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Dc Cosmology is pretty jacked up right now.

What is the current state of affairs?


Lets see if we can get a nice chart going.


Tier 0 (Supreme)


Tier 1 (Multiversal)
Top:
Mid:
Low:

Tier 2 (Universal / Abstract)
Top:
Mid:
Low:

Tier 3 (Entity)
Top:
Mid:
Low:

Tier 4 (Skyfather)
Top:
Mid:
Low:

This is probably off, but just to get the thread going.
------------------------------------------------------------

Tier 0 (Supreme)
Presence, Great Evil Beast, Elaine

Tier 1 (Multiversal)
Top: Mr Mxy, Ultimator, A, Lucifer, Mandrakk I, Cosmic Armor, Michael, Krona (crossover), The Word
Mid: The Source, All Endless members (combined)
Low: Classic ION, Zero Hour Parallax

Tier 2 (Universal / Abstract)
Top: Imperiex Prime
Mid: Nekron, Mandrakk II, True Darkseid
Low: Kismet, Dominus, Godwave

Tier 3 (Entity)
Top: Superman Prime, Monarch
Mid: Mageddon, King of Tears
Low: Classic Trigon the Terrible, The Monitor

Tier 4 (Skyfather)
Top: Zeus, Queen of Fables
Mid: Circe
Low: ?

Doesnt look bad

Back when I made a list a while back it went like this:

Tier 0- Unquantifiable/Meta-Being
-Primal Monitor (the reader/writer)

Tier 1- Supreme Being
-The Presence

Tier 2-Nigh Omnipotent
-Great Evil Beast
-Elaine
-Cosmic Armor Superman
-Mandrakk (Novu)
-Monitors (True Potential)

Tier 3-Omniversal Abstract
-Full Power Mxyzptlk (WF)
-Ultimator
-Full Power Spectre
-Lucifer Morningstar/Michael Demiurgos
-The Word
-God-Thing

Tier 4-High End Abstract
-The Source
-The Endless
-Emperor Joker

Tier 5-Mid Abstract
-Mandrakk (Ogama)
-Nekron
-5D Imps (sans Mxy and Batmite)
-Full Power Anti-Monitor
-Darkseid (True Spiritual Form)
-Maggedon
-Life Entity
-Krona (JLA/Avengers)

Tier 6- Low Abstracts
-Spectre (High Showings)
-King of Tears (Inside of his Realm)
-Hell Lords Inside of their Realms
-New Gods (true manifestations)
-Imperiex
-Ion (Original)
-Parallax (ZH)
-Lords of Chaos and Order (as a whole)
-Superman Prime (Implied power)
-Ares with Godwave
-Monitor (COIE)

Tier 7- Semi-Abstracts
-Spectre (Average non-jobbing)
-Captain Marvel (DOV)
-Quintessence (Combined power)
-Gog
-Yuga Khan
-Monarch (Post Arena)
-Neron (outside of Realm)
-Trigon (Classic, outside of his realm)
-Superman One Million
-SCW Anti-Monitor

Hmm..? Why did you place Mageddon higher than Imperiex Prime?

Darkseid isn't nearly that good.

1.) Beings/Forces who are beyond any creation (Beings that even Hypertime does apply to):
The Presence/The Overseers/The Primal Monitor

The Source/Carnivore with Presence's power/Gyges and Garamas/Ultimate Light/Ultimate Darkness (Ultimate Darkness and Ultimate Light are the balance of the Presence)/The Voice/The Unnameable One, Elaine Belloc, Mandrakk (original), CA Superman, Lucifer Morningstar, Michael Demiurgos.


2.) Hypertime abstract Beings/Forces (beings that could affect the whole Hypertimeline):
Hyperman (theoretically), Mr. Mxyzptlk, Bat-Mite, The Decreator, The Adjudicator.


3.) Multiversal abstract beings/forces (beings that could affect the Multiverse):
Una, the Worm of Heaven and Hell/Ea/Mallo Keeper of the Cosmic Balance/The Sword of Destiny/The Word/The Void/Anti-Monitor (COIE)/Entropy or Krona at full potential, The Godwave, The Ultimator, The Abyss, Emperor Joker, Mandrakk II, FC Darkseid, Synaar the Demiurge.


