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Lots of characters have weaknesses, some of them are truly debilitating while others seem like minor inconveniences that overzealous posters will sometimes latch onto.

In my view some of the most exaggerated weaknesses in comics are as follows: Superman's magic vulnerability, Martian Manhunter's weakness to fire, Silver Surfer's lack of h/h skills, Juggernaut's vulnerability to tp, etc.

Any else that anyone can think of?

Reeds magic weakness.

How about Green Lanterns' "human level reaction time"? That gets mentioned a lot despite their track record of at least hanging with superspeedsters.

Absorbing Mans dumb ass.

Darkseids ability to get to get wrecked by Supes PIS.

Wolverine vs. thunderclap / electrocution / pressure points

Supermans weakness to magic.

superman doesnt really have a weakness to magic, hes just vunerable to it more so than magic based characters

Hearing trite arguments concerning Spider-Man's perceived lack of any kind of fighting skill can get tiresome. And I'm not even a Spider-Man fan.

Wolverine ghost holes in the skull, Juggernaut's depoweredness.

Galactus with an empty belly.

Darkseid`s weakness to posterboys.

Juggernaut growing weak for doing something besides breaking things.

Xavier`s guilt.

Storm falling in love with villains. "Ohh he is facinating"

Apocalypse at low levels of power, needing to hibernate etc.

Everybody in the god dammed universe being totally vulnerable to a few seconds of Reed/Doom/Batman prep.

Originally posted by Mshinu
Galactus with an empty belly.
Yeah, people thinking that there's some kind of formula to his level of nourishment where a particular character can beat him regardless of power level.

I hear that at 0.0001% power Green Arrow can take 4/10 against him.

Was it EVER stated on what percentage he was when hungry?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Yeah, people thinking that there's some kind of formula to his level of nourishment where a particular character can beat him regardless of power level.

I hear that at 0.0001% power Green Arrow can take 4/10 against him. Yes, he never should become so weak a herald can take him. I can't picture him becoming weaker than SS.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Was it EVER stated on what percentage he was when hungry? never, but classically he did shrink and grow (shuddup) depending on his level of nourishment

the size thing might be gone now since he's whatever size the artist wants him to be at now. when thanos shot him he was tiny, even though he was fed, but in annihilation he was pretty large even while weak as ever (you'd think it'd be ironic to create a form fitting restraint that also drains on a guy who is known to shrink when powering down)

Originally posted by 753
Yes, he never should become so weak a herald can take him. I can't picture him becoming weaker than SS.


I think surfer could take on the galactus in the BRB mini.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Was it EVER stated on what percentage he was when hungry?
Nope. It's always arbitrary. Considering we've never actually seen him at full power in 616 (as far as I know) his uber showings could have been done at 25% or at 95% for all we know.

The only real gague is that at critically low levels he can still destroy several solar systems with one blast.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Lots of characters have weaknesses, some of them are truly debilitating while others seem like minor inconveniences that overzealous posters will sometimes latch onto.

In my view some of the most exaggerated weaknesses in comics are as follows: Superman's magic vulnerability, Martian Manhunter's weakness to fire, Silver Surfer's lack of h/h skills, Juggernaut's vulnerability to tp, etc.

Any else that anyone can think of?

I don't think MM to fire or Jug to TP is very exaggerated. Fire's normally crippling to J'onn, and TP's practically the only reliable way to take Juggy down'

Originally posted by Q99
I don't think MM to fire or Jug to TP is very exaggerated. Fire's normally crippling to J'onn, and TP's practically the only reliable way to take Juggy down'
I've seen people argue that Pyro would take MM 10/10 simply because of the weakness.

Originally posted by Q99
I don't think MM to fire or Jug to TP is very exaggerated. Fire's normally crippling to J'onn, and TP's practically the only reliable way to take Juggy down' http://a.imageshack.us/img200/9703/0926090119.jpg

Originally posted by psycho gundam
never, but classically he did shrink and grow (shuddup) depending on his level of nourishment

the size thing might be gone now since he's whatever size the artist wants him to be at now. when thanos shot him he was tiny, even though he was fed, but in annihilation he was pretty large even while weak as ever (you'd think it'd be ironic to create a form fitting restraint that also drains on a guy who is known to shrink when powering down)

I don't care much for the size changes though, I think he should always be protrayed at a size the SS can fit in the palm of his hand and be completelly covered by his fingers if he closes it. That scene of his creation is very cool.

Thanos is pretty huge right now when compared to his own history though

No mention of Gladiator's confidence weakness thus far?

Smh...

Nah, thats just a KMC thing. He has no issues giving an ass kicking.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I've seen people argue that Pyro would take MM 10/10 simply because of the weakness.


Ok, yea, it's not that bad, even M'gann has beaten some strong fire users like Sun Girl via using her brains, speed, and range.

Originally posted by psycho gundam



Yea, there is BFR too

But to actually drop him, it's mostly TP.

I've never truly understood why the Marvels had to shout, SHAZAM! or why in the world would they ever want to go back to being mortal. To me, the latter is a glaring weakness.

Originally posted by Stoic
I've never truly understood why the Marvels had to shout, SHAZAM! or why in the world would they ever want to go back to being mortal. To me, the latter is a glaring weakness.
In Billy's case it was because he was a kid who had a life outside of superheroing.

Originally posted by Stoic
I've never truly understood why the Marvels had to shout, SHAZAM! or why in the world would they ever want to go back to being mortal. To me, the latter is a glaring weakness.

Agreed.

Thors CIS at times is a weakness. Thor not fcking around would murder guys like the Hulk.

Batman has that weakness called "Gotham's law system".

Originally posted by Bentley
Batman has that weakness called "Robin". fixed

Molecule Man's mental state. How hasn't that dude taken over the world yet?

