Cross Genre Thread #5: Iron Spider-Man vs Kain (LoK) in NYC

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Omega Vision
Iron Spider-Man
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_IlK7wT7sfj4/SKfbzShZyiI/AAAAAAAADx4/TcbAWSsF9fU/s400/iron+spider01.jpg
Vs

Kain from Legacy of Kain
http://ui20.gamespot.com/1075/kain_2.jpg

Fight in New York City.

jalek moye
Well heres a list of all that the Spider-armor that he wears is. Sicne i figure many people won't really know.

Spinnerette/Stinger Access Ports: Through development of nano-crystal growth topology, this suit grow numerous configurations. It allows full interface from any surface, independent of occupant when necessary, and due to this design ports auto dilate to allow organics to pass. This includes Spider-Man's natural Webbing and Stingers.

Waldoes: The Iron Spider Armor possessed three mechanical spider-arms, or "waldoes," created from rapidly grown mono-atomic iron alloy crystal. These could be used to see around corners (via cameras in the tips) and to manipulate objects indirectly. When in the stowed position, the arms remain within the gold "circle" on Spider-Man's back. These arms are rapidly grown at the rate of 90 inches per second, Hollow construction allows for all material to be stored within the small back-mounted pack, and the command for growth is achieved via fast neural net-detection and amplification. The waldoes even have small grippers at the tips working as pseudo fingers.

Glider Device: It could glide via mesh webbing on its arms. The pseudo web form is a biodegradable filament generator. This allows for controlled gliding. Near invisible gossamer filaments extend for 20 meters- rapid growth and detachment.

Enhanced Chestpiece: A foamed titanium nitrile fabric chestpiece has body contoured and articulated panels to support the occupant. The chestpiece contains the highest concentration of Kasimir Plate Batteries-- nano-scale power generating devices that exploit "zero point" energy. Can generate 1.2kWatts at peak demand.

Mask Filter: A self-cleaning electrostatic precipitation system allows for full Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Filtration. It also had an 8 minutes worth compressed air capacity, which helped in situations underwater.
Enhanced Lenses: The Headpiece contains large area holographic lensing to allow for long eye-relief and panoramic real-world/-time viewing. Includes several optical spectrum modes with synthesized information overlay.

Constituent Costume Containment: Part of the costume could detach itself to cover an object too dangerous to touch, such as a radioactive asteroid.

Multifunctional Layers: The Iron Spider Armor has a total of 17 layers throughout its workings, with each performing a different, separate and important function.

Transpirable Teflon-Based Temperature Control: Controls the Internal Temperature of the Wearer.

Moisture Pump: Occupant Cooling.

Conductivity Control: Low Infrared Signature.

Sensor Layer: Able to transmit data from kinisthetic analysis of occupant.

Suit Tension Layer

Super-Conducting Plastic Opto-Electrical Hybrid Computer 4.2 Teraflop Speed CPU: Proprietary Stark Industries Operating System. Multi-decision making sub-routine strategy prevents tech attack. Suit is semi-autonomous when unoccupied. Passcode activated lockdown.

Repair Layer: Self-repair/limited mechanical repair. Also first aid with limited external first aid.

Musculature Motility Layer: Follows occupant's motion.

Communications: All band tranceiving GPS/Microwave including ELF.

Emission Control

Power Management

Impact Layer: National Institute of Justice Threat Level III Resistant. Heat-resistant Kevlar micro-fiber stops small arms fire.

Shear Detection Enabled Spidey to see in the infrared and ultraviolet portions of the electromagnetic spectrum.

Antenna: Fractal design allows for simultaneous wavelength propagation. Allows for "speed of thought" suit control. Also allowed Spider-Man to listen to police, fire and/or emergency broadcasts.
Synthetic Aperture Camera Layer: Stores Cameras Optical to RADAR.

Light Emitting Plastic Layer: Allows for apparent costume displays including faces, suits, camouflage, etc.

Diamond Nitrile Overcoat: Epitaxially deposited in chain mesh form; Transparent to Spider Effect and allow for normal surface adhesion method (Wall Crawling

ScreamPaste
Excellent. cool

I'm of the belief Spidey takes the majority. He only really needs to avoid being tagged by the soul reaver. Kain's not very fast, so this is no issue. Unfortunately Kain is slightly stronger than spidey, so taking it away could prove difficult, but not impossible.

Spidey's precog will also warn him about any of Kain's dangerous attacks like a teleport slash.

Etna
Kain Wins stick out tongue *trolling*

ScreamPaste
IIRC, the most physicly powerful and durable of the vampires, Dumah, was slain by normal humans. Spidey's strength should be more than sufficient to put Kain away. cool

Black bolt z
Spidey.Well i've done my part.

Omega Vision
Spider-Man for the majority.

marwash22
Whoa, guys... slow it down, this thread is too exciting. sneer

Astner
If you're not familar with Kain, I suggest you follow this short miniseries on youtube.

YTEuHj83vmw

Or at least read up on him on the legacyofkain.wikia.

The main road to victory for Kain is a telekinetic grasp followed by the spell Lightning.

As can be seen telekinetic grasp is a commonly used technique.

bMIHjCmFeNk

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by Astner
If you're not familar with Kain, I suggest you follow this short miniseries on youtube.

YTEuHj83vmw

Or at least read up on him on the legacyofkain.wikia.

The main road to victory for Kain is a telekinetic grasp followed by the spell Lightning.

As can be seen telekinetic grasp is a commonly used technique.

bMIHjCmFeNk

Spidey is much, much faster than Kain, with precog to warn him, is also much stronger than anyone Kain levitates with a built in tethering system to pull himself out of the TK. (Webs)

Kain'll have a hell of a time catching spiderman, too.

Astner
I'm not sure whether Spider-man's first reaction would be to web himself to a nearby structure when choked telekinetically. Furthermore Kain can turn to mist and teleport too. Then we have all the mazes where Kain proves his physical prowess by moving 8 cubic meters of granite (approx. 22 tons).

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by Astner
I'm not sure whether Spider-man's first reaction would be to web himself to a nearby structure when choked telekinetically. Furthermore Kain can turn to mist and teleport too. Then we have all the mazes where Kain proves his physical prowess by moving 8 cubic meters of granite (approx. 22 tons). I can't think of anything else he would do. no expression Seems like the first thing I'd do.

Mist is handy, teleportation not so much, all it's really good for is playing Keep-away, but Kain's magic stores are not infinite, and Spider man is faster. Kain is stronger, apparently stronger than Raziel who's strength was mathed around 180 000 joules, Kain's probably almost a 50 tonner. I think it was 48 would be his maximum. That said, Kain is not incredibly durable.

Parmaniac
Agility
http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/4769/agilityavoids5superhuma.jpg
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/505/agilityavoidsblastsfrom.jpg
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/4482/agilityavoidsbullets3mk.jpg
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/214/agilityavoidslasersfrom.jpg
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/9716/lanternssmv156.jpg
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/1029/agilitybeatsmrxinnerdem.jpg

Durability
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/3796/durabilitytakesanexplos.jpg
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/8951/durabilitytakesseverale.jpg
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/8951/durabilitytakesseverale.jpg

Iron Spider Suit
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/8490/ironspiderbulletproof1a.jpg
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/404/ironspiderbulletproof2a.jpg
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8819/ironspidercostumefeatur.jpg
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/8819/ironspidercostumefeatur.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8819/ironspidercostumefeatur.jpg

Jump
http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/1158/jumpgiantleap1ssmv1260.jpg
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/5263/jumpingvlp04.jpg

Speed
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3473/speedrescuesapersonfrom.jpg
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/6041/speedfasterthanthehuman.jpg
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/553/speedfasterthantheeyesm.jpg
http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/9044/speedgreengoblinstatest.jpg

Strength
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/6992/strengthliftsatraincara.jpg
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/5196/strengthcarefullyliftsa.jpg
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/5196/strengthcarefullyliftsa.jpg
http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/9748/strengthstopsatruckasmv.jpg

Webbing
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/3189/webbingcarryingcapacity.jpg
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/3189/webbingcarryingcapacity.jpg
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/3189/webbingcarryingcapacity.jpg
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/3189/webbingcarryingcapacity.jpg
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/3189/webbingcarryingcapacity.jpg
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/5506/webbingfireresistantssm.jpg

Spider-Sense
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2397/spidersensewosmv209.jpg
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/9149/spidersensedifferentlev.jpg
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/9149/spidersensedifferentlev.jpg
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/9149/spidersensedifferentlev.jpg

ScreamPaste
Who is Spidey about to mash with that train car?

Also, thanks for posting the scans. big grin

RE: Blaxican
**** it. LET'S GET BT IN HERE.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
**** it. LET'S GET BT IN HERE. He's on vacation. big grin

Also, no. He'd get cross genre closed FOREVER. no expression

illadelph12
Smh...

Lord_Talron
this sure is a lively place of debate and argument!

ScreamPaste
Yeah, which is strange considering it got 9 votes. no expression Was expecting more people to show up.

Spidey's popular, Kain's popular, where are the supporters?

Lord_Talron
i guess everyone is certain someone wins the fight, but who...? we'll never know

ScreamPaste
I'm personally of the belief Spiderman takes the vast majority. /Bait

But, no, seriously, I am. no expression Kain really needs to tag him with the reaver, it's the only win I can see.

Omega Vision
So remind me exactly why some people think Kain is Herald when most agree he'll have serious trouble with a Low-Mid Meta?

ScreamPaste
A guy named BT, mostly:

Originally posted by Burning thought
i vote kain for sky-father/transcendant, he has so many powers hes worthy of the tier
Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain obvious transcendant (beyond if there was one)

invincibility
Boundless/infnite energy manipulation
infnite incorruptable magic
Time manipulation
Dimension powers (can travel through, into, summon others from dimensions)
Transfigeration
Soul devouring
incredible mental abilities, illusions, mind control etc
instant teleportation
infnite potential (constant evolution, evolves every so years gaining a great amount of power)
immortality
Originally posted by Burning thought
now can we vote kain, hes been on that list for about 100 years as nothing, taking his powers into account at his prime? big grin

invincibility
Boundless/infnite energy manipulation
infnite incorruptable magic
Time manipulation
Dimension powers (can travel through, into, summon others from dimensions)
Transfigeration
Soul devouring
incredible mental abilities, illusions, mind control etc
instant teleportation
infnite potential (constant evolution, evolves every so years gaining a great amount of power)
immortality

simply top of the list id put him, infnite energy manipualtion and he could very likely destroy anything

The problem is: while Kain has a fairly wide variety of powers, almost all of them are wholly featless, gameplay only, or pathetic in scale. no expression

There's a vague quote somewhere that as the scion of balance Kain can "regulate" magic in Nosgoth, and it specificly says in Nosgoth, and somehow a jump was made that this means he can actually amp himself to infitnite power. IE, pure fan speculation and a leap of logic beyond insane.

