"In the zone" Anakin vs. Darth Vader (OT)

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Mr. Anderson014
If a mentally disciplined Anakin Skywalker fully embracing the darkside were to meet his future self in battle, who takes it?

Pwned
In teh zone Anakin wins.

He obliterated Dooku, something I dont think Vader as of the OT could have done, because he was ruled by his emotions, etc.

In teh zone, Anakin could draw on the dark side and not be entirely corrupted, he was able to go to the Jedi again and not be shrouded in darkness.

Mr. Anderson014
Originally posted by Pwned
In teh zone Anakin wins.

He obliterated Dooku, something I dont think Vader as of the OT could have done, because he was ruled by his emotions, etc.

In teh zone, Anakin could draw on the dark side and not be entirely corrupted, he was able to go to the Jedi again and not be shrouded in darkness.

See, thats where i see things differently. I DO think vader couldve beaten dooku as of OT. He's only gotten better since ROTS. Maybe not with sabers, but with sheer experience and VASTLY more powerful in the force. So i think he might b able to edge it out against dooku.

And i'd also have to disagree with u with OT vader being ruled by his emotions. He's not a punk 22 year old kid anymore. He's had 20 + years to grow into a seasoned lord of the sith who doesn't let his emotions get the best of him in the same ways that Anakin did.

In your opinion, who do u think in teh zone anakin is comparable to in terms of power?

As of right now, I dont have a formed opinion on this bout.

Pwned
Then for a single mistake why would he execute a subordinate?

Also, he is more than likely still pissed about Padme dying.....

Idk who he is comaprable to in teh zone i just know this: He tooled a 70+ year old Jedi Master turned Sith Lord, who was one of the best duelists of his time, third only to Mace and Yoda.

In the force, yes, OT Vader is FAR more powerful. In sabers, a bit but only because he customized his style to be used in his suit, giving him unpredictability.

Hes in his 40s, sure, but Palpatine is the one in control, because he controls all his emotions, he could do whatever the f*ck the wanted.
Vader was also kind of insane, imho. He would try 1 tactic til it worked, no matter the cost.

Mr. Anderson014
Originally posted by Pwned
Then for a single mistake why would he execute a subordinate?

Also, he is more than likely still pissed about Padme dying.....

Idk who he is comaprable to in teh zone i just know this: He tooled a 70+ year old Jedi Master turned Sith Lord, who was one of the best duelists of his time, third only to Mace and Yoda.

In the force, yes, OT Vader is FAR more powerful. In sabers, a bit but only because he customized his style to be used in his suit, giving him unpredictability.

Hes in his 40s, sure, but Palpatine is the one in control, because he controls all his emotions, he could do whatever the f*ck the wanted.
Vader was also kind of insane, imho. He would try 1 tactic til it worked, no matter the cost.

So how can "zone" anakin win if you just said OT vader is FAR more powerful in the force and slightly better with sabers? Seems contradictory. Who are you siding with?

Lord Lucien
In a Force contest: Vader. Anakin may be of utter clarity-of-mind, but that doesn't mean his knowledge of, or power in the Force increased. At least not enough to combat Vader.

Sabers, though: Anakin, for sure.

DrunknClockwork
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
In a Force contest: Vader. Anakin may be of utter clarity-of-mind, but that doesn't mean his knowledge of, or power in the Force increased. At least not enough to combat Vader.

Sabers, though: Anakin, for sure.
I was watching the ESB commentary the other day and Lucas said the following about Vader:

"...now he's half machine and half man, so he has lost a lot of the power of the force and he has lost a lot of visibility to be more powerful than the emperor..."

So yeah, while I agree his knowledge and control increased he apparently doesn't possess the sheer power of his former self anymore.

Therefore I just don't see Vader beating "in teh zone" Anakin in anything.

