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Lets say alien life form wanted resources from earth, are we ready to defend our planet earth and save human race?


(topic inspired by independence day and starcraft)

Discuss this.

This depends entirely on the physiology and technology of the aliens.

No matter what technology the aliens have we won't be able to defend ourselves.

Don't believe Hollywood we stand no chance in defeating a race who has the means to travel faster than light or create shortcuts in space/time.

Originally posted by kgkg
No matter what technology the aliens have we won't be able to defend ourselves.

Really? I think we could beat that are hugely aliens less advanced than us in terms of weapons and armor.

Originally posted by kgkg
Don't believe Hollywood we stand no chance in defeating a race who has the means to travel faster than light or create shortcuts in space/time.

1) Harry Turtledove's "The Road Not Taken" would like to have a word with you.
2) As long as you have patience interstellar travel just requires the ability to get to Earth's escape velocity, plus a bit more. No magic FTL device need ever be involved.

How in the hell is this even remotely philosophical?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Really? I think we could beat that are hugely aliens less advanced than us in terms of weapons and armor. Not likely that Aliens will have less advance weapon and armor than us if they have the tech and resources to maintain interstellar travel.


Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos 1) Harry Turtledove's "The Road Not Taken" would like to have a word with you. 2) As long as you have patience interstellar travel just requires the ability to get to Earth's escape velocity, plus a bit more. No magic FTL device need ever be involved. So a hostile Alien with ability to space travel light years will be less advance than us?... don't follow.

Originally posted by kgkg
Not likely that Aliens will have less advance weapon and armor than us if they have the tech and resources to maintain interstellar travel.

We know nothing at all about the aliens in this thought experiment, especially how they think. You seem to assume they will follow a technological path similar to ours but it's totally possible for them to develop their ability to travel massively in advance of their weapons.

Originally posted by kgkg
So a hostile Alien with ability to space travel light years will be less advance than us?... don't follow.

Traveling light years is easy.
Step 1) Reach your planet's escape velocity.
Step 2) Don't crash.

And that's it, actually. Your ship is already on its way. We've done that several times: Voyager 1 and 2, Pioneer 10 and 11, New Horizons.

Surviving the trip is hard, certainly, but life support technology doesn't mean military advancement any more than a reasonably powerful engine does.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos


Traveling light years is easy.
Step 1) Reach your planet's escape velocity.
Step 2) Don't crash.

And that's it, actually. Your ship is already on its way. We've done that several times: Voyager 1 and 2, Pioneer 10 and 11, New Horizons.



He obviously means a race capable of travelling at light speed, not a race that has travelled light years and taken 70 years to get here. And in that case he would be correct, there is a strong connection between domestic and military application of new inventions. Weaponry/travel are connected, do you not see the connection between Guns and Rocket ships? It makes perfect sense that the advancement of one medium would lend itself the the advancement of another. Take the internal combustion engine as an example.

Any race capable of sustaining faster than light travel, is going to militarily more advanced than us period. Weapons / travel / lifesupport / medicinal. Everything. Because when you invent a new technology you have to invent counter measures at the same time. Imagine how far advanced their life support systems will be for ftl travel. Imagine the armor/shields of the vehicle..imagine the shields/armor of the soldiers onboard the ship. They're hardly gonna have this advance ship and armor, and be shotting a bloody 125mm cannons are they? Of course they're gonna have more advanced weaponry, they'd steam roll the planets world superpowers in a couple hours.

Originally posted by StarCraft2
Lets say alien life form wanted resources from earth, are we ready to defend our planet earth and save human race?
Depends on the number and type of starships (technology) which got them here. I would think we could repel one Daedalus-type starship rather easily. A single Federation-type starship, OTOH, could "lay waste to the entire surface of the world" (from "Bread and Circuses" TOS), easily countering our missiles (or simply staying out of range) and blasting away with phasers, etc.

Actually, either ship could begin an attack with EMPs, now that I think of it. Then drop neutron bombs, viruses designed to kill only humans...

And if a whole fleet arrived...

F*ck. We're toast.

Originally posted by Juk3n
He obviously means a race capable of travelling at light speed, not a race that has travelled light years and taken 70 years to get here. And in that case he would be correct, there is a strong connection between domestic and military application of new inventions.

You're assuming that aliens behave anything like us at all. If they do, fine, but that hasn't been established in this thought experiment yet.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Weaponry/travel are connected, do you not see the connection between Guns and Rocket ships? It makes perfect sense that the advancement of one medium would lend itself the the advancement of another. Take the internal combustion engine as an example.