So, this thread serves two purposes for me, one, I think it'd be interesting of more than one Kain supporter showed up. (Astner is being helpful, but I can easily argue Kain has no reaction feat to allow him to mist or teleport intime to avoid Spiderman pummelling him.) Secondly, it's a good way to show Kain is around low meta, not herald.

Astner
I think we should be restricting Spider-man's feats to the era in question, Civil War. Authors tend to do things differentely, and having scans of the panel where Spider-man blitzes Firelord posted is uncalled for.

I'd still tip slightly in Kain's favor, Spider-man wouldn't be able to dodge or survive a lightning strike and all Kain has to do is telekinetically grab him. Though if Spider-man got close and landed a few hits they would doubtlessly cause a lot of damage.

Omega Vision
^ I'm pretty sure Spider-Man has dodged lightning strikes before.

Astner
Originally posted by Omega Vision
^ I'm pretty sure Spider-Man has dodged lightning strikes before.
Not in Civil War.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by Astner
I think we should be restricting Spider-man's feats to the era in question, Civil War. Authors tend to do things differentely, and having scans of the panel where Spider-man blitzes Firelord posted is uncalled for.

I'd still tip slightly in Kain's favor, Spider-man wouldn't be able to dodge or survive a lightning strike and all Kain has to do is telekinetically grab him. Though if Spider-man got close and landed a few hits they would doubtlessly cause a lot of damage. Spiderman has precog and he could easily aim-dodge Kain's attack before it was actually set off, imho.

I edited my post above with something similar. Also Kain needs to be able to grab something as fast as spidey with TK, and spidey has a way to tether out. I also don't think a single lightning bolt from Kain would put Spidey down, and he's a quick learner.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Astner
Not in Civil War.
What difference does it make?

Astner
.2 mA (mili-ampere) is deadly. Powerful lightning bolts can reach up to 200 kA that's a factor billion. No one has ever survived lightning strike directly, survivers that pass out are usually 5-10 meters away from the impact (which is usually a tree).

Originally posted by Omega Vision
What difference does it make?
I assumed that it was the version we used.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Astner
.2 mA (mili-ampere) is deadly. Powerful lightning bolts can reach up to 200 kA that's a factor billion. No one has ever survived lightning strike directly, survivers that pass out are usually 5-10 meters away from the impact (which is usually a tree).


I assumed that it was the version we used.
There's a big difference between a human and Spider-Man. Spider-Man is much faster and has pre-cog that allows him to move before the lightning strikes.


I think feats performed by regular Spider-Man should be kosher for a superior version of Spider-Man.

jalek moye
Civil war version is the same spider-man that all the earlier feats were done by. Actually he's a better version.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by Astner
.2 mA (mili-ampere) is deadly. Powerful lightning bolts can reach up to 200 kA that's a factor billion. No one has ever survived lightning strike directly, survivers that pass out are usually 5-10 meters away from the impact (which is usually a tree).


I assumed that it was the version we used. Kain's lightning bolts, to my knowledge, never show themselves to be as powerful as real ones, only as fast. (sort of a smaller scale zap bolt, almost.)

Do you have something to show they're on par with real ones?

Astner
Originally posted by Omega Vision
There's a big difference between a human and Spider-Man. Spider-Man is much faster and has pre-cog that allows him to move before the lightning strikes.
A factor billion in current is a lot, it would cleave a tree in wo along the stem. Furthermore his speed, that's why he'd have to telekinetically grab him by his throat before blasting him down.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I think feats performed by regular Spider-Man should be kosher for a superior version of Spider-Man.
But it's not the same. Authors write their characters differently. Jim Starlin's characters for instance are a lot weaker (Silver Surfer having to be amped to destroy a moon, a planetary explosion nearly killing Galactus, etc.).

MooCowofJustice
Kain's TK is pretty weak if I remember. BT doesn't give feats in Game Vs, but isn't the best thing he's lifted opponents his general size?

Parmaniac
Originally posted by Astner
I think we should be restricting Spider-man's feats to the era in question, Civil War. Authors tend to do things differentely, and having scans of the panel where Spider-man blitzes Firelord posted is uncalled for.

I'd still tip slightly in Kain's favor, Spider-man wouldn't be able to dodge or survive a lightning strike and all Kain has to do is telekinetically grab him. Though if Spider-man got close and landed a few hits they would doubtlessly cause a lot of damage. So basically you demand a scan of Spidey dodging lightning attacks in the civil war era?

These kinds of demands are so specific that at a point people just can't provide them

but here:
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1558/agilityavoidinglasers3.jpg
it's from the civil war era (don't have the issue number though)

Here's another thing, not from civil war (before) but he says that he's doing that stuff for years
http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/2465/agilityavoidinglasers1.jpg

BTW I only voted for this Thread cause of Spidey I have no clue about Kains powers (so I wasn't baiting anyone) it's just that I can really contribute something this time.

Astner
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Kain's lightning bolts, to my knowledge, never show themselves to be as powerful as real ones, only as fast. (sort of a smaller scale zap bolt, almost.)
I can't find fotage, but it is his most powerful spell as i deals instant-death to all enemies on the screen.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Do you have something to show they're on par with real ones?
No, I don't.

ScreamPaste
Dude does a lot in the time it takes Chameleon to finish a sentence. o_o; Nice. Originally posted by Astner
I can't find fotage, but it is his most powerful spell as i deals instant-death to all enemies on the screen.


No, I don't.

Well, maybe you can supply some feats for the enemies it kills? That'd be good, too.

jalek moye
Originally posted by Astner
A factor billion in current is a lot, it would cleave a tree in wo along the stem. Furthermore his speed, that's why he'd have to telekinetically grab him by his throat before blasting him down.


But it's not the same. Authors write their characters differently. Jim Starlin's characters for instance are a lot weaker (Silver Surfer having to be amped to destroy a moon, a planetary explosion nearly killing Galactus, etc.).

Yet it's all part of the character history, everythign they have done is still canon for when the next writer takes over unless retconned. Civil war spider-man actually had an upgrade so weather he did all those same feat or not he is capable of each of them.

otherwise every vs thread we'd have to state a specific arc for every character

Astner
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Well, maybe you can supply some feats for the enemies it kills? That'd be good, too.
Demons, druids, ghosts, mentalists, necromancers, paladins, vampires. There really isn't much to their abilities, but the fodder vampires are "immortal" and their wounds close as soon as they open so you have to finish them, in some way.

Aside from that, Kain's quote when acquiring the spell is as follows.

"With this spell I can call upon the heavens to tear my enemies apart with its explosive power. Oh, how their bodies will rupture as the scything energy rips through them!"

Looking back at it, couldn't Kain steal Spider-man's soul wih Spirit Wrack? After freezing him in time with Incapacitate?

Incapacitate: "Through this magic, I can stop my enemies in their tracks. Frozen in time, they can do nothing to hinder their own doom. Sometimes, I draw out their fate, for the added fear sweetens their blood."

Spirit Wack: "With this spell I can tear a creature's soul from its body, leaving its vacant flesh mine to control!"

ScreamPaste
He has to actually hit Spidey with incapacitate, which I don't see happening stick out tongue also, isn't there a meter you have to fill to use spirit wrack?

Astner
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
isn't there a meter you have to fill to use spirit wrack?
Yeah, it's a spell. I thought he started at full-power. Well there are also less potent spells like "Control Mind". I don't know I still think Kain has a pretty good chance.

Omega Vision
I don't think we should take game mechanics into account personally.

ScreamPaste
Yeah, does seem logical to start him out in top shape, eh? Still, he's got a limitted amount of magic to snag Spidey with.

Astner
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Yeah, does seem logical to start him out in top shape, eh? Still, he's got a limitted amount of magic to snag Spidey with.
If he successfully casted Soul Wack at Spider-man, it would be over. I mean, he tear out the soul of the victim's body and the soulless body becomes his slave. It would be Marvel Zombies all over again

ScreamPaste
Zombie Spiderman was ossim. estahuh

Edit: Can't seem to find a video of spirit wrack. This is going to make debating the point difficult. mmm

RE: Blaxican
It would be REALLY nice if the majority of the people who voted for the ****ing thread would participate in it, not just three or four of them. It kind of defeats the purpose of voting in the first place... this isn't like voting for your favorite TV show and sitting back and watching it unfold. erm

jalek moye
pretty much

Parmaniac
Maybe for the next nominations we should directly state who we think would win (at least in our opinion) and people that nod the thread also say their opinion and if everyone says character A wins we throw the thread away cause it's one sided.

EDIT: No reasons WHY character A or B wins just the result.

jalek moye
I'm for that

Etna
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
It would be REALLY nice if the majority of the people who voted for the ****ing thread would participate in it, not just three or four of them. It kind of defeats the purpose of voting in the first place... this isn't like voting for your favorite TV show and sitting back and watching it unfold. erm

sad he is right...

StiltmanFTW
no expression

There's no way puny parker could beat Kain. It's just stupid. And spite.

Etna
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
no expression

There's no way puny parker could beat Kain. It's just stupid. And spite.

prove it and make this debate more interesting then. erm

Astner
Replaying Blood Omen I actually think that victory might come easy to Kain. He has equipment renders the bones clean from flesh and even more frightning spells.

Consider the following spells' efficiency in unison.

Repel

"Invoking this spell cloaks me under a protective aegis. Whatever spell is cast at me will be reflected back at the caster, leaving me unharmed. It will only last for a short time, however, before leaving me vulnerable once more."

