Ganondorf(tp) vs. Hylden Lord(BO2)

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quanchi112
No references to any other versions of Ganondorf for this thread please. The Hylden Lord is actually referred to as the Sarafan Lord throughout the game.

The Hylden Lord gets the soulreaver as he used it in the game.

Who wins?

Burning thought
I assume the Hylden Lord is not allowed to possess Dorf like he does Janos in Defiance, your other threads do not allow powers from other games despite being relevent to the character so I assume its the same here?

I think even the "real" non fanon version of Dorf can win this otherwise, he has more powers than the Sarafan lord who seems to only teleport and fire energy blasts. Cant see him winning a majority if at all.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Burning thought
I assume the Hylden Lord is not allowed to possess Dorf like he does Janos in Defiance, your other threads do not allow powers from other games despite being relevent to the character so I assume its the same here?

I think even the "real" non fanon version of Dorf can win this otherwise, he has more powers than the Sarafan lord who seems to only teleport and fire energy blasts. Cant see him winning a majority if at all. Neither can possess the other. Both have shown the ability to and since he didn't really do it to anyone else save Janos and some others before he physically made the jump it's a stretch for either to possess each other.

I can't believe you don't see him winning this. The guy is an equal of Kain's and would definitely stomp Raziel a new one.


He also possesses glyph magic.

NemeBro
Ganondorf kills the Hydlen Lord and then goes on to tear Kain and Raziel in half and kill the Elder God, all before lunch.

LLLLLink
Originally posted by NemeBro
Ganondorf kills the Hydlen Lord and then goes on to tear Kain and Raziel in half and kill the Elder God, all before lunch.

QFT.

FinalAnswer
Ganondorf stomps.

Hylden Lord was pathetic.

kodiak430
ganondorf ftw

Burning thought
Originally posted by quanchi112
Neither can possess the other. Both have shown the ability to and since he didn't really do it to anyone else save Janos and some others before he physically made the jump it's a stretch for either to possess each other.

I can't believe you don't see him winning this. The guy is an equal of Kain's and would definitely stomp Raziel a new one.


He also possesses glyph magic.

Not really, Ganondorfs is like a possession mist form and Hylden lord simply possesses Janos across dimentions in an instant. Theres a big difference, if Possession was allowed then Hylden lord wins instantly.

Not really, he may have been an equel of Kains in Blood omen but a lot has changed since Blood omen series, Kains evolved and has become more powerful by far. Ganondorf has the power set to beat at least the Hylden lord.

Yes but glyph magic iirc did not do much other than shoot lightning and orbs of energy, you could stretch that him annhilating Raziel in a shot from those lightning blasts he fired would defeat Ganondorf but the Hylden lord would not win a majority.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Ganondorf kills the Hydlen Lord and then goes on to tear Kain and Raziel in half and kill the Elder God, all before lunch.

This is after Midna wipes out the omniverse with a sneeze in your little world is it?

quanchi112
Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Ganondorf stomps.

Hylden Lord was pathetic. Hahahahaha, how was he pathetic? I can't wait to hear this one.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Ganondorf kills the Hydlen Lord and then goes on to tear Kain and Raziel in half and kill the Elder God, all before lunch. Based on what?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Not really, Ganondorfs is like a possession mist form and Hylden lord simply possesses Janos across dimentions in an instant. Theres a big difference, if Possession was allowed then Hylden lord wins instantly.

Not really, he may have been an equel of Kains in Blood omen but a lot has changed since Blood omen series, Kains evolved and has become more powerful by far. Ganondorf has the power set to beat at least the Hylden lord.

Yes but glyph magic iirc did not do much other than shoot lightning and orbs of energy, you could stretch that him annhilating Raziel in a shot from those lightning blasts he fired would defeat Ganondorf but the Hylden lord would not win a majority.



This is after Midna wipes out the omniverse with a sneeze in your little world is it? Dorf also possessed someone whereas the Hylden Lord couldn't easily possess Kain or Vorador in blood omen 2. I don't think he possessed anyone since he appeared physically in the game.


The reason Kain won was because he had help aka janos who provided him the distraction he needed to get the soulreaver which screwed the Hylden Lord over.

Dorf I don't see winning this. The Hylden Lord imposed his will over nosgoth for a few hundred years, bested Kain once, and the second time around Kain had Jano's interference to get him the reaver.


Kain was always powerful since blood omen 1 and since then got older and wiser but I don't see a dramatic power change taking place. I see his bread and butter remaining the soulreaver which is what he needed to best the Hylden Lord.

MooCowofJustice
Absolutely nothing you mentioned is a feat that assists him. "Imposed his will over Nosgoth for a few hundred years." Cool?

quanchi112
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Absolutely nothing you mentioned is a feat that assists him. "Imposed his will over Nosgoth for a few hundred years." Cool? He did so by marching an army against Kain and defeating him in battle. Kain the guy no one else has ever beaten he beat him so badly he was out for a few hundred years.

MooCowofJustice
And this Kain was weaker than he is now, right? Yeah. Kain right now is considerably weak. Ganondorf is above him in Durability and Strength. That's about all he needs.

quanchi112
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
And this Kain was weaker than he is now, right? Yeah. Kain right now is considerably weak. Ganondorf is above him in Durability and Strength. That's about all he needs. No, he got weaker because he was crushed in battle and even at his weakest he could still rip out hearts through armor.

Burning thought
Originally posted by quanchi112

Dorf also possessed someone whereas the Hylden Lord couldn't easily possess Kain or Vorador in blood omen 2. I don't think he possessed anyone since he appeared physically in the game.


The reason Kain won was because he had help aka janos who provided him the distraction he needed to get the soulreaver which screwed the Hylden Lord over.

Dorf I don't see winning this. The Hylden Lord imposed his will over nosgoth for a few hundred years, bested Kain once, and the second time around Kain had Jano's interference to get him the reaver.


Kain was always powerful since blood omen 1 and since then got older and wiser but I don't see a dramatic power change taking place. I see his bread and butter remaining the soulreaver which is what he needed to best the Hylden Lord.

He possessed Zelda at short range in the form of a little cloud of twilight iirc. Its not the same as instantly controlling an ancient immortal like Janos who showed some kind of resistance (unlike Zelda). We dont see it happen but when he put Janos' body in the device to power it he sent his body into the old Sarafan lord, also dont forget that Mortanius was also possessed by the Hylden who then became the Dark entity in Blood omen, the Hylden have possessed many.

Yes but the Hylden lord only won the first fight because of the Nexus stone, without that protection Kain would have destroyed him then and there like he did in the final battle. They have both had

Hes evolved over the centuries, their not the same characters. The creatures and vampires in the soulreaver era use technologically mature humans as mere amusement wheras vampire hunters in LoK Blood omen era are basic yet so are their vampire foes. The Soul reaver era is far ahead in leage to Blood omen...

I mean to be fair the Sarafan lords best bet is to spam teleport and his lightning blasts or projectiles that he fires from the sword, one slash from the sword and Ganondorf is dead so I admit there is a chance but Ganondorf has a lot more variety in power from turning to an ethereal twilight form, to teleportion etc.

MooCowofJustice
That's still pathetic compared to Ganondorf. Even using feats that you will not contest.

Burning thought
Ganondorfs not ripped anyone from what youve shown, infact I am not sure he has any feats at all strengthwise apart from apprently breaking his castle physically (yet to see evidence) and his durability feat is an ambigious lulz worthy claim where Midna uses the fused shadows based on a form he does not usually take.

If Ganondorf stomps this, its not through physicaly power. The Sarafan lord is not impressive physically but teleporting would mean Ganondorf would not have any chance of hitting him with a strike anyway.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Burning thought
He possessed Zelda at short range in the form of a little cloud of twilight iirc. Its not the same as instantly controlling an ancient immortal like Janos who showed some kind of resistance (unlike Zelda). We dont see it happen but when he put Janos' body in the device to power it he sent his body into the old Sarafan lord, also dont forget that Mortanius was also possessed by the Hylden who then became the Dark entity in Blood omen, the Hylden have possessed many.

Yes but the Hylden lord only won the first fight because of the Nexus stone, without that protection Kain would have destroyed him then and there like he did in the final battle. They have both had

Hes evolved over the centuries, their not the same characters. The creatures and vampires in the soulreaver era use technologically mature humans as mere amusement wheras vampire hunters in LoK Blood omen era are basic yet so are their vampire foes. The Soul reaver era is far ahead in leage to Blood omen...

I mean to be fair the Sarafan lords best bet is to spam teleport and his lightning blasts or projectiles that he fires from the sword, one slash from the sword and Ganondorf is dead so I admit there is a chance but Ganondorf has a lot more variety in power from turning to an ethereal twilight form, to teleportion etc. I do agree the hylden possession is much more impressive than a knocked out zelda, but my point is neither have ever done so while in mid battle against an enemy. The Hylden Lord didn't possess anyone when he physically made the jump to nosgoth only prior to.


Kain had the soulreaver so why is the nexus stone make it any less impressive? With the soulreaver Kain can't be killed so how does he kill him?


I disagree they are far ahead by any means. Kain is the greatest of all vampires and he hasn't gotten that much more powerful than he was in blood omen 2.

These guys will basically sword fight it out in the end.



Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
That's still pathetic compared to Ganondorf. Even using feats that you will not contest. What's pathetic? Dorf got beaten by mages and was beaten by Link so what did he do that was so impressive he beats the Hylden Lord here?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Burning thought
Ganondorfs not ripped anyone from what youve shown, infact I am not sure he has any feats at all strengthwise apart from apprently breaking his castle physically (yet to see evidence) and his durability feat is an ambigious lulz worthy claim where Midna uses the fused shadows based on a form he does not usually take.

If Ganondorf stomps this, its not through physicaly power. The Sarafan lord is not impressive physically but teleporting would mean Ganondorf would not have any chance of hitting him with a strike anyway. How is he not impressive physically?

MooCowofJustice
Let's do something different for durability. Follow me now, this might get a little complicated for you.

Midna, using all four Fused Shadows, destroyed the barrier around Hyrule Castle that Zant set in place, and made the whole castle go boom. The Light Spirits are stated to be above these in power. In the final boss fight, Zelda shoots Ganondorf numerous times with Light Arrows, created from the Light Spirits' power. He survived this and went on to fight Link, where he took more hits from the Master Sword before finally being defeated.

Even in your mind, BT, Link is an equal to Kain in Strength. Ganondorf's body is durable enough to keep going after taking multiple hits from that level of strength wielding his weakness. Now add in the light arrows, also a weakness, with a power above the Fused Shadows.

Edit: No Quan, Ganon was not beaten by any mages, lol.

quanchi112
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Let's do something different for durability. Follow me now, this might get a little complicated for you.

Midna, using all four Fused Shadows, destroyed the barrier around Hyrule Castle that Zant set in place, and made the whole castle go boom. The Light Spirits are stated to be above these in power. In the final boss fight, Zelda shoots Ganondorf numerous times with Light Arrows, created from the Light Spirits' power. He survived this and went on to fight Link, where he took more hits from the Master Sword before finally being defeated.

