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Steve Rogers takes on the Bat Family in a UFC Octagon with a Carbonadium fence. Standard UFC rules are in place(including restrictions on clothes/uniforms) and Steve gets 5 minutes between each fight to recouperate and talk with Nick Fury and Black Panther(who'll be working Steve's corner between rounds/fights).

Bat Family's

1. Batgirl(Stephanie)
2. Batgirl(Barbara)
3. Huntress
4. Robin(Jason)
5. Catwoman
6. Robin(Tim)
7. Nightwing
8. Batwoman
9. Batgirl(Cassie)
10. Batman


How far does he get?

Im thinking he makes it to 9 before losing do to exhaustion.

Makes it to 10.

(cap can fight for hours so i don't see tiring to be a big problem)

Originally posted by amnesia
Makes it to 10.

(cap can fight for hours so i don't see tiring to be a big problem) It is when he is also taking damage each fight.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
Im thinking he makes it to 9 before losing do to exhaustion.

Maybe lose due to sustain injuries but not exhaustion. Fatigue is one of the things caps doesn't have to worry about.

With UFC rules I think Cap can take it.

yeah definitely makes it to to 10, but may lose due to sustained injuries. has a chance to clear it though since he almost never tires.

Makes it to ten then goes down...

By the time he reaches Batman, he will be wore down a bit and have sustained atleast a few injuries...on top of that, Batman will be at full strength and ready for him (as, no doubt, Batman will have been watching every single match and will know wheres he's weak/hurt at).

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Makes it to ten then goes down...

By the time he reaches Batman, he will be wore down a bit and have sustained atleast a few injuries...on top of that, Batman will be at full strength and ready for him (as, no doubt, Batman will have been watching every single match and will know wheres he's weak/hurt at). Even if he didn't watch, he'd figure it out quickly by his movements and the way he defends and attacks. But Batman is a match for him anyways, setting it up to where he's going to have a handful of tough matches before getting there he definately loses at that point.

7.

Nightwing has gotten a push recently. I'd say he was closer to Daredevil now.

I'm conflicted. This depends entirely on how Roger's is portrayed.

Its just I know Jason is a real beast and Tim is a great fighter too. I dont see Cap get passed them and still be in a good enough shape to beat Nightwing.

I think people should remember conditioning and physical stats play a far greater role in a ufc octagon with rules then just going out and beating ppl up in the streets.

Also no one in the bat family will have their fancy suit or toys.

Cap`s physique and endurance is a big advantage here. Still if he gets some injuries along the way he will have problems beating Cass and Bruce. Could clear it with some luck but I think the odds are he goes down at 9.

He does not get past 9. Cass is a hard enough fight for him healthy, after taking a share of lumps he's definitely not going to be up for that.

I could see him stop at 7 too, depending on how much the prior ones have inflicted.

I wonder if the bats would take an "I won't win, but I'll focus on wearing him down instead of winning" tactic. If they focused specifically on injuries that'd make things harder for him, he could be slowed considerably by the later rounds. I could definitely see Tim take a fall in order to help out Dick more.



Yea, but most of the bats can keep fighting at full the entire length of a UFC match without problem and have pretty good stats to various extents.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Nightwing has gotten a push recently. I'd say he was closer to Daredevil now.

I'm conflicted. This depends entirely on how Roger's is portrayed.

No really a problem as on-panel implication show Cap as a vastly superior combatant to daredevil. Id say Cap rolls the first 5, in a round.Gets serious and relies on his stat advantage to overwhelm the next 3, takes hits at Nightwing but adjusts his style to counter the agility of the wing.

Cassy has the best chance to out point him in a standing game, but if he can get inclose, he can soak up enough damage and defo get in a position to choke her out. Long fight though, defo gets some bruises, but i can't say for sure he'd be injured enough at this point to SERIOUSLY hinder his chances at a win with Batman. Imean, he's fought T'Challa for like ..what 3 days? Even if it was sparring, 3 days on your feet and trading blows is beyond the batfamily. Andi can't recall the last time a mere human put a serious hurt on Cap so..

I think depending on the trouble from nightwing and the batwomen on a good day he makes it to bruce.

Originally posted by Juk3n

I think depending on the trouble from nightwing and the batwomen on a good day he makes it to bruce.

Indeed!

but Bruce ftw!

also we must remember Bruce beat Ras Al Gouls father in a hand to hand.....

and now i wait

Originally posted by darthgoober
Steve Rogers takes on the Bat Family in a UFC Octagon with a Carbonadium fence. Standard UFC rules are in place(including restrictions on clothes/uniforms) and Steve gets 5 minutes between each fight to recouperate and talk with Nick Fury and Black Panther(who'll be working Steve's corner between rounds/fights).

