Complete control over Brain Functions...

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Juk3n
Your thoughts on why nature hasnt seen fit to bless us/curse us with it? And what life would be like if we had it?

Mindship
Originally posted by Juk3n
Your thoughts on why nature hasnt seen fit to bless us/curse us with it? And what life would be like if we had it?
I'm not sure what you mean by "Complete Control Over Brain Functions." You mean like, being able to consciously control one's heart or visual processing? Or are you implying something more, that CCOBF would yield, say, "psychic" abilities?

And if the brain is what "controls" everything else in the body, what is the nature of that which might control the brain? Are you implying the existence of a "soul"/self, something which can exist independent of the brain?

In any event, that "we have the control" we have suggests that more control wasn't evolutionary necessary to survive and breed, and less control would've been insufficient.

Juk3n
No psychic hocus and religious mumbo (soul and what not), i mean what it says on the tin really, complete control at will over any and all of the functions your brain is capable of handling. Practical means, like perfect memory, instant muscle memory, the ability to shut off pain, things like this. How far would this ability take humanity as a species, would it help or hinder us? With it would come the ability to set things like breathing to auto pilot as it is now. But the ability to get your own adreniline pumping, release your own endorphines (sp?) fast and at will. Switch off the emotions we dont want to be feeling at a particular time, the ability to never get nervous, never panic, stay awake unhindered for extended periods..

what would life be like if this was all within our power?

Mindship
Originally posted by Juk3n
No psychic hocus and religious mumbo (soul and what not), i mean what it says on the tin really, complete control at will over any and all of the functions your brain is capable of handling. Practical means, like perfect memory, instant muscle memory, the ability to shut off pain, things like this. How far would this ability take humanity as a species, would it help or hinder us? With it would come the ability to set things like breathing to auto pilot as it is now. But the ability to get your own adreniline pumping, release your own endorphines (sp?) fast and at will. Switch off the emotions we dont want to be feeling at a particular time, the ability to never get nervous, never panic, stay awake unhindered for extended periods..

what would life be like if this was all within our power? We'd be superheroes...or supervillians, depending on how we chose to use these abilities (of course, if we could all do it, you could nix the "super" part: it would simply be human affairs on a more intense level).

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Juk3n
stay awake unhindered for extended periods..

I suspect that you can't do that simply by having full control of your brain's functions, it would probably require extensive redesign.

Juk3n
you have control over your full emotional spectrum, which also means hormone and glands, you could adreniline yourself awake for a little longer, im not talking 3 days at full capacity here, i mean your body would still need recovery but the mind can be active all the time.

inimalist
control of what?

Like, the sense that you have any control over your body is a brain function. Are you talking about having like executive, top-down control over all systems?

put simply, thank God we don't have that....

inimalist
Originally posted by Juk3n
you have control over your full emotional spectrum, which also means hormone and glands, you could adreniline yourself awake for a little longer, im not talking 3 days at full capacity here, i mean your body would still need recovery but the mind can be active all the time.

the problem with this is that underlying the question is the idea that, somehow, our brain isn't working at an optimum level already, and that some sort of top-down organization might be able to change that and optimize it.

This is incorrect. The function of your brain, barring a complete reorganization/technology, is optimized for the tasks you are doing.

Juk3n
Originally posted by inimalist
the problem with this is that underlying the question is the idea that, somehow, our brain isn't working at an optimum level already? You think it is?
Id call a photographic memory optimal level. Wouldnt you?

Yeah, for the tasks humans do it is, but..wouldnt i be that little bit more efficient if i could turn my headache off with a thought? Thats what im talking about.
Example, Ive been sitting in this operating chair for 6 hours, by neck aches a little, its making me uncomfortable.

I know i'll get to go home in another 4 hours and am pretty sure no serious injury will come to me in that time. BAM, switched off the ache, yay for the complete control of my brain functions?

inimalist
you already can do that through shifting attention and focus training.

also, that is probably the most superficial thing you could do will "all control".

Juk3n
No amount of training will let you remember what it was like in your mothers womb. Having a perfect memory would, and thats what im talking about. Focus training will never give you a true photographic memory.

Although the ability is in your brain already to operate that way, the vast majority of humans brains just dont. What would the life be like of someone born with maximum control of everything the brain can manipulate? Is what i mean.

inimalist
barring some type of soul, I don't see how you think that could be possible

photographic memory, as far as it exists scientifically, isn't a huge advantage, and any memory people have of young agess are almost certainly generated from what they believe experiences at that age were like.

