Surfer & Hulk vs. Thor.& Herc

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byrdgang21
All current versions.

1. Cis on
2. Cis off

amnesia
Surfer>Thor
Hulk=Herc

methinks team 1 for a healthy majority.

janus77
Team 1 stomps in both.
Hulk >>>> Herc (for the moment).

zopzop
Hell, Surfer maybe able to solo this. Just stay out of reach of Herc, it's not like he can fly. And focus on Thor, once he's down. Herc is dead.

janus77
Thor isn't going to be that easy for Surfer (CIS or not). and if he's fighting solo, then when Thor punches/drags Surfer to the ground, it becomes 2 on 1.

Surfer will need Hulk to take care of Herc, in order to win. but Surfer & Hulk win both scenarios nonetheless.

zopzop
I still think adding Hulk to this is overkill. But I could be behind the times. Has Herc gotten any new powers recently?

byrdgang21
I'm a bit surprised by the comments. In another thread I posted people were claiming that Herc was skyfather. I thought team 2 would have been said to do a little better. Even though imo team 1 takes slight majority. Still think this would be an epic fight though.

janus77
Herc is SkyFather+ in Chaos Wars, I think.
Originally posted by zopzop
I still think adding Hulk to this is overkill. But I could be behind the times. Has Herc gotten any new powers recently?
he will have soon... Cho made him SkyFather. but I think that's cheating and ... who knows just how powerful Hulk is anyways (Rulk > Grandmaster! nearly murdered OF Thor etc etc)...

going with regular Herc for the moment.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by zopzop
Hell, Surfer maybe able to solo this. Just stay out of reach of Herc, it's not like he can fly. And focus on Thor, once he's down. Herc is dead.

amnesia
You are wrong BBZ. If Janus says that surfer doesn't solo, it is most likely true.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by amnesia
You are wrong BBZ. If Janus says that surfer doesn't solo, it is most likely true. Surfer beats thor.

Herc can't do anything to thor if he stays in the air.So surfer has a chance of soloing.

Bouboumaster
current Hulk is a beast

psycho gundam
surfer gives hulk more gamma, instead of taking it away like he did in their first encounter (in like one panel).

Rage.Of.Olympus
And Thor drains it right back out of him.

Originally posted by zopzop
Hell, Surfer maybe able to solo this. Just stay out of reach of Herc, it's not like he can fly. And focus on Thor, once he's down. Herc is dead.

laughing out loud That's it. The cosmic wanking in this board has gone through the roof. It's downright ridiculous now.

------

Team two stomps in a spite thread. Current Hercules is like Cosmic level now.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Surfer beats thor.

It amuses me how you constantly say this like it's some proven fact.

iceman24567
LOL at Surfer soloing no expression

Slaanesh
if what was said about the power he got is true..Herc can solo..he's like on a whole different level now..

h1a8
Originally posted by iceman24567
LOL at Surfer soloing no expression

Surfer can solo if Fighting at his best.
He's too fast and can fly. Thus Herc is a non factor. He can bfr Herc in less than a microsecond if he wanted to.

Stoic
Originally posted by Slaanesh
if what was said about the power he got is true..Herc can solo..he's like on a whole different level now..


This has yet to be seen.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Not really. It was straight up shown he gained a huge upgrade in the latest issue of the Prince of Power. A preview of the first issue of Chaos War came out recently. It also supports the stance that Hercules received a huge power up.

iceman24567
Originally posted by h1a8
Surfer can solo if Fighting at his best.
He's too fast and can fly. Thus Herc is a non factor. He can bfr Herc in less than a microsecond if he wanted to. Thor can bring Herc back no expression

zopzop
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

laughing out loud That's it. The cosmic wanking in this board has gone through the roof. It's downright ridiculous now.

------

Team two stomps in a spite thread. Current Hercules is like Cosmic level now.



My point was it's really between Thor and the SS. Herc is a non factor. I mean you may as well throw in Sif too. None of them have any energy projection, they can't fly, no mind powers, no super speed, nothing aside from brute strength. But it seems he's gotten a recent powerup that changes things. That's a different story.

Because if it's classic Herc, he's just there to cheerlead for Thor.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Team two stomps in a spite thread. Current Hercules is like Cosmic level now. confused i think it's best to wait dontyathink?

Rage.Of.Olympus
I think it's safe to say that his at or approaching the Cosmic tier. At the very least, his above Skyfather level.

Originally posted by zopzop
My point was it's really between Thor and the SS. Herc is a non factor. I mean you may as well throw in Sif too. None of them have any energy projection, they can't fly, no mind powers, no super speed, nothing aside from brute strength. But it seems he's gotten a recent powerup that changes things. That's a different story.

Because if it's classic Herc, he's just there to cheerlead for Thor.

http://thumbnails25.imagebam.com/8858/b8647788570798.jpg http://thumbnails9.imagebam.com/8858/4a321a88570807.jpg http://thumbnails20.imagebam.com/8858/03176c88570821.jpg

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Hercules_Thumbs_Up.jpg

zopzop
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I think it's safe to say that his at or approaching the Cosmic tier. At the very least, his above Skyfather level.


A) Who was he fighting? Looks like a ghetto version of the Silver Surfer

B) If that is the Surfer, it still don't make Herc anywhere near Skyfather level. Odin has SWATTED him like a fly. And I'm betting if he really wanted to, he could have insta-killed Norrin.

C) Why did he collapse after beating the ghetto Surfer up? Thanos has pummeled the Surfer to death with 8 or so punches and Thanos is under Skyfather level of power.

Stoic
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I think it's safe to say that his at or approaching the Cosmic tier. At the very least, his above Skyfather level.



http://thumbnails25.imagebam.com/8858/b8647788570798.jpg http://thumbnails9.imagebam.com/8858/4a321a88570807.jpg http://thumbnails20.imagebam.com/8858/03176c88570821.jpg

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Hercules_Thumbs_Up.jpg



That was cool, I'm still undecided, he passed out after so? Don't get me wrong, it was impressive, I question his stamina though.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by zopzop
A) Who was he fighting? Looks like a ghetto version of the Silver Surfer

B) If that is the Surfer, it still don't make Herc anywhere near Skyfather level. Odin has SWATTED him like a fly. And I'm betting if he really wanted to, he could have insta-killed Norrin.

C) Why did he collapse after beating the ghetto Surfer up? Thanos has pummeled the Surfer to death with 8 or so punches and Thanos is under Skyfather level of power.

Lol. I wasn't using that as evidence. I just felt you were underestimating Hercules. It's from an alternate Universe by the way. A great fight actually. Old school writers like Layton make me realize how shitty so many modern comics are.

That was the Silver Surfer but not Norrin Radd. A new herald of Galactus. Norrin had died.

Hercules is at the very least Skyfather level. He would solo this fight currently. His nearly as powerful as Thor nowadays you know.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus


Hercules is at the very least Skyfather level. He would solo this fight currently. His nearly as powerful as Thor nowadays you know. how is being weaker than thor make him a skyfather? your logic is silly

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Starscream M
how is being weaker than thor make him a skyfather? your logic is silly

Thor > Skyfathers

Starscream M
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor > Skyfathers ummm...are you drunk?

thor is high herald at best

thanos would be low skyfather

Tron
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Surfer beats thor.


And yet, Surfer and Thor have been shown to be on equal footing in each of their fights, with a slight edge to Thor.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Starscream M
ummm...are you drunk?

thor is high herald at best

thanos would be low skyfather

Thanos would be around Thor level on a good day.

High herald at best? That's not true. And I'm being serious here.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thanos would be around Thor level on a good day.

High herald at best? That's not true. And I'm being serious here. so does that make hulk skyfather too...cuz thor struggles and sometimes even loses to hulk.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thanos would be around Thor level on a good day.

High herald at best? That's not true. And I'm being serious here. rageing alcoholic

Rage.Of.Olympus
Lol.

Originally posted by Starscream M
so does that make hulk skyfather too...cuz thor struggles and sometimes even loses to hulk.