Bat Family's

1. Batgirl(Stephanie)
2. Batgirl(Barbara)
3. Huntress
4. Robin(Jason)
5. Catwoman
6. Robin(Tim)
7. Nightwing
8. Batwoman
9. Batgirl(Cassie)
10. Batman


How far does he get?
If this is pure h/h then Cassie should be higher than Batman.

All in all this list is kind of wonky, Batwoman is too high.

Anyway I say he stops at 9.

If it was pure battle ability, I'd say it'd go:


2. Batgirl(Barbara)
4. Robin(Jason) (adult Jason a lot better)
1. Batgirl(Stephanie)
5. Catwoman
8. Batwoman
3. Huntress
6. Robin(Tim)
7. Nightwing
10. Batman
9. Batgirl(Cassie)

Stops @ 7 or 9.

I don't see sustained injuries being much of a problem, no one before Dick is going to give him anything approaching a fight. He'll get to Bruce easily... not sure if he wins though. He might need to relax and let the Batwoman fight go to decision to get some extra recovery time while he easily avoids her every move.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
If this is pure h/h then Cassie should be higher than Batman.

No, she shouldn't.

Originally posted by batdude123
No, she shouldn't.

She is in the comics.

Originally posted by Q99
She is in the comics.

She is more skilled but Batman is stronger, more durable, heavier, has a longer reach and close enough in speed (if not flat out faster) for that to be a negligible advantage. Anyone Cass can beat in h2h, Batman would beat... likely easier.

Currently, Nightwing thinks he can beat Cass in h2h and that her move reading ability will only slow him down so much.

clears it. on top of having an incredible damage soak and stamina, not many of these guys can really hurt him. some cant even touch him

Last Cass vs Capt in pure HtH thread put that alone at a very close fight according to most posters.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
She is more skilled but Batman is stronger, more durable, heavier, has a longer reach and close enough in speed (if not flat out faster) for that to be a negligible advantage. Anyone Cass can beat in h2h, Batman would beat... likely easier.


Hah. Cass is faster without a doubt, more agile, dodger, a smaller target, and can inflict some pretty insane damage, as well as the whole move reading thing and having a brain that allows her to pull moves that are mentally impossible for him.

Less weight means less momentum means she can change directions faster (it's not total strength that determines speed or that kind of stuff, but strength-to-weight ratio), and half her moves put all her body weight behind them in crazy spin kicks that low mass lets her do faster.

They've fought, Batman had to retreat constantly and use belt gadgets to stalemate her. Also, compare their respective showings against Deathstroke: 3 draws (Cass), or vastly in Slade's favor (Bruce).

Batman is close to her, really there's probably no martial artist that either *couldn't* beat, but I'm pretty sure even he gives her the nod as the best fighter in the world and having better odds against the few people better than him, like Shiva.

You might think those things put him above, but that doesn't make it so as demonstrated.



Where did he think that?


Because even improved as he's been recently, he's not there yet.

No need to force my opinion with a long post.

He clears this.

Cap definitely makes it to 10. After that it's a toss-up.

On second thought, Cap just barely clears it. Bats will easily be his toughest opponent.

Originally posted by Juk3n
No really a problem as on-panel implication show Cap as a vastly superior combatant to daredevil. Id say Cap rolls the first 5, in a round.Gets serious and relies on his stat advantage to overwhelm the next 3, takes hits at Nightwing but adjusts his style to counter the agility of the wing.

All I meant was that Nightwing has gotten a push so he'd give Roger's more of a fight than he would have in the past. That's all. I'm not one to underestimate Rogers.

Originally posted by SamZED
Its just I know Jason is a real beast and Tim is a great fighter too. I dont see Cap get passed them and still be in a good enough shape to beat Nightwing.

I see Cap plowing through either Jason or Tim without too much hassle if his serious.

He'd get a fight, but he'd get past him.

7 or 9

Only 5 minutes between rounds isnt a lot. Of course Cap just might be getting started by then so who knows.

Originally posted by Q99
Last Cass vs Capt in pure HtH thread put that alone at a very close fight according to most posters.



Hah. Cass is faster without a doubt, more agile, dodger, a smaller target, and can inflict some pretty insane damage, as well as the whole move reading thing and having a brain that allows her to pull moves that are mentally impossible for him.

Less weight means less momentum means she can change directions faster (it's not total strength that determines speed or that kind of stuff, but strength-to-weight ratio), and half her moves put all her body weight behind them in crazy spin kicks that low mass lets her do faster.

They've fought, Batman had to retreat constantly and use belt gadgets to stalemate her. Also, compare their respective showings against Deathstroke: 3 draws (Cass), or vastly in Slade's favor (Bruce).