Originally posted by Stall_19
Molecule Man's mental state. How hasn't that dude taken over the world yet?

He can make anything he wants with a thought, why would he want to?

Sentry's mental weakness
Supes weakness to magic
Thanos weakness to speed
combo to ko principle for any character h1a8 is arguing against
Green Lantern's reaction times
Glads Confidence
New Gods and Radion
Surfer being a pacifist

Originally posted by The Nuul
Thors CIS at times is a weakness. Thor not fcking around would murder guys like the Hulk. no, no he wouldnt

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi

New Gods and Radion

Radion is actually more dangerous to the New Gods than Kryptonite is to Kryptonians. That one is justified. IIRC the most that any New God ever stood up to was two shots from a Radion Blaster and that was Darkseid, pretty much any other New God would have died.

Fortunately Radion seems incredibly rare.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Radion is actually more dangerous to the New Gods than Kryptonite is to Kryptonians. That one is justified. IIRC the most that any New God ever stood up to was two shots from a Radion Blaster and that was Darkseid, pretty much any other New God would have died.

Fortunately Radion seems incredibly rare.



Thank god because I would hate to see Darkseid ever get hit by a couple bullets, and shyt himself... wait didn't that happen? Just kidding bro... lol.

Originally posted by Stoic
Thank god because I would hate to see Darkseid ever get hit by a couple bullets, and shyt himself... wait didn't that happen? Just kidding bro... lol.
The radion bullet was fired by Batman. Meaning that it was equivalent to a hundred radion bullets fired by anyone else.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
The radion bullet was fired by Batman. Meaning that it was equivalent to a hundred radion bullets fired by anyone else.

Martian Manhunter's weakness to Oreos.

Originally posted by batdude123
Martian Manhunter's weakness to Oreos.
He just can't resist dem Chocos.

Hal and yellow.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Hal and yellow.
How long has it been since yellow has actually inconvenienced him?

Part of the threat of the radion bullet was it stayed in the target, I got the impression.

Darkseid did not go down fast after being shot by it, the Flashes had to lure the Black Racer in.

Originally posted by Q99
Part of the threat of the radion bullet was it stayed in the target, I got the impression.

Darkseid did not go down fast after being shot by it, the Flashes had to lure the Black Racer in.
Darkseid died a Rasputian death in Final Crisis. Radion bullet followed by his own OE striking him, followed by the Black Racer coming for him, followed (apparently, the timeline is a little wonky) Wonder Woman binding him with her lasso, and then after all that getting his counter-vibration sung by Superman. And this was all after he had already been killed by Orion.

The guy was stubborn.

Spiderman and MA
Rhino and any foe-I half expext to see him lose against Aunt May, with a rolled up newspaper.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Radion is actually more dangerous to the New Gods than Kryptonite is to Kryptonians. That one is justified. IIRC the most that any New God ever stood up to was two shots from a Radion Blaster and that was Darkseid, pretty much any other New God would have died.

Fortunately Radion seems incredibly rare.

That is my point... it's so rare and not really a factor in any vs. match.. yet it gets brought up is my point. Stay with me Omega...

Hulk and Herc grounded

Thats not a over played weakness when all a good flyer has to do is move a little to the right, then wooosh Hulk goes straight past.

People exaggerate Wonder Woman's magical vulnerability to bullets like crazy.

Originally posted by Konton
People exaggerate Wonder Woman's magical vulnerability to bullets like crazy.
to be honest she was originally intended to be vulnerable to bullets and piercing attacks if not mistaken, though this was changed.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
to be honest she was originally intended to be vulnerable to bullets and piercing attacks if not mistaken, though this was changed. not so much changed as it was literally forgotten, ignored to make her more then she really was.. there are still scans of her in the 90's being told of her weakness on how her durability works.. it has to be activated via strength and superspeed if none are present she can be stabbed and injured like any other mortal.. she was stabbed in the leg to prove the point by one of her sisters.

her higher durability appeared out of nowhere with no explanation to it which is why i hate DC so much.

Hungry Galactus (as if starving Galactus didnt totally wipe out three solar systems in a blast)

Magic > Supes.

Jobber Darkseid.

They just wanted to pump Diana to Superman's level, DC doesn't think there is anything good on the meta tier, who can probably like Iron-man?

C'mon, WW's been able to trade blows with Superman since forever, decades before the Crisis even, being that vulnerable to bullets and blades is silly. Also, her sisters use enchanted blades. She's been *more* vulnerable to piercing and cutting attacks, but even in the 90s it took more than mundane ones to cause her serious injury, and even stab wounds and cuts by superhuman foes didn't exactly take her down (in the Perez era, she was more easily cut, but she also healed them very fast).

Thor started out vulnerable to bullets too, oddly enough. Thankfully also forgotten.

funny because back in the 70's thor was fighting in korea and he took machine gun fire and rocket launchers just fine when he was defending the red cross.

anyways diana taking blunt trauma against supes is fine and it was explained just fine since her muscles and bones are protected by magic when she activates her strength to engage in such a fight.

and during her lesson she wasnt stabbed by a magic arrow but a normal one by her sister to prove the point.. nice try.

Originally posted by King Castle
funny because back in the 70's thor was fighting in korea and he took machine gun fire and rocket launchers just fine when he was defending the red cross.

And there have been times when bullets could make him bleed. It was probably already gone by the 70s.



Such a means would protect against stabbing and blades, though.



A Themyscrian arrow, though? Those things aren't normal. Nor are her sisters normal human in strength.

Bruce Wayne.

Agreed with Supermans magic weakness.

And every writer has their own take on it.. Some portray this "weakness" is nothing more then the lack of special resistances, the same as any other mortal, and others believe he's especially weak against magic (For example, the pre crisis Phantom Zone saga had Superman be cut by a magic sword, and a Kryptonian wizard claimed this is because physical strengths are useless against magic, while All Star Squadron had Hitler with the Spear of Destiny only able to enslave magic based characters like Alan Scott and Wonder Woman.... and Superman.

