The most underrated...

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Bentley
... Among this characters:

But first and foremost, keep it civil.


Superman
Nova
Kyle Rayner
Batman
Darkseid
Puck
Hulk
Silver Surfer


Try to explain your answer (although I know most of you won't smile )

Colossus-Big C
darkseid is the only underatted there
everone else is over rated at times

rotiart
Depending on who you ask... Each character on your list has fans that wank for and against them...
Puck doesn't have many fans... But his history as a coward and his use of the space gem wasn't at all imaginative or indicative of a powerhouse...

Bentley
Originally posted by rotiart
Depending on who you ask... Each character on your list has fans that wank for and against them...
Puck doesn't have many fans... But his history as a coward and his use of the space gem wasn't at all imaginative or indicative of a powerhouse...


Puck is a coward? He had the Space Gem? messed

iceman24567
Mixing Puck and Pipe up

marwash22
underrated by who... the fans, or amongst other comics book characters?

Fans: based on some of the match-ups people put him in around here, I'll say Surfer.

comic characters: of course, it's Batman.

Bentley
Originally posted by iceman24567
Mixing Puck and Pipe up

Though so, Pip is ever scarcer at the forums than Puck (not counting tournaments here).

Originally posted by marwash22
underrated by who... the fans, or amongst other comics book characters?

Fans: based on some of the match-ups people put him in around here, I'll say Surfer.

comic characters: of course, it's Batman.

I was asking about here in the forums, but a general impression of comic readers would be cool too.

OneDumbG0
Right answer: Hulk.

If he was half as helpless as posters here thinks he is against foes that he's pitted against regularly on KMC, he wouldn't have lasted twenty issues in comics.

rotiart
Pip.... Ohhhh oops haha then I have no idea who the heck puck is

janus77
gotta say, for KMC it's Hulk, though I think it's more as a by-product of the Thor-love.

Bentley
Originally posted by janus77
gotta say, for KMC it's Hulk, though I think it's more as a by-product of the Thor-love.

Thor is loved indeed, likely one of the highest rated characters in the forum.

janus77
I think that's why Hulk is reviled by so many and basic "givens" of the character's powerset are seen as up for contention. like the forums myth of a limit on his anger (in the mistaken belief that it would thus imply a limit to his strength) that conveniently falls firmly within whatever character he's pitted against's capacity to out last.

unlike any other character talked about here, the dislike becomes evident quickly and then turns obstinant and heated...

BerserkersRage
Darkseid. His low showings are taken as his norm, and he is not looked upon (in KMC) as one of DC's major cosmic villains as he was meant to be.

Bouboumaster
I say Hulk. The second one would be Nova. And another one would be Wonder Woman.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by BerserkersRage
Darkseid. His low showings are taken as his norm, and he is not looked upon (in KMC) as one of DC's major cosmic villains as he was meant to be. thumb up

Q99
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
I say Hulk. The second one would be Nova. And another one would be Wonder Woman.

Oh, Wonder Woman. We have one or two people who overrate her, a reasonable that get her right, and then there's the all too common "What do you mean someone who goes toe-to-toe with Superman often, has multiple trans to low skyfather levels in her rogues gallery, and is a member of DC's Trinity is actually deserving of her high herald spot?". Ditto for her villains- Cheetah's probably one of the most misjudged by people either under or overrating her.


Nova used to be underrated but I think recent campaigns by pro-Novites have gotten a better view of him. Hulk, Darksied... yea.

namorsubby
Originally posted by BerserkersRage
Darkseid. His low showings are taken as his norm, and he is not looked upon (in KMC) as one of DC's major cosmic villains as he was meant to be. This.

DS is and has been a threat to all that is in the DCU. Definitely under-rated on KMC.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Bentley
But first and foremost, keep it civil.

ha. good luck.

D_Dude1210
Thanos is underrated. big grin

Omega Vision
Originally posted by BerserkersRage
Darkseid. His low showings are taken as his norm, and he is not looked upon (in KMC) as one of DC's major cosmic villains as he was meant to be.
It's a sad day when there are people that think Thor can beat him for a majority and that WWH has a snowball's chance in hell against him.

The Nuul
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Right answer: Hulk.

