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Ok, so this is a 16 way Tournament. All battles are fought in the geonosis arena. Here is the matches:

Round One

Match 1:ROTS Yoda vs PM Obi Wan

Match 2:ESB Vader vs Assaj Ventress

Match 3:AOTC Dooku vs. ROTS Anakin

Match 4arth Maul vs Grievus

Match 5:ROTJ Luke vs Qui Gonn

Match 6:ROTS Obi Wan vs ROTS Mace Windu

Match 7:Kit Fisto vs ROTS Sidious

Match 8:ANH Ben Kenobi vs Galen Mareck


Round Two

Match 1 winner vs Match 8 Winner
Match 2 Winner vs Match 7 Winner
Match 3 winner vs Match 6 Winner
Match 4 Winner Vs Match 5 Winner


Round Three

Match 1/8 Winner vs Match 2/7 Winner
Match 3/6 Winner vs Match 4/5 Winner

Round Four
The two left

All out, or strictly lightsaber duel?

dang this is quite complicated but its interesting. i still need to decide who i think the winner will be...

The most likely outcomes:

Match 1: Sorry, but what do you mean by "PM"? Yoda during ROTS would win over Obi Wan though.

Match 2: Vader

Match 3: Dooku

Match 4: close, probably Grevious

Match 5: Qui Gon

Match 6: Mace Windu

Match 7: Sidious

Match 8: Galen Marek

Then it's:

Probably Yoda
Sidious
Mace Windu
Grevious

Then:

Yoda
Close, but based on the ROTS fight between Mace Windu and Sidious Mace Windu overpowered Sidious in a duel but Sidious attacked Mace Windu with Force lightning. Although Mace Windu overcame that, there's speculation over whether or not Sidious faked weakness during the Force fight.


If Mace Windu wins, Yoda wins the final round. If Sidious wins, then Yoda probably wins in a close fight if the fight is on neutral ground.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Match 1: Sorry, but what do you mean by "PM"? phantom menace...

Originally posted by kodiak430
phantom menace...

Oh ok, thanks. I'm used to "TPM" instead of "PM" for Star Wars The Phantom Menace.

Assuming all out...

Round 1:

Match 1: Winner - Yoda.

Match 2: Winner - Vader.

Match 3: Winner - Anakin.

Match 4: Winner - Grievous.

Match 5: Winner - Luke.

Match 6: Winner - Mace.

Match 7: Winner - Sidious.

Match 8: Winner - Galen.

Round 2:

Yoda vs. Galen = Yoda.
Vader vs. Sidious = Sidious.
Anakin vs. Mace = Mace.
Grievous vs. Luke = Grievous.

Round 3:

Yoda vs. Sidious = Yoda.
Mace vs. Grievous = Mace.

Final Round:

Yoda vs. Mace = Yoda wins it all.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Oh ok, thanks. I'm used to "TPM" instead of "PM" for Star Wars The Phantom Menace. haha np sorry if i sounded rude

PM was a typo, it ment pt

Winners of the First Round
Yoda
Vader
Dooku
Grievous
Jinn
Windu
Sidious
Marek

Winners of the Quarter Finals
Yoda
Sidious
Anakin
Grievous

Winners of the Semi Finals
Yoda
Anakin

Final Victor
Yoda

First Round:
Yoda
Vader
Anakin
Maul
Luke
Obi-Wan
Sidious
Marek

Second Round:
Yoda
Sidious
Anakin
Luke

Third Round:
Sidious
Anakin

Final:
Anakin

Originally posted by mattatom

Winners of the Quarter Finals
Yoda
Sidious

Winners of the Semi Finals
Yoda


Nothing you said there made any sense.

Match 1:Yoda easilly
Match 2:Vader in a lengthy fight
Match 3:Anakin
Match 4arth Maul would chop grievus up
Match 5:Qui Gonn,Luke sucks
Match 6:Mace Windu would eventually break through Obi Wan's deffence
Match 7idious in a few swings
Match 8:Galen Marick would kill slow kenobi

Round Two
Match 1:Yoda would jump around Marick and pwn him
Match 2idious would kill the cripell
Match 3:Windu in a super lengthy fight
Match 4arth Maul would kill Qui Gonn again

Round Three
Match 1:Yoda would win, he would have won if he wasn't so light last fight
Match 2:In an amazing fight, Mace Windu uses shatterpoint to win

Final
Yoda own Windu

Originally posted by Shoes
Nothing you said there made any sense. Yes it did, in a straight one on one in a flat playing field where Yoda's mass will not make him fall of a senate pod, he will kill Sidious with his saber.