Slow Time

"At times, my magic extends into very exotic disciplines such as the manipulation of time. I am able to slow time down, so I can move about quick as a wolf, while all others move as though they were mired in mud."

Incapacitate (projectile)

"Through this magic, I can stop my enemies in their tracks. Frozen in time, they can do nothing to hinder their own doom. Sometimes, I draw out their fate, for the added fear sweetens their blood."

Control Mind

"This spell allows me to enslave my enemies, giving me control of their bodies. When I release my grip, their bodies will shrivel and die, as I displace their souls, and replace them with my own."

Spirit Death

"'Tis a spell worthy of the Necromancer himself. This allows me to dissect a creature's soul from its vessel of flesh. For these poor wretches, only oblivion awaits."

Spirit Wack

"With this spell I can tear a creature's soul from its body, leaving its vacant flesh mine to control!"

Lightning

"With this spell I can call upon the heavens to tear my enemies apart with its explosive power. Oh, how their bodies will rupture as the scything energy rips through them!"

In Blood Omen 2, Kain learned the ability Immolate which instantly reduced all nearby foes to ashes.

And with Chaos Armor the damage inflicted on Kain by an enemy will open wounds on that enemy. And the Soul Reaver flays the soul of the enemy with a mere touch of the blade.

ScreamPaste
Kain lost all of his BO1 spells when he was defeated by the Sarafan lord, actually. Including Repel. stick out tongue

Also, Pete's got some will power feats, I don't think his mind is gonna be controlled.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Etna
prove it and make this debate more interesting then. erm

Telekinesis. Frankly, it's all I need to say on this forum.

Picking the dumbass bugboy against KAIN. Wow.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Telekinesis. Frankly, it's all I need to say on this forum.

Picking the dumbass bugboy against KAIN. Wow. Kain's TK is weak and Pete has a tether and precog. Kain's gonna need to work hard to hit the much faster Spiderman with something that'll put him down.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Kain lost all of his BO1 spells when he was defeated by the Sarafan lord, actually. Including Repel. stick out tongue

Also, Pete's got some will power feats, I don't think his mind is gonna be controlled. Actually it was more often than not. HIs TP resistance isn't really top notch.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Kain lost all of his BO1 spells when he was defeated by the Sarafan lord, actually. Including Repel. stick out tongue

Also, Pete's got some will power feats, I don't think his mind is gonna be controlled.

When did Kain lose Repel? Didn't he use it in SR1/ on the beginning of SR2?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Kain's TK is weak and Pete has a tether and precog. Kain's gonna need to work hard to hit the much faster Spiderman with something that'll put him down.

Does Parker have ANY feats showing his resistance against telekinesis...? I don't think so.

ScreamPaste
He wakes up in BO2 without any of his former spells. This is sort of a major plot point. He may have used it in the battle before he lost to the Sarafan Lord, but he lost it none the less. The Sarafan lord even took the reaver from him.

Actually, he does. He overcame a bunch of nanobots under the control of Doc Ock. no expression Since Kain's only spells of mind control are 100% featless and only work on Mooks, not any named characters that I know of, why would they work on Pete?

Parmaniac
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Does Parker have ANY feats showing his resistance against telekinesis...? I don't think so. Not entirely sure what you mean by AGAINST

but here is one, Kris Blaze once said one of these guys has TK not sure which one though I only know Firestar and Speedball.
http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/4769/agilityavoids5superhuma.jpg

And he fought Typhod Mary

But going by the description of the spell list I most likely change my opinion.

BruceSkywalker
Iron Spidey for the majority

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
He wakes up in BO2 without any of his former spells. This is sort of a major plot point. He may have used it in the battle before he lost to the Sarafan Lord, but he lost it none the less. The Sarafan lord even took the reaver from him.

Actually, he does. He overcame a bunch of nanobots under the control of Doc Ock. no expression Since Kain's only spells of mind control are 100% featless and only work on Mooks, not any named characters that I know of, why would they work on Pete?

He used it in the intro video of SR2 erm

I said telekinesis, not telepathy.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Not entirely sure what you mean by AGAINST

but here is one, Kris Blaze once said one of these guys has TK not sure which one though I only know Firestar and Speedball.
http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/4769/agilityavoids5superhuma.jpg

And he fought Typhod Mary

But going by the description of the spell list I most likely change my opinion.

Speedball and Firestar I recognize. They don't have TK. Justice does (and yes, he's here). I dunno what he was thinking, but it's PIS if his powers didn't work on Peter. Maybe he couldn't get a beat on him? Well, Kain does have superhuman reflexes, so it shouldn't be hard...

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He used it in the intro video of SR2 erm

I said telekinesis, not telepathy.



Speedball and Firestar I recognize. They don't have TK. Justice does (and yes, he's here). I dunno what he was thinking, but it's PIS if his powers didn't work on Peter. Maybe he couldn't get a beat on him? Well, Kain does have superhuman reflexes, so it shouldn't be hard...
Musta been something else. no expression Him losing all his shit is a large plot point in BO2.

Misread, also, I already explained why TK isn't that useful, Spidey can escape it, and catching him is very unlikely.



......Did you say Kain has superhuman reflexes? Feat please, because he's never once demonstrated this. no expression

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Musta been something else. no expression Him losing all his shit is a large plot point in BO2.

Pretty sure it was Repel. If it were just a similar spell, it would still pwn Peter.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Misread, also, I already explained why TK isn't that useful, Spidey can escape it, and catching him is very unlikely.

Has he ever escaped it the way you described...?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
......Did you say Kain has superhuman reflexes? Feat please, because he's never once demonstrated this. no expression

Oh, that's pretty simple. You react much faster than NPCs, right? biscuits

Sorry, I've never seen a point in bringing computer game characters in this kind of debate...

ScreamPaste
IIRC Repel only works on spells anyway. no expression

I believe so actually, owned a comic where he fought a telekinetic who's name I forget in the 90's. She drew a line down the center of her face and stuff. mmm

Wait, wut. no expression

Parmaniac
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I believe so actually, owned a comic where he fought a telekinetic who's name I forget in the 90's. She drew a line down the center of her face and stuff. mmm Typhoid Mary

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Typhoid Mary Thank you kindly, sir.

quanchi112
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Musta been something else. no expression Him losing all his shit is a large plot point in BO2.

Misread, also, I already explained why TK isn't that useful, Spidey can escape it, and catching him is very unlikely.



......Did you say Kain has superhuman reflexes? Feat please, because he's never once demonstrated this. no expression So you missed the part where it was a major plot point where Kin was stronger, faster, stronger than any mortal man by a mile while weakened. Wow.

MooCowofJustice
You know you said stronger twice, right?

How much stronger? How much faster? Spider-Man is a lot stronger and faster than any human, too.

quanchi112
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
You know you said stronger twice, right?

How much stronger? How much faster? Spider-Man is a lot stronger and faster than any human, too. He questioned his superhuman reflexes I corrected him. It's a major point in the game he's wrong I am right.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by quanchi112
He questioned his superhuman reflexes I corrected him. It's a major point in the game he's wrong I am right. No, you're not, because Kain has never once, ever demonstrated superhuman reflexes. Find me a feat.

Edit: Also, "faster" is vauge, he might just be able to sprint better than Ben Johnson assuming the quote's not a piece of crappy hyperbole.

quanchi112
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
No, you're not, because Kain has never once, ever demonstrated superhuman reflexes. Find me a feat.

Edit: Also, "faster" is vauge, he might just be able to sprint better than Ben Johnson assuming the quote's not a piece of crappy hyperbole. Did you play blood omen 2?

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by quanchi112
Did you play blood omen 2? Yes, beat it.

Kain never once demonstrated superhuman reflexes through out the entire game.

MooCowofJustice
You should provide proof instead of calling him wrong because he may not have played the game.

I think he did, anyway. Lol.

quanchi112
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Yes, beat it.

Kain never once demonstrated superhuman reflexes through out the entire game. Then you never played the game I take it.Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
You should provide proof instead of calling him wrong because he may not have played the game.

I think he did, anyway. Lol. I'll get to that.

quanchi112

MooCowofJustice
K, so he's above any human from LoK. Neat.

quanchi112
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
K, so he's above any human from LoK. Neat. Yes, at his weakest he's well above any human being. he can tear human hearts out through armor do you think that takes strength?

ScreamPaste

quanchi112
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
1. GJ shooting your own argument in the foot. ZOMG, vampires are above humans, who knew? It doesn't actually say "faster than any mortal man", either. You've weakened an already weak positon.
2. I just told you I played the game, and that Kain never demonstrates super human reflexes, and he doesn't. No feats, at all.
3. It's already agreed Kain is physicly stronger than spidey, but ti doesn't matter because he can't catch Spidey, who is much, much faster than him. So you take this statement to mean he is only faster than certain mortal men not all?

What is berserk mode from bo2? are those slow attacks or are they fast attacks?

How is spiderman much faster than him?

ScreamPaste
laughing I'll let you stew in this until morning, am tired. Maybe you should look at the scans on page one.

Astner
Kain telekinesis is by no means weak.

3Br1HDoG-7g

2:25

Kain throws Raziel a great distance shattering the structure he lands in.

Etna
And Kain didn't even aim...Once Raziel got close, voom! I'm starting to think Kain is being under estimated here

But, Spiderman would of spider sensed that TK.

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by Etna
And Kain didn't even aim...Once Raziel got close, voom! I'm starting to think Kain is being under estimated here

But, Spiderman would of spider sensed that TK.

If I'm correct you can't really spider-sense TK. I mean it's focusing on your body not the area your body is in. Someone feel free to correct me however.

The Scenario
There's a big difference between using TK to manipulate something and using a "TK burst" like what Kain was doing in the other video.

YTEuHj83vmw

Around 6:00 is a more traditional TK.

quanchi112
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
laughing I'll let you stew in this until morning, am tired. Maybe you should look at the scans on page one. So you respond to one part and don't even answer that question. Concession accepted.
Originally posted by The Scenario
There's a big difference between using TK to manipulate something and using a "TK burst" like what Kain was doing in the other video.

YTEuHj83vmw

Around 6:00 is a more traditional TK. What's the difference?