Thor struggles with the Hulk because he chooses to. The Hulk has only defeated Thor once in that memory sequence of Banner's.

Of course, you count non cannon shit so whatever.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Lol.



Thor struggles with the Hulk because he chooses to. The Hulk has only defeated Thor once in that memory sequence of Banner's.

Of course, you count non cannon shit so whatever. and you believe thor chooses to struggle. meh.

Stoic
So who's stronger? Hercules or the current Hulk?

Rage.Of.Olympus
He does. Joking aside, Thor chooses to engage Hulk in hand to hand. He doesn't have to. He could end the fight easily.

Stoic
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
He does. Joking aside, Thor chooses to engage Hulk in hand to hand. He doesn't have to. He could end the fight easily.


This remains to be seen.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Stoic
This remains to be seen.

It doesn't have to be seen. We know that it's the case and only the stupidest Gammatards would argue otherwise.

If Thor wants to end the Hulk or a battle with the Hulk, it will end. And Thor will come out on top.

Thor chooses to engage his opponents in hand to hand. He doesn't have to as seen on the occasions he chooses to battle field remove opponents and so on.

Stoic
Well in that case he wins via bfr, but to say that he wins in a physical contest against someone that beat Rulk on those same terms (h2h), is yet to be seen.

The same applies to Hercules, until he has surpasses the feats set by Hulk in the past 4 years there is no proof that either team would win.

Has Thor dropped in power since his fight with Rulk? If so things seem a little sketchy for him to dominate either of these guys since they have gotten upgrades, and Thor I assume is back to classic levels? Am I right at all about any of this?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Stoic
Well in that case he wins via bfr, but to say that he wins in a physical contest against someone that beat Rulk on those same terms (h2h), is yet to be seen.

Or through his superiority in power. Battle field removal is not the only option.

I don't think Thor is putting down Hulk hand to hand. He has, but that's outside the norm. The two would more than likely stalemate. At least they would have.

The Rulk beat down was stupid. Suddenly Banner Hulk can easily defeat Rulk? I know the issue was supposed to be a big apology to Hulk fans -even had She-Hulk beat down Red She-Hulk- but taking him out with a Thunder Clap and barely phasing the Hulk at all? It really brought his stock down.

Now Thor's going to push his shit in #26 and it's not going to even matter. Oh well, at least he showed that he could defeat Rulk in #6 while he still had that new villain smell.

Originally posted by Stoic
The same applies to Hercules, until he has surpassed the feats set by Hulk in the past 4 years there is no proof that either team would win.

erm

Hercules has gained omniscience and a power beyond Skyfathers. I doubt even Pak would write the Hulk as anything more than an insignificant annoyance to Hercules.

Originally posted by Stoic
Has Thor dropped in power since his fight with Rulk? If so things seem a little sketchy for him to dominate either of these guys since they have gotten upgrades, and Thor I assume is back to classic levels? Am I right at all about any of this?

Technically yes. In the second arc of JMS' Thor run it was revealed that he had some portion of the Odin Power since his return -f*cking Thor bags are there own worst enemies- but I doubt it will make any difference in his performance level.

Outside of the Bor fight, he was basically in classic mode.

Stoic
He would be sorely lacking in power based on the past. Classic Thor has never laid the Destroyer out. I recall the Destroyer giving him an extreme skeletal fracture back in the classic days. Rulk hung tough with Thor that could take on the Destroyer. It doesn't make sense, and seems to place Thor as the underdog, if plot and story would dictate.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Stoic
He would be sorely lacking in power based on the past.

What makes you say that?

Originally posted by Stoic
Classic Thor has never laid the Destroyer out.

So? And, Destroyer > Hulk.

Originally posted by Stoic
I recall the Destroyer giving him an extreme skeletal fracture back in the classic days.

Never happened. At best, an amped Destroyer was able to break the arm of a Thor was holding back. On the other hand, the Destroyer was able to grab Hulk in a bear hug, casually breaking his ribs.

Originally posted by Stoic
Rulk hung tough with Thor that could take on the Destroyer. It doesn't make sense, and seems to place Thor as the underdog, if plot and story would dictate.

Thor could always take on the Destroyer.

What?

Stoic
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What makes you say that?



So? And, Destroyer > Hulk.



Never happened. At best, an amped Destroyer was able to break the arm of a Thor was holding back. On the other hand, the Destroyer was able to grab Hulk in a bear hug, casually breaking his ribs.
.

Thor could always take on the Destroyer.

What?


Wait did you say that Thor was in the same weight class as the Destroyer, in his classic days? I've always seen Thor on the run against a superior force, I guess it's perspective.


A far weaker Hulk.



Amped? The Destroyer has always had Thor on the run, in every fight, except when he came back from the dead

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Stoic
Wait did you say that Thor was in the same weight class as the Destroyer, in his classic days? I've always seen Thor on the run against a superior force, I guess it's perspective.

Yes he was. Always has been except one particular fight.

How long has it been since you've read their battles?

Physically speaking, Thor didn't do anything against the Destroyer after his ressurection that he could not do in the past. Trading blows with the Destroyer evenly is something he has done before on various occasions.

Edit: To be fair, he was a bit on the run during their first fight from what I recall. And he makes it a habit to dodge the beam. But physically speaking, he always mans up and takes the Destroyer head on.

Stoic
But the Hulk grows in power, and this one seems to be able to get exponentially stronger in seconds.

If Hercules is at the moment infinity gem of power strong then they would likely win with him alone, but is he this powerful? The Hulk did some pretty impressive feats since his exile from earth to Sakaar till now. Herc has to prove that he is on the level, or beyond. The Hulk restrained a planet, and kept it from blowing up like Krypton. That was a feat.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Stoic
But the Hulk grows in power, and this one seems to be able to get exponentially stronger in seconds.

If Hercules is at the moment infinity gem of power strong then they would likely win with him alone, but is he this powerful? The Hulk did some pretty impressive feats since his exile from earth to Sakaar till now. Herc has to prove that he is on the level, or beyond. The Hulk restrained a planet, and kept it from blowing up like Krypton. That was a feat.

no expression

Are you honestly trying to argue that the Hulk will stand any chance of beating current Hercules? This isn't some vague power up along the lines of Universal Majestic. It was made clear that Hercules was upgraded to at least high end Skyfather levels. The writer(s) even said that Hercules is far more powerful than Zeus ever was. In other words, he is beyond the Hulk.

When Chaos War starts and he faces off Mikaboshi, you'll have all the feats you want.

IRCC, Vali was going to use the power Hercules gained to defeat the council of Skyfather god heads. That right there is an in comic book reference of power.

the ninjak
This is a stomp in Team One's favour.

byrdgang21
Unless Herc has gotten some new magical/godly powers a la Odin, I don't see how you can say that he is clearly over Hulk. This is BY FAR THE STRONGEST we've seen the Hulk and that's saying a lot. So if this only a physical upgrade for Herc, imo current Hulk should still be able to take the majority. The best I see Herc doing is stalemating.

A Thor and SS matchup is tricky too, because it seems everyone in the fight has been upgraded in the recent past. Although Thor has been kind of written inconsistently during his stretch, its hard to tell if he still basis upgraded powers or if he was downgraded back to classic levels. If its the latter I am inclined to go with SS.

Team 1 for majority.

Starscream M
Originally posted by byrdgang21
I don't see how you can say that he is clearly over Hulk. just like Hulk has limitless rage and strength, Rage possesses the fabled limitless supply of thor wankage. no expression

Lord_Talron
yet he actually manages to form good arguments o O

Starscream M
Originally posted by Lord_Talron
yet he actually manages to form good arguments o O really? saying Thor prefers to get pummeled doesn't strike me as a good argument

Lord_Talron
hes a norse god, the norse revel in battle

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Starscream M
really? saying Thor prefers to get pummeled doesn't strike me as a good argument

Did I not tell you that replying to posts without actually reading them was stupid?

He is clearly referring to my comments regarding Hercules' new upgrade. An upgrade that places him a fair bit above the Hulk.