4.) Universal abstract beings/fundamental forces who embody a universe (Beings that could affect a single universe):
God Swamp Thing/Spectre/Kismet or Eternity/ Krona (Trinity)/Death/Infinity (The Timestream)/Oblivion (Nothingness)/Angor/Entropy (End of Time after everything dies)/Maltusian Gods/The Moraiei/Three Witches/Destiny/Dream/Darksome/Yk'Kphat/the Antechamber of Souls/The Great Tree/The Abyss (Pre-Boot Dial H For Hero Villain)/Omega Attractor/The Oracle Entity/Maaldor/Ningal/The Aleph/Order/Chaos/Willow and her husband as one (one with the universe)/OA/Quantum Field/Azarath/Astro-Force/Omega Effect/Alpha Energy/Zero Hour Parallax (full power)/Ion (classic)/Sunbust energy/The Shadowlands/Cosmic Lotus/Nebula Man/Imperiex Prime

The Concentrator/The Primal Atom/The Sun-Stone/Genesis Box/Worlogog wielder/Damage (Big Bang)/Anti-Matter Cannon/The Master Blaster


5.) Abstract Concepts/physical body and manifestations of the Presence:
Destruction/The Decay ancient force/Anomaly (also known as Fires of Creation itself)/Desire/Despair/Dellirium/The Union/Dark Lords of the Ultra-Realm (War, Chaos, Madness, Hate, Death, Greed and Rage), Light Lords of the Ultra-Realm (Peace, Grace, Enlightenment, Love, Order, Life and Bliss)/Rama Kushna/Meshta/Wally the God Boy/Godhead


6.) Physical body and manifestations of abstract concepts:
Black Racer/Black Flash/Nekron/The Ecruos/Anti-Life Entity/Eon (full power)/Decay II/Tiamat


7.) Godlike Metahumans/1st class Metaphysicals, Semi-Abstract, God-Like beings, race, Demons, Angels/Metaphysicals that could potentially affect the universe:
The Monitors (race)/Hamilton Benedict/Gemini Entity/Alexander Luthor/Gemworld Dimension (currently Amethyst's spirit)/Jonathan Kent/Progenitor (Element Lad reaching his full potential and becoming God of a galaxy)/Progenitor and Omnipagues (merged as one being)/The Promethian Giants/The Quantum Mechanics/The Anti-Matter Man (Pre-Boot), Monarch.

Ramiel/Duma/Sandalphon/Archangel Amendaniel/Lord of Order (Shatru, St'ann, Terataya, Ynar, J'akk, Nabu the Wise, Patagones, Amethyst)/Lord of Chaos (Child, Gorrum, Hytuurnus, m'Shulla, Shivering Jemmy, The Weaver, T'Charr,The Shallow Brigade and the Laughing Dancers,The five original Lords of Chaos,Typhon, Vandaemon, Zanadu)/The Unity/Shattered God/SHAZAM's Elder Gods (Marzosh, Arel, Ribalvei, Voldar, Elbiam, Lumium)/S'ivaa The Destroyer/The Shadow Elements race/The Three Demons - Rath, Ghast, Abnegazar/Clockwerx/Trigon (in his dimension)/Krona/Bedlam/Dominus/Jakeem Thunder/Johnny Thunder/30th Century or present Mordru/The Great Darkness Saga Darkseid/Doctor Manhattan/Satan/Spear of Destiny/Azmodus (like the Spectre varies)/Shaitan/Shathan/Ultimate Man (fully evolved)/Ganthet possessed by Parallax/Superman Prime/Wonder Woman channeling the Godwave/Starbreaker/Yuga Khan/Brainiac 13/Fenris the Devourer/Omniphagues/Overmaster/Epoch/Vyronis/Preacherverse God/King of Tears/The Devil/Corinthian/The First of the Fallen/Saint of Killer/Angel of Death/Time Trapper I (Rokk Krinn)/Time Trapper II (Lori Morning?)/Glorith/Infinite Man/Timeless Ones/The Time Beast/Kulak/Eclipso (depowered and became Heart of Darkness)/Abraxis/Dr. Destiny/The Agents/Dark Angel/Zatanna and Adam (Godhead)/Agent If and the Realtor/The Carnivore (pre-God)/Cykroth/The Evil One/Maggedon/Alien Ator of the Timeless Place/Primordial Old Gods of Chaos/The Lords of Light/Nether-World Gods/Satan (Phantom Stranger issue pre-boot)/Willie Wisher/Father Time/Captain Skull/Cocoon of the Undying Ones.

---

Some of the character placements are based on statements and/or implied power, but most of them are feat based. Also note that the characters were placed in their respective tiers in no particular order (ie. Mallo being listed before Emperor Joker in the Multiversal tier doesn't mean Mallo is more powerful.)

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Dc Cosmology is pretty jacked up right now.

What is the current state of affairs?


Lets see if we can get a nice chart going.