Batman is close to her, really there's probably no martial artist that either *couldn't* beat, but I'm pretty sure even he gives her the nod as the best fighter in the world and having better odds against the few people better than him, like Shiva.

You might think those things put him above, but that doesn't make it so as demonstrated.



Where did he think that?


Because even improved as he's been recently, he's not there yet.

So I see you've attributed the statement that what she does is mentally impossible for normal humans as being mentally impossible for Batman. lol? Batman, and every other active street, operates with the same coordination ability to multi-task without diminishing returns.

Batman and Cassandra have never actually fought. They've spared, and Batman did his best to a void fighting her in Batgirl 50 by running, because - in his own words - he didn't want to hurt her. Taking either of those as some how being indications of what a fight would look like like if Batman actually wanted to throw down is insane. Batgirl is able to beat Shiva the same reason that most of the time David Cain lets her walk all over his face without fighting back. CIS. It's some twisted maternal / paternal instinct, not any edge that Cassandra has. David Cain has shown that he can can compete with Cassandra if he wants... and Batman has completely wreaked Cain before. If she wasn't her daughter, Shiva would put her down too. Bruce would be a straight up nightmare for her in a real fight.

Batman is actually 1-1 against Deathstroke, that's better than 3 stalemates (one of which where Deathstroke was stated as toying with her).

Dick said it before RIP and his Batman skill boost. He told her she wasn't psychic, she can only guess what he'll do next, and that eventually she would be wrong and he would have her.

Didn't Grayson stalemate Cass in an Outsider's issue or something similar?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Didn't Grayson stalemate Cass in an Outsider's issue or something similar?

Batman and the Outsiders v2 14.

Honestly don't get why Jason is so low. Bar that, I dunno. i can see him having real trouble with Cassie, and Bruce being superior to her imo means that Cap would have a hell of a time getting past the last two.

Cap lay and prays on everyone up 'till Batman armbars him.

Other than Batman, Cap could take any of these guys to the mat and they would zero options. They would need to do something illegal to break his hold, he's just too big and too strong... and his advantage in stand up is only slightly weaker then a ground game. He's going straight to Nightwing without much effort.

I think that's a fair enough assessment.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Batman and the Outsiders v2 14.

Thanks.

Yes, because the reason David Cain trained Cass from birth in the first place was because he couldn't become the perfect fighter and he couldn't train Bruce Wayne to be the perfect fighter either. Only Cassandra met his goal.

The 'mentally impossible' was by a group of people who study metas btw, and know the actual limit of the human mind, scientists. We aren't just talking normal multi-tasking, keep in mind Cassandra has additional areas of her brain devoted to fighting. They said the aggregate speed was superhuman. Not peak human or almost impossible, superhuman and mental impossible.

Batman calls Cassandra's fighting perfect. Bronze Tiger bows to her. These are people who'd know.



(Ah yes, the Beechen Batgirl mini had that bit).

.... that's not how her powers work No surprise Beechen doesn't know that. It's not guessing, it's the opponent's body telling. Dick should know better, Cassandra will never 'guess' wrong.

And, guess what? He tries to stop her in issue 5 of the same series and she brushes him aside with a kick to the face. Also in issue 1, when he says that, she's pretty casually defending against him and disarmed him. Not really the best series to quote.

Heck, the Outsiders one where they fight more evenly, more like he fights when Batman, (til Alfred stops them because Alfred > All Bats) has her shrug a few blows and still was asking him to give up. And yea, he can put up a fight nowadays, but she's still better.


Shiva beats him, and Cass beats Shiva. And Cass is... really, really tough for her size, with defense as her best area. One mistake is not a win, even if Dick connected he'd still lose. Shiva landed many blows on her and still lost.



Please, Shiva wanted someone worthy enough to kill her and later talks about how incredibly proud she is that Cassandra beat her. Heck, in the Destruction Daughter's story line she talked about how her first defeat against Cass realize her flaws and made her push even harder. Shiva treated it as a legit win and is far less parental than Cain, she cares about Cass because Cass is the one who can beat her.


You're calling CIS but have nothing to back it up, just "oh, Dick held his own once instead of being rolled over," "every one of the people who talk about her performance as if it's the best, which it visibly is, must be wrong or biased," and that sort of thing.

Cassandra consistently does this well and tons of top martial artist back up how strong she is (BT, Batman, Shiva, Canary, Connor...).

Note, he said she was toying with her but she was visibly winning, she had a sword to his face. The toying with bit is the only thing that makes it a draw. If you want to be nitpicky enough to not call that a draw, I'll point out he actually ran from all three fights.

I'm pretty sure Batman's fought Slade more than twice... but hey, he jumped Slade and got worked. Slade fights Cass with no prep or ambush on her part and has to pull back. Slade even admits that her fighting is perfect and the only way he, *Deathstroke* can get to her is by psychology.

