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What would happen if Yoda let Obi wan face Sidious and Yoda faced Anakin?

Anakin dead, Obi-Wan dead.

Bad things... Kenobi dead, Yoda wouldn't find Anakin... But if he did it could go either way.

IF Yoda found Anakin, heres what I think would happen.
Obi Wan would get to the chacnelloers office when Yoda gets to Mustafar, and Obi Wan is quickly killed. Then, the empereor goes to help Anakin, who is fighting Yoda. The two are equally matched since Yoda didn't teach Anakin like Obi Wan he doesn't have that advantage.When Sidious arrvies, he and Anakin quickly defeat Yoda. BUT they're is another possibillity. IF Yoda convinced Anakin to turn back(which he could probally do), they would go to fight Sidious, and they might be able to save Obi Wan. If that happend, the Galaxy could be saved.

Yoda's superior command of the Force and frankly superior experience in lightsaber dueling would overwhelm Anakin long before Palpatine could intervene. Not to mention... Palpatine can't teleport.

He got there really fast to save Anakin last time,so he could do it again.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Yoda's superior command of the Force and frankly superior experience in lightsaber dueling would overwhelm Anakin long before Palpatine could intervene. Not to mention... Palpatine can't teleport. Mother****er can too.

Gideon said so.

Originally posted by Zack Skywalker
He got there really fast to save Anakin last time,so he could do it again. What we saw was a scene jump to another with no indication of how much time had lapsed. Movies do it all the time.

It all depends on the enivorment Yoda and Anakin are in in the duel. If they stay on the landing platforrm, Anakin will hold him long enough for Sidious to arrive. Ankain could win if it's strictly lightsabers, but if it comes to force, Yoda pwns. Then if Yoda wins, he fights Sidious, and that could go either way.

From Wookiee:

While generally determined by the distance between two planets, hyperspace travel times between two locations seemingly close to one another could be drastically extended by the need to navigate around stellar hazards, such as asteroid fields and nebulae.

An example of this is the journey from Coruscant and Alderaan. In terms of distance, Alderaan was very near to Coruscant. However, it required 16 hours of travel to reach Alderaan due to a section of the route crossing through a part of the largely-uncharted Deep Core which is star-choked and therefore more difficult to navigate in due to its many gravity wells. Ironically, then, it was actually faster to get from Tatooine to Alderaan on the other side of the galaxy. In some cases, intragalactic travels could take days, depending on the distance between two planets and the obstacles between.


There is absolutely no way, NO way, that Anakin is going to survive a duel with Yoda long enough for Palpatine to travel from Coruscant to Mustafar.

Originally posted by Zack Skywalker
It all depends on the enivorment Yoda and Anakin are in in the duel. If they stay on the landing platforrm, Anakin will hold him long enough for Sidious to arrive. Ankain could win if it's strictly lightsabers, but if it comes to force, Yoda pwns. Then if Yoda wins, he fights Sidious, and that could go either way.

WTF!!! No, No, NO!!! bash Are you dumb, or do you just act that way? No offense intended, but... it had to come out.

Anakin is no where near Yoda in sabers, friendo.

I disagree. If Anakin is in "teh z0ne" I believe he could match Yoda in a saber duel (I doubt he is going to be fighting Yoda in a similar mentle state that he fought Obi-wan as he loved Kenobi). He humiliated Dooku in ways Yoda never could. Hell after the duel Anakin looks refreshed, Yoda is gasping for air. Also Yoda is going to have a hard time deflecting Anakin's superstrong attacks, what with how old and frail he is.

z0ne Anakin would fare better, but if this is the Anakin (Vader) that Kenobi fought, absolutely not.

Originally posted by ares834
I disagree. If Anakin is in "teh z0ne" I believe he could match Yoda in a saber duel (I doubt he is going to be fighting Yoda in a similar mentle state that he fought Obi-wan as he loved Kenobi). He humiliated Dooku in ways Yoda never could. Hell after the duel Anakin looks refreshed, Yoda is gasping for air. Also Yoda is going to have a hard time deflecting Anakin's superstrong attacks, what with how old and frail he is.

True, but what if it never gets to sabers and Yoda just pwns Anakin with the force. Also what Lord Lucien said, "teh zOne" Anakin might be a challange in sabers, but this is Vader so he gets beaten.

Originally posted by ares834
I disagree. If Anakin is in "teh z0ne" I believe he could match Yoda in a saber duel (I doubt he is going to be fighting Yoda in a similar mentle state that he fought Obi-wan as he loved Kenobi). He humiliated Dooku in ways Yoda never could. Hell after the duel Anakin looks refreshed, Yoda is gasping for air. Also Yoda is going to have a hard time deflecting Anakin's superstrong attacks, what with how old and frail he is.

