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Johnny Cage is paid a visit by Mephisto,

mephisto: i have a job for you johnny....

GR: i dont work for you..

Mephisto: no, but u serve vengeance do u not?
mmhm..... there are vampires in the world johnny.. do you know what they feed on?

find them and kill them bring them to me where i can punish them for eternity..

can ghost rider kill them one on one like he did the fallen angels in his movie?

1. 1on1 cullen family.

2. 1on1 wolf pack

3. 1on1 Volturi

who stops GR and why? also rerun the gauntlet but this time he faces each clan as a whole..

johnny cage arrives to the small town as night fall, falls. he revs his engine and transforms and one can hear the cries of the anguished as the transformation takes hold.. he looks around and drives off letting his supernatural senses lead him to his mark..

GR has no real weaknesses on screen, from what I see. He really can't die.


Current GR is one of the strongest beings on Earth, at the moment...


Anywho, should be GR simply because the vamps have no way of killing him: no magical spells.

I would say that after being in that world for about an hour, Ghost Rider would hang himself with his own chain.

And it's Johnny Blaze.

HOLY SHIT its Tron. How are you doing?

How would Twi-Vamps handle the Penance Stare?

Johnny Cage haermm

Heh heh. "Cage."

lol...well, he did manage to defeat Goro and Scorpion

Ghost rider rapes the Twivamps.

his name is johnny cage b/c he doesnt remotely resemble johnny blaze from the comic..

tattoos and scars looks more like johnny blaze then cage..

johnny had blond hair or strawberry blond slight red hair in comics and had scruff later on.

His name was Robert Paulson.

Originally posted by King Castle
his name is johnny cage b/c he doesnt remotely resemble johnny blaze from the comic..

tattoos and scars looks more like johnny blaze then cage..

johnny had blond hair or strawberry blond slight red hair in comics and had scruff later on.





Thanks for the compliment, King!

Originally posted by Impediment
Heh heh. "Cage." Oh shit I get it, Nic Cage haermm

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Oh shit I get it, Nic Cage haermm

Getting old, RJ? Couldn't catch the joke?

Originally posted by Impediment
Getting old, RJ? Couldn't catch the joke? Apparently you and I are the only two who got it. Must be a "fat Texas guy thing."

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
How would Twi-Vamps handle the Penance Stare?

They won't. Even the "good" vampires have sins that can be used to fuel the Stare. The only people I can see who might not be affected would be the Quiletes, and even that's iffy. Ghost Rider wins in a methodically agonizing fashion.

GR too easy

What a bunch of retards.

Do the vampires the have souls? Probably not, as they're undead. So the Penance Stare won't work.

Though some fruit-cake guy like DDM who watches the Twilight films with his wife could probably give details if they have souls or no.

They modern "vampires," Robtard. Of course they have souls! dur-rage

Ghostrider wins because Twilight is gay.

Originally posted by Robtard
What a bunch of retards.

Do the vampires the have souls? Probably not, as they're undead. So the Penance Stare won't work.

Though some fruit-cake guy like DDM who watches the Twilight films with his wife could probably give details if they have souls or no. aaaaaaahahahahahhahaahhahaahhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
ahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaahahahhahahahaahah
aaaaahahahaahhahahaaaahahaahhahaha Robtard is a GOD amongst men!!!!

Originally posted by Robtard
What a bunch of retards.

Do the vampires the have souls? Probably not, as they're undead. So the Penance Stare won't work.

Though some fruit-cake guy like DDM who watches the Twilight films with his wife could probably give details if they have souls or no.

Carlisle thinks they do, Edward doesn't.

Its kind of funny how people either love twilight too much or just hate it with a fiery passion. Why cant people just be indifferent to some things.

Originally posted by Tron

And it's Johnny Blaze.

Daniel Ketch

TwiVamps are all guilty of murder. The Penance Stare would crumble the punks.....all of them.

He simply beats the crap out of the WolfPack.

Voltori die faster than the Cullens do.....guilty by nature.

Vengeance will be served!

It's not only about guilt, in point of fact. It's about the soul. Blackheart killed quite a few people, but the stare didn't work the first time. It only worked when he became legion with all those souls in him.

That's why I had him fight the WolfPack.

The Voltori wont handle the stare.

The Cullens regardless of their newfound lifestyle still murdered people at some stage for food. Not self Defence just out of hunger and in some cases Vengeance.

Guess u don't realize that u HAVE to have a soul for the penance stare to work...... vampire lore is pretty specific on that point, about them not having any souls. Therefore the stare is not an option here.

chos, the fact you tried to use vampire lore and "Twilight" in the same idea is failure. Everything about Twilight shits on vampire lore.

Originally posted by omgchos
Guess u don't realize that u HAVE to have a soul for the penance stare to work...... vampire lore is pretty specific on that point, about them not having any souls. Therefore the stare is not an option here.

TwiVamps aren't vampires they are more like Golems whose physiology is so condensed that they have incredible reflexes, strength and durability. Blood is needed to keep their bodies from drying up.

They have souls it's just that their hunger makes them feel like they don't have one.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
chos, the fact you tried to use vampire lore and "Twilight" in the same idea is failure. Everything about Twilight shits on vampire lore.
The fact that you hate something this much is a failure. I mean this kinda sounds like back when all the harry potter vs. forums were going around. All those guys would argue against HP simply because they hated. And got all snippy when someone seems to back the side your up against. All i was pointing out is that he keeps saying because they killed somebody that means his penance stare is just gonna own em all. And btw do you know how much vampire lore their is? Cuz most vampire lore shits on itself. There are more different types of Vamps in the world than there are religions. But as i was saying........ pretty much all of them say no soul.