ScreamPaste
Kain actively needs to gesture and aim his TK, Spidey would be very hard to catch, and I don't see why his precog wouldn't be set off O.o

But yeah, Spidey can dode lasers and guns and stuff with relative ease, and Kain's best TK lift/hold feat is basicly a human without super-strength and no tether to escape. stick out tongue Factor in that Kain needs to actively gesture, and I think Kain will have a hard time catching his opponent.

I also agree that a TK push is very different from a hold. Similar to the difference between a force push and a force crush.

ScreamPaste
I did tell you to check the scans on page one, apparently you're too lazy. no expression Lol@my concession? Spider Man is factually much, much faster than Kain.

I'd like to add that Astner was doing a pretty good job supporting Kain before you got here and started making claims that cannot be supported. >|

quanchi112
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Kain actively needs to gesture and aim his TK, Spidey would be very hard to catch, and I don't see why his precog wouldn't be set off O.o

But yeah, Spidey can dode lasers and guns and stuff with relative ease, and Kain's best TK lift/hold feat is basicly a human without super-strength and no tether to escape. stick out tongue Factor in that Kain needs to actively gesture, and I think Kain will have a hard time catching his opponent.

I also agree that a TK push is very different from a hold. Similar to the difference between a force push and a force crush. Why does he need to aim in when we clearly see when Raziel gets close to him it knocks him across the room.

There was a video showing he doesn't need to actively gesture just stand there basically and launch any foe a considerable distance away.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I did tell you to check the scans on page one, apparently you're too lazy. no expression Lol@my concession? Spider Man is factually much, much faster than Kain.

I'd like to add that Astner was doing a pretty good job supporting Kain before you got here and started making claims that cannot be supported. >| Requote it I have read numerous comics with Spiderman and although he's fast I don't see any proof he's considerably faster than Kain.

I backed my case and the soulreaver video is common knowledge since you said you played these games but you were being dishonest since you acted like you never saw it before.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by quanchi112
Why does he need to aim in when we clearly see when Raziel gets close to him it knocks him across the room.

There was a video showing he doesn't need to actively gesture just stand there basically and launch any foe a considerable distance away.

Requote it I have read numerous comics with Spiderman and although he's fast I don't see any proof he's considerably faster than Kain.

I backed my case and the soulreaver video is common knowledge since you said you played these games but you were being dishonest since you acted like you never saw it before.
See cutscene Scenario posted, plx. What he used on Raziel was a push.

Already addressed.


It's on page one, I'm not requoting it, go to page one and actually read this thread, y'know, read before you post? Things you missed.

Also, lolwut? You've backed nothing, and make all the insinuations you want, until you post a feat, you're wrong.

quanchi112
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
See cutscene Scenario posted, plx. What he used on Raziel was a push.

Already addressed.


It's on page one, I'm not requoting it, go to page one and actually read this thread, y'know, read before you post? Things you missed.

Also, lolwut? You've backed nothing, and make all the insinuations you want, until you post a feat, you're wrong. That's tk and an attack. So really explain why it's not an effective attack and why he won't use it every time Spiderman gets close to him?

I read spiderman and asked you a question. You concede I win.

So are you saying ripping out human hearts through giant plates of armor isn't a strength feat? Do I have to post it? I mean you played the game so you should be aware of it, right?

Astner
Kain's speed--under the influence of Berserk--is quite impressive actually. May not look like it in the picture bellow, but still.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1125/earlydarkgiftsslowtime2.th.jpg

quanchi112
Originally posted by Astner
Kain's speed--under the influence of Berserk--is quite impressive actually. May not look like it in the picture bellow, but still.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1125/earlydarkgiftsslowtime2.th.jpg I already referenced this ability but even though screampaste claims he needs proof despite playing the game it's obvious he either didn't play the game or is purposefully ignoring Kain's portrayal and in game abilities.

I refuse myself to post vids if this guy claims he played the game.

ScreamPaste
1. It can be avoided.
2. Spiderman is much faster than Kain, and if Kain waits til Spidey is close, he'll already be gettign pummelled. no expression


Lol'd. How often to you pretend to win? It's kinda funny, but you need to learn something new. This'll get boring soon. sad


Like I said, read before you post. EVERYONE agrees KAin is physicly stronger, and it has nothing to do with your posts, Astner put forward a number, and I had a higher one. This is a moot point, you're trying to prove somethign no one is arguing against. Zomg, Kain can rip out hearts. So could spiderman if he wanted, he's a ten tonner IIRC.

Kain has no speed or reaction feats worth notice, however. Hell, his fastest shown attack is in 0.3 of a second, a normal human could get out of the way of that. haermm

Read the thread before you post, especially the scans at the beginning.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by Astner
Kain's speed--under the influence of Berserk--is quite impressive actually. May not look like it in the picture bellow, but still.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1125/earlydarkgiftsslowtime2.th.jpg Thanks, Astner. Dealing with Quan gets old after awhile. stick out tongue I remember this ability, actually, but IIRC, isn't the speed boost sort of minimal? Around 50% or so? That is helpful indeed, but Spidey will still be faster not counting his precog.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I already referenced this ability but even though screampaste claims he needs proof despite playing the game it's obvious he either didn't play the game or is purposefully ignoring Kain's portrayal and in game abilities.

I refuse myself to post vids if this guy claims he played the game.
How about proving the degree to which it's helpful? Played and beat BO2, was fun, but Kain never once displayed a reaction or speed feat. Berserk is an ability that can amp him, but it's only in gameplay and is sorta low on actual feats. We can go by how much it speeds him up, get a rouch percentage, but spidey still has his precog and will still be faster without it. This'll also put a dent in Kain's magic reserves.

quanchi112
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
1. It can be avoided.
2. Spiderman is much faster than Kain, and if Kain waits til Spidey is close, he'll already be gettign pummelled. no expression


Lol'd. How often to you pretend to win? It's kinda funny, but you need to learn something new. This'll get boring soon. sad


Like I said, read before you post. EVERYONE agrees KAin is physicly stronger, and it has nothing to do with your posts, Astner put forward a number, and I had a higher one. This is a moot point, you're trying to prove somethign no one is arguing against. Zomg, Kain can rip out hearts. So could spiderman if he wanted, he's a ten tonner IIRC.

Kain has no speed or reaction feats worth notice, however. Hell, his fastest shown attack is in 0.3 of a second, a normal human could get out of the way of that. haermm

Read the thread before you post, especially the scans at the beginning. 1.To avoid it he has to move away and when he gets back close again there it comes again.

You refuse to post the feats you say you were referring to. Do you need me to tell you how?

Not just ripping out hearts but doing so through thick armor. If you played the games why do I need to prove he's strong if you played the game? Next thing I'll hear is prove Superman can fly out of you.

So now gameplay itself means he isn't shown to be very fast in the game. I already said berserk shows he's incredibly fast yet you avoided it when I asked you about it.


Actually respond to my posts not one sentence and then avoid answering that question as well.

jalek moye
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
If I'm correct you can't really spider-sense TK. I mean it's focusing on your body not the area your body is in. Someone feel free to correct me however.

A push like burst would get picked up, and irrc his spider sense picked up Typhoid mary's tk

quanchi112
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Thanks, Astner. Dealing with Quan gets old after awhile. stick out tongue I remember this ability, actually, but IIRC, isn't the speed boost sort of minimal? Around 50% or so? That is helpful indeed, but Spidey will still be faster not counting his precog.


How about proving the degree to which it's helpful? Played and beat BO2, was fun, but Kain never once displayed a reaction or speed feat. Berserk is an ability that can amp him, but it's only in gameplay and is sorta low on actual feats. We can go by how much it speeds him up, get a rouch percentage, but spidey still has his precog and will still be faster without it. This'll also put a dent in Kain's magic reserves. Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Yes, beat it.

Kain never once demonstrated superhuman reflexes through out the entire game. Originally posted by quanchi112
So you take this statement to mean he is only faster than certain mortal men not all?

What is berserk mode from bo2? are those slow attacks or are they fast attacks?

How is spiderman much faster than him? I already stated berserk mode you dodged then and now when someone posted the video you agree so you really never played the game. Like usual I am right and you are wrong.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by quanchi112
1.To avoid it he has to move away and when he gets back close again there it comes again.

You refuse to post the feats you say you were referring to. Do you need me to tell you how?

Not just ripping out hearts but doing so through thick armor. If you played the games why do I need to prove he's strong if you played the game? Next thing I'll hear is prove Superman can fly out of you.

So now gameplay itself means he isn't shown to be very fast in the game. I already said berserk shows he's incredibly fast yet you avoided it when I asked you about it.


Actually respond to my posts not one sentence and then avoid answering that question as well.
mariofacepalm Did you even read my post? Seriously?

Me:
Spidey is fast enough to avoid a push, and if Kain waits til Spidey is close it will be too late.
You:
If Spidey's close he has to move away to avoid it!

Difference? There are feats to support Spidey's speed.

Me:
I tell you Kain is stronger, and that I actually posted the highest number for his strength in this thread.
You:
You ignore this and ask me if I want more proof Kain is strong, while posting a pathetic strength feat.

Difference: You OBVIOUSLY didn't read my post.

Also, I tell you the scans are on page one, and that you should read a thread you're participating in. You ignore me, and continue to badger me to quote Parmaniac when you could EASILY click the little "1" and go look for yourself.


The difference is, you were trying to use it as a feat, which it is not. I have played the game, so keep claiming I haven't, but whatever I seem to know more about it than you do since you can't even quote the freakin' dialogue right AND try to use the dialogue and some of Kain's weakest feats (a heart rip, really?) to make a no-limit fallacy Kain is stronger/faster than everyone because he's implied to be stronger/faster than most humans in his own universe. GJ.

Astner
The trailer for Blood Omen 2 might be useful.

iHYEa8b8mjA

Though the methods in Blood Omen were a lot crueler, and we don't know how many of the he retreived after his sleep.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by Astner
The trailer for Blood Omen 2 might be useful.

iHYEa8b8mjA

Though the methods in Blood Omen were a lot crueler, and we don't know how many of the he retreived after his sleep. Thank you again, Astner, the section with Berserk is particularly helpful for figuring out just how fast it makes him. smile

The Scenario
Originally posted by quanchi112
What's the difference?

