Deus Ex: Human Revolution

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Snoopbert
This is year-old (ish) news, but I never saw a thread so I figured I'd post it anyway.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/r/?page=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/news_story.php?id=98298

Frag Maniac
I liked Deus Ex, but Invisible War I've yet to finish after having shelved it months ago. In Deus Ex it was easy to keep track of your objectives and therefore decide which course to follow. Invisible War leaves you guessing what to do next, and you lose interest in the game because of it. I've heard many people say they had this problem with it too.

I certainly hope they learned from their mistakes in Invisible War, most people didn't like it as much as they'd anticipated they would.

Smasandian
True.

I played around 2-3 hours into it.
Very good.

But there was this part, which was pretty difficult, but because I had nothing in my inventory ( i used mostly it all up), I couldnt advance.
It was in a hanger with a plane, and you had to get to the plane without being decteted or something, and they'res guards, and cameras and robots. I couldnt do anything.
So I stopped playing. I might try to pick it up again, because I loved the first one.

NineCoronas
Originally posted by Smasandian
True.

I played around 2-3 hours into it.
Very good.

But there was this part, which was pretty difficult, but because I had nothing in my inventory ( i used mostly it all up), I couldnt advance.
It was in a hanger with a plane, and you had to get to the plane without being decteted or something, and they'res guards, and cameras and robots. I couldnt do anything.
So I stopped playing. I might try to pick it up again, because I loved the first one. Yeah, they're allied and basically you just... move on. Paul should be waiting for you.

Smasandian
I dont remember now.

I dont know if we'll see another Dues Ex. I'm not sure the second one sold well, and it left a bad impression with people.

Maybe 3-4 years or so.

Kazenji
Trailer

http://kotaku.com/5491590/deus-ex-human-revolution-trailer-reveals-little

§P0oONY
Deus Ex 3? NOOOO000000000oooooooo

(Unless it's like the 1st game)

Kazenji
Was the second game worth playing?

§P0oONY
No.

Andrew Ryan
I totally disagree. Deus Ex: Invisible War was an incredibly fun and memorable game which had an awesome storyline and balanced gameplay. I've seen a lot of unjust hatred and flat out "It's not the first game" nonsense, but I can't follow that mentality.

To start, I played DE: IV first so I didn't have any preconceived notions of how it "should" be nor did I unfairly compare it to a prequel which, in my opinion, is undeserving of most of its praise. While I like sequels to continue to bring the great experience I got from the first game, I don't expect them to be remastered versions of the same game nor do I think that they're inferior simply because they're different.

Super Mario Bros. was a revolutionary platform game which paved the way for more like it, similar to how the original Deus Ex was one of the first stealthy/open-ended and well-written first person shooters. But no one would ever say "SMB3 sucks because it's not just like the first one", and yet many level this same opinion at DE:IV!

I could easily turn this into a rant against the original game's many flaws (ridiculous skills/accuracy system, uninteresting story until far far late into the game, robot-like protagonist who was painful to listen to, stealth which amounted to being like Goldeneye but with air vents, etc.) but I'll bring this short by simply saying that Deus Ex: Invisible War is a great game by its own merit, and all this "Deus Ex 1 was better" nonsense is pure misplaced nostalgia.

The list of things DE 1 did better includes:

1. Being the original.
2. Being "Less console-centric".
3. You could type on keyboards to enter passwords.
4. The levels were bigger, even if they were mostly bland and uninteresting.
5. The story was better (No, it wasn't.)
6. Shared ammo sucks. (While it's hardly believable, it makes a player think before using certain weapons and doesn't break the game).
7. It was the first!

Etc. etc. ad infinitum. Anyways, I can't wait for the third edition to come out. It looks more like a prequel and the teaser movie looks incredible.

Juk3n
Loved the first, prolly the best game story ever and prolly the only game in history to make me want to find everyshred of dialogue i could. The philisophical questions the game posed and some of the conversations were so sophisticated the whole world just sucked me in. Liked the second one also though compared to the first, it felt a little dumbed down. Gameplay was a bit more clunky, a bit more console if you will.

Can't wait for the third one though, Deus Ex will always be one of my favourite franchises simply because i love cyberpunk and i love consp' theories.