Mr. Anderson014
While GL did say that, in many novels he has shown far greater feats in the force then Anakin ever did. This leads me to believe Vader merely lost his potential in the force, and not loose what he's already had. Again, i see contradiction between EU and GL's word... confused

I do believe that Vader could beat Anakin the way he usually is. As powerful as skywalker maybe, he lacks the experience and mental discipline that the older jedi master's have (kenobi, windu, yoda).

However in his "in teh zone" form, this weakness is no longer a factor in whomever he faces....which still leads me to no conclusive winner.

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by Mr. Anderson014
While GL did say that, in many novels he has shown far greater feats in the force then Anakin ever did. This leads me to believe Vader merely lost his potential in the force, and not loose what he's already had. Again, i see contradiction between EU and GL's word... confused

I do believe that Vader could beat Anakin the way he usually is. As powerful as skywalker maybe, he lacks the experience and mental discipline that the older jedi master's have (kenobi, windu, yoda).

However in his "in teh zone" form, this weakness is no longer a factor in whomever he faces....which still leads me to no conclusive winner.

"in teh zone!!!!!" Anakin pwned Dooku in a matter of seconds, putting this version of Anakin arguably above Yoda in terms of lightsaber combat. Vader got pwned by an enraged ROTJ Luke and almost lost to a cloned Maul.

Mr. Anderson014
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
"in teh zone!!!!!" Anakin pwned Dooku in a matter of seconds, putting this version of Anakin arguably above Yoda in terms of lightsaber combat. Vader got pwned by an enraged ROTJ Luke and almost lost to a cloned Maul.

VERY arguably... first time he fought dooku on geonosis, dooku made a distraction as a last ditch effort when IMO yoda was REALLY gonna start fighting. And the 2nd time on Vjun, when dooku was even empowered by the planets darkside engery, he still admits that yoda overpowered him.

After reading DR, its very clear that Yoda wants dooku to turn back SO badly. He obviously loves him, and it would break his heart to strike him down. So i think he was holding back both times when fighting dooku and could've easily beat him the way "in teh zone" anakin did if he wanted to.

And vader lost to luke in ROTJ because he really didn't even want to fight Luke in the first place, hence his "inner conflict". I believe Luke even states that vader could've beat him if he wanted to in a certain novel, but i personally haven't read it. Can anyone help me with the exact quote? And is vader's encounter with maul considered cannon? Not saying ur wrong, i've just heard mixed things about it.

Galan007
Originally posted by DrunknClockwork
I was watching the ESB commentary the other day and Lucas said the following about Vader:

"...now he's half machine and half man, so he has lost a lot of the power of the force and he has lost a lot of visibility to be more powerful than the emperor..."

So yeah, while I agree his knowledge and control increased he apparently doesn't possess the sheer power of his former self anymore.

Therefore I just don't see Vader beating "in teh zone" Anakin in anything. Vader's potential may have lessened, but his overall knowledge of, and skill with, the force was still far beyond what it was during RotS. Remember, unrealized potential is all but meaningless. Realized potential is where it's at.

Mr. Anderson014
So the main consensus is that he's a MUCH more powerful in the force, but in sabers? not so much...

So who do u think takes this match up? I think im starting to lean towards Vader.

Galan007
Originally posted by Mr. Anderson014
So the main consensus is that he's a MUCH more powerful in the force, but in sabers? not so much... Purtty much, imo.

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson014
So who do u think takes this match up? I think im starting to lean towards Vader. Vader's external force powers may have been > zone Anakin's -- but Dooku's were as well, yet Anakin embarrassed him nonetheless.

So yeah...

Mr. Anderson014
Good point....

Mr. Anderson014
Originally posted by Mr. Anderson014
Good point....

Although, if you believe that Vader's force powers are superior to counts, do you think that it would make a difference then?

EDIT: oops, didnt mean to double post like that....n00b mistake

Galan007
Vader's TK might be better than Dooku's, but I'm skeptical to think it would make a difference versus zone Anakin.

