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Prove me wrong and write ME a decent Superman story....otherwise...I'm grounding Superman titles with your name on it. Stop making Superman so DAMN preachy!

DAMN IT! First it was Dumbshit Morrison on Batman and now it's JMS on Superman....F ck YOU DC! Stop caring about names to put on covers and gives us the DAMN writers that can actually write the characters.

Thanks to Legacies and Len Wein made Superman enjoyable this month. JMS take notes!

The tribute and homeage from Wein to Seigel was GORGEOUS! Yes! YES! THAT'S THE SUPERMAN I WANT.

Its Marvel, they plant the writers to they can destroy your precious DC and just to piss you off.

This is payback for Jeph Loeb, isn't it?

Two words GIANT SPIDER
LOL

Originally posted by WanderingDroid
Prove me wrong and write ME a decent Superman story....otherwise...I'm grounding Superman titles with your name on it. Stop making Superman so DAMN preachy!

DAMN IT! First it was Dumbshit Morrison on Batman and now it's JMS on Superman....F ck YOU DC! Stop caring about names to put on covers and gives us the DAMN writers that can actually write the characters.

Thanks to Legacies and Len Wein made Superman enjoyable this month. JMS take notes!

The tribute and homeage from Wein to Seigel was GORGEOUS! Yes! YES! THAT'S THE SUPERMAN I WANT.


So maybe it's time to re-address the quotes in your signature?...

Honestly, WD? I think you're WAY off base.

I just had the chance to read 701 and 702, and I think they more than fit the definition of a "decent" Superman story.

JMS is writing a Superman that is more humanised than any i've seen in a long time. He has OPINIONS. He isn't just staring bad guys down. He likes a damn sandwich. He can be corny as hell, but what person isn't every so often?

JMS reminded us that Superman is a great orator (like he should be), but he also made him actually sound like a person, not a soundbox.

Yet when it's time to remind us that he's powerful, JMS does it plenty. That little store-room cleaning was fast as hell, and the hv drug thing was pitch perfect.

if anything, I'm really optimistic about what JMS is doing on Superman, and while it's off to a slow start, it's already lightyears ahead of the turds that Robinson gave us. JMS gets Superman, imo.

Like that he got rid of the vegetarian thing too.

I'll give you that it is change from what Robinson was doing...but that's it! A change...and change doesn't always means better (see Obama) hmphh! Ignoring politics...

I think people like two issue of JMS because of that...they're free from the clutches of Robinson. But do read Legacies if you can...

Also, I do admit that it isn't easy to write Superman...just like Batman both are complicated. However, when they go preachy (specially Batman and guns) you get turn off.

I haven't quit yet...but I'm not going to drink the JMS kool aid so fast.

Originally posted by roughrider
So maybe it's time to re-address the quotes in your signature?...

I'm just givin DC some tough love. Marvel could get some love too if they go back to the 80s. Yeah, like that is going to happen.

Eddies art is horrible.

Originally posted by WanderingDroid
I'll give you that it is change from what Robinson was doing...but that's it! A change...and change doesn't always means better (see Obama) hmphh! Ignoring politics...

I think people like two issue of JMS because of that...they're free from the clutches of Robinson. But do read Legacies if you can...

Also, I do admit that it isn't easy to write Superman...just like Batman both are complicated. However, when they go preachy (specially Batman and guns) you get turn off.

I haven't quit yet...but I'm not going to drink the JMS kool aid so fast.

it's not JUST a change, though. JMS has respect for Superman. That's already an improvement.

I'll give Legacies a look.

Preachy? He didn't seem that preachy to me.

If you hadn't quit yet, then why make this thread?

Originally posted by -Pr-


If you hadn't quit yet, then why make this thread?

To read other people's opinions.

People seem to hate Robinson's work on War Of The Superman, but I found it pretty readable.

Originally posted by WanderingDroid
To read other people's opinions.

ok then.

Originally posted by roughrider
People seem to hate Robinson's work on War Of The Superman, but I found it pretty readable.

it's his handling of superman, not his storytelling.

Originally posted by WanderingDroid

Marvel could get some love too if they go back to the 80s. Yeah, like that is going to happen.

Stop living in the past that might help.

I have to admit, this current direction the title is going isn't really my cup of tea. If they were to introduce some kind of lasting plot or storyline it would be much better IMO. Although I am looking forward to what Batman is going to say to him in the next issue.

Originally posted by Kazenji
Stop living in the past that might help.

Nah, thats one of his goals in life is to hate Marvel.

Don't worry about JMS. The pattern of his last several years in comics is (1) He's very late, and (2) He doesn't stay on a title that long.

Originally posted by Kazenji
Stop living in the past that might help.

What will help you is a visit to the past. It will wash away those stains from today...and maybe...just maybe...if you get luck you will see things my way.


Originally posted by The Nuul
Nah, thats one of his goals in life is to hate Marvel.