If he was half as helpless as posters here thinks he is against foes that he's pitted against regularly on KMC, he wouldn't have lasted twenty issues in comics.

PIS are in comics and not on KMC. Thats why.

The Nuul
Nova and Puck. These two are underrated because no one really reads about them or collect their comics that they are in. There are bigger names and teams that they hide in their shadows. Now, if they were on big name teams then they might get better status if more fans want to read about them, also the writers would give more respect to them.

DS gets effected by PIS way too much and Hulk uses PIS to make people job a lot.

dmills
You all know my answer. And it's not even close.

The Nuul
Originally posted by dmills
You all know my answer. And it's not even close.

Supes?

dmills
Originally posted by The Nuul
Supes? LULZ. ME think Supes UNDERrated? Surely you jest?

The Nuul
dur313

Well, its not Nova and thats forsure.

dmills
Originally posted by The Nuul
dur313

Well, its not Nova and thats forsure. laughing Naaaah, it's not Nova.

All joking aside, most characters are rated about where they should be in a KMC PIS free enviornment. It's just that some characters have 4-5 people on here that wank hard for them, thus giving an impression that they are overrated.

These are the ppl that turn what probably should be a 4-5 page thread into a 40 page thread.

Mshinu
From the list, Darkseid.

I don`t think Nova is underrated.. most ppl recognize him as around supes level.

Apocalypse is pretty underrated.

Bentley
Yeah, Apocalypse IS very underrated, Darkseid is. Puck certainly is. I think the others range very differently depending on the posters.

The Nuul
Because Apoc sucks.

TheTyrant
From that list I would say Hulk and then Nova.

753
darkseid and hulk

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by The Nuul
PIS are in comics and not on KMC. Thats why. PIS doesn't explain 1000's of published comics.

And the same PIS that you want to project onto Hulk is the same PIS you should project onto Mongul, Shaggy Man, every version of Doomsday, Kurse, Hercules, Juggernaut and every other top class non-flying brick that gets the benefit of the doubt for matching or kicking the crap out of top tiers.

Double-standard is double-standard.

The Nuul
But Doomsday is not KOing the Spectre or Grundy is not beating up Dr Fate.

Anyways.....Why do I bother with you. Now on ignore.

Galan007
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
darkseid is the only underatted there
everone else is over rated at times What the...

I actually agree with you. none

dmills
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
PIS doesn't explain 1000's of published comics.

And the same PIS that you want to project onto Hulk is the same PIS you should project onto Mongul, Shaggy Man, every version of Doomsday, Kurse, Hercules, Juggernaut and every other top class non-flying brick that gets the benefit of the doubt for matching or kicking the crap out of top tiers.

Double-standard is double-standard. Fair enough. But to my knowledge of the ppl on your list only Hulk and perhaps Juggz seem to have the plot powers that drive everyone here so crazy.

The Nuul
DS kicks ass as long as hes not around Supes.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by dmills
Fair enough. But to my knowledge of the ppl on your list only Hulk and perhaps Juggz seem to have the plot powers that drive everyone here so crazy. BS. People look at a brick like Doomday kicking the crap out Superman and they just shrug it off, because well... he's just that strong.

Or Kurse kicking the crap out of Thor and they just shrug it off.

The only difference is, Hulk is as much a pop culture icon and is a fan-favorite. And you throw two fan-favorites against each other and people start looking for any excuse to act like there's some distinction.

Hulk has hundreds of fights against all sorts of foes. People look at the highest levels of energy projection one-dimensionally and assume auto-win. People look at the highest levels of superspeed one-dimensionally and assume auto-win. People assume the highest levels of magic one-dimensionally and assume auto-win. People look at the highest levels of telepathy one-dimensionally and assume auto-win. People look at the highest levels of durability one-dimensionally and assume auto-win.

People look at the highest levels of strength and what do they assume?

"He can't fly. He auto-loses."Originally posted by The Nuul
But Doomsday is not KOing the Spectre or Grundy is not beating up Dr Fate.

Anyways.....Why do I bother with you. Now on ignore. Try finding a poster that says Hulk KOs Spectre or Grundy beats up Dr Fate. Sh1tty straw-man.

You ignore the comics. Par for the course. Peace.