Typically, if it's "T3h Z0n3 An4kin", it's specified in the original post. In this case, it isn't (unless there's an amendment). So... Anakin no equal little green Yoda. Also, although "T3h Z0n3 An4kin" humiliated Dooku, I'm not sure he would fare positively against Master Yoda in a saber duel. The difference in styles as well as other circumstances (possibly) lead to Dooku's demise against the Chosen One. I do however think that he could battle Yoda to a draw if it were to remain a saber only battle. But Yoda would rape him once he decided to utilize the Force.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Typically, if it's "T3h Z0n3 An4kin", it's specified in the original post. In this case, it isn't (unless there's an amendment). So... Anakin no equal little green Yoda. Also, although "T3h Z0n3 An4kin" humiliated Dooku, I'm not sure he would fare positively against Master Yoda in a saber duel. The difference in styles as well as other circumstances (possibly) lead to Dooku's demise against the Chosen One. I do however think that he could battle Yoda to a draw if it were to remain a saber only battle. But Yoda would rape him once he decided to utilize the Force.

Thats why I said they were equal in Sabers and it depended on the envirment. If they got in a enviorment where Yoda could pwn Anakin with the force, he would

Originally posted by Zack Skywalker
Thats why I said they were equal in Sabers and it depended on the envirment. If they got in a enviorment where Yoda could pwn Anakin with the force, he would

wtf

What kind of environment?

On Mustafar, theyre are a bunch of envirments they could be fighting through, and if they stayed on the landing platform thats more of a lightsaber place, but if they went through the buildings theyde have moe tings to utilize with the force

Yoda doesn't need any buildings to stab Anakin's brain inside his head with a wave of his hand.

^ That is very true

What if Yoda just tosses Ani off the platform?
Besides, take Yodas size into account and imagine hitting that while its jumping around and trying to kill you

Yea,I'm not saying anakin would win, I'm saying he would put up a decent fight. Yoda=Anakin with the lightsaber, but with the forece Yoda>>>>>>>Anakin

Originally posted by Zack Skywalker
Yea,I'm not saying anakin would win, I'm saying he would put up a decent fight. Yoda=Anakin with the lightsaber, but with the forece Yoda>>>>>>>Anakin

lolshit

I have always thoght that Operation: Knightfall Vader=in teh z0ne Anakin. This is due to the way he effortlessly beat Drallig one handed and some off his force feats in the vido game cutscenes. Against Kenobi he fought like shit because he was conflicted. Against Yoda he likely wouln't have that problem. Also I doubt Yoda would just pwn Vader with the force. If it was that easy Dooku would have done it in ROTS. Yes I still think Yoda would beat him with the force, but Yoda uses the force for defense never for attack. Really he mostly reflects attacks and doesn't just come in sending objects flying... He pushes the Emperor once, otherwise he just reflects Sidious/Dooku's attacks.

Yoda would win, but Anakin would take much longer to defeat since Anakin is about as good with the saber as Yoda. Once Yoda had a oppurtunity, he would own him with the force, unless Sidious got there in time to help. If Sidiou took a while to get there, Yoda has time to pwn Anakin with the force. Then if Sidious takes a while, Yoda would have time to regenarate and beat sidious if he didn't manipulate the envorment. If he did, they fight to a draw, and Yoda flees

You speak of being "as good as", and "got there in time" and "regenarate" like you're playing Call of Duty.

Originally posted by ares834
I I doubt Yoda would just pwn Vader with the force. If it was that easy Dooku would have done it in ROTS.

Yet Yoda>Dooku, if not Yoda >>Dooku in the force. What Dooku couldn't do (maybe he could but didn't go for it?), Yoda might be able to do with ease.

Originally posted by ares834
I Yes I still think Yoda would beat him with the force, but Yoda uses the force for defense never for attack.

True, but when he uses it offensively he totally embarrasses Ventress, the same Ventress who was always a good match for Anakin, saber and force wise.

Originally posted by ares834
I Really he mostly reflects attacks and doesn't just come in sending objects flying... He pushes the Emperor once,

And puts the most powerful Sith ever on his ass, mind you.

Originally posted by ares834 I
he just reflects Sidious/Dooku's attacks.

Yoda was never going all out with Dooku. Big difference. Also he was evenly matched with Palpatine, and Anakin is no Palpy.

He will be in a couple of weeks.

K.

Originally posted by axel_jovan
Yet Yoda>Dooku, if not Yoda >>Dooku in the force. What Dooku couldn't do (maybe he could but didn't go for it?), Yoda might be able to do with ease.
Key word might.

When did he use offensive force powers against her? He blocks her sabers with the force. Its impressive but not very aggressive. ANyway Padawan Anakin was a match for Ventress, in teh z0ne Anakin would dominate her.


Because he was laughing his ass off and was caught by surprise. It is impressive but not enough to guarentee a win for Yoda.


Proove that he wasn't going all out on Yoda. Hell he was gasping for breath when he said how powerful Dooku became.