Yor Juzz HURTz Modern Warfare 2 PWN3d U! And so will Black Ops.

I think JMS can still deliver on Superman, its just the entire premise of this story arc is contrived.

And I feel obligated to mention that while you may be felling nostalgic for 80s Marvel (lol), in the past 10 years at we have seen seminal books for dozens of Marvel characters, some of which are easily the best runs in entire history these characters. Daredevil, Wolverine, Thor, Iron Fist, Captain America, Iron-man all have had totally amazing runs recently with some amazing creative talents... hell even Spider-man has been consistently great since OMD. Sure 9 times out of 10 whatever is going on with the X-Men sucks (and even the X-Men had Astonishing X-Men 6 years ago), but that is pretty much the only title at Marvel worse off then it was in the 80s. Other than All-Star Superman and Johns on Green Lantern there hasn't really been any story arcs that I would call seminal (Rucka's Batwoman maybe but I'm not sure that Katherine Kane is a character that has the legs for run to be anything other than a well written footnote in DC's history).

And MW2 sucked balls... but Black Ops does look pretty sweet.

Originally posted by WanderingDroid
What will help you is a visit to the past. It will wash away those stains from today...and maybe...just maybe...if you get luck you will see things my way.

Oh well you keep going on with your Shit fetish...

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I think JMS can still deliver on Superman, its just the entire premise of this story arc is contrived.

And I feel obligated to mention that while you may be felling nostalgic for 80s Marvel (lol), in the past 10 years at we have seen seminal books for dozens of Marvel characters, some of which are easily the best runs in entire history these characters. Daredevil, Wolverine, Thor, Iron Fist, Captain America, Iron-man all have had totally amazing runs recently with some amazing creative talents... hell even Spider-man has been consistently great since OMD. Sure 9 times out of 10 whatever is going on with the X-Men sucks (and even the X-Men had Astonishing X-Men 6 years ago), but that is pretty much the only title at Marvel worse off then it was in the 80s. Other than All-Star Superman and Johns on Green Lantern there hasn't really been any story arcs that I would call seminal (Rucka's Batwoman maybe but I'm not sure that Katherine Kane is a character that has the legs for run to be anything other than a well written footnote in DC's history).

And MW2 sucked balls... but Black Ops does look pretty sweet.

Winnick's Green Arrow and Red Hood would be there too, imo.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Winnick's Green Arrow and Red Hood would be there too, imo.

I would say you are crazy because everything Winnick has ever touched has turned to crap... IMO

His Green Arrow wasn't as bad as his Titans run, but it wasn't good by any stretch of the imagination and it certainly wasn't seminal.

To each his own though I guess.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I would say you are crazy because everything Winnick has ever touched has turned to crap... IMO

His Green Arrow wasn't as bad as his Titans run, but it wasn't good by any stretch of the imagination and it certainly wasn't seminal.

To each his own though I guess.

Did you read his run on Batman?

If not, i suggest you rethink your stance until you do.

I thought Under the Red Hood was mediocre (which I'm pretty sure was the general consensus), the animated film was much, much better than the actual run.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I thought Under the Red Hood was mediocre (which I'm pretty sure was the general consensus), the animated film was much, much better than the actual run.

I have to disagree. I think it's a great run, and i think Winnick gets far too much shit that he doesn't deserve.

He wrote the animated film too, iirc.

I was going to say Superman hasn't had a great arc this decade - certainly not in comparison to all the Doomsday/Cyborg related stuff in the 90's - until I remembered For Tomorrow.
Where is Brian Azzarrello anyway?

Originally posted by roughrider
I was going to say Superman hasn't had a great arc this decade - certainly not in comparison to all the Doomsday/Cyborg related stuff in the 90's - until I remembered For Tomorrow.
Where is Brian Azzarrello anyway?

Secret Origin, Our Worlds at War, Brainiac, Last Son, The Journey, Godfall?

Originally posted by -Pr-
I have to disagree. I think it's a great run, and i think Winnick gets far too much shit that he doesn't deserve.



The thing that makes Winnick more on the edge of acceptance it's that he writes Jason as a Antagonist more than an A-hole. This is why Winnick wins in the Batman character area over Morrison. Take Damian for instance....I have NEVER seen a character get shove down the reader's throats as Morrison does with Damian. He's not likeable (only to fanboys) and he is not antigonistic but more of a spoil annoying brat. But somehow DC wants the readers to accept him. I can't speak for other Batman fans...but I can't accept him. No matter how much the character gets the spotlight in every story....he's just digestable.

Winnick took quite a challenge by taking on Jason. He knew that fans weren't so acceptable...so instead of shoving him down our throats...he shove him straight to the Antagonist level. He belongs there....to conclude....Jason is exactly what antagonist Batman character should be...whereas Damian is the A-hole spoil brat that needs to just go away.

