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Who wins in sabers only? Vaapad vs the Master of Soresu? And yes Shatterpoint for Mace can be used. And if it's unfair then do a scenario without Shatterpoint.

I've seen Obi-Wan quite overrated on other forums but thankfully not as much here. But I want to know if he can take on Mace.

I'd put it down to Windu's knowledge of Soresu vs. Kenobi's lack of knowledge of Vaapad.

While Vaapad would still allow Mace to channel his own inner darkness and employ it in this battle (a trait which would normally give him a decisive edge), I can't say that I'm convinced he'd win. What it really comes down to for me is that I can't see Vaapad penetrating the defensive wall Obi-Wan's Soresu creates.

Mace himself even said that out of all living Jedi, Obi-Wan had the best chance at defeating General Grievous (saber to saber); moreso then even himself or Yoda -- and Mace should know. He had previously battled GG (unsuccessfully) during Labyrinth of Evil. Anyway, it wasn't until Grievous began his '20 saber strikes per second' that he even started to overwhelm Obi-Wan's defenses -- and even then Obi was able to counter (on the fly) by turning his nigh-impenetrable defense into a very solid and capable offense, of which he used to rapidly sever most of GG's appendages... (As I hinted at above, Mace didn't have the same type of luck in his battle with the General.)

So yeah, while this would probably be a very long and drawn out battle, I think Obi-Wan would ultimately come out on top... And I'm not even going to get into the "maybe's" associated with Shatterpoint, thus I didn't factor it into my decision.

At the least the winner would be wounded and possibly dying

^The Soresu defense thing, yea, it Obi-Wans only chance of survival

Originally posted by Galan007
While Vaapad would still allow Mace to channel his own inner darkness and employ it in this battle (a trait which would normally give him a decisive edge), I can't say that I'm convinced he'd win. What it really comes down to for me is that I can't see Vaapad penetrating the defensive wall Obi-Wan's Soresu creates.

I agree. Also, did vaapad not factor in the opponent's darkness, of which Obi-Wan had none so that would not help Mace he would just have to hope his own darkness is enough. Obi-Wan would win tho in the end as Mace would get tired as vaapad is energy consuming.

Originally posted by Galan007
While Vaapad would still allow Mace to channel his own inner darkness and employ it in this battle (a trait which would normally give him a decisive edge), I can't say that I'm convinced he'd win. What it really comes down to for me is that I can't see Vaapad penetrating the defensive wall Obi-Wan's Soresu creates.

Mace himself even said that out of all living Jedi, Obi-Wan had the best chance at defeating General Grievous (saber to saber); moreso then even himself or Yoda -- and Mace should know. He had previously battled GG (unsuccessfully) during Labyrinth of Evil. Anyway, it wasn't until Grievous began his '20 saber strikes per second' that he even started to overwhelm Obi-Wan's defenses -- and even then Obi was able to counter (on the fly) by turning his nigh-impenetrable defense into a very solid and capable offense, of which he used to rapidly sever most of GG's appendages... (As I hinted at above, Mace didn't have the same type of luck in his battle with the General.)

So yeah, while this would probably be a very long and drawn out battle, I think Obi-Wan would ultimately come out on top... And I'm not even going to get into the "maybe's" associated with Shatterpoint, thus I didn't factor it into my decision.


I see Kenobi holding Mace off for a little bit, but not nealry long enough to tire Mace out. Mace would overwhelm Kenobi in short order, if not in sabers, then in combination w/ his Force usage.

Mace will win.

Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
Mace will win.

...in other words.

Originally posted by Master_Galen
Obi-Wan would win tho in the end as Mace would get tired as vaapad is energy consuming. I doubt Mace would get that tired. Even in his battle with Palpatine, there was "not even the possibility of fatigue."

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
I see Kenobi holding Mace off for a little bit, but not nealry long enough to tire Mace out. Mace would overwhelm Kenobi in short order, if not in sabers, then in combination w/ his Force usage. What force usage? This is a 'sabers only' match.

Originally posted by Galan007
What force usage? This is a 'sabers only' match.

I see that now.

1 d0 n0t r3c0gn1z3 th3 d1st1nct10n 83tw33n ``sa83r`` 8attl3s and ``f0rc3`` 8attl3s.

