elektra Vs. Deathstroke BTW.

absurd disagreement always sidetracks me.lol

Originally posted by namorsubby



IMO, this is a lot like Elektra vs Wolverine. Although Logan is more skilled than Slade, slade's superhuman thought processes even the keel IMO

Slade is faster and stronger IMO, but he doesn't have the limiting factor that elektra pointed out to Logan in one of their fights(Logan should be able to take her anyway, IMO). She said she beat him because when he fought her, he thought too much about various things including not being lethal. Slade would have no such problem and has actually lectured people on that while engaging them himself.

Originally posted by namorsubby
lol, no one's conceding to anything, Deadline. Fact is, if you think batman generally fights just thugs than you need to brush up on your reading, nuff said about that.



He doesn't just fight thugs obvoulsy there are other Metas and other skilled humans but there are alot of thugs in there and I can do direct comparisons. You're just in denail I just gave you a list of arcs which I read and those are ALOT of Batman comics. The fact that Caps rogues gallery is more formidable speaks for itself.

Knightfall
Knightsend
Cataclysm
No Mans Land (Hell No Mans Land ain't even an arc it was a massive Batman crossover and I think it lasted at least a year)
Other Batman comics. Legends Of the Dark Knight etc.

I need to brush up? Bullshit.

Since Cap generally has better stats, than obviously his rogues would too. Batman's has the best rogues gallery, though./

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Since Cap generally has better stats, than obviously his rogues would too.

Obvoulsy hes just in denial.

Originally posted by Deadline
He doesn't just fight thugs obvoulsy there are other Metas and other skilled humans but there are alot of thugs in there and I can do direct comparisons. You're just in denail I just gave you a list of arcs which I read and those are ALOT of Batman comics. The fact that Caps rogues gallery is more formidable speaks for itself.

Knightfall
Knightsend
Cataclysm
No Mans Land (Hell No Mans Land ain't even an arc it was a massive Batman crossover and I think it lasted at least a year)
Other Batman comics. Legends Of the Dark Knight etc.

I need to brush up? Bullshit. denial about?

the fact that Batman routinely goes out of his own rogue gallery to fight superhuman threats as he's been in many assorted superhuman teams regularly over the years should speak for itself. not only that, but superhuman foes pop up all the time in batman's own titles. anyone who reads Batman knows that he is known for meta-human ownage and tackling things which seem squarely out of his power range......either through contigency of just straight up determination/cleverness


This is Elektra Vs Deathstroke BTW

Originally posted by namorsubby
denial about?

the fact that Batman routinely goes out of his own rogue gallery to fight superhuman threats as he's been in many assorted superhuman teams regularly over the years should speak for itself. not only that, but superhuman foes pop up all the time in batman's own titles. anyone who reads Batman knows that he is known for meta-human ownage and tackling things which seem squarely out of his power range......either through contigency of just straight up determination/cleverness


This is Elektra Vs Deathstroke BTW

Then go here.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=387943&pagenumber=107

Originally posted by namorsubby
when/where has cap been referenced as ten times human?

Slade has actually been referenced in comics as 20 times human strength before, and his reflexes has been said to be "instantaneous". He also has claimed his senses to be increased a thousandfold.

That puts him squarely at meta and above cap.

Cap was stated to have the strength of 10 in Cap V4 #17 and he was stated to have the strength and agility of half a platoon of fighting men, in the Invaders vol 1 series.

Slade I heard himself say 10 men not 20.





Sound's good. Lets see it.

Damn.. you guys are STILL on about this crap?

Hehe..

Cap is pretty much = to Deathstroke in physicality, not sure how that's even remotely up for debate.

As for the fight. Elektra would probably be able to stalemate DS in most facets of the fight but I think his "meh" healing factor and general durability gives him an edge to take enough from Elektra to capitalize on openings. She shouldn't be able to beat him for the majority.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Cap was stated to have the strength of 10 in Cap V4 #17 and he was stated to have the strength and agility of half a platoon of fighting men, in the Invaders vol 1 series.

Slade I heard himself say 10 men not 20.





Sound's good. Lets see it. the 20 men thing is already on my thread, when he fights WW. check it out.

half a platoon? I read the whole invades series from the 70's and don't seem to recall, but really, you don't think it may have been more figurative than literal? I mean, half a platoon??? that could mean anywhere from 8 to 25 soldiers.

Same thing goes for Cap V4 #17(which I just read). How does the nazi general that just fetched him from the water know the exact parameters of his strength? I think that was a more figurative expression due to him just waking up and thrashing everybody.

also, on the cover, it said "Marvel MK" in the left hand corner. Does that stand for "Marvel Knights"?