§P0oONY
Originally posted by Andrew Ryan
I totally disagree. Deus Ex: Invisible War was an incredibly fun and memorable game which had an awesome storyline and balanced gameplay. I've seen a lot of unjust hatred and flat out "It's not the first game" nonsense, but I can't follow that mentality.

To start, I played DE: IV first so I didn't have any preconceived notions of how it "should" be nor did I unfairly compare it to a prequel which, in my opinion, is undeserving of most of its praise. While I like sequels to continue to bring the great experience I got from the first game, I don't expect them to be remastered versions of the same game nor do I think that they're inferior simply because they're different.

Super Mario Bros. was a revolutionary platform game which paved the way for more like it, similar to how the original Deus Ex was one of the first stealthy/open-ended and well-written first person shooters. But no one would ever say "SMB3 sucks because it's not just like the first one", and yet many level this same opinion at DE:IV!

I could easily turn this into a rant against the original game's many flaws (ridiculous skills/accuracy system, uninteresting story until far far late into the game, robot-like protagonist who was painful to listen to, stealth which amounted to being like Goldeneye but with air vents, etc.) but I'll bring this short by simply saying that Deus Ex: Invisible War is a great game by its own merit, and all this "Deus Ex 1 was better" nonsense is pure misplaced nostalgia.

The list of things DE 1 did better includes:

1. Being the original.
2. Being "Less console-centric".
3. You could type on keyboards to enter passwords.
4. The levels were bigger, even if they were mostly bland and uninteresting.
5. The story was better (No, it wasn't.)
6. Shared ammo sucks. (While it's hardly believable, it makes a player think before using certain weapons and doesn't break the game).
7. It was the first!

Etc. etc. ad infinitum. Anyways, I can't wait for the third edition to come out. It looks more like a prequel and the teaser movie looks incredible. I enjoyed the first greatly. I did not enjoy the sequal at all. I thought it was one of the worst follow games ever released. If you like it that is fine. I did not.

§P0oONY
The reason I did not like the sequal was because the reason I bought it was because I loved the original, obviously I was hoping for more of the same, the game fell short. It fell well bellow expectations, it was dulled down into just another FPS... I'm sure if it was a stand alone game with no connection I may have found it to be an average shooter, but it was not. It was a Deus Ex game, it's only natural to compare games within a series.

Andrew Ryan

Kazenji
Originally posted by Andrew Ryan
and its stronger attention to story than say, Doom or Wolfenstein. Otherwise,

I'm guessing your talking about the more recent versions of those games

the old Doom and Wolfenstien did have stories they just were'nt story driven like Half-Life, Bioshock and others.

Juk3n
Originally posted by Andrew Ryan


Average shooter? You've got to be kidding me. Did you even beat the game I wonder?

Entirely average , IW wishes it could have been as deep in story and philosophy as the first game, but it never could because..well..you can't have the same impact twice. Deus Ex made me think, IW didnt because all the interesting questions were asked in the previous game.

The first game stuck with me for years - i havnt playd it in 6 years , but i can quote the hell out of it - IW could not exist as far as Deus Exverse does, and this could be the next game a decade after the first and i would be overjoyd at a return. As it stands im skeptical because i persnally feel, they compromised alot by trying to cater to the console market with the sequal, dumbed down the game mechanic - made it average -.

§P0oONY
Originally posted by Andrew Ryan
I don't quite follow you here. You did not like the sequel because you wanted a clone of the first game, but with more content? While I can attempt to rationalize that kind of logic, I'll just skip to the point - the first game was clunky, mundane, and of Nintendo 64 quality in a lot of points. The only way it stood out compared to other FPS of the day is the optional stealth (i.e. use a vent method of completing the level), an incredibly pointless emphasis on "RPG-esque add points to use certain abilities" and its stronger attention to story than say, Doom or Wolfenstein. Otherwise, while it was impressive for its era it was an ancient dinosaur when the sequel came out and should have been put down humanely.