Th3 v1ct0r 0f th1s 8attl3 1s cl3ar. Galan007,
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Que?

I don't think he even made 20 complete strikes in the movie at all. Unless we're talking about his helicopter technique.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah that's been brought up before. I think the main argument is that it's canon because it doesn't directly contradict the film. It's the same reason Palpatine and Mace moving at 'blur-esque' speeds in thier battle is generally regarded as canon. Could we see them moving that fast in the film? No. But does them moving at the aforementioned speeds in the novel directly contradict the film? No.

I dunno. srug
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Originally posted by Galan007
This typing style makes me want to have a seizure and possibly shit myself. Interesting.




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Originally posted by Galan007
I don't need to find more evidence, actually. It's your turn to provide evidence pertaining to how Mace would win (if that is, in fact, your opinion.)
Actually, you do need to find more evidence. During his fight with Grievous, Kenobi fought incredibly. According to the novelization, he matched Grievous up to twenty strikes per second. During the film, he shows a remarkable awareness of his surroundings and the ability to use the arena to his advantage. However, as the novelization shows, Kenobi wasn't doing this on his own.

At one point, the narrator notes that his opponent "is beyond him." Kenobi wasn't outdueling Grievous with skills, but rather with the Force. The fight on Utapau is, in fact, one of the most notable examples of Jedi 'one-with-the-Force'ness in the mythos. (The only person that surpasses this showing is Jacen, in a state that "will never be replicated." For all the splendor of this feat, it doesn't speak to Kenobi's actual technical skill. His most impressive showing, then, doesn't apply to this scenario. (Even if we were allowing the Force in this match, you'd have a hard time proving that it is replicable.)


The evidence you've brought to the table simply doesn't apply to this thread; the fight with Grievous is just as much a Force feat as it is a lightsaber feat.

I refuse to argue under artificial constraints:

Amend the parameters to "Windu Vs. Kenobi" and I'll be interested. I simply don't know how to argue this particular question, since I don't know what a Jedi fighting without the Force looks like, especially these two Jedi.




That's exactly what you're doing. Mace is fighting Obi-Wan, not Grievous. There are a lot of different factors the contribute to the outcome of a fight, and deciding based on this one factoid ignores a lot of them.

Sure I'll change it then.

1. Sabers
2. Force
3. All Out

Originally posted by Galan007
Concession accepted.

dgrin
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Niggur wins. Flawless victory.

Nemesis, whats up with the weird posting style now? I can't even make myself read it. It isn't very easy on the eyes.

Originally posted by Galan007
Concession accepted.

dgrin

Don't do this. if the person hasn't actually conceded, it makes it appear as though your reading comprehension is poor. (like gideon, in this particular aspect, his reading comprehension is often poor.)

Originally posted by truejedi
Don't do this. if the person hasn't actually conceded, it makes it appear as though your reading comprehension is poor. (like gideon, in this particular aspect, his reading comprehension is often poor.)

Lots of people do that. Its annoying.

Visit the comic books forum...

Yeah Mace wins the pretty solidly, sure Kenobi will prolong the duel but it simply won't be enough.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
I see Kenobi holding Mace off for a little bit, but not nealry long enough to tire Mace out. Mace would overwhelm Kenobi in short order, if not in sabers, then in combination w/ his Force usage.

See, I was prophesying the amendment to the parameters of this battle. Mace Windu wins.

TJ
(like gideon, in this particular aspect, his reading comprehension is often poor.)

I'm not sure what we're arguing about, but I accept your concession.

Originally posted by truejedi
Don't do this. if the person hasn't actually conceded, it makes it appear as though your reading comprehension is poor. (like gideon, in this particular aspect, his reading comprehension is often poor.) Eh, I was joking (hence the smilie.) Truth be told, I didn't want to continue an extended debate with RN. His typing makes me want to hit something. ermmnone

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Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
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Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
I+ i5 4 r@TH3r R0ugH DI5pL@y 0F TyPinG aB1l1+Y, 15 1T n0+?

Well I did change the original question to sabers, force and all out. <__<

Mace.
Kenobi.
Mace.

