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The main 3 consist of:

Silver Surfer
Thor
Beta Ray Bill

CIS/CIP is off for the trio. They use ALL of their abilities and is fighting to kill. This rule only applies to the main 3.


The JLA consist of:

Superman
Wonder Woman
GL (Hal)
Martian Manhunter
Orion (standard gear)
Captain Marvel

JLA.

JLA Massacres.

WTF? JLA stomps.

I'm just seeing a barrage of blasts coming from team one that includes the God blast, blast strong enough to create black holes, intagibility, etc...

What in the hell makes you think Thor gets the chance to fire off a GB? Beyond numbers, there's too much speed on the JLA's side for the three to win.

Originally posted by carver9
I'm just seeing a barrage of blasts coming from team one that includes the God blast, blast strong enough to create black holes, intagibility, etc...

so they'd fight the way you want them to, not the way they would even when not holding back?

jla stomp.

ww and superman take care of BRB in less than a minute\
CM and MM take out thor in two minutes
Orion and GL take out surfer in five minutes tops

JLA stomps. make it 3 on 3 and it will be a more even fight.

superman
GL
MM

vs

the Special main 3

Originally posted by -Pr-
so they'd fight the way you want them to, not the way they would even when not holding back? I thought that's what CIS/CIP off means? That they're no longer bound by in-character behavior and can fight in any way their powerset allows.

With CIS/CIP off only for the 3, I could see them holding their on and maybe winning. The JLA wouldn't be nearly as effective with their usual mentalities.

Originally posted by 753
I thought that's what CIS/CIP off means? That they're no longer bound by in-character behavior and can fight in any way their powerset allows.

With CIS/CIP off only for the 3, I could see them holding their on and maybe winning. The JLA wouldn't be nearly as effective with their usual mentalities.

This is what I was thinking. Amping abilities, Thor going into Warrior madness states, surfer shooting blast strong enough to create black holes, Beta Ray bill hitting people with planet destroying hits, etc...

Thor wins cause of this!

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=video&show_id=379994

"Come Storm!"

I think the trio could hold their own. Even win. The JLA team consisting almost entirely of beings who often engage their opponents up close really helps. Thor could battle remove nearly the entire lot of them with a few zaps. The trio better avoid getting dog piled etc. by any means.

Orion, Diana, and Hal can teleport. So, they aint being BFR.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
JLA.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Orion, Diana, and Hal can teleport. So, they aint being BFR. WW teleports? Anyway, trio can use timetravelling BFR, transdimensional BFR, etc.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Orion, Diana, and Hal can teleport. So, they aint being BFR.

idk about Orion, and didn't diana have to meditate and focus alot of "teleport" and also she did it like how many times? And with CIS off, Hal's ring is gonna get drained.

When Orion can just open boom tubes, no one is getting bfr.

If they can send bfr Captain Marvel and Manhunter far, far away, and that Surfer quickly kill Sups, they might have a shot.

But most likely, JLA stomp

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Orion, Diana, and Hal can teleport. So, they aint being BFR.

Well, since any of them have the tool Surfer have in his Cosmic Awarness power, it might really well be more difficult than that.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Well, since any of them have the tool Surfer have in his Cosmic Awarness power, it might really well be more difficult than that. What?

Originally posted by Juntai
What? They cant teleport on their own, they need equipmen to do it. SS could figure that out and searate them from their gizmos

Guys, don't forget it's CIS/CIP OFF for the main 3 (while the JLA still has CIS/CIP). The team can pull off wins here. Surfer turns his board into a FTL monomolecule blade and start lopping off heads. He can travel back in time and kill the JLA before they were born, shrink to microbe size and open black holes in their heads.

Thor can just lifeforce suck them. Godblast them while they try to resist super typhoons that he's creating....

BRB is just useless, tho.

I say JLA wins 7/10. The main 3 takes wins tho.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Guys, don't forget it's CIS/CIP OFF for the main 3 (while the JLA still has CIS/CIP). The team can pull off wins here. Surfer turns his board into a FTL monomolecule blade and start lopping off heads. He can travel back in time and kill the JLA before they were born, shrink to microbe size and open black holes in their heads.

Thor can just lifeforce suck them. Godblast them while they try to resist super typhoons that he's creating....

BRB is just useless, tho.

I say JLA wins 7/10. The main 3 takes wins tho. wtf? Respect BRB!

Originally posted by 753
wtf? Respect BRB!


BRB is equal to Thor. I respect the **** out of BRB, and he is one of the more interesting marvel characters.

BRB is not as versatile as Thor in using his abilities. And in this CIS/CIP environment, he doesn't have any cheap abilities that can exploit the stips.