Originally posted by Starscream M
really? saying Thor prefers to get pummeled doesn't strike me as a good argument

Thor enjoys combat. He chooses to engage his opponents in hand to hand. It falls under CIS.

What. Do. You. Not. Understand?

Your existence has made me reconsider my position on breeding control.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by byrdgang21
Unless Herc has gotten some new magical/godly powers a la Odin, I don't see how you can say that he is clearly over Hulk. This is BY FAR THE STRONGEST we've seen the Hulk and that's saying a lot. So if this only a physical upgrade for Herc, imo current Hulk should still be able to take the majority. The best I see Herc doing is stalemating.

Chaos War 1 preview:
http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?aid=37923

His upgrade is more than just physical.

Any Skyfather level character or above will push Hulk's shit in. Yes, even in a physical contest.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus


Any Skyfather level character or above will push Hulk's shit in. Yes, even in a physical contest. it's comments like these that make you seem very ignorant erm

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Starscream M
it's comments like these that make you seem very ignorant erm

Ignorant? I'd wager that I know a hell of a lot more about the Hulk than you do.

Your straight up loony if you think anyone on the level of Skyfather and above wouldn't destroy the Hulk in a hand to hand fight. 99% of the time he operates in the same class as Thor and Superman.

Hulk would fare about as well as he did Gaea. Or Klaatu. But he had some energy absorption factor going on. Or the female Sphinx but that was an alternate future.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Team two stomps in a spite thread. Current Hercules is like Cosmic level now.Ummmmm....no



Surfer would beat thor in a fight.Its simple.Surfer is just a little above thor.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Ignorant? I'd wager that I know a hell of a lot more about the Hulk than you do.

Your straight up loony if you think anyone on the level of Skyfather and above wouldn't destroy the Hulk in a hand to hand fight. 99% of the time he operates in the same class as Thor and Superman. well agreed that average hulk is under skyfather in physical contest

but WWH or World breaker hulk would push the shit in skyfather's faces in a purely physical contest. I could see WBH stomping Odin if Odin was foolish enough to engage in a melee fight.

Colossus-Big C
hercules a far above skyfather, his power is enough to defeat the coucil elite which is a union of about 20 skyfathers
he also gained omniscience with that power

current herc blinks and win that is beyond spite
classic herc beat up sentry and savage hulk

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Starscream M
well agreed that average hulk is under skyfather in physical contest

but WWH or World breaker hulk would push the shit in skyfather's faces in a purely physical contest. I could see WBH stomping Odin if Odin was foolish enough to engage in a melee fight.

Hahaha. No.

You might not know this, but Odin isn't limited to operating at the 70 ton level like it says in the hand books. His able to augment his strength by tapping into his well of power.

Odin is not going to do worse than the Juggernaut or the Sentry against the Green Scar you moron.

Anyone on Odin's level or above would put a fist through Hulk's face while shrugging of his attacks. Yes, even the fabled World Breaker.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Hahaha. No.

You might not know this, but Odin isn't limited to operating at the 70 ton level like it says in the hand books. His able to augment his strength by tapping into his well of power.

Odin is not going to do worse than the Juggernaut or the Sentry you moron against Green Scar. Anyone on Odin's level or above would put a fist through any Hulk's face while shrugging of this punches. Yes, even World Breaker. I don't know if at this point you're simply trolling or actually believe the nonsense you're spewing

WBH is in another physical class compared to Odin

Odin is not THAT powerful physically, he is above herald and around Thanos level

WBH transcends that...his walking was crushing continents...odin can't dream of doing that...even in his thousand year odinsleep smile

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Hahaha. No.

You might not know this, but Odin isn't limited to operating at the 70 ton level like it says in the hand books. His able to augment his strength by tapping into his well of power.

Odin is not going to do worse than the Juggernaut or the Sentry against the Green Scar you moron.

Anyone on Odin's level or above would put a fist through Hulk's face while shrugging of his attacks. Yes, even the fabled World Breaker. If odin is allowed to amp to his hearts content yes he is stompign WBH in physical.If he isn't allowed to amp I still see odin winning but it being a much better fight.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Ummmmm....no

What do you consider Cosmic then? Hercules has omniscience. The raw power he possesses is far beyond Zeus and is enough to defeat the Council of Godheads.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Surfer would beat thor in a fight.Its simple.Surfer is just a little above thor.

Really? Please explain to me how it's simple.

Surfer's just a little bit above Thor? Based on what? Because your clearly not taking into account their fights.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What do you consider Cosmic then? Hercules has omniscience. The raw power he possesses is far beyond Zeus and is enough to defeat the Council of Godheads.



Really? Please explain to me how it's simple.

Surfer's just a little bit above Thor? Based on what? Because your clearly not taking into account their fights. Hmmm...never heard of that.

I am.Surfer beats all in herald level.Even if only slightly.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Starscream M
I don't know if at this point you're simply trolling or actually believe the nonsense you're spewing

WBH is in another physical class compared to Odin

Odin is not THAT powerful physically, he is above herald and around Thanos level

WBH transcends that...his walking was crushing continents...odin can't dream of doing that...even in his thousand year odinsleep smile

no expression

Do you not understand that Odin can transfer his raw power into physical might? The raw power that allows him to bust easily bust Galaxies, alter reality, and create dimensions?

Odin will put a fist through Hulk's face while laughing off his attacks. Don't even get me started on beings above Odin. Hulk can rage and rage for a week and he won't do shit to Galactus unless his severely weakened.

A severely weakened, drained and poisoned Odin easily took out Ulik in one shot so even this 70 ton ranking is off.

You should re-read the appearances of World Breaker. Nowhere was he crushing continents.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
no expression

Do you not understand that Odin can transfer his raw power into physical might? The raw power that allows him to bust easily bust Galaxies, alter reality, and create dimensions?

I don't care about theoretical possibilities. What was odin's greatest display of PHYSICAL power?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Hmmm...never heard of that.

I am.Surfer beats all in herald level.Even if only slightly.

The new Prince of Power series. Vali -like Loki's fourth child- wanted the power Hercules gained to defeat the council and take over the pantheons of Earth.

The writer(s) recently stated that Hercules possesses power far beyond that of Zeus.

illadelph12
Meh.

Surfer, fighting smart, transmutes the air around Hercules and Thor's hands, arms, and feet into adamantium restraints in the first microseconds of battle so they can't fight back or move, or grasp their weapons (Mjolnir and Mace). He then puts a hypnotic suggestion and illusion into Hulk's mind so Thor and Hercules look like Miek and Glenn Talbot mocking him for Caiera's death and not being able to take care of his women, then he stands back and watches.

Starscream M
Originally posted by illadelph12
Meh.

Surfer, fighting smart, transmutes the air around Hercules and Thor's hands, arms, and feet into adamantium restraints in the first microseconds of battle so they can't fight back or move, or grasp their weapons (Mjolnir and Mace) or just encases the entirety of thor inside adamantium block

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Starscream M
I don't care about theoretical possibilities. What was odin's greatest display of PHYSICAL power?

What theoretical possibilities? We know that Odin can augment his physical might. Even if Odin had never done so on panel before it would logically be well within his abilities. When Heimdall was granted a small fraction of the Odin Power, he took a full on swing from Masterson Thor to the face and didn't even notice it.

Probably taking out Ulik in one hit. Odin is beyond simply physical displays of strength. When he looks like his slugging it out, he isn't just slugging it out:
http://thumbnails23.imagebam.com/9626/c171d796251572.jpghttp://thumbnails26.imagebam.com/9626/191e9596251607.jpg

Starscream M
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
When he looks like his slugging it out, he isn't just slugging it out:
http://thumbnails23.imagebam.com/9626/c171d796251572.jpghttp://thumbnails26.imagebam.com/9626/191e9596251607.jpg that example proves my point

odin's punch did nothing more than infuriate

odin once again relied on his energy attacks

listen, odin's physical abilities are nothing to brag about...WBH would trounce the old bag

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by illadelph12
Meh.

