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Ozymandias makes his way to the Matrix. The rules and laws do not apply to him, however. He retains all of his superhuman abilities he displayed in Watchmen. The Matrix combatants have all of their abilities and are each in their standard clothing. No weapons. Ozymandias is in his standard clothing(not his armor), gets fully healed and rested after each fight. How far does he get?

Guantlet
1.Trinity
2.Morpheus
3.Seraph
4.Neo
5.Agent Smith

Things to Consider
*Trinity and Morpheus greatly improved between the first two films.
*Neo probably wasn't going all out against Seraph in The Matrix Reloaded, but Seraph did say in the third film that he had beaten Smith before(to which Smith agreed).
*Neo and Smith are only as powerful as they were in the original film before getting the upgrades.
*I think it's safe to say that everyone here is fairly more skilled in martial arts than the Comedian.

You should really give Ozy his armor here.

Seraph rapes.

It looked like he fought slower in the armor than out of it. I'm sure that has more to do with the actual actor's but still......

How does Seraph rape? Ozymandias is arguably faster than everyone here.

Neo included?

He caught a bullet at point-blank range.

Neo was overwhelmed by Agent Jones' gunfire from atleast 30 feet away.

Veidt, possible homosexual, must remember to investigate further.

Stops at 4. Seraph would give him trouble but he'd win due to physical stats. Though, I'm not sure about this 'cause it's theorized that Seraph is a past "One".

WHY IN THE ALBINO TWIN PHUCK, IS AGENT SMITH AFTER NEO?

EDIT: nvrm, i read that last bit of the OP.

not sure, yet.. i'll contemplate this further

Originally posted by marwash22
WHY IN THE ALBINO TWIN PHUCK, IS AGENT SMITH AFTER NEO? Because Smith handed Neo his ass.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Because Smith handed Neo his ass. you're too quick sneer

i didn't read properly the first time and thought his was Neo and Smith at Reloaded or Revolutions.

Ah yes. Good ol' Matrix character debates. Always fun.

They all have an inherent advantage over Ozymandias in that they are all programmed to mastery level of every martial arts. While Ozymandias might (and might not) have a speed and strength advantage over the human characters, the programmes are vastly more powerful. Seraph held off M2 Neo in the fight and he is miles ahead of the human characters. Seraph and Smith would both wipe the floor with Ozymandias. The others, from a higher skill level, would put up an extremely good fight as well. You only need to look at M1 Neo's fight against Smith in the subway to see the strength of the human characters...While in the headlock he manages to jump high enough and with enough force to smash Smith through the concrete ceiling of the subway tunnel.

Why is it that Matrix characters apparently know ever martial art, but only use Wu Shu?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Why is it that Matrix characters apparently know ever martial art, but only use Wu Shu?

Fight choreographer preferred that style, most likely.

Still, Tank said he was loading Neo with multiple programs and he had been going at it all day. In the Morpheous/Neo dojo fight scene, they do mix it up a bit using different styles, though Lawrence being fat and old looked especially ackward.

Why would we assume they are more skilled than someone based on Tank saying he was uploading so and so many styles?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Why would we assume they are more skilled than someone based on Tank saying he was uploading so and so many styles?

Because we have multiple instances proving that an operator need only upload a program into someone in the Matrix and they're instantly skilled in it. eg Trinity says something like "I need to fly a Hewie helicopter", a few seconds later, she knows how.

Do you think the upload would just be the bare minimum, ie he trained Neo in the equivalent of a white-belt in Karate, considering they're at war with the Matrix. Also pretty sure it's said somewhere that the programs provide either expertise or decades of experience instantly to the uploaded person. Can't recall for sure though.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Why is it that Matrix characters apparently know ever martial art, but only use Wu Shu?

Because Woo Ping's primary martial art was Kung-fu and because it looks best on screen compared to less elaborate and thus less audience friendly styles.

