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No lasso.

Fight in NYC.

Who wins?

leaning towards engineer

Originally posted by 753
leaning towards engineer


Because of the no-lasso part? I don't know if Angie can get enough machines to work for her in the middle of New York.

They can fly, Angie turns into nanobots and enters Diana blood.

Originally posted by Bentley
Because of the no-lasso part? I don't know if Angie can get enough machines to work for her in the middle of New York.

That's not how her powers work.

Originally posted by The Nuul
They can fly, Angie turns into nanobots and enters Diana blood.

Yeah, if we turn off PIS Engineer has some cheap wins I think.

Well, PIS is not allowed on here...so its auto off.

I read two arcs of the Authority and I never understood her powers.

Silly French people.

She create tech from her metallic form and has technopathy doesn't she?

Originally posted by The Nuul
Silly French people.

I read it in french

Originally posted by Bentley
She create tech from her metallic form and has technopathy doesn't she?



I read it in french

Not so much with the technopathy. I wouldn't put it past her, but she just creates the tech herself.

Think of her as a low-level GL, but with metallic nanobot constructs instead of light-based constructs, and a considerably higher IQ than even the most creative GLs.

A T-1000 GL, heh.

So she's better than, let's say... Hal?

Nah.

Originally posted by Bentley
So she's better than, let's say... Hal?

In terms of versatility. She's insanely brilliant, and has some awesome on-the-spot tech to her credit. But she lacks the raw power of a GL. A good GL could just blast her to the moon and kill her.

I'm pretty sure it's a Diana stomp if she fights serious. Angie's main offense is gun, pretty much useless, Diana's *way* faster and stronger and can KO her (and any duplicates) quite quickly, the bugzapper feature on her bracers can fry nanos and other machines around her, and The Engineer doesn't really have a good defense against being punched out by a foe this level.

She's got the flexibility of a GL or more-so, but not the power.

Originally posted by Q99
Angie's main offense is gun



Be honest, how much Authority have you read?

I think that it is feasible for Angie to take on Diana, my doubt was about staying power, speed and the status of the physical match. Certainly Wonderwoman is no Superman and she is not nearly as good with her physical powerset.

Originally posted by Bentley
I think that it is feasible for Angie to take on Diana, my doubt was about staying power, speed and the status of the physical match. Certainly Wonderwoman is no Superman and she is not nearly as good with her physical powerset.

Uhhh... guess you haven't read much Superman or Wonder Woman for the past, I don't know... decade or two...

WW doesn't have the *accessory* physical powers that Superman does (Heat Vision, Super/Chilled Breath, superior Invulnerablity), but in terms of simple physical power, she is his near equal (He is stronger and more resistant; she is faster in HtH combat and has greater finesse when fighting). Given that she is almost as strong as SM, is a better fighter, and is capable of withstanding much greater physical punishment than most people realize (as of the past 10 years+), your assessment is very skewed.

*****

With that said, Angie has a couple wins going for her, given the nature of her abilities, and the possibility of using some highly finessed/techniqued applications of her powers to win against Diana, but overall Diana is taking the clear majority of wins here; Diana can (and has) stood up against GL's and won (including the likes of Sinestro), and as others have stated, Angie doesn't have the raw power backing her abilities that mid-to-higher level GL's have (though I wouldn't underestimate Engineer and call this a slam, by any means -- like I said, she can get at least a couple wins with finesse and/or surprise).

The difference in power level between Superman and Wonder Woman is essentially academic unless the foe is at *least* in the mid herald class. They'll both just beat down anyone less than that with ease, at least when it comes to power-to-power.



Lesse... the first 4-5 trades plus both Revolution books and Captain Atom: Armageddon.

Yes, she has a lot more tricks, but her first go-to is still making big chaingun arms.

In a less strait-up fight she'd have a reasonable chance of getting a stealth win with her nanos, and she can likely finesse the odd win, but she's outmatched here.

Can WW vibrate through solids? Vibrate to counter energy signals?

If she can't then her physical powers are more limited than Kal's.

Originally posted by Bentley
Can WW vibrate through solids? Vibrate to counter energy signals?

If she can't then her physical powers are more limited than Kal's.

*AGAIN*

Those are *accessory* abilities -- ones SM uses, but not as often as, say, the Flash does.

And Diana, with her Bracers, can counter ultra-fast, multi-vector attacks, including rapid energy attacks, especially when she employs (in an equally plausable but also not as often used effect as SM's vibrating) her Aegis Effect, potentially countering many of Angie's possible tricks.

Wonder Woman uses her general physical powerset just as well as Superman does; she just doesn't have as many secondary "special effects" as he does. Diana can see in the dark, discern illusions/deceptions (without her lasso -- including effects that Kal/Kara themselves have been unable to discern) via her Pallas abilities, and has heightened senses (though not X-ray vision, et al, as that is Supes tools in trade). Those abilities, coupled with her comparable physical power/speed to Superman, PowerGirl, Martian Manhunter, etc, make this a pretty clear case of her winning the clear majority. Angie will get a couple wins for circumstance/surprise/un-expected finesse. Period.

So at least we agree he IS superior in the strictly physical.

Originally posted by Q99
...but her first go-to is still making big chaingun arms. Does she also create the bullets out of nanos? If so, doesn't that diminish her mass? Just curious. I know virtually nothing about this character. Does she need to eat metal to provide raw material for producing more nanos? Or is this just one of those things I shouldn't be asking about, like the Hulk's indestructible pants?

Originally posted by Q99
Yes, she has a lot more tricks, but her first go-to is still making big chaingun arms.