Originally posted by mattatom
Yes it did, in a straight one on one in a flat playing field where Yoda's mass will not make him fall of a senate pod, he will kill Sidious with his saber.

Sidious purposely dropped his saber in order to blast him.

Also this is fought in the G. arena, meaning if Sidious can get into the stands, Yoda will take it up the ass.

Originally posted by Shoes
Sidious purposely dropped his saber in order to blast him.

Also this is fought in the G. arena, meaning if Sidious can get into the stands, Yoda will take it up the ass.

Ehm, can you give the source for that, because I must have misread it somewhere.

In finality, Yoda or Sidious would beat Mace. Those would be the top 3. I'm sure Yoda and Sidious were equally matched.

Originally posted by Anakin4Ever
In finality, Yoda or Sidious would beat Mace. Those would be the top 3. I'm sure Yoda and Sidious were equally matched.

Maybe in a force fight. Yoda was owning him in a ligtsaber figt and Sidious kept trying to avoid lightsaber confrontation

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Ehm, can you give the source for that, because I must have misread it somewhere.

You obviously misread it.

Originally posted by Anakin4Ever
In finality, Yoda or Sidious would beat Mace. Those would be the top 3. I'm sure Yoda and Sidious were equally matched.

no

Originally posted by Zack Skywalker
Maybe in a force fight. Yoda was owning him in a ligtsaber figt and Sidious kept trying to avoid lightsaber confrontation

When did he try to avoid it?

Originally posted by Shoes
You obviously misread it.


There is no source. You made it up. Making your post garbage.







"If so powerful you are, why leave?"

I asked for when he specifically avoided lightsaber confrontation, you illiterate cow.

Originally posted by Shoes
I asked for when he specifically avoided lightsaber confrontation, you illiterate cow.

and you are going to ignore your garbage comment about Sidious dropping his lightsaber on purpose?

He avoided lightsaber confrontation when he started throwing pods at him, and wen Yoda jumped to attack him on the pod. Yoda>Sidious

Is this a strict lightsaber confrontation, with no access to offensive Force manipulations?

Originally posted by truejedi
and you are going to ignore your garbage comment about Sidious dropping his lightsaber on purpose?

Prove Yoda disarmed him. From my perspective, i saw him letting go of the saber on purpose, so you can't use your interpretation of the film as canon.

go

Originally posted by Shoes
Prove Yoda disarmed him. From my perspective, i saw him letting go of the saber on purpose, so you can't use your interpretation of the film as canon.

go

you never saw him let go of the saber at all. Stop lying. That's twice in one thread.


Also, there are two sources that confirm Sidious was disarmed by Yoda.

awwwwww...

shoes is trolling you guys again and youre all just eating it up!

Originally posted by truejedi
you never saw him let go of the saber at all.

I guarantee it.



I'm not.



Care to tell me?

According to the comic, Yoda disarmed him. And in the movie, it didn't show, but Yoda seemed dominant in the fight. In the lightsaber duel, Sidious was starting to panic due to Yoda being to agile. Then, when Yoda jumped onto the same pod as him, he immmedetlly blasted his saber away before they could fight. Then Yoda absorbed his lightniong, shot it back at him and Sidious and him were blasted back and Yoda had a harder fall since his tiny mass. And if you say anything about a novel, it isn't as good of a source as the movie since it is based of the movie.

I always perceived Yoda and Sidious as evenly matched when it comes to force powers, neither could overcome the other. Also the last scene from their fight made me think that they are indeed equals in force department. Yet when it comes to sabers, I'd give the edge to Mater Yoda.

Those are your interpretations of the film, and are therefore not classified as G-canon any more and are invalid.

No U! Luckily for me my interpretation does not stand in opposition to G-canon, so there

Originally posted by Shoes
Sidious purposely dropped his saber in order to blast him.

Also this is fought in the G. arena, meaning if Sidious can get into the stands, Yoda will take it up the ass.

More claims that Shoes can't back up and only uses his own conjecture.. then when called on that and asked for proof... goes you're on ignore.. LOL

Originally posted by Shoes
Prove Yoda disarmed him. From my perspective, i saw him letting go of the saber on purpose, so you can't use your interpretation of the film as canon.

go

Is this a joke? When did Sidious voluntarily let go of his lightsaber and why would he? He could put it back on his belt/wherever he puts it. If Sidious did indeed voluntarily let go of his lightsaber during his duel with Yoda, then he's much stupider than I thought.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Is this a joke? When did Sidious voluntarily let go of his lightsaber and why would he? He could put it back on his belt/wherever he puts it. If Sidious did indeed voluntarily let go of his lightsaber during his duel with Yoda, then he's much stupider than I thought.