Tier 0 (Supreme)


Tier 1 (Multiversal)
Top:
Mid:
Low:

Tier 2 (Universal / Abstract)
Top:
Mid:
Low:

Tier 3 (Entity)
Top:
Mid:
Low:

Tier 4 (Skyfather)
Top:
Mid:
Low:

takeing into account the things parallax and ion were able to do and im sure were gonna see whats up with Ophindin soon but were would these entities actually be placed?

probably a stupid question but i was just curious since they seem like gods would they fall under entity?

Where would you put the ALE Galan?

The actual Equation? Universal.

I just noticed that I'm registered the 25th June 2006 and Galan the 25th July 2006. Odd coincidence.

Either way. The problem is that different titles under the publisher might interpret--or in worst case apply--the cosmological setting differently. Some authors might point to the biblical god as the highest cosmological authority, others don't.

Though in terms of abilities Galan's list is spot-on.

Originally posted by Galan007
1.) Beings/Forces who are beyond any creation (Beings that even Hypertime does apply to):
The Presence/The Overseers/The Primal Monitor

The Source/Carnivore with Presence's power/Gyges and Garamas/Ultimate Light/Ultimate Darkness (Ultimate Darkness and Ultimate Light are the balance of the Presence)/The Voice/The Unnameable One, Elaine Belloc, Mandrakk (original), CA Superman, Lucifer Morningstar, Michael Demiurgos.


2.) Hypertime abstract Beings/Forces (beings that could affect the whole Hypertimeline):
Hyperman (theoretically), Mr. Mxyzptlk, Bat-Mite, The Decreator, The Adjudicator.


3.) Multiversal abstract beings/forces (beings that could affect the Multiverse):
Una, the Worm of Heaven and Hell/Ea/Mallo Keeper of the Cosmic Balance/The Sword of Destiny/The Word/The Void/Anti-Monitor (COIE)/Entropy or Krona at full potential, The Godwave, The Ultimator, The Abyss, Emperor Joker, Mandrakk II, FC Darkseid, Synaar the Demiurge.


4.) Universal abstract beings/fundamental forces who embody a universe (Beings that could affect a single universe):
God Swamp Thing/Spectre/Kismet or Eternity/ Krona (Trinity)/Death/Infinity (The Timestream)/Oblivion (Nothingness)/Angor/Entropy (End of Time after everything dies)/Maltusian Gods/The Moraiei/Three Witches/Destiny/Dream/Darksome/Yk'Kphat/the Antechamber of Souls/The Great Tree/The Abyss (Pre-Boot Dial H For Hero Villain)/Omega Attractor/The Oracle Entity/Maaldor/Ningal/The Aleph/Order/Chaos/Willow and her husband as one (one with the universe)/OA/Quantum Field/Azarath/Astro-Force/Omega Effect/Alpha Energy/Zero Hour Parallax (full power)/Ion (classic)/Sunbust energy/The Shadowlands/Cosmic Lotus/Nebula Man/Imperiex Prime

The Concentrator/The Primal Atom/The Sun-Stone/Genesis Box/Worlogog wielder/Damage (Big Bang)/Anti-Matter Cannon/The Master Blaster


5.) Abstract Concepts/physical body and manifestations of the Presence:
Destruction/The Decay ancient force/Anomaly (also known as Fires of Creation itself)/Desire/Despair/Dellirium/The Union/Dark Lords of the Ultra-Realm (War, Chaos, Madness, Hate, Death, Greed and Rage), Light Lords of the Ultra-Realm (Peace, Grace, Enlightenment, Love, Order, Life and Bliss)/Rama Kushna/Meshta/Wally the God Boy/Godhead


6.) Physical body and manifestations of abstract concepts:
Black Racer/Black Flash/Nekron/The Ecruos/Anti-Life Entity/Eon (full power)/Decay II/Tiamat


7.) Godlike Metahumans/1st class Metaphysicals, Semi-Abstract, God-Like beings, race, Demons, Angels/Metaphysicals that could potentially affect the universe:
The Monitors (race)/Hamilton Benedict/Gemini Entity/Alexander Luthor/Gemworld Dimension (currently Amethyst's spirit)/Jonathan Kent/Progenitor (Element Lad reaching his full potential and becoming God of a galaxy)/Progenitor and Omnipagues (merged as one being)/The Promethian Giants/The Quantum Mechanics/The Anti-Matter Man (Pre-Boot), Monarch.