Hindsight is always perfect. Truly alien beings might never make such a connection. Even more simply, they might never invent guns due to a lack of appropriate resources but still have the materials to make rockets.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Any race capable of sustaining faster than light travel, is going to militarily more advanced than us period. Weapons / travel / lifesupport / medicinal. Everything. Because when you invent a new technology you have to invent counter measures at the same time. Imagine how far advanced their life support systems will be for ftl travel. Imagine the armor/shields of the vehicle..imagine the shields/armor of the soldiers onboard the ship. They're hardly gonna have this advance ship and armor, and be shotting a bloody 125mm cannons are they? Of course they're gonna have more advanced weaponry, they'd steam roll the planets world superpowers in a couple hours.

FTL is a completely fictional technology, so it doesn't necessarily require any advancement at all. You only associate it as such because your used to seeing it in popular science fiction.

Like I mentioned before: check out Turtledove's short story "The Road Not Taken", aliens end up inventing FTL travel before revolvers.

Or look at David Gerrold's "The War Against The Chtorr" in which the invading aliens have no technology at all, and wreak ecological carnage on the planet. Or the "Alien" series of movies for another example of aliens with no technology that present a threat to Earth.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://forestdragon.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/s4_12-daleks.jpg&imgrefurl=http://forestdragon.wordpress.com/category/science-fiction/&usg=__GovK0_-PUmKJJqkniF_qvWOdOuw=&h=768&w=1024&sz=157&hl=en&start=0&tbnid=2N1KfteoNkdyTM:&tbnh=107&tbnw=134&prev=/ images%3Fq%3Ddaleks%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1024%26bih%3
D624%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C171&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=104&vpy=277&dur=2351&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=143&ty=106&ei=wI1ZTJKEA4OBnQetr7HRCA&page=1&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:12,s:0&biw=1024&bih=624

...I don't like our chances.

I thought our nuclear weaponry could turn the tide against invading life forms/aliens

Originally posted by StarCraft2
I thought our nuclear weaponry could turn the tide against invading life forms/aliens

We need to know more about them. Being attacked by "aliens" leaves an incredible number of possibilities.

If they have spaceships with engines that can reach high speeds we're dead. Nothing on Earth today can defend against a guided weapon going at 100s of miles a second.

On the other hand if invasion has to be carried on asteroids and they try to beat us to death when they pop out, nukes would be more than enough.

Another option is that they're incompetent, like the aliens from "Prince of Space", and send one small ship to invade us in hopes of stealing the technology they need to mount a proper invasion.

also depends on their motive no? if their intention was only to destroy the earth or kill everyone on it then we wouldnt have a very good chance. but if their trying to occupy it or enslave us any FTL weaponry and the like wouldnt really mean anything.

plus theres the problem of our bacteria. was that point in war of the worlds valid? would it really take an alien species hundreds/thousands of years to adapt to the germs on our planet?

Originally posted by AthenasTrgrFngr
also depends on their motive no? if their intention was only to destroy the earth or kill everyone on it then we wouldnt have a very good chance. but if their trying to occupy it or enslave us any FTL weaponry and the like wouldnt really mean anything.

plus theres the problem of our bacteria. was that point in war of the worlds valid? would it really take an alien species hundreds/thousands of years to adapt to the germs on our planet? Starflight, especially FTL, is going to require such extraordinary technology, that by the time we have it we will likely have become unimaginably advanced in other areas as well, eg, medical, nano, AI, etc. I can't imagine that an FTL race would send down its people prior to a thorough evaluation of our environment--indeed, they would make such an eval before they even set off for our world: very soon (next 50 yrs, if not less) we will be able to detect specifics about extrasolar worlds, eg, atmospheric composition, and from there infer details about that planet's biosphere. And they won't have to send down troops: they could send robots, nanoscale to megascale. I mean, the options available to a civilization capable of FTL starflight, IMO, are just too many to even enumerate.

The best comparison I can think of is: imagine an aircraft carrier sending out UAVs for multipurpose operations against islands whose inhabitants' best weapons are bows and arrows.

I really don't see any contest here.

Originally posted by StarCraft2
I thought our nuclear weaponry could turn the tide against invading life forms/aliens So did Bill Pullman.

Again, this would depend on physiology of the aliens. Maybe they'd have evolved entirely differently and do not resemble us in any way (their evolution would depend on environment of their home planet, I'd imagine).
Perhaps bulk of their technology would depend on harnessing different type of materials and/or energy completely alien to us (pun!).