Originally posted by the ninjak
TwiVamps aren't vampires they are more like Golems whose biology is so condensed that they have incredible reflexes, strength and durability. Blood is needed to keep their bodies from drying up.

They have souls it's just that their hunger makes them feel like they don't have one.
So you wrote the books, and the screenplay fo the movies, eh?

Originally posted by omgchos
So you wrote the books, and the screenplay fo the movies, eh?

They love, they hate, they fear and they make jokes. That psychic one is full of soul and humour.

The only people in the films who say they are souless are the wolfpack and their victims.

Originally posted by the ninjak
They love, they hate, they fear and they make jokes. That psychic one is full of soul and humour.

The only people in the films who say they are souless are the wolfpack and their victims.
And all the vampires think so too. In fact its a point of contention between the romantic interests of the film. Because she wants to be a vampire but he says he doesn't want to take her soul away.

Originally posted by the ninjak
They love, they hate, they fear and they make jokes. That psychic one is full of soul and humour.

The only people in the films who say they are souless are the wolfpack and their victims.

And, um, Edward.

Originally posted by Placidity
And, um, Edward.

Edward is just playing emo to get some ass!

Originally posted by the ninjak
Edward is just playing emo to get some ass!
Ninjak is just insulting twilight cuz he jumped on the bandwagon. I hate bandwagons. Get ur own opinions.

Originally posted by omgchos
Ninjak is just insulting twilight cuz he jumped on the bandwagon. I hate bandwagons. Get ur own opinions.

How am I insulting it. Edward is infatuated with this girl....but in order to have her she has to become like him. Which he doesn't want because it will turn her into a powerful hungry predator. Which could be seen as being souless. But you wouldn't call a lion souless.

And what the hell are you talking about getting my own opinions I haven't changed any. And I've never read the books I just call it as I see it.

Originally posted by the ninjak
How am I insulting it. Edward is infatuated with this girl....but in order to have her she has to become like him. Which he doesn't want because it will turn her into a powerful hungry predator. Which could be seen as being souless. But you wouldn't call a lion souless.


Actually he doesn't want to turn her because he doesn't believe vampires have souls. He and Carlisle discussed this in the book and its very clear they were talking about souls in the literal/spiritual/religious sense.

Originally posted by the ninjak
How am I insulting it. Edward is infatuated with this girl....but in order to have her she has to become like him. Which he doesn't want because it will turn her into a powerful hungry predator. Which could be seen as being souless. But you wouldn't call a lion souless.

And what the hell are you talking about getting my own opinions I haven't changed any.
Changed any what? And you keep dancing around this soulless is just an opinion thing. U went from "it's only the wolf pack and their victims" to "Edward only thinks so cuz shes gonna eat ppl now". Which means you either didn't wanna mention it the first time, or you formed some type of bias opinion cuz you think ghost rider should beat the twi vamps. Lets put it this way, ghost rider has alot more powers than the penance stare, which would require him to stare into their eyes for a second or two.... close up. We know these twivamps can move at super-fast speeds. So i dont see how the penance stare even enters your mind in this argument.
Not only are they soulless but its obsolete in this fight.

Originally posted by Placidity
Actually he doesn't want to turn her because he doesn't believe vampires have souls. He and Carlisle discussed this in the book and its very clear they were talking about souls in the literal/spiritual/religious sense.

Originally posted by the ninjak
And I've never read the books I just call it as I see it.

It's all good. Although just because these predators have a hunger that constatly trials them. Doesn't mean that they don't necessarily have a soul. Serial Killers and families of their victims say they don't have souls but they still have them.

Originally posted by the ninjak
It's all good. Although just because these predators have a hunger that constatly trials them. Doesn't mean that they don't necessarily have a soul. Serial Killers and families of their victims say they don't have souls but they still have them.
See what i mean...... u keep repeating the same argument. These are vampires my friend..... not lions..... not serial killers (in the real world sense that is)..... and its not a philosophical discussion. So idk why u keep repeating yourself. This is a novel about vampires, albeit a variation of the Bram Stoker vampire we all know and love. But yet vampires in every magical sense of the word. And according to them they dont have souls. So im sorry but just cuz you tell me a serial killer has a soul even tho he kills people..... doesn't follow the argument at hand.

Originally posted by omgchos
Changed any what? And you keep dancing around this soulless is just an opinion thing. U went from "it's only the wolf pack and their victims" to "Edward only thinks so cuz shes gonna eat ppl now". Which means you either didn't wanna mention it the first time, or you formed some type of bias opinion cuz you think ghost rider should beat the twi vamps. Lets put it this way, ghost rider has alot more powers than the penance stare, which would require him to stare into their eyes for a second or two.... close up. We know these twivamps can move at super-fast speeds. So i dont see how the penance stare even enters your mind in this argument.
Not only are they soulless but its obsolete in this fight.

It's wierd that you call yourself the hater of haters. Your base breakdown of my comments is childish. If they don't have souls in the end then fine. As I said I didn't read the books just watched the films from the port glass (I'm a projectionist). I was one of the first people on this forum who stood up for the TwiVamps in battles. I'm aware of what they can do. But going by the films just because Edward says he has no soul makes sense considering what they are.