All other non magic based characters were unaffected.)

It's overplayed, and it's kind of annoying having so many different interpretations, because fans tend to clash over them...

Originally posted by Q99
And there have been times when bullets could make him bleed. It was probably already gone by the 70s.



Such a means would protect against stabbing and blades, though.

just b/c they live Themyscrian doesnt mean every metal is magical most of the magical items tend to be given to them by gods and goddesses.. they have regular knifes and equipment that isnt magical as well usually when it is they say it out right this piece of armor or sword shield is magic.

the arrows used for the amazon competition wasnt magical neither was the one used to train diana and show her, her weakness. the arrows were being shot at her and were breaking on not just her wrist guards but on rocks/

you are trying to hard to defend diana when it appears you havent read the 90's issue in question other wise you wouldnt be trying to dismiss it as it must have bn magic and the amazon have super strength.. the amazon may be peak and slightly superhuman but nothing more on average and it wasnt like diana's sister stabbed her with full strength behind it it was a simple stab no real effort and it went right into her leg... diana's mother freaked out but it was a lesson needed for diana who felt she didnt need any training or had nothing to fear.

A Themyscrian arrow, though? Those things aren't normal. Nor are her sisters normal human in strength.

It's still a silly weakness

agreed. but, it should have bn properly acknowledged and retcon not just written out in a following story as it never being there.

that makes for poor lazy story telling and puts off fans.

Originally posted by Q99
C'mon, WW's been able to trade blows with Superman since forever, decades before the Crisis even, being that vulnerable to bullets and blades is silly. Also, her sisters use enchanted blades. She's been *more* vulnerable to piercing and cutting attacks, but even in the 90s it took more than mundane ones to cause her serious injury, and even stab wounds and cuts by superhuman foes didn't exactly take her down (in the Perez era, she was more easily cut, but she also healed them very fast).

Thor started out vulnerable to bullets too, oddly enough. Thankfully also forgotten.

Agreed on it being silly.

I think it was Busiek who commented on it on CBR, and basically shrugged his shoulders and said "She's magic. Magics funny that way."

That's probably how most writers rationalize it.

Originally posted by King Castle
her higher durability appeared out of nowhere with no explanation to it which is why i hate DC so much.

She's had multiple on panel upgrades.

Originally posted by cdtm
Agreed on it being silly.

I think it was Busiek who commented on it on CBR, and basically shrugged his shoulders and said "She's magic. Magics funny that way."

That's probably how most writers rationalize it. easiest thing they could have done is have a god or goddess win favor and address the weakness and remove it or when she was a goddess acknowledge that it was removed due to her retaining a lil extra umpf when she returned to her previous power lvls..

this whole i have a new limit i just discovered due to exceeding it in battle is lazy writing which is why guys like superman, sentry and diana suck balls... same for a GL

Originally posted by The Nuul
Thors CIS at times is a weakness. Thor not fcking around would murder guys like the Hulk.

LOL... you truly hate the Hulk dont you?

Gladiator's confidence.

lol I just thought I was seeing double. I always forget that king castle is not carver new name but that other guy.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Gladiator's confidence.

been said before

Originally posted by axelraptor
been said before

Needs to be said twice.

though the confidences thing has been displayed in comics numerous times. Cannon ball used it effectively to hold gladiator off, Nova used it to defeat him ect.

It also been used as a strength to increases his abilites as well.

the heroes inablility to kill or maim which is the cause of them getting their @$$ handed to them due to their good nature and make an escape.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
though the confidences thing has been displayed in comics numerous times. Cannon ball used it effectively to hold gladiator off, Nova used it to defeat him ect.

It also been used as a strength to increases his abilites as well.

It's rare, and Cannonball hit him back with his own kinetic energy. Gladiator got up a few panels later in a bad mood. It's not something that he can consciously amp. Gladiator performs best when he's not thinking about it.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Spiderman and MA
You beat me to it. That's only from MA lovers though mainly.

Originally posted by illadelph12
No mention of Gladiator's confidence weakness thus far?

Smh...

word, most ppl have zero ****ing clue how it even works lol

Yep needs to be said one more time for clarity

Mxy's name backwards.

Terrax's weakness to jober aura.
Darkseid's weakness to jober aura.
Thor's speed.
Supe's weakness to magic, kryptonite, red sun radiation.
Gladiator's self confidence.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
You beat me to it. That's only from MA lovers though mainly.
There quite a bit of evidences, that supports this. Spiderman has trouble with skilled opponents. True it over play often on the boards, but the basis is still very much true.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
There quite a bit of evidences, that supports this. Spiderman has trouble with skilled opponents. True it over play often on the boards, but the basis is still very much true.

But that "weakness" is really only to an extent. For the most part, Spidey holds back so much against "human" opponents. I admit that this tends to work poorly in his favor, but it's what he does. Otherwise, he'd be exploding heads left and right with this fists.

The times when he's not messing around, well, you can see exactly how little the martial arts skills matter at that point. I'm always reminded of when Spidey just had enough and lifted up on the train cars over his head, with seemingly little effort, and made his ninja(?) enemy piss his pants in terror.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
There quite a bit of evidences, that supports this. Spiderman has trouble with skilled opponents. True it over play often on the boards, but the basis is still very much true. There is not, he's done very well with opponents who are skilled and have powers (Puma for example). Any trouble he has against main A star characters is a case of him simply jobbing for the story and holding back (either for weakness of the character and/or the sake of the fight).. On the forum most MA's aren't getting even a split with him, he is faster and can wipe out most of them in a hit, if not incapacitate him. Spider-Man is skilled, and he is also experienced as well, much faster and with enhanced senses. He has his own unorthodox style as well.