Even in your mind, BT, Link is an equal to Kain in Strength. Ganondorf's body is durable enough to keep going after taking multiple hits from that level of strength wielding his weakness. Now add in the light arrows, also a weakness, with a power above the Fused Shadows.

Edit: No Quan, Ganon was not beaten by any mages, lol. If the Hylden Lord strikes his sword with Dorf's neck off comes his head. Same goes for Dorf and the Hylden Lord. This isn't some gameplay thing where we factor in how many hits does it take.

Mages, sages, whatever.

MooCowofJustice
Yeah, he wasn't beaten by any sages either, lmfao. Did you pay attention when you played the games or was there too much story for you and not enough mindless bloodshed?

You can believe that all you want, but when better things have tried and failed to kill him, that scenario is untrue.

quanchi112
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Yeah, he wasn't beaten by any sages either, lmfao. Did you pay attention when you played the games or was there too much story for you and not enough mindless bloodshed?

You can believe that all you want, but when better things have tried and failed to kill him, that scenario is untrue. Being bfr'd into the twilight realm is beating the guy. I never said they killed him here I said beat him which they did. If you think he wanted to go to the twilight world to take a vacation then you missed something not me.


LOL at there being too much story. This is a series where the main hero doesn't ever speak but instead makes silly looking faces when chatting it up with the ladies.
If Link cut his head off would he live?

Burning thought
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Let's do something different for durability. Follow me now, this might get a little complicated for you.

Midna, using all four Fused Shadows, destroyed the barrier around Hyrule Castle that Zant set in place, and made the whole castle go boom. The Light Spirits are stated to be above these in power. In the final boss fight, Zelda shoots Ganondorf numerous times with Light Arrows, created from the Light Spirits' power. He survived this and went on to fight Link, where he took more hits from the Master Sword before finally being defeated.

Even in your mind, BT, Link is an equal to Kain in Strength. Ganondorf's body is durable enough to keep going after taking multiple hits from that level of strength wielding his weakness. Now add in the light arrows, also a weakness, with a power above the Fused Shadows.

Edit: No Quan, Ganon was not beaten by any mages, lol.

Thats not a fair comparison of power, first of all disabling the barrier around the castle is not the same as a physical feat of damage and the light spirits power being in the light arrows does not mean 100% full spirit power. Canonically, Ganons not taken many hits from the MS and when he is hit, it slices him just like any sword would slice a human. Its not found resistance in his flesh....

Also this is not just physical harm but spiritual from the reaver which devours souls on strike. Which is why the Sarafan lord needed the Nexus stone to save him from the reavers power.

And technically Ganon was imprionsed through the twilight mirror by the sages. Despite having the aspect of surprise on his side as well as their slow reactions.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I do agree the hylden possession is much more impressive than a knocked out zelda, but my point is neither have ever done so while in mid battle against an enemy. The Hylden Lord didn't possess anyone when he physically made the jump to nosgoth only prior to.


Kain had the soulreaver so why is the nexus stone make it any less impressive? With the soulreaver Kain can't be killed so how does he kill him?


I disagree they are far ahead by any means. Kain is the greatest of all vampires and he hasn't gotten that much more powerful than he was in blood omen 2.

These guys will basically sword fight it out in the end.



Why would being mid battle against a foe hinder someone? technically the Hylden lord was across dimentions, surely you can see how thats more of a problem for him which he passed instantly....from a prison he had been in for thousands of years yet instantly he found Janos and possessed him. in this case it would be easy because at least he is on the same plane as Ganondorf, not an entirely different dimension.

the Nexus stone makes him immune to the reavers power as Kain pointed out, the Sarafan lord was not that impressive against Kain other than being immune.

Not gotten much more powerful? what makes you say that? he can fight Raziel for one who is many tonnes times stronger than anyone previously, Raziel has beaten all of his brothers, hordes of soldiers and yet Kain still treats him like a toy. Wheras Blood omen Kain never had to deal with anyone like Raziel, or the Elder God but current Kain did. How can you disagree when we see Blood omen era vampires getting killed by humans and hunteres, their not much stronger than humans tbh, their the similiar physical shape and despite having various powers and higher physical ability their not as impressive as Soul reaver era vampires whos human race use flamethrowers (modern form of Vampires most major weakness) yet are nothing more than an amusing threat to the children of the era.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats not a fair comparison of power, first of all disabling the barrier around the castle is not the same as a physical feat of damage and the light spirits power being in the light arrows does not mean 100% full spirit power. Canonically, Ganons not taken many hits from the MS and when he is hit, it slices him just like any sword would slice a human. Its not found resistance in his flesh....

Also this is not just physical harm but spiritual from the reaver which devours souls on strike. Which is why the Sarafan lord needed the Nexus stone to save him from the reavers power.

And technically Ganon was imprionsed through the twilight mirror by the sages. Despite having the aspect of surprise on his side as well as their slow reactions.



Why would being mid battle against a foe hinder someone? technically the Hylden lord was across dimentions, surely you can see how thats more of a problem for him which he passed instantly....from a prison he had been in for thousands of years yet instantly he found Janos and possessed him. in this case it would be easy because at least he is on the same plane as Ganondorf, not an entirely different dimension.

the Nexus stone makes him immune to the reavers power as Kain pointed out, the Sarafan lord was not that impressive against Kain other than being immune.

Not gotten much more powerful? what makes you say that? he can fight Raziel for one who is many tonnes times stronger than anyone previously, Raziel has beaten all of his brothers, hordes of soldiers and yet Kain still treats him like a toy. Wheras Blood omen Kain never had to deal with anyone like Raziel, or the Elder God but current Kain did. How can you disagree when we see Blood omen era vampires getting killed by humans and hunteres, their not much stronger than humans tbh, their the similiar physical shape and despite having various powers and higher physical ability their not as impressive as Soul reaver era vampires whos human race use flamethrowers (modern form of Vampires most major weakness) yet are nothing more than an amusing threat to the children of the era. Because possessing someone from another dimension is the only manner in which he accomplished it we never once saw him possess someone while in physical form.

What???????? How was he not impressive he beat him. With the soulreaver you can't kill someone so Kain using it against him makes him unbeatable unless you have the nexus stone.


Kain treats Raziel like a toy which is impressive but the Hylen Lord tossed Janos around like a toy as well. Raziel also has fought Kain rather impressively whereas it's a noncontest when Janos shows up to help Kain against him. Two on one to get him the time needed so he could get the reaver which made him unbeatable ye you act like it only matters against Kain and not for him.



Kain formed an empire around him and dominated the humans and the only reason the vampires were beaten by the humans is the actions of Kain uniting all mankind to stand against them. Vorador is about as evolved as he has been and can still be bested by a mob of humans with the right weapons in the right circumstances.

The Hylden would have crushed nosgoth if they had gotten through the point is made throughout the game his army would tear up this soft world.

FinalAnswer
Originally posted by quanchi112
Hahahahaha, how was he pathetic? I can't wait to hear this one.

Pathetic, as in, I have seen nothing impressive from him.

MooCowofJustice
Originally posted by quanchi112
Being bfr'd into the twilight realm is beating the guy. I never said they killed him here I said beat him which they did. If you think he wanted to go to the twilight world to take a vacation then you missed something not me.

I'd hardly call that a real winning action. He killed one of them and comes back later anyway. Lol.

Originally posted by quanchi112
LOL at there being too much story. This is a series where the main hero doesn't ever speak but instead makes silly looking faces when chatting it up with the ladies.

Nah, he talks, they just don't write dialogue for him. Thank you for proving my point about not paying attention at all.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If Link cut his head off would he live?

I dunno. He's survived a sword in the brain before.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats not a fair comparison of power, first of all disabling the barrier around the castle is not the same as a physical feat of damage and the light spirits power being in the light arrows does not mean 100% full spirit power. Canonically, Ganons not taken many hits from the MS and when he is hit, it slices him just like any sword would slice a human. Its not found resistance in his flesh....


Disabling, no, destroying, yes.

Lol? "Hey guys, Zelda needs our help, but let's only put a tiny bit of effort into it. She'll be fine. Trust me!"

Originally posted by Burning thought
Also this is not just physical harm but spiritual from the reaver which devours souls on strike. Which is why the Sarafan lord needed the Nexus stone to save him from the reavers power.


Oh you're still on with that. You know better, BT.

Burning thought
We dont see it but we know it happened as he got rid of Janos audrens body when he put it in the device. Also the Dark entity from BO1 ported into Janos when Kain defeated it as well....so...Ganon cannot beat the Hylden lord, it would possess him even if he managed to destroy its physical form.

Thats not quite true, the nexus stone only weakened the soul reavers power. Technically Kain was easily beatable while the Lord had the stone.

Janos was never as impressive as Raziel, not sure Janos has ever shown it. Janos could teleport sure but when he fought the Hylden lord he simply pushed him back, he was still beaten. Dont forget Raziel also beat the Hylden lord when took control of Janos, he was only destroyed because he could not bring himself to kill Janos Audren.

Thats because in the right cirumstances include Moebius' staff, a special plot device weapon that could cripple a vampire spirtually. The fledlings of the Soul reaver era use advanced humans with flamethrowers as sport wheras Blood omen era vampires get killed by spear/crossbow wielding hunters.

Not sure thats evident considering the ancient vampires (or winged race before the blood curse) who were alike to Janos but not immortal stood up against the Hylden and banished them. Kain is stronger than Janos by far, so is Raziel imo.

quanchi112
Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Pathetic, as in, I have seen nothing impressive from him. Beating Kain, easily taking out Vorador, and tossing janos around like a ragodoll isn't impressive then I guess you think all of bo are is a bunch of wimps.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I'd hardly call that a real winning action. He killed one of them and comes back later anyway. Lol.



Nah, he talks, they just don't write dialogue for him. Thank you for proving my point about not paying attention at all.



I dunno. He's survived a sword in the brain before.



Disabling, no, destroying, yes.

Lol? "Hey guys, Zelda needs our help, but let's only put a tiny bit of effort into it. She'll be fine. Trust me!"



Oh you're still on with that. You know better, BT. They did win as he didn't come back for a lonnnng time. He took out one of them and they banished him until Zant brought him back.


He doesn't talk as we don't see any words written in. he just looks at people as they help progress the storyline. I think the guy needs to start talking and they also need to throw in voice acting and get with the times.


So he failed to survive Link stabbing him yet he could survive an actual beheading?

ScreamPaste
Ganondorf rips the poor bastard in half. erm Spite.

MooCowofJustice
He doesn't talk because we don't see any words written in? That is the worst logic ever. They even write dialog for some characters that literally tells you Link said something. You know, basic stuff like "Oh, so your name is Link?" And no, voice acting means stupid stuff like DMC dialog is a possibility. And terribad voice acting like..I dunno, One Piece? I hear the English version has really bad voice acting.

