Bad ideas that in retrospect are still bad

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Omega Vision
Sometimes a writer will introduce a new concept that might ruffle fan feathers for a while. Often the backlash will subside with time and sometimes the fanbase will even come around to see it as a positive move, maybe even laugh at their initial overreaction.

But what about the times when you look back at a concept, character, or story from years ago and think "wow I still can't believe they did that!"?

Let me start the topic off with my pick:

Superman rocking a mullet was one of the worst ideas ever. Looking at him drawn with that goofy 90s hair one wondered how DC editorial could possibly screw up a character more. And then the Electric Superman happened. In retrospect Superman's mullet seemed an attractive concept when compared to that nonsense.

Wild Shadow
introduction of sentry in his white trash glory was still bad and even his death cant take from the garbage the he spewed into marvel.

Konton
Donna Troy retcons, the second Scarlet Witch power origin retcon, Wonder Girl's Young Justice costume, Beast's transformations, etc.

Wild Shadow
magneto being de aged to joseph and later killed off for original mags to return and simply being a clone and magneto never evolving past his bigoted self righteous ways.. also the whole xorn thing headache.

Blanket
Rulk

Illusion of Darkseid being powerful.

roughrider
Grant Morrison's retcon of Batman's affair with Talia Al Ghul. Went from him hitting that with gusto, to her basically raping him just to get herself an heir (and isn't Damian a delight. big grin )

Warlord
Originally posted by Konton
the second Scarlet Witch power origin retcon, Beast's transformations.
1. strongly dissagree
2. agree

Martian_mind
Wanda's kids being shards of Mephisto, Vision being made emotionless and their marriage ending.

Warlord
Originally posted by Martian_mind
Wanda's kids being shards of Mephisto, Vision being made emotionless and their marriage ending.
1st. terrible idea.

2nd. didn't bother me much (besides the white apearence). I found the "new" Vision (young avengers) idea much worse

Endless Mike
Putting Wolverine in every single comic book ever made

Juk3n
Having Batman and Cap come out as roughly equal in the three crossovers, really bad idea and way unrealistic. evil face

steverules_2
Cap wins everytime over bats, though MvsDC was fan voted so blame them

Bouboumaster
- Sentry's power in siege
- Everything Loeb did to Hulk until Pak saved the character in extremis
- Onslaught
- One More Day (How nobody named it at this point!?)
- Blue and Red Supermen
- All the rainbow colors of the Green Lantern
- Pak's handling of Galactus
- "Killing" Hercules
- Anti-Monitor as the top dog of the Sinestro Corp (wtf)
- Superman Prime (The golden one)

Warlord
personally I found Avengers Disassembled and its consequences terrible

Bentley
Making the Falcon a p*mp/drug dealer.

Martian_mind
Originally posted by Warlord
1st. terrible idea.

2nd. didn't bother me much (besides the white apearence). I found the "new" Vision (young avengers) idea much worse


I refuse to read new Vision.

I found ye olde Vision and Scarlet to be the ost interesting couple in comics, ending what was potentially a fountain of great stories was an awful move IMO.

Really, what was done with Vision after his break-up with Wanda? He slowly fell in love with her again, then died. They killed any character growth he could have had.

Warlord
I found him being mechanic - cold to be interesting and him finding his inner humanity to be even more. The incident with him and wonderman in vol.3 regarding Scarlet Witch was great IMO. His death and "re-creation" sucked big time tho

Mindship
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/wonder-woman-6.jpg

Bentley
Originally posted by Martian_mind
I refuse to read new Vision.

I found ye olde Vision and Scarlet to be the ost interesting couple in comics, ending what was potentially a fountain of great stories was an awful move IMO.

Really, what was done with Vision after his break-up with Wanda? He slowly fell in love with her again, then died. They killed any character growth he could have had.

Well, I think that we all agree that New Vision is lame, but to be fair with him, the status quo of the New Avengers has been dissappointing since their very few adventures. Maybe old Vision comes back after the Children's crusade? shifty

roughrider
Originally posted by Martian_mind
I refuse to read new Vision.

I found ye olde Vision and Scarlet to be the ost interesting couple in comics, ending what was potentially a fountain of great stories was an awful move IMO.