Difficult to tell, overall. If they use materials we have never seen we stand a little chance, however, we could argue that if they need resources from our planet, their needs could be similar to ours...

Possibilities are endless.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
FTL is a completely fictional technology, so it doesn't necessarily require any advancement at all. You only associate it as such because your used to seeing it in popular science fiction.

Like I mentioned before: check out Turtledove's short story "The Road Not Taken", aliens end up inventing FTL travel before revolvers.

Or look at David Gerrold's "The War Against The Chtorr" in which the invading aliens have no technology at all, and wreak ecological carnage on the planet. Or the "Alien" series of movies for another example of aliens with no technology that present a threat to Earth.

I don't know

I think you would have to be arguing that the aliens would have never looked for the military applications of whatever technology they did have.

For instance, in the rocket example you describe, you have also described interplanetary missiles.

For a "hostile" alien race to have not even considered the military applications of the technology they invented for other purposes almost poses an inherent contradiction to the OP, these aren't explorers or the "bug" species from SC or Alien, the OP insinuates this is an intelligent species looking to exploit Earth's resources. From this alone, we can insinuate that they are at a certain level of industrialization.

Arguably, though, there culd be cultural reasons they don't use their technology for weapons, but like Japan, I imagine that changing at the first sign of our anti-satellite missiles (which china has)

Originally posted by Mindship
Starflight, especially FTL, is going to require such extraordinary technology, that by the time we have it we will likely have become unimaginably advanced in other areas as well, eg, medical, nano, AI, etc. I can't imagine that an FTL race would send down its people prior to a thorough evaluation of our environment--indeed, they would make such an eval before they even set off for our world: very soon (next 50 yrs, if not less) we will be able to detect specifics about extrasolar worlds, eg, atmospheric composition, and from there infer details about that planet's biosphere. And they won't have to send down troops: they could send robots, nanoscale to megascale. I mean, the options available to a civilization capable of FTL starflight, IMO, are just too many to even enumerate.

The best comparison I can think of is: imagine an aircraft carrier sending out UAVs for multipurpose operations against islands whose inhabitants' best weapons are bows and arrows.

I really don't see any contest here.

i don't agree with that idea. even for us there are things that we are incredibly advanced in, while we're lacking in other areas. if you went 200 years back in time and told someone that we have created transportation that can take fly and move four times faster than the sound of your voice can reach their ear, and then in the same breath tell that person that every year a million people die from cancer, theyd laugh in your face. "surely," they'd say, "surely, if your society is so incredibly advanced that you can achieve faster than sound speeds, then surely you've designed a full-proof cure to cancer and most sicknesses?!" now, im sure you can list a hundred and one reasons for why we haven't created a full proof cure for cancer yet, but it doesnt matter. the point is that not all aspects of science grow evenly. the implication that FTL travel=bullet phasing shields+ultra bacterial adapters is crazy speculative.

Originally posted by AthenasTrgrFngr
i don't agree with that idea. even for us there are things that we are incredibly advanced in, while we're lacking in other areas. if you went 200 years back in time and told someone that we have created transportation that can take fly and move four times faster than the sound of your voice can reach their ear, and then in the same breath tell that person that every year a million people die from cancer, theyd laugh in your face. "surely," they'd say, "surely, if your society is so incredibly advanced that you can achieve faster than sound speeds, then surely you've designed a full-proof cure to cancer and most sicknesses?!" now, im sure you can list a hundred and one reasons for why we haven't created a full proof cure for cancer yet, but it doesnt matter. the point is that not all aspects of science grow evenly. the implication that FTL travel=bullet phasing shields+ultra bacterial adapters is crazy speculative.

yes, but FTL has military applications itself that would unbalance any conflict.

any dogfights between earth and alien ships might as well be between an aircraft carrier and a rubber dingy

launching even garbage through a FTL cannon would cause more damage to Earth's defense infrastructure than nuclear arms.

Not to mention the range that such a cannon would have

i know, i addressed that earlier

my bad

dont feel bad, im just making stuff up as i go

tends to work for me

Originally posted by inimalist
I don't know

I think you would have to be arguing that the aliens would have never looked for the military applications of whatever technology they did have.

For instance, in the rocket example you describe, you have also described interplanetary missiles.

For a "hostile" alien race to have not even considered the military applications of the technology they invented for other purposes almost poses an inherent contradiction to the OP, these aren't explorers or the "bug" species from SC or Alien, the OP insinuates this is an intelligent species looking to exploit Earth's resources. From this alone, we can insinuate that they are at a certain level of industrialization.