He let go, I assure you.

He didn't have time to put it on his belt.

He let go in order to demonstrate to Yoda how feeble his force power was compared to his own.

Give me one source that says he dropped his saber.And Yoda's powers were not"feeble" compared to Sidious. They were equally matched on even ground, if anything Yoda was more powerful.Sidious seemed scared as Yoda shot lightning back at him

^

That argument will not do. The official databank, the Ultimate Visual Guide, the New Essential Chronology, the Essential Atlas, and the Complete Visual Dictionary -- all licensed Star Wars products -- all either state or suggest that Palpatine was greater than Yoda in terms of Force strength and capability.

Janus attempted to use the whole "Sidious looks afraid" line before, without much success. The fact that Sidious did seem afraid or shocked is not indicative of inferiority; moments before that, Yoda was forcibly disarmed by the Emperor's Force lightning and not only struggled with the bolts, but was in obvious pain from holding them. The novelization's internal narrative (line-edited by Lucas himself) has Yoda musing how he lost the fight before it began; Palpatine was simply too powerful.

That Yoda held his own and had favorable moments does not mean that he's more powerful than the Emperor; we saw Yoda knocked unconscious, disarmed, and forced to retreat by the Emperor at various points.

---

That said, Yoda would likely win the lightsaber duel; he is, according to the Clone Wars Character Guide, a master of all lightsaber forms and has kept in practice, whereas the Emperor has not.

Which only proves how ridiculously skilled Palpatine was. To be able to hold his own against the blademaster without any practice for over a decade is rather impressive.

Originally posted by Gideon

That said, Yoda would likely win the lightsaber duel Hm, while I do see them as near-equals where lightsaber combat is concerned, it's hard for me to imagine Yoda being able to overcome the speed Palpatine brings to the table. Remember, in their last encounter Palpatine wasn't really able to apply his speed edge much at all (or at least in the same manner he did against Mace and his team) because they were battling within the confines of a tiny Senate pod -- yet he still appeared to be every bit Yoda's equal.

...Now put Palps in a forum setting where he can use his 'blur-esque' speed more, and his odds vs. Yoda could (and likely would) increase considerably. Imho.

Originally posted by Galan007
Hm, while I do see them as near-equals where lightsaber combat is concerned, it's hard for me to imagine Yoda being able to overcome the speed Palpatine brings to the table. Remember, in their last encounter Palpatine wasn't really able to apply his speed edge much at all (or at least in the same manner he did against Mace and his team) because they were battling within the confines of a tiny Senate pod -- yet he still appeared to be every bit Yoda's equal.

...Now put Palps in a forum setting where he can use his 'blur-esque' speed more, and his odds vs. Yoda could (and likely would) increase considerably. Imho.

Palpatine is faster than Yoda?

Yes.

Prove it

I'd say that Yoda is faster than Sidious. In the ROTS Yoda vs Sidious scene Yoda was the one jumping around and evading Sidious.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
I'd say that Yoda is faster than Sidious. In the ROTS Yoda vs Sidious scene Yoda was the one jumping around and evading Sidious. So Yoda is faster just because his form involves a bunch of ridiculous acrobatics? Nah. The novel and film depict Sidious having no problems keeping up with Yoda, even though the majority of their duel took place within a small Senate pod. That's why I think that if they would've battled in a place where Sidious could have applied his speed more, he would have had the definitive edge.

Originally posted by Galan007
So Yoda is faster just because his form involves a bunch of ridiculous acrobatics? Nah. The novel and film depict Sidious having no problems keeping up with Yoda, even though their duel took place within a small Senate pod. That's why I think that if they would've battled in a place where Sidious could have applied his speed more, he would have had the definitive edge.

What evidence is there for that?

^ My only 'proof' behind that opinion is the fact that when Sidious was able to use his speed more, even a Vaapad-immersed Mace referred to him as "a blur of Sith."

where is the proof that Vapaad using mace is faster than Yoda?

^ There's nothing explicitly stating that Mace was moving faster against Palpatine than Yoda was. However, there were a few excerpts which depict Mace (and Palpatine) moving at asinine speeds:

-"The Korun Master seemed to be fading in and out of existence, half swallowed by a thickening black haze in which danced a meter-long bar of sunfire. Mace pressed back the darkness with a relentless straight-ahead march."