Really, what was done with Vision after his break-up with Wanda? He slowly fell in love with her again, then died. They killed any character growth he could have had.

Personally, I always wondered what was wrong with her, that she was in love with a piece of plastic.

Bentley
Originally posted by roughrider
Personally, I always wondered what was wrong with her, that she was in love with a piece of plastic.

Have you ever heard about dildos?

BUSTER1
I can't believe no one has said Spiderman:Brand New Day. Aunt May died before-in Amzing Spiderman 400-and you didn't see Parker making stupid deals with the devil then.

King Kandy
One More Day's the worst.

batdude123
Originally posted by steverules_2
Cap wins everytime over bats, though MvsDC was fan voted so blame them

Funny.

willRules
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
introduction of sentry in his white trash glory was still bad and even his death cant take from the garbage the he spewed into marvel.

Totally agree.

I know this to be true because I was soooo willing to give him a chance. I love the whole idea behind Sentry, but never thougth it was ever executed well.

I picked up the mini drawn by Jr Jr (not the Paul Jenkins original mini) and it was bad. I thought I'd give him a second chance. Bendis's New Avengers was good and I thought the second Sentry centric story would be a good opportunity to prove that Sentry could be fun. It didn't do it for me.

I was waiting for the time when we'd see Setry's memories uncovered. This didn't happen. I'm glad they killed him off but in doing so, they kinda proved they can't do much else with him. Marvel really screwed up with that character.

roughrider
Originally posted by willRules
Totally agree.

I know this to be true because I was soooo willing to give him a chance. I love the whole idea behind Sentry, but never thougth it was ever executed well.

I picked up the mini drawn by Jr Jr (not the Paul Jenkins original mini) and it was bad. I thought I'd give him a second chance. Bendis's New Avengers was good and I thought the second Sentry centric story would be a good opportunity to prove that Sentry could be fun. It didn't do it for me.

I was waiting for the time when we'd see Setry's memories uncovered. This didn't happen. I'm glad they killed him off but in doing so, they kinda proved they can't do much else with him. Marvel really screwed up with that character.

Sentry had an interesting beginning, but it was clear he would play second fiddle to Thor once he returned from his sleep.
Kind of too bad. Superman & Captain Marvel found a way to co-exist, after everything that happened off page.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
- Sentry's power in siege
- Everything Loeb did to Hulk until Pak saved the character in extremis
- Onslaught
- One More Day (How nobody named it at this point!?)
- Blue and Red Supermen
- All the rainbow colors of the Green Lantern
- Pak's handling of Galactus
- "Killing" Hercules
- Anti-Monitor as the top dog of the Sinestro Corp (wtf)
- Superman Prime (The golden one) 100% agree

- dark avengers team breaking up (i liked the dynamic)

- guy gardner: warrior no expression

- endangered species no expression

- jean grey

- superman singing to defeat someone

- flash: rebirth

- how blackest night wrapped up.

also, when is dc going to admit it's a "crisis" event a couple years after "final crisis"? characters are being reborn under the brightest day banner.

- m-day and all the boring stuff it produced

- any version of magneto that sucks, what a disgrace

- deadpool as comic relief

roughrider
Originally posted by Bentley
Have you ever heard about dildos?

Yeaaahhh...but you put them back in the drawer when you're done.
(So I've heard.)
Be funny if Wanda ever wheeled Vision into the closet once it was over. stick out tongue

Bentley
Originally posted by roughrider
Yeaaahhh...but you put them back in the drawer when you're done.
(So I've heard.)
Be funny if Wanda ever wheeled Vision into the closet once it was over. stick out tongue

Well, Vision is like a sex toy that cuddles.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Bentley
Well, Vision is like a sex toy that cuddles.
And does Household chores.

Vision is more like Wanda's Bang-Butler.

Bentley
Originally posted by Omega Vision
And does Household chores.

Vision is more like Wanda's Bang-Butler.

Actually he must be quite dreamy for women from eastern europe.


Back on topic: 80% of universal reality warpers.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Bentley
Actually he must be quite dreamy for women from eastern europe.