When Mace is permitted to use the force offensively, he's going to win. But I feel that Obi would take the sabers only match, for reasons I mentioned earlier. Just my opinion.

tj is rex's deputy?!

I think he prefers "b*tch".

I am definitly Rex's B****. And you are just jealous.

Mace Destroys Obiwan

Mace defeated Sidious, something Obiwan couldn`t do if he lived to Yoda`s age. Dooku, who is likely below Mace, easily removed Obiwan from the fight in Episode III. Obiwan is simply a bit overrated because he disposed of Grievous and his limb-removing fight with Anakin (who not close to Mace either at that point).

I actually think Mace may have more raw power than even Yoda or Palps. In episode 2 Anakin says something like "Obiwan (..) is as Wise as Yoda and as Powerful as Windu" An exaggeration obviously but this would seem to indicate that Mace may be regarded as more powerful than Yoda in some ways. Defeating Palpatine would seem to support that.. Yoda after all could not do the same.

Originally posted by Mshinu
Mace Destroys Obiwan

Obiwan is simply a bit overrated because he disposed of Grievous and his limb-removing fight with Anakin (who not close to Mace either at that point).
I agree with this. After this, it gets...odd...

Originally posted by Letum Lettow
I agree with this. After this, it gets...odd...

How so?

Originally posted by Mshinu
In episode 2 Anakin says something like "Obiwan (..) is as Wise as Yoda and as Powerful as Windu" An exaggeration obviously but this would seem to indicate that Mace may be regarded as more powerful than Yoda in some ways. Defeating Palpatine would seem to support that.. Yoda after all could not do the same. Mace had Vaapad and Shatterpoint, soemthing Yoda does not.

Anakin can spout whatever bullshit he wants, that doesn't make it true. The premise of his sentence is already a very skewed opinion (Obi-Wan is NOT as wise as Yoda or as powerful as Windu). And taken in to appropriate context, he could easily have been referring to Mace's brute strength in the Force and overbearing fighting style. "Powerful" can mean a number of different things.

AthenasTrgrFngr
tj is rex's deputy?!
Explain.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
None of what you said is any indicator of Yoda and Mace's respective powers in relation to each other.

Mace's Vaapad and Shatterpoint won him that duel. If he didn't have them, he would have been f*cked. Especially without Vaapad. Even that wasn't enough to stop Palpatine's Lightning from forcing his blade so close to his face that he was "choking on ozone". If I recall right, Yoda took said Lightning in his hands like a champ and exploded it in Palpatine's face.

But hey, good for Mace though.

The fact remains Mace beat Sidious and Sidious came out on top over Yoda.

Yea, take away Mace`s style and abilities and he`d loose. Take away Yoda`s or Sidious` style and abilities and they will loose a fight too. What`s the point? Take Dooku for example, he is not a dangerous opponent just because he uses Makashi, he is so because he is a master with it. Vaapad has limits just like anything else.

Seems to me that explosion hit Yoda as much as it did Sidious, perhaps even more. It certainly also resulted in Yoda being unable to fulfill his goal. Not to mention Sidious could have fried Yoda like an egg when he was knocked out from the initial attack. All in all Yoda was not very sucessful in fending off Sids` force abilities.

Yoda, Sids and Mace are obviously close. However the actual fights in the movies would actually suggest that Mace > Sidious > Yoda.

Anyway.. they all beat the crap out of Obiwan.

Originally posted by Mshinu
Yoda, Sids and Mace are obviously close. However the actual fights in the movies would actually suggest that Mace > Sidious > Yoda. This, and most of everything else you said, is an example of A>B>C logic. I assume you don't know of it.


A beats B.
B beats C.
Therefore A beats C (or in this case, "is more powerful" than C).


Terrible logic. Especially when variables and factors (such as the existence and use of Vaapad and Shatterpoint) are applied.

EDIT: Yeah, I forgot to edit this in.

Originally posted by Mshinu
Seems to me that explosion hit Yoda as much as it did Sidious, perhaps even more.Seems to me it did too.

Originally posted by Mshinu
It certainly also resulted in Yoda being unable to fulfill his goal.Sidious faking weakness in his Force-contest with Windu was rather convienet for him (Windu). If Sidious had contiued (and he could have), then that would have resulted in Windu being unable to fulfill his goal.