Brute force isn't gonna win him anything in this fight. Team JLA has far more brute force than the 3 can ever muster and all BRB has been shown to be good for is hitting stuff.

Originally posted by carver9
The main 3 consist of:

Silver Surfer
Thor
Beta Ray Bill

CIS/CIP is off for the trio. They use ALL of their abilities and is fighting to kill. This rule only applies to the main 3. So everyone here argues for these 3 like they always do?

Originally posted by carver9
The main 3 consist of:

Silver Surfer
Thor
Beta Ray Bill

CIS/CIP is off for the trio. They use ALL of their abilities and is fighting to kill. This rule only applies to the main 3.


The JLA consist of:

Superman
Wonder Woman
GL (Hal)
Martian Manhunter
Orion (standard gear)
Captain Marvel
Its pretty obvious you just want to make a pro-Marvel spite thread.

Even with PIS/CIS on for JLA their numbers make this bad odds for the "Main 3".

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Orion, Diana, and Hal can teleport. So, they aint being BFR.

I know about Orion and Hal. Had not clue Diana could do it. What scene/issue are you referring to?

Still, if they manage to take out even half of the JLA members by battle field removal from the get go, this evens out their odds a lot.

They need to fight smart here.

Originally posted by 753
I thought that's what CIS/CIP off means? That they're no longer bound by in-character behavior and can fight in any way their powerset allows.

With CIS/CIP off only for the 3, I could see them holding their on and maybe winning. The JLA wouldn't be nearly as effective with their usual mentalities.

no, it's not. they don't fight the way you want them to. they just fight with less restrictions than before.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Its pretty obvious you just want to make a pro-Marvel spite thread.

Even with PIS/CIS on for JLA their numbers make this bad odds for the "Main 3".

i wouldn't even consider Bill to be in the top 3 either.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

They need to fight smart here.

And they still lose.

Although I love Bill, I don't see the point of him here. Thor makes him a bit redundant. I don't know who I'd replace him with so I guess Bill is better than Gladiator or some other generic brick. Massive offensive power plus the potential to be incredibly versatile will do.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
And they still lose in my opinion.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
And they still lose.

I'm not sure if the complexity of my master plan escaped you, but when I quoted you, I fixed your post. I didn't quote you in agreement. Just to be clear.

I guess it's understandable. You are primarily a Wonder Woman fan are you not?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'm not sure if the complexity of my master plan escaped you, but when I quoted you, I fixed your post. I didn't quote you in agreement. Just to be clear.

I guess it's understandable. You are primarily a Wonder Woman fan are you not?

First, you didn't fix anything. I changed my quote back the way I intended it. Shall we take a glance at your posts and see if you end every one of them "in my opinion?" The answer is no. Most people with half a brain know that we are stating our opinions on these fights. Althought in reality, you do seem to think that everything you say is gospel so I can see how you might have been confused.

And your Thor fanboyism is off the charts so don't even play that very weak card.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
First, you didn't fix anything. I changed my quote back the way I intended it. Shall we take a glance at your posts and see if you end every one of them "in my opinion?" The answer is no. Most people with half a brain know that we are stating our opinions on these fights. Althought in reality, you do seem to think that everything you say is gospel so I can see how you might have been confused.

And your Thor fanboyism is off the charts so don't even play that very weak card.

You basically posted my answer. Everything I say is the gospel truth. You on the other hand....well, the "in my opinion" phrase is your fall back card.

Be right back.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You basically posted my answer. Everything I say is the gospel truth. You on the other hand....well, the "in my opinion" phrase is your fall back card.

Be right back.

A phrase that I didn't use is my fall back card. Your logic is . . . astounding.

Oh, I have no doubt that you believe that. The problem with the gospel truth is that it rarely, if ever, is actually true. But keep living in that made up world of yours. I'm sure it must keep you very happy.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
So everyone here argues for these 3 like they always do? Yes, but no one can call us on it.

Originally posted by -Pr-
no, it's not. they don't fight the way you want them to. they just fight with less restrictions than before.



i wouldn't even consider Bill to be in the top 3 either.

Which less restrictions? I take CIP to mean self-imposed moral inhibitions to lethal use of power and CIS to mean poor use of a powerset due to lack of creativity, intelligence or strategic finesse. With both off, why can't we refer to them using their powers in anyway their powersets allow it?

What self-imposed limitations of power use should remain?

Originally posted by 753
Which less restrictions? I take CIP to mean self-imposed moral inhibitions to lethal use of power and CIS to mean poor use of a powerset due to lack of creativity, intelligence or strategic finesse. With both off, why can't we refer to them using their powers in anyway their powersets allow it?