DrunknClockwork
Originally posted by Galan007
Vader's potential may have lessened, but his overall knowledge of, and skill with, the force was still far beyond what it was during RotS.
That's like exactly what I wrote. no expression

But again, the quote say he lost a lot of force power (power, not potential) right there when he became half machine. This means that Vader's Force powers are FAR weaker than the ones Anakin had already displayed at some point before (in all likelihood during his ITZ state).

Remember, this is ITZ Anakin, the version that makes great use of his potential, so in this case his way superior potential will come in handy. Against all other incarnations of Anakin you would have a point, but not here.

When ROTJ Luke tapped into his potential there was nothing Vader could do to stop him. In the case of ITZ Anakin it would be either about the same or even a stomp on a grand scale.

Galan007
Originally posted by DrunknClockwork
That's like exactly what I wrote. no expression

But again, the quote say he lost a lot of force power (power, not potential) right there when he became half machine. This means that Vader's Force powers are FAR weaker than the ones Anakin had already displayed at some point before (in all likelihood during his ITZ state).

Remember, this is ITZ Anakin, the version that makes great use of his potential, so in this case his way superior potential will come in handy. Against all other incarnations of Anakin you would have a point, but not here. Unless you know of a specific instance where Anakin demonstrated force powers (the external type) superior to those displayed by Vader, then my previous statement still stands.

Originally posted by DrunknClockwork
When ROTJ Luke tapped into his potential there was nothing Vader could do to stop him. In the case of ITZ Anakin it would be either about the same or even a stomp on a grand scale. a.) Luke was swinging his lightsaber around like Stevie Wonder during batting practice. It was a pathetic display, really.

b.) Vader didn't want to harm his own child.

c.) Lucas more or less stated that Luke became what Anakin was intended to be. ie. they both had the same potential.

DrunknClockwork
Originally posted by Galan007
Unless you know of a specific instance where Anakin demonstrated force powers (the external type) superior to those displayed by Vader, then my previous statement still stands.
What statement? That he displayed more offensive powers with the force? I've never denied that, but it will mean nothing in view of Anakin's way superior force powers.


a.) Anakin didn't really show a fine technique either; it was a display of superior Force powers where Dooku (or in Luke case Vader) simply couldn't defend against the ferocious strikes anymore.

b.) It was yet again like the Anakin vs. Dooku battle: At first he held back, but then he fought for his life.

c.) Source please; "Luke became what Anakin was intended to be" seems a little vague to me. It could mean that he became the greatest Jedi ever or so; it's not necessarily a direct relation between Anakin's and Luke's battle prowess.
And even if it IS referring to his potential then Vader still gets stomped like against Luke, so I don't see your point here. no expression

Gideon
I suppose that's where my perfect vision of the saga and suspension of disbelief comes in. I really don't think that Skywalker wielded his lightsaber like a psychotic baseball player, that Obi-Wan and Vader were slow thugs swinging glowing sticks.

Galan007
Originally posted by DrunknClockwork
What statement? That he displayed more offensive powers with the force? I've never denied that, but it will mean nothing in view of Anakin's way superior force powers. Indeed. Anakin had a "thermonuclear furnace" of raw force power to draw from, of which he used to overwhelm Dooku in their duel. That isn't what I am arguing. All I'm saying is that Vader simply demonstrated far superior external force prowess (TK mainly.)

Additionally, I hope you noted my opinion that zone Anakin would own Vader, despite having inferior offensive force power... I'm not arguing for Vader by any means.


Originally posted by DrunknClockwork
a.) Anakin didn't really show a fine technique either; it was a display of superior Force powers where Dooku (or in Luke case Vader) simply couldn't defend against the ferocious strikes anymore.

b.) It was yet again like the Anakin vs. Dooku battle: At first he held back, but then he fought for his life.

c.) Source please; "Luke became what Anakin was intended to be" seems a little vague to me. It could mean that he became the greatest Jedi ever or so; it's not necessarily a direct relation between Anakin's and Luke's battle prowess.
And even if it IS referring to his potential then Vader still gets stomped like against Luke, so I don't see your point here. no expression a.) See above.
b.) See above.
c.) That quote isn't verbatim, it's just the gist of what I could remember. Anyhow, I believe it was stated in the audio commentary during one of the movies.