Surfer, fighting smart, transmutes the air around Hercules and Thor's hands, arms, and feet into adamantium restraints in the first microseconds of battle so they can't fight back or move, or grasp their weapons (Mjolnir and Mace). He then puts a hypnotic suggestion and illusion into Hulk's mind so Thor and Hercules look like Miek and Glenn Talbot mocking him for Caiera's death and not being able to take care of his women, then he stands back and watches.

Oh ho ho. So we get to make up fan fic eh?

Thor teleports himself out of the Adamantium restraints -his done so before- and then mentally orders Mjolnir to teleport inside of Norrin where it releases a blast of Anti-Force.

And I'm assuming -hoping- that this is classic Hercules in your scenario.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Starscream M
that example proves my point

odin's punch did nothing more than infuriate

odin once again relied on his energy attacks

listen, odin's physical abilities are nothing to brag about...WBH would trounce the old bag
http://www.dailydemotivators.com/pics/epicfail3-vi.jpg

Rage.Of.Olympus
I have officially lost hope for KMC.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I have officially lost hope for KMC. you should

you fail to back up your statements

Hulk's high-end physical feats (punching onslaught, crushing continental plates, etc) far outclasses odin's physical feats

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Starscream M
you should

you fail to back up your statements

Hulk's high-end physical feats (punching onslaught, crushing continental plates, etc) far outclasses odin's physical feats

Do you not know how to read you dumb piece of shit?

In the scene I posted, what we saw was a simple slug fest but in actuality it was a battle that was destroying Galaxies and was waged on every plane of reality.

If Odin turned his power into physical might -which he can- he would rip Hulk into pieces. Trying to argue otherwise is retarded.

Hulk never crushed continental plates. Stop making shit up. And breaking through Onslaught's armor isn't that great. Not if you realize it's what Onslaught wanted.

Colossus-Big C
thor is more powerful than surfer
do people just ignore feats now and place there own opnions?
thor has transmutation powers

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
do people just ignore feats now and place there own opnions?

Pretty late.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
And breaking through Onslaught's armor isn't that great. Not if you realize it's what Onslaught wanted. I love how you spin everything against hulk...you should really consider going into PR as a career...seriously

yes, onslaught wanted his armor to be cracked...yet no one else COULD (including Thor). Only Hulk, through his rage, had the capacity to crush it. That was a heck of an impressive feat...so don't lowball it just cuz it wasn't goldilocks who did it.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Starscream M
I love how you spin everything against hulk...you should really consider going into PR as a career...seriously

yes, onslaught wanted his armor to be cracked...yet no one else COULD (including Thor). Only Hulk, through his rage, had the capacity to crush it. That was a heck of an impressive feat...so don't lowball it just cuz it wasn't goldilocks who did it.

What about the rest of my post? We were discussing how Hulk matches up to Odin.

I can debate the Onslaught scene but I don't want to right now. I'm focusing on one particular stupidity of yours.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Black bolt z
If odin is allowed to amp to his hearts content yes he is stompign WBH in physical.If he isn't allowed to amp I still see odin winning but it being a much better fight.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What about the rest of my post? We were discussing how Hulk matches up to Odin.

I can debate the Onslaught scene but I don't want to right now. I'm focusing on one particular stupidity of yours. the rest of your post regarding odin's fight breaking stars and planets is the result of an era of hyperbole long since passed

comics aren't written like that anymore

if odin fought today, he would leave a trail of destruction like that of bor vs thor, maybe a bit more, but certainly not of the magnitude of planet shaking proportions

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Starscream M
the rest of your post regarding odin's fight breaking stars and planets is the result of an era of hyperbole long since passed

comics aren't written like that anymore

if odin fought today, he would leave a trail of destruction like that of bor vs thor, maybe a bit more, but certainly not of the magnitude of planet shaking proportions

An era of hyperbole long since passed? It came out in the very late 90's.

Written like what exactly? Narration describing the "epicness" of a battle or a character etc.? That's not true at all.

I don't really care what you think what would happen.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Written like what exactly? Narration describing the "epicness" of a battle or a character etc.? That's not true at all.

'reigniting dying stars'...what garbage. come on rage, use a little common sense, that's simply literary flourish. galactus doesn't even reignite dying stars when he fights and he's on a power level above Odin.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Starscream M
'reigniting dying stars'...what garbage. come on rage, use a little common sense, that's simply literary flourish. galactus doesn't even reignite dying stars when he fights and he's on a power level above Odin.

I've seen Thor absorb the power to destroy a Galaxy and reignite a dying Star. I have no problem with Odin doing it.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I've seen Thor absorb the power to destroy a Galaxy and reignite a dying Star. I have no problem with Odin doing it. that's very different. thor deliberately reigniting a star is believable.

but i guess we can just agree to disagree, I believe that odin scan is more literary flourish and hyperbole whereas you take it more at face value. *shrugs*

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Starscream M
that's very different. thor deliberately reigniting a star is believable.

but i guess we can just agree to disagree, I believe that odin scan is more literary flourish and hyperbole whereas you take it more at face value. *shrugs*

While Odin doing it as an after effect of a battle is not? His much more powerful than Thor.

I'm not going to assume the narration was lying to me.

h1a8
Originally posted by iceman24567
Thor can bring Herc back no expression Leaving the battlefield isn't allowed.

h1a8
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus




Thor could always take on the Destroyer.

What?

I don't count being able to survive a little while as being able to take on something. Especially when you can do no damage whatsoever and are guaranteed to get killed eventually.

zopzop
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus


I'm not going to assume the narration was lying to me.

He doesn't necessarily have to be lying, he could be exaggerating. big grin

h1a8
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
no expression

Do you not understand that Odin can transfer his raw power into physical might? The raw power that allows him to bust easily bust Galaxies, alter reality, and create dimensions?

Odin will put a fist through Hulk's face while laughing off his attacks. Don't even get me started on beings above Odin. Hulk can rage and rage for a week and he won't do shit to Galactus unless his severely weakened.

A severely weakened, drained and poisoned Odin easily took out Ulik in one shot so even this 70 ton ranking is off.

You should re-read the appearances of World Breaker. Nowhere was he crushing continents.

Odin can't do no such thing. If Odin can augment his physical abilities then the extent and time it takes remains unknown. Thus we must go by showings. And by showings Odin was never shown to be as physically strong as WWH. And the busting galaxy feat isn't necessary valid. It could have been hyperbole or the fact that both were fighting a long time and both contributed (not just one) to it. This is like when both Thor's struck hammers, it had an effect on the entire universe. Thor alone can't do even a fraction of that feat on his own.

zopzop
Originally posted by h1a8
This is like when both Thor's struck hammers, it had an effect on the entire universe.

WTF?! Marvel has officially jumped the shark. confused

Stoic
I have to agree with Rage on this thread, Thor however is iffy. If Herc is High Sky Father, then this is a stomp in Team 2's favor. They would have too much power, and not even need to go h2h. Has Thor mastered placing people in eldritch containment bubbles like Odin used to do?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by h1a8
I don't count being able to survive a little while as being able to take on something. Especially when you can do no damage whatsoever and are guaranteed to get killed eventually.

You haven't read most of their fights have you? When Thor takes on the Destroyer in hand to hand, he holds his own. He goes toe to toe with it despite it being nigh invulnerable and having infinite stamina. He just eventually gets worn out at times.

It's like fighting a stronger, tougher, more powerful and versatile Juggernaut.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by h1a8
Odin can't do no such thing.

What are you referring to?

Originally posted by h1a8
If Odin can augment his physical abilities then the extent and time it takes remains unknown. Thus we must go by showings. And by showings Odin was never shown to be as physically strong as WWH.

True. The Odin Force has shown it can amp up beings to a level beyond Hulk physically. Odin can operate on an entirely different scale. There's simply no competition.

Originally posted by h1a8
And the busting galaxy feat isn't necessary valid. It could have been hyperbole or the fact that both were fighting a long time and both contributed (not just one) to it. This is like when both Thor's struck hammers, it had an effect on the entire universe. Thor alone can't do even a fraction of that feat on his own.