I definitely disagree that the sequel was "just another FPS". If you can name me another mundane FPS that features DE: IW's complex storyline including philosophical and political considerations, amazing character and shadow details which created a very vivid stealth-based setting, and had multiple ways to be played based on different methods of completing missions, dialogue, etc., please let me know. Otherwise, I'm tempted to just ignore this as nonsense.

Average shooter? You've got to be kidding me. Did you even beat the game I wonder? I'm starting to wonder if you ever actually played the original. I would respond but the person right above me has said it perfectly.

Andrew Ryan
Obviously the impact isn't the same; nothing can create the same kind of "wow" that a predecessor can. Oblivion was amazing, but Morrowind was more awe-inspiring because it pioneered the open-ended gameplay that was replicated in Oblivion. Bioshock 1 was scarier and more compelling because it introduces Rapture and all its bizarre history while Bioshock 2 - still a great game in its own right - can only add smaller facets to the setting.

I can see your point here in a sense. I certainly enjoy the first of the X-Men movies because it focuses less on raw action and more on setting a tone and for those who appreciate storytelling, realizing that tone is impacting simply put. But I would be lying if I said I rewatched the original one over and over and could never appreciate the others for the value they bring too.

For my part, I felt that the characters in IW were more interesting, the setting far darker, and the gameplay better balanced overall. Playing the first game outside of the 32 MB video card era is frustrating. The enemy AI is pathetic, the weapons are difficult to use because of arbitrary "points system" which determines accuracy outside of my control, and to be blunt - JC Denton is a boring protagonist. Most of the non-player controlled characters were forgettable outside of how they applied to the story.



Here it is again - more vague reasons why IW is inferior. Let me ask you plainly:

- How is IW "dumbed down"?

You mean the lack of ridiculous skill attributes which did nothing to enhance the story or replay value of the game? Biomods, the most unique part of the character customization, still existed and was easier to use as well.

You mean the lack of manually punching in passwords or reading email? That's hardly worth crying in your beer.

Is it the shared ammo? Honestly, while it sounds ridiculous in theory it works well in practice and keeps the player's mind off of "Gee, is that sniper ammo in my super huge backpack or pistol ammo?". Micromanaging inventory is a huge waste of time in many games which focus more heavily on story and character development (i.e. RPGs); so why should Deus Ex cling to that ridiculous concept?

- What is average about IW? So far, here's the unified stance:

1. IW is "average".
2. It's "dumbed down".
3. It's not as "impactful".
4. It's not the "original".

Nothing conclusive. Just nostalgia. The same kind of nostalgia that props up Goldeneye over Perfect Dark when the latter is leagues better in every single way.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but I still think it's flimsy justification.



I have, the Game of the Year edition. Spent some time with the multiplayer as well, although it was not the best time spent that summer. Was Deus Ex a bad game? No, not by a longshot. Do I feel it deserves the praise it gets? Not entirely. The sequel was a more solid game with regards to how it played and how fun it was. I still replay it at least once or twice a year, and while I have ready access to the original at any time I look past it to play other games.

Phanteros
Note: this is a prequel to the first.
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Gameplay:
In the Deus Ex games, augmentations are body modifications that allow the user superhuman abilities. While augmentations in the first two games were nanotech, Human Revolution is set prior to both and instead features mechanical augmentations. These will be divided into four types: Combat, Stealth, Technology and Social.

Every enemy squad will have an identifiable squad leader who will direct the team's actions. If the leader is killed, the squad falls into disarray. Enemies will also react to subtle player decisions, such as a change in behaviour or weapons, etc.

Unlike in Invisible War, weapons will fire distinct ammunition types instead of depleting a unified pool. They can also be upgraded to better suit the player.

In a controversial departure from previous titles in the series, Human Revolution will use a regenerating health model. This change was made because the developers didn't want players to get into a situation where they were unable to progress due to low health, and would be forced to "scrounge for med packs." They see this scrounging behavior as breaking the flow of the game when one retreats to search the entire level for medical supplies. They believe their regenerating health model will still encourage tactical and strategy forming retreats, but not to the extent where the tension and flow of the game is disrupted.

Human Revolution is primarily a first person game, but will feature a contextual third person viewpoint when using the cover system, certain augmentations, or closeup instant-kill moves.

