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Since the MFG forums were deleted--due to the lack of activity--and with its deletion it took with it my previous Bastard!! review thread I decided to make a new one. This decision was further enhanced by the quote bellow--which may or may not have been edited for the purpose of relevance.

Originally posted by NemeBro
No one cares about your opinion Astner.

The review will go over (what is supposed to be) the story, characters, artwork and general details. We'll start by examining the cover followed by the facets previously mentioned.

The aspect of the cover which will strike you first is the softcore hentai picture covering most of the cover and in the original Japanese version the picture is extended and not censored. A common reaction to this is "If anyone sees me reading this openly they'll think of me as a creep that reads hentai in public."

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/2219/bcov.jpg

If it wasn't for the "parential advisory explicit content" tag covering Porno Diane's ass--provided by Viz translation--I wouldn't be allowed to post this.

The next thing you'll come across is the Legend of Zelda-styled title which has to be the most ridiculous and uninspired title ever published. "Bastard!!"--You wouldn't mind adding a few extra explanation marks and perhaps a few ones? Not only that, but the title sounds like it's more fitted for hentai than anything else.

The explanation for the excessive nudity and discrete hentai references is that the author, Kazushi Hagiwara, originally was a hentai artist. While there's nothing wrong with hentai (although I personally prefer real women) there's a time and place for everything. Torn clothes and a visible nipple here or there would induce a sense of realism, but having fifty babyfaced nude E-cupped harlots running around because they have nothing better to do is not good writing.

Under the title you have the segements "Heavy Metal" and "Dark Fantasy" which pretty much says everything there is about the details of the story. It's set in a crappy fantasy environment and everything is named after either heavy metal bands or songs and it's so horrible and redundant that you can't possibly hope to keep a straight face while reading it. The protagonist calls upon the power of Guns and Roses to end his foes.

At the back cover you'll find some poorly written plot exposition which ilk you'd come across in poorly written fan fiction.

This is only the beginning of the horror this collection of godforsaken tomes will bring about.

Story

The castle of Metallica--I hope you realize how absurd that sounded--is attacked by a wave of enemies sent by the generic evil group known as the "Four lords of havoc" who plans to free a god of death because they've been influenced by its evil seed. After the deaths of hundreds if not thousands of brave soldiers the underaged priestess is convinced to break the seal of the wizard who will save them by kissing a slightly younger boy. At first you might think that this is solely for comic relief (you know Japanese people and their odd humor) but that's actually how much the soldiers are worth. They're nothing but fodder and an army has never accomplished anything. Eventually Dark Schneider turns each and everyone of the evildoers into his friends--the emo who commits suicide is even revived--but then the evil god is released and the manga pages look as if they've been dipped in ink and the barably understanable pictures loses what little value they have. The evil god is defeated with ancient technology and the story ends--but the manga continues. The "great" plottiwst turns out to be that this is set in the future 2,000 - 3,000 years after the birth of Jesus Christ and 6,000 - 7,000 years after the creation of the universe and that all was only a part of "bigger" scheme to trigger the war between heaven and hell.

All and all it's a poorly designed D&D adventure with obvious distractions to keep you from noticing the hollowness of the story.

Characters

There are two types of characters in Bastard!!. The main character, and the ones who're there to make the main character "look" good.

Early in the manga it's noted that in his 400 years Dark Schneider has slept with 200 - 300 women which is suppose to come across to the majority of virgin readers as impressive--even though most porn stars and hardcore players beat this record in less than one year.

Then we have the fact that Dark Schneider constantly breaks the forth wall by reminding the readers that he's the main character. Each time he engages in battle. In other words, rather than pretending to be a good work of fiction it's insulting the intelligence of the readers by outright saying it.

Then there's the gay factor of Dark Schneider flaunting his censored penis in the face of the readers.

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/876/failmp.jpg

Typical turn-on for Bastard!! fans. Some even go as far as calling Dark Schneider "Darsh", which only his lover (Ashes Ney) is allowed to call him by.

Other than that there's nothing to the characters at all, no persona or likable quality. It's all a dick-meassuring contest "Haha! My spell is bigger than yours idiot" and the bigger spell they have the better character they should be.

Art

Despite the horrendous artwork some people--with no understanding of art--actually claims they like the manga with its out-of-body proportions.

Lets examine one of the "better" pictures.

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/5888/namnlszo.jpg

As can be seen the character, Gara, in this scene seems to have been drawed by a elementary school student. But fans will point out the background and act as if mr. Hagiwara actually drew that rather than googled a picture of a tiger, used photoshop's monochrome effect on it and put his character over it to cover the fact that he can't draw.

However most of the art is crap with no sense of proportion like this one.

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/9492/ordz.jpg

And at times you even find gems like this to remind you that this investment is money well spent.

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9766/badod.jpg

General details

Despite the lack of details in the artwork, the lack of originallity in names, characters and plot there is more.

Scientific errors. I have no problems with small scientifical misconceptions in fiction, after all it's fiction. Bastard!! however on multiple occasions want to seem smart by explaining certain scientific phenomena. The problem with this however is that the explanations are wrong and at times the explanation given is the direct opposite of what would happen.

Take Kal Su's superconduction ability, where he freezes himself down to the critical temprature of human flesh so that he can withstand Dark Schneider's Hallowen--a electrical attack capable of killing millions, even though it's output is 10 MeV (which wouldn't be enough to raise the temperature of a cube inch of water with a billionth of a degree (C or F, you decide). Either way Kal decides to tank this massive electrical assult by becomming a "living" superconductor. Problem would this is that a superconductor have no resistance and would force all of the current through his body with shredding his molecules ultimatelly causing even more damage (the reason why carbon superconductors don't seem as effected is for the same reason ordinary carbon isn't affected).

This is of course only one (well technically 2) of countless errors in the manga.

To summarize in five words. "Bastard!! isn't worth your time."

tl;dr

Can you show us some of your artwork, since you say elementary school students can draw that?

Also lol at taking a gag scene and using it to judge art. You suck.

tl;dr

You suck at reviewing manga.

lol so much fail in this review.



hahaha wut?

I sure as hell would like to see you try that, even more so in the early 90s. It's obvious you know jack shit about Photoshop.

Originally posted by Astner To summarize in five words. "Bastard!! isn't worth your time."

You'll want to rephrase that to "Bastard isn't worth my time."

Attempting to judge the value of something in the eyes of another is both illogical and idiotic. I could waste my time explaining the negatives of Naruto, for example, in a lengthy review, but I do not care enough about it to do so. Clearly Bastard!!! has left enough of an impression on you, judging by this loquacious passage.

It's one thing if you do not like it personally, but do not treat your opinion as if it were fact. You only succeed in making a fool of yourself when you do.

Originally posted by NemeBro
No one cares about your opinion Astner.

The fact that you seem to care about something as trivial as SCOIENTOFICUL ERRERS makes it look like you're some form of idiot savant

Astner once again proving that he has no idea what fiction is.

Not worth your time if you're autistic perhaps. Everyone else enjoys it.

Originally posted by Cubey
Can you show us some of your artwork, since you say elementary school students can draw that?
Normally I wouldn't have old pictures from elementary school laying around. But considering that I'm in my grandparents house at the moment--due to a upcomming funeral--I acually came across a picture I drew in first year of highschool.

Tagged picture--Mikael Astner Nv1b (nature science 1 b)

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/1097/dscn2486b.th.jpg

A close up.

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/9438/dscn2488a.th.jpg

Originally posted by Cubey
Also lol at taking a gag scene and using it to judge art. You suck.
If there weren't so many "gag scenes" I wouldn't have brought it up. Besides a reviewer is suppose to bring up every aspect of the manga.

Originally posted by Narcissus
You'll want to rephrase that to "Bastard isn't worth my time."
Fine, Bastard!! might be worth your time.

Originally posted by Narcissus
Attempting to judge the value of something in the eyes of another is both illogical and idiotic.
Is that why there are professional reviewers?

Originally posted by Narcissus
I could waste my time explaining the negatives of Naruto, for example, in a lengthy review, but I do not care enough about it to do so. Clearly Bastard!!! has left enough of an impression on you, judging by this loquacious passage.
This thread wasn't meant to be taken seriously. Yet it appears that it attracted a handful of you people I intended to avoid.