Ramiel/Duma/Sandalphon/Archangel Amendaniel/Lord of Order (Shatru, St'ann, Terataya, Ynar, J'akk, Nabu the Wise, Patagones, Amethyst)/Lord of Chaos (Child, Gorrum, Hytuurnus, m'Shulla, Shivering Jemmy, The Weaver, T'Charr,The Shallow Brigade and the Laughing Dancers,The five original Lords of Chaos,Typhon, Vandaemon, Zanadu)/The Unity/Shattered God/SHAZAM's Elder Gods (Marzosh, Arel, Ribalvei, Voldar, Elbiam, Lumium)/S'ivaa The Destroyer/The Shadow Elements race/The Three Demons - Rath, Ghast, Abnegazar/Clockwerx/Trigon (in his dimension)/Krona/Bedlam/Dominus/Jakeem Thunder/Johnny Thunder/30th Century or present Mordru/The Great Darkness Saga Darkseid/Doctor Manhattan/Satan/Spear of Destiny/Azmodus (like the Spectre varies)/Shaitan/Shathan/Ultimate Man (fully evolved)/Ganthet possessed by Parallax/Superman Prime/Wonder Woman channeling the Godwave/Starbreaker/Yuga Khan/Brainiac 13/Fenris the Devourer/Omniphagues/Overmaster/Epoch/Vyronis/Preacherverse God/King of Tears/The Devil/Corinthian/The First of the Fallen/Saint of Killer/Angel of Death/Time Trapper I (Rokk Krinn)/Time Trapper II (Lori Morning?)/Glorith/Infinite Man/Timeless Ones/The Time Beast/Kulak/Eclipso (depowered and became Heart of Darkness)/Abraxis/Dr. Destiny/The Agents/Dark Angel/Zatanna and Adam (Godhead)/Agent If and the Realtor/The Carnivore (pre-God)/Cykroth/The Evil One/Maggedon/Alien Ator of the Timeless Place/Primordial Old Gods of Chaos/The Lords of Light/Nether-World Gods/Satan (Phantom Stranger issue pre-boot)/Willie Wisher/Father Time/Captain Skull/Cocoon of the Undying Ones.

---

Some of the character placements are based on statements and/or implied power, but most of them are feat based. Also note that the characters were placed in their respective tiers in no particular order (ie. Mallo being listed before Emperor Joker in the Multiversal tier doesn't mean Mallo is more powerful.) Wow. Nice.

Originally posted by Bentley
Darkseid isn't nearly that good.
While in his true form he was destroying a Universe merely as a side-effect of existing.

Originally posted by Galan007
1.) Beings/Forces who are beyond any creation (Beings that even Hypertime does apply to):
The Presence/The Overseers/The Primal Monitor

The Source/Carnivore with Presence's power/Gyges and Garamas/Ultimate Light/Ultimate Darkness (Ultimate Darkness and Ultimate Light are the balance of the Presence)/The Voice/The Unnameable One, Elaine Belloc, Mandrakk (original), CA Superman, Lucifer Morningstar, Michael Demiurgos.


2.) Hypertime abstract Beings/Forces (beings that could affect the whole Hypertimeline):
Hyperman (theoretically), Mr. Mxyzptlk, Bat-Mite, The Decreator, The Adjudicator.


3.) Multiversal abstract beings/forces (beings that could affect the Multiverse):
Una, the Worm of Heaven and Hell/Ea/Mallo Keeper of the Cosmic Balance/The Sword of Destiny/The Word/The Void/Anti-Monitor (COIE)/Entropy or Krona at full potential, The Godwave, The Ultimator, The Abyss, Emperor Joker, Mandrakk II, FC Darkseid, Synaar the Demiurge.


4.) Universal abstract beings/fundamental forces who embody a universe (Beings that could affect a single universe):
God Swamp Thing/Spectre/Kismet or Eternity/ Krona (Trinity)/Death/Infinity (The Timestream)/Oblivion (Nothingness)/Angor/Entropy (End of Time after everything dies)/Maltusian Gods/The Moraiei/Three Witches/Destiny/Dream/Darksome/Yk'Kphat/the Antechamber of Souls/The Great Tree/The Abyss (Pre-Boot Dial H For Hero Villain)/Omega Attractor/The Oracle Entity/Maaldor/Ningal/The Aleph/Order/Chaos/Willow and her husband as one (one with the universe)/OA/Quantum Field/Azarath/Astro-Force/Omega Effect/Alpha Energy/Zero Hour Parallax (full power)/Ion (classic)/Sunbust energy/The Shadowlands/Cosmic Lotus/Nebula Man/Imperiex Prime

The Concentrator/The Primal Atom/The Sun-Stone/Genesis Box/Worlogog wielder/Damage (Big Bang)/Anti-Matter Cannon/The Master Blaster