Originally posted by omgchos
See what i mean...... u keep repeating the same argument. These are vampires my friend..... not lions..... not serial killers (in the real world sense that is)..... and its not a philosophical discussion. So idk why u keep repeating yourself. This is a novel about vampires, albeit a variation of the Bram Stoker vampire we all know and love. But yet vampires in every magical sense of the word. And according to them they dont have souls. So im sorry but just cuz you tell me a serial killer has a soul even tho he kills people..... doesn't follow the argument at hand.

I respect your argument but I refuse to believe they are of the Undead type I grew up with. Being Reanimated corpses possessed by demons. Who burn under the Sun and can't stand holy relics.

They seem to be more a biological mutation.

Originally posted by the ninjak
It's wierd that you call yourself the hater of haters. Your base breakdown of my comments is childish. If they don't have souls in the end then fine. As I said I didn't read the books just watched the films from the port glass (I'm a projectionist). I was one of the first people on this forum who stood up for the TwiVamps in battles. I'm aware of what they can do. But going by the films just because Edward says he has no soul makes sense considering what they are.
Does it make you feel like smarter to call people childish? And when you say "base breakdown" it doesnt make you seem smarter, it makes you seem like you like to use big words that dont go next to each other in that context. I made a "base breakdown" of your comments? Neway now it sounds like you're agreeing with me..... so what gives?

Originally posted by the ninjak
I respect your argument but I refuse to believe they are of the Undead type I grew up with. Being Reanimated corpses possessed by demons. Who burn under the Sun and can't stand holy relics.

They seem to be more a biological mutation.
U don't get super powers, adamantium-like skin, and speed comperable to an airplane, through a biological mutaion. I mean one of the vamps can see the future.

Originally posted by the ninjak
I respect your argument but I refuse to believe they are of the Undead type I grew up with. Being Reanimated corpses possessed by demons. Who burn under the Sun and can't stand holy relics.


Thats is not the only criterion of a vampire. If it were so, most well known vampires would not be one according to you.

Originally posted by the ninjak

They seem to be more a biological mutation.

They are medically dead.

Originally posted by omgchos
U don't get super powers, adamantium-like skin, and speed comperable to an airplane, through a biological mutaion. I mean one of the vamps can see the future.

Well, you could... but its not likely to be the case here.

Its pretty much up to the author to decide...

Originally posted by omgchos
The fact that you hate something this much is a failure. I mean this kinda sounds like back when all the harry potter vs. forums were going around. All those guys would argue against HP simply because they hated. And got all snippy when someone seems to back the side your up against. All i was pointing out is that he keeps saying because they killed somebody that means his penance stare is just gonna own em all. And btw do you know how much vampire lore their is? Cuz most vampire lore shits on itself. There are more different types of Vamps in the world than there are religions. But as i was saying........ pretty much all of them say no soul.

Vampires are monstrous creatures, not pale, rock-skinned regular joes.

Vampires abhor and/or are destroyed by sunlight, they do not shine like someone rubbed them down with too much sparkle oil.

Vampires may only enter one's home through invitation, not just sneak into some dumb broad's room to watch her in the middle of the night.

These are just a few points.

Y'know what else, chos? I've actually enjoyed the books, they're a guilty pleasure for me. That doesn't change the fact that Twilight vamps shit on traditional vampire lore, more than it might be skewed or interpreted elsewhere. So you can get off your high horse and tell me not to "hate", because I'm not, and I wouldn't be surprised if at any point in time Ms. Meyer comes out and says that TwiVamps have souls, but until then, it's speculation in favor of, in my opinion.

Originally posted by Placidity
Well, you could... but its not likely to be the case here.

Its pretty much up to the author to decide...
Actually i should have included the contagion factor. I mean for them to develop these powers and abilities through some freak evolutionary factor. What are the odds that they would evolve past what they are, and that they would pass their mutation along through a bite. And why would this mutation make them immortal?

Originally posted by omgchos
U don't get super powers, adamantium-like skin, and speed comperable to an airplane, through a biological mutaion. I mean one of the vamps can see the future.

Umm...Marvel and the X-Men would like to have a word with you.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Vampires are monstrous creatures, not pale, rock-skinned regular joes.

Vampires abhor and/or are destroyed by sunlight, they do not shine like someone rubbed them down with too much sparkle oil.

Vampires may only enter one's home through invitation, not just sneak into some dumb broad's room to watch her in the middle of the night.

These are just a few points.

Y'know what else, chos? I've actually enjoyed the books, they're a guilty pleasure for me. That doesn't change the fact that Twilight vamps shit on traditional vampire lore, more than it might be skewed or interpreted elsewhere. So you can get off your high horse and tell me not to "hate", because I'm not, and I say I wouldn't be surprised if at any point in time Ms. Meyer comes out and says that TwiVamps have souls, but until then, it's speculation in favor of.
All u just did was spout "Bram Stoker" and TV vampire lore...... I mean no one really cared about vampires until he wrote this book. They werent even called that specifically. They've had hundreds of names and attributes. Some cultures think vamps can't cross water. Some think they're just bloated corpses that walk around at night and eat ppl. All you did just now was repeat what the show Angel made vapires out to be.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Umm...Marvel and the X-Men would like to have a word with you.
X-men is not 100% mutation and if it were true in twilight they wouldn't have been the only ones to get this. I mean the indians turn into wolves and the vamps bite people. Never in the movie did it say that there was anything else. Seems like if it was a mutation we would see some X-men stuff. Not just contagious vampires and skinwalkers.

