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a hand 2 hand fight who would win

DaredEvil wins

Daredevil.

Though if you limited it to just a boxing ring it'd be really good and Ted'd have a chance.

Wildcat.

its an all out fight no rules no nothing

even split

daredevil is more agile and i see him as the more skilled one

dd

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Wildcat.

DD wins, quite easily.

Daredevil 6/10. Ted's badass, though.

Originally posted by marwash22
DD wins, quite easily.

stupid

Originally posted by grimify
my mom is stupid Awwww, don't say that; I'm sure she tries her best.

barker

Weak.

That's some piss poor post editing.

Daredevil wins.

eh, they can't all be winners. Original post still stands, DD stomps.

Ted is good, but Murdock should outlast him..

Murdock has a clear speed/agility advantage, barring some outlandishly impressive speed feats from Grant. I think overall though Ted is stronger and more durable. His damage soak is similar to punisher's. He's also got about 70 yrs of combat experience. His boxing expertise is such that he was able to defeat a room full of younger boxers who were basic carbon copies of himself, obtaining all his moves
through brain scanning. He has also mastered several other MA's

Wildcat isn't that popular, so apparently he has no chance. His durability is ridiculous, and he is EASILY top-tier as a martial artist. I'm sticking with 5/10 split.

DD.

DD wins. he has incorporated his superhuman senses into his fighting ability. he has honed that skill so well he has almost superhuman reaction times. ie. like anticipating an oponents movements from the persons elevated stress levels and heart beats.

captain ulala = dur

captain ulala = dur

captain ulala = dur

DD is definately faster. WC is definately stronger. And WC damage soak is greater than Punisher's. If u read, Birds of Prey, there is a issue, WC KOed Rat, 1 of the 12 Brothers of silk. And later, there were 2 more brothers who would fight WC off panel. This will when black canary takes on Rabbit. The fights would be interrupted. The brothers fighting WC would say they were winning but WC was still up and well. That says alot, BC said each Brother was close to shiva-level skill. Conner Hawke was said to struggle in his fight with one of the brothers.

DD is more skillful, but i think he would be more bruised than WC in this fight.

Why is WC definitely stronger?

Why does WC have better damage soak than Punisher?

U shld check out WC respect thread. WC has KOed Killer Croc in a straight fight. Has the reputation having the strongest punch for a Human, Armed wrestled Atom Smasher and GL kyle and was not defeated. Slammed Grundy to KO him. Stopped Hawkman's hand with a knife mid-air.

Compare to Punisher WC fight opponent way stronger than him

Originally posted by joesha28
U shld check out WC respect thread. WC has KOed Killer Croc in a straight fight.
Been there seen it, not that impressed.


You do realize beating croc is not much of a feat right?



Originally posted by joesha28
Has the reputation having the strongest punch for a Human,
Good for him, that does not make him stronger then punisher. the strongest punch on record is done by 17o pound ufc fighter. Punching power does not equate to strength level.


Originally posted by joesha28
Armed wrestled Atom Smasher and GL kyle and was not defeated.
what?

Originally posted by joesha28
Slammed Grundy to KO him.

which is absurd.........and just proves that beat grundy is not much of a feat since batman has beat him into submission before amoung other retardedly low feats.

Originally posted by joesha28
Compare to Punisher WC fight opponent way stronger than him
That does not make WC stronger or have greater damage soak. Your arguements are pretty shallow at best.

Also Punisher fights people who are vastly stronger then WC. So your entire point is moot.

Originally posted by joesha28
And WC damage soak is greater than Punisher's.
Prove it. I would love for you to prove this. Because your wrong.

DD wins, quite easily.

battlemage and dum dum dugan are both very marvel bias.

wildcat wins

DD wins at least 7/10

Murdock wins. Good fight generally.

DD wins this.

it is a good fight, but yeah, dd wins.

I'd actually side with Ted here, but only just. Damage soak > Punisher is probably dubious just because he hasn't appeared in as many comics in recent years, but WC's damage soak is definitely disproportionate to the rest of his power level. I think he'd outlast Matt but would be a bloody pulp by the end.

hmm, i'd say kingpin's damage soak is as great or equal to ted's and dd has pummeled the crap out of fisk a couple times......

close, i agree, but dd can take a lot of punishment as well, and dish out a hell of a lot when he's po'd.

The "Tale of Two Kingpins" when talking about his portrayal in different eras complicates that rebuttal leo, but I'm not dead set on giving Ted the majority. It was just my initial reaction. I'll admit to not having followed Matt as closely as JSA (though I'm also not entirely ignorant of Matt's solo book).

Originally posted by Digi
The "Tale of Two Kingpins" when talking about his portrayal in different eras complicates that rebuttal leo, but I'm not dead set on giving Ted the majority. It was just my initial reaction. I'll admit to not having followed Matt as closely as JSA (though I'm also not entirely ignorant of Matt's solo book).

yeah maybe a bit. but in pretty well any incarnation, fisk is a tough bugger and at his least his damage soak is still very good. i guess i see a lot of people talking about ted's damage soak. dd can take a hell of a beating and keep on fighting as well. not that you said otherwise.

Kingpin has "I can take a dozen bullets to the chest and then fall off the golden gate bridge and be fine" damage soak. Punisher has "I can eat a point blank grenade and be fine; and I can be punched hundreds of feat into the air, fall to the ground, and then get hit by a spreading car, and be fine" damage soak. I'd say they are both comfortably above Ted, he needed his extra lives to survive shit like that.

Daredevil should win pretty easily. His radar sense is too much of an advantage.