Back on topic: 80% of universal reality warpers.
Emperor Joker was still a cool idea though. Mostly because it had next to no real impact on the DCU as a whole after it ended.

roughrider
Bad idea that is in the process of happening...

The return of Jean Grey to the X-Men. thumb down

Has any other character made death more irrelevant?

ankur29
OMD,BND
spiderman's deal with mephisto

BUSTER1
The thing with OMD and BND is that the Spiderman I have grown up with would not be stupid and gullible enough to make a deal with the devil. Marvel had obviously written themselves into a corner, with Pete's dual identity being public knowledge, his increased powers-making people who could give him a good tussle before easily beatable. And there was his chilling threat to Kingpin, itself out of character.
So obviously, someone at Marvel said "hey, how about we somehow get rid of Spiderman 's recent upgrades, restore Aunt May to health, make Parker single again, and restore his secret identity. It will make Spiderman more fun" -so it came to pass that Peter Parker, one of Marvels most experienced, moral heroes makes a deal with a demon. GOOD GOD!!!! I think Pete would've refused Mephisto's offer if he made it to him just after he caught the burglar that shot Uncle Ben-even though Pete was 15 at the time.
And what was wrong with the marriage??? why wipe out 20+years of continuity-thats an insult to comic book fans who have read the Spiderman books all through that period. Even back in Civil War, when Pete at 1st joined the registered side-why did Marvel have him going completely public. Sureley all he needed to do was register and have his identity kept as classified info by the govt/SHIELD. With Spiderman's long list of enemies, it was a pretty stupid move to go completely public, as any ANY friend of his would be a potential super villain target. I know he was being influenced by a rather obnoxious version of Tony Stark-but even Stark (as he was behaving at the time) shouldn't want to push Parker into an action that could have catastrophic consequences for his loved ones

Omega Vision
Originally posted by roughrider
Bad idea that is in the process of happening...

The return of Jean Grey to the X-Men. thumb down

Has any other character made death more irrelevant?
Do they even hold funerals for her anymore?

Creshosk
Originally posted by roughrider

The return of Jean Grey to the X-Men. thumb down

Has any other character made death more irrelevant? Aunt May?

Bouboumaster
Originally posted by BUSTER1
The thing with OMD and BND is that the Spiderman I have grown up with would not be stupid and gullible enough to make a deal with the devil. Marvel had obviously written themselves into a corner, with Pete's dual identity being public knowledge, his increased powers-making people who could give him a good tussle before easily beatable. And there was his chilling threat to Kingpin, itself out of character.
So obviously, someone at Marvel said "hey, how about we somehow get rid of Spiderman 's recent upgrades, restore Aunt May to health, make Parker single again, and restore his secret identity. It will make Spiderman more fun" -so it came to pass that Peter Parker, one of Marvels most experienced, moral heroes makes a deal with a demon. GOOD GOD!!!! I think Pete would've refused Mephisto's offer if he made it to him just after he caught the burglar that shot Uncle Ben-even though Pete was 15 at the time.
And what was wrong with the marriage??? why wipe out 20+years of continuity-thats an insult to comic book fans who have read the Spiderman books all through that period. Even back in Civil War, when Pete at 1st joined the registered side-why did Marvel have him going completely public. Sureley all he needed to do was register and have his identity kept as classified info by the govt/SHIELD. With Spiderman's long list of enemies, it was a pretty stupid move to go completely public, as any ANY friend of his would be a potential super villain target. I know he was being influenced by a rather obnoxious version of Tony Stark-but even Stark (as he was behaving at the time) shouldn't want to push Parker into an action that could have catastrophic consequences for his loved ones

Making Spider-Man identity public was a poor writing choice, but that was nothing nest to the total failure/insult/pimp slap that they gave to us, fan, with OMD and BND. The dynamic between MJ and Peter was pretty interesting, and at least, they could have divorce, or really, anything but this piece of shit.

roughrider
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Making Spider-Man identity public was a poor writing choice, but that was nothing nest to the total failure/insult/pimp slap that they gave to us, fan, with OMD and BND. The dynamic between MJ and Peter was pretty interesting, and at least, they could have divorce, or really, anything but this piece of shit.