Angel? I'm sorry, you mean the show where "monstrous" constituted a ridiculous change in facial features and no other part of their body being affected at all? Please, Van Helsing did a better job with the classic vampire than Angel did, and Bram Stoker did a bang up job with his rendition of it as well, though he certainly romanticized them much more than had ever been done before. Excuse me if I really don't feel like putting much effort when it's three in the damn morning for me. I could have easily mentioned Vlad the Impaler, one of the original sources for the vampire mythology, or even Elizabeth Bathory, who did the whole bathing in blood schtick, but really I just wanted to get my point across, and that is that Twilight changes the traditional view of vampires drastically.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Vampires are monstrous creatures, not pale, rock-skinned regular joes.


No not always.

The Vampire Diaries and Anne Rice Vamps are examples of Vampires having attractiveness and charm as traits.

Many others are not monstrous...

Originally posted by XanatosForever

Vampires abhor and/or are destroyed by sunlight, they do not shine like someone rubbed them down with too much sparkle oil.


Alucard.


Originally posted by XanatosForever

Vampires may only enter one's home through invitation, not just sneak into some dumb broad's room to watch her in the middle of the night.


Blade, Underworld, Anne Rice.

Originally posted by omgchos
X-men is not 100% mutation and if it were true in twilight they wouldn't have been the only ones to get this. I mean the indians turn into wolves and the vamps bite people. Never in the movie did it say that there was anything else. Seems like if it was a mutation we would see some X-men stuff. Not just contagious vampires and skinwalkers.

Not 100% mutation? What? You have got to be joking. The X-men and all other mutants are created from a mutated gene in their DNA called the X-Gene. The majority of the human race is afraid of these mutants because of their mutation and what it does to them and what it means for the future of the human species.

Only...y'know, there's the whole psychic powers things. Seeing the future, that's totally not an X-Men thing...oh wait.

Well, at least there's nothing like controlling emotions in X-Men...Well, hold on...

Mind reading! That's definitely not an X-men thing...erm...

You're right, though, that shapeshifting thing is totally original...

The durable skin that sparkles. Not an X-men thing either...



dur-rage

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Angel? I'm sorry, you mean the show where "monstrous" constituted a ridiculous change in facial features and no other part of their body being affected at all? Please, Van Helsing did a better job with the classic vampire than Angel did, and Bram Stoker did a bang up job with his rendition of it as well, though he certainly romanticized them much more than had ever been done before. Excuse me if I really don't feel like putting much effort when it's three in the damn morning for me. I could have easily mentioned Vlad the Impaler, one of the original sources for the vampire mythology, or even Elizabeth Bathory, who did the whole bathing in blood schtick, but really I just wanted to get my point across, and that is that Twilight changes the traditional view of vampires drastically.

U do realize that whole paragraph was a perfect example of what i just said. U think vampirism just showed up some time after vlad. I just want to point out how wrong you are. Vlad was the inspiration for Bram Stoker.... not for vampyres themselves. Demonic beings that feed off of the living or the undead that inhabit bodies to the same end have been around since the frikin mesopotamians. I mean its kinda funny how people think they know about vapires just cuz they know about vlad the impaler. And as for Bathony..... there is almost no evidence to support the fact that she did any of those things. FAIL

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Not 100% mutation? What? You have got to be joking. The X-men and all other mutants are created from a mutated gene in their DNA called the X-Gene. The majority of the human race is afraid of these mutants because of their mutation and what it does to them and what it means for the future of the human species.

Only...y'know, there's the whole psychic powers things. Seeing the future, that's totally not an X-Men thing...oh wait.

Well, at least there's nothing like controlling emotions in X-Men...Well, hold on...

Mind reading! That's definitely not an X-men thing...erm...

You're right, though, that shapeshifting thing is totally original...

The durable skin that sparkles. Not an X-men thing either...



dur-rage

Yes, I have to disagree with X-men not being 100% mutants. Its not about how much sense it makes, its up to the author to say whatever and it becomes law.

On the other hand, he did make a few very good points on why Twilight characters are very unlikely to be mutants.

Originally posted by omgchos
U do realize that whole paragraph was a perfect example of what i just said. U think vampirism just showed up some time after vlad. I just want to point out how wrong you are. Vlad was the inspiration for Bram Stoker.... not for vampyres themselves. Demonic beings that feed off of the living or the undead that inhabit bodies to the same end have been around since the frikin mesopotamians. I mean its kinda funny how people think they know about vapires just cuz they know about vlad the impaler. And as for Bathony..... there is almost no evidence to support the fact that she did any of those things. FAIL

Again, you're missing my point. I could really use my brain meats at three in the morning to give you more than popcorn references, but I'm up at three in the morning and not feeling all that willing to do such a thing. Twilight changes things in kind of a big way when it comes to looking at vampires. That's what I'm saying. I don't care that you want me to not use pop culture to get that point across, I really don't.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Not 100% mutation? What? You have got to be joking. The X-men and all other mutants are created from a mutated gene in their DNA called the X-Gene. The majority of the human race is afraid of these mutants because of their mutation and what it does to them and what it means for the future of the human species.

Only...y'know, there's the whole psychic powers things. Seeing the future, that's totally not an X-Men thing...oh wait.

Well, at least there's nothing like controlling emotions in X-Men...Well, hold on...