The Nuul
Hulk underrated is a joke when Pak and Loeb are on the titles, WWH anyone? Hes wanked so damn hard.

Nova and Puck by far are the most underrated in this thread. They are never in the spot light and no one cares enough but they arent bad characters that do alright.

TheTyrant
Why the hell would you put OneDumbG0 on ignore? One of the best posters on this site without a doubt.

dmills
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
BS. People look at a brick like Doomday kicking the crap out Superman and they just shrug it off, because well... he's just that strong.

Or Kurse kicking the crap out of Thor and they just shrug it off.

The only difference is, Hulk is as much a pop culture icon and is a fan-favorite. And you throw two fan-favorites against each other and people start looking for any excuse to act like there's some distinction.

Hulk has hundreds of fights against all sorts of foes. People look at the highest levels of energy projection one-dimensionally and assume auto-win. People look at the highest levels of superspeed one-dimensionally and assume auto-win. People assume the highest levels of magic one-dimensionally and assume auto-win. People look at the highest levels of telepathy one-dimensionally and assume auto-win. People look at the highest levels of durability one-dimensionally and assume auto-win.

People look at the highest levels of strength and what do they assume?

"He can't fly. He auto-loses." Try finding a poster that says Hulk KOs Spectre or Grundy beats up Dr Fate. Sh1tty straw-man.

You ignore the comics. Par for the course. Peace. That's prolly because, well compared to the other powers you listed, super strength is the lowest on the totum pole. IMO of course.

The Nuul
Originally posted by TheTyrant
Why the hell would you put OneDumbG0 on ignore? One of the best posters on this site without a doubt.

dur313

zeel
Originally posted by Bentley
... Among this characters:

But first and foremost, keep it civil.


Superman
Nova
Kyle Rayner
Batman
Darkseid
Puck
Hulk
Silver Surfer


Try to explain your answer (although I know most of you won't smile )


the only 2 really overrated are batman and superman by a mile. Darky is so underrated its not funny.

The Nuul
Originally posted by zeel
the only 2 really overrated are batman and superman by a mile. Darky is so underrated its not funny.




Key word "underrated"

zeel
Originally posted by The Nuul
Key word "underrated"


seen people comapring superman to thanos and even odin. seen the bat kick hurt ones like darksied yet captian american would prolly beat batman.


no they are both overrated and thats the reason supes is the most hated hero on KMC, thanos is a distant second. Now once you get past the BS and the fanboyism supes is a great character as well as batman=)

The Nuul
WTF?

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by dmills
That's prolly because, well compared to the other powers you listed, super strength is the lowest on the totum pole. IMO of course. And this revolves right back to the idea of PIS.

Characters with the highest levels of speed end up, for some reason, being imbued with relative super durability or relative super strength. Instead of, y'know... running at half the speed of light and being punched and getting their body split to pieces. No. That'd be too easy... his speed somehow needs to compensate for super durability also... and even super strength... with a "speed aura." Not dumb at all.

After all... when you have the highest levels of speed and you're confronted with a variety of problems... just pour on more speed and the problem will be solved.... somehow.

People look at Hulk's dynamic strength. It ends up being the basis for his super healing, his super durability, his relative super agility, even his super adaptability. Hell... he can "punch" energy or destroy time barriers that even Kang couldn't get through.

After all... when you have the highest levels of strength and you're confronted with a variety of problems... just pour on more strength and the problem will be solved... somehow.



Former gets the complete benefit of the doubt. The latter, none. Unless it's Doomsday or Kurse or whomever doesn't headline their own long-standing title. Not suspicious or arbitrary at all...

The Nuul
Doomsday or Kurse are still not KOing or beating people like Spectre, or Galactus. But yet some retarted writers hop on Hulk then hes beating people like Watcher, Strange/Zom and more people like that with PIS.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Galan007
What the...

I actually agree with you. none
Frightens me too.

Naija boy
Number 1 is definitely hulk. He does get a really bad wrap on kmc especially compared to other less popular characters with his same type of powerset.

After hulk its probably Nova.

The Nuul
Originally posted by Naija boy
Number 1 is definitely hulk. He does get a really bad wrap on kmc especially compared to other less popular characters with his same type of powerset.