Originally posted by Narcissus
It's one thing if you do not like it personally, but do not treat your opinion as if it were fact. You only succeed in making a fool of yourself when you do.
I make a fool of myself when I make a programming mistake in Java, Mathematica or MATLAB in front of professors and friends not when I criticize a series for its shortcommings in front of its fans.

Originally posted by Astner Fine, Bastard!! might be worth your time.

I used the quotations to emphasize that you needed need to change your original statement to the one I presented. You do not get to sit there and dictate what is and isn't worth another person's time.




You are not a professional, and many people tend to disagree with professionals.



No one in this thread cares about you or your opinion, which you are entitled to. It is your conceited manner in treating your opinion as fact that draws issue.

But trust me, we are happy you wish to avoid us, as we have no desire for you to be in our presence. And you should be grateful that we have even bothered to respond to your rambling.

Pretty long-winded response for something that's not suppose to be serious though.



Criticism is not what makes you appear foolish. It is your treatment of your opinion as fact that makes you look like a fool. As I said earlier, you are entitled to your opinion, but don't expect everyone else to simple agree with it, and acknowledge that it is not fact.

Originally posted by Narcissus
I used the quotations to emphasize that you needed need to change your original statement to the one I presented. You do not get to sit there and dictate what is and isn't worth another person's time.
It wasn't a order nor did I attempt to lay down the law prohibiting people from reading the manga, it was my evaluation. Furthermore if you find fault with the review. go on that, rather than the five-worded summary.

Originally posted by Narcissus
You are not a professional
No, I'm not a professional reviewer nor did I come out as one. However, I've spent my money on this product and should be able to review and criticize it as I please.

Originally posted by Narcissus
and many people tend to disagree with professionals.
But your point was that the work and efforts of reviewers was unnecessary, not only that you outright insulted their profession as being "stupid".

Originally posted by Narcissus
No one in this thread cares about you or your opinion, which you are entitled to. It is your conceited manner in treating your opinion as fact that draws issue.
Yes I'm entitiled to my opinion but I'm also entitled to sharing that opinion. Reviews however aren't written in personal format, what you're thinking of is a opinion post which is only something that could be adressed to the summary of the review and not the review itself.

Originally posted by Narcissus
But trust me, we are happy you wish to avoid us, as we have no desire for you to be in our presence. And you should be grateful that we have even bothered to respond to your rambling.
I honestly wish you didn't. However, the first part seem contradictory to your actions. Why would four people bother to register and respond when there were three already registered who had provided responses, hypocrisy perhaps?

Originally posted by Narcissus
Pretty long-winded response for something that's not suppose to be serious though.
I had fun with it, though I ate and took a walk outside in the middle of writing it. It's not something I sat with in hours on end.

Originally posted by Narcissus
Criticism is not what makes you appear foolish. It is your treatment of your opinion as fact that makes you look like a fool. As I said earlier, you are entitled to your opinion, but don't expect everyone else to simple agree with it, and acknowledge that it is not fact.
What isn't fact? Are the scans posted from another manga? No that's not it. Is the plot summary inaccurate? No--you might not think it makes it justice--but it is accurate. Are the character reviews faulty? Not at all.

It's not as much a matter of taste as bad artwork and poor writing. Just as a painting by Da Vinci or a novel by Shakespeare will remain to be masterpieces, regardless of your opinion.

Originally posted by Astner
It wasn't a order nor did I attempt to lay down the law prohibiting people from reading the manga, it was my evaluation. Furthermore if you find fault with the review. go on that, rather than the five-worded summary.

If your review actually mattered to anyone, I might take the extra time to break it down and have a more in-depth argument with you. As it stands, I have no interest in doing so, even though there are some facets of said review that I find to be asinine.

And while it was not an order, you were still asserting your opinion



As I said, you have the right to express your opinion, so long as you do not lord it about as if it is a fact, which certainly seems to be your intent here.



No, I was referring to you in specific. And as I said, even being of the professional level does not mean others will always agree with you.




I don't blame you for not wanting to see us again, for obvious reasons. But there is no contradiction. Do you really think those who created accounts to respond to you will be following you around across the internet? They came just to express their disagreement with your reasoning, and that was all.

Just because they dislike you and have no desire for you to be in their presence, it doesn't mean they can't show the disagreement with something you say or do.




No, but it's clearly something you took a decent amount of time and effort to write. But I can understand the "fun" part of criticizing something you dislike. Just don't pretend the manga didn't have a significant impact on you (negative or otherwise) when the review obviously says otherwise.



I have not read the manga, so I can not speak on the quality of the writing or the characters. But that wasn't the issue I personally brought up with your review (excluding what I said I found silly earlier). It was the fact that you behaved as though you were right and anyone who disagrees with your opinion would be in the wrong.

Narcissus, how is the ODB?

Since I am out of high school now and I am a worthless waste of space I was considering going back.

Forgot why I stopped.

Astner still posts?

More alarmingly, people still read them?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Narcissus, how is the ODB?

Since I am out of high school now and I am a worthless waste of space I was considering going back.

Forgot why I stopped.

Who are you on NF?

The OBD is still a pretty good place. Not as great as a lot of the best people aren't around as much or any more at all, but still one of the better forums.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Astner still posts?

More alarmingly, people still read them?

For the laughs more than anything.

Originally posted by Narcissus
Who are you on NF?

The OBD is still a pretty good place. Not as great as a lot of the best people aren't around as much or any more at all, but still one of the better forums. I was that insolent white boy, Dark-Jaxx/God-Eneru.

Originally posted by Narcissus
If your review actually mattered to anyone, I might take the extra time to break it down and have a more in-depth argument with you. As it stands, I have no interest in doing so, even though there are some facets of said review that I find to be asinine.
Judging by the prolonged response you've provided thus far and the fact that four member registered just so they could respond is evidence enough to dismiss this accusation.

The reason for why you can't go into a more "in-depth argument" isn't because you don't care. It's because you haven't read the manga. You said it yourself, in this very post.

I read and I quote:

Originally posted by Narcissus
I have not read the manga

In other words your defending a position out of bias. It's not that you dissagree with the review, it's that you dissagree with me and my right to exercise my free speach. I don't know if it's an unsettled dispute you couldn't drop but I see no point in entertaining your pitiful sharade. Leave this thread to people who have read the manga.

Originally posted by Narcissus
And while it was not an order, you were still asserting your opinion
Once again, it's a review not an opinion post. I didn't write "the art isn't to my taste" I wrote (paraphrasing) "the art is horrible and here is why" and provided pictures compelling people to make their own opinions of the art.

Originally posted by Narcissus
No, I was referring to you in specific. And as I said, even being of the professional level does not mean others will always agree with you.
You was addressing the work, not me in person, more importantly you didn't address my work in specific but the general process of reviewing.

I read and I quote:

Originally posted by Narcissus
Attempting to judge the value of something in the eyes of another is both illogical and idiotic.

If anything that's a selfish statement of ignorance, considering that it's a important facet of the media industry.

Originally posted by Narcissus
I don't blame you for not wanting to see us again, for obvious reasons. But there is no contradiction. Do you really think those who created accounts to respond to you will be following you around across the internet? They came just to express their disagreement with your reasoning, and that was all.
Another contradiction (though readily pointed out) if the review didn't matter to them they wouldn't respond, yet alone register and I wouldn't call it "disagreement with my reasoning" but rather trolling. You need to know what you're dissagreeing with to have a credible opinion. Two of the three first comments contained the segment tl;dr--too long didn't read--nullifying their credability.

Originally posted by Narcissus
Just because they dislike you and have no desire for you to be in their presence, it doesn't mean they can't show the disagreement with something you say or do.
Of course. But I expect them to understand or at the very least read what I "say and do".

Originally posted by Narcissus
No, but it's clearly something you took a decent amount of time and effort to write. But I can understand the "fun" part of criticizing something you dislike. Just don't pretend the manga didn't have a significant impact on you (negative or otherwise) when the review obviously says otherwise.
Well it's not as much as much the manga as the fans praise and exalt this piece of garbage to others. Let me rephrase that, it's an interaction between the two, the manga is extremely overrated based off its lack and void of quality.