Mind reading! That's definitely not an X-men thing...erm...

You're right, though, that shapeshifting thing is totally original...

The durable skin that sparkles. Not an X-men thing either...



dur-rage
Sigh....... u just totally took the bluntest view of what i just said. So what your saying is that these are genetic mutaions but 5 ppl in the world get them? Gee kind of sounds magical to me. And like i said no one seems to be just turning into vampires. Seems like the need to bite you before you become them.

Originally posted by omgchos
U don't get super powers, adamantium-like skin, and speed comperable to an airplane, through a biological mutaion. I mean one of the vamps can see the future.

Xmen?

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Y'know what else, chos? I've actually enjoyed the books, they're a guilty pleasure for me. That doesn't change the fact that Twilight vamps shit on traditional vampire lore, more than it might be skewed or interpreted elsewhere. So you can get off your high horse and tell me not to "hate", because I'm not, and I wouldn't be surprised if at any point in time Ms. Meyer comes out and says that TwiVamps have souls, but until then, it's speculation in favor of, in my opinion.

I was just gonna write that but had to have dinner. They are not traditional vampires. And yes in the realm of fiction a mutation can make a humanoid clinically dead hard as stone and psychic abilities. Their enhanced state evolves them to these potentials.

Originally posted by omgchos
Sigh....... u just totally took the bluntest view of what i just said. So what your saying is that these are genetic mutaions but 5 ppl in the world get them? Gee kind of sounds magical to me. And like i said no one seems to be just turning into vampires. Seems like the need to bite you before you become them.

Some mutants are vampires in appearance and ability.

Originally posted by Placidity
Yes, I have to disagree with X-men not being 100% mutants. Its not about how much sense it makes, its up to the author to say whatever and it becomes law.

On the other hand, he did make a few very good points on why Twilight characters are very unlikely to be mutants.

That's fine, I was mostly trolling him for calling X-men non-mutants. I really shouldn't even be up this late, it's probably affecting my thought process or something.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Again, you're missing my point. I could really use my brain meats at three in the morning to give you more than popcorn references, but I'm up at three in the morning and not feeling all that willing to do such a thing. Twilight changes things in kind of a big way when it comes to looking at vampires. That's what I'm saying. I don't care that you want me to not use pop culture to get that point across, I really don't.
U said quite plainly that vlad was the ORIGIONAL inspiration for vampires. So u were lying? Or ur making excuses about your brain not working. Maybe u should go to bed if ur brain is that disfunctional.......

Originally posted by XanatosForever
That's fine, I was mostly trolling him for calling X-men non-mutants. I really shouldn't even be up this late, it's probably affecting my thought process or something.
Yeah its always trolling when ur losing an argument isnt it?

Originally posted by omgchos
U said quite plainly that vlad was the ORIGIONAL inspiration for vampires. So u were lying? Or ur making excuses about your brain not working. Maybe u should go to bed if ur brain is that disfunctional.......

Probably. I'm sure I'll lay down an apology or something when I get back on later today.

Originally posted by omgchos
Yeah its always trolling when ur losing an argument isnt it?

What argument? That the X-men aren't 100% mutants? No, that's pretty much just a wrong statement, and yes, I was messing with you for saying it because I'm sure you're not so stupid as to mean something like that literally.

And i just wanna point out that what i meant when i said that u dont get those powers through mutation, i meant in one specific person. And also those powers are the same throughout all of them. Except for the few who have some type of mind based power.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by omgchos
U don't get super powers, adamantium-like skin, and speed comperable to an airplane, through a biological mutaion. I mean one of the vamps can see the future.



Xmen?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by XanatosForever
Y'know what else, chos? I've actually enjoyed the books, they're a guilty pleasure for me. That doesn't change the fact that Twilight vamps shit on traditional vampire lore, more than it might be skewed or interpreted elsewhere. So you can get off your high horse and tell me not to "hate", because I'm not, and I wouldn't be surprised if at any point in time Ms. Meyer comes out and says that TwiVamps have souls, but until then, it's speculation in favor of, in my opinion.



I was just gonna write that but had to have dinner. They are not traditional vampires. And yes in the realm of fiction a mutation can make a humanoid clinically dead hard as stone and psychic abilities. Their enhanced state evolves them to these potentials.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by omgchos
Sigh....... u just totally took the bluntest view of what i just said. So what your saying is that these are genetic mutaions but 5 ppl in the world get them? Gee kind of sounds magical to me. And like i said no one seems to be just turning into vampires. Seems like the need to bite you before you become them.



Some mutants are vampires in appearance and ability.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
What argument? That the X-men aren't 100% mutants? No, that's pretty much just a wrong statement, and yes, I was messing with you for saying it because I'm sure you're not so stupid as to mean something like that literally.
I dint say THE x-men did i? (what i mean to say is i was refering to the x-men universe0And anyway the xmen wasnt always occupied exclusively by mutants. The Xmen universe is full of many different types of powers. Aliens, other-dimensional beings, Beings on higher plains of existance, etc. I mean look at the phoenix. She was some type of celestial entity that borrowed the image of Jean to some end.

And Ninjak...... in the realm of fiction i can shit fairy dust and make a rainbow come out of my nose..... the point isnt that it COULD be true. Were taking the facts as they are and arguing them. Just saying anything is possible in fiction doesnt change what happened in the movie.