-"The shadow he fought, that blur of speed, could that be Palpatine?"

-"Their blades flared and flashed, crashing together with bursts of fire, weaving nets of killing energy in exchanges so fast that Anakin could not truly see them-But he could feel them in the Force. The Force itself roiled and burst and crashed around them, boiling with power and lightspeed ricochets of lethal intent."

-"He could feel the end of this battle approaching, and so could the blur of Sith he faced."

Etc.

---

Statements of that magnitude (pertaining to speed) cannot be found in the Palpatine/Yoda battle.

would sidious have any reason to move slower against Yoda than he did against Mace? Sidious was the deciding factor of speed against Mace. Mace matched sidious's speed, not the other way around.

Originally posted by truejedi
would sidious have any reason to move slower against Yoda than he did against Mace? Again, much of their duel took place within the confines of a small Senate pod. Sidious wouldn't have been able to use his speed to the same degree he did in his relatively unconfined battle with Mace.

Originally posted by truejedi
Sidious was the deciding factor of speed against Mace. Mace matched sidious's speed, not the other way around. Which still doesn't change the fact that they were both moving at unparalleled speeds.

Originally posted by Galan007
Again, much of their duel took place within the confines of a small Senate pod. Sidious wouldn't have been able to use his speed to the same degree he did in his relatively unconfined battle with Mace.


On the contrary, when Sidious took down those 3 Jedi (arguably his best speed feat and lightsaber feat) the space was pretty confined.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
On the contrary, when Sidious took down those 3 Jedi (arguably his best speed feat and lightsaber feat) the space was pretty confined. Nowhere near as confined as a Senate pod... And his 'best' feats of speed took place while he was fighting Mace (see the excerpts I posted above.)

why was he on a senate pod?

Not sure. GL could probably answer that question better then me.

Originally posted by Galan007
Not sure. GL could probably answer that question better then me.

Maybe Sidious wanted to nullify the speed advantage that YODA had.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Maybe Sidious wanted to nullify the speed advantage that YODA had. Yoda had a speed advantage on Sidious? Source plz.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
On the contrary, when Sidious took down those 3 Jedi (arguably his best speed feat and lightsaber feat) the space was pretty confined.

Does anyone else feel that this scene in the movie could have been done a lot better? Saesee Tinn and the other guy (not Kit Fisto) were just standing still. Hell, Coleman Trebor could have cut them down.

I know, this is clearly supposed to be a demonstration of Sidious' awesomeness, but it just looked really bad and slow.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yoda had a speed advantage on Sidious? Source plz.

They both jumped towards the door from the same distance and Yoda arrived there first.

I thought movie canon>c canon, and as far as the movie goes, Sidious wasn't superior to yoda with the force. Maybe he had a little advantage on him, but they were barely equal.

As far as lightsaber duel goes, it's controversy, we never saw him losing his lightsaber in the movie, yet the novelization says he lost it.

Well, as I said, they are pretty equal, so IMO if they were fighting all out, Sidious may have like 51% chances of winning, while in a strict lightsaber fight, I would give a slight advantage to Yoda.

Originally posted by Shoes
They both jumped towards the door from the same distance and Yoda arrived there first.

Impeccable!

Originally posted by SWFan4Life
but it just looked really bad and slow. This statement defines the entire on-screen portrayal of that battle, imo. That's why you almost have to read the novel.

I saw him deliberately release his grip on the saber to make ready a force blast.

Originally posted by Shoes
I saw him deliberately release his grip on the saber to make ready a force blast.

Why not turn it off and put it on his belt instead of dropping it?

No time.

Originally posted by Shoes
No time.

And why would it be absolutely necessary for Sidious to perform a Force push? Was Yoda overpowering him?

It seems more likely that Sidious was disarmed.

Because he decided that he wanted the battle to end.

Originally posted by Galan007


This statement defines the entire on-screen portrayal of that battle, imo. That's why you almost have to read the novel.

Yea you're convincing me to buy it. I have held off from reading any of the novelizations of the Star Wars movies for fear of ruining the sheer awesomeness of the films.

Despite those movie scenes that somewhat didn't make any sense, or just looked outright silly, I feel the excess detail in the books (or any differences from the movies) will just detract from the movies. (anybody else view it that way?)

The novel is much better then the movie.

By a lot.

Originally posted by SWFan4Life
Yea you're convincing me to buy it. I have held off from reading any of the novelizations of the Star Wars movies for fear of ruining the sheer awesomeness of the films.