Hahaha. Your such a f*cking hypocrite. Do you remember the time you jumped all over the Superman space/time barrier shattering feat?

Why not? Nowhere did it state that the energies somehow skyrocketed. 1+1=/=10. In that comic Thor could at the very least equal half that force.

It wasn't a galaxy. It was galaxies and Odin has done feats on that scale more than once.They weren't fighting a long time. In total they fought for a few pages before that scene. Don't try and write that scene as a result of some extended release of power. It's just asinine. They were operating on a massive scale from the get go:
http://thumbnails21.imagebam.com/9633/91362a96324685.jpghttp://thumbnails25.imagebam.com/9633/eccb6196324705.jpghttp://thumbnails33.imagebam.com/9633/7a4bfb96324724.jpghttp://thumbnails23.imagebam.com/9633/e6f1e096324740.jpghttp://thumbnails23.imagebam.com/9633/ee934096324756.jpg

Rage.Of.Olympus
http://thumbnails28.imagebam.com/9633/e30e4596324788.jpghttp://thumbnails32.imagebam.com/9633/c171d796324806.jpghttp://thumbnails32.imagebam.com/9633/191e9596324828.jpghttp://thumbnails26.imagebam.com/9633/fc97ba96324840.jpghttp://thumbnails33.imagebam.com/9633/f487eb96324852.jpg

zopzop
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
http://thumbnails28.imagebam.com/9633/e30e4596324788.jpghttp://thumbnails32.imagebam.com/9633/c171d796324806.jpghttp://thumbnails32.imagebam.com/9633/191e9596324828.jpghttp://thumbnails26.imagebam.com/9633/fc97ba96324840.jpghttp://thumbnails33.imagebam.com/9633/f487eb96324852.jpg

Are those scans a joke?

I mean "You really messed up old man!" coming from the Egyptian Death God? Really?

What issue is this? I can't believe crap like this was actually produced.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Journey Into the Mystery #513. That issue was fine. I didn't have any problem with Seth's dialogue. His almost always been an arrogant schmuck. That was written by DeFalco, the same guy who has probably written a great deal of Seth's most well known appearances.

zopzop
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Journey Into the Mystery #513. That issue was fine. I didn't have any problem with Seth's dialogue. His almost always been an arrogant schmuck. That was written by DeFalco, the same guy who has probably written a great deal of Seth's most well known appearances.

"oh so obvious" and "that's gonna cost you" from an Egyptian Deity? Like so totally bogus!

LOL "No power in the Universe can match me" coming from Seth? Galaxies crumbling? You really believe this happened with nothing being shown on panel even remotely suggesting this?

Greater beings than Odin and Seth have thrown down and have done less damage than what was suggested by the narrator.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by zopzop
"oh so obvious" and "that's gonna cost you" from an Egyptian Deity? Like so totally bogus!

LOL "No power in the Universe can match me" coming from Seth? Galaxies crumbling? You really believe this happened with nothing being shown on panel even remotely suggesting this?

Greater beings than Odin and Seth have thrown down and have done less damage than what was suggested by the narrator.

So your main problem is not the dialogue but the power level? Your one of those people who have preconceived notions of Odin?

I'm sure they weren't operating on that level. Clearly Doctor Strange and Silver Surfer were just f*cking with us for the lulz.

http://thumbnails33.imagebam.com/9633/7a4bfb96324724.jpghttp://thumbnails23.imagebam.com/9633/ee934096324756.jpg

I mean, it's not as if Odin never operated on a Galaxy busting level before or anything. Oh wait:
http://thumbnails25.imagebam.com/9633/6b597096327939.jpghttp://thumbnails30.imagebam.com/9633/b8899796327945.jpghttp://thumbnails23.imagebam.com/9633/3b7b0d96327954.jpg

Surtur once destroy an entire Galaxy forging a Sword. A portion of the Odin Force once created an entire dimension. Full of their own Gods and everything.

Id' bet you'd hate it if Odin was returned to former glory. He'd then be up there with Cosmics in both presentation and feats.

h1a8
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What are you referring to? To the speculation that Odin can turn all his power into physical might. Odin may be able to become on Hulk's average level but not more due to non showings.


How can you amp someone beyond a being who's strength isn't constant? This is faulty logic. Odin at best IMO can physically amp to average Hulk level, nothing more.


Ever heard of a blacklash. Apparently, it could be a backlash of the source of where the hammer's magic is coming from. Meaning, they caused an unstable rift from the source of the hammer's power to the hammers. This made the feat. Screw the half, Thor in his entire history never did anything that resembles a small fraction of that.
I was referring to the other fight. Odin has three fights where it mentions galaxies falling. I'm saying that the feat is vague. It still is not clear that Odin can sit there and one shot blast a galaxy to destruction. I believe it takes either time or a chain reaction. If a chain reaction then the force needed to start the reaction is very small compared to the actual destruction. Exactly like how Thanos and Drax indirectly destroyed a planet.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You haven't read most of their fights have you? When Thor takes on the Destroyer in hand to hand, he holds his own. He goes toe to toe with it despite it being nigh invulnerable and having infinite stamina. He just eventually gets worn out at times.

It's like fighting a stronger, tougher, more powerful and versatile Juggernaut. That's what I said. My point is that Thor is just buying time, nothing more. This is like Spidey fighting Juggernaut. It is only a matter of time before Spidey dies.
Claiming Spider-man can go toe to toe with the Juggernaut is simply misleading people into thinking he has a chance to win, when he doesn't.

zopzop
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So your main problem is not the dialogue but the power level? Your one of those people who have preconceived notions of Odin?

I'm sure they weren't operating on that level. Clearly Doctor Strange and Silver Surfer were just f*cking with us for the lulz.

http://thumbnails33.imagebam.com/9633/7a4bfb96324724.jpghttp://thumbnails23.imagebam.com/9633/ee934096324756.jpg


Nothing was shown on panel to suggest that galaxies or anything were being destroyed (hell where were the stars being reignited being shown on panel?). I thought the issue was a joke because the dialogue and narration was atrocious (even for a comic).



I don't see a galaxy being destroyed. At BEST I see a solar system taking a beating. And he wasn't saying he can destroy a galaxy. Read the text again.



Anyone have a scan? I find it amazing that he destroys an entire galaxy to forge his sword, yet a final showdown involving all the gods and demons in Asgard can't even destroy the Earth's solar system.

Do you know the size difference between a galaxy and a solar system?




"Dimensions" vary in size. I seem to recall in the 85 issue of the Handbook of the Marvel Universe where they showed the Nine Worlds of the Norse, Midgard (EARTH) was the largest!




I just have a problem believing a guy that got OWNED repeatedly by the Celestials is rocking the multiverse. Seeing as how they have NEVER been shown doing half the things he's claimed as doing.

They owned his ass when he had back up from 2 other Skyfathers. They owned his ass after he had 1000 years prep and was boosted with the Destroyer armor (who other Godheads also lent a portion of their power to create).

amnesia
Monarch destroyed a universe, he is skyfather level IMO.

zopzop
Originally posted by amnesia
Monarch destroyed a universe, he is skyfather level IMO.

Monarch is DC no? DC != Marvel. Marvel USED to have the saner hierarchy of powers and principalities. DC's is a jumbled mess.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by zopzop
Nothing was shown on panel to suggest that galaxies or anything were being destroyed (hell where were the stars being reignited being shown on panel?). I thought the issue was a joke because the dialogue and narration was atrocious (even for a comic).

So I take it you don't know how to read? Strange said that Galaxies were being imperiled and a great upheaval was tearing at the fabric of the Multiverse. Surfer stated he felt forces powerful enough to rock this entire continuum.

These statement prove -there's no need but your threatened by Odin's showing of power- that what the narration said wasn't simply flowery dialogue. Odin and Seth were operating on that scale. A scale on which Galaxies are destroyed as an aftershock.