What self-imposed limitations of power use should remain?

you're right to a point. morals go out the window, and they're prepared to use lethal force. it STILL has to be something they've either done before or shown to be reasonably capable of given their own intelligence, though.

Originally posted by -Pr-
you're right to a point. morals go out the window, and they're prepared to use lethal force. it STILL has to be something they've either done before or shown to be reasonably capable of given their own intelligence, though. Well, they have done all the things people here are claiming and I thought elimating CIS would take care of the intelligence limitation to a point. Like Rhino, who isn't smart enough to avoid pools of wet cement would have a better chance at winning with CIS off - not that he'd become a tactical genius without CIS and pull batman tricks out of hsi ass, but his grotesque stupidity would be disregarded. Likewise thor would focus on range attacks, energy drain and BFR instead of brawling it out like a moron.

Originally posted by 753
Well, they have done all the things people here are claiming and I thought elimating CIS would take care of the intelligence limitation to a point. Like Rhino, who isn't smart enough to avoid pools of wet cement would have a better chance at winning with CIS off - not that he'd become a tactical genius without CIS and pull batman tricks out of hsi ass, but his grotesque stupidity would be disregarded. Likewise thor would focus on range attacks, energy drain and BFR instead of brawling it out like a moron.

no. intelligence isn't disregarded. intelligence is constant regardless.

and yes, with no restrictions thor would fight smartly, as would surfer, superman, green lantern, flash, blackbolt etc

they're still bound by their own intelligence and tactical ability though. they're not going to think up strategies that we do just because it's in their powerset.

Originally posted by -Pr-
no. intelligence isn't disregarded. intelligence is constant regardless.

and yes, with no restrictions thor would fight smartly, as would surfer, superman, green lantern, flash, blackbolt etc

they're still bound by their own intelligence and tactical ability though. they're not going to think up strategies that we do just because it's in their powerset. But if they have ever displayed a certain power use, it's acceptable?

Originally posted by 753
But if they have ever displayed a certain power use, it's acceptable?

would go on a case by case basis.

Originally posted by Juntai
What?

What I meant is: If Surfer tp the shit out of Martian Manhunter some light years away, for exemple, who would go get him, if they don't know where he is? Surfer can track dudes with his Cosmic Awarness, but does someone in the JLA team can do the same?

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
What I meant is: If Surfer tp the shit out of Martian Manhunter some light years away, for exemple, who would go get him, if they don't know where he is? Surfer can track dudes with his Cosmic Awarness, but does someone in the JLA team can do the same? A GL should be able to

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
What I meant is: If Surfer tp the shit out of Martian Manhunter some light years away, for exemple, who would go get him, if they don't know where he is? Surfer can track dudes with his Cosmic Awarness, but does someone in the JLA team can do the same?

how would surfer do that in the first place? Assuming he even could.

Originally posted by DarkOdin
A GL should be able to

Maybe, I don't know

Originally posted by -Pr-
how would surfer do that in the first place? Assuming he even could. Why wouldn't he be able to do it?

Originally posted by 753
Why wouldn't he be able to do it?

because J'onn is a better psychic than Norrin?

Well, the tactics I mentioned are all viable.

Norrin is probably the most dangerous with CIS/CIP off.

With CIS/CIP off, I can see Norrin taking down Superman via weakness exploit before they can even react (due to CIS/CIP on the JLA side, they WON'T go for the blitz and Superman will most likely tank the first hit like he normally does). Then maybe shrink down to microverse level, enter CM's brain and pop a singularity in there. After that, I can see the JLA reacting and things get a bit more interesting.

Also, time travel cheapness is a viable tactic here for the Surfer. He's done it before.

Split

Originally posted by -Pr-
how would surfer do that in the first place? Assuming he even could.

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/7614/daredevil28116hz4.jpg

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/6421/fantasticfour07611fe5.jpg

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/1220/spidermanteamup0204jb9.jpg

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/7769/theincrediblehulkv24150va8.jpg

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9379/silversurfer03p29um4.jpg

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/8891/silversurfer03702yg5.jpg

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/5554/silversurfer03703kp8.jpg


That's how Surfer does it. Now, can any member of the JLA do this?

Originally posted by -Pr-
because J'onn is a better psychic than Norrin?