What Kain did to Raziel was a TK "Burst" where he just launches something away from himself. It's brute force, not much control. What Kain did to Moebius was actual TK, with fine control so he can move things at will.

The argument was that Kain could hold Spiderman still to attack him. The burst can't do this, but the controlled TK can. Unfortunately, Kain needs to gesture to use the controlled version, which Spiderman can easily avoid.

ScreamPaste
So, in the gameplay video, Kain achieves just under 3 full 180 degree arc swings with his weapon, while using Berserk.

Is we call it 2.8 attacks that's 0.35 seconds for him to aim and swing a full 180 arc. Lemme do some quick math.

Astner
Couldn't Kain use Charm lv. 3 on Spider-man? Otherwise Immolate would be the only way to go (incinerates all enemies instantly save for the final boss, the Sarafan Lord) which is a demon deity of sorts. He still received heavy damage from the spell though.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
So, in the gameplay video, Kain achieves just under 3 full 180 degree arc swings with his weapon, while using Berserk.

Is we call it 2.8 attacks that's 0.35 seconds for him to aim and swing a full 180 arc. Lemme do some quick math.
Keep in mind, that's Berserk lv. 2, there's a higher level still.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by jalek moye
A push like burst would get picked up, and irrc his spider sense picked up Typhoid mary's tk Yes it does I checked it, once she wasn't triggering it but that was cause she's a shizophrenic.

Spectacular Spider-man V1 213

ScreamPaste
Alright, assuming Kain is 6 feet tall and the reaver's blade is 4 feet long (assuming a fully extended straight armed single handed grip, when he obviously prefers to use both hands, and thus will have a smaller perimeter):

The radius of a full 360 degree swing would be 7 feet, and it's full perimeter would be 43.9 feet. Divide that by 2, for a 180, and we get a generous 21.9 feet travelled by the very trip of his sword.

Now, we multiple this by 2.8 to find out how far it would travel in a full second.

61.5 feet per second with berserk on, for the very tip of his sword.


Edit: How much better would you say Berserk 3 is, Astner? Also, not sure if Charm 3 would be effective or not. I know Spidey's been effected by things like that before, but he's also resisted them before.

The question is how powerful it needs to be to do the former.

Astner
I would also like to add that in Soul Reaver there were vampires that could efficiently react to and counter Raziel's sound-wave (Sound glyph) and in Soul Reaver II Raziel could easily dodge bullets.

6QIdsD8NQjc

4:50

Astner
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Alright, assuming Kain is 6 feet tall and the reaver's blade is 4 feet long (assuming a fully extended straight armed single handed grip, when he obviously prefers to use both hands, and thus will have a smaller perimeter):

The radius of a full 360 degree swing would be 7 feet, and it's full perimeter would be 43.9 feet. Divide that by 2, for a 180, and we get a generous 21.9 feet travelled by the very trip of his sword.

Now, we multiple this by 2.8 to find out how far it would travel in a full second.

61.5 feet per second with berserk on, for the very tip of his sword.
Problem is that it's a calculation based off game mechanics. In the game everything from bullets to shock-waves (both faster than sound) seem to move rather slowly. Furthermore you assume that all swings were visible and accounted for. The rotor of a helicopter might seem slower than it actually is.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
And to be fair, Spider-man isn't much faster than Captain America, his spider-sense account for a lot. He usually operates at speeds comparable to that of cars on the streets of New York.

Edit: How much better would you say Berserk 3 is, Astner? Also, not sure if Charm 3 would be effective or not. I know Spidey's been effected by things like that before, but he's also resisted them before.

The question is how powerful it needs to be to do the former.
It was a long time ago, but the final stage of each ability was rather impressive compared to the previous version. But I'd say a factor 2 at the most.

ScreamPaste
Well, actually, primitive bullets had a wide variance of speed, and not all shockwaves move quite so quickly, but to be fair to myself and my calculations:

I'm only working with what I have. There's really no other evidence for exactly how fast it is. The best feat it has is basicly the gameplay. I can't really assume more thna I can see.


Also, I didn't type that Captain America blurb O-o; But Spidey can IIRC outrun cars, but swings and jumps much more quickly.

As for Raziel easily dodging bullets, I went to 4:50 all I really saw was an enemy with a primitive gun shoot at him in optional gameplay and stuff. Is there a canon instance of Raziel specificly dodging a bullet after it's fired?

illadelph12
Hmm...

I'm actually leaning more towards Kain than Spiderman. Seems like he has the tools to beat Peter.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by illadelph12
Hmm...

I'm actually leaning more towards Kain than Spiderman. Seems like he has the tools to beat Peter. Astner's got me convinced it's not a stomp, but I am still leaning towards Spiderman for majority.

The simple problem is Kain has to tag spidey to win, and Spidey has shown how hard that can be.

jalek moye
I'm still thinking Spidey but he would defintely have to work hard for it

Etna
Sorry if this was already stated. But what is Kains durability? Would Spiderman be able to hurt Kain

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by Etna
Sorry if this was already stated. But what is Kains durability? Would Spiderman be able to hurt Kain Well, Dumah, the most physicly durable vampire was impaled by humans. Kain had his heart ripped out by Raziel. Spiderman should be able to knock him around and put him down.

jalek moye
Giving Spidey's track record unless Kain is really high up there in durability Spidey will be able to effect him even if not right away.

quanchi112
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
mariofacepalm Did you even read my post? Seriously?

Me:
Spidey is fast enough to avoid a push, and if Kain waits til Spidey is close it will be too late.
You:
If Spidey's close he has to move away to avoid it!

Difference? There are feats to support Spidey's speed.

Me:
I tell you Kain is stronger, and that I actually posted the highest number for his strength in this thread.
You:
You ignore this and ask me if I want more proof Kain is strong, while posting a pathetic strength feat.

Difference: You OBVIOUSLY didn't read my post.

Also, I tell you the scans are on page one, and that you should read a thread you're participating in. You ignore me, and continue to badger me to quote Parmaniac when you could EASILY click the little "1" and go look for yourself.


The difference is, you were trying to use it as a feat, which it is not. I have played the game, so keep claiming I haven't, but whatever I seem to know more about it than you do since you can't even quote the freakin' dialogue right AND try to use the dialogue and some of Kain's weakest feats (a heart rip, really?) to make a no-limit fallacy Kain is stronger/faster than everyone because he's implied to be stronger/faster than most humans in his own universe. GJ. You never proved Spiderman can get close enough long enough to do the damage necessary to win the matchup. Earth to paste.

I asked you which feats and you conceded.

What, I said the game portrays him as very fast and cited berserk mode which is a straightforward ability from the game. Why would I have to put up a link showing what this ability does if you played the game? Think before you speak.

quanchi112
Originally posted by The Scenario
What Kain did to Raziel was a TK "Burst" where he just launches something away from himself. It's brute force, not much control. What Kain did to Moebius was actual TK, with fine control so he can move things at will.

The argument was that Kain could hold Spiderman still to attack him. The burst can't do this, but the controlled TK can. Unfortunately, Kain needs to gesture to use the controlled version, which Spiderman can easily avoid. He can use this as an effective attack and can gesture immediately afterwards to choke him out based on the abilities he has displayed.

The Scenario
Originally posted by quanchi112
He can use this as an effective attack and can gesture immediately afterwards to choke him out based on the abilities he has displayed.

He's not fast enough to use it before Spiderman puts a fist through his skull. Even if he could, Spiderman is quick enough to recover or get out of the way. Then likely cover Kain's face with webbing.

And, if you aren't going to check and Scream isn't going to get the quote, I'll do it.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Agility
http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/4769/agilityavoids5superhuma.jpg
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/505/agilityavoidsblastsfrom.jpg
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/4482/agilityavoidsbullets3mk.jpg
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/214/agilityavoidslasersfrom.jpg
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/9716/lanternssmv156.jpg
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/1029/agilitybeatsmrxinnerdem.jpg

Durability
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/3796/durabilitytakesanexplos.jpg
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/8951/durabilitytakesseverale.jpg
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/8951/durabilitytakesseverale.jpg

Iron Spider Suit
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/8490/ironspiderbulletproof1a.jpg
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/404/ironspiderbulletproof2a.jpg
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8819/ironspidercostumefeatur.jpg
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/8819/ironspidercostumefeatur.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8819/ironspidercostumefeatur.jpg

Jump
http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/1158/jumpgiantleap1ssmv1260.jpg
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/5263/jumpingvlp04.jpg

Speed
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3473/speedrescuesapersonfrom.jpg
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/6041/speedfasterthanthehuman.jpg
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/553/speedfasterthantheeyesm.jpg
http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/9044/speedgreengoblinstatest.jpg

Strength
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/6992/strengthliftsatraincara.jpg
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/5196/strengthcarefullyliftsa.jpg
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/5196/strengthcarefullyliftsa.jpg
http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/9748/strengthstopsatruckasmv.jpg

Webbing
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/3189/webbingcarryingcapacity.jpg
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/3189/webbingcarryingcapacity.jpg
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/3189/webbingcarryingcapacity.jpg
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/3189/webbingcarryingcapacity.jpg
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/3189/webbingcarryingcapacity.jpg
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/5506/webbingfireresistantssm.jpg

Spider-Sense
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2397/spidersensewosmv209.jpg
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/9149/spidersensedifferentlev.jpg
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/9149/spidersensedifferentlev.jpg
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/9149/spidersensedifferentlev.jpg

Astner
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Well, Dumah, the most physicly durable vampire was impaled by humans. Kain had his heart ripped out by Raziel. Spiderman should be able to knock him around and put him down.
The Sarafan guards are far from regular humans, also as soon as the spears were removed Dumah was a tank easily breaking through foot- and handcuffs as nothing.

NyqnHc_syM4

Kain's mist form however makes him impervious to any physical damage. But you're right, there aren't many durability feats in the Legacy of Kain series.

Originally posted by The Scenario
He's not fast enough to use it before Spiderman puts a fist through his skull. Even if he could, Spiderman is quick enough to recover or get out of the way. Then likely cover Kain's face with webbing.
Spider-man isn't that fast and his spider-sense is in no way shape or form an increase of speed. If Kain truley forgot all the spells he learned in Blood Omen, aside from the ones regained, then Spider-man has a chance and will win if Immolate proves to be inefficient. If not, Kain will rip the soul right out of him.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by quanchi112
You never proved Spiderman can get close enough long enough to do the damage necessary to win the matchup. Earth to paste.