No, he survived being stabbed through the brain with a sword. What did you read? It sure wasn't what I wrote.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Burning thought
We dont see it but we know it happened as he got rid of Janos audrens body when he put it in the device. Also the Dark entity from BO1 ported into Janos when Kain defeated it as well....so...Ganon cannot beat the Hylden lord, it would possess him even if he managed to destroy its physical form.

Thats not quite true, the nexus stone only weakened the soul reavers power. Technically Kain was easily beatable while the Lord had the stone.

Janos was never as impressive as Raziel, not sure Janos has ever shown it. Janos could teleport sure but when he fought the Hylden lord he simply pushed him back, he was still beaten. Dont forget Raziel also beat the Hylden lord when took control of Janos, he was only destroyed because he could not bring himself to kill Janos Audren.

Thats because in the right cirumstances include Moebius' staff, a special plot device weapon that could cripple a vampire spirtually. The fledlings of the Soul reaver era use advanced humans with flamethrowers as sport wheras Blood omen era vampires get killed by spear/crossbow wielding hunters.

Not sure thats evident considering the ancient vampires (or winged race before the blood curse) who were alike to Janos but not immortal stood up against the Hylden and banished them. Kain is stronger than Janos by far, so is Raziel imo. Kain wasn't easily beatable against the nexus stone it just gave an equal opponent the edge he needed to best him. This has been kain's greatest enemy and he beat him into the dirt for 200 years. That's called barely hanging on.

Beating a possessed janos isn't the same thing as beating the Hylden Lord. That's like saying Link beat a possessed zelda and comparing her to Ganondorf.


The soulreaver vampires assumed power and control whereas the blood omen vampires had as well but were bested by glyph magic, traitors, and the Hylden Lord eradicating them throughout the land. He'd eradicate soulreaver vampires as well.


The Hylden have become more powerful since then whereas the vampires haven't. I mean Kain was the reason they were coming back and needed to implement vampre guardians but look at the device and the demons coming forth the Hylden were superior to the vampires in general save Kain.

I see nothing to prove Raziel is superior to Janos whatsoever. Raziel didn't handle Janos anywhere near as easily as the Hylden Lord further showing how strong and powerful he was.

quanchi112
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
He doesn't talk because we don't see any words written in? That is the worst logic ever. They even write dialog for some characters that literally tells you Link said something. You know, basic stuff like "Oh, so your name is Link?" And no, voice acting means stupid stuff like DMC dialog is a possibility. And terribad voice acting like..I dunno, One Piece? I hear the English version has really bad voice acting.

No, he survived being stabbed through the brain with a sword. What did you read? It sure wasn't what I wrote. Ah Ok i do remember nabooru mocking him his name. Ok, he does talk but they need to actually show his words I think anyways.

This is tp dorf who survived far less like a stabbing yet you claim Link can behead him maybe when he couldn't recover from a stabbing.

quanchi112
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Ganondorf rips the poor bastard in half. erm Spite. Who did he rip in half in tp?

MooCowofJustice
I'll stick to questioning Nintendo for things like Sakurai making Link suck as opposed to questioning what they do with dialog in what is perhaps the best series in gaming.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by quanchi112
Who did he rip in half in tp? He snapped chains strong enough to support the weight of the giant stone slab he was chained to off the ground, if you remember, that's enough strength to rip through the Hylden Lord like he's made of paper.

quanchi112
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I'll stick to questioning Nintendo for things like Sakurai making Link suck as opposed to questioning what they do with dialog in what is perhaps the best series in gaming. Entirely subjective. I think a lot of people myself included think gow blows zelda out of the water. Gow keeps getting better whereas loz doesn't.

quanchi112
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
He snapped chains strong enough to support the weight of the giant stone slab he was chained to off the ground, if you remember, that's enough strength to rip through the Hylden Lord like he's made of paper. Hahahaha, he channeled power after standing there. Hylden Lord easily tosses ancient vampires around whereas Kain at his weakest can rip through armor and tear people's hearts out.

MooCowofJustice
It's hard to improve on the perfection that is OoT. roll eyes (sarcastic)

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by quanchi112
Hahahaha, he channeled power after standing there. Hylden Lord easily tosses ancient vampires around whereas Kain at his weakest can rip through armor and tear people's hearts out. Those are pathetic strength feats next to waking up from being dead and snapping chains strong enough to support a stone which would weigh many hundreds of tons.

quanchi112
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
It's hard to improve on the perfection that is OoT. roll eyes (sarcastic) That was 12 years ago. smile

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by quanchi112
That was 12 years ago. smile
And many still consider it the greatest game of all time, the fact it has such staying power is a testament to how great it is.

Phanteros
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
And many still consider it the greatest game of all time, the fact it has such staying power is a testament to how great it is. You mean one of the great, Many considered Mario 64 as the greatest.

quanchi112
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Those are pathetic strength feats next to waking up from being dead and snapping chains strong enough to support a stone which would weigh many hundreds of tons. He channeled the power from the triforce and was rejected when he tried doing so against Link later. Ripping through armor easily like nothing while straining to break off handcuffs after getting power from the triforce isn't as impressive. kain does so easily at his weakest while dorf had to really work for breaking free from cuffs.

MooCowofJustice
Most people think Galaxy is way better than 64. I can't say, haven't played 64. Really want to though. Galaxy was fun. Except for Luigi. He can get bent. >_>

quanchi112
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
And many still consider it the greatest game of all time, the fact it has such staying power is a testament to how great it is. It's all subjective. I think it's very good but it doesn't seem like the series has progressed at all since then.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by Phanteros
You mean one of the great, Many considered Mario 64 as the greatest. There are a lot of people who consider it the flat out greatest, not saying anyone is more right than the other, just that many people do consider it such. stick out tongue

I do love Mario 64, the N64 was such a great system.

Phanteros
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Most people think Galaxy is way better than 64. I can't say, haven't played 64. Really want to though. Galaxy was fun. Except for Luigi. He can get bent. >_> That's because those people are graphic whores. 64 was a achievement of the decade.

MooCowofJustice
I'm glad I had my PS1 at the time, but it would have been nice to have a 64 for the Nintendo fan I eventually became.

Edit: Nah, people love Galaxy for the physics engine. Impressive visuals certainly help. Both are fun games though, to be sure.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by quanchi112
He channeled the power from the triforce and was rejected when he tried doing so against Link later. Ripping through armor easily like nothing while straining to break off handcuffs after getting power from the triforce isn't as impressive. kain does so easily at his weakest while dorf had to really work for breaking free from cuffs. mariofacepalm

Explain to me why the source of his power matters, his power is still far greater than that of his opponent. The chain was strong enough to support many hundreds of tons, this is an actual feat for the chain, which Ganondorf snaps within seconds of being /dead/. He'd only just recieved the triforce.

Neither Kain nor the Hylden Lord has anything on that strengthwise, and it's on Ganondorf's low end.

ScreamPaste
4KVV9V-vETE You'll see the chains near the beginning of this video, supporting a gigantic freakin obelisk. Ganondorf can snap those with physical strength at his weakest point in the entire game. no expression

quanchi112
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
mariofacepalm

Explain to me why the source of his power matters, his power is still far greater than that of his opponent. The chain was strong enough to support many hundreds of tons, this is an actual feat for the chain, which Ganondorf snaps within seconds of being /dead/. He'd only just recieved the triforce.

Neither Kain nor the Hylden Lord has anything on that strengthwise, and it's on Ganondorf's low end. My point is he needs time to access the power while the dummies just stood there and watched in horror.

Hylden Lord kills him when he tries to access this.

LLLLLink
Originally posted by quanchi112
My point is he needs time to access the power while the dummies just stood there and watched in horror.

Hylden Lord kills him when he tries to access this.

What were they going to do? They had just impaled him with their best weapon while he was bound to the wall. Of course they were horrified.

Also, they did manage to transport him to the Twilight Realm, so they actually did take action.

Anyway, he was just dead, so naturally it might take a moment to access a power you just received right after being 'killed'. It wont happen in the real fight.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by quanchi112
My point is he needs time to access the power while the dummies just stood there and watched in horror.

Hylden Lord kills him when he tries to access this. Uhm, lol? Nah, man, and I'd like to see you try and prove this. no expression

MooCowofJustice
Quan, no, he does not need time for anything. Fact is the Triforce of Power had JUST activated.

Burning thought
There is a point to be had there, when ever Dorf transforms or uses some form of higher power, the triforce shape on his hand glows for a while before anything happens...

And the chains holding the obelisk look larger than those holding Ganondorf, there was also a lot more chain there by the looks of it. Not that the obelisk was necesserily heavy, we dont know what its made from and it did not make much of an impact when it fell and hit the ground. Dorf struggled greatly trying to break a small amount of chain and apprently hes got hundreds of tonnes of strength? I lold...

If thats the best feat he has then I may take back my opinion that the Hylden lord will lose physically.

FinalAnswer
Originally posted by quanchi112
Beating Kain, easily taking out Vorador, and tossing janos around like a ragodoll isn't impressive then I guess you think all of bo are is a bunch of wimps.

Beating Kain in what was essentially a sword fight while wearing the Nexus stone isn't very impressive.

Sure, that's kewl. I forget what happened there, but was it on screen?

And what amazing things has Janos done?

BO2 is essentially filled with a bunch of wimps. It has the weakest characters out of the entire series (BO2 Kain is weakest)

FinalAnswer
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
It's hard to improve on the perfection that is OoT. roll eyes (sarcastic)

There are better games then OoT

wammamram
just what we needed, another bt

Burning thought
Originally posted by FinalAnswer
BO2 is essentially filled with a bunch of wimps. It has the weakest characters out of the entire series (BO2 Kain is weakest)

Thats not entirely true, the Hylden lord himself is hardly a wimp and "the mass" could supposedly kill any being on the planet with a thought and with the glyph energy network, every being on the planet could be killed with a thought at the hyldens command had Kain not destroyed it.

Although I agree that the majority of the BO2 characters are some of the weakest in the series, mainly due to the fact that the council was dead and none of the primary characters had been born yet, and kain has not evolved.

Originally posted by wammamram
just what we needed, another bt

Not quite, but LoK required more supporters what with the influx of LoZ fanboys.

FinalAnswer
Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats not entirely true, the Hylden lord himself is hardly a wimp and "the mass" could supposedly kill any being on the planet with a thought and with the glyph energy network, every being on the planet could be killed with a thought at the hyldens command had Kain not destroyed it.

Although I agree that the majority of the BO2 characters are some of the weakest in the series, mainly due to the fact that the council was dead and none of the primary characters had been born yet, and kain has not evolved.


Compared the other characters in the other games? Hylden Lord isn't as strong.

I thought you would mention that. I dun't really consider the mass a character.

wammamram
Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats not entirely true, the Hylden lord himself is hardly a wimp and "the mass" could supposedly kill any being on the planet with a thought and with the glyph energy network, every being on the planet could be killed with a thought at the hyldens command had Kain not destroyed it.