Cassandra he needs psychology, Batman he needs punching.

The Iceman comes and KOes Steve FTW.

Steve's stamina, fatigue not much of a problem, lifting 800 lbs. 9. Cassie stops him. No he doesn't clear it

The problem a LOT of the Bat Family characters will have here is the limited room they have to move around in the Octagon. They can't do their fancy dodging moves and if Steve gets on top of them or gets them clinched near the fence, it's finished. Few of them can bring him down to inflict damage. He's just too big, too strong, too skilled and never tires. In some cases, he's faster than them.

I say he makes it to Batman or clears.

Steve clears easily via lay and pray

Originally posted by Angel Watching
lifting 800 lbs.

read less bios, Steve lifts WAY more , he casually curls 1100lbs

grappling > martial arts every time. theres nothing cass can do when cap gets a hold of her

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
grappling > martial arts every time. theres nothing cass can do when cap gets a hold of her

Huh? Grappling is a martial art.

Capt does have better all around tool set for UFC match then Cass and that he physically superior.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Capt does have better all around tool set for UFC match then Cass and that he physically superior.

In some areas. She does have better speed feats and is a smaller/harder target.

I don't even see Steve getting past NW after all those fights. If he gets past him then he definitely stops @ Cassie.

Originally posted by namorsubby
I don't even see Steve getting past NW after all those fights. If he gets past him then he definitely stops @ Cassie.

why do you think this? Look through his career, can you count the number of times people of the same calibur as those combatants lower than NW has caused Cap problems enough to end a fight? If we liken Cap to DS, then he also rolls NW in 1 panel no? Transfer that to the Octagon. Which also implies he's obliterating everyone lower on the list and suffering no ill effects of those battles. One or two of the shot Cap uses to casually daze spider-man would be enough to seriously hinder many people on this list.

Originally posted by Juk3n
why do you think this? Look through his career, can you count the number of times people of the same calibur as those combatants lower than NW has caused Cap problems enough to end a fight? If we liken Cap to DS, then he also rolls NW in 1 panel no? Transfer that to the Octagon. Which also implies he's obliterating everyone lower on the list and suffering no ill effects of those battles. One or two of the shot Cap uses to casually daze spider-man would be enough to seriously hinder many people on this list.

Except Cap is not gonna roll NW in one panel. Nightwing these days is considered around Batman caliber himself. It would be a fight. I don't see Cap emerging victorious from that match and then taking out a fighter like Cassandra Cain.


And heaven forbid, getting past her and then taking Batman? Sounds like a hell of a workload for Cap to plow straight through. Remember, NW, Cassie, and Bruce individually can and have given metas fits even hand to hand.

to my knowledge, pressure point strikes are not against the rules in UFC...

Steve utterly destroys 1-6. Grayson hangs in and does damage then Steve gets dropped at 9.

Yea, let's not forget that humans like Crossbones and Batroc are quite capable of giving Capt a good fight, and the best bats would beat them.

Originally posted by Q99
In some areas. She does have better speed feats and is a smaller/harder target. He grabs her and judo tosses her ass.

Then LnP's for three rounds.

Originally posted by Q99
Yea, let's not forget that humans like Crossbones and Batroc are quite capable of giving Capt a good fight, and the best bats would beat them.
I don't think we can say that guys like Batroc and Crossbones are still capable of giving Cap a good fight unless he's holding back quite a bit. I mean he beat Crossbones when he had lost the SSS and Crossbones actually had a strength edge against him, and he's been making Batroc look like a chump when they fight for years now.

In other words, these villians(or at least one) have become jokes and are not suitable matches for the most formmidable characters listed in this guantlet either.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
He grabs her and judo tosses her ass.

Then LnP's for three rounds.

Tossing Cass is just going to end up with her landing on her feat or hands and attacking from that position.

Grabbing her in the first place is super-hard too.

Originally posted by Q99
Tossing Cass is just going to end up with her landing on her feat or hands and attacking from that position.

Grabbing her in the first place is super-hard too. Do you even understand what happens in a judo toss, or is all your MA logic derived from comics?

makes it to batman..

Originally posted by namorsubby
In other words, these villians(or at least one) have become jokes and are not suitable matches for the most formmidable characters listed in this guantlet either.
If you're talking about Batroc it's been noted that the guy's gotten older. Nowadays any of the top Bats could probably beat him pretty easily H2H...

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Do you even understand what happens in a judo toss, or is all your MA logic derived from comics?

A RL Judo toss? Sure. They aren't exactly going to be as effective on someone so freakishly superhuman, throwing effective moves in mid-toss is not exactly going to be out of the question for her, nor is getting one in going to be particularly likely. At best she's going to be off the ground and away an instant later.