This is a forum battle. She's never once going to use a gun.

Personally, I think the net of nanoparticles that can slice atoms is her best chance for a cheap win. I also agree that WW could knock out Angie without much force, but Angie has created somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 duplicates, all capable of flight. Taking out all of those would be very, very difficult.

Originally posted by Bentley
So at least we agree he IS superior in the strictly physical.

???????????????


Dude... seriously...


You're not making any sense... and apparently are not taking a closer look at what I said...

I never said he wasn't stronger/more resistant than her, but generally she is in his league of strength (apparently as strong as Karen, stronger than Kara, and roughly equal to a Marvel), and in terms of blunt force trauma, she is essentially equal (as proven by numerous punch'em-ups she's gotten into with him, Karen, and comparable beings) -- she's just not as resistant to edged/piercing/penetrating attacks as he is, and she doesn't have his *secondary* support powers, such as gaining sustenance directly from the sun, being able to go long periods without breathing (though she can, with great effort, hold her breath upwards of an hour, under duress). Their combat speed is equal, with her edging him in terms of combat reflexes, and possessing greater finesse, and while he can fly faster, that really only applies in open space -- in atmosphere, and in interplanetary orbits, they are equal.

Overall, in *simple* physical power/prowess, they are a wash, with him edging in strength/resistance, and her edging in reflexes and combat skill. His *secondary* abilities do not inherently reflect on his *primary* physical powerset, or prowess, just as the Flash's speed powers do not make him inherently more precise or coordinated (though he is certainly well above normal human in those regards). If Bruce (who has better coordination and finesse) suddenly had Barry's powers, he would in a relative period of time become better at using them than Barry -- and would have superior finesse with them, as well. But that's because Bruce's *core* physical/mental-set is better than Barry's, who (while superior to most normal human ranges), derives his "wins" from his *secondary* set, not his *primary* physical one.

In short: Superman has a *wider* range of powers/special effects than Wonder Woman, but that is completely secondary to this particular battle, as Diana's primary physical abilities are approximate to his, and that makes her more than capable of taking down Angie (the lasso not being present for this battle is moot -- WW wouldn't need it to win, it would merely provide the easiest non-violent resolution to the fight. But she doesn't need it, by any means...).

Reread some stories, I'll definitelly go with angie here. 6 maybe 7/10

Glad we agree then.

Originally posted by Digi
This is a forum battle. She's never once going to use a gun.

They're likely longer-range than her nano abilities though.




Not all *that* difficult with her speed.

Also, WW can fry a fairly large area with her bracer's lightning ability. That could knock out all the nanos in the air near her as well as nearby clones.

Originally posted by Q99
They're likely longer-range than her nano abilities though.

Not all *that* difficult with her speed.

Also, WW can fry a fairly large area with her bracer's lightning ability. That could knock out all the nanos in the air near her as well as nearby clones.

Tagging 30 Angie's would indeed be beyond her, speed and all. Angie's not a speedster, but can reach considerable flight speeds without any trouble. Multiply that by 30 of her and there's problems for Di to just punch them all. The lightning ability is viable, though. But has it been shown to neutralize tech, like an EMP? Because Angie has tanked and even created her own lightning artificially.

Originally posted by Mindship
Does she also create the bullets out of nanos? If so, doesn't that diminish her mass? Just curious. I know virtually nothing about this character. Does she need to eat metal to provide raw material for producing more nanos? Or is this just one of those things I shouldn't be asking about, like the Hulk's indestructible pants?

Hulk pants. Given her initial description and powers, some of her high-end feats make absolutely no sense.

Not all that much. Diana is a speedster.



It reduced a combat robot made by Dr. Ivo (Amazo's inventor) to ash.

Couldn't Diana outreach Angie before she spawns several copies? Maybe I should just go see her respect thread because I know squat about the Engineer.

Originally posted by Q99
Not all that much. Diana is a speedster.

How are we defining speedster? Flash is a speedster, WW is not. Angie can reach hypersonic flight speeds. If she has 30 duplicates all doing that, are you telling me Diana can track them all down easily? That's a bold claim.



Originally posted by Q99
It reduced a combat robot made by Dr. Ivo (Amazo's inventor) to ash.

Ok. Didn't answer my question.

Originally posted by Digi
How are we defining speedster? Flash is a speedster, WW is not. Angie can reach hypersonic flight speeds. If she has 30 duplicates all doing that, are you telling me Diana can track them all down easily? That's a bold claim.





Ok. Didn't answer my question.

(I've decided to ignore Bently, as he's just being an ass at this point, especially as he's now admitted to not knowing much about Angie...)

Uhm... yeah, Diana *is* a speedster, just like Superman, PowerGirl, Captain Marvel, and a number of others are; they *also* happen to be Bricks, Energy Projectors, et al, as appropriate *add-on* descriptors. Now, none of them are as fast as the Flash, but that hardly is a dismissal of their "speedster-ness", simply because the Flash is the definitive speedster in DC. Does Diana automatically default to multi-vector speed attacks? No. She has other tricks in her arsenal. But she *is* capable of such attacks/moves. Go check out the Respect Thread. That she *generally* uses her multi-vector speed in a *defensive* mode (deflecting multiple, ultra-fast attacks, or dodging similar), doesn't mean she *can't* use it offensively (as she has, as the need arose), and in a KMC battle, that is certainly an option for her. (And if you think Diana couldn't blitz 30 Angies in a given page/scenario of comic-book battling, then you *really* haven't paid attention to the character for the past two decades or so... hell, even back in the Golden and Silver Ages, WW had panels where she would multi-attack various opponents at speed...)