No doubt. But just because Anakin is not a match for Palps doesn't mean he is not a match for Yoda. The way he puts Dooku on his ass is amazing. The novel itself makes it clear that there was simply no chance for Dooku and that he was powerless before Anakin. This is the same Dooku who has held his own against Yoda twice. Now I'm not saying that Anakin would win against Yoda every time, but that he could get some wins.

What if Sidious decides to act arrogant like he often does and decides to battle Obi Wan in a lightsaber duel? He'd be unable to break through Obi Wan's defenses and would eventually have to resort to offensive Force moves. By that time Yoda would have defeated Anakin (aka Vader). Sidious might take a while to get there, in which case Yoda can prepare for the confrontation. Sidious will duel Yoda, in which case it would be a toss up. Yoda would probably win, unless if he happens to be too close to the lava if Sidious uses his Force lightning.

It might have made more sense for Yoda to bring Obi Wan with him to confront Sidious. They could tactically/strategically prepare and position themselves in a way that Sidious can't just one shot Obi Wan. In that case Sidious would likely lose.

Originally posted by ares834
Key word might.
It's speculation indeed, yet highly probable.

Originally posted by ares834
ANyway Padawan Anakin was a match for Ventress, in teh z0ne Anakin would dominate her.

Key word would. Its very likely, but who knows.

Originally posted by ares834
Because he was laughing his ass off and was caught by surprise. It is impressive but not enough to guarentee a win for Yoda.

Agreed, yet it shows how powerful Yoda is. I don't think teh Zone Anakin could hope to replicate such feat against Sidious.

Originally posted by ares834
Proove that he wasn't going all out on Yoda. Hell he was gasping for breath when he said how powerful Dooku became.

Gasping for air is hardly an indication of anything. If my memory serves me right it was mentioned in the Rots novel (maybe I'm mistaken, it's been years since I read it). Also in Dark Randevous Yoda starts the fight with Dooku with words along this one: "I'm not going to hurt you" or sth. I'm positive it has been established on this very forum that Yoda was not going for the kill in his confrontations with Dooku.

I don't think the chances are large even if it was just a lightsaber duel that Anakin would go down before Obi Wan. The reason Obi Wan did so well against Anakin was he taught him and Anakin was conflicted. If he fought Yoda, Yoda wouldn't have that advantage and it would be a decent fight before Yoda took down Vader, which i say would happen 7/10 times. Obi wan would go down super quick to Sidious, and Sidious would then go to confront Yoda unless somehow Anakin one because he was in t3h z0n3.

Ahh, sorry for double posts.

Originally posted by ares834
The way he puts Dooku on his ass is amazing. The novel itself makes it clear that there was simply no chance for Dooku and that he was powerless before Anakin. This is the same Dooku who has held his own against Yoda twice.

True. Indeed, Dooku got ****ed. Yet again, he is not as powerful as Yoda. Also it was stated that his defeat was due to the weakness of his lightsaber style (?) It may be also speculated that his orders were not to kill Anakin (sth along this lines was argued here if I remember correctly).

Originally posted by ares834
Now I'm not saying that Anakin would win against Yoda every time, but that he could get some wins.

I think this nicely sums up our argument, So actually we agree on the outcome of this fight. I'm willing to agree that teh Zone Anakin will be a worthy opponent for Yoda in sabers. In teh force, idk, I just don't see it. So all out lets say 7/10 for Yoda and call it a day.

BTW. I'm going on a trip tomorrow, and probably will have no access to the internet. If you want to adress my post I will be able to respond in like 3 days.

Originally posted by Zack Skywalker
I don't think the chances are large even if it was just a lightsaber duel that Anakin would go down before Obi Wan. The reason Obi Wan did so well against Anakin was he taught him and Anakin was conflicted. If he fought Yoda, Yoda wouldn't have that advantage and it would be a decent fight before Yoda took down Vader, which i say would happen 7/10 times. Obi wan would go down super quick to Sidious, and Sidious would then go to confront Yoda unless somehow Anakin one because he was in t3h z0n3.

In a lightsaber duel with no offensive Force powers being used, Obi Wan might last quite a while against Sidious. Obi Wan was capable of blocking over 20 strikes per second, and I doubt that Sidious could strike faster than that. Oh, and Yoda would likely beat Anakin far more often than 7/10.

Originally posted by axel_jovan
Key word would. Its very likely, but who knows.
It's not simply a possability. In teh z0ne Anakin is well beyind Ventress.



No he wouldn't. But then Anakin is not yet known for his force prowess but his skill with his saber.


It indicates exhastion, strain, and in this case a hard fight.

The exact line is "Wish to hurt you, I do not!" Meaning that Yoda does not want to hurt Dooku but if he is forced to he will.

