Zatanna vs Raven

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Zatanna4life
Zatanna vs Raven in a fight, who do you think would win.

- I've been having this debate with a friend, I'm interested in hearing different points of view.

Here's how we've been going at it; I think Zee can stop Raven with just one word, like "pots" or "ekohc". But she thinks Raven will be able to close Zatanna's mouth or incapacitate her or mind-rape her. However, Zee saying these one word attacks can take less than half a second. Zatanna is fast enough to stop bullets. Or are Raven thought attacks faster?

Let me know what ya'll think! smile

Harbinger
Z.

Zatanna4life
Originally posted by Harbinger
Z.

Desaad
Zatanna has always been a bit of a plot device character, but lately they've been flatly stating that she's one of the most powerful magical beings on the DC Earth.

So she wins, HARD. Raven's offensive powers are weak sauce.

Zatanna4life
Originally posted by Desaad
Zatanna has always been a bit of a plot device character, but lately they've been flatly stating that she's one of the most powerful magical beings on the DC Earth.

So she wins, HARD. Raven's offensive powers are weak sauce.


Zatanna's also been beaten by a 15 year old girl (an unarmed Speedy)

Desaad
Raven tends to monologue anyway.

Zatanna4life
I don't think that's a really good point, since she knows about zatanna's powers and would have to stop her quickly. :/

Desaad
I'm not convinced her powers would let her take Zatanna out, even if she reacted immediately.

Zatanna4life
What defense does Zee have? Remember when speedy beat her up easily? and she was unarmed. What defense does Zatanna have against Raven's soul self?

WHAT IF: Raven teleports behind Zatanna easily touches her head with her finger and fills her mind with all the horrors of Azarath. And Zee has a bloody seizure and falls flat.

chomperx9
raven wins just incase you show the thread to your friend.

Zatanna4life
this is what I was talking about.

Lord_Talron
i think z wins TBH!

Zatanna4life
Originally posted by Lord_Talron
i think z wins TBH!

Lord_Talron
i dont see what i need to add to the previous posters, just letting people know what i think

Zatanna4life
there has not been any posters (yet) to give a good enough argument as to why she would win. That's why I wanted you to expand on your answer. :/

Prep-Man
Zatanna.

Konton
Raven's empathy isn't as powerful as J'onn's telepathy and Zatanna has proven capable of locking him out on more than one occasion.

As for the soul self, it has to manifest and then make it's way to Zatanna to do anything. Zatanna's magic, on the other hand, is instantaneous.

Zee wins 10/10.

Dark Raven is a different story.

Prep-Man
Originally posted by Konton
Raven's empathy isn't as powerful as J'onn's telepathy and Zatanna has proven capable of locking him out on more than one occasion.

As for the soul self, it has to manifest and then make it's way to Zatanna to do anything. Zatanna's magic, on the other hand, is instantaneous.

Zee wins 10/10.

Dark Raven is a different story.

What is Dark Raven?

Zatanna4life
Originally posted by Konton
Raven's empathy isn't as powerful as J'onn's telepathy and Zatanna has proven capable of locking him out on more than one occasion.

As for the soul self, it has to manifest and then make it's way to Zatanna to do anything. Zatanna's magic, on the other hand, is instantaneous.

Zee wins 10/10.

Dark Raven is a different story.


She may have a telepathy resistance but empathy is different. And how is her magic instant when she has to speak it?

iceman24567
Z for the the solid majority

Konton
Empathy is different yes, but it's not like Zatanna's telepathy isn't mystical in nature either. After recently punking that demon in his own dream realm I'm entirely certain Raven isn't doing any harm here.

Her magic is instantaneous after the spell is cast. She says pots and then they pots. Conversely, Raven has to draw out her spirit and then lunge it forward.

Zatanna was able to summon an audience of Circe and Spectre under her own power. Raven is outclassed.

@ Prep

Dark Raven as in Raven under Trigon's influence. Under his influence her power fluctuates on the upscale and she actually demonstrates powerful magic during these times.

It could also be taken to mean Titans of Tomorrow Raven, her alternate future incarnation that was able to completely drain the United States of emotion or somesuch. Not what I was talking about though.

SamZED
Didn't DR beat the Titans within a second the last time she appeared? Ordinary Raven probably loses becase of her CIS.

tideoftime
Generally speaking, Z takes a solid majority. But Raven can make some wins. Not many. But some circumstantial wins are very possible. Z's raw power and finesse is pretty much a given; Raven's capable of taking advantage of even the slightest hesitation on Z's part (and, as others have said, Z's power is pretty much a "plot driven" thing, hence allowing for Raven getting the drop via teleportation and soul-self -- not a given, by any means, but still a distinct possibility).

Konton
Originally posted by SamZED
Didn't DR beat the Titans within a second the last time she appeared? Ordinary Raven probably loses becase of her CIS.

Last time she appeared she summoned massive armies of demons, beat Donna Troy in head to head (apparent strength boost in DR form, this was addressed in the issue), and possessed multiple psychics simultaneously with the soul self.