5.) Abstract Concepts/physical body and manifestations of the Presence:
Destruction/The Decay ancient force/Anomaly (also known as Fires of Creation itself)/Desire/Despair/Dellirium/The Union/Dark Lords of the Ultra-Realm (War, Chaos, Madness, Hate, Death, Greed and Rage), Light Lords of the Ultra-Realm (Peace, Grace, Enlightenment, Love, Order, Life and Bliss)/Rama Kushna/Meshta/Wally the God Boy/Godhead


6.) Physical body and manifestations of abstract concepts:
Black Racer/Black Flash/Nekron/The Ecruos/Anti-Life Entity/Eon (full power)/Decay II/Tiamat


7.) Godlike Metahumans/1st class Metaphysicals, Semi-Abstract, God-Like beings, race, Demons, Angels/Metaphysicals that could potentially affect the universe:
The Monitors (race)/Hamilton Benedict/Gemini Entity/Alexander Luthor/Gemworld Dimension (currently Amethyst's spirit)/Jonathan Kent/Progenitor (Element Lad reaching his full potential and becoming God of a galaxy)/Progenitor and Omnipagues (merged as one being)/The Promethian Giants/The Quantum Mechanics/The Anti-Matter Man (Pre-Boot), Monarch.

Ramiel/Duma/Sandalphon/Archangel Amendaniel/Lord of Order (Shatru, St'ann, Terataya, Ynar, J'akk, Nabu the Wise, Patagones, Amethyst)/Lord of Chaos (Child, Gorrum, Hytuurnus, m'Shulla, Shivering Jemmy, The Weaver, T'Charr,The Shallow Brigade and the Laughing Dancers,The five original Lords of Chaos,Typhon, Vandaemon, Zanadu)/The Unity/Shattered God/SHAZAM's Elder Gods (Marzosh, Arel, Ribalvei, Voldar, Elbiam, Lumium)/S'ivaa The Destroyer/The Shadow Elements race/The Three Demons - Rath, Ghast, Abnegazar/Clockwerx/Trigon (in his dimension)/Krona/Bedlam/Dominus/Jakeem Thunder/Johnny Thunder/30th Century or present Mordru/The Great Darkness Saga Darkseid/Doctor Manhattan/Satan/Spear of Destiny/Azmodus (like the Spectre varies)/Shaitan/Shathan/Ultimate Man (fully evolved)/Ganthet possessed by Parallax/Superman Prime/Wonder Woman channeling the Godwave/Starbreaker/Yuga Khan/Brainiac 13/Fenris the Devourer/Omniphagues/Overmaster/Epoch/Vyronis/Preacherverse God/King of Tears/The Devil/Corinthian/The First of the Fallen/Saint of Killer/Angel of Death/Time Trapper I (Rokk Krinn)/Time Trapper II (Lori Morning?)/Glorith/Infinite Man/Timeless Ones/The Time Beast/Kulak/Eclipso (depowered and became Heart of Darkness)/Abraxis/Dr. Destiny/The Agents/Dark Angel/Zatanna and Adam (Godhead)/Agent If and the Realtor/The Carnivore (pre-God)/Cykroth/The Evil One/Maggedon/Alien Ator of the Timeless Place/Primordial Old Gods of Chaos/The Lords of Light/Nether-World Gods/Satan (Phantom Stranger issue pre-boot)/Willie Wisher/Father Time/Captain Skull/Cocoon of the Undying Ones.

---

Some of the character placements are based on statements and/or implied power, but most of them are feat based. Also note that the characters were placed in their respective tiers in no particular order (ie. Mallo being listed before Emperor Joker in the Multiversal tier doesn't mean Mallo is more powerful.)
Your list is big...and complicated. http://images.killermovies.com/forums/moresmilies/blowup.gif

But comprehensive.

Side-effect of dying. He took advantage of the unstability caused by the war on heaven.

Still, I agree with Galan because I know he's aknowledgeable and if he places FC DS high then he probably is.

Originally posted by Bentley
Side-effect of dying. He took advantage of the unstability caused by the war on heaven.

The "War in Heaven" was his battle with New Genesis which he won. After winning he was able to enter the Universe in his real form and was essentially crushing it and dragging it into a singularity.

His mere existence poisoned reality. He was dragging the entire Universe (and by virtue of it being the "main" Earth, the Multiverse as well) with him.

Darkseid was technically killed during the War in Heaven (that's what initiated his fall.) But unlike any other God, Darkseid was able to somehow will himself to land in the material world before his fall was 'complete'. Darkseid's mere existence in the material world created a singularity at the base of creation, which was dragging the entire multiverse down with him. In a nutshell: Darkseid knew that he could not prevent his fall, but if he was going down, all existence was going down with him.