Martial Arts does not determine fighting ability, fighting ability is not just martial arts. Characters like Thor don't know martial arts, but to say he isn't skilled is just silly.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Hearing trite arguments concerning Spider-Man's perceived lack of any kind of fighting skill can get tiresome. And I'm not even a Spider-Man fan.

Proves my point nicely. I even made a thread about this.

Double post, my bad.

I'd say that Thor's been around long enough to learn martial arts but it's just not his thing. It's like a friend I've had since I was young. Learned a bunch of martial arts Tae Kwan Do, ju Jitsu, Jeet Kun Do but when it came down to the few fights he's been in he just out right brawls.(even when sober)

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
There is not, he's done very well with opponents who are skilled and have powers (Puma for example). Any trouble he has against main A star characters is a case of him simply jobbing for the story and holding back (either for weakness of the character and/or the sake of the fight).. On the forum most MA's aren't getting even a split with him, he is faster and can wipe out most of them in a hit, if not incapacitate him. Spider-Man is skilled, and he is also experienced as well, much faster and with enhanced senses. He has his own unorthodox style as well.

Martial Arts does not determine fighting ability, fighting ability is not just martial arts. Characters like Thor don't know martial arts, but to say he isn't skilled is just silly.



Proves my point nicely. I even made a thread about this.

Originally posted by Uriel005
I'd say that Thor's been around long enough to learn martial arts but it's just not his thing. It's like a friend I've had since I was young. Learned a bunch of martial arts Tae Kwan Do, ju Jitsu, Jeet Kun Do but when it came down to the few fights he's been in he just out right brawls.(even when sober) Of course Thor could learn it, but people look at MA as the only type of (skill) but not as a tool to maximize movement. I've done MA as well, and I still do, it has it's uses, but a more experienced fighter will handle themselves (internally especially) in a fight better than someone who has never been in one. Spider-Man is a career superhero, he's been in thousands of fights and his super powers are fighting based. Reflexes, speed, and strength as well. People on here making it look like that anybody with Karate classes would stomp him is a stretch.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
There is not, he's done very well with opponents who are skilled and have powers (Puma for example).
Yes there is, yes he done well at points, but then tend to give him trouble. Also I should have clearified, I ment extremely skilled fighter. Puma meh at fighting, I not even sure he be 3rd tier. His skill are lacking and he done really nothing of notice. I argue even warpath is his superior.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Any trouble he has against main A star characters is a case of him simply jobbing for the story and holding back (either for weakness of the character and/or the sake of the fight)..
excuses that all this is.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
On the forum most MA's aren't getting even a split with him, he is faster and can wipe out most of them in a hit, if not incapacitate him.

I never said they would or even implied. I said they give him trouble which they do, but that does not mean they come closes to winning a majority hell or even a single win. Most MA's he dominate, and the highly skilled ones like DD for example would give spiderman problems. Not to say spiderman wouldent win the large majority if not almost everytime, but they will make him work hard for it. Given his abilities they should be much easier fights, but there vastly superior skill gives spiderman harder time.


Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Spider-Man is skilled, and he is also experienced as well, much faster and with enhanced senses. He has his own unorthodox style as well.
He is skilled and experienced, but nothing closes to MA/fighters I am speaking talking about.

also the much faster and enhanced senses part is debatable depending upon which individual you are talking about.

I have heard this unorthodox style many times, and to be honest it simply spiderman relying on his abilities (not to say thats a bad thing) and it really only seems to trick unskilled indivduals. People like Punisher for example have even talked about how spiderman telegraphs his movements. No 2nd tier and up has had any difficulty with spiderman style (not that spiderman isent better or, beats them just saying it never onces been refferences that it was becuases of his fighting style).

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Martial Arts does not determine fighting ability, fighting ability is not just martial arts. Characters like Thor don't know martial arts, but to say he isn't skilled is just silly.

It part of fighting ability a large part. Techinically Thor knows asguardian MA. Pretty much any fighting style is part of martial arts. People simply assume martial arts only has to do with the Asia which is wrong. When i am talking MA I mean fighting disciplines as a whole. Thor is skilled, though far cry from top tier however.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
People on here making it look like that anybody with Karate classes would stomp him is a stretch.
not a single person even hinted this.

Originally posted by Konton
She's had multiple on panel upgrades.

Yea. Like when she came back from being a goddess, she was stronger.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Yes there is, yes he done well at points, but then tend to give him trouble. Also I should have clearified, I ment extremely skilled fighter. Puma meh at fighting, I not even sure he be 3rd tier. His skill are lacking and he done really nothing of notice. I argue even warpath is his superior.


excuses that all this is.



I never said they would or even implied. I said they give him trouble which they do, but that does not mean they come closes to winning a majority hell or even a single win. Most MA's he dominate, and the highly skilled ones like DD for example would give spiderman problems. Not to say spiderman wouldent win the large majority if not almost everytime, but they will make him work hard for it. Given his abilities they should be much easier fights, but there vastly superior skill gives spiderman harder time.



He is skilled and experienced, but nothing closes to MA/fighters I am speaking talking about.

also the much faster and enhanced senses part is debatable depending upon which individual you are talking about.

I have heard this unorthodox style many times, and to be honest it simply spiderman relying on his abilities (not to say thats a bad thing) and it really only seems to trick unskilled indivduals. People like Punisher for example have even talked about how spiderman telegraphs his movements. No 2nd tier and up has had any difficulty with spiderman style (not that spiderman isent better or, beats them just saying it never onces been refferences that it was becuases of his fighting style).