Neither hostility nor desire for resources implies industrialization. All living things can be seen as having those qualities.

But we can also have a technological species that can't really beat us. A very patient, long lived race on a low gravity, low resource planet could develop a weak rocket engine and some life support technology. They could easily be in space before they even have computers, especially if their patience means they take a long time to see the need for faster ways to compute things.

Now if we assume a traditional sci-fi alien empire, sure we all die. But that's sort of like asking what would happen if we were invaded by wizards.

Originally posted by inimalist
launching even garbage through a FTL cannon would cause more damage to Earth's defense infrastructure than nuclear arms.

Are we sure of that? The object's kinetic energy would either be imaginary, in which case we don't really know the effect, or infinite, in which case the weapon would destroy the universe the first time it was fired.

Originally posted by inimalist
Not to mention the range that such a cannon would have

Um... exactly the same as a normal cannon?

Originally posted by AthenasTrgrFngr
i don't agree with that idea. even for us there are things that we are incredibly advanced in, while we're lacking in other areas. if you went 200 years back in time and told someone that we have created transportation that can take fly and move four times faster than the sound of your voice can reach their ear, and then in the same breath tell that person that every year a million people die from cancer, theyd laugh in your face. "surely," they'd say, "surely, if your society is so incredibly advanced that you can achieve faster than sound speeds, then surely you've designed a full-proof cure to cancer and most sicknesses?!" now, im sure you can list a hundred and one reasons for why we haven't created a full proof cure for cancer yet, but it doesnt matter. the point is that not all aspects of science grow evenly. the implication that FTL travel=bullet phasing shields+ultra bacterial adapters is crazy speculative.
All we can go on here is speculation, including what someone 200 years ago would say.

I agree very much that not all aspects of science grow evenly. That was my point too, actually, but coming from the opposite direction. My feeling is, interstellar propulsion will lag behind most other areas if only because FTL theoretically requires unimaginably immense power sources (there is a much larger difference between, say, genetic manipulation or communication technology today and genetic/communication technology 50 years ago than there is a difference between spacecraft propulsion today and spacecraft propulsion 50 years ago). I can only imagine what energy like that would do in weapon form, or their robotics or bioweaponry...

(I'm pressing this only because after observing inimalist's and Digi's mind-numbing debate in another thread, I'm feeling like I want one too, and unfortunately this is the best I can muster. )

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So did Bill Pullman. As did Les Tremayne ("General Mann".

I believe it is safe to say that the invading aliens behave similar to virus.
These invading aliens go from planet to planet to take all the resources and occupy the planet for centuries and after the hostile aliens got all the resources (water, metals, recorded videos of how the war take place, samples of human dna and animals ) then and only then they can destroy the baren planet.

Also let us assume that the UFO's that we are seeing right now are their probes studying us. (some accounts of UFO's are said to be piloted by aliens according to history channel)

Edit: took the time to read all posts. My feeble mind is blown away by your opinion

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Neither hostility nor desire for resources implies industrialization. All living things can be seen as having those qualities.

But we can also have a technological species that can't really beat us. A very patient, long lived race on a low gravity, low resource planet could develop a weak rocket engine and some life support technology. They could easily be in space before they even have computers, especially if their patience means they take a long time to see the need for faster ways to compute things.

Now if we assume a traditional sci-fi alien empire, sure we all die. But that's sort of like asking what would happen if we were invaded by wizards.



Are we sure of that? The object's kinetic energy would either be imaginary, in which case we don't really know the effect, or infinite, in which case the weapon would destroy the universe the first time it was fired.



Um... exactly the same as a normal cannon?

lol

no, you are totally right

I just think it is hard to come up with a reason that a supposedly hostile species with the cognisense to know it needs to seek out resourses, has never considered military applications of its technology.

if we are able to kill one of them, we would take their weapons, study it and use it against them (but we cant mass produce it in such a short period of time or during the human vs alien war, should we win against them only then we can replicate/mass produce their weapons)

Originally posted by StarCraft2
These invading aliens go from planet to planet to take all the resources and occupy the planet for centuries and after the hostile aliens got all the resources (water, metals, recorded videos of how the war take place, samples of human dna and animals ) then and only then they can destroy the baren planet.

Also let us assume that the UFO's that we are seeing right now are their probes studying us.