Has no bearing on the character's programmed abilities.

Originally posted by jaden101
They all have an inherent advantage over Ozymandias in that they are all programmed to mastery level of every martial arts. More like a dozen or more fighting forms. Every was never stated.Originally posted by jaden101
While Ozymandias might (and might not) have a speed and strength advantage over the human characters, the programmes are vastly more powerful. I wouldn't say that. Originally posted by jaden101
Seraph held off M2 Neo in the fight and he is miles ahead of the human characters. Seraph and Smith would both wipe the floor with Ozymandias. Neo could have been holding back and likely was as we saw what he could truly do in Revolutions. No one is wiping the floor with anyone.Originally posted by jaden101 Seraph and Smith would both wipe the floor with Ozymandias. No one is wiping the floor with anyone. Veidt hits people with comparable power to the Agents. Originally posted by jaden101
The others, from a higher skill level, would put up an extremely good fight as well. Just because they know more styles(we're assuming) doesn't mean they're more skilled. Veidt tooled everyone he fought in H2H combat even when he was outnumbered.Originally posted by jaden101
You only need to look at M1 Neo's fight against Smith in the subway to see the strength of the human characters.... ......and your homework assignment is to look at Watchmen.

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Fair enough?Originally posted by jaden101
While in the headlock he manages to jump high enough and with enough force to smash Smith through the concrete ceiling of the subway tunnel. Guess what, Veidt has hops too. Look specifically at .16/.33 seconds in. It may not be as high as Neo or Morpheus' jumps but who's saying he was putting in supreme effort like they were?

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He was programmed with Jiu-Jitsu in a matter of seconds and his training went on for "10 hours straight" according to Tank...Equates to considerably more than a dozen.



I would...Never saw Ozymandias punching through a reinforced concrete support column like Smith did.




Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Neo was more powerful in Revolutions than he was in Reloaded...Shown by the fact that at the end of Reloaded he was able to manipulate machines in the real world...A further evolution of his ability.



No...He doesn't. He's certainly powerful in human standards but Agents were designed to be far in advance of what even Morpheus, Trinity etc were able to produce and they had the advantage of knowing that the laws in the Matrix governing strength and speed could be bent or broken.



They clearly show vastly more skill than Veidt does...He fought 3 people...A drunk and middle aged Comedian did better against him than Rorschach and Nite-Owl (who by the time they fight is retired and out of shape). So they were hardly opponents on the level of Neo, Smith and Seraph...

As a human it would take years for Ozymandias to master new martial arts...It takes a Matrix character seconds...They clearly have a vast advantage in skill and mastery.




Don't patronise me...I wouldn't have commented if I hadn't seen Watchmen. I have seen it several times. Facts are, though, that the Matrix characters would school Ozymandias to a ridiculous extent.

They're both gay.

Well homosexuality is one area where your opinion is certainly worth listening to...No doubt.

Calm down, baldie. At least I dont wear a skirt.

Who's bald?

Dresses are more your thing, aren't they?

Nah.


So, that Neo's pretty fast, yeah?

Do you want to suck his penis as well?

Nah. Wouldn't mind borrowing Trinity for a coupla hours though.

you two should stop it and just make out; the sexual tension is palpable.

Niobe > Trinity .

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Nah. Wouldn't mind borrowing Trinity for a coupla hours though.

Feel free. Plenty extra holes too.



marwash22 sandwich?

Naaaaaaahhh!!!

Besides...I'm about 20 years too old for RJ's taste.

Think so?

Originally posted by jaden101
I'm about 20 years too old for RJ's taste. ohhhh snap!

Originally posted by jaden101
Think so? perhaps, not in the movies. But...

Jada > Carrie

Originally posted by jaden101
Feel free. Plenty extra holes too. haermm





Slow day? I gotcha.

Originally posted by jaden101
I'm about 20 years too old for RJ's taste.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Slow day? I gotcha. ^ didn't deny it

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi


Slow day? I gotcha.