After hulk its probably Nova.
WWH and Rulk are PIS crap fest. No other brick shows it more than he does.

People dont like Hulk because of retarted writers like Loeb and Pak.

dmills
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And this revolves right back to the idea of PIS.

Characters with the highest levels of speed end up, for some reason, being imbued with relative super durability or relative super strength. Instead of, y'know... running at half the speed of light and being punched and getting their body split to pieces. No. That'd be too easy... his speed somehow needs to compensate for super durability also... and even super strength... with a "speed aura." Not dumb at all.

After all... when you have the highest levels of speed and you're confronted with a variety of problems... just pour on more speed and the problem will be solved.... somehow.

People look at Hulk's dynamic strength. It ends up being the basis for his super healing, his super durability, his relative super agility, even his super adaptability. Hell... he can "punch" energy or destroy time barriers that even Kang couldn't get through.

After all... when you have the highest levels of strength and you're confronted with a variety of problems... just pour on more strength and the problem will be solved... somehow.



Former gets the complete benefit of the doubt. The latter, none. Unless it's Doomsday or Kurse or whomever doesn't headline their own long-standing title. Not suspicious or arbitrary at all... The medium requires a certain willing suspension of disbelief. I guess some feats -relative to the powerset- are more "believable" then others.

janus77
I saw the irrational hatred a sizeable contingent here had towards Hulk long before Loeb or even World War Hulk.

In WWH, the only fight that was off was the Strange/Zom fight, and not because Hulk KO'ed him but because Strange chose that particular avenue of approach when he had better options.

Loeb's stuff has been all over the place, but in regards to Hulk, if anything he's remained well within himself. he got drained by Rulk and he got killed by Rulk, so not really seeing how Loeb's inflated Hulk's rep...

but it is quite weird that a band of people on KMC vocally and with a lot of feeling, express hatred towards the character and say with an almost religious convition that he would lose (against whoever he is pitted) on every versus thread he makes an appearance.

doomsday49
Originally posted by janus77


but it is quite weird that a band of people on KMC vocally and with a lot of feeling, express hatred towards the character and say with an almost religious convition that he would lose (against whoever he is pitted) on every versus thread he makes an appearance.

true. it's call geekdom.

i noticed hulk is always getting shitted on. usually its on some geeky/nerdy shit like "writers did this, writers did that" (see that one kid's post a couple of posts up). but really they just mad cause their favorite character would probably get whoop.

amnesia
Not hulk, that's for sure.

janus77
yeah true but still ... I enjoy reading Banner/Hulk (Doom, Surfer and now increasingly IronMan) stuff a lot but, can't really put that kind of emotional attachment to something so ultimately trivial... it's supposed to be fun, mildly creative and escapist no?

the kind of emotions exhibited by some people, when it comes to Hulk, leave me feeling they might be a little unhinged no expression

doomsday49
Originally posted by janus77
it's supposed to be fun, mildly creative and escapist no?

|

thumb up


but the arguments are pretty damn entertaining to read!

dmills
Originally posted by doomsday49
thumb up


but the arguments are pretty damn entertaining to read! On the flipside you have ppl that defend the Hulk as if he were their first born. It all evens out in the end.

Harbinger
Nova, even though he's been getting a lot of love from a few posters for a while.

To throw in another that isn't on the list, I'd say Wonder Woman.

Naija boy
Originally posted by The Nuul
WWH and Rulk are PIS crap fest. No other brick shows it more than he does.

People dont like Hulk because of retarted writers like Loeb and Pak.

I couldnt care less about why people hate the hulk. Hate for a character isnt justification for continuously looking for ways to unfairly downplay everything the character does. Ive said this about the Sentry many times and the same goes for the hulk.

Devron87
Originally posted by janus77
I saw the irrational hatred a sizeable contingent here had towards Hulk long before Loeb or even World War Hulk.

In WWH, the only fight that was off was the Strange/Zom fight, and not because Hulk KO'ed him but because Strange chose that particular avenue of approach when he had better options.