Surfer has the Cosmic Awarness, which does the job perfectly. Probably better that any feat of tracking John ever had. Also, in telepathy, Surfer is no slouch himself:

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/6558/silversurferannual0226lof6.jpg




http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/9205/img020wu0.jpg

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/5448/img021sm5.jpg

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/2108/img022hn2.jpg

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/743/img023vb0.jpg


So, tu summerise it: Surfer pwn

I can't see the current versions of the Main 3 taking down a competent version of this JLA even with CIS/PIS of for them....I just can't see it.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Surfer has the Cosmic Awarness, which does the job perfectly. Probably better that any feat of tracking John ever had. Also, in telepathy, Surfer is no slouch himself:

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/6558/silversurferannual0226lof6.jpg




http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/9205/img020wu0.jpg

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/5448/img021sm5.jpg

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/2108/img022hn2.jpg

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/743/img023vb0.jpg


So, tu summerise it: Surfer pwn

his cosmic awareness isn't nearly as developed as you claim. he's no genis.

i've seen all those scans before. i don't know what they're supposed to prove, considering last i checked requiem wasn't canon.

being "no slouch" isn't the same as being able to match one of the premier telepaths in DC.

he's not telepathically beating j'onn.

Originally posted by -Pr-
because J'onn is a better psychic than Norrin? We were discussing BFR, TP there meant teleportation not telepathy. He could BFR MMH and the others wouldn't know how to go get him as they lack cosmic awareness and tracking senses of his level.

Originally posted by 753
We were discussing BFR, TP there meant teleportation not telepathy. He could BFR MMH and the others wouldn't know how to go get him as they lack cosmic awareness and tracking senses of his level.

oh, teleportation.

gl rings can scan in to other universes, though. a long shot but a possibility.

aint no way these 3 will win over that many.

Orion & Green Lantern > Silver Surfer
Superman & Wonder Woman > Thor
Martian Manhunter & Captain Marvel > Beta Ray Bill

Isn't this a spite thread? Anyway, the Justice League via numbers.

Surfer and Thor are pretty awesome w/ CIS/CIP off. Just to point out a few things the Surfer can do and HAS done in the past:

-Turn his board into a FTL flying super accurate guillotine
-Travel back in time to stop the JLA from being born
-Shrink to microverse level. Add that with the ability to open black holes = ouch.
-Pull people in the Astral plan where (apparently) the Power Cosmic can pretty much dominate anything.

Thor has the godblast and lifeforce suck as well.

Sadly, BRB is useless here.

Not saying they win, just saying they don't get stomped. Might even pull a win or 2.

JLA but by the skin of their teeth.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Surfer and Thor are pretty awesome w/ CIS/CIP off. Just to point out a few things the Surfer can do and HAS done in the past:

-Turn his board into a FTL flying super accurate guillotine
-Travel back in time to stop the JLA from being born
-Shrink to microverse level. Add that with the ability to open black holes = ouch.
-Pull people in the Astral plan where (apparently) the Power Cosmic can pretty much dominate anything.

Thor has the godblast and lifeforce suck as well.

Sadly, BRB is useless here.

Not saying they win, just saying they don't get stomped. Might even pull a win or 2.


they won't pull a win at all.
this is a stomp.

Originally posted by -Pr-
no. intelligence isn't disregarded. intelligence is constant regardless.

and yes, with no restrictions thor would fight smartly, as would surfer, superman, green lantern, flash, blackbolt etc

they're still bound by their own intelligence and tactical ability though. they're not going to think up strategies that we do just because it's in their powerset.
That doesn't really make sense pr. I mean it stands for Character induced stupidity the root examples of CIS in action are guys like Rhino, so if CIS is turned off it seems like it means that intelligence goes out the window. If the character is still dumb, his character induced stupidity still seems to be in effect. CIP being turned off would certainly be different scenario though.

We borrow the term from CBR and by their definition pretty much any logical extension of a characters powerset that's supported by feats is acceptable when it's turned off. Not that I'm saying we have to be like them mind you, but if we're going to take the term in a different direction we should probably clarify it in the rules to avoid confusion and tell people the proper term to use if they mean our equiveant of CBR's No CIS.

Originally posted by darthgoober
That doesn't really make sense pr. I mean it stands for Character induced stupidity the root examples of CIS in action are guys like Rhino, so if CIS is turned off it seems like it means that intelligence goes out the window. If the character is still dumb, his character induced stupidity still seems to be in effect. CIP being turned off would certainly be different scenario though.

We borrow the term from CBR and by their definition pretty much any logical extension of a characters powerset that's supported by feats is acceptable when it's turned off. Not that I'm saying we have to be like them mind you, but if we're going to take the term in a different direction we should probably clarify it in the rules to avoid confusion and tell people the proper term to use if they mean our equiveant of CBR's No CIS.

i was talking about CIP, sorry.

CIS is an inaccurate term imo.