Maybe it's possible Marvel will bring them back together?

Once upon a time, DC said with as straight a face as possible, they were killing off Superman because he wasn't selling well enough. Gone from the scene for awhile, but just inevitable that he came back (And I never believed they meant it.) Over 30 years of Peter & MJ being a couple has to count for something; the writers just want to explore new directions for a while.

roughrider
Originally posted by roughrider


And things did get strange during Civil War, with characters taking actions they wouldn't normally do...

roughrider
Originally posted by roughrider


And yeah, Marvel did paint themselves into a corner, but they didn't want Peter to repeat the same route as Daredevil.

Bad Ash231
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
- Onslaught

Mark Waid did a credible job of building up Onslaught as a potentially good idea. His original take on Onslaught is that it was just intended to be a long-suppressed part of Xavier's personality (no Magneto involved), and if he had more of a voice in the crossover, and was involved in the stories that initially set up the mystery, I think things would have worked out a lot better.

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll198/evilash1990/X-Men053-05-Onslaughtch1pt1.jpg

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll198/evilash1990/X-Men053-15-Onslaughtch1pt1.jpg

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll198/evilash1990/X-Men053-16-Onslaughtch1pt1.jpg

Omega Vision
Depowering Wonder Woman was such a bad idea that people who didn't even read comics (Gloria Steinem) took notice and protested.

SamZED
1) OMD - somebody should beat the crap outta Quesada. He can spend 100 years talking about how important it was to retcon 20 years of Spider-man's stories and how it barely effected anything but it wont change the fact that it was the WORST idea ever that screwed up Spider-man's continuity forever. And that arrogant f@#k wont even admit he skrewed up and is so freaking proud of himself he probably jerks off in front of a mirror. He should get fired for OMD and never be allowed to work on any comicbook ever again even if it's reprint of Disney's 30 years old "Duck Tales" story.
2) Daken and Romulus - bad characters. Just bad.
3) Frankencastle - they're gonna turn him back to normal sooner or later and now that he's a zombie they'll have no choice but to come up with a lame magic-based excuse to bring Frank back. Because Marvel solves everything with magic.
4) Gwen being a two-faced *****. Bad idea.
5) Turning Deadpool into Marvel's #1 whore.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by SamZED
3) Frankencastle - they're gonna turn him back to normal sooner or later and now that he's a zombie they'll have no choice but to come up with a lame magic-based excuse to bring Frank back. Because Marvel solves everything with magic.

He's back to normal in Shadowland already.

Kazenji
Originally posted by SamZED
3) Frankencastle - they're gonna turn him back to normal sooner or later and now that he's a zombie they'll have no choice but to come up with a lame magic-based excuse to bring Frank back. Because Marvel solves everything with magic.


Each to their own i suppose because i like Franken Castle it was weird at the start but i got use to it.

Deadline
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
magneto never evolving past his bigoted self righteous ways..

hahaha! I see what you mean but...

SamZED
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He's back to normal in Shadowland already. Ive seen it but thought it was a mistake. The story takes place right after the siege, Bullseye isnt even in prison yet, its like they just beat the Void, but Frank is somehow back no normal already?confused

Originally posted by Kazenji
Each to their own i suppose because i like Franken Castle it was weird at the start but i got use to it. True. But it's the story im worried about. They're gonna have to change it back eventually, and I dont see a way to bring someone back to life without magic. And solving everything with magic is lame imo.

Creshosk
Originally posted by SamZED
I dont see a way to bring someone back to life without magic. Clones seem to be a popular way. Or robots.

This is Marvel after all.

Kazenji
Originally posted by SamZED

2) Daken and Romulus - bad characters. Just bad.


I actually liked Romulus in the beginning but it was a let down when they finally revealed him.

psycho gundam
spider-man clone saga(s)

Q99
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Depowering Wonder Woman was such a bad idea that people who didn't even read comics (Gloria Steinem) took notice and protested.

Arguably it worked in a "New Coke" kinda way smile

King Kandy
Originally posted by psycho gundam
spider-man clone saga(s)
It wasn't that bad of an idea how it was originally conceived.