Isn't that Indepnd Day?
I think it more likely that if we've been studied for decades by a more advanced alien species, one experienced at world exploitation and annihilation, and they attacked, we're burnt bread.

Originally posted by StarCraft2
I believe it is safe to say that the invading aliens behave similar to virus.
These invading aliens go from planet to planet to take all the resources and occupy the planet for centuries and after the hostile aliens got all the resources (water, metals, recorded videos of how the war take place, samples of human dna and animals ) then and only then they can destroy the baren planet.

Also let us assume that the UFO's that we are seeing right now are their probes studying us. (some accounts of UFO's are said to be piloted by aliens according to history channel)

So they're technologically above us, probably. Certainly they have extremely fast, highly maneuverable probes that are invisible to any method of identification other than being spotted visually. With that capability it would be difficult for them to lose the war.

We can put this in more obvious terms. Imagine the damage that could be done by terrorists with an invisible bomb. Now imagine they could also instantly place that bomb anywhere they want and that they had hundreds of them.

Pretty bad, eh?



There's also some numbers we can look at.

The highest speed I can find for a UFO in the atmosphere after a few seconds on Google is 340,000 kph. Let's say it's tiny, the size of a modern UAV and with similar weight.

900 kg * 340000 kph = 8x10^12 joules.

Or freindly neighborhood Boom Table suggests that if these things choose to crash they've blow themselves apart with far more power than any non-nuclear weapon we have.

And remember, those aren't weapons, just probes.

so its pretty much boils down who has the better tech.

and yes this thread as i said on the first post. inspired by independence day.

Originally posted by StarCraft2
so its pretty much boils down who has the better tech.

and yes this thread as i said on the first post. inspired by independence day.

well, yes

if there is such a huge difference in technology that any of our weapons would be useless, then yes, technology is probably the most important factor.

The aliens in independence day were really stupid.

Originally posted by inimalist
The aliens in independence day were really stupid. That was only part of it, IMO. ID was a fun flick but loaded with PIS.

Surely I hope our military leaders are not using movies, TV shows and games as examples of what a real invasion would be like, expecting that human ingenuity will save the day. In that vein, War of the Worlds was more realistic in that mankind was helpless from start to finish. In WOTW, the aliens were stupid in another way: not studying--hell, apparently not even anticipating--microbial life (we showed better awareness just in going to the moon: having our 'nauts quarentined when they came back, just in case, even though everything we know about the moon today still suggests it is a dead place).

At least the 1953 Martians had some excuse: they were first arriving on Earth at invasion time. The 2005 "Martians" had their machines here for god-knows-how-long.

2001: a space oddessy probably shows the best difference in capability between our tech and advanced/starfaring alien tech. We couldn't even discern what their stuff was for until it did something, let alone how it worked or how we could defend against it.

"A thousand miles below, he became aware that a slumbering cargo of death had awoken, and was stirring sluggishly in its orbit. The feeble energies it contained were no possible menace to him; but he preferred a cleaner sky. He put forth his will, and the circling megatons flowered in a silent detonation that brought a brief, false dawn to half the sleeping globe."

Star-Child ftw.

Now suppose that those UFO's are just hoaxes and we have not really encountered aliens yet. UFO's are just light shows to make money off from UFO shows and stupid people who watch them.

suppose that when we make our first contact with aliens when we humans are also technologically advanced (military wise) able to travel far to other solar systems/moons/galaxies just like in 5th element, and the aliens are also able to do so.

we make our first contact by our probes and alien probes meet/send signals. then alien probe destroyed ours thus categorizing them as hostile.
how are we going to prepare for this war? if this scenario happens. (human and aliens are able to travel far, and technologically advanced but both races have different means of killing each other)

Originally posted by StarCraft2
Now suppose that those UFO's are just hoaxes and we have not really encountered aliens yet. UFO's are just light shows to make money off from UFO shows and stupid people who watch them.

suppose that when we make our first contact with aliens when we humans are also technologically advanced (military wise) able to travel far to other solar systems/moons/galaxies just like in 5th element, and the aliens are also able to do so.

we make our first contact by our probes and alien probes meet/send signals. then alien probe destroyed ours thus categorizing them as hostile.
how are we going to prepare for this war? if this scenario happens. (human and aliens are able to travel far, and technologically advanced but both races have different means of killing each other)

This requires even more speculation. Realistically, we don't know exactly where technology is going to take us or what is technically possible/feasible. If you're willing to define what superscience beyond FTL travel is available and how exactly FTL travel works in the setting then we can make a few guesses.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
This requires even more speculation. Realistically, we don't know exactly where technology is going to take us or what is technically possible/feasible. If you're willing to define what superscience beyond FTL travel is available and how exactly FTL travel works in the setting then we can make a few guesses.