Originally posted by Narcissus
It was the fact that you behaved as though you were right and anyone who disagrees with your opinion would be in the wrong.
What you're addressing is the typical format of a review, what you're writing is nonsense.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Since I am out of high school now and I am a worthless waste of space I was considering going back.
You'll fit right in.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Astner still posts?

More alarmingly, people still read them?
Who are you?

Originally posted by Narcissus
The OBD is still a pretty good place. Not as great as a lot of the best people aren't around as much or any more at all, but still one of the better forums.
Unintentionally referring to when I left.

Originally posted by Narcissus
For the laughs more than anything.
Just like the thread was intended for. Another success then I take it?

Originally posted by NemeBro
I was that insolent white boy, Dark-Jaxx/God-Eneru.

Oh hey, Dark-Jaxx! I remember you. I was wondering what had happened to you. Yeah, you should come back. There is quite a bit of drama you've missed out on since you left.

Originally posted by Astner
Judging by the prolonged response you've provided thus far and the fact that four member registered just so they could respond is evidence enough to dismiss this accusation.

I'm merely entertaining myself, and the others haven't even been back.



Not exactly. There were aspects of you method of reviewing that I took issue with, and not the review itself. As I said, you are entitled to your opinion, but people can disagree with an opinion based upon said opinion's foundations.



Appeal to motive fallacy: a pattern of argument which consists in challenging a thesis by calling into question the motives of its proposer.

By saying I am biased, you are guilty of this fallacy.

And I never pretended to have read it. Besides, it was your methods that I disagreed with.



You posted reasoning for why you believe the artwork to be poor. Others my find themselves liking it. While better than saying "The art is terrible" it is still an opinion.



If you really need everything spoon fed to you, then sure. When I wrote that statement, I had you in mind. But if you can not utilize something as simple as common sense, then I'll try to be more specific for you in the future.




They heard about your review, came and expressed their opinions in one form or another, and then left. That's is all. They found it more entertaining than anything. But no one took your review seriously. That is what I;ve been getting at.



And some did. And those who did clearly disagreed with you and did not take your review seriously.



Prehaps. Prehaps not. As I said, I am not one to judge the actual work itself, and you are not the first person to give it a negative review. One of my friends on NF also disliked the manga, but he at least aknowledged in his own review that it was his personal opinion that the manga wasn't good, rather than going on a rant about how he was right and no one else should bother reading the manga.

Like I said, I have been talking about the review you gave, and not the manga.



Because, as I previously stated, go more in-depth would get neither of us anywhere. And no it isn't




Oh yes. If there was the slightest possibility that we do miss something about you, Astner, it was the numerous opportunities to destroy you. But even that was growing stale.




After seeing you ridiculed by a forum regular here, meaning that you have been mocked in at least 3 different places I've seen now (not to mention you're awful spelling and grammar)? Yes. You deserve some applause.

Originally posted by Narcissus
Not exactly. There were aspects of you method of reviewing that I took issue with, and not the review itself.
And with "aspects" you are of course referring to the five worded summary.

Originally posted by Narcissus
Appeal to motive fallacy: a pattern of argument which consists in challenging a thesis by calling into question the motives of its proposer.

By saying I am biased, you are guilty of this fallacy.
Wrong. In case you didn't understand the fundamental error in your accusation I underlined it. What I did was question your reason, I wasn't using it as a argument and therein lies the problem. I'm fully able to question your motives. It's first when I use them as a argument for why you would be wrong I'm committing a logical fallacy. That's the nature of logical fallacies; to substitute arguments with a unrelated response.

Originally posted by Narcissus
And I never pretended to have read it. Besides, it was your methods that I disagreed with.
And I'm allowing you to hold that opinion, after all that all it is an opinion. Case closed.

Originally posted by Narcissus
You posted reasoning for why you believe the artwork to be poor. Others my find themselves liking it. While better than saying "The art is terrible" it is still an opinion.
A universal opinion. There is no such thing as absolute fact when it comes to art. You might consider Stephenie Meyers to be the the most talanted and skillful writer of all time, but that isn't necessarily the general consensus. I further brought up pictures compelling people to make their own opinions rather than blindly following my like you imply.

Originally posted by Narcissus
If you really need everything spoon fed to you, then sure. When I wrote that statement, I had you in mind. But if you can not utilize something as simple as common sense, then I'll try to be more specific for you in the future.
I'm sorry for thinking that you meant what you actually wrote and thank you; you do in fact need to improve on your writing.

Originally posted by Narcissus
They heard about your review, came and expressed their opinions in one form or another, and then left. That's is all. They found it more entertaining than anything. But no one took your review seriously. That is what I;ve been getting at.
To quote my first response:

Originally posted by Astner
This thread wasn't meant to be taken seriously.

Originally posted by Narcissus
And some did. And those who did clearly disagreed with you and did not take your review seriously.
Of course not, they didn't read it.

Originally posted by Narcissus
Oh yes. If there was the slightest possibility that we do miss something about you, Astner, it was the numerous opportunities to destroy you. But even that was growing stale.
Destroying me, yes. Personally I don't consider posting a response I didn't find the need to acknowledge to be equivallent to destroy. If I recall correctly I even blocked you because your misused of logical fallacies lack of understanding for reason.

Destroying would be something closer to what I accomplished in Red's thread which where he attempted to make a simple calculation made a number of errors which I pointed out. After a number of fallacies and insults he finally acknowledge me of being correct and posts my calulation in his first post.

Originally posted by Narcissus
After seeing you ridiculed by a forum regular here, meaning that you have been mocked in at least 3 different places I've seen now (not to mention you're awful spelling and grammar)? Yes. You deserve some applause.
Being disliked isn't the same as being mocked. Then again, I don't cherish my reputation as well as you on boards dedicated to fiction. Also, I currently don't have spellcheck on and don't proofread my replies before posting them--I don't think you're worth that kind of attention--and it's generally considered rare to write a A4 without any grammatical or spelling errors, so there you have it.

Greatest thread ever.

Originally posted by Astner I make a fool of myself when I make a programming mistake in Java, Mathematica or MATLAB in front of professors and friends not when I criticize a series for its shortcommings in front of its fans.

Because there's absolutely nothing foolish about claiming someone used photoshop before it even existed, right?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Because there's absolutely nothing foolish about claiming someone used photoshop before it even existed, right?
Photoshop was first released februari 1990, and there existed photo-editing software long before that. The graphically altered pictures didn't come before the 10th volume or so which was originally published a long after Photoshop was released considering that Hagiwara have relased 26 volumes in 22 years, that's about a volume per year.

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/5888/namnlszo.th.jpg

It takes no genius to see that the tiger in the background wasn't drawn in the same style as Gara or even with the same equipment. If the author could draw those backgrounds he wouldn't fail so badly in terms of proportions in the foreground. Even as late as in volume 16 he's unable to draw legs proportionally correct.

If you're telling me that Mr. Hagiwara didn't have access to Photoshop in 1997 when his backgrounds started to look as if they were taken by photo then prove it. We know that the later volumes of Bastard!! were graphically altered.

Astner,

Thank you very much for posting your review. I found it insightful and mildly humorous. I have NOOOOOO idea why the **** people got their panties in a wad over such a little thing, man.






Like I said in the other thread we argued for pages in: you're not that bad, you just need to not be so condescending and learn how to take criticism.

However, I found NO fault in your opening post, for your own thread. Do all of you REALLY like that manga this much? It looks absolutely horrible.


Please, someone convince me of why I should read and/or buy this manga? Astner seems to be spot on, after having read most of the posts in here.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Astner,

Thank you very much for posting your review. I found it insightful and mildly humorous.
Thank you.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I have NOOOOOO idea why the **** people got their panties in a wad over such a little thing, man.
Especially considering the fact that the one who decided to make most fuss even openly admitted to not have read the manga.