It part of fighting ability a large part. Techinically Thor knows asguardian MA. Pretty much any fighting style is part of martial arts. People simply assume martial arts only has to do with the Asia which is wrong. When i am talking MA I mean fighting disciplines as a whole. Thor is skilled, though far cry from top tier however. They aren't excuses, they are simply fact and common sense, the world's best fighter isn't beating the world's largest elephant. There is a difference between fighting efficiency and proficiency. The one who wins the fight is the better fighter. And no Martial Arts is *not* the only way to fight, please don't argue with me on this. It is a more modernized tool to make bodily movements more effective, something that Spider-Man has naturally. Martial Arts is a lot more broad than you realize.

Speed, not debatable, again don't argue something that hasn't been proved. I have brought this up in a thread before, and only 2 or 3 people argue otherwise.

As a matter of fact bring actual "proof" of his fighting skill being an issue versus just saying it. Spider-Man holds back all of the time, that isn't an excuse. Not to mention that DD, Cap, and Logan are all his friends, is he going to go all out on them? Where are these characters even frequently using this "skill", the punches and kicks look actually a lot less comlex than what Spider-Man even uses, simple haymakers.

Show me where they consistently use this "skill" that I hear so much about instead of just throwing haymakers around and you might have a solid point. Those characters give him a workout, but if he is *really* serious like Aunt May got shot serious, they are mostly going down in a single hit.

Excuses are more like Wolverine being "immune" to pressure points, thunder claps, and people weaker than the Hulk when he has been shown to be affected by them numerous times.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
not a single person even hinted this. Many people have said that MA is his kryptonite and he can't win against a trained individual. Garbage.

Bizarro being dumb

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
They aren't excuses, they are simply fact and common sense, the world's best fighter isn't beating the world's largest elephant. There is a difference between fighting efficiency and proficiency. The one who wins the fight is the better fighter. And no Martial Arts is *not* the only way to fight, please don't argue with me on this. It is a more modernized tool to make bodily movements more effective, something that Spider-Man has naturally. Martial Arts is a lot more broad than you realize.

Speed, not debatable, again don't argue something that hasn't been proved. I have brought this up in a thread before, and only 2 or 3 people argue otherwise.

As a matter of fact bring actual "proof" of his fighting skill being an issue versus just saying it. Spider-Man holds back all of the time, that isn't an excuse. Not to mention that DD, Cap, and Logan are all his friends, is he going to go all out on them? Where are these characters even frequently using this "skill", the punches and kicks look actually a lot less comlex than what Spider-Man even uses, simple haymakers.

Show me where they consistently use this "skill" that I hear so much about instead of just throwing haymakers around and you might have a solid point. Those characters give him a workout, but if he is *really* serious like Aunt May got shot serious, they are mostly going down in a single hit.

Excuses are more like Wolverine being "immune" to pressure points, thunder claps, and people weaker than the Hulk when he has been shown to be affected by them numerous times.
I am not gunna bother, you think what you want, wont matter what I say.

The fact you still believe spiderman is much faster then wolverine, capt, IF, shang-chi, elektra ect. says it all.




PS, simply becuase I could not help myself and want to clarify it before I got a bunch of morons trying to uses this in a versus debate.

numerous times is laughable, he was effected onces by pressure points and the guy landed several killing ones many of which did nothing, but after awhile the poison over took him (yea he was poison prior to the fight). It was the reason given for why they even worked in the first place. Asside from that, the most they have done is annoy him (Fact). As for the Thunder clap, the sonic ability of it has only worked once and he still recovered fast enough to dodge hulks attack. Asside from that it has done nothing to him and has been of not no hindrances (Fact).

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I am not gunna bother, you think what you want, wont matter what I say.

The fact you still believe spiderman is much faster then wolverine, capt, IF, shang-chi, elektra ect. says it all.
He is.
Spidey's far faster. His superior strength and lighter body mathematically provides him with far greater acceleration (bc he has far greater Force and a=F/m). Show me a feat where anyone of those characters you mentioned is able to move outta the way of a bullet after it is inches from them. Show me a feat where any one of those characters can outrun a bullet. Note: The cap feat with red skull is invalid for various reasons.

been shown to you numerous times, you simply right it off as pis every time. Hell in your very post you already try and right off capt feat. it pointless debating with you, you refuses to acknowledge anything dispite the fact it shown on pannel.

Originally posted by h1a8
His superior strength and lighter body mathematically provides him with far greater acceleration

Yes, because this is a math forum.

343 x 12 ,3 *^*&^98 = 332454 - 2 = battlehammer is right and H1 is full of shit again.

Originally posted by Parmaniac

It made me laugh as well.


Originally posted by The Nuul
Yes, because this is a math forum.
cosigned

Oh and this is comics, who the fck cares about using real life physics for comics.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Oh and this is comics, who the fck cares about real life physics in a comic. Well we can sometimes, to a degree, use them. Maybe to explain certain powers or stuff like that, or how powerful an attack must have been. But the fun stops when you explain a whole matchup in a formula...

Originally posted by The Nuul
Oh and this is comics, who the fck cares about using real life physics for comics.
completely agree.


Because real life would not allow for someone to be biten by a radioactive spider to gain powers, they simply die lol. So why the hell would someone think that applying real world physics would work. In a world that defies physics on a constant basis.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Well we can sometimes, to a degree, use them. Maybe to explain certain powers or stuff like that, or how powerful an attack must have been. But the fun stops when you explain a whole matchup in a formula...
I agree, completely.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Well we can sometimes, to a degree, use them. Maybe to explain certain powers or stuff like that, or how powerful an attack must have been. But the fun stops when you explain a whole matchup in a formula...

No, its comic. That shit doesnt work and has no need for stuff like that. Comics and KMC are fun, it shouldnt be a math test or like looking like school.

Anyways this is causing spam.