Although I agree that the majority of the BO2 characters are some of the weakest in the series, mainly due to the fact that the council was dead and none of the primary characters had been born yet, and kain has not evolved.



Not quite, but LoK required more supporters what with the influx of LoZ fanboys.

now that comment i agree on Happy Dance

quanchi112
Originally posted by LLLLLink
What were they going to do? They had just impaled him with their best weapon while he was bound to the wall. Of course they were horrified.

Also, they did manage to transport him to the Twilight Realm, so they actually did take action.

Anyway, he was just dead, so naturally it might take a moment to access a power you just received right after being 'killed'. It wont happen in the real fight. Take action which they did after they came to their senses and took maeausres to banish his red freckled ass.

It took him time to access the power to break free and if it was so instantaneous he wouldn't have waited till he was impaled now would he?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Uhm, lol? Nah, man, and I'd like to see you try and prove this. no expression So he didn't need time to access the power from it so why did he wait until he was impaled and all before he did so? Is he an idiot?

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Beating Kain in what was essentially a sword fight while wearing the Nexus stone isn't very impressive.

Sure, that's kewl. I forget what happened there, but was it on screen?

And what amazing things has Janos done?

BO2 is essentially filled with a bunch of wimps. It has the weakest characters out of the entire series (BO2 Kain is weakest) How isn't it? Kain was unbeatable with the soulreaver so he couldn't win unless he took away that advantage.

Yes, it was midway through his battle with Kain that Janos showed up. Janos is an ancient vampire so I think it's implied he's no weakling. He also handled himself very well against Raziel in defiance albeit possessed.

I disagree entirely. Vorador is a force throughout the series as they all are.

How is blood omen 2 Kain weaker than Blood omen Kain?

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Compared the other characters in the other games? Hylden Lord isn't as strong.

I thought you would mention that. I dun't really consider the mass a character. He bested Kain and blasted Vorador and treated Janos while fighting Kain like an afterthought. The guy's right up there with Kain.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats not entirely true, the Hylden lord himself is hardly a wimp and "the mass" could supposedly kill any being on the planet with a thought and with the glyph energy network, every being on the planet could be killed with a thought at the hyldens command had Kain not destroyed it.

Although I agree that the majority of the BO2 characters are some of the weakest in the series, mainly due to the fact that the council was dead and none of the primary characters had been born yet, and kain has not evolved.



Not quite, but LoK required more supporters what with the influx of LoZ fanboys. I've always loved Kain but Hylden Lord was just a hair behind Kain in my opinion and as intelligence and formidability go it could probably go either way.

LLLLLink
Originally posted by quanchi112

It took him time to access the power to break free and if it was so instantaneous he wouldn't have waited till he was impaled now would he?

So he didn't need time to access the power from it so why did he wait until he was impaled and all before he did so? Is he an idiot?


If you remember, "By some divine prank", Ganondorf was blessed with the power only after he was stabbed.

NemeBro
What physical strength feats does the Lawd have?

Ganondorf physically contested with Link, who tossed Dangoro off the platforum they were on, Dangoro was able to destroy the chains that supported the huge arena with a jump.

Speed feats? Ganondorf at the very least is fast enough to clear several meters in less than a second, and can dodge Light Arrows with ease, even by jumping like thirty feet in the air.

Durability? Ganondorf even without the Triforce of Power was able to tank a large number of Light Arrows, which are able to vaporise any other adversary.

How about destructive capability? Ganondorf has froze over cities, destroyed islands while the bulk of his magic was sealed by the Master Sword, Agahnim, a mere avatar of Ganon, was able to create natural disasters such as floods and earthquakes, and then quell them to pose as a hero to Hyrule. The scale of Ganondorf's power is further shown when he covered all of Hyrule, perhaps the world, cannot recall if specified, in a storm as a display of his power. He was also able to collapse his castle, all while near death.

What does the Lawd have now?

FinalAnswer
Originally posted by quanchi112
How isn't it? Kain was unbeatable with the soulreaver so he couldn't win unless he took away that advantage.

Yes, it was midway through his battle with Kain that Janos showed up. Janos is an ancient vampire so I think it's implied he's no weakling. He also handled himself very well against Raziel in defiance albeit possessed.

I disagree entirely. Vorador is a force throughout the series as they all are.

How is blood omen 2 Kain weaker than Blood omen Kain?

Mebbe because it would nullify the effects of the Soul Reaver, essentially making it a normal sword? =|

Implied.

K.

He has none of his spells (BO Spells > BO2 Spells), his old armor or weapons (Specifically the Soul Reaver).

quanchi112
Originally posted by LLLLLink
If you remember, "By some divine prank", Ganondorf was blessed with the power only after he was stabbed. Yes, and he only accessed it against Link again after he was stabbed to overcome it yet he failed.Originally posted by NemeBro
What physical strength feats does the Lawd have?

Ganondorf physically contested with Link, who tossed Dangoro off the platforum they were on, Dangoro was able to destroy the chains that supported the huge arena with a jump.

Speed feats? Ganondorf at the very least is fast enough to clear several meters in less than a second, and can dodge Light Arrows with ease, even by jumping like thirty feet in the air.

Durability? Ganondorf even without the Triforce of Power was able to tank a large number of Light Arrows, which are able to vaporise any other adversary.

How about destructive capability? Ganondorf has froze over cities, destroyed islands while the bulk of his magic was sealed by the Master Sword, Agahnim, a mere avatar of Ganon, was able to create natural disasters such as floods and earthquakes, and then quell them to pose as a hero to Hyrule. The scale of Ganondorf's power is further shown when he covered all of Hyrule, perhaps the world, cannot recall if specified, in a storm as a display of his power. He was also able to collapse his castle, all while near death.

What does the Lawd have now? This is about tp Dorf and here you go again ranting about other games and other ganons.

Not allowed.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Mebbe because it would nullify the effects of the Soul Reaver, essentially making it a normal sword? =|

Implied.

K.

He has none of his spells (BO Spells > BO2 Spells), his old armor or weapons (Specifically the Soul Reaver). Yes, because if the effects aren't nullified he can't beat the wielder of the reaver. He still bested him in combat, having the nexus stone doesn't equal an auto win.

Do you disagree with him being above average?

it's the same Kain and just because the gameplay changed into an action game that doesn't mean he became less weaker as a character. same character and he had more experience and was wiser and got stomped into yesteryear by the Hylden Lord.

NemeBro
Wait what?

What is this TP Ganondorf bullshit?

Every game, it is the same Ganondorf, why would you take away all of his other feats? So that the Hylden Lord can win?

Not that he does, based on TP feats alone, Ganondorf is still far stronger.

quanchi112
Originally posted by NemeBro
Wait what?

What is this TP Ganondorf bullshit?

Every game, it is the same Ganondorf, why would you take away all of his other feats? So that the Hylden Lord can win?

Not that he does, based on TP feats alone, Ganondorf is still far stronger. Whatever you think on the matter it's moot as this is tp Dorf and many fans disagree. Most just have theories anyways.

Not at all. Him needing to access the power proves it takes time and he only used it to break free from simple cuffs. If he was strong the cuffs should have never held him.

MooCowofJustice
He still thinks all the Zelda games are separate universes, Neme.

FinalAnswer
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, because if the effects aren't nullified he can't beat the wielder of the reaver. He still bested him in combat, having the nexus stone doesn't equal an auto win.

Do you disagree with him being above average?

it's the same Kain and just because the gameplay changed into an action game that doesn't mean he became less weaker as a character. same character and he had more experience and was wiser and got stomped into yesteryear by the Hylden Lord.

And enlighten me, what AMAZING skills does Kain have in swordplay?

Not really.

Not really =|. Kain was stated as to having lost all his former spells and armor.

Except he used none of his powers in the fight, only the Reaver.

Phanteros
So wait performing basic horizontal and vertical strikes is skilled swordplay.

NemeBro
Originally posted by quanchi112
Whatever you think on the matter it's moot as this is tp Dorf and many fans disagree. Most just have theories anyways.

Not at all. Him needing to access the power proves it takes time and he only used it to break free from simple cuffs. If he was strong the cuffs should have never held him. Many fans are idiots.

He was dead. no expression He died, and the Triforce of Power was then granted to him.

This conversation is stupid anyway, Ganondorf merges the area they are fighting in into the Twilight Realm and instantly wins.

The Scenario
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, and he only accessed it against Link again after he was stabbed to overcome it yet he failed.

Let me make a comparison so that this is easier for you to understand. You are aware of what Moebius' staff does, correct? It cancels out vampiric energy. With it, he was able to kill either Janos or Vorador, I don't remember which, and put Kain on his knees before the Heart of Darkness was lost.

Picture this: The Master Sword = Moebius' staff. It cancels out evil energy, as well as Triforce energy if the Triforce is used for evil. Coming into contact with the Master Sword cancels out Ganondorf's power, cutting past his defenses and magic.

Let me ask you, do you think Kain or some other vampire could survive if they were stabbed while Moebius was nearby destroying their power? One vampire was already killed in this way, so I say no. Don't say anything about the Heart of Darkness either; Kain would die if he still had it. The reason Ganondorf's Triforce failed was because he had the equivalent of Moebius' staff embedded in his chest. He had no power, no durabilty, just sheer will that kept him standing, which is better than what Kain did.

Further, you misunderstand how the Triforce of Power even works. It, just like the other peices, works to passively increase his power and he only channels it to transform on occasion. He didn't channel it when he transformed in Twilight Princess, and he only channeled it that first time it was activated, after he was already stabbed.

And to answer your earlier question, yes, Ganondorf could survive getting his head removed. After all, he can survive without a body at all, so why would he need a head, or even a heart? Remember that little fact?

0ex-Cpsnkyo

Without something *coughmasterswordcough* canceling his power, giant god form is as far as most anyone will get before Ganondorf drops a castle buster on their ass.

quanchi112
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
He still thinks all the Zelda games are separate universes, Neme. I haven't played them all yet but in any event it seems all Dorfs don't share the same memories making some alternate versions.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
And enlighten me, what AMAZING skills does Kain have in swordplay?

Not really.

Not really =|. Kain was stated as to having lost all his former spells and armor.

Except he used none of his powers in the fight, only the Reaver. The guy at his weakest is stronger, faster, tougher than any mortal man by a country mile. The guy would crush at the olympics in basically every event. This is something everyone who has played just a game or two understands about Kain and his physical gifts as a vampire and he's the greatest of them all.

The games changed so of course they were't going back to this and he wasn't weaker at all the gameplay mechanics just changed entirely. Kain has always been the kind of guy to kill you with a sword so nothing has really changed.


He didn't use any of those powers to kill Moebius either in the first one so I guess he was weaker then according to your logic.


Originally posted by NemeBro
Many fans are idiots.

He was dead. no expression He died, and the Triforce of Power was then granted to him.

This conversation is stupid anyway, Ganondorf merges the area they are fighting in into the Twilight Realm and instantly wins. The same could be said of you and when you only have theories you have no factual confirmation just your own opinions however popular or unpopular they are it doesn't make them any more factual.