DrunknClockwork
Originally posted by Galan007
Indeed. Anakin had a "thermonuclear furnace" of raw force power to draw from, of which he used to overwhelm Dooku in their duel. That isn't what I am arguing. All I'm saying is that Vader simply demonstrated far superior external force prowess (TK mainly.)

Additionally, I hope you noted my opinion that zone Anakin would own Vader, despite having inferior offensive force power... I'm not arguing for Vader by any means.

It was your agreement to this,
Originally posted by Mr. Anderson014
So the main consensus is that he's a MUCH more powerful in the force, but in sabers? not so much...
which makes it seem that you agree that Vader would crush ITZ Anakin in a straight Force battle, that caught my attention.

Now that I think about it there really aren't superior showings of TK for Vader. His only shot to fame in the TK department was crushing a hut that was as hard as durasteel. Considering Anakin's very first action as Darth Vader, during the famous "NOOOO" scene, was to crush the whole scenery with TK (meaning that he would've been able to do so even as Anakin), I don't actually see any improvements here even 20 years later.

Galan007
Originally posted by DrunknClockwork
It was your agreement to this,

which makes it seem that you agree that Vader would crush ITZ Anakin in a straight Force battle, that caught my attention.

Now that I think about it there really aren't superior showings of TK for Vader. His only shot to fame in the TK department was crushing a hut that was as hard as durasteel. Considering Anakin's very first action as Darth Vader, during the famous "NOOOO" scene, was to crush the whole scenery with TK (meaning that he would've been able to do so even as Anakin), I don't actually see any improvements here even 20 years later. Yes, I agreed that Vader would win in a pure force battle, because Vader has demonstrated superior offensive force feats. Not sure how that is an illogical line of thought..?

As for Vader's (imo) best TK feat, crushing a material akin to durasteel isn't what I had in mind. Using his TK to begin force choking Xizor from across space (while holding back) is...

"Xizor turned toward the hologram of the dark-caped figure-an intimidatingly life-sized image, transmitted from the Devastator, Lord Vader's personal flagship. Standing against Vader-even in this insubstantial form-was like facing radiation hard enough to strip flesh from bone. Not for the first time Xizor felt an invisible hand settle around his throat. His own willpower kept the breath sliding in and out of his lungs. But if Vader were to unleash his complete wrath, the force of will might not be enough. Xizor had seen others, the highest-ranking officers in the Empire's forces, clutching their throats and gasping for air, writhing like a Dantooinian garfish caught on a barbed trawling line. Perhaps wisely, Vader tended to avoid such displays in front of the Emperor; why tempt the old man into showing how much greater was his own mastery of the Force that penetrated and bound the galaxy together?" - TBHW


At the time I believe Vader was near Coruscant and Xizor was on Tatooine. To give you bearing on the gargantuan distances we are talking about, here is a map of the Star Wars galaxy:

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/7271/starwarsinsidergalaxyma.th.jpg
(Coruscant and Tatooine are circled in red.)

Uber as hell.

SwordOfTheJedi
Galan, when you are comparing the two combatants, are you using In teh zone Anakin as in ROTS Anakin?

What would be your view on

"In teh zone Anakin + 20 years of more experience with his full body" vs. OT Vader?

Surely In teh zone + 20 years on a full body could crush OT cripple Vader? This is speculation at this point because a fully body Anakin +20 years could never happen, but what's your view in this case?

Lord Lucien
That's speculation. But given another 20 years, yeah. He'd only 13 years of training at that point. Add 20...

DrunknClockwork
Originally posted by Galan007
Yes, I agreed that Vader would win in a pure force battle, because Vader has demonstrated superior offensive force feats. Not sure how that is an illogical line of thought..?

As for Vader's (imo) best TK feat, crushing a material akin to durasteel isn't what I had in mind. Using his TK to begin force choking Xizor from across space (while holding back) is...