Originally posted by Narcissus
I have not read the manga

Originally posted by dadudemon
Like I said in the other thread we argued for pages in: you're not that bad, you just need to not be so condescending and learn how to take criticism.
Going by the amount of trolling in the opening page, I'd say that I've taken the criticism pretty well.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Please, someone convince me of why I should read and/or buy this manga? Astner seems to be spot on, after having read most of the posts in here.
Personally I think my opening post covered the manga pretty well. The only remaining path is to glance through the Bastard!! fan translation on the Internet (unless you want to commit my mistake and spend money on it) although I doubt you'll get through the first volume.

Considering he rereleased the early volumes specifically so he could add computer - enhanced art, you're full of crap.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Considering he rereleased the early volumes specifically so he could add computer - enhanced art, you're full of crap.
If you can provide great artwork by Hagiwara prior to his use of graphic-alterating programs then I concede. But judging by the poor character design (even in later volumes) I'm inclined to believe othewise.

To be honest I do not understand why everyone else is apparently so angry.

I personally love Bastard!! (What I have been able to read of it anyway), and do not really care if Astner didn't like it.

Originally posted by Astner
If you can provide great artwork by Hagiwara prior to his use of graphic-alterating programs then I concede. But judging by the poor character design (even in later volumes) I'm inclined to believe othewise.

Define "great artwork". You seem to think Kishimoto is a good artist, so obviously your taste is ****ed up.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Define "great artwork".
Artwork with proper proportions, shadowing and nifty details. Artwork that the majority would consider to be above average for an artist. If you're insecure, choose one of the earlier pictures you think is impressive, prove that the picture in question was published in the early 90s and there you go.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
You seem to think Kishimoto is a good artist, so obviously your taste is ****ed up.
Obviously there's a difference. Kishimoto publishes more pages in a week than Hagiwara publishes in a month, to have the same expectations would be unfair. Even so, the more detailed drawings published on occasions by Kishimoto surpasses everything I've seen in Bastard!!. More importantly Kishimoto's art is more clear-cut and not covered in shadows making it a lot easier to read.

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/9949/1011v.th.jpg

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/497/05/

Compared to

http://i26.tinypic.com/71r2xi.jpg

Are you kidding me?

Hagi can obviously never draw with such mastery as this:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/306/14/

Originally posted by Endless Mike
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/497/05/

Compared to

http://i26.tinypic.com/71r2xi.jpg

Are you kidding me?
Notice how nothing in the upper panel of the second picture is drawn in inc, but is rather computer generated. Since Bastard!! is a prime example of covering poor artwork with flashy CGI lets examine the following panels.

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/3307/85953882.jpg

In the second panel you can clearly see the poorly drawn characters, whereas in the left panel you're able to see the application of CGI.

Now compare the foreground, the characters, to characters from Naruto on a related note the background in Naruto seem to have been drawn by hand.

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/9024/namnlsst.jpg

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Hagi can obviously never draw with such mastery as this:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/306/14/


Of course he can't, the picture is in two shades, black and white. There are no computer shadowing that could cover up for the mistakes he'd make.

That doesn't look like any CGI I've ever seen. It looks hand drawn. Are you assuming just because it's supposed to be a computer diagram it's CGI?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
That doesn't look like any CGI I've ever seen.
I wouldn't take your poor judgement as a serious argument, that was your inition right?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
It looks hand drawn.
Especially the transparent C-shaped icon. Enough with the sarcasm, you have to close your eyes not to notice.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Are you assuming just because it's supposed to be a computer diagram it's CGI?
No. It seems as you're assuming it isn't because the scan contain less black pigment than the original page, is that right?

Because it's completely impossible for human hands to draw something that appears transparent, amirite?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Because it's completely impossible for human hands to draw something that appears transparent, amirite?
Be reasonable, there isn't one pencil stroke in that panel. Manga inc comes in one color, black.

Now there are screen-toners, that some manga artists use. In which you apply pressure to the back of screen-toner to leave a print on the page.

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/2883/brackswordimg600x450125.th.jpg

Though it's not really artistic to use as background, it might have been used in some of the earlier volumes.

But his actual artwork is terrible.

I disagree, as well, Astner.

Multiple shades of black can be used.

Also, that diagram does NOT look computer generated. The drawing is rather simple and I, with my sh*t drawing skills, could easily draw that.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I disagree, as well, Astner.

Multiple shades of black can be used.
Not with manga inc. Screen-toners or CGI are used for shades. Save for few exception--the one I specifically recall is the manga Blade of the Immortal which was drawn by pencil.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Also, that diagram does NOT look computer generated. The drawing is rather simple and I, with my sh*t drawing skills, could easily draw that.
I didn't say it was good. Just that it was computer generated based off that it wasn't drawn with manga inc.

Originally posted by Astner
Not with manga inc. Screen-toners or CGI are used for shades. Save for few exception--the one I specifically recall is the manga Blade of the Immortal which was drawn by pencil.

I'm not sure what your point is.

My point was:

"I disagree, as well, Astner.

Multiple shades of black can be used."

Here's my reasoning: multiple shades of black have been used for ages, in manga. Well before computers.


Originally posted by Astner
I didn't say it was good. Just that it was computer generated based off that it wasn't drawn with manga inc.

And I didn't say it was good (or bad), either. I was just saying that it could easily be drawn by hand.

Look at me validate my existence I think Bastard!! sucks oh god why won't anybody talk to me I'm alive I'm a human being I can draw better than Hagiwara I swear look at my drawings don't they look cool someone please compliment my drawings like my grandmother used to do the last person who showed me any sort of appreciation granny why did you die why did you leave me alone in that cold ruthless world Bastard!! sucks it sucks oh please someone deliver me from this nightmare

Originally posted by Aldric
Look at me validate my existence I think Bastard!! sucks oh god why won't anybody talk to me I'm alive I'm a human being
If you sincerely believed your own premise then why would you be positing in the thread? More specifically why would your only post in this forum be in this thread?

Originally posted by Aldric
I can draw better than Hagiwara I swear look at my drawings don't they look cool someone please compliment my drawings like my grandmother used to do the last person who showed me any sort of appreciation granny why did you die why did you leave me alone in that cold ruthless world
For attempting to troll you're displaying a severe level of incompetence. First and foremost neither of my grandparents are deceased. Secondly, inhumane cold-hearted responses are seldom made by responsible adults, you're ony making yourself out to be a social outcast not worth while. Then again, your age may match your rebellious-teenager mentality.

As for the drawings themselves, they were provided on request. It's not something I initially thought to bring up, regardless to say. It satisfied the request. But I'm flattered that you find them credible enough to attempt to discredit them.

Originally posted by Aldric
Bastard!! sucks it sucks oh please someone deliver me from this nightmare
It's a poorly written story that could only hope to entertain those with a very short attention span.

Sure was a lot of junior members on the first page.

I call samefag.

Originally posted by Akainu
Sure was a lot of junior members on the first page.

I call samefag.
Sadly I suspect that they're different people. Not that it would matter to this thread.

Originally posted by Astner
If you sincerely believed your own premise then why would you be positing in the thread? More specifically why would your only post in this forum be in this thread?

I got linked to this masterpiece in another forum



Please be more of a whiny melodramatic diva "inhumane and cold hearted" lol get a hold of this guy

And you really have no room to talk about trolling, what's with you trying the "I like real life girls Bastard!! readers are virgins and gay" angle in your abortion of a first post

All that while flaunting some math formula in your sig and complaining about scientifical mistakes like an aspergers ridden clod




Seriously I thought the "I can draw better than that respected professional artist" shit only flew with Deviantart's prepubescent Shadow the Hedgehog fans talking about One Piece but apparently not

Oh and for your information, Hagiwara started using CG art in 2002, which is the year volume 23 was released, and where the difference with his previous hand drawn art is obvious to anyone not completely retarded

You couldn't even recognize screentones if they kicked you in the dick and you think you're entitled to give your opinion about Hagiwara's art

Originally posted by Aldric
I got linked to this masterpiece in another forum
You didn't answer the question. If this, as you claim, was nothing more than a cry for attention then why would you feel obligated to respond? It's not as if the thread was active before you chose to humor me with your feelings regarding it.