Yes, he accessed it's power and came back into the fight whether he came back to life or not is moot and doesn't matter. The fact is the power failed him against Link.

quanchi112
Originally posted by The Scenario
Let me make a comparison so that this is easier for you to understand. You are aware of what Moebius' staff does, correct? It cancels out vampiric energy. With it, he was able to kill either Janos or Vorador, I don't remember which, and put Kain on his knees before the Heart of Darkness was lost.

Picture this: The Master Sword = Moebius' staff. It cancels out evil energy, as well as Triforce energy if the Triforce is used for evil. Coming into contact with the Master Sword cancels out Ganondorf's power, cutting past his defenses and magic.

Let me ask you, do you think Kain or some other vampire could survive if they were stabbed while Moebius was nearby destroying their power? One vampire was already killed in this way, so I say no. Don't say anything about the Heart of Darkness either; Kain would die if he still had it. The reason Ganondorf's Triforce failed was because he had the equivalent of Moebius' staff embedded in his chest. He had no power, no durabilty, just sheer will that kept him standing, which is better than what Kain did.

Further, you misunderstand how the Triforce of Power even works. It, just like the other peices, works to passively increase his power and he only channels it to transform on occasion. He didn't channel it when he transformed in Twilight Princess, and he only channeled it that first time it was activated, after he was already stabbed.

And to answer your earlier question, yes, Ganondorf could survive getting his head removed. After all, he can survive without a body at all, so why would he need a head, or even a heart? Remember that little fact?

0ex-Cpsnkyo

Without something *coughmasterswordcough* canceling his power, giant god form is as far as most anyone will get before Ganondorf drops a castle buster on their ass. The other sword cut past his defenses and magic as well. Guess what he accessed the power triforce and came back which failed him the next time he tried to do so. If the guy was so above reproach he wouldn't have been impaled by another sword other than the master sword.


Kain wouldn't have died because his role as the scion of balance would keep him alive which is more impressive than the power triforce bringing him back. Kain had the heart ripped out of him which made him the vampire he was and still was in the game whereas Dorf would be nothing without the triforce of power and couldn't survive without it.


If Dorf can easily survive without a head while all the theatrics when he was impaled? Are you saying he wasn't killed? Are you claiming he doesn't need to access the power triforce and that he can survive his head being torn off?

It's also pure speculation he was responsible for the castle destruction considering how powerful Midna was it was a result of both their powers against each other. When we saw Dorf's attacks we didn't see anything near in combat from him capable of easily destroying a castle in battle.

The Scenario
Originally posted by quanchi112
The other sword cut past his defenses and magic as well. Guess what he accessed the power triforce and came back which failed him the next time he tried to do so. If the guy was so above reproach he wouldn't have been impaled by another sword other than the master sword.


No, again. I have explained this before. First, the Sages made both of those swords, the Master Sword and the other one. The Master Sword was made at the direction of the goddesses. Second, they stabbed Ganondorf before he had the Triforce of Power. Hey, Kain was stabbed before he was a vampire, too, and he died, so that's the exact same thing.



Can you prove that one? We don't even know if Ganondorf died there, since he's come back from much worse. I could give you an example of Ganondorf being fine without the Triforce of Power, but alas, that's another game. When the Heart of Darkness was removed, Kain stayed a vampire. Not the same as Ganondorf, who would lose his power.



I already said this. Being in contact with the Master Sword cancels his powers. If Ganondorf's head was removed, it would result in the giant god head form if he wasn't still touching the sword. When Ganondorf was stabbed, the sword remained in him and prevented his power from working. As long as the sword isn't touching him, he's fine.



He kicked Midna's ass six ways to the Sacred Realm. The castle exploded a long time after Midna's attack (you can see a pulse of energy that's colored the same as Midna's attack, but the castle explodes long after that ends), and then Ganondorf was there with her Fused Shadows. His power won, and he destroyed the castle.

Burning thought
Originally posted by NemeBro
What physical strength feats does the Lawd have?

Ganondorf physically contested with Link, who tossed Dangoro off the platforum they were on, Dangoro was able to destroy the chains that supported the huge arena with a jump.

Speed feats? Ganondorf at the very least is fast enough to clear several meters in less than a second, and can dodge Light Arrows with ease, even by jumping like thirty feet in the air.

Durability? Ganondorf even without the Triforce of Power was able to tank a large number of Light Arrows, which are able to vaporise any other adversary.

How about destructive capability? Ganondorf has froze over cities, destroyed islands while the bulk of his magic was sealed by the Master Sword, Agahnim, a mere avatar of Ganon, was able to create natural disasters such as floods and earthquakes, and then quell them to pose as a hero to Hyrule. The scale of Ganondorf's power is further shown when he covered all of Hyrule, perhaps the world, cannot recall if specified, in a storm as a display of his power. He was also able to collapse his castle, all while near death.

What does the Lawd have now?

Contesting with the weaker Kain in the timeline is the Lords only physical feats iirc.

Thats been argued to death, theres no factual high value weight at all concerning these things and Ganon being able to fight Link still does not mean he is of equel or better strength.

Speed is useless when both can teleport and as actual combat fighting goes I have seen little of Dorf thats impressive, after watching the final fight he seems to fight like any normal man save his height bonus.

Your listing things we dont even see, half of those are not useful in an argument when you can never show them, charge times etc.

A sword that can kill Ganondorf in a strike, using powers that Dorf has zero protection against. That, and a teleport that will allow him to get close and escape from any and all "destruction" Dorf will attempt.

Originally posted by The Scenario

Picture this: The Master Sword = Moebius' staff.

As soon as you said this, you were wrong, the MS has no feats of doing this. The only implication is that the sword is more effective than a normal sword at harming evil. Thats it....its never brought an evil entity to its knees just by being in the vicinity, if it has youve not shown it. Ever played Diablo or World of warcraft? theres plenty of weapons with +10 extra damage to demons or another kind of creature so to put it in perspective, the MS has proven that it has +something to fighting evil creatures and considering Ganon seems to come back all the time, its not very good at the job.

Another thing thats interesting about the end of TP is that Ganon wails like a child in agony just by being impaled in the chest by the MS which has not proven that its got any godlike power, only that it slices better.

FinalAnswer
Originally posted by quanchi112
The guy at his weakest is stronger, faster, tougher than any mortal man by a country mile. The guy would crush at the olympics in basically every event. This is something everyone who has played just a game or two understands about Kain and his physical gifts as a vampire and he's the greatest of them all.

The games changed so of course they were't going back to this and he wasn't weaker at all the gameplay mechanics just changed entirely. Kain has always been the kind of guy to kill you with a sword so nothing has really changed.


He didn't use any of those powers to kill Moebius either in the first one so I guess he was weaker then according to your logic.

That's kewl. What else?

Except Umah went and stated Kain was weak and he lost his powers.

No. The fact that the Hylden Lord fought Kain using only the sword, which was gimped by the Nexus Stone, gave the Hylden Lord an easier win.

Phanteros
Originally posted by quanchi112
I haven't played them all yet.... Then why the hell are you even arguing this? Ganodorf is the same character throught the series and only Link and Zelda change.

ScreamPaste
Watching BT and Quan scramble to try and find a way to defend the Hylden Lord is kinda funny. But also wrong.

Ganondorf would kill the Hyldren Lord, Raziel and Kain all at the same time. I'm curious how debating about the source of Ganon's power has any bearing at all, while lulzy.

Ganondorf in TP displays the ability to reflect lightning bolts back at Link, durability beyond retarded (castle busting level), and strength and power to annihilate the Hylden lord, above any feat the lord has. Period.

Burning thought
Your not funny, your just wrong and your constant fanon and ignoring of other characters is just boring now. Ganondorf in truth has shown nothing, literally....his durability is nigh featless and he can be sliced apart by a young man with a Mastersword, a fairly tiny and powerless weapon compared to the soul reaver which will end him permanently. His only saving grace is that he can teleport as well, thats about it.

Weve seen Ganon lieing on his back, wailing in pain after being stabbed in the chest by such a tiny weapon. The Hylden lord with a more powerful weapon and more abilities to utilize such as teleportation can win this.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by Burning thought
Your not funny, your just wrong and your constant fanon and ignoring of other characters is just boring now. Ganondorf in truth has shown nothing, literally....his durability is nigh featless and he can be sliced apart by a young man with a Mastersword, a fairly tiny and powerless weapon compared to the soul reaver which will end him permanently. His only saving grace is that he can teleport as well, thats about it.

Weve seen Ganon lieing on his back, wailing in pain after being stabbed in the chest by such a tiny weapon. The Hylden lord with a more powerful weapon and more abilities to utilize such as teleportation can win this.
haermm

Oh, this is great. We've posted cutscene after cutscene of Ganon being awesome and you claim he's shown nothing? The master sword is tiny? It's a blatant hand and a half with stoccato, and full two hand grip. no expression In total it could be a four feet long or more. erm And by feats, it embarasses the soul reaver.

Link is physicly stronger than anyone in LoK, and the sword is more powerful than any weapon in LoK, so yes, it can hurt Ganon.

The Hylden Lord can literally do nothing to Ganon. He cannot bypass his durability, he cannot escape him, the Hylden Lord is screwed.

Burning thought
You posted a cutscene of struggling to high heavens with some little chains (or did I have to look that up?). Its a poor weapon, if it was not for the extra bonus against evil which tbh is not so evident as I am not sure I have seen it being any more than a normal sword, it would be a normal sword.

A laughable list of lies and some ranting.

One teleport, one slash from the reaver and Ganon drops like a sack, permanently this time.

LLLLLink
Originally posted by Burning thought
You posted a cutscene of struggling to high heavens with some little chains (or did I have to look that up?). Its a poor weapon, if it was not for the extra bonus against evil which tbh is not so evident as I am not sure I have seen it being any more than a normal sword, it would be a normal sword.

A laughable list of lies and some ranting.

One teleport, one slash from the reaver and Ganon drops like a sack, permanently this time.

Lol, the Reaver is a pile of broken metal. It couldn't even handle Raziel, regardless of the reason why. The sword broke. Period. And therefore, it is garbage.

Burning thought
Regardless of the reason why? thats kinda the whole LoZ argument really, thanks for summing it up for me. "regardless of their vast powers that beat down LoZ their still garbage!"..

"sigh", the reaver is vastly more powerful, and thats the mindless one that only rapes souls before enchanted with the balance emblems that make it far more powerful and more useful with time and mental powers.

The MS is a normal sword, thats all we see from it other than a few statements that its "evils" bane and fan wank assuming it protects against things simply because the villain has not used the power.

LLLLLink
Originally posted by Burning thought
Regardless of the reason why? thats kinda the whole LoZ argument really, thanks for summing it up for me. "regardless of their vast powers that beat down LoZ their still garbage!"..

"sigh", the reaver is vastly more powerful, and thats the mindless one that only rapes souls before enchanted with the balance emblems that make it far more powerful and more useful with time and mental powers.