And just so we're all on the same page, the Anti-Life Equation had nothing to do with the above -- that was all Darkseid. All the ALE allowed Darkseid to do was control any sentient being(s) who heard/saw the Equation. That's why I ranked FC Darkseid as a multiversal power, but only ranked the ALE as a universal power.

Originally posted by Galan007
Darkseid was technically killed during the War in Heaven (that's what initiated his fall.) But unlike any other God, Darkseid was able to somehow will himself to land in the material world before his fall was 'complete'. Darkseid's mere existence in the material world created a singularity at the base of creation, which was dragging the entire multiverse down with him. In a nutshell: Darkseid knew that he could not prevent his fall, but if he was going down, all existence was going down with him.

And just so we're all on the same page, the Anti-Life Equation had nothing to do with the above -- that was all Darkseid. All the ALE allowed Darkseid to do was control any sentient being(s) who heard/saw the Equation. That's why I ranked FC Darkseid as a multiversal power, but only ranked the ALE as a universal power.
Yeah the ALE seemed pretty superfluous in FC.

Originally posted by Galan007
1.) Beings/Forces who are beyond any creation (Beings that even Hypertime does apply to):
The Presence/The Overseers/The Primal Monitor

The Source/Carnivore with Presence's power/Gyges and Garamas/Ultimate Light/Ultimate Darkness (Ultimate Darkness and Ultimate Light are the balance of the Presence)/The Voice/The Unnameable One, Elaine Belloc, Mandrakk (original), CA Superman, Lucifer Morningstar, Michael Demiurgos.


2.) Hypertime abstract Beings/Forces (beings that could affect the whole Hypertimeline):
Hyperman (theoretically), Mr. Mxyzptlk, Bat-Mite, The Decreator, The Adjudicator.


3.) Multiversal abstract beings/forces (beings that could affect the Multiverse):
Una, the Worm of Heaven and Hell/Ea/Mallo Keeper of the Cosmic Balance/The Sword of Destiny/The Word/The Void/Anti-Monitor (COIE)/Entropy or Krona at full potential, The Godwave, The Ultimator, The Abyss, Emperor Joker, Mandrakk II, FC Darkseid, Synaar the Demiurge.


4.) Universal abstract beings/fundamental forces who embody a universe (Beings that could affect a single universe):
God Swamp Thing/Spectre/Kismet or Eternity/ Krona (Trinity)/Death/Infinity (The Timestream)/Oblivion (Nothingness)/Angor/Entropy (End of Time after everything dies)/Maltusian Gods/The Moraiei/Three Witches/Destiny/Dream/Darksome/Yk'Kphat/the Antechamber of Souls/The Great Tree/The Abyss (Pre-Boot Dial H For Hero Villain)/Omega Attractor/The Oracle Entity/Maaldor/Ningal/The Aleph/Order/Chaos/Willow and her husband as one (one with the universe)/OA/Quantum Field/Azarath/Astro-Force/Omega Effect/Alpha Energy/Zero Hour Parallax (full power)/Ion (classic)/Sunbust energy/The Shadowlands/Cosmic Lotus/Nebula Man/Imperiex Prime

The Concentrator/The Primal Atom/The Sun-Stone/Genesis Box/Worlogog wielder/Damage (Big Bang)/Anti-Matter Cannon/The Master Blaster


5.) Abstract Concepts/physical body and manifestations of the Presence:
Destruction/The Decay ancient force/Anomaly (also known as Fires of Creation itself)/Desire/Despair/Dellirium/The Union/Dark Lords of the Ultra-Realm (War, Chaos, Madness, Hate, Death, Greed and Rage), Light Lords of the Ultra-Realm (Peace, Grace, Enlightenment, Love, Order, Life and Bliss)/Rama Kushna/Meshta/Wally the God Boy/Godhead


6.) Physical body and manifestations of abstract concepts:
Black Racer/Black Flash/Nekron/The Ecruos/Anti-Life Entity/Eon (full power)/Decay II/Tiamat


7.) Godlike Metahumans/1st class Metaphysicals, Semi-Abstract, God-Like beings, race, Demons, Angels/Metaphysicals that could potentially affect the universe:
The Monitors (race)/Hamilton Benedict/Gemini Entity/Alexander Luthor/Gemworld Dimension (currently Amethyst's spirit)/Jonathan Kent/Progenitor (Element Lad reaching his full potential and becoming God of a galaxy)/Progenitor and Omnipagues (merged as one being)/The Promethian Giants/The Quantum Mechanics/The Anti-Matter Man (Pre-Boot), Monarch.