Originally posted by omgchos
I dint say THE x-men did i? (what i mean to say is i was refering to the x-men universe0And anyway the xmen wasnt always occupied exclusively by mutants. The Xmen universe is full of many different types of powers. Aliens, other-dimensional beings, Beings on higher plains of existance, etc. I mean look at the phoenix. She was some type of celestial entity that borrowed the image of Jean to some end.

Of course not, chos, you didn't say the X-men at all...

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Umm...Marvel and the X-Men would like to have a word with you. Originally posted by omgchos
X-men is not 100% mutation and if it were true in twilight they wouldn't have been the only ones to get this. I mean the indians turn into wolves and the vamps bite people. Never in the movie did it say that there was anything else. Seems like if it was a mutation we would see some X-men stuff. Not just contagious vampires and skinwalkers.


The Marvel Universe is chock full of extraordinary or supernatural beings, of course, but if we are going by movies, which we should be, then the pheonix wasn't a celetial entity, it was just Jean's fractured psyche because she couldn't control her power properly.

This is getting off topic, and I've had my rants, so I'm willing to stop here, how about you? I really don't care about concessions or any of that crap, either, so take it however you need to, just as long as we stop derailing the thread.

You wrote that genetic mutations can't achieve the Twilight Vamps abilities and I responded that they in fact can.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Of course not, chos, you didn't say the X-men at all...




The Marvel Universe is chock full of extraordinary or supernatural beings, of course, but if we are going by movies, which we should be, then the pheonix wasn't a celetial entity, it was just Jean's fractured psyche because she couldn't control her power properly.

This is getting off topic, and I've had my rants, so I'm willing to stop here, how about you? I really don't care about concessions or any of that crap, either, so take it however you need to, just as long as we stop derailing the thread.
First off..... LOL.


Second...... We would go by the movie if the phoenix was somehow involved in the fight. As it is its just an example of the diversity in the marvel universe. But yeah lets cut this short. And agree to disagree. Im tired on ninjak neway. He takes to long to respond and his arguments are boring. Least i actually had to argue with you.

Good man. It was fun, I'll admit that. Now I'm off to bed so I'm not tempted to become even more delusional.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Good man. It was fun, I'll admit that. Now I'm off to bed so I'm not tempted to become even more delusional.
Good night. Don't let the vampires bite. And make sure take your welcome mat off..... or theyll come in. We've all seen The Lost Boys. Ull have no power over them. Unless ur grandpa shows up with a truck full of stakes.

Pleasant trolling.

lol

Im back......been typing......what's your beef with me anyway. My arguments are valid and practicly the same as Xanatos'. Until the woman who wrote the books states that her creations have no souls and isn't just some claim by the characters. I'm not accepting it.

Ur arguments werent the same. And i dont care if you accept it. And I dont have a beef with you. And this is a movie versus forum.

Im surprised RJ hasn't jumped on this. But anyway the look on Edwards face when he proposed to Bella.......souless people don't do that. As I've stated genetic mutations in fiction can achieve the TwiVamps powersets. Ill leave it there.

It wouldn't manifest in just vampires as Ive said. And on such an apparently small scale. Also they wouldnt have to bite you, because with mutations they would show up everywhere. And they wouldn't be immortal. And as ive said this is not a philosophy discussion. Have u ever watched the anime FMA? Cuz u can fakes emotions even without a soul. Even if he does have real emotions that doesnt imply a soul. Monkeys have emotions..... but the consensus is that they arent in the "soul" category. Unless your of the hindu culture where everything has a soul on some level. Again tho not philosophy.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Im surprised RJ hasn't jumped on this.

Hows that?

I don't see Star Wars or Harry Potter in this thread.

Originally posted by omgchos
. Even if he does have real emotions that doesnt imply a soul. Monkeys have emotions..... but the consensus is that they arent in the "soul" category. Unless your of the hindu culture where everything has a soul on some level. Again tho not philosophy.

Monkeys don't have souls?????

It's fairly accepted that once you die, your soul (considering the soul exist) leaves your body; I think we can all agree with this.

Question: Does a person have to die first, before they rise as a Twilight vampire?

If the answer is "yes", ergo, then they probably are soulless.

Also, the argument seems to be between Edward saying his kind don't and Bella believing they do. All things considered, siding with the person that is the Twilight vampire is more sensible than a naive 18 year old girl.

i dont think he should be using any novel reference for the soul.. missing a soul would negate a lot of emotions normally in various stories both in movies and in books.. the main one usually to go is love..

something i see the twivamps having although an immature childish puppy kind of love but its still there.

now all this speculation of them having or not having a soul is just speculation whether they are a vampire talking about it or bella.. not all the vamps agree and its just metaphysical discussion not a fact for either. i would peg them for having one due to their emotional behavior

Love, hate, anger etc have a lot to do with many vampire stories/films. So I don't think lacking a soul means there would be no emotions.

Either way, pretty sure the Twilight vampires are undead, they died human and then came back as a vampire. Leads me to believe they're soulless.

hate, anger tends to stay as other strong emotions like passion even when soulless in stories and other mediums. many of those emotions attributed to a lack of soul and unable to temper the emotions or its the demon's natural emotional state which posses the host body.

plus also in other stories they are nothing more then columns neither hate, happiness or any other emotions due to the emptiness and simply functioning off of old memories.

anyways remorse, guilt and regret, compassion seems to be a human soul trait in various stories and metaphysical arguments.

again i stick with them having a soul. plus the transformation in the movie seemed to be caused by a chemical (venom) in the saliva it seems more rooted in the physical world then the ethereal one...