Originally posted by The Nuul
No, its comic. That shit doesnt work and has no need for stuff like that. Even comics use "real life physics" sometimes to explain their stuff. Like building up gravitational fields that are 50G or Hulk creating shockwaves while stomping that are a 6 on the Richterscale etc.

I'm not talking about h1a8 physics here.

Originally posted by The Nuul
No, its comic. That shit doesnt work and has no need for stuff like that.
There are times when real world science is useful. Often in the assessment of feats. For instance it is helpful to know the muzzle velocity of a bullet when you analyze a showing where a character outruns a bullet or something to that effect.

But the way H1a8 uses "science" is almost always wrong.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Oh and this is comics, who the fck cares about using real life physics for comics.

In an everyday general sense, agreed.

But we're on a board about debating comic book characters. Using real world physics is no less stupid then bringing up a laundry list of various writer interpretations to decide which fictional characters win in a fight.

It's only natural to play any and every angle to win such a debate.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
There are times when real world science is useful. Often in the assessment of feats. For instance it is helpful to know the muzzle velocity of a bullet when you analyze a showing where a character outruns a bullet or something to that effect.

But the way H1a8 uses "science" is almost always wrong.

Originally posted by Parmaniac


I'm not talking about h1a8 physics here.

I am only talking about his crap.

Anyways, lets please drop this. Its causing spam.

On topic theres no way that Parker is a lot faster than Logan, Cap, Danny etc...

Originally posted by The Nuul
I am only talking about his crap.

Anyways, lets pleas drop this. I agree, that's why I wrote "sometimes, to a degree," to use RL physics. Of course not all the time to "explain"/justify everything.

Originally posted by The Nuul


On topic theres no way that Parker is a lot faster than Logan, Cap, Danny etc...
agreed.

Darkseid/supes PIS.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I am not gunna bother, you think what you want, wont matter what I say.

The fact you still believe spiderman is much faster then wolverine, capt, IF, shang-chi, elektra ect. says it all.




PS, simply becuase I could not help myself and want to clarify it before I got a bunch of morons trying to uses this in a versus debate.

numerous times is laughable, he was effected onces by pressure points and the guy landed several killing ones many of which did nothing, but after awhile the poison over took him (yea he was poison prior to the fight). It was the reason given for why they even worked in the first place. Asside from that, the most they have done is annoy him (Fact). As for the Thunder clap, the sonic ability of it has only worked once and he still recovered fast enough to dodge hulks attack. Asside from that it has done nothing to him and has been of not no hindrances (Fact).
First of all why do you turn every damn thread into some type of vendetta against Spider-Man and some sympathy for Wolverine?

You're going to think what you're going to think yourself, the fact that you think they are all equally fast says it all. If you think characters like Batman who are human, don't have the same caliber of feats or nearly as often and is not as statistically fast is equally as fast, you need to prove it. You haven't on this forum or on mine, all you did was get mad and log off as usual.
More strength, the faster a muscle moves. Jumping speed is based off of strength also, which is primarily how he travels. If he can launch a heaveier object faster, he can also launch his own body faster.

All you have to do is prove what you said and it would be an all go. But I made this thread and there was none, simply you saying, "nuh uh". You take these boards too seriously, and I have better things to do than to argue with someone who thinks Wolverine wins against just about everything. I have a business to maintain now so I only come on for a short period of time a day, since you are on this thing nonstop you will be sniffing out the posts and looking for a counter. I wouldn't have said the last part if it weren't for your pm, which was an insult.Originally posted by The Nuul
Oh and this is comics, who the fck cares about using real life physics for comics. Because the authors and writers use them as well. Real life is a large part in comics, and apart from the very obvious things that aren't real life related those things still apply. If the Human Torch's flames work in space despite them needing oxygen would be an issue because his powers are based on real life fire. Firelord is different because his flames aren't actual fire.

Continuity A is continuity A. I proved this in the Flash thread.

Funny coming form the guy that started all of this. You the one that turned this into some attack. I stated spiderman has trouble with skilled opponents and you turned it into some huge deal. I even explained it saying that spiderman still wins, but that very highly skilled individual give him fights. You turned that into some attack against spiderman, then you started attacking wolverine as if to some how get back at me. Stop projecting, your clearly the one who has the problem here not me.


I already proved it. Or did you forget the last time you asked for evidences I brought it forth and you kept going, ok I will get to this later. You said that 5 times, it been like 7 months since then, so dont give me that shit. I not gunna re provide evidences that I already gave you. You go find the thread and respond. Please don't even try to pretend you don't know what I am talking about becuase you dam well know. I wont be coming back here to take this thread further off topic, respond to my post that you said you would months ago or don't bother whining about evidences you have all ready been provided but never responded dispite stating several times you would.


also there was zero reason to get insulting. But do as you wish.


yes I think wolveirne wins just about everything, right thats why I have gone on record several times as saying Spiderman wins 6/10 against wolverine depending upon scenerio. But yea think what you wish about how I believe wolverine beats everyone.

as for my pm, it was a pm for a reason, I wasent gunna call you out in front of everyone, but what you stated was utter bullshit about pressure points and thunder claps and I asked you to prove it. The fact you dident and resorted to this, says all I needed to know.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
If the Human Torch's flames work in space despite them needing oxygen would be an issue because his powers are based on real life fire. Firelord is different because his flames aren't actual fire.


Not the biggest Fantastic Four guy, but doesn't Johnny's flames work underwater?

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Funny coming form the guy that started all of this. You the one that turned this into some attack. I stated spiderman has trouble with skilled opponents and you turned it into some huge deal. I even explained it saying that spiderman still wins, but that very highly skilled individual give him fights. You turned that into some attack against spiderman, then you started attacking wolverine as if to some how get back at me. Stop projecting, your clearly the one who has the problem here not me.