IF it is it is a fanon idea with no support behind it. In fact onGeonosis they were stated as equals. "Vividly his mind went back to their last meeting, on Geonosis: swords drawn at last, and finally equal. What a bittersweet moment-to see Yoda again, and be a match, or more than a match for him..."


Meh. Any lightsaber style would wither before Anakin's blows. Infact Makashi isn't intended to meet a duelest blow for blow but he was forced to against Anakin's onslaught. And yes according to LoE Dooku was not supposed to kill Anakin but was supposed to go his hardest on him.

^ I'll address the Dooku vs. Yoda thing later.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
What if Sidious decides to act arrogant like he often does and decides to battle Obi Wan in a lightsaber duel? He'd be unable to break through Obi Wan's defenses and would eventually have to resort to offensive Force moves. By that time Yoda would have defeated Anakin (aka Vader). Sidious might take a while to get there, in which case Yoda can prepare for the confrontation. Sidious will duel Yoda, in which case it would be a toss up. Yoda would probably win, unless if he happens to be too close to the lava if Sidious uses his Force lightning.

It might have made more sense for Yoda to bring Obi Wan with him to confront Sidious. They could tactically/strategically prepare and position themselves in a way that Sidious can't just one shot Obi Wan. In that case Sidious would likely lose.

What you are referring to is http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dun_M%C3%B6ch

It WOUlD be smarter for Obi Wan and Yoda to face sidious together, then face Vader. They could kill the empereor and probally at that point convince Anakin to come back, or easilly kill him.

The argument that Yoda and Dooku were on par or equals was something that was perpetuated by pro-Dooku fanboys or partisans who smothered the rest of us with their Christopher Lee fetish. Attack of the Clones saw the Count and Yoda engage in two contests, one of the Force and one of blades. Dooku, to my knowledge, attacked Yoda two or three times with telekinesis and Force lightning, with Yoda casually deflecting them all; Yoda only "attacked" Dooku once in the Force contest, by deflecting the lightning back to him. If Yoda had really attempted to subdue or kill the Count, wouldn't he have responded in kind every time? Furthermore, the fact that Yoda chose to rescue Kenobi and Skywalker -- making the same choice that Mace later lamented in Shatterpoint -- is further indicative that he was not yet prepared to kill his former apprentice. Yoda, like Mace, was too clouded by personal attachment and respect for Dooku to kill him.

Dark Rendezvous takes place on Vjun, in which Dooku's dark side powers are greater than what they would be on a Force-neutral world. And despite attacking Yoda through cunning, trickery, and manipulation, he is unable to overcome Yoda in combat; it is Dooku who is fatigued by the effort, it is Dooku who retreats, even though Yoda spent the majority of the fight attempting to avoid killing the Count ("Wish to hurt you, I do not!".

This, coupled with the Count's enormous fear of Darth Sidious and his powers, indicates quite clearly that however talented and prodigious Dooku is, he's not on the same level as either of his Masters.

My point has never been to claim that Dooku was Yoda's equal simply that Anakin trashed Dooku and that Dooku held his own against Yoda. Yes it came out that way, but my quote was simply to show that the two were comparable on Geonosis. In fact earlier on I pointed out that Yoda does not seem to use the force offensively and uses it to defend himself.

Originally posted by Gideon
Furthermore, the fact that Yoda chose to rescue Kenobi and Skywalker -- making the same choice that Mace later lamented in Shatterpoint -- is further indicative that he was not yet prepared to kill his former apprentice. Yoda, like Mace, was too clouded by personal attachment and respect for Dooku to kill him.

I disagree. Yoda chose to stop the pillar because he wanted to save Kenobi and Skywalker, not because he wanted Dooku to escape so he wouldn't have to kill him. Yoda has always had a deep found respect for life. Still I do think Yoda had a personal attachment to Dooku, but I don't think it would ever cause him to hold back in a saber fight. Intrestingly enough Dooku expresses personal attachment for Yoda in Y: DR.

There is a chapter in Stover's novelization (I don't have it on hand, so someone may have to corroborate this) in which Kenobi and Yoda discuss the Jedi's way of sacrifice. Kenobi states that despite the deep relationship between himself and Yoda, if Yoda's death would bring the Clone Wars one day closer to its end, he would sacrifice Yoda for the greater good. Yoda's response is that he would do the exact same thing.

This does not undermine one of your points (Yoda's reverence for life), but instead serves to turn it against your conclusion. If Yoda had not shown restraint and continued to attack the Count, either killing him or capturing him, he would have actually saved a lot more lives in the long run. What Yoda did was beautifully ironic in that even he could not escape the attachment and affection he held for his prized pupil.

I'm sorry, but the examples are manifold: Yoda shows incredible restraint against the Count in both of their conversations, and despite certain advantages, Dooku is forced to retreat each time.

Had Yoda gone after Dooku like he did Sidious, then the Count wouldn't have stood a chance. There's simply too great of a gap between them.