The MS is a normal sword, thats all we see from it other than a few statements that its "evils" bane and fan wank assuming it protects against things simply because the villain has not used the power.

Vastly more powerful? Why? Because it's a sh*tty version of the Soul Edge? Please... Soul Reaver would snap if it crossed with the Master Sword. The MS is LoK series' death sentence incarnate. The damn bottles in LoZ do a better job containing souls than the Soul Reaver. At least they don't break.

Burning thought
The Soul reaver has been considered nigh indestructable, has shown to be able to slice through solid rock and be wielded by Kain against many foes over centuries and its never been harmed, your basis that the MS is going to do anything to the SR is nothing other than that, an empty basis.

The MS is as I said, a normal sword, hell perhaps a little tiny keyblade considering its able to lock into temple alters to seal certain doors.

But once in links hands its a normal sword that can shoot beams now and that....compared to a soul/blood devouring ancient blade that slows time, summons lightning on strike and allows dimentional teleportation.

LLLLLink
Originally posted by Burning thought
compared to a soul/blood devouring ancient blade that slows time, summons lightning on strike and allows dimentional teleportation.

1. Every post reminds us that you know nothing about what you are saying. I'm convinced that you just make stuff up for the sake of arguing.

2. You're trying to compare a broken piece of crap (Soul Reaver) to a weapon that counters omnipotence (Master Sword). erm Stop doing that, please.

Burning thought
1. From someone who knows nothing of LoK vs someone who is an expert, this is laughable.

2. It does not counter ominpotence and never has, its made simply to repel evil if it layed its hands on the triforce, last time i heard the MS never actually repelled the Triforce using its full power against it or is this some fanon assumption? the MS is hopeless.

Go and find me the MS being more than a normal sword, the reavers powers are evident just in the emblems and the fact it eats souls but the MS? whats it even do exactly? its got a cute label of "evils bane" but I have not seen it do much more than what a normal sword would do to a normal man.

LLLLLink
Originally posted by Burning thought
1. From someone who knows nothing of LoK vs someone who is an expert, this is laughable.

2. It does not counter ominpotence and never has, its made simply to repel evil if it layed its hands on the triforce, last time i heard the MS never actually repelled the Triforce using its full power against it or is this some fanon assumption? the MS is hopeless.

1. Lol, you misunderstood, and besides, I've at least beaten 1 LoK game. You have nothing on LoZ, proven by the fact that you frequently spout lies about it's content.

2. Lies. It says so in the LttP manual. We've shown you this already.

Burning thought
1. What lies? all I do is discredit your posts based on what actual video evidence supports.

2. Its never said its defeated the full power of the triforce or a wish made on it, show me it again....LTTP is based on background storyline with knights and sages beat Ganondorf wielding the triforce, fact is the MS is not mentioned. Your the one lieing about it and assuming it was even present.

LLLLLink
Originally posted by Burning thought
1. What lies? all I do is discredit your posts based on what actual video evidence supports.

2. Its never said its defeated the full power of the triforce or a wish made on it, show me it again....LTTP is based on background storyline with knights and sages beat Ganondorf wielding the triforce, fact is the MS is not mentioned. Your the one lieing about it and assuming it was even present.

laughing You aren't even talking about the same instance! Just stop.
Btw, that is a lie from your old mirror, Sin.

Burning thought
Funny how this "lie" is backed up by a lot of sites, unlike your claims of the MS doing anything other than its little low grade powers I have actually seen like reversing curses and shooting little beams. This is all cute and all but its not the same as beating omnipotence which is funny because thats a no limit fallacy and hyperbole itself. The Triforce based on feats is just a larger but weaker version of what three Legacy of Kain circle members created together.

Mortanius was possessed by the Hylden lord, and he is more powerful than the three.

Not important really, this thread is over instantly if Quanchi allows the Hylden lord to possess.

LLLLLink
Originally posted by Burning thought
Funny how this "lie" is backed up by a lot of sites, unlike your claims of the MS doing anything other than its little low grade powers I have actually seen like reversing curses and shooting little beams. This is all cute and all but its not the same as beating omnipotence which is funny because thats a no limit fallacy and hyperbole itself. The Triforce based on feats is just a larger but weaker version of what three Legacy of Kain circle members created together.

Mortanius was possessed by the Hylden lord, and he is more powerful than the three.

Not important really, this thread is over instantly if Quanchi allows the Hylden lord to possess.

laughing Read. The. Manual. It's. Canon. no expression

Burning thought
Yes, I am going to read a manual I dont have from a game I do not possess....

LLLLLink
Originally posted by Burning thought
Yes, I am going to read a manual I dont have from a game I do not possess....

Do I really have to tell you to use the internet, pal? Make sure you have some tissues ready to wipe those tears.

Burning thought
So your telling me I should find your evidence for you? not surprising from a LoZ supporter but you know..thats not how it works and I am not doing it...

Every time I look at LoZ vids by myself just to check on things people have said I see Ganon lieing on the floor wailing like a child from a small cut in his chest or struggling at chains.

LLLLLink
Originally posted by Burning thought
So your telling me I should find your evidence for you? not surprising from a LoZ supporter but you know..thats not how it works and I am not doing it...

Every time I look at LoZ vids by myself just to check on things people have said I see Ganon lieing on the floor wailing like a child from a small cut in his chest or struggling at chains.

I don't need to find it; I'm staring at it right now. roll eyes (sarcastic)
Although, it's funny to watch you run from the evidence while somehow attempting to make us all believe in your competence.

Burning thought
Yes running from evidence, the evidence thats apprently in your hands. Thats not good enough as evidence for this thread tbh, certainly not to back up the wild of Links dinky sword stopping omnipotent power.

LLLLLink
Originally posted by Burning thought
Yes running from evidence, the evidence thats apprently in your hands. Thats not good enough as evidence for this thread tbh, certainly not to back up the wild of Links dinky sword stopping omnipotent power.

Lol, you're denying the Word of God now.
"Hey, Mr. Miyamoto! BT says you're wrong about Zelda!" laughing

Burning thought
Love link club:

"Hey, Mr. Miyamoto! Link can throw aircraft carriers and Ganon can lift thousands of tonnes cant he! oh and the MS can beat infinite power!"

Miyamoto: lol no, maybe if you understood my game you would never come up with rubbish like that...

LLLLLink
Originally posted by Burning thought
Love link club:

"Hey, Mr. Miyamoto! Link can throw aircraft carriers and Ganon can lift thousands of tonnes cant he! oh and the MS can beat infinite power!"

Miyamoto: lol no, maybe if you understood my game you would never come up with rubbish like that...

It's clear that you are just blindly defending your character instead of accepting the truth.

MooCowofJustice
He can spell a Japanese name translated to English but can't use the proper "your." >_>

The Scenario
http://zs.ffshrine.org/album/link-to-the-past/inst-us/z3manual-03-04.jpg

http://zs.ffshrine.org/album/link-to-the-past/inst-us/z3manual-05-06.jpg


http://zs.ffshrine.org/album/link-to-the-past/inst-us/z3manual-03-04.jpg

http://zs.ffshrine.org/album/link-to-the-past/inst-us/z3manual-05-06.jpg

LLLLLink
So.... beautiful....

FinalAnswer
Originally posted by LLLLLink
Vastly more powerful? Why? Because it's a sh*tty version of the Soul Edge? Please... Soul Reaver would snap if it crossed with the Master Sword. The MS is LoK series' death sentence incarnate. The damn bottles in LoZ do a better job containing souls than the Soul Reaver. At least they don't break.

Because a time paradox is totally weak, right?

Dun't really care about what your points, but the Soul Reaver is anything but frail and weak.

LLLLLink
Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Because a time paradox is totally weak, right?

Dun't really care about what your points, but the Soul Reaver is anything but frail and weak.

It's broken.

The Scenario
The Master Sword can kick Time in the balls. Link has participated in many a time loop/paradox.

Heythere,Honey
Triforce isn't omnipotent. no expression

The Scenario
iC0KIrKIEYM

LLLLLink
Originally posted by Heythere,Honey
Triforce isn't omnipotent. no expression

It is omnipotent and omniscient, actually.

Heythere,Honey
But its just a portion of the goddesses.

Eh, gonna stop right here. Dun wanna change the subject. stick out tongue

LLLLLink
Originally posted by Heythere,Honey
But its just a portion of the goddesses.

Eh, gonna stop right here. Dun wanna change the subject. stick out tongue

Too late. stick out tongue

The "portion" part is a translation error. The original japanese goes something like this:

"After forming all that is, when it was time for them to depart this realm, the gods consummated the land with a symbol forged of their own power, in the form of a sacred, golden, triangle: the "Triforce." Their course finally running to completion, the gods left the Triforce to govern this land."

The Scenario
This thread deserves to be derailed before it's too late.

NemeBro
Originally posted by LLLLLink
It is omnipotent and omniscient, actually. No it isn't, it is a portion of the power of three deities who themselves are not omnipotent.

Stop debating. You are so shitty at it that you make the entire Zelda argument look atrocious.

Also, BT, what is this teleport bullshit? No only has Ganondorf shown to be faster than the Lord, but he also has teleportation.

Ganondorf is at least as strong as TP Link, whose strength feats rape anything in LoK, except maybe the Elder God's whole body's strength, whom I would give the benefit of the doubt only due to its supposed size (You say continental, right?).

Ganondorf destroyed his entire castle in TP. Bring up a feat of destruction from the Lord to compare.

As for the Master Sword vs. Reaver argument, its a stupid argument, the Master Sword is much better at what it DOES, destroying and repelling evil power, but the Reaver is far more versatile. Also BT, the Master Sword can in fact protect the wielder from evil magic, it did so in aLttP for instance, protected him from transmutation.

NemeBro
Originally posted by LLLLLink
Too late. stick out tongue

The "portion" part is a translation error. The original japanese goes something like this:

"After forming all that is, when it was time for them to depart this realm, the gods consummated the land with a symbol forged of their own power, in the form of a sacred, golden, triangle: the "Triforce." Their course finally running to completion, the gods left the Triforce to govern this land." "Of their own power."

If I made a shack forged of my own wood, that does not mean I used ALL mah wood mah boi.

It doesn't prove anything, other than that it was made from their own power.

Also, the Goddesses themselves are not omnipotent.

LLLLLink
Originally posted by NemeBro
No it isn't, it is a portion of the power of three deities who themselves are not omnipotent.

Stop debating. You are so shitty at it that you make the entire Zelda argument look atrocious.

Also, BT, what is this teleport bullshit? No only has Ganondorf shown to be faster than the Lord, but he also has teleportation.

Ganondorf is at least as strong as TP Link, whose strength feats rape anything in LoK, except maybe the Elder God's whole body's strength, whom I would give the benefit of the doubt only due to its supposed size (You say continental, right?).

Ganondorf destroyed his entire castle in TP. Bring up a feat of destruction from the Lord to compare.