I already proved it. Or did you forget the last time you asked for evidences I brought it forth and you kept going, ok I will get to this later. You said that 5 times, it been like 7 months since then, so dont give me that shit. I not gunna re provide evidences that I already gave you. You go find the thread and respond. Please don't even try to pretend you don't know what I am talking about becuase you dam well know. I wont be coming back here to take this thread further off topic, respond to my post that you said you would months ago or don't bother whining about evidences you have all ready been provided but never responded dispite stating several times you would.


also there was zero reason to get insulting. But do as you wish.


yes I think wolveirne wins just about everything, right thats why I have gone on record several times as saying Spiderman wins 6/10 against wolverine depending upon scenerio. But yea think what you wish about how I believe wolverine beats everyone.

as for my pm, it was a pm for a reason, I wasent gunna call you out in front of everyone, but what you stated was utter bullshit about pressure points and thunder claps and I asked you to prove it. The fact you dident and resorted to this, says all I needed to know. Man please, I didn't insult you. I was talking to the thread in general and you quoted me and we debated and then you went in and sent me a message saying I was full of shit (keep in mind I haven't talked to you directly in months) and say things like "a bunch of morons". There was no "proof" of anything else.

You are right though we will have to agree to disagree on it. Now do I think that Spider-Man moves so fast that nothing can touch him? No.

Do I think he moves so fast that he will never be seen? No.

Even a human can get lucky and hit him, I just think (and know) when he is serious or fighting larger threats he performs much better and hardly gets hit. He has the precog and his history places him with great feats, and even Ultimate Spider-Man is protrayed faster (despite being weaker and the MA's being stronger).

Long story short I think if he is fighting a human like he would say, the Hulk, they would be overwhelmed, unless they have a power (say Cyclops).

I'm not saying he is some blur that can't be hit, like I think Wolverine isn't some guy that can't be hurt, both are ridiculous to me. IMO.

I do think Spider-Man squashes pretty much any street, but higher level characters he doesn't have as many he will beat directly on the forum. Not Ock, not Red, not Carnage, not Venom, not Gorgon etc. I am not one for being biased and I don't care one way or the other if he loses or not. There is no emotional attachment to me there.

Originally posted by cdtm
Not the biggest Fantastic Four guy, but doesn't Johnny's flames work underwater? Without the special suit? Last I checked I don't remember him just naturally doing it without oxygen and not needing some device, but then again there have been upgrades.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
been shown to you numerous times, you simply right it off as pis every time. Hell in your very post you already try and right off capt feat. it pointless debating with you, you refuses to acknowledge anything dispite the fact it shown on pannel.

You act as if PIS don't exist in comics. You believe anything shown on panel is not PIS. If that's the case then PIS can never exist. The reason the feat is invalid is because of one of these reasons

1. Red Skull first three shots missed and Cap blocked the latter three bullets. This is because Red Skull was able to squeeze off two more bullets. The mechanics of the revolver doesn't allow another bullet to go off until the previous bullets travels at least several hundred feet.

2. The writer didn't intend for Cap to travel faster than a bullet. He simply just wanted to show Cap react fast enough to protect the person. An example of this is when another writer had flash do a feat that was actually 13trillion times the speed of light yet the writer only intended flash to be moving slightly under the speed of light. Writer's sometimes do take in things literally or scientifically. They don't always focus on the details and sometimes accidentally portray things wrong.

3. It is PIS (if the first two reasons aren't true). It is more PIS for Cap to run faster than a bullet than it is for Spidey to beat Firelord. When Red Skull fired the first bullet time went by and he fired two more rounds. Then Cap moved! That means the first bullet was at most a foot away (possibly inches or less) from its target before Cap even ran. If this is the case then Cap ran at more than mach 30. This is beyond orbital velocity. Thus it is clearly PIS and can't be used due to forum rules. Otherwise Spidey's feat on Firelord isn't PIS, nor is anything else.

Lastly, my post also had mentioned feats that Spidey did that can't be matched by any of the other characters mentioned. But u chose to ignore them. In one instance, Spidey got out of the way of a bullet ONLY after it was inches from him.

do you ever shut up?

Originally posted by psycho gundam
do you ever shut up?

Yeah, let's get back on the topic. I don't understand why people feel the need to get their feathers ruffled.

wolverine's temper will keep him from fighting at optimum lvls.. he will tank teh attacks and die b/c he doesnt dodge.

also if he goes berserk it makes him dumber and even easier to fight off.

How could any weakness be more overplayed than Kryptonite? lol

Kryptonite has become so much engrained into American Pop Culture that it is part of the popular vernacular and often used as a synonym for a glaring weakness. I have heard people my age, including my girlfriend use the term as something or someone being thier kryptonite (as in weakness). Even non-comic fans know what it means. There is even a song called Kryptonite.

Nvm....I misunderstood the topic. Thought it was most overplayed in comics, not in debates.

Originally posted by Badabing
Yeah, let's get back on the topic. I don't understand why people feel the need to get their feathers ruffled. EDIT it's not working

Zatanna more than most magi seems to be accused of being vulnerable to blitzing.

b/c she has to say everything backwards seems to the average person that is quite the chore

Originally posted by King Castle
b/c she has to say everything backwards seems to the average person that is quite the chore
But in comics its a well known fact that a person can speak a paragraph in the time it takes to fall five or six feet.

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/badcomic2.jpg

Zat doesn't *have* to say things backwards but it does help her conceptualize the spell. It's a mental trick, nothing more.

^ So she says stuff backwards to cast spells.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ So she says stuff backwards to cast spells.

The point is, it's optional. It makes it easier to cast spells but it is possible to cut out that step for various reasons.

Zatanna casts her spells by speaking backwards so often that her not doing it in a forum battle is about as likely as Thor dropping Mjolnir and relying on his innate powers to count energy projection or something similar.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
But in comics its a well known fact that a person can speak a paragraph in the time it takes to fall five or six feet.