I asked you which feats and you conceded.

What, I said the game portrays him as very fast and cited berserk mode which is a straightforward ability from the game. Why would I have to put up a link showing what this ability does if you played the game? Think before you speak. My God, you are hopeless.

Spiderman is faster, more agile, with better relfexes, more mobility, ect, how could he NOT get close to Kain? Is Kain gonna TK push? Spidey's precog kicks in and he avoids, keeps coming before Kain can do it again. Plus Kain has limmited magic and Spidey has great stamina.

laughing Directing you to read the thread is a concession? No. The feats have been posted, you simply choose to not look at them.

An ability =/= a feat. Berserk is a dark gift that amps him slightly. It is not a speed feat, a reflex feat, it's just Kain going berserk. Also, lol@ you still trying to insinuating I haven't played. Can you show me a feat? No? HEEEY, maybe you haven't played it. no expression You can't seem to list any feats from the game you claim to have played. haermm

Etna
the only game related to Kain i ever played was Blood Omen 2 (I loved that game!)

But if I remember correctly...Whenever Kain used the Jump Power, wasn't he so fast that everything else/people stood still? Giving him the ability to pounce from far away.
This is straight from memory of like 8 or 7 yrs ago, correct me if I'm wrong.

Astner
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Spiderman is faster, more agile, with better relfexesreflexes, more mobility, ect, how could he NOT get close to Kain?
First off, he's not faster for certain. He's in the league of Captain America and Daredevil, which both are significantly slower than sound according to the hand books--fact is, for Daredevil to react to something faster than sound would be to react to something he can't sense--while Raziel can dodge gunfire and his foes can react to the sound glyph (sound wave). Now it's fair to give Spider-man a 10-20% speed advantage plus the spider-sense so that he can maneuver that speed properly but as soon as he hits can thoughtlessly he's going to get caught.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Is Kain gonna TK push? Spidey's precog kicks in and he avoids, keeps coming before Kain can do it again.
A push would be a foolish move on Kain's part. The reason he pushed away Raziel was to gain time, he said it himself, and I quote: "You nearly had me, Raziel. But this is not where, or how, it ends. Fate promises more twists before this drama unfolds completely", and that was before any Kinetic Statis upgrades.

When he latter battle Raziel he makes good use of his upgraded version where he chains Raziel helplessly to the air before mashing him into a wall or into the sword in his hand.

Kain's description of Kinetic Statis: "Reinforcing my brute telekinetic abilities with exact technique I am able to temporarily shackle my enemies in mid air with chains of force."

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Plus Kain has limmitedlimited magic and Spidey has great stamina.
The great stamina will only come to use if Spider-man survives Kain's magic. Which due to its unlikely nature is the main issue at hand.

Originally posted by Etna
the only game related to Kain i ever played was Blood Omen 2 (I loved that game!)
The worst of the lot. Blood Omen is the greatest, followed by either Soul Reaver or Soul Reaver II, further followed by Defience and finally Blood Omen II. It's a great series.

Originally posted by Etna
But if I remember correctly...Whenever Kain used the Jump Power, wasn't he so fast that everything else/people stood still? Giving him the ability to pounce from far away.
This is straight from memory of like 8 or 7 yrs ago, correct me if I'm wrong.
Probably just an effect. It's fully possible (and rather easy) to make a calculation for the initial velocity required to leap a given distance given the maximum height and length of the parabel.

SamZED
Im a huge Spider-man fan but have to admit that this is spite. There's no way Pete wins this. Kain is pretty much unkillable. Can tk choke Pete or freeze time and rip Pete's sould out. SM wont be able to hurt Kain in his mist form. And when Kain uses teleportation (at least that's how its shown in the gameplay) he blitzes opponents Nightcrawler style. The guy's just too powerfull.

Astner
Since this isn't the final version of Jump I won't make any detailed calculation (taking wind resitance into consideration through integration).

Feel free to comment or ask questions.

http://a.imageshack.us/img51/8435/kaing.jpg

Since path is a parabola with the height approx. 1 m and the length approx. 30 m, we start of by splitting the main vector into two composant orthagonal to the map-line and then apply basic geometry.

http://a.imageshack.us/img718/9171/85213455.png

http://a.imageshack.us/img340/9368/30438230.png

http://a.imageshack.us/img715/5711/67888538.png

Or roughly 40% of the speed of sound in air at sea level with normal humidity.

MooCowofJustice
Captain America is a bullet timer, so you guys know. Pretty sure Spidey is easily above him as far as reaction timing goes. Then you add in the Spider Sense.

Parmaniac
laughing

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by Astner
First off, he's not faster for certain. He's in the league of Captain America and Daredevil, which both are significantly slower than sound according to the hand books--fact is, for Daredevil to react to something faster than sound would be to react to something he can't sense--while Raziel can dodge gunfire and his foes can react to the sound glyph (sound wave). Now it's fair to give Spider-man a 10-20% speed advantage plus the spider-sense so that he can maneuver that speed properly but as soon as he hits can thoughtlessly he's going to get caught.


A push would be a foolish move on Kain's part. The reason he pushed away Raziel was to gain time, he said it himself, and I quote: "You nearly had me, Raziel. But this is not where, or how, it ends. Fate promises more twists before this drama unfolds completely", and that was before any Kinetic Statis upgrades.

When he latter battle Raziel he makes good use of his upgraded version where he chains Raziel helplessly to the air before mashing him into a wall or into the sword in his hand.

Kain's description of Kinetic Statis: "Reinforcing my brute telekinetic abilities with exact technique I am able to temporarily shackle my enemies in mid air with chains of force."


The great stamina will only come to use if Spider-man survives Kain's magic. Which due to its unlikely nature is the main issue at hand.


The worst of the lot. Blood Omen is the greatest, followed by either Soul Reaver or Soul Reaver II, further followed by Defience and finally Blood Omen II. It's a great series.


Probably just an effect. It's fully possible (and rather easy) to make a calculation for the initial velocity required to leap a given distance given the maximum height and length of the parabel. Kain legitimately has no speed feats. no expression Spidey is practicly made of them. Also, what is this suddenly claiming Raziel's a casual bullet timer nonsense? The only instance you've shown of him even encountering a bullet is optional gameplay against an opponent with a primitive gun who made a single shot. O-o

Kain needs to gesture, and Spidey's got precog, and good reaction time, he could probably aim dodge it even without his spider-sense.

Spiderman canand will make his approach probably while harrassing Kain with webbing. (spell casting might be heard if he can't see or his arm is stuck to his side, coudl also cause problems for actually trying to fight spiderman upclose.)

I don't see how this is an issue. Kain's spells are largely featless outside of the TK used on Raziel, so even if he lands a lucky one, Spider-man will likely be able to continue the fight.


Also, correcting the typoes of a tired man is bad form. uhuhOriginally posted by SamZED
Im a huge Spider-man fan but have to admit that this is spite. There's no way Pete wins this. Kain is pretty much unkillable. Can tk choke Pete or freeze time and rip Pete's sould out. SM wont be able to hurt Kain in his mist form. And when Kain uses teleportation (at least that's how its shown in the gameplay) he blitzes opponents Nightcrawler style. The guy's just too powerfull.
Lolwut? Kain is very easy to KO and IIRC Unkillable due to PIS wasn't counted in forum battles?

Good luck to Kain catching pete and if he does, he's never TK choked anyone half as durable as spiderman, and Spiderman has a way out. Also, time freeze?, WAITAMINUTE. Now you're making shit up. The closest thing Kain has is a time aura whichactually slows Kain down slightly as well, (Math was done in games v.s.) and it's not a very potent one. If you're referring to incapacitate, there's no freakin' way he could ever, ever hit Spidey with that. no expression

Kain's mist form is only temporary, and Kain lacks the reaction time to outfight Spiderman, and his teleport is crap. no expression Hell, it takes most of his magic to use dimensional teleport, and it's actually quite slow, math shows it's within human reaction time, Spider-man with his precog? It's just a waste of effort by Kain. no expression

Kain really is not as powerful as you think, and I believe this is a very good fight. Still leaning to spidey takin' majority, but this is not a stomp in either direction.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by Astner
Since this isn't the final version of Jump I won't make any detailed calculation (taking wind resitance into consideration through integration).

Feel free to comment or ask questions.

http://a.imageshack.us/img51/8435/kaing.jpg

Since path is a parabola with the height approx. 1 m and the length approx. 30 m, we start of by splitting the main vector into two composant orthagonal to the map-line and then apply basic geometry.

http://a.imageshack.us/img718/9171/85213455.png

http://a.imageshack.us/img340/9368/30438230.png

http://a.imageshack.us/img715/5711/67888538.png

Or roughly 40% of the speed of sound in air at sea level with normal humidity. Based solely on the fact you post evidence and just did math, I think I like you. happy Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Captain America is a bullet timer, so you guys know. Pretty sure Spidey is easily above him as far as reaction timing goes. Then you add in the Spider Sense. I think I recall him avoiding a veritable hail of gunfire at the beginning of civil war?

SamZED
.

Astner
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Also, what is this suddenly claiming Raziel's a casual bullet timer nonsense? The only instance you've shown of him even encountering a bullet is optional gameplay against an opponent with a primitive gun who made a single shot.
Optional gameplay? It's one of many enemies, it's a legitimate character design with intentions. You further neglected to mention the Sound Glyph that was brought up, and how certain are able to react to it.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Kain needs to gesture, and Spidey's got precog, and good reaction time, he could probably aim dodge it even without his spider-sense.
As shown against Mobius, Kain can make use of both his hands simply by pointing. Even Spider-man would have trouble--if capable of--escaping that.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Spiderman can and will make his approach probably while harrassingharassing Kain with webbing. (spell casting might be heard if he can't see or his arm is stuck to his side, coudlcould also cause problems for actually trying to fight spiderman upclose.)
Webbing will be the least of Kain's worries, Mist Form and Immolate are each perfect counters.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Also, correcting the typoes of a tired man is bad form. uhuh
Is that why you didn't correct mine?

http://a.imageshack.us/img24/2773/namnlsym.jpg

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Based solely on the fact you post evidence and just did math, I think I like you. happy
Then I'm doing something wrong.