Loeb's stuff has been all over the place, but in regards to Hulk, if anything he's remained well within himself. he got drained by Rulk and he got killed by Rulk, so not really seeing how Loeb's inflated Hulk's rep...

but it is quite weird that a band of people on KMC vocally and with a lot of feeling, express hatred towards the character and say with an almost religious convition that he would lose (against whoever he is pitted) on every versus thread he makes an appearance.


thumb up most realistic post in this thread,co-signed..........

dmills
Ok so ,if we all want to butthurt over the Hulks percieved lack of respect on KMC, then I nominate Wolverine. I can't think of a single character who's feats get pissed on more than his on KMC.

BUSTER1
Originally posted by dmills
Ok so ,if we all want to butthurt over the Hulks percieved lack of respect on KMC, then I nominate Wolverine. I can't think of a single character who's feats get pissed on more than his on KMC.

Hulk does get underated on here. People regard him as a 1 dimensional brick, who should be beaten up by anyone with 50ton strength or more who can fight a bit. Neary 50 years of storytelling show he is a lot more.

amnesia
Originally posted by dmills
Ok so ,if we all want to butthurt over the Hulks percieved lack of respect on KMC, then I nominate Wolverine. I can't think of a single character who's feats get pissed on more than his on KMC.



Your kidding, right?

The Nuul
Originally posted by BUSTER1
Hulk does get underated on here. People regard him as a 1 dimensional brick, who should be beaten up by anyone with 50ton strength or more who can fight a bit. Neary 50 years of storytelling show he is a lot more.

HE IS a one dimensional brick and hes one of the most overrated on this board because of morons like Pak/Leob.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by The Nuul
HE IS a one dimensional brick and hes one of the most overrated on this board because of morons like Pak or Leob.

Loeb's Hulk couldn't even heal from one stab stick out tongue

The Nuul
But KOed TheWatcher.

King Castle
rhino is very under rated on every forum i go.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by The Nuul
But KOed TheWatcher.

That was Rulk sneer

Originally posted by King Castle
rhino is very under rated on every forum i go.

Because he gets owned by everyone. Even Misty Knight has beaten the shit out of him...

BUSTER1
Originally posted by The Nuul
HE IS a one dimensional brick and hes one of the most overrated on this board because of morons like Pak/Leob.

1 dimensional?? How so? Please explain.

carver9
Hulk is the most underated on the forum. No matter who he fought, no matter who he has defeated, no matter what he has done on panel in regards to his versatility, the only people that he get wins against is people like Thing and Herc.

Hulk IS the most hated on the forum and when you vote for him, people THEN say that you have hate for the character that he is pitted against. I would say Wolverine is number 2 and then Nova.

And why would ANYONE put onedumb on ignore, he IS the best poster on KMC, next to Darth.

The Nuul
Originally posted by BUSTER1
1 dimensional?? How so? Please explain.

What does Hulk do?

Jumps, tanks and smashes people. He cannot fly or has any extra powers. Absorbing Man is not a one dimensional brick.

carver9
Originally posted by The Nuul
What does Hulk do?

Jumps, tanks and smashes people. He cannot fly or have any extra powers. Absorbing Man is not a one dimensional brick.

He can ADAPT to almost any situation LIIIIKE, him not being able to breath under water and THEN grows gills out of no where. His AMPING abilities. Him being able to hit intagible people; super speed; healing factor; showed that he has energy output during WWH arc.

The list goes on.

BUSTER1
Originally posted by The Nuul
What does Hulk do?

Jumps, tanks and smashes people. He cannot fly or have any extra powers. Absorbing Man is not a one dimensional brick.

His anger amps strength, stamina and durability. He has a "perfect aim" ability the enables him to hit much faster foes, and throw missiles with perfect accuracy. His body can adapt so he can breathe underwater, and even go without oxygen is space.
Would you call Classic Juggernaut a 1 dimensional brick, as he can't fly either?

Cubey
Dont hate on Hulk.

Colossus-Big C
yea hulk is underated
number 2 imo is Apocolypse

if savage hulk can give thor alot trouble
even with thor using range attacks
beat gladiator and all the other major feats

WWH beats any herald level
even thanos doesnt want to fight hulk

The Nuul
Originally posted by BUSTER1
His anger amps strength, stamina and durability. He has a "perfect aim" ability the enables him to hit much faster foes, and throw missiles with perfect accuracy. His body can adapt so he can breathe underwater, and even go without oxygen is space.
Would you call Classic Juggernaut a 1 dimensional brick, as he can't fly either?