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/badcomic2.jpg


Where's h1n8?

I remember he tried to argue that a Thor speed feat wasn't valid because Thor spoke a sentence or two while performing it.

Downright asinine.

Originally posted by Q99
The point is, it's optional. It makes it easier to cast spells but it is possible to cut out that step for various reasons. But with CIS on there isn't reason to assume she would do it often enough to change the outcome of her matches, is there?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
But in comics its a well known fact that a person can speak a paragraph in the time it takes to fall five or six feet.

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/badcomic2.jpg
Actually, that is rare (so stop pretending it's a well know comic fact when it isn't). Things of this nature can and should be taken as the dialogue actually first occurring before the action and finishing during the action.


Sometimes comics accidentally go against common sense. If that is the case (not necessarily the scan you showed does this) then those instances can't be used to prove a Pro about a feat.

Anyone knows that there is two types of magic casting.

1. magic due to chanting first

2. magic without chanting.

Clearly, in comics characters wait for the other to finish chanting before making an action. This is for the sake of the story and not because the chanter is actually chanting at instant speed.

the second one would be hand gestures

Use Magic Device.

^magic without chanting covers all of that.
^magic with chanting covers all of that too.

Comics always go against common sense, if it didn't i would stop reading it.

Originally posted by h1a8
Actually, that is rare (so stop pretending it's a well know comic fact when it isn't). Things of this nature can and should be taken as the dialogue actually first occurring before the action and finishing during the action.


Sometimes comics accidentally go against common sense. If that is the case (not necessarily the scan you showed does this) then those instances can't be used to prove a Pro about a feat.

Anyone knows that there is two types of magic casting.

1. magic due to chanting first

2. magic without chanting.

Clearly, in comics characters wait for the other to finish chanting before making an action. This is for the sake of the story and not because the chanter is actually chanting at instant speed.
It's not rare at all. You'd know how common it was if you actually read comics.

Originally posted by Q99
Zat doesn't *have* to say things backwards but it does help her conceptualize the spell. It's a mental trick, nothing more.
Sorta reminds me of the Dresden Files where magic doesn't actually require speech but is much less likely to backfire if you focus it with verbalization (preferably from a language you don't use in everyday speech, like Latin or Sanskrit).

Originally posted by Omega Vision
It's not rare at all. You'd know how common it was if you actually read comics.


I've read many comics and I know what I'm talking about.

Originally posted by amnesia
Comics always go against common sense, if it didn't i would stop reading it. No they don't. They rarely ever go against common sense. They may go against some science here and there, but science isn't common sense.

Originally posted by h1a8
I've read many comics and I know what I'm talking about.

I'm sure you read the funny papers every Sunday. Those are technically comics.

Originally posted by Omega Vision

Sorta reminds me of the Dresden Files where magic doesn't actually require speech but is much less likely to backfire if you focus it with verbalization (preferably from a language you don't use in everyday speech, like Latin or Sanskrit).

Yea, good example.

Lack of speed.... and how faster characters dominate them.... Which is hardly how comic book characters are portrayed.

The only exception are characters that are only speed based <ex. Flash , Quicksilver etc> were their primary power is speed.

Speed plays minor role in comic book victories for all other characters.

The inability of a comic character to kill Wolverine. Because somehow, not killing Wolverine = auto-lose.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
The inability of a comic character to kill Wolverine. Because somehow, not killing Wolverine = auto-lose.
You saying that isn't true? uhuh


biscuits

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Because somehow, not killing Wolverine = auto-lose. Damn straight it does.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
The inability of a comic character to kill Wolverine. Because somehow, not killing Wolverine = auto-lose.

Yes! People remember you don't have to kill non-regenerators to win, it just seems to slip their minds on people with regen in some cases.

This applies to other regenerators too, not just Logan.

Anyone against flash with speed steal.

"Actually, that is rare (so stop pretending it's a well know comic fact when it isn't). Things of this nature can and should be taken as the dialogue actually first occurring before the action and finishing during the action."

On the other hand, O V, I thought it was pretty funny.

thunderstrike is not as strong as thor so is not a 100 tonner..

plus, he is only a 30 tonner b/c comicvine says so.facepalm

Originally posted by King Castle
thunderstrike is not as strong as thor so is not a 100 tonner..

plus, he is only a 30 tonner b/c comicvine says so.facepalm that doesn't mean thunderstrike isn't a 100 tonner, just becuase he's not as strong as thor

i know. i am just being sarcastic with ppl's poor logic. when in comics he is seen fighting other 100 tonners toe to toe and referenced in the same strength class as hercules and maxam

I think the Class 100+ system should be replaced by something a little more precise. There's a massive difference between someone like Thing who's low Class 100 and someone like Superman who's in the quadrillion to sextillion ton range.

the whole tryin to gauge high meta's and heralds is absurd due to lil to applicable science and lack of writer research

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I think the Class 100+ system should be replaced by something a little more precise. There's a massive difference between someone like Thing who's low Class 100 and someone like Superman who's in the quadrillion to sextillion ton range. The old system was better it had class 7 strength as incalculable and not as 100t.

"Magneto can't fight if there's no metal around him". Lol?

Some of his suit is made of metal, and not only that, most opponents got iron in their very own blood! Some, like Wolverine (who is usually seen as more or less immortal) would be childplay for Magneto, even though there is no loose metal in the area. Also, Magneto can create electricity and magnetic forcefields (also expandable from inside his opponent's stomach), and to make it even more extreme, he can use his magnetic control to increase his own strenght to Hulk-like levels.

So... Even if there is no metal around, Magneto is still a beast.

Yes, but even simpler, he can just project energy to incinerate things.