Yes, Yoda managed to defeat Dooku in both their contests I am not disputing that and had Yoda gone after Dooku, Dooku would have died but in both of these battle Dooku managed to hold his own. Something he was unable to do against Anakin.

Ok I will agree, Yoda did have his personal attachment get in the way but it doesn't mean he held back, simply that he didn't have the power to completley finish it. Even if we accept the fact that Yoda was holding back against his pupil he still worked hard enough to be visibly exhausted after the saber battle.

In response to teleportation: Since no date has been ascribed to precisely when Sidious discovered the Force storm ability, it can be assumed Sidious would be capable of transporting himself to Mustafar if the event preceded ROTS. Of course, since Sidious has only been witnessed making use of Force storms circa 10 ABY, many would assert that the ability is exclusive to that era.

Originally posted by Elok Quintly
In response to teleportation: Since no date has been ascribed to precisely when Sidious discovered the Force storm ability, it can be assumed Sidious would be capable of transporting himself to Mustafar if the event preceded ROTS. Of course, since Sidious has only been witnessed making use of Force storms circa 10 ABY, many would assert that the ability is exclusive to that era. DE Palpatine also stated that he was stronger then he'd ever been. So yeah, I think it's logical to assume manifesting force storms was an ability he could only achieve at that level of power.

Palpatine also stated that everything that transpired during his rise to power proceeded according to his plan, that he foresaw Maul's demise, and that he is the embodiment of the dark side of the Force itself.

Well then Palpatine is a dirty liar. IIRC he initially did not know of the clones and as we see in TPM novel he did not forsee Maul's demise. In fact he wonders how Maul died when he was more than a match for the two Jedi and even expreses some regret over his death.

Originally posted by Elok Quintly
Palpatine also stated that everything that transpired during his rise to power proceeded according to his plan, that he foresaw Maul's demise, and that he is the embodiment of the dark side of the Force itself. Okay..?

Originally posted by Galan007
DE Palpatine also stated that he was stronger then he'd ever been. So yeah, I think it's logical to assume manifesting force storms was an ability he could only achieve at that level of power.

Unfortunately, assertions based on your own twisted logic are invalid.

Originally posted by ares834
Well then Palpatine is a dirty liar. IIRC he initially did not know of the clones and as we see in TPM novel he did not forsee Maul's demise. In fact he wonders how Maul died when he was more than a match for the two Jedi and even expreses some regret over his death.

He is. Remember when he lied about being to weak to kill Windu?

Originally posted by Shoes




He is. Remember when he lied about being to too weak to kill Windu?

your grammars is failed.

Originally posted by truejedi
your grammars is failed.

Spelling is not grammars.

Your right, you just fail in general

Originally posted by Shoes
Unfortunately, assertions based on your own twisted logic are invalid.

Prove Sidious learned the power at DE.

Originally posted by Shoes
Prove Sidious learned the power at DE. Prove he didn't.

Originally posted by Shoes
Prove Sidious learned the power at DE.

There were numerous situations in which Sidious could have used that power and didn't. One can assume that he didn't learn it until DE.

Yoda beats Anakin and Sidious beats Obi Wan.

If Yoda goes to confront Sidious, then it's a toss up, with a slight edge to Yoda.

If Sidious goes to confront Yoda, then it's still a toss up with a slight edge to Yoda.

He could have very well learned it at the end of ROTJ, and simply not use it.

Originally posted by Galan007
Prove he didn't.

You made the claim.

Originally posted by Galan007
Anakin dead, Obi-Wan dead.

You're comparing CWC to the movies? I don't care if the CWC is canon all it does is Overpower the good guys and make the bad guys look like chumps, Ahsoka dealt with three Magnaguards, a padawan. Anakin put Dooku on his ass and Mace tears through a planet of droids.

CWC screws canon really as if Mace could do that before why didn't he do it on Geonosis.

Like it or not, CWC is canon.

Though I agree, it really seems over the top sometimes.

Originally posted by Shoes
He could have very well learned it at the end of ROTJ, and simply not use it.



You made the claim.

What? Why would Sidious learn such a technique and not use it when he could have done so many times and it would have helped him? Is he really that stupid?

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
There were numerous situations in which Sidious could have used that power and didn't. One can assume that he didn't learn it until DE.

Yoda beats Anakin and Sidious beats Obi Wan.

If Yoda goes to confront Sidious, then it's a toss up, with a slight edge to Yoda.

If Sidious goes to confront Yoda, then it's still a toss up with a slight edge to Yoda.
Yoda has the advantage why? What evidence do you have to reach that conclusion? I would hope something other than "facial expressions".

Furthermore, there are plenty of situations that warranted the utilization of Force storms during the events of Dark Empire II and Empire's End. Are you going to claim that Sidious somehow lost the ability to conjure storms simply because he neglected to make use of the power? The logic you're using to bolster your assumption is fallacious in that regard.