Slow week!

Originally posted by jaden101
Slow week! Well I appreciate you always making time for me, shugah heartbeat

Always.

Originally posted by marwash22
Niobe > Trinity . Incorrect.Originally posted by marwash22
Jada > Carrie Correct.Originally posted by jaden101
He was programmed with Jiu-Jitsu in a matter of seconds and his training went on for "10 hours straight" according to Tank...Equates to considerably more than a dozen. Okay, I'll accept that. But that still doesn't equate to making any of these guys more skilled. Neo and Morpheus might be, but surely not Trinity or Smith. Seraph is hard to judge because he has one fight.Originally posted by jaden101
I would...Never saw Ozymandias punching through a reinforced concrete support column like Smith did. ......and Veidt slammed Blake's head through a marble table and kicked Rorschach several yards away like a football.Originally posted by jaden101
Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Neo was more powerful in Revolutions than he was in Reloaded...Shown by the fact that at the end of Reloaded he was able to manipulate machines in the real world...A further evolution of his ability. Okay, not five minutes later he was shown kicking the hell out of atleast a hundred clones of Smith. Do you think Seraph could survive against all of them? I'll answer that for you; no. Infact, we know this because he was assimilated by Smith in Revolutions. Bottom line: Neo held back.Originally posted by jaden101
No...He doesn't. He's certainly powerful in human standards but Agents were designed to be far in advance of what even Morpheus, Trinity etc were able to produce and they had the advantage of knowing that the laws in the Matrix governing strength and speed could be bent or broken. In human standards? He's clearly superhuman in a number of statistical areas. He's hit people harder than what we've seen from the likes of Morpheus and Trinity. We've never seen an Agent kick a rebel like they were a football. Thrown? Yes, but not kicked. Originally posted by jaden101
They clearly show vastly more skill than Veidt does...He fought 3 people...A drunk and middle aged Comedian did better against him than Rorschach and Nite-Owl (who by the time they fight is retired and out of shape). So they were hardly opponents on the level of Neo, Smith and Seraph... Drunk? Blake was drinking coffee, not alchohol. So Morpheus isn't middle aged? Come on now..... Nite Owl retired and out of shape? Did you see the alley or prison fight scenes? Of course they aren't on the level of Smith, Seraph, or Neo. Morpheus and Trinity aren't either. We see the Matrix characters kick ass. We also see Ozymandias kick ass to the point that he literally has no competition.Originally posted by jaden101
As a human it would take years for Ozymandias to master new martial arts...It takes a Matrix character seconds...They clearly have a vast advantage in skill and mastery. They may have a vast majority in knowledge or a variety of different styles. That doesn't mean they are more skilled.

Bruce Wayne knows far more styles than Shang Chi or Steve Rogers. I guess that means he'd kick their asses in a fight, huh.Originally posted by jaden101
Don't patronise me...I wouldn't have commented if I hadn't seen Watchmen. I have seen it several times. Facts are, though, that the Matrix characters would school Ozymandias to a ridiculous extent. They'd school him? Veidt is smarter, faster and stronger than Morpheus and Trinity for sure. The only thing up in the air is Morpheus' jump. Hardly relevant in H2H combat, however.

Always and forever heartbeat

Many of the Matrix characters are much faster than Ozy.

Only speed feat Ozy has was catching the bullet. And in that feat he had focused all his attention on catching that one bullet, he could also see when the trigger was going to be pulled. He more than likely preemptively went to catch the bullet before it was fired since his arm does not move at superspeed to catch it, which would be necessary if he indeed catches it after its fired.

Neo dodges many bullets in the first film. Put Ozy in the same situation and he'd full of lead.

Neo displays super-speed strikes in the dojo scene.

Smith also does his super-speed punches on Neo in the subway fight.

Also, just looking at their typical fight scenes, Matrix characters fight faster.