Originally posted by Aldric
Please be more of a whiny melodramatic diva "inhumane and cold hearted" lol get a hold of this guy
I pity you for being under the impression of that ridiculing people through their past away relatives is somehow part of the social norm.

Originally posted by Aldric
And you really have no room to talk about trolling
I'm simply pointing out the obvious. How wouldn't a post void of any--to the thread--significant content, loaded with ad hominem attacks in various shapes and forms not be considered trolling?

Originally posted by Aldric
what's with you trying the "I like real life girls Bastard!! readers are virgins and gay" angle in your abortion of a first post
The excessive use of promiscuous buxom women doubtlessly caters to a asocial hormone driven audience. Also your spell check-program interpreted your attempt to write "abomination" as "abortion".

Originally posted by Aldric
All that while flaunting some math formula in your sig and complaining about scientifical mistakes like an aspergers ridden clod
It's not the scientific errors I have a problem with, it's the fact that they're purposely written to add nonexistent depth through faulty reasoning and conclusions. Furthermore I don't see how pointing out mistakes with references and explanations would be interpreted as a autistic trait in any school of psychology.

Originally posted by Aldric
Seriously I thought the "I can draw better than that respected professional artist" shit only flew with Deviantart's prepubescent Shadow the Hedgehog fans talking about One Piece but apparently not
The human body is generally considered the blue-print if artistic talent, the abominable proportions in Hagiwara's art should be evident to everyone. I have every right to criticize his lack of talent in a review regarding his work.

Originally posted by Aldric
Oh and for your information, Hagiwara started using CG art in 2002, which is the year volume 23 was released, and where the difference with his previous hand drawn art is obvious to anyone not completely retarded
Whether it's screen-toners or CGI is in essence irrelevant considering that it isn't drawn by hand. You could grab any person off the street, give him a screen-toner and tell him to turn it face down against a sheet of paper, it still wouldn't make that person an artist. Manga is drawn with black inc, and as far as Hagiwara's lines are concerned, they're not that impressive.

Originally posted by Aldric
You couldn't even recognize screentones if they kicked you in the dick and you think you're entitled to give your opinion about Hagiwara's art
Indulge me. I'm not an artist, and as of now there have been no protests of how my art from when I was a young teen would fall short before Hagiwara's. Judging by the overall criticism of this thread that's more than evidence enough that as a kid I was artistically more talented than Hagiwara.

But I digress. I'm now going to slaughter four-dimension tensor equations, so in eight or so hours when my head will feel like a burnt circuit I can come back and by your post remind myself of why I should keep on studying.

Originally posted by Astner
You didn't answer the question. If this, as you claim, was nothing more than a cry for attention then why would you feel obligated to respond? It's not as if the thread was active before you chose to humor me with your feelings regarding it.

I happen to be a humanist

This is how you thank me for providing you with the attention you so desperately crave?

You ungrateful knave




Wah wah wah this joke is mildly offensive my vagina's leaking



I'm only replying in the same tone as your OP



You have a Bleach avatar and you're trying to take the moral highground about "excessive use of buxom women"

Haha what the hell

And I don't want to hear about the "social norm" from you, what the **** are you a mormon



It's the focus on these mistakes from your part that's bordering on autism, I mean who gives a shit seriously

THIS GOOFY FANTASY COMIC GOT ITS SCIENCE WRONG??? GRRRR UNFORGIVoh a bag of skittles time to rearrange them by color




You think Kishimoto's a good artist while he butchered his characters anatomy and proportions dozens of times

Get the **** out of here



The use of screentones is a huge part of a mangaka's job, how ****ing clueless are you





What the hell are you even on about, your art blows

Although I find it highly amusing how you blabber about Bastard!!'s homoeroticism only to show off the picture of some muscular dude in a speedo with a collar around his neck as an example of your teen years artwork

Someone seems to have unresolved issues



Yeah you do that, that's fascinating

Originally posted by Aldric
I happen to be a humanist
A humanist attempting to mock others through their deceased relatives? I think you're confused.

Originally posted by Aldric
This is how you thank me for providing you with the attention you so desperately crave?

You ungrateful knave
Attention? Least of all yours? No.

It's painfully obvious why you responded to the thread, and the most satisfying aspect is that rather than targeting the central points in the thread you resort to ad hominem attacks.

Originally posted by Aldric
Wah wah wah this joke is mildly offensive my vagina's leaking
I'm glad that we're able to establish the mentality of your approach.

Originally posted by Aldric
I'm only replying in the same tone as your OP
Then why would it offend you?

Originally posted by Aldric
You have a Bleach avatar and you're trying to take the moral highground about "excessive use of buxom women"
First and foremost the series that the character in my avatar originates from isn't related to this argument. Secondly, you misread the post, "The excessive use of promiscuous buxom women".

Originally posted by Aldric
It's the focus on these mistakes from your part that's bordering on autism, I mean who gives a shit seriously
You supposedly, for taking your time to reach said conclusion. But in the end I'd be more inclined to believe that it was a poor fabrication to inflict emotional damage.

Originally posted by Aldric
THIS GOOFY FANTASY COMIC GOT ITS SCIENCE WRONG??? GRRRR UNFORGIVoh a bag of skittles time to rearrange them by color
I'll recite myself: "It's not the scientific errors I have a problem with, it's the fact that they're purposely written to add nonexistent depth through faulty reasoning and conclusions."

Originally posted by Aldric
You think Kishimoto's a good artist while he butchered his characters anatomy and proportions dozens of times

Get the **** out of here
I don't think Kishimoto is a good artist in general, but compared to the likes of Hagiwara he is. Unlike Hagiwara, Kishimoto publishes chapters at a rather fast pace, yet he still he manages to retain a certain level of proportional consistency in his artwork.

Originally posted by Aldric
The use of screentones is a huge part of a mangaka's job, how ****ing clueless are you
Are you fully aware of what you're actually quoting?

Originally posted by Aldric
What the hell are you even on about, your art blows
Your monotonous blabbering follows a rather simplistic pattern, that's why it's easy so predict. Note the embolden keywords in the recited sentence: "I'm not an artist, and as of now there have been no protests of how my art from when I was a young teen would fall short before Hagiwara's."

Originally posted by Aldric
Although I find it highly amusing how you blabber about Bastard!!'s homoeroticism only to show off the picture of some muscular dude in a speedo with a collar around his neck as an example of your teen years artwork

Someone seems to have unresolved issues
The male and female body, often nude, is a reoccurring archetype in the field of art and I'm secure enough in my sexuality to draw it.

Originally posted by mike89un
It simply is not the stereotypical series with the stereotypical hero.
"Simply not" you make it sound as if the complexity of Dark Schneider somehow exceeds the complexity, of say Aladdin from Walt Disney's movie under the same name.

That's not the truth. Aladdin is well-made character who the viewer can relate to. He's a flawed character, tormented by the secrets he holds, a thief pretending to be a prince.

Whereas Dark Schneider is suppose to be this flawless character who compares himself to everyone else, making them look bad.

Originally posted by mike89un
But I do not see the point of creating this kind topic, other than intolerance, some kind of hate toward the series, an attitude where you want to prove at all coast that you are right and the series that you like are better, because you think so, while you as well talk bad about those who read Bastard!!.
I express my thoughts on a series. The process is called reviewing and it's a common process you'll doubtlessly will run into again.

Originally posted by mike89un
I have seen lot of narutohaters who say lot of crap and some absurd comments about the series. I am not a fan of the series, but I disagree about the way how they talk about the series. Indeed they tend to act really biased and with a very immature attitude.
I'm not against Bastard!!, but rather the undeserved praise it receives. I can't see why anyone would respect the manga when it's evident that the author doesn't respect it or its readers.

Originally posted by mike89un
Therefore in some way I can see your point of creating this thread. You like your stuff and others do not show respect. And when you do the same, they do not like it.

But man seriously in the end it is not better at all what you are doing.

So it would be better to not open again this kind of topics.
I'm not sure what you're trying to convey, you'll need to sharpen up on your English, but you were the one who revived the thread.

By further prolonging it you're only making it more recognizable by most search engines, including google.