Originally posted by Elok Quintly
Yoda has the advantage why? What evidence do you have to reach that conclusion? I would hope something other than "facial expressions".

Furthermore, there are plenty of situations that warranted the utilization of Force storms during the events of Dark Empire II and Empire's End. Are you going to claim that Sidious somehow lost the ability to conjure storms simply because he neglected to make use of the power? The logic you're using to bolster your assumption is fallacious in that regard.

Yoda disarmed Sidious, which is apparently confirmed. Yoda therefore would have won had he not by chance had been too close to the edge of the Senate pod. In an even battle, Yoda has an advantage over Sidious.

What I was saying about the Force storm ability is that Sidious never used it during the OT period (or did he?). There is no evidence that he knew it by that time and he could have benefited from using it but didn't.

He could have benefited from using it post-DE as well, and yet he did not use it. Sidious was seen flying in TFU and Sithisis, yet he did not do so in ROTS and ROTJ--both events in which the power would definitely have come in handy.

Palpatine's disarmament is depicted in two sources that conflict with two other sources of equal canonicity. Take from that as you will. I'm not going to bother pointing toward all the sources that explicitly declare Sidious's superiority over Yoda, as they seem to be flippantly disregarded.

I'm willing to concede the idea that Yoda was the superior swordsman in terms of technical ability and aptitude as of Revenge of the Sith, since there is absolutely zero indication or implication that the Emperor maintained his swordsmanship as Supreme Chancellor -- he tells Vader in the Rise of Darth Vader that a true Sith has very little use for a lightsaber other than simply "to humiliate Jedi" (presumably by using their own weapons against them) -- whereas Yoda had time and inclination to maintain his skills, not to mention the frontline experience with which to wield them.

I'll also concede the idea that Yoda disarmed Sidious.

What I won't concede is how the disarmament is portrayed in the screenplay; the scene depicts Yoda clearly holding the upper hand, defeating both the Emperor's assaults with the lightsaber and Force lightning, but then Yoda retreats for absolutely zero reason. This is in direct conflict with Yoda's motivation (to kill Palpatine, not play a game of catch-and-release) that was depicted in all of the canon mediums. Accepting that would not only defy all common sense and relegate Yoda to the status of utter moron, but also contradict G-canon "Destroy the Sith, we must!"

He backed off to admire Palpatine's fine gabardine cloak.

There is no source that claims Sidious let his skills go to the wayside either--only that he kept a lightsaber within a neuranium statue of Sistros for a considerable amount of time. Seeing as to how he possessed more than one blade, that evidence is moot. I could just as easily claim Sidious was a master of Jar'Kai since he crafted two different lightsabers.

The degradation of foes is more than enough of a motivator for Palpatine to maintain his skill. I care more for spawn camping with a tank in Star Wars: Battlefront than I do combatting my foes on foot, yet I make a conscious effort to maintain my infantry skill so as to further humiliate naysayers.

Quite frankly, I find this line of thought to be firmly within the realm of ridiculous. When would Palpatine have the time to maintain his fighting skills? In case you've forgotten, not only was he the political leader of a galaxy-spanning regime, he was also the secret leader of another galaxy-spanning outlaw nation, and spent the majority of his time concocting galaxy-spanning strategies for three years. The recurring theme here is "galaxy" spanning; Palpatine had to essentially monitor and manipulate trillions of individuals indirectly, to say nothing of his direct manipulations and schemes, which likely numbered in the dozens.

Where would he have the time? Palpatine chose Dooku because he didn't have the time to train another apprentice from scratch, hence why the Count was so appealing: a master swordsman, a political idealist, a wealthy aristocrat -- thus it is reasonable to conclude that Palpatine clearly had to manage his time wisely. Prancing around with a lightsaber in his office just doesn't seem like an especially clever application of his incredibly limited time.

We do not see any source suggesting or confirming the idea that Palpatine kept in practice, and a logical assessment of Palpatine's workload as both Supreme Chancellor of the Republic and Dark Lord of the Sith, not to mention the fact that he clearly avoided training an apprentice from scratch as well as his own admission to the Rise of Darth Vader that he uses a lightsaber only to humiliate Jedi, would lead to the inevitable conclusion that Palpatine did not likely maintain his lightsaber skills.

Originally posted by Gideon
Quite frankly, I find this line of thought to be firmly within the realm of ridiculous. When would Palpatine have the time to maintain his fighting skills? In case you've forgotten, not only was he the political leader of a galaxy-spanning regime, he was also the secret leader of another galaxy-spanning outlaw nation, and spent the majority of his time concocting galaxy-spanning strategies for three years. The recurring theme here is "galaxy" spanning; Palpatine had to essentially monitor and manipulate trillions of individuals indirectly, to say nothing of his direct manipulations and schemes, which likely numbered in the dozens.