@srank/leo - Fair enough. As stated, I'm not making a stand here, just positing an opinion. I do think Ted's being downplayed a little bit, and we're talking about tough fights either way, but I won't refute your conclusions. Ted's practically Thing level in the elusive "heart" department (which I realize is basically a forum joke, but stay with me). A decisive skill edge would do him in, which Matt may very well have, but I tend to see him coming out on top in any fight he can turn into a brawl against a foe not clearly stronger or more durable than him.

Originally posted by Digi
@srank/leo - Fair enough. As stated, I'm not making a stand here, just positing an opinion. I do think Ted's being downplayed a little bit, and we're talking about tough fights either way, but I won't refute your conclusions. Ted's practically Thing level in the elusive "heart" department (which I realize is basically a forum joke, but stay with me). A decisive skill edge would do him in, which Matt may very well have, but I tend to see him coming out on top in any fight he can turn into a brawl against a foe not clearly stronger or more durable than him.

Matt's radar sense has trumped legitimate precog in the past.

This should play out similar to DD vs Punisher. Ted puts up a great fight and hangs with DD until Matt gets fed up and starts breaking bones and leaves Ted unable to stand or support his own weight.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Matt's radar sense has trumped legitimate precog in the past.

This should play out similar to DD vs Punisher. Ted puts up a great fight and hangs with DD until Matt gets fed up and starts breaking bones and leaves Ted unable to stand or support his own weight.

You are not considering how fights usually go from two very skilled beings though. When a character attacks he/she almost always leaves themself open to be attacked. All it takes is a good counter to exploit an attack. DD isn't a lot faster than Ted and Ted will be able to block, dodge, parry some of DD's attacks and possibly counter them with some devastating attacks of his own. This is a good fight make no mistake. DD might win the majority but it isn't easy as you think.

DD is faster than WC w/o his radar sense. I think he'll pick WC apart.

Originally posted by h1a8
You are not considering how fights usually go from two very skilled beings though. When a character attacks he/she almost always leaves themself open to be attacked. All it takes is a good counter to exploit an attack. DD isn't a lot faster than Ted and Ted will be able to block, dodge, parry some of DD's attacks and possibly counter them with some devastating attacks of his own. This is a good fight make no mistake. DD might win the majority but it isn't easy as you think.

I considered all of that, it's the only reason this isn't a laughable thread. Daredevil has move reading ability that puts Batgirl to shame (he also IS a lot faster FYI) and a sizable skill advantage, the only thing that stops this from being a spite thread is that Ted has the Rocky factor and doesn't give a **** about getting hit... and infact has built his fighting style around having an iron chin. Basically he is Punisher, and we all know how Punisher vs Daredevil ultimately plays out. The moment Matt gets serious he starts picking TEd apart from the outside, systematically shutting down Ted's appendages with pressure points and breaking bones. Ted's only chance of winning is lucky punch.

Originally posted by Mindset
DD is faster than WC w/o his radar sense. I think he'll pick WC apart.

Of course he is faster. But not fast enough where it impossible for WC to block, dodge, or parry one of his attacks. Everyone agrees DD will win. I just disagree with stuff like 10/10 or 9/10. Ted can get at least 2 wins due to counterattacking chances.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I considered all of that, it's the only reason this isn't a laughable thread. Daredevil has move reading ability that puts Batgirl to shame (he also IS a lot faster FYI) and a sizable skill advantage, the only thing that stops this from being a spite thread is that Ted has the Rocky factor and doesn't give a **** about getting hit... and infact has built his fighting style around having an iron chin. Basically he is Punisher, and we all know how Punisher vs Daredevil ultimately plays out. The moment Matt gets serious he starts picking TEd apart from the outside, systematically shutting down Ted's appendages with pressure points and breaking bones. Ted's only chance of winning is lucky punch.

Character's fight in character though. That means DD is not going to sit there and let Ted do all the attacking while he does all the counter attacking. That means DD will initialize attacks of his own, causing him to be open for attack and allow Ted counterattacking chances. Ted can at least win a couple here just for luck sakes.

What happens if DD counters Wildcat's counterattacks?

Matt doesn't need to stand back and wait for counters. With his speed, skill and radar sense he is fast enough to get inside the pocket, slip and rip, and then angle out before he eats too many counters. Daredevil also has much better eight point striking and just an overall more diverse tool box when it comes to stand up, jits and ground game. This is Matt's fight, he is too fast, too skilled and his radar sense gives him and insurmountable edge. The only way Ted stands a chance is in a pure boxing match with 20 ounce gloves, where many of Matt's are effectively neutralized... and that could still go Matt's way.

If these two fight ten times then Daredevil will win at least nine. Ted's only chance is to land a lucky haymaker and put Matt to sleep early before DD starts chaining pressure points.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Matt doesn't need to stand back and wait for counters. With his speed, skill and radar sense he is fast enough to get inside the pocket, slip and rip, and then angle out before he eats too many counters. Daredevil also has much better eight point striking and just an overall more diverse tool box when it comes to stand up, jits and ground game. This is Matt's fight, he is too fast, too skilled and his radar sense gives him and insurmountable edge. The only way Ted stands a chance is in a pure boxing match with 20 ounce gloves, where many of Matt's are effectively neutralized... and that could still go Matt's way.

If these two fight ten times then Daredevil will win at least nine. Ted's only chance is to land a lucky haymaker and put Matt to sleep early before DD starts chaining pressure points.

Matt isn't a perfect fighter and you are underestimating WC's skill and ability. WC has great defense and is a good counter attacker. Also, DD gets hit sometimes when fighting others in comics. We can't have a discussion if you think WC can't get any hits in or at least counter some of DD's attacks.

WC could counter with a devastating blow and afterwards chain up a combo of his own to gain the upper hand. This can occur in at least 2 out of 10 fights.

Although I view 7/10 for DD I would go as far and say that DD wins 8/10 is more than fair for him I think.