As for the Master Sword vs. Reaver argument, its a stupid argument, the Master Sword is much better at what it DOES, destroying and repelling evil power, but the Reaver is far more versatile. Also BT, the Master Sword can in fact protect the wielder from evil magic, it did so in aLttP for instance, protected him from transmutation.

Shut the hell up you ignorant donkey. You are using 1) a translation error for your argument, 2) claiming that the goddesses who created "all that is" aren't omnipotent, and 3) ignoring video evidence. Stop humiliating yourself.

NemeBro
Originally posted by LLLLLink
Shut the hell up you ignorant donkey. You are using 1) a translation error for your argument, 2) claiming that the goddesses who created "all that is" aren't omnipotent, and 3) ignoring video evidence. Stop humiliating yourself. 1. Read my post above, you are the one making the assumption, that the Triforce is comprised of all of the Goddesses' power.

2. All that is?

It was said they created Hyrule, nothing more, with Din creating the earth, Nayru creating the laws/physics of the earth, and Farore creating life. They combined their power, to create one planet.

Where is the source for your translation? You cannot just post a quote, give me the link. Because the video if the creation of Hyrule not only states dear boy, but shows a mere planet being created.

3. Ignoring video evidence? You mean the video Scenario posted? Lol hyperbole. I suppose that any character stated to be omnipotent must be. Odin is now omnipotent, I guess the Blade of Olympus is all-powerful as well, so many characters or items have had this claimed, the three Goddesses are not omnipotent, why would their creation be?

Also, keep the insults to a minimum please, it is quite rude to insult your intellectual betters.

Phanteros
Originally posted by LLLLLink
Shut the hell up you ignorant donkey. You are using 1) a translation error for your argument, 2) claiming that the goddesses who created "all that is" aren't omnipotent, and 3) ignoring video evidence. Stop humiliating yourself. Cool rebuttal bro, but the goddess aren't omnipotent because the own power doesn't even suggest and the fact it took 3 to create the earth.

FinalAnswer
Originally posted by LLLLLink
It's broken.

By a time paradox.

A time paradox would destroy the MS too smile

The Scenario
Originally posted by The Scenario
The Master Sword can kick Time in the balls. Link has participated in many a time loop/paradox.

LLLLLink
Originally posted by NemeBro
1. Read my post above, you are the one making the assumption, that the Triforce is comprised of all of the Goddesses' power.

2. All that is?

It was said they created Hyrule, nothing more, with Din creating the earth, Nayru creating the laws/physics of the earth, and Farore creating life. They combined their power, to create one planet.

Where is the source for your translation? You cannot just post a quote, give me the link. Because the video if the creation of Hyrule not only states dear boy, but shows a mere planet being created.

3. Ignoring video evidence? You mean the video Scenario posted? Lol hyperbole. I suppose that any character stated to be omnipotent must be. Odin is now omnipotent, I guess the Blade of Olympus is all-powerful as well, so many characters or items have had this claimed, the three Goddesses are not omnipotent, why would their creation be?

Also, keep the insults to a minimum please, it is quite rude to insult your intellectual betters.

Is this uneducated swine still talking? *sigh* Let me correct you.... again...

1. Congratz, Captain Obvious. erm

2. You are completely and utterly wrong, as usual. Notice that in the very cutscene of creation in OoT, you see Nayru create the heavenly bodies (the sun, if you watch the cutscene). So no, it's not just a "single planet". "All that is" is a direct translation from the Japanese manual of LttP on the matter of Hyrule's creation. The "distant nebula" is nowhere to be found in the Japanese version.

3. You know what the difference is? All of the things you mentioned have been proven that they don't live up to their "omnipotence". Show me one quote or instance where the Trueforce failed to do something and this discussion will be over (assuming you aren't wrong again).

FinalAnswer
Originally posted by The Scenario


Show scans or it didn't happen.

Since everyone likes to use logic and reality and shit to back Link and LoZ's feats up, logically, a godly time paradox would destroy the MS.

Even if it didn't, 5L claiming the SR is crap because it can be broken is stupid, as far superior weapons then the MS and the SR have been broken.

LLLLLink
"As long as you hold the Ocarina of Time and the Master Sword, you hold time itself in your hands..."

"The Master Sword is a ship with which you can sail upstream and downstream through time's river..."

I don't think that Time is an issue for the MS.

NemeBro
Originally posted by LLLLLink
Is this uneducated swine still talking? *sigh* Let me correct you.... again...

1. Congratz, Captain Obvious. erm

2. You are completely and utterly wrong, as usual. Notice that in the very cutscene of creation in OoT, you see Nayru create the heavenly bodies (the sun, if you watch the cutscene). So no, it's not just a "single planet". "All that is" is a direct translation from the Japanese manual of LttP on the matter of Hyrule's creation. The "distant nebula" is nowhere to be found in the Japanese version.

3. You know what the difference is? All of the things you mentioned have been proven that they don't live up to their "omnipotence". Show me one quote or instance where the Trueforce failed to do something and this discussion will be over (assuming you aren't wrong again). 1. So you admit that you were wrong and it was not formed by all their power?

2. I will give you the sun, even though all that was directly stated were the laws. So they created a planet, and a sun. That is not even within a single percentage of the space within a single galaxy, probably not even the solar system actually, and is STILL not sufficient proof of a true, "omnipotent being.". You still have yet to provide a link, or are you fluent in Japanese and able to translate it yourself? All that is could be hyperbole, and all that is could not be very much at all, or most probable, it likely refers to all that is Hyrule. OoT states that the Goddesses descended from the Heavens (Which means something already existed at this point by the way) and turned the chaos that was Hyrule into, well, Hyrule. OoT was the most in-depth explanation for the creation of the world yet, and it shows nothing more than the world, and the sun being created, with the Goddesses then departing back for the Heavens, this is also shown.

3. Three Goddesses had to combine their powers to create the world. no expression That is the proof there, they cannot be omnipotent because they each required eachother's aid to create a single world, and do not try to say that together they are omnipotent, you cannot add up to a sum of infinity without one of the additions being infinite itself.

FinalAnswer
Originally posted by LLLLLink
"As long as you hold the Ocarina of Time and the Master Sword, you hold time itself in your hands..."

"The Master Sword is a ship with which you can sail upstream and downstream through time's river..."

I don't think that Time is an issue for the MS.


All that says is Link can travel through time =|


If Link, say, went back in time and killed whoever made the MS, the MS would cease to exist. Prove it would survive something like that plz.

LLLLLink
Originally posted by FinalAnswer
All that says is Link can travel through time =|


If Link, say, went back in time and killed whoever made the MS, the MS would cease to exist. Prove it would survive something like that plz.
Because according to the split timeline, that would only affect the MS of that timeline's future. The MS of the timeline that "Link" came from would be unaffected. That's what they say, anyway. Anything more than that is a timeline discussion.

FinalAnswer
I have no idea what you just said boi.


In any case, Popeye would punch the MS and turn it into a rubber balloon.

The Scenario
There's the Song of Storms paradox, at least. Guru-Guru teaches it to Link in the future, and claims that green clothed boy taught it to him. Link then uses the Master Sword to go back in time and teach the song to Guru-Guru.

There was also the end of the game game where Zelda sent Link back in time, Sword and all, to warn everyone about Ganondorf. Ganondorf is arrested and the Master Sword never needed to be drawn. That one actually broke time, and there's even a scene of child Link returning the Master Sword to its pedestal.

FinalAnswer
Originally posted by The Scenario
There's the Song of Storms paradox, at least. Guru-Guru teaches it to Link in the future, and claims that green clothed boy taught it to him. Link then uses the Master Sword to go back in time and teach the song to Guru-Guru.

There was also the end of the game game where Zelda sent Link back in time, Sword and all, to warn everyone about Ganondorf. Ganondorf is arrested and the Master Sword never needed to be drawn. That ojne actually broke time, and there's even a scene of child Link returning the Master Sword to its pedestal.


k

k. You've proven point. Congratulations. You just passed your Grade 12 Final.

LLLLLink
Originally posted by NemeBro
1. So you admit that you were wrong and it was not formed by all their power?

2. I will give you the sun, even though all that was directly stated were the laws. So they created a planet, and a sun. That is not even within a single percentage of the space within a single galaxy, probably not even the solar system actually, and is STILL not sufficient proof of a true, "omnipotent being.". You still have yet to provide a link, or are you fluent in Japanese and able to translate it yourself? All that is could be hyperbole, and all that is could not be very much at all, or most probable, it likely refers to all that is Hyrule. OoT states that the Goddesses descended from the Heavens (Which means something already existed at this point by the way) and turned the chaos that was Hyrule into, well, Hyrule. OoT was the most in-depth explanation for the creation of the world yet, and it shows nothing more than the world, and the sun being created, with the Goddesses then departing back for the Heavens, this is also shown.

3. Three Goddesses had to combine their powers to create the world. no expression That is the proof there, they cannot be omnipotent because they each required eachother's aid to create a single world, and do not try to say that together they are omnipotent, you cannot add up to a sum of infinity without one of the additions being infinite itself.

So basically, because the 3 goddesses each had a hand in the creation of their domain, you believe that is grounds to dismiss their combined essence as incapable, huh? They could've combined their power only to show special significance for Hyrule and her people. You don't see such treatment for the sun being created.

Also, space (and the stars therein) was also created by the goddesses. You can see that there is no 'space' or other heavenly bodies during the creation cutscene; only chaos. Heavenly bodies didn't appear until Nayru gave law, so by that evidence, it is easy to believe that if one star was made, that the rest of them were certainly in their domain. But that's my opinion.

Here is a literal translation from the Japanese LttP manual:

"In books left behind for their Hyrulean decendants by the once closest people to the gods, the Hylians (the root word for Hyrule), it is written that the three gods, the "god of power", the "god of wisdom," and the "god of courage," created the state of heaven and earth."

On top of all that, the Trueforce is their combined essence, so that whole point is void anyway.

NemeBro
Originally posted by LLLLLink
Because according to the split timeline, that would only affect the MS of that timeline's future. The MS of the timeline that "Link" came from would be unaffected. That's what they say, anyway. Anything more than that is a timeline discussion. The timeline was split far after the MS' creation. no expression

LLLLLink
Originally posted by NemeBro
The timeline was split far after the MS' creation. no expression

Am I supposed to be getting something from this well-known piece of trivia?

ScreamPaste
This thread was pretty much decided before Quan even made it. I don't know why he believes the Hylden Lord stands any sort of chance. erm Ohwell.

quanchi112
Originally posted by The Scenario
No, again. I have explained this before. First, the Sages made both of those swords, the Master Sword and the other one. The Master Sword was made at the direction of the goddesses. Second, they stabbed Ganondorf before he had the Triforce of Power. Hey, Kain was stabbed before he was a vampire, too, and he died, so that's the exact same thing.



Can you prove that one? We don't even know if Ganondorf died there, since he's come back from much worse. I could give you an example of Ganondorf being fine without the Triforce of Power, but alas, that's another game. When the Heart of Darkness was removed, Kain stayed a vampire. Not the same as Ganondorf, who would lose his power.