I'm sticking with what Edward said, considering he's the vampire, he's somewhere around100 years old and he knows older vampires.

While Bella's a naive highschooler.

Also, the venom angle is kinda moot, as Bram Stroker's Dracula directly deals with vampirism being a 'blood infection', as said by Professor Abraham Van Helsing. The Twilight vampires still have to die first; then they're transformed. If I'm wrong on this 'death first' angle, I may change my mind.

bram stroker dracula drank blood from a bleeding cross which turned him into a vampire and cursed god and turned his back from him.. thats pretty metaphysical to me what happens after that is him passing on the curse once they consume human blood after he has bitten them.

a twivamp is no more an authority on his metaphysical existence as anyone else like a doctor, scientist, guru nor a country yokel..

u and i can talk about what it means to be alive it doesnt mean u or i are right.. we can talk about our physiology and say we know how it works b/c its our body that doesnt mean squat nor that we are right same holds for edward just b/c he is a vampire doesnt mean he knows what it is to be one or if he has a soul its just his opinion and assumption.

Originally posted by Robtard
Love, hate, anger etc have a lot to do with many vampire stories/films. So I don't think lacking a soul means there would be no emotions.

Either way, pretty sure the Twilight vampires are undead, they died human and then came back as a vampire. Leads me to believe they're soulless.


No, the vampires have souls. The writer was a Mormon.


That and the vampires argued the point. Carlisle doesn't believe that they don't have souls.


And, they are not dead: they are very much alive. They are an entirely different species after their vampiric rebirth (despite this, they can still reproduce with human females (males vamps to human females. And, the offspring has 24 chromosomes pairs). They have 25 chromosome pairs instead of 23. They have living cells...those cells just happen to be very very very sturdy compared to human cells.


Best we can come to is that they vampires go through a massive genetic change (true) and arguing on whether or not they have souls would occur before the change, not after. (Atheism versus any form of soul-containing theism, basically.)

Originally posted by Robtard
I'm sticking with what Edward said, considering he's the vampire, he's somewhere around100 years old and he knows older vampires.

While Bella's a naive highschooler.

Also, the venom angle is kinda moot, as Bram Stroker's Dracula directly deals with vampirism being a 'blood infection', as said by Professor Abraham Van Helsing. The Twilight vampires still have to die first; then they're transformed. If I'm wrong on this 'death first' angle, I may change my mind.

Oh, well, in that case, they definitely have souls, then. Carlisle is much older than Edward and he thinks they have souls.

Is it specifucally said so by the arthur, or are you interjecting her Mormonism to automatically mean she'd mean something?

Do the Twilight vampires die human first, or do they transform without dying?

Originally posted by Robtard
Is it specifucally said so by the arthur, or are you interjecting her Mormonism to automatically mean she'd mean something?

It's a joke. (But probably has truth.)

Originally posted by Robtard
Do the Twilight vampires die human first, or do they transform without dying?

It's never settled so it's semantics, at this point. Some, in the book, believe they have souls, some don't. Concluding either way is not accurate unless you conclude that they had souls before they turned into vamps.


The only evidence of "souls" are the spirit walkers: aka, the Native Americans of La Push. They, quite literally, have souls as they could step out of their bodies and "merge" with an animal's body. They called these typesl "spirit walkers". Later, they find out that they can make their bodies "shapeshift" into wolves, making them werewolves. They haven't been able to change into any other form, though.



My guess is that they have souls, if we assume that regular humans have souls, because vampires are not "undead" in the books, they are living creatures.


Originally posted by Robtard
Do the Twilight vampires die human first, or do they transform without dying?

They never die. Their physiology changes on a microscopic level and some of their organs change function or become useless.

It's something similar to what humans will be able to do with Gene doping/therapy, in the very near future. For real.

If they don't die first and they're not undead, then sure, they're basically humans affected with a genetical anonmally.

This is what I basically posed/asked in my first post, as I'm no Twilight expert.

Myers' creation is just further shit, imo.

Originally posted by Robtard
If they don't die first and they're not undead, then sure, they're basically humans affected with a genetical anonmally.

This is what I basically posed/asked in my first post, as I'm no Twilight expert.

Myers' creation is just further shit, imo.

Actually, her explanation is the best to date, imo.



Like I said, the stories are actually good. It's just...her prose suck major bawlz and she puts waaaaaaay over the top cheesy lines in her work. But just the stories' synposis are quite good.

And, Underworld vamps are bascially the same, when it comes to the change, as twivamps. They don't really die but they actually go through a physiological change.


On top of that, so are the Blade vamps.



It's just that their attributes are very much different with the twivamps being the most powerful out of all of those groups, by far.




Edit - Come to think of it, where ARE the classic undead vamps in modern literature/movies? I don't think I've run across the classic version of a vampire in popular cinema, in a while. Even Rice vamps aren't really undead but, instead, are possessed by an evil demon (a portion of it)

When then, Ghost Rider Penance Stares them and Edward is especially effected, for being a 100+ year old pedophile. /thread

Edit: Pretty sure dieing first and being reborn as a vamp is a part of Anne Rice vampire lore.

True Blood is this way too.

Originally posted by Robtard
When then, Ghost Rider Penance Stares them and Edward is especially effected, for being a 100+ year old pedophile. /thread

Edit: Pretty sure dieing first and being reborn as a vamp is a part of Anne Rice vampire lore.

True Blood is this way too.