Originally posted by Mshinu
Not to mention Sidious could have fried Yoda like an egg when he was knocked out from the initial attack.PIS, and irrelevant here.

Originally posted by Mshinu
All in all Yoda was not very sucessful in fending off Sids` force abilities. Neither was Windu.

Vaapad factored in, Sidious is beneath Yoda and Windu in saber skills.
Vaapad factored in, Sidious is above Yoda and Windu in the Force.

If I were a meaner person, I'd throw the words "suck it" in there somewhere, but as I'm not...

What do you mean Windu was unsucessful, he overpowered Sidious before he Anakin arrived and he pretended to be weak. The commentary says so clearly. Also Windu was able to hold on to his lightsaber in face of the force lightning, unlike Yoda.

I`d say Yoda being knocked out by Palpatine for a minute is pretty relevant.

As for saber skills vs the force it is hard to distinguish this because they all USE the force in saber duels. Sidius was able to match Yoda`s blade, not so much with Mace.

ABC logic works to a certain extent here because they have very similar powers.

I see you could not resist putting "suck it" in your post anyway. Beware of the dark side my friend.

Originally posted by Mshinu
What do you mean Windu was unsucessful, he overpowered Sidious before he Anakin arrived and he pretended to be weak. The commentary says so clearly. Also Windu was able to hold on to his lightsaber in face of the force lightning, unlike Yoda. Mace overpowered Sidious in the saber contest thanks to Vaapad. The Force contest though, with Sidious feigning weakness to tempt Anakin... was fake. If Sidious had held out longer, Mace's lightsaber would have started carving in to his face. Mace did not have the Force reserves Palpatine had to combat his Lightning. Yoda did. He even deflected it back at him, though it cost him his own reserves to do so, thus his retreat.

Originally posted by Mshinu
I`d say Yoda being knocked out by Palpatine for a minute is pretty relevant.If I sucker punched you, would you call it fair, or timely?

Originally posted by Mshinu
As for saber skills vs the force it is hard to distinguish this because they all USE the force in saber duels. Sidius was able to match Yoda`s blade, not so much with Mace. Again, there is a REASON for that. The novelization is quite clear that up until Mace had fully submerged in to Vaapad, that Palpatine had the upper hand. In Sidious and Yoda's duel, YODA had the upper hand until either A.) he disarmed Sidious, or B.) decided to f*ck off from the saber duel for some reason as per the script's implication.

Originally posted by Mshinu
ABC logic works to a certain extent here because they have very similar powers.No, it doesn't. It rarely works anywhere here. Keep bringing it up and let's see how fast the others start on you.

Originally posted by Mshinu
I see you could not resist putting "suck it" in your post anyway. Beware of the dark side my friend. I'm not your friend, guy.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
If I sucker punched you, would you call it fair, or timely?

Because threatening someone, slowly raising your hands to strike and in all manner possible announce you are going to attack is in fact; a sucker punch eh?



The movie thrumps lesser canon. It takes Mace just a few seconds to man up to Palps` attack and after this he is clearly holding an edge. In fact Sids seems to have an easier time with Yoda. Who was unable to land a boot to the head btw.

Unless i am mistaken, Yoda does even realize Sidious is a better warrior in the novel. And why should he not? He did loose after all.



Scary. I maintain it works to a certain extent.
Also, seems to me many use it that way here.

No, ABC arguments rarely work (maybe in DBZ, but not Star Wars). When A beats B, A will have more of an advantage, but only after you've examined how A beat B and if this will have the same effect on C. It is important to know that B isn't the same as C.

It's a rock-paper-scissors thing. Because Anakin beat Dooku, and Dooku beat Obi-Wan. Does this mean Anakin will win against Obi-Wan? No, this didn't happen because Obi-Wan isn't Dooku.

There are also a lot of examples of foughts that were won by the less powerful combatant. Like Obi vs Maul or Luke vs Vader.

Yea, but how about this. Yoda is superior to Dooku in every way. Dooku handles Obiwan easily. This should mean Yoda would have no serious trouble with Obiwan.