Originally posted by mike89un
On other hand talking about the artwork


This is one of the first covers that Hagiwara drew when he had no budget and resources

http://img88.imageshack.us/i/capturadepantalla201012ig.png/

So seriously are you going to tell me that he is not a good artist? Hell I have seen many mangas and in my opinion that cover has far better art than what most mangakas draw now these days
And again that was when he had no budget nor resources.
Yes, that artwork is poorly conceived. The only reason you find it impressive is due to the shadowing, which requires time rather than skill. Not to mention that the shadowing is rather poor as well.

The majority of manga artist do draw better, but most of them wouldn't cloud their art with shadowing so it may not have the same effect.

Originally posted by mike89un
Now lets take a look to some of his current works

http://img153.imageshack.us/i/capturadepantalla201012y.png/
That's not his artwork. That's two famous pictures taken from the moon integrated and ridden of color through photoshop or a similar program.

Notice how the sliver of the earth is as depicted by our maps and not the Basatrd!! world map.

If you look carefully over the character (that was put in by the author) you can see the inconsistency in the black. Proving that more than one resolution was used.

Originally posted by mike89un
http://img190.imageshack.us/i/capturadepantalla201012gi.png/
Aside from the stolen and edited images there's nothing impressive in that scan.

Originally posted by mike89un
When I was 12 my mother hated with such passion my manga series.

But one time when I showed her these pics. Even she liked a lot the artworks.
The untrained mind is easily impressed. There's no pencil drawn art that would be considered artistic.

Originally posted by mike89un
So how about not downplaying other series, just because you do not like them?
I like most series I've read, most authors have the ability to produce entertaining stories with characters with a realistic feel to them and present it with art, that pre-rendered would look acceptable.

Thanks to your recommendation, Astner, I was not going to read this manga. However, your arguments against it have got me interested, now. I want to see what is so horrible about this out of morbid curiosity. (Kind of like watching a Uwe Boll film.)

Astner, if you would, I would like a detailed review of Claymore with a main focus of comparing an contrasting it with "Bastard!". IMO, nothing drives your points home more than a comparison to another manga (as you pointed out, it's very silly to compare manga to timeless masterpieces of art.)

Full disclosure: I'm of the opinion the Claymore is a decent manga. Not the best, but definitely not the worst.

Originally posted by Aldric

All that while flaunting some math formula in your sig and complaining about scientifical mistakes like an aspergers ridden clod


Since when is Asperger's syndrome a bad thing? We are human just like everyone else and this sort of prejudice is immature.

This is also being said by a Bastard!! fan.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Thanks to your recommendation, Astner, I was not going to read this manga. However, your arguments against it have got me interested, now. I want to see what is so horrible about this out of morbid curiosity.
Oh well, but don't come back to me weeping after you've scooped your eye-balls out of your skull with a spoon in share horror.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Astner, if you would, I would like a detailed review of Claymore with a main focus of comparing an contrasting it with "Bastard!". IMO, nothing drives your points home more than a comparison to another manga (as you pointed out, it's very silly to compare manga to timeless masterpieces of art.)
I've only read a chapter of Claymore, though I did enjoy the anime the manga seemed stale. I might pick it up, I have a few projects going already ranging from maths, physics to writing, drawing and reading. We'll see once I get the time.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Full disclosure: I'm of the opinion the Claymore is a decent manga. Not the best, but definitely not the worst.
It probably is a decent manga.

Originally posted by Esomark
Since when is Asperger's syndrome a bad thing? We are human just like everyone else and this sort of prejudice is immature.

This is also being said by a Bastard!! fan. crylaugh

Originally posted by Esomark
Since when is Asperger's syndrome a bad thing? We are human just like everyone else and this sort of prejudice is immature.

This is also being said by a Bastard!! fan.
I've not been diagnosed with Asperger's or any other mental deficiencies. It's just Abigail trying to get revenge on me for criticizing his favored work of fiction by throwing some e-psychology my way.

It's the same when he said that he was glad that one of my close family members had passed away, based of the vague indication of that I was attending a family funeral which in fact was of my grand-grandmother, which I've only met once it my life and not a family member I had any notable affection for.

Originally posted by Astner
Oh well, but don't come back to me weeping after you've scooped your eye-balls out of your skull with a spoon in share horror.


I've only read a chapter of Claymore, though I did enjoy the anime the manga seemed stale. I might pick it up, I have a few projects going already ranging from maths, physics to writing, drawing and reading. We'll see once I get the time.


It probably is a decent manga.

I have been known to abandon crappy manga so I do not think I will read it if it does not interest me enough. It's popular, so there has to be something about it that attracts people.

And, yes, I understand the busy schedule. After I complete my Cyber Security and Digital Forensics degrees, I will work on a phd in Cyber Security (I'm only 4 years away from completion! Time flies!) Then, I was thinking about finishing my general physics B.S. (or refocusing on that to professional physics) I think that getting a forth in applied math would be prudent for cryptography. So, I will be busy for the next 2 decades of my life. I pass the time at work and during class on KMC, video games, and manga.

Honestly, I think you should create a thread and call it "Asnter's Manga Reviews Thread" and just write reviews on manga that you've read. I really like you thorough approach to reviews.

Originally posted by Esomark
Since when is Asperger's syndrome a bad thing? We are human just like everyone else and this sort of prejudice is immature.

This is also being said by a Bastard!! fan.

You must have very mild Asperger's because you do not seem like you have it, at all.

But, yeah, that comment was meant to be hurtful and is technically a ban-able offense.

Originally posted by Astner
"Simply not" you make it sound as if the complexity of Dark Schneider somehow exceeds the complexity, of say Aladdin from Walt Disney's movie under the same name.

That's not the truth. Aladdin is well-made character who the viewer can relate to. He's a flawed character, tormented by the secrets he holds, a thief pretending to be a prince.

Whereas Dark Schneider is suppose to be this flawless character who compares himself to everyone else, making them look bad.

Not at all. It simply is a different idea. Never meant to say it is superior.


You do not get the part where Dark Schneider is intentionally meant to be the antithesis of character such as Aladdin and many other cliche protagonist. The author is intentionally laughing about characters such as Aladdin. That is the main idea about Bastard!!

i.e. The typical villain would give in the middle of the battle "an endless speech about how he planned everything and how evil he is".
The typical hero would pay attention to said speech and wait till the enemy ends so he can start attacking.

Dark Schneider would instead say "ok shut up already and die" while he kills the enemy

Another example:
There are many heroes that when they use their final attack or something like that they start some kind of ritual with lot of fancy and flashy stuff and when they are going to use their attack they say something like "Bow down before the almighty power of my beam the golden rainbow of eternal victory".

Dark Schneider would just -pow- hit the enemy and not waist his time with some speech.


A good of example of this is when the seraphins are fighting against Konron.

Each seraphin represents the stereotypical super hero. And each seraphin attacks Konron with a boring and fancy attack.
But Darsh instead of saying something such as "Angelical cosmic magnum" he just hits Koron on a non-stereotypical fashion.

Yet another example:
Uriel during the hell arc has no choice but chop the head of his little sister Amrael. Amrael was everything for him due to several reasons I am lazy to explain. So he could not handle doing that to his own sister and became a fallen Angel.

The rage of Uriel became wield and unstoppable.

This was Dark Schneider's answer to Uriel's trauma:
h t t p: / /w w w.manga eden.c o m/En/Bast ard/122/8/

The typical hero would see the best way to stop and help his enemy. But D.S. does the exact opposite and he always says what readers are thinking





And? Really and?

That is the idea. You know I have seen people who hate fictional characters because it makes them remember of someone who they know IRL and how they were humiliated by said person. Obviously I want to think it is not your case.


But again he was meant to be like that, after all he is the black Adam the one who is destined to help Satan to defeat the army of God. Hell even Demon Kings find Dark Schneider disgusting. And he used to be even more evil than now. Apparently meeting Yoko who incidentally is the reincarnation of Lilith and being sealed inside of Luce who actually was revealed to be Lucifer purified his soul. It is still a mastery, but it is speculated that all this was planned by Lucifer who wants to use the Black Adam (the secret weapon of Satan) against Satan and the demon God. It is clear that this was not an accident, though it is still hard to tell. There are two theories.