Yes, Juggs is. I expect Hulk to breath under water and in space because of his HF. Hes still a one dimensional brick. But this is not what this thread is about.


Hulks still overrated.

BUSTER1
Originally posted by The Nuul
Yes, Juggs is. I expect Hulk to breath under water and in space because of his HF. Hes still a one dimensional brick. But this is not what this thread is about.


Hulks still overrated.

No he isn't.
And I will explain why.

amnesia

BUSTER1

carver9
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
yea hulk is underated
number 2 imo is Apocolypse

if savage hulk can give thor alot trouble
even with thor using range attacks
beat gladiator and all the other major feats

WWH beats any herald level
even thanos doesnt want to fight hulk

I agree with WWH beating any herald (except Surfer).

Harbinger

The Nuul
Originally posted by Harbinger
Not to take anything away from the post, but couldn't you say the same thing about most any popular character? Guys like Superman, Wolverine, etc. all get hyped to all hell on this forum by different groups of people. I agree with the overall sentiment of what ZM said in referene to Hulk, but he isn't unique in that regard.

Correct and thats my point A+ class characters are not underrated but are overrated most of the time.

Colossus-Big C
lol at hulk punching back into reality
ive heard that hulks healing factor could heal him from being wiped from existance

hes still underatted though

dmills
Originally posted by carver9
I agree with WWH beating any herald (except Surfer). This is exhibit A as to why ppl hate on the Hulk. WWH beats any herald level being except Surfer. This is ridiculous.

The Nuul
Originally posted by dmills
This is exhibit A as to why ppl hate on the Hulk. WWH beats any herald level being except Surfer. This is ridiculous.

Aye, this crap and PIS shit ass writing is why people dont like Hulk. AND hes overrated.

Colossus-Big C
umm
go look up any list of hated characters

superman is always #1 with hulk nowhere to be found

The Nuul
Supes and Hulk are the most hated and loved. Theres no way that they are underrated.

BUSTER1
Originally posted by The Nuul
Supes and Hulk are the most hated and loved. Theres no way that they are underrated.

How are they overrated??

carver9
Originally posted by dmills
This is exhibit A as to why ppl hate on the Hulk. WWH beats any herald level being except Surfer. This is ridiculous.

I'm going by showings. I'm not the type to ignore what happens on panel to help my arguments. EVERYTHING that I say, I base it off of everything that has been shown in a comic.

Philosophía
It's clearly Silver Surfer.

amnesia
Yes, it is.

Cubey
Originally posted by The Nuul
Supes and Hulk are the most hated and loved. Theres no way that they are underrated.

Same for Thor.

amnesia
Originally posted by Cubey
Same for Thor.


Not really... Thor isn't very popular.

The Nuul
Yeah, not a lot of people know who comic Thor is nor know what he looks like. Almost everyone including non comic fans knows Hulk and Supes.

Cubey
Yeah I know. I meant comic readers, such as the people on this board.

Badabing
Originally posted by carver9
I'm going by showings. I'm not the type to ignore what happens on panel to help my arguments. EVERYTHING that I say, I base it off of everything that has been shown in a comic. mmm

De-powered Hulk >>>> de-powered Surfer on Sakaar.

That means WWH >>>> Surfer. 131

durhulk

753
I've come to believe the super skrull is getting far less respect than he is due.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by amnesia
Not really... Thor isn't very popular. no expression

WTF are you talking about?Thor is the forum favorite.

amnesia
Originally posted by Black bolt z
no expression

WTF are you talking about?Thor is the forum favorite.


People who doesn't read comics don't know about Thor. It's strange though, seeing as he is one of the best written characters in comics.

Konton
I think Storm is underrated here. Mostly because of 2damnloud.

Bentley
I actually like Storm because she has a powerset so open its beautiful. Creative powersets like that are far in between and rarely as temathic -Metamorpho, Hank Hawksmoor are among the few matching it-.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Right answer: Hulk.

If he was half as helpless as posters here thinks he is against foes that he's pitted against regularly on KMC, he wouldn't have lasted twenty issues in comics.

kgkg
Hulk

Warlord
in these forums i'd say Martian Manhunter by far

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