Obiwan beating Maul is PIS/luck.
Luke beating Vader in any other situation is extremely unlikely.

Originally posted by Mshinu
Because threatening someone, slowly raising your hands to strike and in all manner possible announce you are going to attack is in fact; a sucker punch eh? And pooling in your palms and reflecting that exact same attack is the same thing? Or is there an air of combat missing in the ante-chamber?



Originally posted by Mshinu
The movie thrumps lesser canon.Yes, it does.


Originally posted by Mshinu
It takes Mace just a few seconds to man up to Palps` attack and after this he is clearly holding an edge. In fact Sids seems to have an easier time with Yoda. Who was unable to land a boot to the head btw.Sidious did have an "easier" time, per se, with Yoda. Mace's Vaapad allowed him to feed off Palpatine's own darkness. But that does not mean Mace is more powerful than Yoda. This is A>B>C at its finest. And it's faulty.

Originally posted by Mshinu
Unless i am mistaken, Yoda does even realize Sidious is a better warrior in the novel. I don't think the word "warrior" is used, but he admits that he had lost the fight. Now whether that means he would have lost the lightsaber fight is not clear. It's highly unlikely though, considering how well he was doing against Palpatine in the film (there's no real description of the fight in the novel).




Originally posted by Mshinu
Scary. I maintain it works to a certain extent.
Also, seems to me many use it that way here. Yeah, they're the people that get bashed. It's alright to use in a strictly quantitative approach, but all the lightsaber fights and Force feats... they can't be measured with an easy, "this over this, so this over that."

Originally posted by Mshinu
Yea, but how about this. Yoda is superior to Dooku in every way. Dooku handles Obiwan easily. This should mean Yoda would have no serious trouble with Obiwan.


It's a factor, Dooku disposed of Obi-Wan through the Force because he couldn't get through his lightsaber defenses. There is a lot more proof than just that fact that gives Yoda a clear advantage against Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
It's a factor, Dooku disposed of Obi-Wan through the Force because he couldn't get through his lightsaber defenses. There is a lot more proof than just that fact that gives Yoda a clear advantage against Obi-Wan.

Of course, but it works as a limited model. Unless Obiwan has some special advantage over Yoda anyway.

Originally posted by Mshinu
Of course, but it works as a limited model. Unless Obiwan has some special advantage over Yoda anyway. He has Soresu. In a strict lightsaber duel, Obi-Wan would be difficult to kill no matter his opponent. That's why of any Jedi alive, Mace considered him to be best suited the job of killing Grievous.

Sidous was disarmed by both Yoda and Mace.

Sidious faked weakness against Mace when using the force, he did no such thing against Yoda.

Mace overcame Sidious's faked weakness, Yoda stalemated Sidious's full strength.

Mace was left in a position to do damage because Sidious was faking. Yoda failed to be in a position to damage because he was closer to the edge of a pod than Sidious was.

If the screenplay of the fight is to be believed, Yoda held Sidious's life in his hands during the cutaway scene to Mustafar, and made either a tactical error, or an error in judgement. this is exactly akin to Sidious letting Yoda get up after frying him with lightning, so that PIS cancels itself out.

"One ill PIS deserves another."

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Sidious did have an "easier" time, per se, with Yoda. Mace's Vaapad allowed him to feed off Palpatine's own darkness. But that does not mean Mace is more powerful than Yoda. This is A>B>C at its finest. And it's faulty.

So where would you put Mace in respect to force potential? Does beating Sidious narrowly with the advantage of vaapad put him lower than Sids/Yoda?
Owerwhelming Palpatine is no small thing no matter what style you use or advantages thereof. What if Yoda managed to capitalize on lightning absorption and beat Sidious, would that not be a HUGE feather in his cap?




Why would you say Yoda did "so well" against Sidious in the movie? They seem pretty equal to me until they for some reason, not shown in the film, are separated.

Originally posted by Mshinu
So where would you put Mace in respect to force potential? Does beating Sidious narrowly with the advantage of vaapad put him lower than Sids/Yoda? Ah, careful with the word "potential". I think you mean "prowess".