Wild Shadow
gwen stacy being turned into a skank pregnant with osborns kid..

i think obsorn and slade certain traits in common.

Mshinu
1: OMD
2: Making Xavier out to be a true piece of shit rather than just having a dark side.
3: Daken, he sucks. Too many clawed wolvie lookalikes around also. I hope Daken develops a gay reationship with Spidey and when Sabertooth gets back he tears mullet apart in front of Parker.
4: Bringing characters back from the dead with no explanation (wtf happened to Psylocke after Vargas killed her?)
5: Apocalypse STUTTERING to Black Bolt in HOM. WTF?

Bentley
Of those you mentioned I don't really mind Xavier being an *sshole, a guy who like to define himself by his morals is a jerk. Unless you're Captain America because that means you're always right.

He stuttered because he knew what was going to happen afterwards.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by SamZED
Ive seen it but thought it was a mistake. The story takes place right after the siege, Bullseye isnt even in prison yet, its like they just beat the Void, but Frank is somehow back no normal already?confused

I know, I know... but he's human on covers and promo pics (killing puny parker evil face ), too.

King Castle
the worse retcons arenet even retcons just lack of knowledge or back story for the change.

kon el being half lex and half superman...

umm.. previous scans and even repeated DNa alteration would have made it impossible for lex or supes to be donors.. especially when we know what lex thought about the supe cloning during reign of supermen

-Pr-
Originally posted by King Castle
the worse retcons arenet even retcons just lack of knowledge or back story for the change.

kon el being half lex and half superman...

umm.. previous scans and even repeated DNa alteration would have made it impossible for lex or supes to be donors.. especially when we know what lex thought about the supe cloning during reign of supermen

lex proved it was possible by doing it.

it was stated that you couldn't clone superman without using another source of DNA to stabilise the genetic structure. Lex used himself.

it makes the character richer imo.

King Castle
i'm talking about the actual story origin of kon el doesnt even come close to lining up to the teen titan retcon without even being an actual retcon..

Superboy's entire DNA was human based made to mimic superman's powers... superman by the way is a triple helix superboy was a double helix,.

now the only issue with superboy was who was his donor westfield or the psycho scientist living in the cadmus tunnels.

we know that superboy had his entire DNA replaced by roxy to keep him from dying. her DNA was used to restabilize superboy. b4 that we know that superboy needed gaurdian's to fight off teh clone disease... the reason it worked on superboy was b/c superboy's DNA was human which is why they couldnt use Dubbilex DNA since it was so fundamentally altered a DNAlien..

pretty sure i am missing one more DNA alteration to superboy... but anyways LEx luther during the origin story was not aware of superboy nor knew anything about the experiment he was quite shock to see him on the news and superboy's interview and explanation of how he came to be.

also to put thinks in perspective team cadmus also broke superboy's illusion and origin to rest telling him he wasnt cloned from superman and showing him scans of his DNA and his two possible donor's since westfield had died and damaged caused by cadmus was unclear whose dna was used it sure wasnt Lex.. since lex tried to kill them all due to ego and they semi succeeding where he had repeatedly failed even then lex didnt know the whole truth of superboy's origin..

that is about 10 yrs of consistent history written away by an @$$hole writer just to make a modern character and explain his take on him and his powers.

Badabing
Originally posted by King Castle

umm.. previous scans and even repeated DNa alteration would have made it impossible for lex or supes to be donors.. especially when we know what lex thought about the supe cloning during reign of supermen Originally posted by -Pr-
lex proved it was possible by doing it.

it was stated that you couldn't clone superman without using another source of DNA to stabilise the genetic structure. Lex used himself.
Pwnd laughing out loud

King Castle
i wasnt pawned.. and i dont find ur attitude funny..

this is about retcons.. we know as a fact that the original origin for superby had nothing to do with lex nor was his DNA kryptonian..

now if he wants to believe that it wasnt a retcon he can go ahead that doesnt change the actual evidence that it was.

Badabing
I wasn't trying to make you laugh with my attitude. So I'm relieved that you don't find it funny.

You said "previous scans and even repeated DNa alteration would have made it impossible for lex or supes to be donors.. especially when we know what lex thought about the supe cloning during reign of supermen."