I already said this. Being in contact with the Master Sword cancels his powers. If Ganondorf's head was removed, it would result in the giant god head form if he wasn't still touching the sword. When Ganondorf was stabbed, the sword remained in him and prevented his power from working. As long as the sword isn't touching him, he's fine.



He kicked Midna's ass six ways to the Sacred Realm. The castle exploded a long time after Midna's attack (you can see a pulse of energy that's colored the same as Midna's attack, but the castle explodes long after that ends), and then Ganondorf was there with her Fused Shadows. His power won, and he destroyed the castle. He always had the connection to the power he just activated it when he needed to and did so twice. He failed once and succeeded once. Right after he succeeded despite his connections to the triforce he still got bfr'd out of hyrule until Zant decided to back him.
Amy Hennig the series creator stated this
How can Kain survive without the Heart of Darkness?

His nature as the Scion of Balance allows him to survive.

Kain's role as the scion of balance makes him unique and that's why he remained alive and a vampire. Dorf needs an outside power source to remain formidable but like I said it takes time and what he actually did in this game wasn't that impressive.


I don't think he's fine and we saw him wounded by the sages and still defeated though not killed in any event with access to the triforce.

I think the result of her power and his destroyed the castle and anything we saw prior to or after was far less than castel destroying power from Dorf himself.



Originally posted by FinalAnswer
That's kewl. What else?

Except Umah went and stated Kain was weak and he lost his powers.

No. The fact that the Hylden Lord fought Kain using only the sword, which was gimped by the Nexus Stone, gave the Hylden Lord an easier win. He was weak after the Hylden defeated him. He wasn't weakened before when they actually fought and wasn't weakened when he fought him again at the end of the game. Umah saved him from the Hylden because she knew he was still too weak to stand up to him and needed to get him out of the area. The Hylden was hunting him down and he was too headstrong to realize at the time he couldn't beat the Hylden general at this point. When he was back to his full power he was a matchup for the Hylden Lord but never when he was weak. I have no idea why you keep bringing him being weak up because it's a point made in the game Kain needs his strength back to even challenge him.

Originally posted by Phanteros
Then why the hell are you even arguing this? Ganodorf is the same character throught the series and only Link and Zelda change. Listen and listen good I only allow Dorf's feats from this game to count and it's obvious he was clueless about the master sword and a variety of things in this game so don't act like each Dorf has previous memories of everything. It's theory either way

ScreamPaste
No, it is not theory, the reason Ganon in TP didn't remember the events of OoT is they didn't happen in the TP timeline.

Ganon is factually the same guy in every game he's in, period.

Also, lol@castle busting, 'Dorf's a full on island buster who's frozen over entire cities on multiple occasions, and turned off the sun, and created a world wide storm, both with his power severely limmited.

So, whether or not you "allow" them, it's not theory. Also, Ganon still lolrapestomps the poor Hylden boy.

FinalAnswer
Originally posted by quanchi112
He was weak after the Hylden defeated him. He wasn't weakened before when they actually fought and wasn't weakened when he fought him again at the end of the game. Umah saved him from the Hylden because she knew he was still too weak to stand up to him and needed to get him out of the area. The Hylden was hunting him down and he was too headstrong to realize at the time he couldn't beat the Hylden general at this point. When he was back to his full power he was a matchup for the Hylden Lord but never when he was weak. I have no idea why you keep bringing him being weak up because it's a point made in the game Kain needs his strength back to even challenge him.

By the end of BO2, he was still weaker then he was at the end of BO, simply because he didn't have the spells he had in BO. BO spells > BO2 spells. Kain never got those spells back. So no, he wasn't really "back" at fullpower, he simply got newer, albeit weaker spells and I do believe got physically more capable, or something, and managed to defeat the Hylden Lord.

Heythere,Honey
K, now I'm heavily confused with the time paradox talk. x__x

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by Heythere,Honey
K, now I'm heavily confused with the time paradox talk. x__x
Lol, both series contain time paradoxes, but the master sword can actually cause them. cool

quanchi112
Originally posted by FinalAnswer
By the end of BO2, he was still weaker then he was at the end of BO, simply because he didn't have the spells he had in BO. BO spells > BO2 spells. Kain never got those spells back. So no, he wasn't really "back" at fullpower, he simply got newer, albeit weaker spells and I do believe got physically more capable, or something, and managed to defeat the Hylden Lord. He didn't use the spells since that game and the gameplay changed dramatically. I think he is more formidable with his reaver anyways. His strength and power levels were the same and he hasn't used the spells since then throughout soulreaver or any of the games so it's a moot point even if I were to give it to you.

He managed to do so because he had Janos' help and got the reaver back.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
No, it is not theory, the reason Ganon in TP didn't remember the events of OoT is they didn't happen in the TP timeline.

Ganon is factually the same guy in every game he's in, period.

Also, lol@castle busting, 'Dorf's a full on island buster who's frozen over entire cities on multiple occasions, and turned off the sun, and created a world wide storm, both with his power severely limmited.

So, whether or not you "allow" them, it's not theory. Also, Ganon still lolrapestomps the poor Hylden boy. If that Dorf didn't experience the events it's an alternate Dorf. the fact you don't understand timelines is apparent to me. Wow. That's an alternate Dorf so only feats from this Dorf count for him just like I said.

Different dorfs different timelines, sport. When you figure out what an alternate reality is get back to me.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by quanchi112
He didn't use the spells since that game and the gameplay changed dramatically. I think he is more formidable with his reaver anyways. His strength and power levels were the same and he hasn't used the spells since then throughout soulreaver or any of the games so it's a moot point even if I were to give it to you.

He managed to do so because he had Janos' help and got the reaver back.

If that Dorf didn't experience the events it's an alternate Dorf. the fact you don't understand timelines is apparent to me. Wow. That's an alternate Dorf so only feats from this Dorf count for him just like I said.

Different dorfs different timelines, sport. When you figure out what an alternate reality is get back to me.

Nah, it's the same guy. This isn't a case of "alternate universes", it's a case of a legitimate split created /during/ that character's existance by events they took part in.

Link went back to before OoT happened and prevented it, but Ganondorf in the child timeline got the ToP anyway at the same time he touched it in the adult timeline. They're exactly the same.

FinalAnswer
Originally posted by quanchi112
He didn't use the spells since that game and the gameplay changed dramatically. I think he is more formidable with his reaver anyways. His strength and power levels were the same and he hasn't used the spells since then throughout soulreaver or any of the games so it's a moot point even if I were to give it to you.


He didn't use his spells because he was stated to having lost them. Ho mah COD, how many times do I have to tell you? Kain lost those powers, and NEVER was shown using them again, so why do you assume he regained them?

quanchi112
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Nah, it's the same guy. This isn't a case of "alternate universes", it's a case of a legitimate split created /during/ that character's existance by events they took part in.

Link went back to before OoT happened and prevented it, but Ganondorf in the child timeline got the ToP anyway at the same time he touched it in the adult timeline. They're exactly the same. If he didn't experience the events it's an alternate dorf. When timelines spread apart and diverge then each Dorf has his own separate experiences, memories, accomplishments from that point on.

Listen Do not discuss other zeldas in this thread this dorf was ignorant to the master sword so it's another version who didn't experience the previous events in zelda's. That makes him different the only time it's the same character is when he experiences them all himself from game to game but this one didn't.

quanchi112
Originally posted by FinalAnswer
He didn't use his spells because he was stated to having lost them. Ho mah COD, how many times do I have to tell you? Kain lost those powers, and NEVER was shown using them again, so why do you assume he regained them? My point is they did this because they went away from this sort of thing in terms o fgameplay. In your mind ever since he lost his spells he was weaker so you feel bo Kain is greater than all other Kains.

Kain wasn't weaker until he got beat, physically. he didn't have his spells but that doesn't make him weaker it makes him less formidable iyo.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by quanchi112
If he didn't experience the events it's an alternate dorf. When timelines spread apart and diverge then each Dorf has his own separate experiences, memories, accomplishments from that point on.

Listen Do not discuss other zeldas in this thread this dorf was ignorant to the master sword so it's another version who didn't experience the previous events in zelda's. That makes him different the only time it's the same character is when he experiences them all himself from game to game but this one didn't.

The only part of their experiences that actually differentiate are
1. How they end up sealed evil in a can.
2. The world they escape into.
3. The height of the guy in green who puts them back.

^The only difference.

Besides which point, this is still Ganondorf in the beginning of his career. haermm He goes on to continue his reign of awesome in several more games.

Heythere,Honey
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Lol, both series contain time paradoxes, but the master sword can actually cause them. cool
I'mma stay out of this thread for a while then.

And I think Ganondorf wins as I know nothin about his opponent.

FinalAnswer
Originally posted by quanchi112
My point is they did this because they went away from this sort of thing in terms o fgameplay. In your mind ever since he lost his spells he was weaker so you feel bo Kain is greater than all other Kains.

Kain wasn't weaker until he got beat, physically. he didn't have his spells but that doesn't make him weaker it makes him less formidable iyo.

He's weaker because his BO spells are stronger then his BO2 spells. For example, Kain had no soul spells in BO2, as he did in BO. And not true, I believe Defiance Kain is prolly strongest.

He is overall weaker because he had weaker spells or his magic armors he had in BO. If he had those, I would consider BO2 equal, if not superior to BO1 Kain.

Less formidable? Kain is less dangerous in BO2 then he is in BO1. That is solid fact. He has less powers, and the powers he does have are weaker. He doesn't have any magic armor, and doesn't get the Soul Reaver until the end of the game.

quanchi112
Originally posted by FinalAnswer
He's weaker because his BO spells are stronger then his BO2 spells. For example, Kain had no soul spells in BO2, as he did in BO. And not true, I believe Defiance Kain is prolly strongest.

He is overall weaker because he had weaker spells or his magic armors he had in BO. If he had those, I would consider BO2 equal, if not superior to BO1 Kain.

Less formidable? Kain is less dangerous in BO2 then he is in BO1. That is solid fact. He has less powers, and the powers he does have are weaker. He doesn't have any magic armor, and doesn't get the Soul Reaver until the end of the game. So you agree Kain wasn't weak just less formdiable so you just used the wrong word.

Kain didn't need to use any spells and was just as formidable as he always had been since his took up the soulreaver imo.

I disagree, he is wiser, stronger, and more experienced with his abilities than in bo1.

He has it at the beginning with his fight with Hylden and at the end when Janos distracts him long enough to get it.

quanchi112
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The only part of their experiences that actually differentiate are
1. How they end up sealed evil in a can.
2. The world they escape into.
3. The height of the guy in green who puts them back.

^The only difference.

Besides which point, this is still Ganondorf in the beginning of his career. haermm He goes on to continue his reign of awesome in several more games. This dorf didn't experience them which makes him different than the Dorf who did. This is what makes an alternate reality.

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