1) It is possible that Lucifer and Satan are different beings. Where Lucifer would be the good guy while Satan the evil one. Satan works for a higher entity known as the Demon God. And Lucifer following the plan of God is trying to use Dark Schneider as the key element in this war against Satan.

2) Somehow the most likely thing is that Lucifer and Satan are the same person. And with this is as well plausible that God and the Demon God are actually the same being. Which make us think that maybe the idea or philosophy of Hagiwara is that "Light needs Darkness to exist, while Darkness as well Needs light in order to exist". Which could be the way of the author to explain why God does not stop himself such evil that exist in our world.

This might not be so inaccurate considering that Beelzebub and Satan stated something like that. " Love and hatred are the same thing and they need each other".

So probably Lucifer realized about this, separated from Satan (think Kami-sama and King piccolo from Dragonball) and is trying to stop God/demon God from destroying our universe.

In one of the flashbacks of Uriel, Satanel revealed to Uriel that God from the universes he has created is planning to create a new universe. Which leads me to think that it is meant to be a universe with no humans. Who knows? And things are now opened to more possibilities because apparently Luce is as well the white Adam.

It might be even possible that Luce, Lucifer, Satan and Dark Schneider are all the same entity. He is still a character with an enigmatic origin



So you might find more interesting Aladdin a thief who is in denial and wants to be a Prince.

But I like more the the villainous guy who mocks about everyone else, does not care about anything, has the attitude to do and get what he wants.


I express my thoughts on a series. The process is called reviewing and it's a common process you'll doubtlessly will run into again.

Yes son express thoughts is good. But express your thoughts= talk bad about others



Typical turn-on for Bastard!! fans. Some even go as far as calling Dark Schneider "Darsh", which only his lover (Ashes Ney) is allowed to call him by.

So how about not ignoring the fact that you insulted those who read bastard!! by basically stating that those who read Bastard!! like to see penis huh? If people call him Darsh it is because it is much faster to type Darsh than Dark Schneider. Same reason why you type D.S. But some people forgets what does D.S. or those who are not familiar with the series would know what D.S. means


If it wasn't for the "parential advisory explicit content" tag covering Porno Diane's ass--provided by Viz translation--I wouldn't be allowed to post this.

You sound like a priest. It is ok if you find disturbing naked woman or sexual jokes like Dark Schneider showing his penis.

But understand that there is lot of people who does not find anything wrong with that neither cares about it, specially since it is a fictional story for Adults. In any case you laugh about it.
It is like if someone tells you a joke related to sex. You just laugh you do not say "OH my holly god protect me from this sinful joke!" or "Holly father a cover with a naked woman and a guy showing his penis, this is so irrespecutful to me, you can not allow nudity neither sexual jokes, even if its on a fictional world".





I'm not against Bastard!!, but rather the undeserved praise it receives. I can't see why anyone would respect the manga when it's evident that the author doesn't respect it or its readers.
Well big news for you. Despite what you say the series has since long time ago lot of fans and who cares? My cousin does not like football soccer and it is the most popular sport around the world. It is just about kicking a ball and still everybody loves the sport. Do not get me wrong I like soccer as well.

But if you think about it football players get more more money than for example people who study physics and maths. I know lot of people IRL who worked really hard to get a degree on physic/maths and they are poorly paid.

I think as well that many series such as One Piece, Bleach and Naruto get more than what they deserve. But there is nothing to do about it if people likes them.

So deal with it.

Also I do no think at all that the author does not respect the readers.

Maybe you think so because you can not tolerate a character like Dark Schneider, who is intentionally meant to insult everyone including the reader.

The idea is "Dark Schneider is so arrogant, and such mother ****er that he does not show respect to no one, not even to the biblical god and the reader".

Understand that the idea of the author is that the manga and the character are complete mess. It is about going against all the rules about characters, story lines and such.


Bastard!! readers know that and they do not have a problem at all.


Besides that the author has constantly apologized with his readers and said he is an awful mangaka. And says thanks to his followers and the people who read the series.


Because that is the idea?

As I already told you, the author mocks about other series and breaks all the "rules" of a manga.

i.e. Typical character who suddenly has absurd power ups.

You are strong but my sword can cut mountains.

Really? because my sword can cut a planet.

My turtle beam is going to crush the planet.

But now my turtle beam is 10000 times more powerful and is bigger than your beam!!!!!

I am going to transform and my powers are going to increase by 100 times.

Hell Bastard!! even has references about power levels and such.


Oh you saw! He can bust a planet!

but he a galaxy

And he a universe

And he is omnipotent


You just need to see the scan of dispel bound to realize about it.

Read carefull and you can see that the author is mocking about all those over powered characters.

I can understand that my english suck, but now do not pretend to ignore some stuff.

In first place I did not post here just because you opened this thread. Neither your nice face

But because your "review" turned into insulting those who read Bastard!!





Hey big guy. You might trick some people, but you are not fooling me. I do draw and I do not need your opinion to know that to be able to draw like that takes lot of experience and it is necessary to develop lot of skill. Because it is not just about shadows, but it requires as well knowledge about volume, profundity and texture. Which the image does have.




More like prove it.




Really? Really?

I was expecting something better. I think you are an smart guy and you can provide something better.

h t t p : / /im g217.imag eshack.u s/i/captura depantalla201 012i.p n g/
h t t p : / / im g408.image shack.u s/i/captura depantalla2 01012hc.p n g/
h t t p :/ /im g31.image shack. u s/i/capturade pantalla201012dg.p n g/
h t t p : / /i m g535.image shack.u s/i/capturade pantalla201012wk.p n g/
h t t p : / / im g403.images hack.u s/i/capturade pantalla201012bt.p n g/

h t t p : / /img825.image shack.us/i/captura depantalla201012ei.p n g/

Oh yea I wonder how untalented Hagiwara most be to draw any of those pictures and improve them with photoshop or whatever. I mean with photoshop anyone can do that!, it is a pice of cake!! :sarcasm.jpg

It would be fascinating to see what can you do with your own pencil and photoshop.

Listen Astner... for some reason, Bastard!! is known for having great artworks. And not because I say so, because that is how it has been stated by many forums and even magazines.








Ok cool I guess.


And if you really know about art. I want you to show me a scan with "decent" acceptable art according to you. And other scan with art that would look awesome to you. Pre-rendered (both of them).

You are asking for pre rendered/ non photoshoped stuff


How about if you try to draw something like this

h t t p : / /i m g32.image shack.u s/f/captura depantalla201012a.p n g/

K, so I read the first 4 chapters and this is what I think:

The art is horrible. It is so bad that it is distracting.

The story is 'meh' and I am not interested in it enough to continue reading.

The humor is lame.

"No thank-you" to this manga.

Hi again, I've hope you've had a nice new year celebration. Personally I was invited to a nightclub with some friends, which I'm usually not much for because I don't drink. Nevertheless I went, met someone and ended up in bed with her so I guess mine was alright.

Now I've read your responses, but to avoid another mess where I address everything you write I'll mainly address your main positions. In other words I will not address repetitive nonsense--which there's a lot of since you seem obliged to multiple repetitive examples to address one point. If there's something of import you feel that I've left out please point it out and I will highlight those in my next post.

Originally posted by mike89un
You do not get the part where Dark Schneider is intentionally meant to be the antithesis of character such as Aladdin and many other cliche protagonist. The author is intentionally laughing about characters such as Aladdin. That is the main idea about Bastard!!

i.e. The typical villain would give in the middle of the battle "an endless speech about how he planned everything and how evil he is".
The typical hero would pay attention to said speech and wait till the enemy ends so he can start attacking.

Dark Schneider would instead say "ok shut up already and die" while he kills the enemy
That's not the case at all. In Walt Disney's Aladdin there wasn't a single moment where the protagonist stood still and listen to the antagonist's speech and the antagonist never addressed himself as evil either. I further can't recall a Walt Disney where that occurs.

It's not a commonly reoccurring theme as far as I'm concerned. The fact that Dark Schneider is unrealistically impulsive can only be attributed to bad writing.