Matrix characters also have much higher durability. Morpheus recovers very quickly from Agent Johnson's punches. Johnson has shown he is strong enough to punch open steel doors,rip the top of a car off with ease and destroy a car by jumping on it.

Hell yeah, Neo displayed speed Ozy can only dream of when he dodged the bullets on the rooftop at the end.

Morpheus kicked Neo with enough force to propel him across the dojo and through a 2 feet thick wooden pillar.





We've seen an agent jump onto the front of a moving car with enough force to completely crush it and flip it over.

As for Morpheus...See above.

Your move.



Yes...That's the entire time the movie is set in.

From the wiki page about the actor portraying the character.





Smarter?...I have no doubt. Faster and stronger?...No.

Trinity put up a good showing against the same agent who totalled the car I mentioned above...As did Morpheus on the roof of the truck. (He was able to jump off the front of Niobe's car and up to the roof of the truck and kick the agent with enough force to send him flying off the back of the truck and smash through another car's windscreen.



They're effectively instantly trained with all the knowledge available about each martial art...It's instant mastery...Of course they have more skill. Not to mention that each of them exhibit far more fighting prowess than Ozymandias does.



We also know that Smith is vastly more powerful in revolutions than he is in reloaded...Much as Neo is...How do we know this? We know he effectively assimilates all the powers and knowledge of everyone he clones himself over...As seen by him taking the Oracle's sight.

What we do know is that Smith and other agents exhibit far more strength than Ozymandias has (from the examples I've given above). We also know by the speed of his rapid punches against Neo in the subway fight that he has far greater combat speed than Ozymandias. We also know that Seraph has beaten Smith before.

Safe to say that Seraph would beat Ozymandias.

Veidt caught a bullet fired at point blank range. He reacted after the gun was fired. Neo dodged those bullets at a distance that looked to be 30 feet. Only speed feat you say? What about the assassin scene? Veidt probably could have punched through that steel door too considering his striking feats.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
He's hit people harder than what we've seen from the likes of Morpheus and Trinity. We've never seen an Agent kick a rebel like they were a football. Thrown? Yes, but not kicked.

ORly?

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1:23 Smashes concrete like nothing.

1:43 Punches Neo and sends him flying into the conrete wall, smashing it.

2:15 Punches Neo and sends him flying.

FZd11gQRZ9s

- Smith Punches Morpheus while lying down, sends him flying and smashing a brick wall.

- Kicks Morpheus while he is down, sends him into the brick wall.

I'm aware of all of that. I said kick, and none of those kicks equate to what Veidt did to Rorschach.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
I'm aware of all of that. I said kick, and none of those kicks equate to what Veidt did to Rorschach.

Yes there is a kick in there if you even watched it.

You originally said only "throws" were shown.

Didn't see one.

So Smith can clearly punch far harder than Ozymandias can kick and now you're reduced to arguing that they were punches and not kicks. Is this where you say "kicking feats only" now?

if someone can punch a whole in concrete, one could feasibly assert that the same person can kick a whole in the same concrete...

Kicking power > Punching power

/fact.

Originally posted by jaden101
So Smith can clearly punch far harder than Ozymandias can kick and now you're reduced to arguing that they were punches and not kicks. Is this where you say "kicking feats only" now? I was just saying. Far harder? No.

There is a kick. Denying it doesn't make it disappear.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
I was just saying. Far harder? No.

Your only strength feat is that he kicks Rorschach about 10 feet...Then there's the other one when he throws a sturdy, heavy looking chair at Nite Owl.

Do either of those equate to punching through a reinforced concrete column? Or kicking a man an equal distance but with enough force to smash a wooden column in half?....Or any of the other feats shown by the Matrix characters we've shown in the thread?

I get the feeling you're just being stubborn and not wanting to admit you're wrong in this case.

Also, what Durability feats does Ozy has? All he has done is give a beating to largely inferior combatants.