Where would he have the time? Palpatine chose Dooku because he didn't have the time to train another apprentice from scratch, hence why the Count was so appealing: a master swordsman, a political idealist, a wealthy aristocrat -- thus it is reasonable to conclude that Palpatine clearly had to manage his time wisely. Prancing around with a lightsaber in his office just doesn't seem like an especially clever application of his incredibly limited time.

We do not see any source suggesting or confirming the idea that Palpatine kept in practice, and a logical assessment of Palpatine's workload as both Supreme Chancellor of the Republic and Dark Lord of the Sith, not to mention the fact that he clearly avoided training an apprentice from scratch as well as his own admission to the Rise of Darth Vader that he uses a lightsaber only to humiliate Jedi, would lead to the inevitable conclusion that Palpatine did not likely maintain his lightsaber skills. You think that in three years time Palpatine's skills diminished?

Galan007
You think that in three years time Palpatine's skills diminished?

And that's just during the Clone Wars. A decade prior to that, Palpatine was still Supreme Chancellor and still manipulating galactic-spanning events.

That's thirteen years in total. I see zero reason to believe that the man had the desire, inclination, or means to maintain his skills.

Originally posted by Gideon
And that's just during the Clone Wars. A decade prior to that, Palpatine was still Supreme Chancellor and still manipulating galactic-spanning events.

That's thirteen years in total. I see zero reason to believe that the man had the desire, inclination, or means to maintain his skills. Despite the years in which he may not have been practicing, is there any reason to believe his lightsaber skills worsened?

I'm not sure.

In some cultures, though, skills become less refined when you don't use them.

Originally posted by Gideon
I'm not sure.

In some cultures, though, skills become less refined when you don't use them. From a real-world perspective, you're absolutely right... But Palpatine and his 'Sithness' don't exactly fit within the guidelines of real-world analogies.

Anywho, I guess my only question is if there are any canonical sources which say something to the tune of Palpatine's saber skills having decreased over the years, due to his relative inactivity in that department? I only ask because his showings in RotS depict his skills as quite.... Honed.

We know that as senator, he relegated most of his day-to-day duties to his aides; training Maul and enacting his Sith plots while secluded in his quarters. As Chancellor, I'm sure he functioned in a similar capacity.

He also had enough time to engage in Sith rituals such as those depicted in Sithisis.

It should also be noted that applying real-world guidelines to anything involving Palpatine is a futile endeavor. Nobody in this world can incite and perpetuate the sheer number of conspiracies that Palpatine devised. Not only that, but Palpatine doesn't really sleep either.

Galan007
From a real-world perspective, you're absolutely right... But Palpatine and his 'Sithness' don't exactly fit within the guidelines of real-world analogies.

There are about a zillion comments I'd like to make that originate from the Smartass dimension, but since I can't pick one, I'll choose the proper emoticon:





...So the fact that he retains a measure of skill with his lightsaber means that he retains all of it?

Originally posted by Gideon
...So the fact that he retains a measure of skill with his lightsaber means that he retains all of it? I see no reason to assume otherwise. That's why I asked if you had proof that his skills did diminish over the years.

EQ
We know that as senator, he relegated most of his day-to-day duties to his aides; training Maul and enacting his Sith plots while secluded in his quarters. As Chancellor, I'm sure he functioned in a similar capacity.

If Galactic Senators are anything like United States Senators, then Palpatine would have a considerable amount of free time. But being the representative of a humble sector is nothing compared to being Supreme Chancellor of the entire Republic, not to mention the secret mastermind of the Confederacy... simultaneously.



Sithisis takes place in a comic book in which the amount of time passed during said ritual is not revealed or hinted at; furthermore, we don't know how often he conducted those rituals; lastly, if he did spend a lot of time conducting Sith rituals, that would eat up a lot of opportunity for swinging his saber.

Galan007
I see no reason

This is evident.



Admittedly, I can only appeal to real world properties and common sense. I live in this mystical dream world in which Palpatine is the simultaneous leader of two galactic-class factions, micromanaging a war between those two factions, and arranging the seduction of Anakin Skywalker, eating up a substantial bulk of his time.

But if all you have to offer me is "uhhh, Star Wars skills dont devolve lyke real wurld skills" and "uhhh, Palpatine was still dangerous with a saber ergo he couldnt lose any skill," we might have to agree to disagree.

Originally posted by Gideon
Admittedly, I can only appeal to real world properties and common sense. I live in this mystical dream world in which Palpatine is the simultaneous leader of two galactic-class factions, micromanaging a war between those two factions, and arranging the seduction of Anakin Skywalker, eating up a substantial bulk of his time.