Further -although unnecessary- proof:

".....the Universe in my mind...and it was screaming in mortal agony. I-it was like watching the death throes of reality as we know it."

http://thumbnails28.imagebam.com/9633/e30e4596324788.jpg

Originally posted by zopzop
I don't see a galaxy being destroyed. At BEST I see a solar system taking a beating. And he wasn't saying he can destroy a galaxy. Read the text again.

no expression

If your going to troll me, make it clear from the get go so I won't waste my time. Or do you really have the inability to read the text in my scans?

"Though planets crumble -- though galaxies fall --"

http://thumbnails30.imagebam.com/9633/b8899796327945.jpg

Originally posted by zopzop
Anyone have a scan? I find it amazing that he destroys an entire galaxy to forge his sword, yet a final showdown involving all the gods and demons in Asgard can't even destroy the Earth's solar system.

Do you know the size difference between a galaxy and a solar system?

http://thumbnails28.imagebam.com/9634/b966f496331753.jpghttp://thumbnails23.imagebam.com/9634/36229596331761.jpghttp://thumbnails31.imagebam.com/9634/d263fe96331771.jpghttp://thumbnails15.imagebam.com/9634/55cba396331788.jpg

Originally posted by zopzop
"Dimensions" vary in size. I seem to recall in the 85 issue of the Handbook of the Marvel Universe where they showed the Nine Worlds of the Norse, Midgard (EARTH) was the largest!

http://thumbnails33.imagebam.com/9634/d5fe4496332476.jpg

A dimension/alternate reality. It seemed to be akin to the 8 worlds -excluding Midgard- that we know as it had dwarves etc.

Funny you should mention Midgard. Loki used Odin's magic blessed in a Golden Apple to warp the Midgardian dimension and at the end of the story it was again used to restore the MU proper.

http://thumbnails33.imagebam.com/9634/d5fe4496332476.jpg

Originally posted by zopzop
I just have a problem believing a guy that got OWNED repeatedly by the Celestials is rocking the multiverse. Seeing as how they have NEVER been shown doing half the things he's claimed as doing.

They owned his ass when he had back up from 2 other Skyfathers. They owned his ass after he had 1000 years prep and was boosted with the Destroyer armor (who other Godheads also lent a portion of their power to create).

That was the Celestial's introduction into the Mainstream Universe. Some people believe Odin was jobbed out and this started his spiral from power, but people don't seem to realize that Celestials were at the time beyond other Cosmic beings. I doubt Galactus would have fared any better than Odin.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
When Chaos War starts and he faces off Mikaboshi, you'll have all the feats you want. but for some reason call the hulk for help smile

zopzop
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So I take it you don't know to read? Strange said that Galaxies were being imperiled and a great upheaval was tearing at the fabric of the Multiverse. Surfer stated he felt forces powerful enough to rock this entire continuum.

These statement prove -there's no need but your clearly threatened by Odin's showing of power- that what was narration wasn't simply flowery dialogue. Odin and Seth were operating on that scale. A scale on which Galaxies are destroyed as an aftershock.

Further -although unnecessary- proof:

".....the Universe in my mind...and it was screaming in mortal agony. I-it was like watching the death throes of reality as we know it."

http://thumbnails28.imagebam.com/9633/e30e4596324788.jpg



Ok let me get this straight. You expect me to believe all that is going on when two nobodies (in the Cosmic Scheme of things) are throwing down?

Nothing this level was even suggested when Thanos with the Full IG took on all the Cosmic Pantheon. At best we were shown a solar system being vaporized.

Nothing this level went down when Tiamut threw down vs the Second Host of Celestials.

Nothing this level went down when Quasar backed by all the power of Infinity took on Anomaly Maelstrom backed by Oblivion.

I call bullshit. I don't see galaxies dying, stars igniting, or anyone above the level of the Silver Surfer breaking a sweat that these guys are having a slap fight.



It's called a figure of speech. That's like saying "I'll stand my ground come hell or high water!"

I DO NOT see a galaxy being destroyed. I googled around and even on other forums they dispute that a galaxy (let alone galaxies) were being destroyed in that scan.



Incredible, yet the full force of the gods and demons in Asgard didn't even shake our Solar System. This raises another question, did Surtur cause the explosion or was he simply taking advantage of a dying galaxy?



See my above comment regarding "feats" like this compared to things like the IG.





And since then? Thor in the Atlantis Attacks Annual came out and said his father's power (and the rest of the Earth Gods) are as nothing before the Celestials. And yet they've never been shown doing the things that Seth/Odin fight supposedly did.

amnesia
Your only argument is that If X can't do it X has no chance of doing it, even if he did it.

zopzop
Originally posted by amnesia
Your only argument is that If X can't do it X has no chance of doing it, even if he did it.

No that's not it.

Nothing on panel matched what the narrator was saying. No being higher in power levels than the Silver Surfer seemed to be alarmed by their fight (or even aware of it).

When beings whose power levels DWARF (DWARF by large margins) Odin/Seth fought, not even a fraction of the stuff that was supposed to be happening in the Odin/Seth fight went down.

So I call bullshit.

Rage.Of.Olympus
That's exactly what your argument is. Your just b*thing and moaning because you can't accept Odin's feats. Shut the f*ck up and stop the whining. It happened. Odin's operated on this scale more than once. Deal with it. Comics don't follow your preconceived notions.

Originally posted by zopzop
Ok let me get this straight. You expect me to believe all that is going on when two nobodies (in the Cosmic Scheme of things) are throwing down?

Nothing this level was even suggested when Thanos with the Full IG took on all the Cosmic Pantheon. At best we were shown a solar system being vaporized.

Nothing this level went down when Tiamut threw down vs the Second Host of Celestials.

Nothing this level went down when Quasar backed by all the power of Infinity took on Anomaly Maelstrom backed by Oblivion.

I call bullshit. I don't see galaxies dying, stars igniting, or anyone above the level of the Silver Surfer breaking a sweat that these guys are having a slap fight.

Translation: Moan, B*tch , Moan, B*tch.

Please come up with an actual argument then get back to me.

Originally posted by zopzop
It's called a figure of speech. That's like saying "I'll stand my ground come hell or high water!"

I DO NOT see a galaxy being destroyed. I googled around and even on other forums they dispute that a galaxy (let alone galaxies) were being destroyed in that scan.

Hahaha, figure of speech. Your arguments so far have been so laughably poor and fragile, it's sad.

Odin straight up said Galaxies were falling while we see cataclysmic destruction. Seeing as this came out in like 1969, there is nothing wrong with that depiction. Odin and the rogue Infinity were in a battle for the Universe.

http://thumbnails28.imagebam.com/9634/781a2f96335652.jpghttp://thumbnails28.imagebam.com/9634/39a36a96335654.jpghttp://thumbnails21.imagebam.com/9634/3cc2eb96335658.jpghttp://thumbnails21.imagebam.com/9634/dad20896335659.jpghttp://thumbnails22.imagebam.com/9634/53a8af96335661.jpg

I don't give a rat's ass about what a bunch of idiots on other forums say. This is about as clear cut as sh*t can get.

One more time:
"The power of the scepter seems to shake the entire Universe with it's ever expanding energy."

"So overpowering.. so uncontrollable..is this violent upheaval of limitless energy, that it shatters dead planets as if they are ant-hills...as the heat of it's passing leaves new burning Suns in it's Galaxy wide wake"

http://thumbnails26.imagebam.com/9634/cdbdf196334636.jpghttp://thumbnails33.imagebam.com/9634/32948796334649.jpghttp://thumbnails4.imagebam.com/9634/56d42b96334655.jpg

Originally posted by zopzop
Incredible, yet the full force of the gods and demons in Asgard didn't even shake our Solar System. This raises another question, did Surtur cause the explosion or was he simply taking advantage of a dying galaxy?

See my above comment regarding "feats" like this compared to things like the IG.

Translation: Moan, B*tch, Moan, B*tch.

Please come up with an actual argument then get back to me.

Originally posted by zopzop
And since then? Thor in the Atlantis Attacks Annual came out and said his father's power (and the rest of the Earth Gods) are as nothing before the Celestials. And yet they've never been shown doing the things that Seth/Odin fight supposedly did.