Originally posted by Mshinu
Owerwhelming Palpatine is no small thing no matter what style you use or advantages thereof. What if Yoda managed to capitalize on lightning absorption and beat Sidious, would that not be a HUGE feather in his cap?Yes it would, but it's not an indication of raw power or potential power. I don't want to use the word "technicality", but I haven't slept in a while so I will. Mace's use of Vaapad utilizes his own, and his opponent's inner darkness to his (Mace's) advantage. If Yoda could have done the same... boy howdy.


It'd be like me saying Vegeta had the highest chi level in Dragonball just because he can reflect any attack that comes at him. He doesn't. It's a very... very useful ability, but that doesn't make him "the most powerful" or "more powerful" than anyone else. Mace's Vaapad is a marvelous trick that requires his opponent to contribute one half of its effectiveness. Yoda doesn't have that, or need that to disarm Sidious.




Originally posted by Mshinu
Why would you say Yoda did "so well" against Sidious in the movie? They seem pretty equal to me until they for some reason, not shown in the film, are separated. Gideon has a copy of the script that states Yoda literally backed away when he held the advantage. PIS. But up until he and Palpatine started Force-duelling each other, Yoda was dominating the saber duel.

Without Vaapad.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Ah, careful with the word "potential". I think you mean "prowess".


No, I was actually thinking raw force strength, midi-clorian count or whatever it is called.



But Yoda uses another style (Aratu or whatever) that has its own benefits. Why do you asume Vaapad would be better for Yoda? Especially since his size and age might be more benefited by style IV?



But with Aratu.
Anyway doesn`t that script seem a bit contadictonary to how the movie turned out? I can`t really see any of them holding an advantage during the saber fight.

Originally posted by Mshinu
No, I was actually thinking raw force strength, midi-clorian count or whatever it is called.Then Yoda wins.



Originally posted by Mshinu
But Yoda uses another style (Aratu or whatever) that has its own benefits. Why do you asume Vaapad would be better for Yoda? Especially since his size and age might be more benefited by style IV?...

He wouldn't. I was hypothesizing that if Yoda could use his own "inner darkness" and Palpatine's to augment his own natural strength, then holy f*ck.



Originally posted by Mshinu
But with Aratu.
Anyway doesn`t that script seem a bit contadictonary to how the movie turned out? I can`t really see any of them holding an advantage during the saber fight. I'm sure you can't. But the movie's scenes have Yoda holding his own and frustrating Palpatine to quite a degree. In the in-between off-camera scenes, Yoda either disarms Palpatine, or Palpatine retreats to higher ground to make use of his command of the Force. Either way suggests that Palpatine doesn't wanna be near Yoda's blade.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
He wouldn't. I was hypothesizing that if Yoda could use his own "inner darkness" and Palpatine's to augment his own natural strength, then holy f*ck.
He wouldn`t what? Are you saying Vaapad would be better for Yoda?



Holding his own and fustratin Palps, yes. So basically equal. Getting some distance turned out quite well for the Sith lord.

Originally posted by Mshinu
He wouldn`t what? Are you saying Vaapad would be better for Yoda?I was slackjawed there for a moment, but I composed myself. Now let me see, where did I put... ah yes.

facepalm



Originally posted by Mshinu
Holding his own and fustratin Palps, yes. So basically equal. Getting some distance turned out quite well for the Sith lord. Indeed.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I was slackjawed there for a moment, but I composed myself. Now let me see, where did I put... ah yes.

facepalm

Indeed.



I think you are seeing Vaapad as a magic bullet. It is not.

Vaapad is the deadliest form. It utilizes one's own darkness, as well as the opponents darkness, which Sidious has a lot of in comparison to Yoda.

Nothing, however, trumps the novel in which Yoda is called "the most powerful foe the darkness had ever known" AFTER Sidious had already fought Mace.

Originally posted by Mshinu
Sidius was able to match Yoda`s blade, not so much with Mace.

Sidious did not match Yoda's saber skills. According to the script, Sidious was disarmed by Yoda during their saber contest. Just needed to interject there.

Originally posted by truejedi
If the screenplay of the fight is to be believed, Yoda held Sidious's life in his hands during the cutaway scene to Mustafar, and made either a tactical error, or an error in judgement. this is exactly akin to Sidious letting Yoda get up after frying him with lightning, so that PIS cancels itself out.