Smasandian
I'm looking forward to this game. I loved the original and just replayed it. Showed it's age but fun nonetheless.

Played the second one and was less impressed but it was still fun.

Kazenji
Don't you use the search engine Phanteros??


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=382552&highlight=title%3A%28Deus+Ex%29+forumid%3A66

Phanteros
Originally posted by Kazenji
Don't you use the search engine Phanteros??


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=382552&highlight=title%3A%28Deus+Ex%29+forumid%3A66 I did use the search engine but I rather post a more updated one. But if I must, can I get a moderator to merge them?

BloodRain
Glad that this is a prequel as I'm looking forward to it but don't want to have to play the others.

Smasandian
Have you played the first two?

If so, then I can see why you wouldn't want to play them.

But if not, check them out, there pretty damn good. A bit dated but if you have a computer and Steam, you can pick them up for dirt cheap. Like 2 games for 5 bucks cheap.

Phanteros
lu4GaWVhMIg gameplay

and also asking for a merge

Phanteros
9hvu5_NwCfg

Stealth Moose
So... I'm guessing no one else was excited that the game is out and that it rules?

Arachnid1
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
So... I'm guessing no one else was excited that the game is out and that it rules? Now that you mention it, I am kind of suprised about the lack of posts this thread is getting. This game is pretty great from what I hear.

Digi
saw some great reviews. i just have other sh*t going on and there's stuff i want to play more in a couple months. I may come back to it eventually. Like, next spring.

Though, I played and enjoyed the first one, but didn't think it deserved all the praise it got. Overhyped, but still good.

Smasandian
I don't think Deus Ex was overhyped because a lot of people don't talk about it.

But it's worthy of the praise. It was groundbreaking and different than any FPS out there.

It had it's problems but it the good things the game did far outweighed the negatives.

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by Arachnid1
Now that you mention it, I am kind of suprised about the lack of posts this thread is getting. This game is pretty great from what I hear.

I have it for PC, and it's well worth the wait and the hype. I've just gotten to Shanghai.

The action is well done and the levels are atmospheric, perfect for stealth missions, and alive with NPCs. It takes everything the first two games do right and blends them together.

Kazenji
From the sounds of things for this sequel its best played on the consoles with the third person stealth parts.

Digi
Originally posted by Smasandian
I don't think Deus Ex was overhyped because a lot of people don't talk about it.

But it's worthy of the praise. It was groundbreaking and different than any FPS out there.

It had it's problems but it the good things the game did far outweighed the negatives.

The whole "choice" thing was overblown. They just gave you 2-3 tracks to follow instead of 1-2 like most games.

The plot was also way too X-Files conspiracy-nutter for me.

Good, yes. Groundbreaking? I'd take issue with that. Hell, iirc the same company was coming out with the Thief series around that same time. Far less high-tech, but arguably higher in terms of variety and opportunity for creativity.

Smasandian
Hmm, the "choice" thing was not overblown. In 2000, you didn't see a game where you can use stealth, or find a different route. As well, you can assault your objective. For 2000, this was groundbreaking. As well, you can find a PDA that can get into a vault, or you can blow it up, or you can hack it, or you can just not bother with it. Also, the amount of choice you can affect the narrative was not well known for FPS.

As for Thief, it was all about stealth. You couldn't do what you can do in Deus Ex.

Digi
Yes, Thief only had one "gimmick." But in terms of level design, it was much much an open sandbox with an objective, which allowed for greater variety. If you watched 50 players on the same level of Thief and the same level of Deus Ex, I guarantee you you'd see 5-10 variations in the Deus Ex objective-hunting and 20-30 in Thief. It just never seemed like a choice to me when there were three clear tracks to success with a tech, stealth, or guns approach. A linear track is a linear track. Adding another didn't make it noticably less linear. At best it made for an interesting 2nd or 3rd playthrough, but not true creativity in-game. For the most part, you picked what track you'd be primarily on (with some exceptions, granted) and that was your route through the game.

In terms of in-game consequences for actions, yes, it was new and cool. And the gameplay was engaging, so that was good. If the new one expands on all of those things, I'm sure it will be (and likely is) pretty awesome.