Anyway, point is:

Slade's reflexes are considered instantaneous. His senses have been stated to been increased a thousandfold. in WW V2 #62a, he was stated as having the strength of twenty men(not to mention he was fighting Diana in that comic). His attributes are clearly meta. Feats support his physical superiority in all areas, save strength, which he is running inconvienently low on.

According to feats, Steve is way more comparable and/or equal to Batman, than Slade. The familarities of the origin of their power, along with some misinterpreted statements in the non-canon company crossover interactions between Bruce and Steve no doubt lead to the common misconception.

Originally posted by namorsubby
the 20 men thing is already on my thread, when he fights WW. check it out.

half a platoon? I read the whole invades series from the 70's and don't seem to recall, but really, you don't think it may have been more figurative than literal? I mean, half a platoon??? that could mean anywhere from 8 to 25 soldiers.

Same thing goes for Cap V4 #17(which I just read). How does the nazi general that just fetched him from the water know the exact parameters of his strength? I think that was a more figurative expression due to him just waking up and thrashing everybody.

also, on the cover, it said "Marvel MK" in the left hand corner. Does that stand for "Marvel Knights"?

Anyway, point is:

Slade's reflexes are considered instantaneous. His senses have been stated to been increased a thousandfold. in WW V2 #62a, he was stated as having the strength of twenty men(not to mention he was fighting Diana in that comic). His attributes are clearly meta. Feats support his physical superiority in all areas, save strength, which he is running inconvienently low on.

According to feats, Steve is way more comparable and/or equal to Batman, than Slade. The familarities of the origin of their power, along with some misinterpreted statements in the non-canon company crossover interactions between Bruce and Steve no doubt lead to the common misconception.




Steve feats are better then Slades and better in feats of strength. Jinzin even pointed this out a poster whom I've debated with. Even in your bio of your respect thread of Slade shows his wife mention "almost Superhuman" and in his DC bio that you also posted showed what they consider super his coordination and his stamina. Not his other stats. His instantaneous could be figurative as well as his fight with WW that you mention.


You think he's class 2 and yet you haven't really proved it as well. I have a statement that Cap's been given the powers of a God. That trumps 20 men. If you really want to prove Slade is truthfully stronger then show him throwing a car or something.

Otherwise Cap's feats look better overall.

Also I just checked your thread were does it say Slade has the strength of 20 men? Or twenty men?

Also you said you would show him stated to be class 2 in strength? You have failed to show this.

Cap has a strength feat of buckling a metal door and breaking out of cryogenic freeze. Cap's strength feats are better.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Steve feats are better then Slades and better in feats of strength. Jinzin even pointed this out a poster whom I've debated with. Even in your bio of your respect thread of Slade shows his wife mention "almost Superhuman" and in his DC bio that you also posted showed what they consider super his coordination and his stamina. Not his other stats. His instantaneous could be figurative as well as his fight with WW that you mention.


You think he's class 2 and yet you haven't really proved it as well. I have a statement that Cap's been given the powers of a God. That trumps 20 men. If you really want to prove Slade is truthfully stronger then show him throwing a car or something.

Otherwise Cap's feats look better overall.

no, I have about all Steve's strength feats sitting in my inbox right now.

get off it man, Slade is not "almost superhuman". he's a meta, plain and simple. I think I heard him referred to as that once in a pre-crisis who's who book. the other newer addition also states his reflexes as "instantaneous", that's not figurative. He said it himself too, it's in my thread. The newer one also says the strength that he already had was "quadrupled" by the serum. He was already a superb physical specimen in the army. That's certainly superhuman.

how could the statement from that fight with WW be figurative? how?

powers from god? how does that mean anything? WTF?

Slade Vs. Wally West?

Slade Vs. Hal Jordan/Aquaman?

Slade Vs. Teen Titans?

Slade Vs. Wonder Woman?


What I'm getting at is........No, Cap doesn't have better feats. He has no edge in physicalty as displayed in them either. Slade's speed feats definitely trump Cap's though.

The Captain America comparisons need to cease. Cap wouldn't beat Batman in that Fashion. Cap couldn't effortlessly embarass a top-notch fighter like Nightwing.....4 times at that.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Also I just checked your thread were does it say Slade has the strength of 20 men? Or twenty men?

Also you said you would show him stated to be class 2 in strength? You have failed to show this.

Cap has a strength feat of buckling a metal door and breaking out of cryogenic freeze. Cap's strength feats are better.


In the WW/Slade fight. check it again.

My respect thread's not nearly over.

Slade has kicked down a door of reinforced steel with ease. He's punched and rip through a wall. He's ripped open a locked car truck underwater. he doesn't have a lot going for him as far as strength feats, but he's stated higher and Cap still has no obvious edge feat-wise in that department