DUH! lol That was basically my post way earlier in this thread.

Yes, but, are they actually dead? Do the retain any bit of consciousness? If they do, then they don't die. And, since the body physically changes and is still 'alive', then they aren't really dying. That's more of a metaphor than a literal death.

Must have missed it.

Been a long time since I've seen IWTV, but I'm pretty certain Louis describes it as death and then rebirth. I somewhat recall when they turn Kristen Dunst, you see her die and Louis says something about "last breaths" and we see her die, as the vampirism is killing her. RJ loves this movie because he has a man-crush on Brad Pitt, he might be able to recall the scenes better.

True Blood is for certain. The vampires have to kill their victim, bury them and then they're reborn undead the following night. There's also plenty of mention of them being "dead."

Originally posted by Robtard
True Blood is for certain. The vampires have to kill their victim, bury them and then they're reborn undead the following night. There's also plenty of mention of them being "dead."

I haven't seen one ep. of Tru-Blood. So, that's an example of the "non-scientific" vampire. Lately, it seems as if they want to make vampires and zombies they way they are due to something that can be explained by science, rather than something supernatural. That mostly what I was on about.



Edit - Yeah, second post of the thread. Said the vampires have no way to win and Scars followed up with the penance stair thing.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I haven't seen one ep. of Tru-Blood. So, that's an example of the "non-scientific" vampire. Lately, it seems as if they want to make vampires and zombies they way they are due to something that can be explained by science, rather than something supernatural. That mostly what I was on about.



shame on you sir for not watching true blood

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
shame on you sir for not watching true blood

Hey, man, I listened to your advice. I have it in my netflix queue...just waiting for it to roll around.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Hey, man, I listened to your advice. I have it in my netflix queue...just waiting for it to roll around.

cool, its a very good show, but this season so far could be better


back to the thread though, not sure, i think i have to rewatch ghost rider

Originally posted by dadudemon
Actually, her explanation is the best to date, imo.



Like I said, the stories are actually good. It's just...her prose suck major bawlz and she puts waaaaaaay over the top cheesy lines in her work. But just the stories' synposis are quite good.

And, Underworld vamps are bascially the same, when it comes to the change, as twivamps. They don't really die but they actually go through a physiological change.


On top of that, so are the Blade vamps.



It's just that their attributes are very much different with the twivamps being the most powerful out of all of those groups, by far.




Edit - Come to think of it, where ARE the classic undead vamps in modern literature/movies? I don't think I've run across the classic version of a vampire in popular cinema, in a while. Even Rice vamps aren't really undead but, instead, are possessed by an evil demon (a portion of it)


I suppose Dracula and his brides in the Van Helsing movie was the last to showcase classic vamps. Maybe 30 days of night.

Originally posted by Robtard
Must have missed it.

Been a long time since I've seen IWTV, but I'm pretty certain Louis describes it as death and then rebirth. I somewhat recall when they turn Kristen Dunst, you see her die and Louis says something about "last breaths" and we see her die, as the vampirism is killing her. RJ loves this movie because he has a man-crush on Brad Pitt, he might be able to recall the scenes better.

True Blood is for certain. The vampires have to kill their victim, bury them and then they're reborn undead the following night. There's also plenty of mention of them being "dead."


In Queen of the Damned, Marius tells Lestat to not fear..it is only the BODY that dies.

Originally posted by Robtard
Must have missed it.

Been a long time since I've seen IWTV, but I'm pretty certain Louis describes it as death and then rebirth. I somewhat recall when they turn Kristen Dunst, you see her die and Louis says something about "last breaths" and we see her die, as the vampirism is killing her. RJ loves this movie because he has a man-crush on Brad Pitt, he might be able to recall the scenes better.

True Blood is for certain. The vampires have to kill their victim, bury them and then they're reborn undead the following night. There's also plenty of mention of them being "dead."

The body dies and becomes a vampire, you douche rocket.

the 1st time they transform they can see the world differently then humans like the statues eye staring at him and cryin iirc... pretty supernatural to me..

Originally posted by King Castle
the 1st time they transform they can see the world differently then humans like the statues eye staring at him and cryin iirc... pretty supernatural to me..

You mean Anne Rice's Vampires. They are much closer to the Mythology. Twilight Vampires are a kind of mutation. Their strength, durability, reflexes and unique ESP abilities can all be results of insane genetic mutation.

Anne Rice's vampires all had unique abilities as well and saw all the crying statues and stuff.

Anne Rice's = Supernatural
Twilight's = Possibly not

Originally posted by the ninjak
You mean Anne Rice's Vampires. They are much closer to the Mythology. Twilight Vampires are a kind of mutation. Their strength, durability, reflexes and unique ESP abilities can all be results of insane genetic mutation.

Anne Rice's vampires all had unique abilities as well and saw all the crying statues and stuff.

Anne Rice's = Supernatural
Twilight's = Possibly not

This.


Anne Rice's vamps are, as fact, the way they are, due to an immensely powerful and evil spirit, possessing Akasha. Their powers come from that evil spirit. It doesn't get anymore metaphysical than that.



About the Meyer vamps: I bet 40 years from now we will look back and see how stupid it is that it only takes 2 more chromosomes to make the vampires change as much as they did. Well, 2 chromosomes worth of genetic data, of course. I think it would take much more than that to make a human turn into they way the vamps are in the Meyer's verse.

I wouldn't mind getting metaphysical with Akasha's bewbz.