Smasandian
I think Deus Ex is similar to what you said about Thief. There's is countless ways of doings things.

I'm about 12 hours into the Deus Ex: HR. It's basically like the first but done much better. The original hasn't aged well (gunplay kind of sucks and it feels chunky) so this game makes up for all those.

Art design is great, story seems to be good as well but overall, it's Deus Ex people loved and done with a lot of polish.

Digi
Agree to disagree then. I think we're just talking about degrees, we both agree that the original was good.

This debate has me mildly more interested in this game though. I may buy it at some point.

Phanteros
Loving the game play so far, better than that crap Invisible War. I wish it had the boss battles the first had.

Smasandian
Originally posted by Digi
Agree to disagree then. I think we're just talking about degrees, we both agree that the original was good.

This debate has me mildly more interested in this game though. I may buy it at some point.

True.

If you liked the first, you'll like this one. Even though it's almost identical to how the first played (even the second), having better graphics, controls and it being more streamlined (exp points upgrades augs only) makes it a much better play.

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by Digi
The whole "choice" thing was overblown. They just gave you 2-3 tracks to follow instead of 1-2 like most games.

The plot was also way too X-Files conspiracy-nutter for me.

Good, yes. Groundbreaking? I'd take issue with that. Hell, iirc the same company was coming out with the Thief series around that same time. Far less high-tech, but arguably higher in terms of variety and opportunity for creativity.

I definitely agree with this. Not sure what it is about the first game which instills rabid loyalty and nostalgia glasses. The story isn't philosophically compelling like IW's was, or Bioshock. It was classic X-Files conspiracy. Even the most unique aspect of the story - human augmentation - is not even the main focus of the game. It's basically take down the Big Bad (Page) and make a Big Choice to resolve a Conspiracy.

Also, games like MGS and Splinter Cell, though not contemporaries, had much better implemented stealth gameplay than DX1. Not sure why people think "using the vent route" is stealth.



DX: IW was a good game. Considering how much of DX1's Rabid Fanbase cries out about its epic storytelling, they all seem to equally forget about IW's more complex and morally ambiguous storytelling. Unlike the first game, where there is clear good and bad, the second game allows the player to take the burden of making ethical decisions which aren't immediately clear. And this isn't "shoot guy or not" decisions; it extends to alliances, lethal/non-lethal gameplay styles, trusting in secondary characters and even digging into the numerous ebooks and NPC exchanges to be found throughout.

DX 1 = Super Soldier uses ventStealth or Firepower to overcome Bad Rebel Group who turns out to be Good Rebel Group and is backstabbed by Big Government Body who turns out to be Corrupted Evil Government Body who then has a Hidden Agenda which is Unravelled and Resolved by the Super Soldier.

DX IW = Super Soldier is involved in a Tragedy which makes him/her Question Everything and is presented with Various Offers from Big Government Body, Fanatical Church Group, Fundamentalist Church Group, and Post-Humanistic Rebel Group. Super Soldier uncovers evidence of Manipulation from all Parties and decides which are less sinister before rendering a Final Choice that Effects Everything.

Kazenji
Originally posted by Digi
.
the same company was coming out with the Thief series around that same time. .

It was'nt the same company.

Smasandian
In name it wasn't but Looking Glass Studios basically turned into Ion Storm Inc Austin, which made Deus Ex.

Digi
...probably what I was thinking of. There were a lot of similar design elements in both.

Smasandian
From my memory, Looking Glass Studios created Thief 1. Warren Spector was brought on as producer but didn't contribute much to the overall project. When the studio went under, Warren Spector created a development firm in Austin called Ion Storm Austin (which was the company that John Romero created after he left ID Software and failed at it as well) and developed Deus Ex.

He basically created the studio with the peeps from Looking Glass.

Phanteros
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RE: Blaxican
So I've got the game.

The combat system in itself feels really clunky and counter-intuitive, though that can certainly just be due to not being acclimated to it yet. It just feels like there's a whole shitton of things to do and not enough buttons. Only on the first level though.

Smasandian
I'm playing on the PC and it works great. I can see the combat system being clunky if you are a total action freak in the game but as a silent killer, it's pretty damn good.