That's impressive, however I don't see how it will help him in a Force Battle against ITZ Anakin. He won't be able to choke or TK someone who's a lot more stronger in the Force than him and considering my earlier mentioned showing of Anakin (destroying the scenery with TK) and considering how Marek tossed Vader around like a rag doll in their fight, I simply don't see Vader winning here.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by DrunknClockwork
That's impressive, however I don't see how it will help him in a Force Battle against ITZ Anakin. He won't be able to choke or TK someone who's a lot more stronger in the Force than him and considering my earlier mentioned showing of Anakin (destroying the scenery with TK) and considering how Marek tossed Vader around like a rag doll in their fight, I simply don't see Vader winning here. The point isn't that he's really good at Force Choke. The point is that, despite tens of thousands of light-years distance between them, Vader's command of the Force is such that he can reach through that distance. It wasn't some spur of the moment burst of frustration that allowed for a boost in power, it was a controlled act, and he had the power to do it. Tens of thousands of light-years. Multiplied by 5.8 trillion miles. For every light-year. Limit that distance to a dozen feet.

DrunknClockwork
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
The point isn't that he's really good at Force Choke. The point is that, despite tens of thousands of light-years distance between them, Vader's command of the Force is such that he can reach through that distance. It wasn't some spur of the moment burst of frustration that allowed for a boost in power, it was a controlled act, and he had the power to do it. Tens of thousands of light-years. Multiplied by 5.8 trillion miles. For every light-year. Limit that distance to a dozen feet.
And my point is that his superior control would mean nothing in view of ITZ Anakin's sheer power. Dooku for example has displayed an immense control of TK when he brought down Ventress to her knees with needle-like precision, however he wouldn't be able to do something like that to someone who's stronger than him in the Force like Yoda, Sidious or Marek.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by DrunknClockwork
And my point is that his superior control would mean nothing in view of ITZ Anakin's sheer power. Dooku for example has displayed an immense control of TK when he brought down Ventress to her knees with needle-like precision, however he wouldn't be able to do something like that to someone who's stronger than him in the Force like Yoda, Sidious or Marek. And as neither Dooku nor Anakin threw so much as Force-induced flick at each other, you base this on what?

DrunknClockwork
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
And as neither Dooku nor Anakin threw so much as Force-induced flick at each other, you base this on what?
On the second part of my quote.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by DrunknClockwork
On the second part of my quote. Kay, and just how are you comparing Zone Anakin and OT Vader? Lord Zed only appears for all of... 15 seconds when he brought down Dooku. But he didn't display a single Force attack. Clarity of mind =/= "unlimited POWAH".

Granted, in such a lucid state, his natural Force reserves are gonna give him an edge against anyone, but who's to say his mastery of telekinesis is as as controlled as when he's Vader? Sabers, yes. He's got Vader whooped.

DrunknClockwork
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Kay, and just how are you comparing Zone Anakin and OT Vader? Lord Zed only appears for all of... 15 seconds when he brought down Dooku. But he didn't display a single Force attack. Clarity of mind =/= "unlimited POWAH".

Granted, in such a lucid state, his natural Force reserves are gonna give him an edge against anyone, but who's to say his mastery of telekinesis is as as controlled as when he's Vader? Sabers, yes. He's got Vader whooped.
Again I'm basing his TK-skill on the "NOOO"-scene. It's probbably not as refined as Vader's but when it'll come to a duel of TKs it boils down to a trial of strength between the combatants and not the technique (kinda like when Vader couldn't defend against Marek tossing him around).

Lord Lucien
The Nooooo was fueled by Darkness. Lord Zed was some kind of... hybrid? Paradox? Iunno.

In terms of Force-outage, Anakin's Zone self can't be measured--we're given nothing about his potential "increases" in skill/power. I'm reading through the passages now, and it reads like you would about Vaapad: a state of mind. One better suited to utilizing what's already available to him. But it mentions nothing about a greater display of Force-power or increased power behind a Force push or something--it's all saber play.