But if all you have to offer me is "uhhh, Star Wars skills dont devolve lyke real wurld skills" and "uhhh, Palpatine was still dangerous with a saber ergo he couldnt lose any skill," we might have to agree to disagree. u jus had 2 sey u hav n0 prouf!!!11!!

But yeah, I can agree to disagree here. I do see where you're coming from, but based on the skills Palps demonstrated during RotS it's just hard for me to imagine them having decreased.

That's probably a good idea, because anything else will just be me making fun of you incessantly, which in turn could affect our sex life.

You forgot to mention he also has time for Sith rituals and going to the opera.

If I were to concede that Palpatine was truly decades out of practice by the time of ROTS, then by George; at the top of his game, that guy has to be the greatest swordsman of all time.

EQ
You forgot to mention he also has time for Sith rituals







As you can see, I've accounted for everything. I'm good like that.



^ Uh, no he doesn't. He just has to be an incredibly gifted one, which was never in question.

Originally posted by Gideon
That's probably a good idea, because anything else will just be me making fun of you incessantly, which in turn could affect our sex life. And I REFUSE to let that happen.

Yoda and Obi Wan should have faced Sidious together, then taken care of Anakin.

Originally posted by Gideon
As you can see, I've accounted for everything. I'm good like that.



^ Uh, no he doesn't. He just has to be an incredibly gifted one, which was never in question.
If he can go toe-to-toe with Yoda and Mace after literal DECADES of being out of practice, then yeah... he'd knock them silly if he were at the top of his game. That would also make him the best swordsman of all time.

EQ
If he can go toe-to-toe with Yoda and Mace after literal DECADES of being out of practice, then yeah... he'd knock them silly if he were at the top of his game.



First, what was asserted was a maximum of thirteen years. Since a decade has to be ten years, decades (plural) requires no less than twenty years.

Second, what's being asserted here is that Palpatine's technique is what has degraded, not his strength in the Force (thus his speed, agility, dexterity).

Third, there's no indication that it made that much of a difference, since Path of Destruction indicates that Force power is infinitely moar important than outright technique, hence why Bane was able to keep up with Kas'im.



I'm not saying he wouldn't have won against Yoda or Mace, but that doesn't make him the best swordsman of all time.

Luke would be the only one in his way. And I'm being facetious, hence the egregious exaggeration.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yoda and Obi Wan should have faced Sidious together, then taken care of Anakin. I doubt Obi-Wan would've made much of a difference against Palpatine.

and RJ rips off yet another Avvy.... is NOTHING sacred?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yoda and Obi Wan should have faced Sidious together, then taken care of Anakin. Obi-Wan would've just been a liability, he'd get in Yoda's way. They should have gone after Vader together and then Sidious. Least that way they could have been sure to get one.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Obi-Wan would've just been a liability, he'd get in Yoda's way. They should have gone after Vader together and then Sidious. Least that way they could have been sure to get one.

By the time they defeated Vader Sidious may have been too well guarded.

Galan007
I doubt Obi-Wan would've made much of a difference against Palpatine.

Obi-Wan probably could have just solo'd Palpatine by making himself invisible, bypassing the security, and lopping the Emperor's head off.

Originally posted by Gideon
Obi-Wan probably could have just solo'd Palpatine by making himself invisible, bypassing the security, and lopping the Emperor's head off. ...While also repeating himself multiple times?

Seriously, did you notice how much he did that?

-"Let her go Anakin... Let her go."
-"Until now... Until now you have become the very thing you swore to destroy."
-"You were my brother Anakin.. My brother."
-"I have failed you Anakin, I have failed you."

Etc.


F*cker must have had some sort of underlying head injury. none

Originally posted by Galan007
...While also repeating himself multiple times?

Seriously, did you notice how much he did that?

-"Let her go Anakin... Let her go."
-"Until now... Until now you have become the very thing you swore to destroy."
-"You were my brother Anakin.. My brother."
-"I have failed you Anakin, I have failed you."

Etc.


F*cker must have had some sort of underlying head injury. none

It's a very well documented disease known as maleficus scribus.

Originally posted by truejedi
and RJ rips off yet another Avvy.... is NOTHING sacred? Mhm, I totally knew you had it, had to have it for myself

Originally posted by Galan007
I doubt Obi-Wan would've made much of a difference against Palpatine. Two Jedi attacking from different angles? If it were me, if I were Yoda, I would engage with my lightsaber and have Obi Wan attack from afar with force powers.

Guess it would have ruined the movie though.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Two Jedi attacking from different angles? If it were me, if I were Yoda, I would engage with my lightsaber and have Obi Wan attack from afar with force powers. Don't see it happening. Imo, Obi-Wan simply isn't powerful enough to make a difference.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Two Jedi attacking from different angles? If it were me, if I were Yoda, I would engage with my lightsaber and have Obi Wan attack from afar with force powers.

Guess it would have ruined the movie though. Considering how the movie isn't a JRPG, yeah, it would have.