But man, I haven't seen this long of a FPS in a while. I'm already at 26 hours and I don't know when the end is in sight.

It's pure Deus Ex but modernized. It's great. I like how they did not consolify the PC version.

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by Smasandian
I'm playing on the PC and it works great. I can see the combat system being clunky if you are a total action freak in the game but as a silent killer, it's pretty damn good.

But man, I haven't seen this long of a FPS in a while. I'm already at 26 hours and I don't know when the end is in sight.

It's pure Deus Ex but modernized. It's great. I like how they did not consolify the PC version.

Agreed here. The PC version does not feel like a horrible console port.

RE: Blaxican
I've gotten better at the game, and it really is a lot of fun. The shooting mechanics still feel clunky, but I'm pretty sure that has more to do with the fact that I'm just used to run n gun games, and this isn't really one.

Not to mention, despite this being my first play-through, I decided to start off on the highest difficulty. Not having too much trouble so far since I'm playing a sneaky/non murderous style of play.

Smasandian
Yeah, I had a hard time with the stealth in the manufacturing plant at the start of the game and then by the end of the game, I was a deadly assassin with my pistol and dart gun.

Finished it. Took around 29 hours including reading pretty much every email and hacking everything in site but I love this game. It's basically an updated version of Deus Ex and a very solid game. Stealth in this game is dead on and I didn't find shooting that bad. The augments are pretty much all killer as well. I enjoyed the hell out of it.

RE: Blaxican
I feel like I should be extremely offended by "Latisha". no expression

Smasandian
Huh?

After googling it, I know it's a character but whom?


EDIT: Found the video. Can't really comment. I do remember multiple black woman in the game who speak quite well.

KingD19
I'm black, and I think that was more of her being a dope fiend/crackhead who knew Jensen from his time as a SWAT officer when he used to get tips from her.

One of the head scientists on Megan's team was black, the lady at the hostage plant, etc....

Nephthys
So whats the canon ending to the last game? Where does this one start from?

KingD19
Revolution is a prequel, when Augmentation was new and was still mainly robotics. Spoiler alert!!! A hidden scene after the credits shows how the original Deus Ex starts, with the scientists getting results from nanotech, which is the main augmentation source in the first 2 games.

Nephthys
Sounds cool!

ares834
Is the old one still worth picking up?

Nephthys
The first game? Hell yes! I picked it up a few months ago and its badass! The graphics suck and the controls are pretty clunky but its still an amazing game.

Coincidentally, it was this weeks Zero Punctuation. Note the 'considered the greatest PC game of all time' part.

Also CONSPIRACIES!

Smasandian
If you wait for a Steam sale, you can probably pick the game up for 3 bucks or so.

I wouldn't be surprised if the original goes on sale in a few months.

I think it's worth it. I recently played it and still enjoyed it. As Nephthys said, the graphics are brutal and controls clunky but it has charm and I really enjoyed the story.

ares834
Hmmm... Sounds good. I'll probably buy it off Steam. Thanks both of you!

KingD19
Yeah, if you play Deus Ex 1 and 2, then play Revolutions, your minds gonna be like. BWAAAAHH??

Rage.Of.Olympus
This game was awesome. I didn't think I'd be into it after watching the trailer but man, after an hour of playing, I was completely hooked.

Boss battles felt kind off beat for lack of a better phrase, but with Typhoon it's not anything to really complain about. I hope theirs some sort of sequel.

Maybe the best game I've played this year.

socool8520
This game was alot of fun. The shooting mechanics were a little funky, but the no recoil aug made it much easier. I was very impressed with the different ways you could approach any given situation based on your skillset.

Arachnid1
Human Revolution is backwards compatible today. I went to amazon the second I saw that and bought it.

Smasandian
Yeah, great game. A bit sad that mankind divided is being delayed till Aug.

RadZoa
Fantastic game, can't wait for Mankind Divided

Arachnid1
This is next months Game with gold, and its backwards compatible. Make sure you guys get it whether you have a 360 or not, since you can play it on the one now.

Arachnid1
Hey, just wanted to remind you guys that this is the 360 games with gold. Don't forget to grab it before the end of the month!

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