Despite those movie scenes that somewhat didn't make any sense, or just looked outright silly, I feel the excess detail in the books (or any differences from the movies) will just detract from the movies. (anybody else view it that way?) Read the RotS novel. You won't be disappointed.

Ok, don't go by the novels. They are based on the movies meaning Movies>Novels

Originally posted by Zack Skywalker
Ok, don't go by the novels. They are based on the movies meaning Movies>Novels And what's your point? This forum operates under the rules of canon, and that includes C-canon.

G-canon is George Lucas Canon; the six Episodes and anything directly provided to Lucas Licensing by Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public). Elements originating with Lucas in the movie novelizations, reference books, and other sources are also G-canon, though anything created by the authors of those sources is C-canon. When the matter of changes between movie versions arises, the most recently released editions are deemed superior to older ones, as they correct mistakes, improve consistency between the two trilogies, and express Lucas's current vision of the Star Wars universe most closely. The deleted scenes included on the DVDs are also considered G-canon (when they're not in conflict with the movie).


Originally posted by SWFan4Life
Yea you're convincing me to buy it. I have held off from reading any of the novelizations of the Star Wars movies for fear of ruining the sheer awesomeness of the films.

Despite those movie scenes that somewhat didn't make any sense, or just looked outright silly, I feel the excess detail in the books (or any differences from the movies) will just detract from the movies. (anybody else view it that way?) Oh, good God, no. When it comes to the PT, there is no such thing as "the sheer awesomeness of the films." Their top qualities are amazing visuals and Ian McDiarmid. Nothing else.

^Disclaimer: I like the OT more than the PT, obviously.

However, I disagree, I enjoyed everything about the PT but the sh*tty acting by Hayden. I can see why a lot of people don't like it (GL just wanted to make money, allegations that he focused more on effects than storyline, people have problems comparing the story and cinema quality of PT with OT, blah blah blah). If that makes me a savage, then call me Doc Savage.

It's freaking STAR WARS, on the BIG SCREEN. 'Nuff said.

The OT was better than PT, and Hayden is the worst actor ever. ROTJ wasnt that good, ROTS was better.

I used to be an OT-purist, but the truth is that I've watched the PT much moar. The reason is that the PT has a much more ambitious, mature plot to it.

I hope to remake the entire franchise within fifteen years.

Originally posted by Shoes
Because he decided that he wanted the battle to end.

...

Then why do a Force push? How would that help if he has to drop his lightsaber? By dropping his lightsaber, he does help the match end...possibly with his death.

People bash Christensen for his acting, and I don't know why. I always felt that he gave a good performance for what was demanded of him, just Star Wars wasn't the place to do it. Ever seen Shattered Glass? He was very good in it. Depends on who the director is.

I think Star Wars' single greatest problem is not George Lucas per se, but Lucas's intent on micromanaging everything. I don't get it. He's clearly the mastermind behind the saga, his name is the one that is the most associated with the franchise, and he'd be a billionaire either way.

But it's evident that he's up in the air about the saga; the PT is far more politically and psychologically complex than the OT, but he's also apparently more interested in indulging children with devices such as Jar Jar Binks.

I wish he'd pass day-to-day direction of the empire off to truly competent writers and visionaries; people who could take his magnificient dream and manufacture it in the way it was meant to be manufactured.

I lost faith in him ever since he wanted Grievous's backstory to be one of a man who was simply frustrated with his lack of Force sensitivity and who volunteered for the procedures performed.

Grievous was cool in the animated Clone Wars, when he didn't hail from Soviet Russia.

The Redlettermedia videos on YouTube are good reviews of the PT (and Avatar). I like the way he words what we all think.

Personally, I enjoy the original backstory for Grievous. He was a patsy, a pawn, someone who really wasn't manipulated into becoming what he did, but was forced. He was royally screwed by the corruption in the Republic with the Huk/Kaleesh war, he was screwed even harder by Palpatine, and was ultimately brainwashed into becoming a cyborg killer.

That is far more frightening and compelling than fvcking power insecurities.

Power insecurities are for Palpatine and Sith Co. In my cold-blooded robot killers I like someone who doesn't care about their own life but is determined to f*ck up everyone elses. Like Niko Bellic.

I just don't like it when every villain and their mother has to be the result of insecurity: it's retarded that Grievous became a killer simply because he couldn't be a Jedi.

Sounds.... juvenile.

Sounds like something that Anakin might do.