MooCowofJustice
Whoa did this thread suddenly get personal?

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by Astner
Optional gameplay? It's one of many enemies, it's a legitimate character design with intentions. You further neglected to mention the Sound Glyph that was brought up, and how certain are able to react to it.


As shown against Mobius, Kain can make use of both his hands simply by pointing. Even Spider-man would have trouble--if capable of--escaping that.


Webbing will be the least of Kain's worries, Mist Form and Immolate are each perfect counters.


Is that why you didn't correct mine?

http://a.imageshack.us/img24/2773/namnlsym.jpg


Then I'm doing something wrong.
Yes, and it's still optional gameplay. You can get hit, or not get hit, or he might never get to shoot, ect, there's no canon instance of Raziel dodging bullets, and especially not after they've been fired. Also, are you arguing super-sonic reaction time for Raziel's enemies based on their AI being programmed to avoid damage? >_>

Spidey's dodged things much more difficult than that with less que to do so before. no expression

Kain cannot maintain mist form, and has no reaction feats to say he can hit it before the webbing gets him. Sure, the web would fall off after, but Spidey can just anticipate where he'll be and lay down a Haymaker while Kain's not doing anything offensive.

Laziness, mostly.

I SEE HOW IT IS. sad

Also, would distance/time for speed not have been easier? no expression

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Whoa did this thread suddenly get personal? Indeed. Astner is not fond of me. uhuh I'm going to assume it's because I have a better hat.

SamZED
Originally posted by ScreamPaste

Also, correcting the typoes of a tired man is bad form. uhuh
Lolwut? Kain is very easy to KO and IIRC Unkillable due to PIS wasn't counted in forum battles?

Good luck to Kain catching pete and if he does, he's never TK choked anyone half as durable as spiderman, and Spiderman has a way out. Also, time freeze?, WAITAMINUTE. Now you're making shit up. The closest thing Kain has is a time aura whichactually slows Kain down slightly as well, (Math was done in games v.s.) and it's not a very potent one. If you're referring to incapacitate, there's no freakin' way he could ever, ever hit Spidey with that. no expression

Kain's mist form is only temporary, and Kain lacks the reaction time to outfight Spiderman, and his teleport is crap. no expression Hell, it takes most of his magic to use dimensional teleport, and it's actually quite slow, math shows it's within human reaction time, Spider-man with his precog? It's just a waste of effort by Kain. no expression

Kain really is not as powerful as you think, and I believe this is a very good fight. Still leaning to spidey takin' majority, but this is not a stomp in either direction. You know, you really should try debating without acting like a jerk. If you disagree with my post just say so, ill gladly hear you out and respond. No need for the "no expression" smilies and "lolwut/shit" stuff.

Kain is not easy to ko, in fact he's hard to ko. And all Spidey got is his fists and webs that can be easilly avoid with teleportation or mist form. And being unkillable for whatever reason isn't against the rules, dont know where you got that from.

Your statement that Kain's tk for some reason wont work on Spider-man holds no ground tbh and is purely speculation as Kain's tk has never failed him before. Also it seems you're under the wrong impression that Kain needs to "hit" SM with it for it to work, well its not the case, its not a projectile that travels through the air. There's no way for Spider-man to dodge this kind of attack. This option alone gives Kain 10/10 in a forum fight. "luck" has nothing to do with it.

Ok, not "freeze", "slow down" my mistake. Doesnt change a thing though. He can slow Pete down to a crawl and finish him off. Easy as that. Spider-man has no defence against that kind of attack.

"temporary" or not doesnt matter, it makes dodging Spider-man an easy task as Spider-man can't hit mist. And Kain can teleport fast as hell actually with him appearing behind someone's back and instantly slicing him to pieces, then appearing behind 3 other opponents and doing the same. SM might dodge it once or twice thanks to ss but not forever.

This is definitely spite. SM got his speed and fists that wont help against an opponent that can turn to mist, teleport, has tk and can slow down time. While Kain has every possible advantage here. I dont see how Spider-man could take any wins at all, especially CIS on.

Astner
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Whoa did this thread suddenly get personal?
No, I'm like that to everyone I don't know and don't want to know.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Also, would distance/time for speed not have been easier? no expression
No, on youtube.com you only get a second and minute counter leaving place for great marginal errors. But more importantly the screen was blurred during the jump leaving the possibility of slow motion rendering counting useless. It's easier to use steady factors.

ScreamPaste
This I legitimately do not do intentionally, it's actually kind of reflexive, and I apologise if I offended you.Originally posted by SamZED
You know, you really should try debating without acting like a jerk. If you disagree with my post just say so, ill gladly hear you out and respond. No need for the "no expression" smilies and "lolwut/shit" stuff.

Kain is not easy to ko, in fact he's hard to ko. And all Spidey got is his fists and webs that can be easilly avoid with teleportation or mist form. And being unkillable for whatever reason isn't against the rules, dont know where you got that from.

Your statement that Kain's tk for some reason wont work on Spider-man holds no ground tbh and is purely speculation as Kain's tk has never failed him before. Also it seems you're under the wrong impression that Kain needs to "hit" SM with it for it to work, well its not the case, its not a projectile that travels through the air. There's no way for Spider-man to dodge this kind of attack. This option alone gives Kain 10/10 in a forum fight. "luck" has nothing to do with it.

Ok, not "freeze", "slow down" my mistake. Doesnt change a thing though. He can slow Pete down to a crawl and finish him off. Easy as that. Spider-man has no defence against that kind of attack.

"temporary" or not doesnt matter, it makes dodging Spider-man an easy task as Spider-man can't hit mist. And Kain can teleport fast as hell actually with him appearing behind someone's back and instantly slicing him to pieces, then appearing behind 3 other opponents and doing the same. SM might dodge it once or twice thanks to ss but not forever.

This is definitely spite. SM got his speed and fists that wont help against an opponent that can turn to mist, teleport, has tk and can slow down time. While Kain has every possible advantage here. I dont see how Spider-man could take any wins at all, especially CIS on.

Durability feats? uhuh

Also, unkillable by way of PIS, sorta like how Ganondorf has plot device immortality unless you hit him with a specific sword. Common in video games, was under the impression such things aren't allowed, but meh, even with it, Spidey can still KO.

Oh, it'd work, if he could catch Spider-Man, Kain's TK is not omni-prestent he needs to actually focus on his target and grab them.

There's plenty of ways for Spiderman to dodge it, he's fought enemies with TK before. He can also escape TK if he is caught, and it does not give Kain 10/10, because it's not an instant win, at all.

He needs to:
1. catch spidey,
2. hold him and hope he doesn't escape,
3. actually tag spidey with something while managing 2, and Kain is not a speedster.

Let me put this bluntly.
His slow also slows Kain slightly and even if it didn't, Spidey would still be able to avoid any melee attacks, and when Spidey steps farther away, he's back at full speed. Spiderman's defense is his own speed and precog, the time aura slow is not as pronounced as you seem to think. O-o

It does not make dodging Spider-Man's attacks easy at all because Kain has no reaction feats at all. Not a single one to his name. Also, there's a Cutscene in defiance where Kain's teleport takes over a second to execute, his dimensional teleport, a gameplay only spell which is slow enough for normal people to react to, I repeat, inside normal human reaction time, let alone a guy with precog, is no issue, and Kain can't do it more than once, his magic is not infinite. Spidey's dodged things alot faster and more difficult to avoid than Kain's sword.


This is not spite at all, you're not giving Spider-man credit, while seeming to assume Kain has the speed to keep up with him. Nothing supports he can. Spidey can KO Kain pretty easily, and New York is his play ground. no expression

jalek moye
hmm i actually forgot that, the fact that this is all across new york makes this harder for Kain then it would be otherwise. And Spidey jumps around things alot in fights.

Etna
Originally posted by jalek moye
hmm i actually forgot that, the fact that this is all across new york makes this harder for Kain then it would be otherwise. And Spidey jumps around things alot in fights.

wouldn't that give spiderman an unfair advantage?



Another Question
Can't Kain control others to attack spiderman?
Or find some way to take advantage, maybe even use hostages

in fact, what is the rule of kain controling people? Can he control spiderman?

quanchi112
Originally posted by The Scenario
He's not fast enough to use it before Spiderman puts a fist through his skull. Even if he could, Spiderman is quick enough to recover or get out of the way. Then likely cover Kain's face with webbing.

And, if you aren't going to check and Scream isn't going to get the quote, I'll do it. Spiderman can't put a fist through his skull. I have no idea where you come up with this stuff.

What's webbing going to do to Kain other than inconvenience him?

Yeah, these feats are exaggerated.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
My God, you are hopeless.

Spiderman is faster, more agile, with better relfexes, more mobility, ect, how could he NOT get close to Kain? Is Kain gonna TK push? Spidey's precog kicks in and he avoids, keeps coming before Kain can do it again. Plus Kain has limmited magic and Spidey has great stamina.

laughing Directing you to read the thread is a concession? No. The feats have been posted, you simply choose to not look at them.

An ability =/= a feat. Berserk is a dark gift that amps him slightly. It is not a speed feat, a reflex feat, it's just Kain going berserk. Also, lol@ you still trying to insinuating I haven't played. Can you show me a feat? No? HEEEY, maybe you haven't played it. no expression You can't seem to list any feats from the game you claim to have played. haermm No, he isn't. You are wrong and Kain has abilities to knock him out of close range, can go into mist form and not be hit at all, cleave him at any point with his sword, and you yourself admit he is stronger than him. He's also more ruthless which also plays into Kain's benefit.

Spiderman can't avoid every attack that comes his way genius. I mean it's obvious you don't read spiderman and are basing this off a few feats where he avoided attacks. Laughs hard.

You said he wasn't fast his ability proves he's fast. Are you dense? I get that you never played the game but the proof is in the pudding he is portrayed as fast, strong, ruthless, athletic, and a monster yet you think he's weak, slow, stupid and can be killed by regular old humans.


It's Kain going really fast which you said he wasn't. You agreed it is proof and I pointed it out before astner and you cried about videos but if you played the game you shouldn't need to see any videos because a major ability should refresh your memory.