its a hypothetical q. my guess is that we are able to travel in a speed of lite or very close to speed of light by harnessing some kind of reusable energy but i could be wrong.
lets assume that traveling at a speed of lite or close to speed of lite is viable just for the sake of arguement/answering the original q

bombardment from orbit really leaves us screwed unless we expect the star wars satellites to work.. and dont get blasted down

aliens will not blast us down because they have detected precious resources at our planet. once they harvested all that (once we lose the war) then they can blast us into oblivion

Originally posted by StarCraft2
its a hypothetical q. my guess is that we are able to travel in a speed of lite or very close to speed of light by harnessing some kind of reusable energy but i could be wrong.
lets assume that traveling at a speed of lite or close to speed of lite is viable just for the sake of arguement/answering the original q

Then the war becomes based around boiling entire planets. If you take an object with a reasonable amount of rest mass (lets say 2000lb) and fling it at a planet at 99% the speed of light you get 5x10^20 Joules of energy released at impact. We'll come back to that in a minute.

At speeds that high the object will probably explode in the upper atmosphere. If you've ever bellyflopped into a pool (or just slapped a pool of water really hard) you're familiar with the concept. When you strike a fluid (be it a liquid or a gas) fast enough it acts like it's solid. The explosion would irradiate a large area beneath it and superheat the atmosphere, x-rays emitted from the explosion would fry electronics from horizon to horizon.

Back to those numbers up top. 4.2 Joules will raise 1 gram of water by 1 degree C. 500 Joules will cause one gram of water to flash into steam hot enough to cause burns. So if we dump 5e20 Joules (e is short for "times 10 to the power of" into the ocean then a quadrillion kilograms of water (2.2 quadrillion pounds) will transform into a blast of steam. Realistically only a fraction of the mass would turn to steam but it would be much much hotter.

But as I said, it will explode in the atmosphere. Air is easier to heat than water is. If you can cheaply accelerate something to 99% the speed of light then you can set a planets atmosphere on fire pretty easily.

Originally posted by StarCraft2
aliens will not blast us down because they have detected precious resources at our planet. once they harvested all that (once we lose the war) then they can blast us into oblivion

Saturation bombing an entire planet is wasteful anyway, they'll just target our cities and military bases.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Saturation bombing an entire planet is wasteful anyway, they'll just target our cities and military bases. bingo

Originally posted by StarCraft2
we make our first contact by our probes and alien probes meet/send signals. then alien probe destroyed ours thus categorizing them as hostile.Then we could get Nomad, or worse, a V'Ger. Neither leaves me hopeful re: human survival.

von Neumann-type probes would also not be a good thing, and many scientists speculate that this might be the most realistic scenario, especially if FTL proves impossible.

that explains all the alien probing reports...

I don't think we would since it would be a surprise atteck.But if we were aware of it we may be able to win.

Originally posted by StarCraft2
Lets say alien life form wanted resources from earth, are we ready to defend our planet earth and save human race?


(topic inspired by independence day and starcraft)

Discuss this. If they have the tech to get here from another planet millions of light years away, we probably aren't.

Originally posted by StarCraft2
Lets say alien life form wanted resources from earth, are we ready to defend our planet earth and save human race?


(topic inspired by independence day and starcraft)

Discuss this.

No, we're too busy fighting among ourselves the Aliens with all their high tech weapons won't have to lift a finger (or paw, tentacle, etc) to defeat us....they're just sit and eat popcorn while we kill each other....they can wait...why do you think they haven't shown up yet?

I assume that if aliens have amassed the technology neccesary to traverse space with a spacecraft that can support enough of them for a hostile invasion, then they can beat us.

Originally posted by namorsubby
I assume that if aliens have amassed the technology neccesary to traverse space with a spacecraft that can support enough of them for a hostile invasion, then they can beat us.

What if they're natively able to survive in space. Then their lifesupport technology could suck.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
What if they're natively able to survive in space. Then their lifesupport technology could suck.

Cthulhu mythos?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, that's what I'd do, too, introduce a system which created the most rapid advancement in human history. I like a challenge. I also like having people work for the sake of it, I don't want them to work for me, just work...random things...cause, you know, whatever, amirite?

How did banks cause rapid advancement?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
How did banks cause rapid advancement?