What durability feats does he have that shows he can trade blows with someone like Smith and not get KTFO?

I was thinking he might have a chance against Trinity but then I thought about her 1st encounter with the cops in M1...When she kicks one cop with enough force to send him flying into another cop and them both flying into the wall at the other side of the room. Then she runs around the corner of the wall dodging 10 shots from about 8 feet away.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
I'm aware of all of that. I said kick, and none of those kicks equate to what Veidt did to Rorschach.

Morpheus' kick to Neo in the dojo was far harder than Ozy's kick to Rorschach...or are you just referring to the videos that Placidity posted?

Anyways, IMO Veidt will have a very hard time getting past 1, let alone challenging all the later combatants in the gauntlet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZd11gQRZ9s&feature=player_embedded

0:33 = Kick

I had to go back to this point because I completely forgot about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9Nh0Fvoe9k

I covered "the jump" already. It's not applicable to H2H combat. Originally posted by jaden101
Your only strength feat is that he kicks Rorschach about 10 feet...Then there's the other one when he throws a sturdy, heavy looking chair at Nite Owl.

Would have been further if that wall wasn't in the way where Rorschach collided with it. Also, notice how Rorschach's face is altered when kicked. That along with slamming Blake's head through marble and throwing Blake around with ease like he were a ragdoll. Something no one here other than Smith can attest to.

I said he was stronger than Morpheus and Trinity, not Smith. Originally posted by Placidity
0:33 = Kick Your comparing that to Veidt's?
Originally posted by DarkNemesis
Morpheus' kick to Neo in the dojo was far harder than Ozy's kick to Rorschach. Reasoning?

And Morpheus would've kicked Neo further if it wasn't for the wooden column....Trinity would've kicked the 2 cops further if it wasn't for the wall...In both cases the opponents were kicked as far or further, were lifted higher off the ground and hit the wall/post with greater force than Rorschach did from Ozy's kick.



His mask alters when nothing is getting done it...Odd argument.



As above.



Morpheus does it with minimal effort...He even smirks after it. Your argument was that it took huge amounts of effort....Clearly not the case.

I notice you've skipped over an awful lot of arguments against your case...Namely the agent smashing the car to pieces...Trinity's kick against the 2 police officers...Morpheus kicking the agent off the truck...

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Reasoning?

Neo flew much farther than Rorschach, by far.

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Look at 0:43, Morpheus was standing approximately where Neo is standing right now when he kicked Neo and sent him flying right into the (our) left-most pillar and severely snapped it in the process. That HAS to be at least 40 feet.

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If you pause at 1:07, Veidt's kick on Rorschach was 20 feet at the very most (observing the distance between the screens and where Rorschach is lying).

You acknowledged that Rorschach would've flown further had it not been for the angled kick into the wall. Fair enough, but Neo would have also flown much further had it not been for the wooden pillar, considering how badly damaged said pillar was.

Okay, consider then the ricochet effect that Rorschach's body underwent after coming into contact with the wall compared to Neo's hitting the pillar.

I never said "the jump" required a huge amount of effort. The kicking the Agent off the truck had already been covered by someone else. Morpheus got a running start of what looked like 20 feet. The Agent also being unaware helped.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Okay, consider then the ricochet effect that Rorschach's body underwent after coming into contact with the wall compared to Neo's hitting the pillar.

I never said "the jump" required a huge amount of effort. The kicking the Agent off the truck had already been covered by someone else. Morpheus got a running start of what looked like 20 feet. The Agent also being unaware helped.

Why are you even still trying to argue that Ozymandias' kick was more powerful?...It couldn't be more clear that it isn't.

How do you get a running start of 20ft jumping off the front of a car?

Momentum negates the movement of the car and the truck as they were going at the same speed and it also reduces the effect of Morpheus jumping backward in relation to the truck and car as momentum would have him actually still moving forward in relation to the ground.