Power Cosmic II
what version of the soul reaver is used in this contest? I'm assuming it's the physical blade, and not raziel's wraith blade. Even then, the capabilities of the Soul Reaver differ from game to game...I think this needs to be established first of all.

Also...why the obssession over BO2 Kain? That's arguably the weakest incarnation of Kain among all the games, and BO2 isn't even part of the main continuity; it's an alternate timeline that was made possible by events in Soul Reaver 2. As far as "canon" Kain goes...he's the one in Defiance, not BO2.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by quanchi112
Spiderman can't put a fist through his skull. I have no idea where you come up with this stuff.

What's webbing going to do to Kain other than inconvenience him?

Yeah, these feats are exaggerated.

No, he isn't. You are wrong and Kain has abilities to knock him out of close range, can go into mist form and not be hit at all, cleave him at any point with his sword, and you yourself admit he is stronger than him. He's also more ruthless which also plays into Kain's benefit.

Spiderman can't avoid every attack that comes his way genius. I mean it's obvious you don't read spiderman and are basing this off a few feats where he avoided attacks. Laughs hard.

You said he wasn't fast his ability proves he's fast. Are you dense? I get that you never played the game but the proof is in the pudding he is portrayed as fast, strong, ruthless, athletic, and a monster yet you think he's weak, slow, stupid and can be killed by regular old humans.


It's Kain going really fast which you said he wasn't. You agreed it is proof and I pointed it out before astner and you cried about videos but if you played the game you shouldn't need to see any videos because a major ability should refresh your memory. You just denied Spiderman is faster, nothing you say matters anymore. Obviously you're in the wrong thread.

Spiderman can avoid the things Kain throws at him with the same ease I use to avoid a sleeping cat. The fastest anyone's suggested kain could move is 40% of the speed of sound, and ye know wut? Spidey has feats of dodgine hails of bullets and lasers and shit. no expression

No, the ability proves he can make himself faster, and math shows that even with it on he's no speedster.

Fast anf "faster" are not the same. Kain being "faster" than his base self really isn't impressive since he has no speed feats, and isn't "fast" to begin with.

The Scenario
Originally posted by quanchi112
Spiderman can't put a fist through his skull. I have no idea where you come up with this stuff.


Raziel could put a fist through Kain's chest, and Spiderman is similar strengthwise. I quoted you the scans Parmaniac already gave, do you have any evidence that says Kain could take a punch like that?



Inconvenience = distraction. That's all it needs to do.



Train cars can weigh between 50 and 80 tons, which puts Spiderman quite on par with Kain, despite Kain's only strength claim being ABC logic that isn't very convincing. Kain's only strength feats are from Blood Omen 2 gameplay, which he uses telekinesis to help with. The only argument I've seen (in other threads) for Kain's strength is that he overpowered Raziel, who can push two blocks that were mathed at 55 tons each. The evidence used to say Kain overpowered him?

Jws63E9dNN8

I don't really see it. Kain never pits his brute strength against Raziel once. Unless there are other feats I'm unaware of, Kain is stronger than a normal human (enough to tear out hearts and throw people) but he's never displayed a feat of strength rivaling Spiderman.

As for speed, Scream and Aster are currently covering this with maths, but I'll add that I've never seen anything truly above human from Kain speedwise. He might be faster than a human, but there's no way for me to tell how much. Whereas Spidermas is made of speed/reaction feats.

Durability I'll grant Kain, seeing as he did take some hits from Raziel. Of course, a weakened Raziel also ripped out Kain's heart. However, Spiderman in the scan has taken a propane tank explosion point blank without visible damage. The Iron-Spider suit is effectively bulletproof, too, and is explicitly heat resistent.

Spiderman still takes majority in my opinion.

Astner
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The fastest anyone's suggested kain could move is 40% of the speed of sound
Technically you have to take the conditions under consideration. Kain was weakened, the jump started from a stationary state and the ability Jump wasn't fully developed. His agility should be in the transonic range.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
and ye know wut? Spidey has feats of dodgine hails of bullets and lasers and shit. no expression
Spider-man never dodges lasers, and normally not even bullets. He evades it. He accomplishes this due to his spider-sense.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Raziel could put a fist through Kain's chest, and Spiderman is similar strengthwise.
Right. Captain America has dodged lasers, after seeing them. Guess he must be faster than light, huh?

Go by the hand books, they contain the official statistics and values and work as the "rules". Just because you moved your pawn 3 steps in a game of chess doesn't mean that pawns actually can move 3 steps.

jalek moye
Originally posted by Astner
Technically you have to take the conditions under consideration. Kain was weakened, the jump started from a stationary state and the ability Jump wasn't fully developed. His agility should be in the transonic range.


Spider-man never dodges lasers, and normally not even bullets. He evades it. He accomplishes this due to his spider-sense.


Right. Captain America has dodged lasers, after seeing them. Guess he must be faster than light, huh?

Go by the hand books, they contain the official statistics and values and work as the "rules". Just because you moved your pawn 3 steps in a game of chess doesn't mean that pawns actually can move 3 steps.

Feats > handbooks here, and handbooks are inaccurate alot of times. Spider-man consitently actually dodges bullets laser m not sure about seeing as normally those aren't around him though. Spider-man dodges shit loads of bullets way more often then he has trouble with them so he can easily.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by Astner
Spider-man never dodges lasers, and normally not even bullets. He evades it. He accomplishes this due to his spider-sense.

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7805/agilityavoidingabullet.th.jpg

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/6044/speedasmv1637.th.jpg

Astner
I concede.

quanchi112
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You just denied Spiderman is faster, nothing you say matters anymore. Obviously you're in the wrong thread.

Spiderman can avoid the things Kain throws at him with the same ease I use to avoid a sleeping cat. The fastest anyone's suggested kain could move is 40% of the speed of sound, and ye know wut? Spidey has feats of dodgine hails of bullets and lasers and shit. no expression

No, the ability proves he can make himself faster, and math shows that even with it on he's no speedster.

Fast anf "faster" are not the same. Kain being "faster" than his base self really isn't impressive since he has no speed feats, and isn't "fast" to begin with. I just said even if that is the case Kain has enough powers and is quick enough for it not to be a huge advantage. He also has the ability to forcechoke him and blast him out of the near vicinity when he gets close by.

Spiderman has also been hit by much slower attacks so quit basing this off of a few feats like he a laser is too slow for him at all times. This isn't how Spiderman is portrayed not like you would know or anything.


The math shut up about the math you nerd your calculations much like you are a joke.


You didn't play the game nor am I convinced at this point you know who Kain is. Take your ignorance out of here.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Raziel could put a fist through Kain's chest, and Spiderman is similar strengthwise. I quoted you the scans Parmaniac already gave, do you have any evidence that says Kain could take a punch like that?



Inconvenience = distraction. That's all it needs to do.



Train cars can weigh between 50 and 80 tons, which puts Spiderman quite on par with Kain, despite Kain's only strength claim being ABC logic that isn't very convincing. Kain's only strength feats are from Blood Omen 2 gameplay, which he uses telekinesis to help with. The only argument I've seen (in other threads) for Kain's strength is that he overpowered Raziel, who can push two blocks that were mathed at 55 tons each. The evidence used to say Kain overpowered him?

Jws63E9dNN8

I don't really see it. Kain never pits his brute strength against Raziel once. Unless there are other feats I'm unaware of, Kain is stronger than a normal human (enough to tear out hearts and throw people) but he's never displayed a feat of strength rivaling Spiderman.

As for speed, Scream and Aster are currently covering this with maths, but I'll add that I've never seen anything truly above human from Kain speedwise. He might be faster than a human, but there's no way for me to tell how much. Whereas Spidermas is made of speed/reaction feats.

Durability I'll grant Kain, seeing as he did take some hits from Raziel. Of course, a weakened Raziel also ripped out Kain's heart. However, Spiderman in the scan has taken a propane tank explosion point blank without visible damage. The Iron-Spider suit is effectively bulletproof, too, and is explicitly heat resistent.

Spiderman still takes majority in my opinion. Kain can also rip out Spiderman's heart it's about contesting this not trying to talk reason with Raziel and letting your guard down when he reaches in and does do. Kain also survived it, sport.

Kain turns into mist. Boom. Laughs.

Kain isn't trying to kill Raziel he calmly tosses him aside but never once is out to murder him. The only time Raziel gets the better of him is when Kain lets his guard down due to Raziel being absorbed into the sword.


Why is Raziel weakened there? Where do you come up with this tuff mr. guy who has never played a blood omen game.

Kain kills Spiderman, 10/10.

ScreamPaste
The rest of your post is your usual Kain wank, it's all been dealt with before but this:

I will respond to, because it's a lie.

I posted:


You responded:


See where you say "no he isn't"?
I've also proven why Kain cannot do the things you're claiming. Spiderman is too fast, and he can escape. :]

Thank you for wasting my time, it's been fun. wink

quanchi112
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The rest of your post is your usual Kain wank, it's all been dealt with before but this:

I will respond to, because it's a lie.

I posted:


You responded:


See where you say "no he isn't"?
I've also proven why Kain cannot do the things you're claiming. Spiderman is too fast, and he can escape. :]

Thank you for wasting my time, it's been fun. wink If he gets close, mist or a tk blast. He can't harm him in mist form. Are you going to ask for a video showing him in mist form now?


When did you prove that these are his abilities Kain can go to mist form any time he wants while Spiderman just has to sit there and make wisecracks until he materializes again. Guess what force choke he's dead.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by quanchi112
If he gets close, mist or a tk blast. He can't harm him in mist form. Are you going to ask for a video showing him in mist form now?


When did you prove that these are his abilities Kain can go to mist form any time he wants while Spiderman just has to sit there and make wisecracks until he materializes again. Guess what force choke he's dead.
IF Spidey gets close he'll polant his fist between Kain's eyes before Kain can react, because, I say it again, Kain has no reaction or speed feats.

Kain can temporarily turn into mist, and cannot do anythign else while in this form, he's harmless, and he can't stay that way forever, he also doesn, and a punch from Spidey will definitely throw him off balance, making for an easy follow up.

Force choke? lol. Right.

<< THERE IS MORE FROM THIS THREAD HERE >>