PR replied "lex proved it was possible by doing it."

We can use another word besides pwnd if it helps. innuendur


Anyway, the basis behind a retcon is that characters, origins, histories, etc. change. You may not like it but it happens.

The Nuul
drylaugh

-Pr-
where did i say it wasn't a retcon? It was. It was just a good, necessary one imo.

Bentley
Yep, there are good retcons, awful retcons and random retcons.

Good retcons are those who are necessary and manage to sort of make sense, at least in a way, Xorn-Magneto being produced by Scarlett Witch is somewhat more acceptable than (here we go to awful) a twin of Xorn saying his twin acted like Magneto for no good reason. Random retcons are what happens to Hawkman every sunday.

King Castle
the hawkman yrly unexplained retcon is what kon el was infected with.. hawkman needs to be stopped b4 he infects the DCU

-Pr-
Originally posted by King Castle
the hawkman yrly unexplained retcon is what kon el was infected with.. hawkman needs to be stopped b4 he infects the DCU

the what?

Doctor-Alvis
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Let me start the topic off with my pick:

Superman rocking a mullet was one of the worst ideas ever. Looking at him drawn with that goofy 90s hair one wondered how DC editorial could possibly screw up a character more. And then the Electric Superman happened. In retrospect Superman's mullet seemed an attractive concept when compared to that nonsense.
A mullet was probably a good idea at the time. It was a moderately popular style and by then I'm sure Superman's classic 50's hairstyle was becoming the "d-bag Superman haircut".

basilisk
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Superman rocking a mullet was one of the worst ideas ever. Looking at him drawn with that goofy 90s hair one wondered how DC editorial could possibly screw up a character more. And then the Electric Superman happened. In retrospect Superman's mullet seemed an attractive concept when compared to that nonsense.

I'll admit, I still have a laugh whenever I see those old Supes appearances with the mullet. It just looked so... stupid. They should have had scenes like:

- Superman flies past the Daily Planet:
Perry: "Great Caesar's ghost! Are my eyes deceiving me or was Superman rocking a mullet?"
Jimmy: (voice like the burger joint kid on the Simpsons) "I think it looked cool sir!"
- Clark walks in.
Perry: "Good lord Clark! First Superman with the hair and now you too? Has the entire world gone crazy?!?"
Clark: "Just keeping up with the times, Chief!"
Jimmy: "Looking sharp Mister Kent!"

- Later, at the Fortress of Solitude, Superman finishes fitting artificial mullets to his array of Superman robots:
"All done. Now my robots all look as cool as I do..."

I actually preferred the electric Superman just because I knew it was only temporary, and I knew that when he went back to normal the mullet would be going too. Instead of having a scene where Lois says "What happened to your mullet Superman?" and Supes answering "I cut if off Lois. It was stupid."

Omega Vision
Originally posted by basilisk
I'll admit, I still have a laugh whenever I see those old Supes appearances with the mullet. It just looked so... stupid. They should have had scenes like:

- Superman flies past the Daily Planet:
Perry: "Great Caesar's ghost! Are my eyes deceiving me or was Superman rocking a mullet?"
Jimmy: (voice like the burger joint kid on the Simpsons) "I think it looked cool sir!"
- Clark walks in.
Perry: "Good lord Clark! First Superman with the hair and now you too? Has the entire world gone crazy?!?"
Clark: "Just keeping up with the times, Chief!"
Jimmy: "Looking sharp Mister Kent!"

- Later, at the Fortress of Solitude, Superman finishes fitting artificial mullets to his array of Superman robots:
"All done. Now my robots all look as cool as I do..."

I actually preferred the electric Superman just because I knew it was only temporary, and I knew that when he went back to normal the mullet would be going too. Instead of having a scene where Lois says "What happened to your mullet Superman?" and Supes answering "I cut if off Lois. It was stupid."
That brings up a good point: would the mullet even be appropriate in the Daily Planet? Seems like something Perry White would want trimmed. He runs a tight ship.

Doctor-Alvis
The idea of Superman painstakingly retrofitting his robots with mullet technology makes me laugh.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.