Zone Anakin isn't some kind of God, and his state of mind does not offer him invincibility. The novel makes repeated mentions of "unrestrained" and "let go"--as in let go of what he already had, not what he could have or will have, GL makes it clear he hasn't even achieved half his potential yet.

Which is why I say that he would own most people in a saber duel, but you match him up with someone with a greater command of the Force than his current incarnation, he's going to lose.

Now Zone Vader, THAT'D be something.

DrunknClockwork
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
The Nooooo was fueled by Darkness. Lord Zed was some kind of... hybrid? Paradox? Iunno.
ITZ Anakin too was fueled by rage and emotions, it's just was he was able to control them. So I don't see why he couldn't repeat this feat.



Originally posted by DrunknClockwork
he (Vader) lost a lot of force power (power, not potential) right there when he became half machine. This means that Vader's Force powers are FAR weaker than the ones Anakin had already displayed at some point before (in all likelihood during his ITZ state).
So when it says "unrestrained" and "let go", it is of something that is far greater than Vaders power of the Force.

Lord Lucien
Then I guess you've won. Vader is weaker than Anakin.

DrunknClockwork
Is this some kind of sarcasm I once again don't get? no expression

Lord Lucien
Nooooo, of course not.


messed

DrunknClockwork
I'm confused.

dontgetit

Mr. Anderson014
Originally posted by DrunknClockwork


a.) Anakin didn't really show a fine technique either; it was a display of superior Force powers where Dooku (or in Luke case Vader) simply couldn't defend against the ferocious strikes anymore.


Ummm looked like pretty damn good sword work to me i dont know what movie u were watching....

And not exactly sure how he shows superior force abilities at all during his fight with dooku...at least external force powers. His raw force power and unlimited force reserves combined with his superior saber technique is what won him the fight. Oh and the whole using the darkside thing too

stick out tongue

And i dont know why you guys are goin back and forth about this, aren't you both agreeing that "in teh zone" Anakin would win? lol

Galan007
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
The point isn't that he's really good at Force Choke. The point is that, despite tens of thousands of light-years distance between them, Vader's command of the Force is such that he can reach through that distance. It wasn't some spur of the moment burst of frustration that allowed for a boost in power, it was a controlled act, and he had the power to do it. Tens of thousands of light-years. Multiplied by 5.8 trillion miles. For every light-year. Limit that distance to a dozen feet. Exactly. thumb up

And keep in mind that Vader preformed the aforementioned feat while restraining himself... It's hard to even grasp.

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson014
And i dont know why you guys are goin back and forth about this, aren't you both agreeing that "in teh zone" Anakin would win? lol If a lightsaber is involved, zone Anakin would likely win -- I'm pretty sure everyone has agreed with that. The only thing being debated is who would win in a pure force battle. Personally, my money is on Vader due to the fact that he's demonstrated far superior external force prowess in comparison to Anakin.

Mr. Anderson014
I'd have to agree with you too, Galan. Anakin does have the more raw force power then vader, but vader is more knowledgeable and has a greater understanding of force techniques. I don't know how raw power would help him in a force fight...we see that its better utilized through saber combat more then anything else.

Galan007
Originally posted by Mr. Anderson014
I'd have to agree with you too, Galan. Anakin does have the more raw force power then vader, but vader is more knowledgeable and has a greater understanding of force techniques. I don't know how raw power would help him in a force fight...we see that its better utilized through saber combat more then anything else. Yeah, it's not like Anakin just showed up and wtfpwned Dooku with a superior force attack... Anakin's "thermonuclear furnace" of raw force energy was only used to, essentially, keep amping his already considerable physical stats, thereby overwhelming Dooku.

The above, however, is nowhere near the same as using external force powers in the fine tuned, and ridiculously powerful manner Vader has demonstrated (ie. choking Xizor from across the galaxy, while restraining himself.)