In relation to Morpheus' kick compared with Ozymandias...Who travels further...Neo or Rorschach?...Neo...Who is lifted further off the ground?...Neo...Who impacts with more force?....Neo.

In relation to Trinity's kick...It made the cop she kicks travel further than Rorschach....he then hits the 2nd cop with enough force to lift him off the ground and send both of them flying into the wall which then has a huge hole in it from where they impacted.

Yet here's you arguing that Rorschach flying 8 feet and hitting a stone pillar and then bouncing off it another few feet is more powerful.

He does have another couple of good kicks in that fight but none of them match the power of either Morpheus' kick against Neo, Trinity's kick against the cops, Morpheus' kick against the agent or any of Smith's big punches against Neo. Or, for that matter, any of the agent's big punches against Morpheus on the roof of the truck.

I also don't see the kick off the truck being addressed by anyone.

Did he not fly 15-20 feet?

Regardless, Trinity was easily taken out by the Twin in Reloaded.

Besides Veidt refusing defend himself against Dan's punches, no, he has no durability feats. He was never hit by anyone. Comedian suprised him and pushed him into a wall but failed to lany any blows.

The final punch from the Agent on Morpheus was more powerful than anything Veidt has shown, granted, but that was an upgraded Agent(broke the steel door, not Smith). If Veidt wanted, he could have sent Morpheus off the truck too.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Okay, consider then the ricochet effect that Rorschach's body underwent after coming into contact with the wall compared to Neo's hitting the pillar.

Ricochet effect? Veidt kicked him, Rorschach sorta spun around, glanced ever so slightly off the wall, and fell onto the ground. He barely made contact with it anyway. I don't really see your argument regarding the wall. It's not like Veidt kicked him 20 feet straight into the wall, Rorschach bounced off, and he flew another 20 feet again. The total distance traveled was 20 feet at most, and it really doesn't compare with what Morpheus did to Neo.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Your comparing that to Veidt's?


So first you say there are only throws.

I showed you punches and kicks.

Then you said there are still no kicks.

I point out again where the kick happens.

So I have corrected your original statements three times already, but never mind that right?

And how would you know if its comparable or not? Morpheus was immediately stopped by the wall, you couldn't tell how far he would've been booted.

The same agent that Smith then assimilated with no effort whatsoever.



Taken out as in managed to get blade to her throat. Also...The twins...Who were actually highly skilled fighters themselves.

Fail to see your point.



Do you actually read this shit back to yourself before you post and think that it's a valid argument.

You've used the "Veidt could've punched through the steel door" argument...Despite no evidence that he has nearly enough strength to do what took an agent several punches.

I mean...Really?...Just...REALLY?

If Smith wanted, he could kill Ozy effortlessly.

What about Blade? How does he fare with this guantlet?

Originally posted by Darth Martin
What about Blade? How does he fare with this guantlet?

I did a Blade vs Morpheus thread a while back that worked out about even.

Although this included both Bladed weapons and guns.

Blade without weapons.

Vedit's faster and more skilled than Blade, but Blade's more durable and stronger.

Best open another thread to continue this one though.

I guess it also depends on how strong the vampires that Blade fights are...Everything would be relative to that and how much stronger they are compared to humans.

If you give it the matrix comparison then supposedly old programmes due for deletion are responsible for the stories of ghosts and vampires...As told by the Oracle...So does that mean that we can say that a vampire is equal to that of a programme about to be deleted...Are these programmes equal to that of Agents?

All relative really.

Not sure if he's more skilled, but he definitely has better reflexes. I'd put Blade at around Morpheus level.

Blade was being worked by Nomak who seemed to be roughly the same speed. No one touched Veidt.

No one Veidt fought even compared to Nomak. In fact, Veidt himself would be brutalized by Nomak, the guy was tanking gunfire, throwing Blade 50+ feet away, and kneeing through marble ground as if it were styrofoam.

True.