Writers read their first fight and went along with it. That Annual compared Odin's power to that of a Cosmic Cube, and Odin was at least on Galactus' level going by it.

That annual isn't a knock against Odin. Going by it he was still a Cosmic power house. The Celestials were simply the next step in the Cosmic food chain.

zopzop
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Translation: Moan, *****, Moan, *****.

Please come up with an actual argument then get back to me.



Hahaha, figure of speech. Your arguments so far have been so laughably poor and fragile, it's sad.

Odin straight up said Galaxies were falling while we see cataclysmic destruction. Seeing as this came out in like 1969, there is nothing wrong with that depiction. Odin and the rogue Infinity were in a battle for the Universe. I don't give a rat's ass about what a bunch of idiots on other forums say. This is about as clear cut as sh*t can get.

One more time:
"The power of the scepter seems to shake the entire Universe with it's ever expanding energy."

"So overpowering.. so uncontrollable..is this violent upheaval of limitless energy, that it shatters dead planets as if they are ant-hills...as the heat of it's passing leaves new burning Suns in it's Galaxy wide wake"

http://thumbnails26.imagebam.com/9634/cdbdf196334636.jpghttp://thumbnails33.imagebam.com/9634/32948796334649.jpghttp://thumbnails4.imagebam.com/9634/56d42b96334655.jpg



Translation: Moan, *****, Moan, *****.

Please come up with an actual argument then get back to me.



Writers read their first fight and went along with it. That Annual compared Odin's power to that of a Cosmic Cube, and Odin was at least on Galactus' level going by it.

That annual isn't a knock against Odin. Going by it he was still a Cosmic power house. The Celestials were simply the next step in the Cosmic food chain.

And here we go. You are going to tell me, with a straight face no less, that Odin and Seth throwing down had more scope and influence than :

Infinity vs Oblivion

Thanos with the IG vs the Cosmic Pantheon

Tiamut vs the entire Second Host

Galactus vs FP Tyrant

Galactus vs Inbetweener

Even if none of it was shown on panel, even if the highest level "cosmic" being that mentions it is the Silver Surfer? If you say yes, we're done.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by zopzop
And here we go. You are going to tell me, with a straight face no less, that Odin and Seth throwing down had more scope and influence than :

Infinity vs Oblivion

Thanos with the IG vs the Cosmic Pantheon

Tiamut vs the entire Second Host

Galactus vs FP Tyrant

Galactus vs Inbetweener

Even if none of it was shown on panel, even if the highest level "cosmic" being that mentions it is the Silver Surfer? If you say yes, we're done.

STOP. Stop using that horribly fallacious logic.

I don't care if it proves Odin > TOAA. I don't give a shit that these feats make your vagina all sandy. I could care less if you accept it or not.

It however did happen. Directly stated and supported. On panel. There is no disputing that. Acting as if you have some legit argument is just pathetic. I wouldn't care if you admitted that you don't like these scenes. But pretending that they didn't happen or the narration was lying to us is just downright stupid.

It was clear from the start that the power Odin displayed was what made you squirm. Lulz at you initially trying to pass it off as being bad dialogue or whatever.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
make your vagina all sandy. mmm

zopzop
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
STOP. Stop using that horribly fallacious logic.

I don't care if it proves Odin > TOAA. I don't give a shit that these feats make your vagina all sandy. I could care less if you accept it or not.

It however did happen. Directly stated and supported. On panel. There is no disputing that. Acting as if you have some legit argument is just pathetic. I wouldn't care if you admitted that you don't like these scenes. But pretending that they didn't happen or the narration was lying to us is just downright stupid.

I don't accept it because it's not SHOWN ON PANEL. Do you understand? I don't accept it because greater than Odin/Seth have thrown down and not even a fraction of the crap the narrator said happened. I don't accept it because nothing higher in power level than the Silver Surfer even acknowledged it.

Was the Watcher asleep?

The Cosmic Pantheon bum rushes Thanos with the IG and a few solar systems are wiped out.

Order, Chaos, Celestials, Galactus, Eon, Stranger, Love, Hate, and a few more I'm probably missing can't muster the same amount of power to "rock the multiverse" or even merely destroy a galaxy like Odin/Seth can?

Seth really believes no power in the Universe can match his? Do you believe that statement is true? WTF was going on in that issue.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by zopzop
I don't accept it because it's not SHOWN ON PANEL. Do you understand? I don't accept it because greater than Odin/Seth have thrown down and not even a fraction of the crap the narrator said happened. I don't accept it because nothing higher in power level than the Silver Surfer even acknowledged it.

Was the Watcher asleep?

Your argument is based on the assumption that the narration lied to us multiple times. Silver Surfer lied to us. Doctor Strange lied to us. And Jean Grey lied to us. Your entire argument is based on incredible absurd view of things.

It's one thing arguing that you don't accept or like the feats. Trying to create an argument on the basis that it might not have happened when it clearly did is f*cking stupid and a waste of my time.

Originally posted by zopzop
The Cosmic Pantheon bum rushes Thanos with the IG and a few solar systems are wiped out.

Order, Chaos, Celestials, Galactus, Eon, Stranger, Love, Hate, and a few more I'm probably missing can't muster the same amount of power to "rock the multiverse" or even merely destroy a galaxy like Odin/Seth can?

Seth really believes no power in the Universe can match his? Do you believe that statement is true? WTF was going on in that issue.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
STOP. Stop using that horribly fallacious logic.

I don't care if it proves Odin > TOAA. I don't give a shit that these feats make your vagina all sandy. I could care less if you accept it or not.

It however did happen. Directly stated and supported. On panel.


facepalm @ using common villain boasting as some sort of evidence.

zopzop
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Your argument is based on the assumption that the narration lied to us multiple times. Silver Surfer lied to us. Doctor Strange lied to us. And Jean Grey lied to us. Your entire argument is based on incredible absurd view of things.

It's one thing arguing that you don't accept or like the feats. Trying to create an argument on the basis that it might not have happened when it clearly did is f*cking stupid and a waste of my time.





facepalm @ using common villain boasting as some sort of evidence.

They don't have to be lying, they can be mistaken. Why aren't any of the higher ups in the Cosmic Scheme of things commenting on the galaxy busting, multiverse shaking throw down. Usually at least a Watcher is keeping score of these types of things.

Beings whose power level makes Odin/Seth seem like insects haven't been shown doing what the narrator would have us believe (with no on panel collaboration by the way) Odin/Seth are doing INDIRECTLY (they weren't even trying to bust galaxies just square off).

In your opinion, who is more powerful than Odin, I just want to gauge how high you regard him :

the Phoenix Force
the Goblin Entity
any Celestial
fed Galactus
FP Tyrant
Order
Chaos
In-betweener
Zom
Infinity
Eternity
Death
Oblivion

You don't have to give me an explanation. Just tell me which, if any, beings on that list dwarf Odin in power.

iceman24567
So the rocking of the multiverse feat is being wanked again no expression. Team one wins

Damborgson
bump

psycho gundam
hulk solos whistle

Naija boy
^ probably.

Horrificus
Surfer against Thor? I don't think it is as cut and dry as people say.
IMO both of these characters have been shown to have abilities waaaaay beyond the stuff that is normally shown.
At one point or another, both have been shown to be able to do pretty much anything they want.
The tools they have are way off the scale. This includes Thor.
If anything, when Thor is not being portrayed as a complete Dolt, he may even have more tricks up his sleeve than the Surfer.
They have been shown to have energy manipulation, matter manipulation, maybe some time travel stuff in there, speed feats, etc, etc, etc.

But, when they fight the Hulk or Wolverine and other fan-favorites, they suddenly only know how to "box". Hehe.

carver9
Hulk solos.

Starscream M
Originally posted by carver9
Hulk solos. lmfao. classic carver.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Green Scar isn't soloing at all with Thor on the other team unless he goes World Breaker and we're as likely to see that as the God Blast now that Pak's done.

carver9
Did Hulk get depowered because nothing has been stated otherwise that he has?