All things considered, memory wise at least, the brain has a limited capacity, and memory systems are already prioritized to remember that which is ecologically relevant and significant. Having all possible and completely mundane things remembered (and therefore processed by your sensory systems) would cripple your brain from doing what is much more relevant for it to do.

Brain systems all exist at optimized levels to do what they need. Sure, if we could have a brain with unlimited storage, inerrorous sensory integration, etc, sure, but being able to just manipulate the brain the way it is wouldn't give you these abilities.

It is also worth mentioning that such "savants" who can instantly memorize things almost always have other cognitive difficulties. The human brain, naturally, runs as optimally as possible.

Robtard
Originally posted by inimalist
The human brain, naturally, runs as optimally as possible.

Several years on this forum makes be believe it just isn't so, sir.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Robtard
Several years on this forum makes be believe it just isn't so, sir.

I take it that optimally meaning that it keeps you from dying one day to the next. You can be pretty stupid and still have an evolutionarily perfect brain.

Mindship
Originally posted by Juk3n
...the mind can be active all the time... Consciously active? That would not be a good thing.

StarCraft2
if we have complete brain control... it would be completely sux for us due to the fact that

---we must manually breath/digest/send pulse for a heartbeat/reflex action. (reflex is much faster than premeditated actions)

---we need autonomic nervous system so that we dont have to manually think about breathing, digesting, send pulse for a heartbeat.

complete control over our brain = loss of autonomic nervous system

omgchos
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I take it that optimally meaning that it keeps you from dying one day to the next. You can be pretty stupid and still have an evolutionarily perfect brain.
When did optimal become perfect? Ur probably one of those people who think we only use 10% of our brain. Optimal just means it does what its meant to do. On the subject of the forum...... We would need some type of alteration to both the size and anatomy of our brains for this to be possible. Having a photographic memory is usually accompanied by other mental issues. Such as an autistic savant.(or however its spelled). Not that every person with a photographic memory is autistic. Im just saying that without the aforementioned alterations it's a pipe dream. Tho it would be somewhat of a curse and an inconvenience to be able to shut things off. What if you accidentally shut off your blood flow for a second. I mean that would be alot of functions to have control over. It'd be like if u were sitting in front of a giant switchboard with on/off switches. Ur bound to make a mistake at some point. Like if you turned off pain for a while to work out, you could pull something or overexert urself. Causing an aneurysm or a clot.

ADarksideJedi
It would be useful but I think it falls in the wrong hands it could be bad.It is pretty much to me a bad and a good idea.

Deja~vu
I believe I heard a theory that schizophrenics might have accomplished this. LOL, but what if?

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by omgchos
When did optimal become perfect? Ur probably one of those people who think we only use 10% of our brain.

No I'm not.

Originally posted by omgchos
Optimal just means it does what its meant to do.

Yeah, you quoted me saying that.

Originally posted by omgchos
Having a photographic memory is usually accompanied by other mental issues. Such as an autistic savant.(or however its spelled). Not that every person with a photographic memory is autistic. Im just saying that without the aforementioned alterations it's a pipe dream.

People can already be trained to have extremely good recall, so I would say it's a total pipe dream.

inimalist
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
People can already be trained to have extremely good recall, so I would say it's a total pipe dream.

Though, normal people are going to fall on a continuum of recall ability that is normally distributed, people who seem to be "idiot savants" would be at least several standard deviations from the mean ability, out where there is almost no probability.

What I mean is that there is likely a dichotomy between memory ability that makes the type of skilled recall you are talking about of a different sort than the type of recall being discussed in the thread.

I'd have to agree (all be it, with a little hesetation) with omgchos that "rain man" type perceptual/memory/pattern - recognition "abilities" would almost certainly come with a decline in other areas. At the very least, such a memory system would alter the way this individual learns and develops at a neuronal level compared to others, simply because of how far from the norm they are in terms of memory ability. Its the same way someone who had an IQ of 200 would probably also test positive for some other "abnormal" cognitive abilities. (to point out, in some cases, like the man who can calculate calandar days from years and years ago, this would be hundreds, if not thousands of standard deviations from the mean. This would be like someone who had an IQ in the thousands or tens of thousands)

Mairuzu
Control your orgasms. There, i said it.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Mairuzu
Control your orgasms. There, i said it.

Anyone who could do that would die; happy, but dead.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by inimalist
Though, normal people are going to fall on a continuum of recall ability that is normally distributed, people who seem to be "idiot savants" would be at least several standard deviations from the mean ability, out where there is almost no probability.

What I mean is that there is likely a dichotomy between memory ability that makes the type of skilled recall you are talking about of a different sort than the type of recall being discussed in the thread.