DrunknClockwork
I've essentially covered that in my last few posts but people don't seem to read them. no expression

Lord Lucien
Reaaallllly?

no expression

DrunknClockwork
Or did I? no expression

Anakin4Ever
In teh zone Anakin FTW! Not that it would be easy, it would be probably like the match between Galen and Vader. Of course, without the overpowering Force ripples that seem to shoot out of Galen's body.

Master_Galen
I'd have to choose In the zone Anakin over all. He would win in sabers and all out. Sure Vader is stronger in the force imo but In the zone Anakin was relentless man. If you take into acoount his saber skills, he defated Dooku in this state of mind who would beat Vader imho, and his endless energy reserves he would surely overpower or force Vader into a mistake.

You have to remember that Vader didn't have that much stamina in his slow and clumsy suit, also i don't think Vader would really get the chance to use his force powers as Anakin would just continually batter his defenses. Plus even though not as strong in the force as Vader, Anakin was no slouch either.

ares834
Vader wins.
"When I left you, I was but the learner; now I am the master."

Master_Galen
Originally posted by ares834
Vader wins.
"When I left you, I was but the learner; now I am the master."

Technically, Vader wasn't the master, he was a sith apprentice which i think is equal to jedi master but Obi-Wan was a high council jedi master so that still trumps Vader in terms of rank, maybe. Sidious is the master.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Master_Galen
Technically, Vader wasn't the master, he was a sith apprentice which i think is equal to jedi master but Obi-Wan was a high council jedi master so that still trumps Vader in terms of rank, maybe. Sidious is the master. You should learn to tell when someone's being facetious.

Master_Galen
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
You should learn to tell when someone's being facetious.

I was merely trying to get the debate back on track and at the same time further my point, that Vader was never really that much more powerful than Anakin as some people believed. Anakin was far superior in sabers and if he wasn't in the suit at the time of OT he would most definitely be superior in the force to OT Vader as well.

After all, is that not the whole point of a debate.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Master_Galen
I was merely trying to get the debate back on track and at the same time further my point, that Vader was never really that much more powerful than Anakin as some people believed. Anakin was far superior in sabers and if he wasn't in the suit at the time of OT he would most definitely be superior in the force to OT Vader as well.

After all, is that not the whole point of a debate. You're failing. Stop it.

Master_Galen
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
You're failing. Stop it.

Would you please kindly explain as to how it is that i am failing.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Master_Galen
Would you please kindly explain as to how it is that i am failing. Your post right here, is injected with it. If you can provide a confession of wild gesturing, then we can upgrade your status to condition: flailing.

Master_Galen
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Your post right here, is injected with it. If you can provide a confession of wild gesturing, then we can upgrade your status to condition: flailing.

Allriite. Btw you have said that Anakin wins in sabers and Vader wins in force, what about all out. If you already said it then soz i must not have seen it.

Lord Lucien
All-outs are hard to tell, as it's impossible to predict who will use what Force power or when. Anakin's clairvoyant enough here to think things through, but I maintain that Vader's more powerful and brutish in the Force enough to crush him. Depends who can hit who first: Anakin with a blade or Vader with a telekinetic crunch or something.

Master_Galen
I personally feel that the whole situation would probably have been set off by Anakin striking Vader with his saber first for Vader taunting him, what bout you?

Lord Lucien
I think Anakin would crack in to a raving nutball at the sight of his hideous, evil future, thereby rendering his Zone Powers inactive. Vader, hating having to look at the person he misses/despise most, would break his neck with the Force before Anakin knew what hit him.

Master_Galen
Damn. Yeah, i could definitely see it going down that way as well now that i think about it.

3 fishys
Vader doesn't have the force, so anakin uses the force to crumble vaders sht armour u bums

truejedi
no, you.

Jinsoku Takai
Originally posted by 3 fishys
Vader doesn't have the force, so anakin uses the force to crumble vaders sht armour u bums

Huh? Vader... can't use the Force? Son of a *****!

Slash_KMC
Ofcourse Vader can't use the Force, haven't you seen Robot Chicken?

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