Even if it's for the purpose of being a parody Bastard!! is no better than the average Lord of the Rings dub parody, dubbed by two prepubescent teens trying to squeeze in six curse words in a sentence of five words. Not all parodies are good, period.

Originally posted by mike89un
And? Really and?
A series ought to have more than one memorable character. I can't even remember a single character in any work of fiction as poorly illustrated and unlikable as most of the characters in Bastard!!. Not to mention that Dark Schneider isn't that well written himself, in fact I could name at least ten character from each work of the Holy Shonen Trinity--yes that includes Bleach--more interesting and well-developed than Dark Schneider.

Originally posted by mike89un
So how about not ignoring the fact that you insulted those who read bastard!! by basically stating that those who read Bastard!! like to see penis huh? If people call him Darsh it is because it is much faster to type Darsh than Dark Schneider. Same reason why you type D.S. But some people forgets what does D.S. or those who are not familiar with the series would know what D.S. means
With the exception of Arshes Nei no one calls Dark Schneider for Darsh. It's a snuggle name it's like calling someone named Mathew for Mattie.

Not only is D.S. shorter, but that's what he's called in the manga.

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/8370/dsc00454as.th.jpg
I don't have the manga in a computer format, so you'll have to deal with camera pictures, though it's in 14 mega pixels so there's no actual reason for complaint.

Besides, who would recognize Darsh if they hadn't read the manga? Not even a google search of the name would provide any form of insight.

Originally posted by mike89un
You sound like a priest. It is ok if you find disturbing naked woman or sexual jokes like Dark Schneider showing his penis.
I'm a Engineering physics student, soon to be physicist. I've also pointed out that I don't find nudity disturbing. It's just poorly presented and out of place. It's not sexually arousing and it's not funny, unless you crack up to penis jokes which shouldn't be the case for anyone past puberty.

Originally posted by mike89un
I can understand that my english suck, but now do not pretend to ignore some stuff.
It's a real bother. I'm multi-linguistic too, I was born and raised in Sweden my mother is Polish and my stepmother is Russian and I speak all three languages fluently. On top of that I've studied French and Spanish in school. That's no excuse for horrible and ambiguous writing.

Furthermore I don't deliberately try to avoid any of your arguments, if I have it's most likely because your poor presentation of them.

Originally posted by mike89un
Oh yea I wonder how untalented Hagiwara most be to draw any of those pictures and improve them with photoshop or whatever. I mean with photoshop anyone can do that!, it is a pice of cake!! :sarcasm.jpg
I'm not saying that using photoshop to enhance your images is bad. I'm just saying that praising a author for his artwork by using photoshopped images when he clearly can't draw worth a damn isn't a proper presentation.

Originally posted by mike89un
You are asking for pre rendered/ non photoshoped stuff

How about if you try to draw something like this

http://img32.imageshack.us/f/capturadepantalla201012a.png/
First off that isn't a pre-rendered picture, that image is clotted with screen-toners and ink and it might further even be photoshopped.

A pre-rendered picture would be a sketch, where you can clearly see the outlines.

Furthermore environmental background is not difficult to draw. The human body commonly referred to as the blueprint of all art. I'll show you some of the disproportional bodies from Bastard!! shortly, but first I'll present some more of my high school art, which I recently brought down from the attic to prove that it's fairly easy to draw a plausible background.

Keep in mind that I only took two art classes in high school, whereof one was obligatory. So my experience does in no way compare to Kazushi Hagiwara's who've supposedly drawn hentai and manga since before I was born. My art shouldn't even be comparable.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/8164/dsc00444yl.th.jpghttp://img225.imageshack.us/img225/1600/dsc00445f.th.jpg
A oil painting for a high school art project, the cloth has been scrolled together and has to be straighten out with some heavy books.

Now lets examine some of Kazushi Hagiwara's body illustrations.


http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/3821/dsc00456e.th.jpghttp://img515.imageshack.us/img515/5195/dsc00455m.th.jpg
Notice how Arshe's disfigured arm reaches down to the hollow of the knee. Further notice that Dark Schneider's body art would've resulted in a F in any high school art class. Keep in mind that the manga pages are drawn of A4 papers before shrunken down to a A5 format.

Originally posted by Astner
I've not been diagnosed with Asperger's or any other mental deficiencies. It's just Abigail trying to get revenge on me for criticizing his favored work of fiction by throwing some e-psychology my way.


My comment wasn't directed at you. It was toward's Aldric's immature and hateful word choices, especially using the term Asperger's like it was a negative trait.

Originally posted by dadudemon

You must have very mild Asperger's because you do not seem like you have it, at all.

But, yeah, that comment was meant to be hurtful and is technically a ban-able offense.

Thank you! I'm often told that and I also don't let labels define who I am. It's a part of me rather than my entire self.

Well, I'd better not derail the topic any further! I will say I do enjoy Bastard!! but I can understand why some wouldn't. It's certainly not a manga for everyone but it is for me.

Only thing i've seen of Bastard related stuff is the game on the Snes.

Originally posted by Astner

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/3821/dsc00456e.th.jpghttp://img515.imageshack.us/img515/5195/dsc00455m.th.jpg
Notice how Arshe's disfigured arm reaches down to the hollow of the knee. Further notice that Dark Schneider's body art would've resulted in a F in any high school art class. Keep in mind that the manga pages are drawn of A4 papers before shrunken down to a A5 format.

I hoped you wrapped it before you tapped it, Astner.


But about that first image:

I do not understand your first point: I have really longs arms and before my lats and arms got big, they used to come about 3-4 inches above my knee. So how is that anatomically incorrect?

Also, the character's can be drawn anatomically incorrect because it's fiction and manga (different styles), right? Some of the perspective drawing is horribly off and it's "messy", which was what my complaints were about.

Originally posted by dadudemon


Must be a fan of Rob Liefield

Originally posted by Kazenji
Must be a fan of Rob Liefield


Some of his art IS beautiful...but I'm not really familiar with "names."

Originally posted by dadudemon
But about that first image:

I do not understand your first point: I have really longs arms and before my lats and arms got big, they used to come about 3-4 inches above my knee. So how is that anatomically incorrect?
There are certain anatomical relations that are rather accurate when it comes to the illustration of the human body. For instance, with your arms stretched out the length between your fingertips should be roughly the same as your height.

As for your arms, it depends on your length. However, with a stretched back no one should be able to reach your knees, period.

There are similar anatomical errors where D.S.'s legs are 2/3rds of his body length rather than the usual 1/2.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Also, the character's can be drawn anatomically incorrect because it's fiction and manga (different styles), right? Some of the perspective drawing is horribly off and it's "messy", which was what my complaints were about.
It has little to nothing to do with the style. Due to the forum restrictions I don't want to post manga nudity, but if you've seen the sex scene between Gutts and Casca in Berserk you can see how well drawn and proportional the bodies there really are.

Originally posted by Astner
There are certain anatomical relations that are rather accurate when it comes to the illustration of the human body. For instance, with your arms stretched out the length between your fingertips should be roughly the same as your height.

As for your arms, it depends on your length. However, with a stretched back no one should be able to reach your knees, period.

There are similar anatomical errors where D.S.'s legs are 2/3rds of his body length rather than the usual 1/2.

Full disclosure: my arms, from tip to tip of my middle fingers, are 5.5 inches (almost exactly 14 cm) longer than I am tall. I was just pointing out that people can have slight anatomical variance in their proportions and still be "realistic". But, your next point makes me think that I've been missing what you've been getting at, the whole time.


Originally posted by Astner
It has little to nothing to do with the style. Due to the forum restrictions I don't want to post manga nudity, but if you've seen the sex scene between Gutts and Casca in Berserk you can see how well drawn and proportional the bodies there really are.

Are you saying that sometimes, they are 1/2 and other times they are 2/3? I think that's what you're saying. IMO, that's a problem with just about every manga out there.


Don't get me wrong, I couldn't stand reading Bastard!!. I think it was a very large waste of time.


And, yes, that's shitty: we should have a 17+ section for discussing or posting whatever we want. Many of us have had to draw nude characters, just as part of school. Most of us have had to take anatomy courses. So, I do not see the harm in making a section for mature posts: we could easily setup an age verification check for entry, to that sub-forum.