Ramiel/Duma/Sandalphon/Archangel Amendaniel/Lord of Order (Shatru, St'ann, Terataya, Ynar, J'akk, Nabu the Wise, Patagones, Amethyst)/Lord of Chaos (Child, Gorrum, Hytuurnus, m'Shulla, Shivering Jemmy, The Weaver, T'Charr,The Shallow Brigade and the Laughing Dancers,The five original Lords of Chaos,Typhon, Vandaemon, Zanadu)/The Unity/Shattered God/SHAZAM's Elder Gods (Marzosh, Arel, Ribalvei, Voldar, Elbiam, Lumium)/S'ivaa The Destroyer/The Shadow Elements race/The Three Demons - Rath, Ghast, Abnegazar/Clockwerx/Trigon (in his dimension)/Krona/Bedlam/Dominus/Jakeem Thunder/Johnny Thunder/30th Century or present Mordru/The Great Darkness Saga Darkseid/Doctor Manhattan/Satan/Spear of Destiny/Azmodus (like the Spectre varies)/Shaitan/Shathan/Ultimate Man (fully evolved)/Ganthet possessed by Parallax/Superman Prime/Wonder Woman channeling the Godwave/Starbreaker/Yuga Khan/Brainiac 13/Fenris the Devourer/Omniphagues/Overmaster/Epoch/Vyronis/Preacherverse God/King of Tears/The Devil/Corinthian/The First of the Fallen/Saint of Killer/Angel of Death/Time Trapper I (Rokk Krinn)/Time Trapper II (Lori Morning?)/Glorith/Infinite Man/Timeless Ones/The Time Beast/Kulak/Eclipso (depowered and became Heart of Darkness)/Abraxis/Dr. Destiny/The Agents/Dark Angel/Zatanna and Adam (Godhead)/Agent If and the Realtor/The Carnivore (pre-God)/Cykroth/The Evil One/Maggedon/Alien Ator of the Timeless Place/Primordial Old Gods of Chaos/The Lords of Light/Nether-World Gods/Satan (Phantom Stranger issue pre-boot)/Willie Wisher/Father Time/Captain Skull/Cocoon of the Undying Ones.

---

Some of the character placements are based on statements and/or implied power, but most of them are feat based. Also note that the characters were placed in their respective tiers in no particular order (ie. Mallo being listed before Emperor Joker in the Multiversal tier doesn't mean Mallo is more powerful.)

Why is Final Crisis Darksied so high up on these hierarchies ? I was under the impression he proved only capable of sucking a large part of the our Solar system into the singularity at his heart. The reason the universe disappeared, was because of the Metaphysics of the 52. Destroy Earth prime, destroy the universe- multiverse.

I agree that it could be debated whether Darkseid actually caused the singularity by himself or if he seized an existing inestability. But you could consider that once the singularity was made DS was the singularity, there is no difference between the event folding the multiverse and DS. Picking DS at that very point would be effectively a multiversal entity.

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Why is Final Crisis Darksied so high up on these hierarchies ? I was under the impression he proved only capable of sucking a large part of the our Solar system into the singularity at his heart. The reason the universe disappeared, was because of the Metaphysics of the 52. Destroy Earth prime, destroy the universe- multiverse. I understand what you are saying. After all, conquering Keystone earth in order to gain control over the multiverse was pretty much the main reason AM and his hoard invaded earth during SCW. However, what separates FC Darkseid from the above is the fact that there were a few instances during FC in which we can actually see the entire multiverse engulfed by his black hole:
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/fc_singularity1.jpg
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/fc_singularity2.jpg
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/fc_singularity3.jpg

Tack on the fact that there are also numerous statements pertaining to "Darksied's shadow being cast over the entire multiverse", and "Darkseid dragging the multiverse down with him", etc.

Imo, he deserves the multiversal ranking I gave him.

Originally posted by Galan007
I understand what you are saying. After all, conquering Keystone earth in order to gain control over the multiverse was pretty much the main reason AM and his hoard invaded earth during SCW. However, what separates FC Darkseid from the above is the fact that there were a few instances during FC in which we can actually see the entire multiverse engulfed by his black hole:
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/fc_singularity1.jpg
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/fc_singularity2.jpg
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/fc_singularity3.jpg

Tack on the fact that there are also numerous statements pertaining to "Darksied's shadow being cast over the entire multiverse", and "Darkseid dragging the multiverse down with him", etc.

Imo, he deserves the multiversal ranking I gave him.

I'm not sure ... I believe either of these scenarios are plausible, but I'm not sure which is definite.

1.) As you have stated, Darksied had a singularity so power full, it created a gravity well that sucked the entire multiverse into it.