It is canon.

i knows it.

Originally posted by truejedi
i knows it.

I know you know. I was just sayin'.

TJ
so that PIS cancels itself out.

mace windu was a high jedi master when kenobi was still a padawan, so he has much more experience. in revenge of the sith yoda said kenobi will never be powerful enough to defeat sidious, but windu defeated sidious.

Originally posted by Oppo Rancisis
mace windu was a high jedi master when kenobi was still a padawan, so he has much more experience. in revenge of the sith yoda said kenobi will never be powerful enough to defeat sidious, but windu defeated sidious.

Bad idea... going there... not good.

"He would never have the power to beat Sidious."


I remember those exact words in the movie.

"strong enough to face Sidious, You will never be."

Where in the movie?

right after Yoda said: "But apart, a chance we may create" and Kenobi said "Let me face sidious, I can't kill Anakin, I can't." And Yoda said: "Strong enough to face Sidious you will never be. A jedi you are. You will do what you must."

I said the movie.

Isn't that from the movie? no joke. I thought I was quoting the movie. I'll find it on youtube.

"Strong enough to face Lord Sidious, you are not."

"And never will be."

"Because he's a lot better than the Joker."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt4G6RPrO64

Yeah, 1:14. Gideon got it. It is "Are not."

In ROTS novel, Pg. 379 Yoda says:

"Strong enough to face Lord Sidious, you will never be. Die you will, and painfully."

I got the two confused.

What about the Joker part?

that might have been a paraphrase of something... I didn't find that exact phrase in my study of it...

...

This is my apprentice, Darth MaulLucien. He will find your lost shipquote.

Originally posted by Gideon
"Because he's a lot better than the Joker."

bangin

S
bangin

Palpatine would annihilate the Joker in a battle of anything. Does this upset you?

haermm

Except for acting or stage-presence.

Or if Joker becomes omnipotent again.

N
Except for acting or stage-presence.

no

Jealous much? When has Palpatine become nigh omnipotent?

Since he got in to the sugar again.

The Joker does have way more stage presence than Palpatine can ever dream off. Who remembers that old wrinkly guy from Star Wars anyways.




Except you.

You know who you are.

Yes you.

S
The Joker does have way more stage presence than Palpatine can ever dream off. Who remembers that old wrinkly guy from Star Wars anyways.




Except you.

You know who you are.

Yes you.

So is that a... yes?

Originally posted by Gideon
So is that a... yes?

Yes, the Joker has more stage presence.

So, what you're saying is, you hate America.

I know I do.

Me too. Well, I like McDonalds though, and Coca-Cola.

and DE, I know you do. And you called me a bigot.

I'm pretty sure that was Lucius. What do I think you're bigotted over?

See:

Originally posted by Lucius
One of these days one of you worthless backwards primitives (DS and TJ) will have to provide a solid non religious reason as to why gay marriage should be illegal.

I'll retract TJ from that (not DS though.)

Gideon
So, what you're saying is, you hate America.
don't copy blax

The moment you stop trying to be me.

You owe me $4.

oops. sorry DE. You both changed Avvies at the same time...

Despite our many many disagreements, I like you a lot and miss your Qui-Gon Jinn avatar not even a little.

Hug?

i'm honestly not sure what brought that on. but I like it and it turns me on. i'll go you one better than a hug in fact.

There is so much anger and arrogance and breach of etiquette and angst in the BattleBar. I need a warm heart with which to set on fireilluminate for those poor souls the path to enlightenment and humility and power.

Edit: Oh. Oh yes.

I just want us all to get along and stop arguing about the joker and sidious.

In this case, leave poor Gideon alone. This is like calling someone's wife ugly. He has NO CHOICE but to defend her.

Remember when we all just screamed at each other about politics? that was only 6 or 8 months ago i think...

Originally posted by Eminence
There is so much anger and arrogance and breach of etiquette and angst in the BattleBar. I need a warm heart with which to set on fireilluminate for those poor souls the path to enlightenment and humility and power.


I really didn't notice that much of what you said... It may have something to do with the name change though, it'd piss anyone off for sure.

Explain.

drunk?

always