Ordinary Raven feels Zatanna's determination and falls to the floor mumbling something about psychic backlash.

SamZED
Originally posted by Konton
Last time she appeared she summoned massive armies of demons, beat Donna Troy in head to head (apparent strength boost in DR form, this was addressed in the issue), and possessed multiple psychics simultaneously with the soul self.

Ordinary Raven feels Zatanna's determination and falls to the floor mumbling something about psychic backlash. Woah! When did that happen? The last time I remember her going evil was when her new siblings appeared. Also normal Raven was always superhuman physically imo, its just she never displays it. But she's durable enough to get slammed headfirst through a 3 foot-thick brickwall and get up like nothing happened.

freakybinx
raven wins this with ease

Lord_Talron
because the only think you know about zatanna is from the tv series, right?

Zatanna4life
Originally posted by Konton
Empathy is different yes, but it's not like Zatanna's telepathy isn't mystical in nature either. After recently punking that demon in his own dream realm I'm entirely certain Raven isn't doing any harm here.

Her magic is instantaneous after the spell is cast. She says pots and then they pots. Conversely, Raven has to draw out her spirit and then lunge it forward.

Zatanna was able to summon an audience of Circe and Spectre under her own power. Raven is outclassed.




Raven's soul self manifests itself instantly. It also has been described as moving "with lightning speed" and has been fast enough to snatch characters like Wonder Girl and Kid Flash.

what if, she release her soul self and grab Zatanna with it faster than Zatanna can cast a spell? Even if she fails to do this, Raven's soul self can still KO Zatanna and remain active for several minutes without Raven's body being present or conscious. More than enough time to nab Zatanna.

Konton
The soul self has also been shattered by Cyborg's sonics =/

Esprepsid puts Raven down. For the count.

Zatanna4life
Originally posted by Konton
The soul self has also been shattered by Cyborg's sonics =/

Esprepsid puts Raven down. For the count.



Yeah and in order to accomplish this feat....Speedy and Kory had to keep her off balance, a machine disrupted her inner ear, and Starfire blasted her thus making her loose control of her Soul Self...Had that not been the case he would have not been able to do so...

freakybinx
Originally posted by Lord_Talron
because the only think you know about zatanna is from the tv series, right? actually i have 4 different dc encyclopedias over 600 comic books almost all movies,tv series and games from dc thats why i said raven owns zs ass and what she chooses to do with it is completely up to her

Zatanna4life
This fight is only about the comic book versions just to clear thing up...

Bloinky
Originally posted by freakybinx
actually i have 4 different dc encyclopedias over 600 comic books almost all movies,tv series and games from dc thats why i said raven owns zs ass and what she chooses to do with it is completely up to her


Troll.

Zatanna4life
No one can rebuttal me? o.O

Konton
You don't really have an argument.

rougeredmage
i am going to say that Z is going to win this one the only way that R is going to win this battle is if Z has been smokeing too much Weed and is unable to fight a decent battle because of being High

Zatanna4life
Originally posted by Konton
You don't really have an argument.

I think I do...you were saying how Raven's soul self takes time to manifest, but I provided proof with a scan that it is fast, like catching kid flash and wonder girl fast.

Surely, she can release her soul self and grab Zatanna with it faster than Zatanna can cast a spell. Even if she fails to do this, Raven's soul self can still KO Zatanna and remain active for several minutes without Raven's body being present or conscious. More than enough time to nab Zatanna.

Konton
I can't recall it nabbing Flash and you didn't give me a scan or book to look it up in. Even if it did, it's probably on the same level as Zatanna out reacting Superman in a combat situation and Slade beating Starfire in h2h.

Zatanna4life
Originally posted by Konton
I can't recall it nabbing Flash and you didn't give me a scan or book to look it up in. Even if it did, it's probably on the same level as Zatanna out reacting Superman in a combat situation and Slade beating Starfire in h2h.

in the scan i gave, flash was already was the ground...but what about Raven's first appearance. when she went to the JLA and titans for help to deal with her dad. zatanna was afraid and told them to make her go away. then when she lost to her father, and it took the JLA and titans to stop her.

Konton
That's Raven operating on story induced power levels. In the vast majority of her appearances she flies around and complains about psychic backlash without actually doing anything.

Zatanna is more likely to put her down on the first go.

Zatanna4life
Originally posted by Konton
That's Raven operating on story induced power levels. In the vast majority of her appearances she flies around and complains about psychic backlash without actually doing anything.

Zatanna is more likely to put her down on the first go.


wait I might have messed up, wasn't she dark raven at that time? I'll have to check it again....

Zatanna4life
Originally posted by Konton
That's Raven operating on story induced power levels. In the vast majority of her appearances she flies around and complains about psychic backlash without actually doing anything.

Zatanna is more likely to put her down on the first go.



Nope, it turns out that was just regular Raven. No enhanced powers or anything. Where are you getting this psychic backlash from?

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