Banking and the whole monetary system really is the groundwork for most of the 19th century advancement, without it there wouldn't have been as much reason to develop so fast. Money is an excellent incentive for people to work hard and good and fast. Which is not to say that it is necessarily the best way or even a great way.

Seems logical to me that if an alien race were able to travel through space and discovered us before we became aware of them and they were hostile - we would be pretty much stuffed.

Since they are able to travel through space at will, that would seem to imply their technology are better than ours. Our technology MIGHT have been as good, but we chose to use that technology to blow each other up (admittedly, we are pretty good at that). So our defences against an attack from Earth would be pretty good (;-)) - but from space?

But seriously - do we even have anything to protect us from an attack from the moon? Say an alien race were to set up base on the moon - do we have anything that could reach that far in time to protect ourselves? As far as I know it would take quite a while before we could send anything up that far.

And all they would need to do was cut out a chunk, give it some velocity and drop it - well, anywhere on Earth, right? Apparently, "an asteroid approximately 10 meters in diameter... contained an estimated energy of 50 kilotons of TNT, or about twice the Hiroshima atomic bomb." Wikipedia.

Would it be that difficult to cut a chunk of rock big enough from the moon and drop it on Earth? I doubt it - if you can travel through space, that would seem child's play. In Anathema (brilliant book by Neal Stephenson) he describes how a race drops a rod from their ship into a volcano - and the devastation that follows.

See - no lasers, no phasers, no tasers - just drop something big enough at a high enough speed and let physics take care of the rest! Then wait a few years, or a few hundred years, in cryo-sleep and voila - one planet, good as new - and no pesky humans.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
But seriously - do we even have anything to protect us from an attack from the moon? Say an alien race were to set up base on the moon - do we have anything that could reach that far in time to protect ourselves? As far as I know it would take quite a while before we could send anything up that far.

That's a good point. Reaching the moon historically took a few days. Even if it only took one day to reach the moon, a point defense system there would be able to shred a missile or ship it with ease.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Banking and the whole monetary system really is the groundwork for most of the 19th century advancement, without it there wouldn't have been as much reason to develop so fast. Money is an excellent incentive for people to work hard and good and fast. Which is not to say that it is necessarily the best way or even a great way.

Huh, I don't think of bankers as being one of the driving forces behind that change.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Huh, I don't think of bankers as being one of the driving forces behind that change.

Well, the system that Bicarnok refers to is largely a driving force behind that change, individual bankers perhaps not. But the ability to produce for international markets, and generate capital for worthy endeavors is a huge, huge, huge part of the advancements we humans experienced over the last 100s of years.

Originally posted by StarCraft2
Lets say alien life form wanted resources from earth, are we ready to defend our planet earth and save human race?


(topic inspired by independence day and starcraft)

Discuss this.

Hellz yes we is. What do you think the military has been reverse engineering their technology for? pfft

Besides, if hollywood has taught us anything...,just because Aliens are uber smart, there is always one simple thing they tend to overlook..,like door knobs or bacteria. We're good man, don't worry bout aliens.

Originally posted by StarCraft2
Lets say alien life form wanted resources from earth, are we ready to defend our planet earth and save human race?


(topic inspired by independence day and starcraft)

Discuss this.


If the alien race made it here from their home world, we would be absolutely screwed. The technology required to travel between the stars could place then a million years ahead of us.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If hardcore anime pornography has taught me anything it's that aliens want to have sex with us. That's probably why they manipulated our culture to be so sexualized.

Well, Captain Kirk has been doing it for years - I am ready to offer my services! Alien babes - line up outside - I am ready to give my all for my country - indeed - for my world!

Let my just get my 'light sabre' ready...

http://www.hollywood.com/photo/Species_Movie_Stills_Species_Movie_Stills/5625049/5625081

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If the alien race made it here from their home world, we would be absolutely screwed. The technology required to travel between the stars could place then a million years ahead of us.

Even if they weren't a million years ahead of us the speed they would (probably) be traveling at as they approached would make it so that they could fire a few small missiles and kill us all.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Even if they weren't a million years ahead of us the speed they would (probably) be traveling at as they approached would make it so that they could fire a few small missiles and kill us all.

Very true... They would not even need a warhead; just mass.

They've already infiltrated us, don't you know that? We're already doomed.

Just be very polite and volunteer to be a really good pet.

I've got me boomstick, cuz I'm an American, hyuk, hyuk.
But will bullets ever be obsolete?

Any alien race with the technology to travel interstellar distances also likely has the technology to utterly shit-stomp our military without a fight.