But...what do I know? Been a Batman fan for nearly 23 years and like it or not Morrison, DC, and the Fanboys decide how Batman should be like....yep.

Superman, anyone?

Originally posted by WanderingDroid
The thing that makes Winnick more on the edge of acceptance it's that he writes Jason as a Antagonist more than an A-hole. This is why Winnick wins in the Batman character area over Morrison. Take Damian for instance....I have NEVER seen a character get shove down the reader's throats as Morrison does with Damian. He's not likeable (only to fanboys) and he is not antigonistic but more of a spoil annoying brat. But somehow DC wants the readers to accept him. I can't speak for other Batman fans...but I can't accept him. No matter how much the character gets the spotlight in every story....he's just digestable.

Winnick took quite a challenge by taking on Jason. He knew that fans weren't so acceptable...so instead of shoving him down our throats...he shove him straight to the Antagonist level. He belongs there....to conclude....Jason is exactly what antagonist Batman character should be...whereas Damian is the A-hole spoil brat that needs to just go away.

But...what do I know? Been a Batman fan for nearly 23 years and like it or not Morrison, DC, and the Fanboys decide how Batman should be like....yep.

Superman, anyone?

you couldn't resist mentioning morrison?

You know he eventually will pop out in this thread when someone brings out All Star Superman....it's going to happen. Might as well get my thoughts out of the way.

Anywhoo....how you like Bizzaro Supergirl?

Originally posted by WanderingDroid
You know he eventually will pop out in this thread when someone brings out All Star Superman....it's going to happen. Might as well get my thoughts out of the way.

Anywhoo....how you like Bizzaro Supergirl?

i don't really read Supergirl. it's not that i don't like it, it's just not on my pull list. i'd give it a read if i was bored...

besides, luthor with his lois sexbot is more interesting to me lol...

Originally posted by -Pr-
Secret Origin, Our Worlds at War, Brainiac, Last Son, The Journey, Godfall?

I mean now.

Originally posted by roughrider
I mean now.

now what?

Originally posted by -Pr-
now what?

Is he doing anything at DC right now?

Originally posted by roughrider
Is he doing anything at DC right now?

Secret Origin is still running. Brainiac and Last Son were very recent. The oldest one there is Our Worlds at War, which was in 2001. The rest were after that.

He's doing First Wave at DC...which btw is pretty good! Must read!

Winnick did honestly *great* stuff on EXiles (over at Marvel) and Green Lantern.



IMO he works better over in Batgirl or Red Robin. When bouncing with Steph he can actually be fun.

Originally posted by WanderingDroid
The thing that makes Winnick more on the edge of acceptance it's that he writes Jason as a Antagonist more than an A-hole. This is why Winnick wins in the Batman character area over Morrison. Take Damian for instance....I have NEVER seen a character get shove down the reader's throats as Morrison does with Damian. He's not likeable (only to fanboys) and he is not antigonistic but more of a spoil annoying brat. But somehow DC wants the readers to accept him. I can't speak for other Batman fans...but I can't accept him. No matter how much the character gets the spotlight in every story....he's just digestable.

Winnick took quite a challenge by taking on Jason. He knew that fans weren't so acceptable...so instead of shoving him down our throats...he shove him straight to the Antagonist level. He belongs there....to conclude....Jason is exactly what antagonist Batman character should be...whereas Damian is the A-hole spoil brat that needs to just go away.

But...what do I know? Been a Batman fan for nearly 23 years and like it or not Morrison, DC, and the Fanboys decide how Batman should be like....yep.



All the work done on Batman the past decade by good writers - Brian Azzarello, Paul Dini, Judd Winick, Ed Brubaker (and yes, Jeph Loeb) -
Grant Morrison is at the bottom of the list. I want street level crime fighting, not his kind of crazy. Arkham Asylum was two decades ago; that was his good Batman work.

I'm pretty neutral when it comes to Damian. I don't particularly like or dislike him.

Who else has read Superman: Earth One by JMS?

I was underwhelmed.

You get to start over with Superman, and he does this safe approach? No even changing the costume a little?
And many ideas seemed recycled out of his Supreme Power days.

I read it. I too was underwhelmed.

I was not whelmed at all. Let's hope the Batman story will be better.

The good news is he's off Superman and Wonder Woman.

Superman especially, since what he was just doing is wretched, but the new WW writer also seems like they'll put a lot more effort into it than JMS did.

The main thing i dislike about all this is the fact that all the storylines JMS had laid out are still being put in to effect, but by different writers.

I have to say I am very disappointed in JMS. I honestly thought he had more class than this.

Originally posted by Q99
The good news is he's off Superman and Wonder Woman.

Superman especially, since what he was just doing is wretched, but the new WW writer also seems like they'll put a lot more effort into it than JMS did.

Wow - he's off already?

So the pattern continues from his last few years at Marvel Comics; skittish and late. He's probably got more Movie & TV projects taking up his time.