I'd have to agree (all be it, with a little hesetation) with omgchos that "rain man" type perceptual/memory/pattern - recognition "abilities" would almost certainly come with a decline in other areas. At the very least, such a memory system would alter the way this individual learns and develops at a neuronal level compared to others, simply because of how far from the norm they are in terms of memory ability. Its the same way someone who had an IQ of 200 would probably also test positive for some other "abnormal" cognitive abilities. (to point out, in some cases, like the man who can calculate calandar days from years and years ago, this would be hundreds, if not thousands of standard deviations from the mean. This would be like someone who had an IQ in the thousands or tens of thousands)

You can have a better memory than you'll ever need without getting into "Rain Man" levels. Surely you could modify the brain to give you a better memory more easily than to give perfect recall.

Originally posted by Mairuzu
Control your orgasms. There, i said it.

Thus ending civilization entirely.

inimalist
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You can have a better memory than you'll ever need without getting into "Rain Man" levels. Surely you could modify the brain to give you a better memory more easily than to give perfect recall.

well, that is a matter of need

save carnival tricks, no, you probably never need more memory than even those who have poor memory, and with training, you might get better at certain types of memory, but there would be a plateau. Attention can be trained, but I'm sure it would still be a limit to how good your memory is in practice.

I don't think the gains you would see from that type of training, however, would come close to representing what is meant by "control all brain functions". Being able to remember 10 vs 7 "chunks" doesn't have a whole lot of practical use unless it is a skill you use often (meaning you are probably trained already), and while it might be a statistically significant difference, its not hugely impressive.

dadudemon
I think Juken means controlling the brain, neurologically. AKA, matrix type of stuff, except on a different more realistic level.

Indeed, you could compare it to a perfect illusionist' ability or something like that.




Sym.C. Came the closest, imo, to answering the question: it would require a radical redesign of the brain. Seriously. We'd have to be able to interface with every neuron and it synapses. controlling them, utterly. That's possible with highly advanced nanobots ... but I fail to see how the nanobots would have a dendrite "inhibition" mechanism. How would you prevent the neurons from making new connections/branches? How would you precisely control the dendrites/axons with the nanobots? What happens to "self" in such a controlled environment?

Originally posted by inimalist
photographic memory, as far as it exists scientifically, isn't a huge advantage, and any memory people have of young agess are almost certainly generated from what they believe experiences at that age were like.
Ditto.

While my brain is definitely not photographic, I have problems remembering things because I remember too much. Everything creates a mess and it can sometimes approach "maddening" levels, especially when I go into a "remember everything" mode...with disconnected memories not having logical "connections" to other memories...almost like random recollection by a seemingly irrelevant stimulus.

This pile of "swirling" memories causes me to forget, quite often, current and significant tasks.


The only time I have found this useful is for tests that require remembering lots of information. Other than that, it has been mostly difficult to live with and caused more hindrance, academically, in my early years, than it did to assist.


Originally posted by inimalist
Though, normal people are going to fall on a continuum of recall ability that is normally distributed, people who seem to be "idiot savants" would be at least several standard deviations from the mean ability, out where there is almost no probability.

What I mean is that there is likely a dichotomy between memory ability that makes the type of skilled recall you are talking about of a different sort than the type of recall being discussed in the thread.

I'd have to agree (all be it, with a little hesetation) with omgchos that "rain man" type perceptual/memory/pattern - recognition "abilities" would almost certainly come with a decline in other areas. At the very least, such a memory system would alter the way this individual learns and develops at a neuronal level compared to others, simply because of how far from the norm they are in terms of memory ability. Its the same way someone who had an IQ of 200 would probably also test positive for some other "abnormal" cognitive abilities. (to point out, in some cases, like the man who can calculate calandar days from years and years ago, this would be hundreds, if not thousands of standard deviations from the mean. This would be like someone who had an IQ in the thousands or tens of thousands)

Just saw this post. Spot on. Too far into one area and other areas of "cognative" measure are almost "doomed" to suffer. I put cognative in quotes because I am using that literally and metaphorically. Social problems are an area I wanted to include.

Zampanů
I'm at the point where being good at standardized testing is hella valuable.

Are you suggesting that this bubble of competence could burst?











I've often wondered if recreating a brain exactly--down to the cellular level--would result in an identical personality.

Symmetric Chaos

Mairuzu
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Thus ending civilization entirely. That's sad sad

Not every child is a byproduct of trying to obtain the "big-O"

Most, but not all.

leonheartmm
oxymoron. "control" itself is a brain function.

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