2.) The singularity pulled Earth Prime into it, which being the Falcrum of the multiverse lead to the breakdown of the other universes as seen in the scans.

I believe the quotes you refer to, could be used validly in either aforementioned scenario .

I feel proud to know 90% of galen's list

But the other 10% flew over my head and gave me the finger

Originally posted by Galan007
Darkseid was technically killed during the War in Heaven (that's what initiated his fall.) But unlike any other God, Darkseid was able to somehow will himself to land in the material world before his fall was 'complete'. Darkseid's mere existence in the material world created a singularity at the base of creation, which was dragging the entire multiverse down with him. In a nutshell: Darkseid knew that he could not prevent his fall, but if he was going down, all existence was going down with him.

I love Morissons Platonic notion of the New Gods, that combines Idealism with String Theory. Platos' land of the Forms, where Ideas give rise to the material universe, is actually a Dimension vibrating in a higher plane of Space time. The New Gods, are the incarnations of ideas, and their material forms are actually shadowy representations of their true forms. In the Ideal realm Darksied was the manifestation of Evil, so in the physical realm, what better a representation of evil than a Black Hole ?, i.e. the total absence of light, where the rules of Space and Time, integral to life breakdown, and where impending doom is inevitable.

Originally posted by Galan007
And just so we're all on the same page, the Anti-Life Equation had nothing to do with the above -- that was all Darkseid. All the ALE allowed Darkseid to do was control any sentient being(s) who heard/saw the Equation. That's why I ranked FC Darkseid as a multiversal power, but only ranked the ALE as a universal power.

Yeah it seemed to act as a deterrent, rather than a "master plan". But I don't consider it to be anything less than Multiversal. Don't forget it over came the Spectre, and the only one with resistance to it was the Monitor kid.

Mind you, something that is bothering me. It seems as though the Monitors and the New Gods are heralding from the same metaphysical realm, I.e. the domain from which the essence of the material heralds, the Ideal realm. But they aren't from the same place ? Are there two metaphysical Ideal realms for the D.C. universe; i.e. one for the New Gods the other for the Monitors ?

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt


Mind you, something that is bothering me. It seems as though the Monitors and the New Gods are heralding from the same metaphysical realm, I.e. the domain from which the essence of the material heralds, the Ideal realm. But they aren't from the same place ? Are there two metaphysical Ideal realms for the D.C. universe; i.e. one for the New Gods the other for the Monitors ?
Morrison's Cosmology is screwier than most but the way I see it the New Gods, Monitors, and Angels of Pax Dei are like the Heralds of the three representations of God: The Source, the Primal Monitor, and the Presence.

It's best not to think about it too much.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Morrison's Cosmology is screwier than most but the way I see it the New Gods, Monitors, and Angels of Pax Dei are like the Heralds of the three representations of God: The Source, the Primal Monitor, and the Presence.

It's best not to think about it too much.

True, The Source/The Presence and The overvoid is all the same being. FC Darkseid nearly took it all and stopped his descent from death until the Flashes brought Black Racer to him. Here Grant is asked about FC and confirms what the void is.

http://comics.ign.com/articles/950/950703p3.html

The Endless are manifestations of the consciousness (The Source) so I would place them very high on the rankings.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Morrison's Cosmology is screwier than most but the way I see it the New Gods, Monitors, and Angels of Pax Dei are like the Heralds of the three representations of God: The Source, the Primal Monitor, and the Presence.

It's best not to think about it too much.

I could handle that, but then where do the Other Gods fit into the equation ?

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
1.) As you have stated, Darksied had a singularity so power full, it created a gravity well that sucked the entire multiverse into it.

The fact that we physically saw Darkseid's black hole engulfing the multiverse is why I believe that his own powers were responsible. The whole "if you conqueror Keystone earth, you conqueror the multiverse" concept didn't seem to apply to that particular instance... Plus it was never referenced during the arc itself.

Regardless, feel free to disagree with any aspect of my list. It's not like I'm an official DC authority... My list is as fallible as anyone else. But just so you know, in this particular case I'll never agree with you. Imo, FC Darkseid's multiversal feat wasn't accomplished in a domino effect -- it was all him.

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Yeah it seemed to act as a deterrent, rather than a "master plan". But I don't consider it to be anything less than Multiversal. Don't forget it over came the Spectre, and the only one with resistance to it was the Monitor kid. Without the Spear of Destiny, I'm unconvinced that the ALE would have worked on Spectre.

Everyone knows that Ambush Bug is DC's true Supreme Being

Tier 0 = DC/Vertigo "Company Staff "
Tier 1= Primal Monitor/Source/Overvoid

All The Rest

1) Superman

The rest.