Orbital bombardment ftw. There'd be nothing we could do about it. Which is why you should pray that the aliens either have benevolent enemies (or at least enemies who's interests coincide with ours) or a kind of Fifth Column within their society that's willing to help us.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Any alien race with the technology to travel interstellar distances also likely has the technology to utterly shit-stomp our military without a fight.

Orbital bombardment ftw. There'd be nothing we could do about it.

50 years till we have Gundams.

I hope its the green alien babes from Star Trek that invade.


MORE SNOO SNOO!

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If hardcore anime pornography has taught me anything it's that aliens want to have sex with us. That's probably why they manipulated our culture to be so sexualized.

ROFL

Originally posted by LLLLLink
50 years till we have Gundams.

rofl
we might have a chance.

Originally posted by StarCraft2
where is this quote coming from?
looked at pages 1-4 cant see it

Go the Shakya's post and click the work "POST" right above the quote. It will take you automatically to my post.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Go the Shakya's post and click the work "POST" right above the quote. It will take you automatically to my post.
i got it thats why i edited it

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Um... exactly the same as a normal cannon?

Incorrect.

Interstellar matter, stellar bodies (stars, planets, black holes, etc.) (even if minute), would influence both the trajectory and "relative velocity" of each object. Think of all of that as "wind resistance."

The object with the greater momentum would be able to go further in "space."





Work Cited

Newton's First Law of Motion.





In other words, inimalist was right by hinting at a distance difference.


Even if fired directly at a planet, the faster object would still travel farther: it would make a deeper crater....well, that assumes friction doesn't burn up the object, even faster. (atmosphere-less).

Originally posted by LLLLLink
I've got me boomstick, cuz I'm an American, hyuk, hyuk.
But will bullets ever be obsolete?

No.

In fact, ultimately a bullet possesses far more destructive capability than a laser ever can.

If you put enough joules into the laser and fire it several times in a row over a few microseconds, its going to put a bullet to shame.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
No.

In fact, ultimately a bullet possesses far more destructive capability than a laser ever can.

Are you referring to mass being converted into energy in a perfect "annihilation" scenario?

I think you may be right as a laser that's too large will destroy itself...in fact, there's a threshold for the size of a laser can make (size = how much energy the laser puts out).


I'd have to look at the numbers, though...as you may be able to produce a laser that puts out more energy, per second, than the energy produced by converting a bullet's mass entirely into energy.



Well...if you have a large supply of energy, you could technically fire a really really really tiny laser for a long time and eventually surpass a mass to energy conversation of a bullet.

Since when do people fire bullets capable of undergoing total conversion into energy? Even antimatter gives you a mixed bag.

Originally posted by Lucius
Since when do people fire bullets capable of undergoing total conversion into energy? Even antimatter gives you a mixed bag.


It doesn't matter (pun) as he said "ever."

His wording lead (pun) me to believe he was referring to the ceiling limit on how powerful you can make a laser and a mass to energy conversation of a bullet.


That, or he was just joking. awesome

Originally posted by dadudemon
Incorrect.

Interstellar matter, stellar bodies (stars, planets, black holes, etc.) (even if minute), would influence both the trajectory and "relative velocity" of each object. Think of all of that as "wind resistance."

The object with the greater momentum would be able to go further in "space."

True, I was ignoring the interstellar medium.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'd have to look at the numbers, though...as you may be able to produce a laser that puts out more energy, per second, than the energy produced by converting a bullet's mass entirely into energy.

Yeah, but then someone will just build a bigger gun.

The military doesn't want lasers because they're unstoppable death rays, they want a super accurate long range weapon that rarely needs reloading. That's pretty much the only advantage.

Makes me think of railguns...

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
True, I was ignoring the interstellar medium.

And I was just pontificating as I knew exactly what you meant.



Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Yeah, but then someone will just build a bigger gun.

The military doesn't want lasers because they're unstoppable death rays, they want a super accurate long range weapon that rarely needs reloading. That's pretty much the only advantage.


That's also true: maybe Blaxican was just getting philosophical about it? (By realizing that there was a maximum build out size for a laser but not one for a gun (making all matter in the universe into a gun)???

4 minutes in if you're bored.

0AV5aY7HYAk

Depends on a lot of things such as the techology level of the alien race.

A Star Wars level civilization could pwn us, but against a Starship Troopers level civilization we may stand a chance (the movie version Starship Troopers has some of the most stupid tactics and strategies I've ever seen in sci fi).