Starscream M
Originally posted by carver9
Did Hulk get depowered because nothing has been stated otherwise that he has? carver, while I agree hulk can solo thor, saying he can solo both thor and herc is a bit overboard, don't you think?

what makes you think he's that powerful?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by carver9
Did Hulk get depowered because nothing has been stated otherwise that he has?

He might as well be.

Pak went overboard with that Heart of the Monster arc and it'll be almost certainly ignored now that he's gone.

If World Breaker Hulk pops up, it'll be in the most extreme of circumstances.

carver9
Originally posted by Starscream M
carver, while I agree hulk can solo thor, saying he can solo both thor and herc is a bit overboard, don't you think?

what makes you think he's that powerful?

Because he didn't even acknowledge 2 physical beings that would probably beat Herc to sleep and he didn't even acknowledge Armageddon, the same person that ran through Surfer and Merged Hulk in 3 panels. To ignore 2 beings that physically matched Savage Hulk and one being that ran through Surfer and Merged Hulk the way Armageddon did without even flinching from their attacks is enough proof for me.

Thor would have to pull out his most exotic, most powerful attacks to even get this version of Hulk to even recognize him. Let's also not forget, the impact between WBH and She Rulk destroyed the planet along with nearby planets but after the explosion, Hulk didn't even have a scratch on him...the guy was standing on a cliff with a smile on his face after a greater than planetary explosion hit him.

Hulk solos. Rage, there is nothing indicated that Hulk has been depowered.

Starscream M
ok, didn't know hulk got a massive powerup recently.

carver9
Originally posted by Starscream M
ok, didn't know hulk got a massive powerup recently.

Just for you starscream.




http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1572/84259184.th.jpg http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/5397/86906047.th.jpg http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/8480/88695740.th.jpg http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/1763/39432975.th.jpg http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/4170/89944442.th.jpg http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7551/94565109.th.jpg http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/5367/70848220.th.jpg http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/5607/81615084.th.jpg

abhilegend
So does world breaker hulk battles with mutated sharks? Heart of the monster was hulk's version of blood and thunder or OWAW or circle of fire etc. It's foolish to think that only one showing that's likely to be ignored is hulk's norm now.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by carver9
Thor would have to pull out his most exotic, most powerful attacks to even get this version of Hulk to even recognize him.

Hulk solos. Rage, there is nothing indicated that Hulk has been depowered.

Sorry bro, but Thor's absolute best puts World Breaker or any version of the Hulk down. Maybe with another dozen power ups under a fanboy writer and he'll be able to compete. If Thor ever had someone like that penning him. Eternity better watch out.

How about you apply some common sense? Hulk isn't going to be operating at his Heart of the Monster levels.

However, I do find it amusing that your flawed reasoning can easily back fire. After all, if current Hulk is operating at those levels, doesn't that mean that Thor took that Hulk on despite another power up? smile

carver9
Originally posted by abhilegend
So does world breaker hulk battles with mutated sharks? Heart of the monster was hulk's version of blood and thunder or OWAW or circle of fire etc. It's foolish to think that only one showing that's likely to be ignored is hulk's norm now.

Let's not pretend that the scene that provided above is the only time he displayed that type of power. It was "consistent" and happened on will and happened too many times for it to even be compared to the list you made in your post.


http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/8094152_Incredible_Hulks_632_008.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/8094154_Incredible_Hulks_632_009.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/8094156_Incredible_Hulks_632_012.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/8094158_Incredible_Hulks_632_013.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/8094162_Incredible_Hulks_632_014.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/8094165_Incredible_Hulks_632_015.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/8094167_Incredible_Hulks_632_016.jpg

WBH is him...its his natural ability and him operating at those levels happened enough for it to be used as a valid argument.

carver9
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Sorry bro, but Thor's absolute best puts World Breaker or any version of the Hulk down. Maybe with another dozen power ups under a fanboy writer and he'll be able to compete. If Thor ever had someone like that penning him. Eternity better watch out.

How about you apply some common sense? Hulk isn't going to be operating at his Heart of the Monster levels.

However, I do find it amusing that your flawed reasoning can easily back fire. After all, if current Hulk is operating at those levels, doesn't that mean that Thor took that Hulk on despite another power up? smile

Rage, I'm not discussing this with you again. Hulk has the ability to power up and power down at will...so you honestly isn't making any sense with your stance. Like I said...even though current Hulk isn't operating at WBH levels doeant mean he can't will.himself to those levels like he did in the past.

By the way, I wasn't impressed with Thor showing against Nul.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by carver9
Rage, I'm not discussing this with you again. Hulk has the ability to power up and power down at will...so you honestly isn't making any sense with your stance. Like I said...even though current Hulk isn't operating at WBH levels doeant mean he can't will.himself to those levels like he did in the past.

By the way, I wasn't impressed with Thor showing against Nul.

Hulk was possessed by a powerful entity that made him stronger than before, not seeing the flaw. Perhaps, but like Thor with Warrior Madness, high end lighting bolts, the God Blast etc. mentioning it in a thread without some special circumstance like going "all out" etc. is stupid (Scenario 2 may count). It's not the norm.

Taking on an amped up Thing/Hulk isn't impressive? Okay then. If the tables were reversed, the idea alone of Hulk taking on an amped up Thing/Thor team up would get you hard.

I can just picture you using the upcoming battle months before it happens as evidence that Hulk is too much for Thor alone. It's just how your twisted little mind works.

abhilegend
^So superman can go all probe buster any time he wants, all he has to is drop his mental blocks. Joe casey's majestic rearranged entire solar system, beta ray bill destroyed multiple planets, astro force canceled obilivion bomb, mjolnir absorbed null bomb, surfer defeated unilord, superman defeated dominus, heralds always have done things that make you say WTF. You trumpeting thor can't hurt hulk doesn't make it true, we can always go to high end feats as thor shattered exitar's domepiece.

Horrificus
Originally posted by carver9
Because he didn't even acknowledge 2 physical beings that would probably beat Herc to sleep and he didn't even acknowledge Armageddon, the same person that ran through Surfer and Merged Hulk in 3 panels. To ignore 2 beings that physically matched Savage Hulk and one being that ran through Surfer and Merged Hulk the way Armageddon did without even flinching from their attacks is enough proof for me.

Thor would have to pull out his most exotic, most powerful attacks to even get this version of Hulk to even recognize him. Let's also not forget, the impact between WBH and She Rulk destroyed the planet along with nearby planets but after the explosion, Hulk didn't even have a scratch on him...the guy was standing on a cliff with a smile on his face after a greater than planetary explosion hit him.

Hulk solos. Rage, there is nothing indicated that Hulk has been depowered. those were whimpy planets. big grin

carver9
Originally posted by abhilegend
^So superman can go all probe buster any time he wants, all he has to is drop his mental blocks. Joe casey's majestic rearranged entire solar system, beta ray bill destroyed multiple planets, astro force canceled obilivion bomb, mjolnir absorbed null bomb, surfer defeated unilord, superman defeated dominus, heralds always have done things that make you say WTF. You trumpeting thor can't hurt hulk doesn't make it true, we can always go to high end feats as thor shattered exitar's domepiece.

I dont think you understand the meaning of consistent.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Starscream M
carver, while I agree hulk can solo thor, saying he can solo both thor and herc is a bit overboard, don't you think?

what makes you think he's that powerful? hercules adds nothing

abhilegend
^So one writer wanks a character for some time and it becomes the norm for him? You can't just cherry pick one writer's work on one character and pass it like norm for him. Pak was leaving hulk so he went overboard with all his rejected WWH ideas. Do you know in his original script for WWH he planned for thor to return and get oneshotted alongside sentry by a SINGLE punch? Pak has always gone overboard with his favorite characters like herc killing a god who killed atum or a SKYFATHER recreating multiverse. His wanking is above Loeb level albeit with a bit better writing. Even you would have found 1000 ft hulk retarded.

psycho gundam
nah. pak brought hulk back to his roots and tied up old plot points only non-hulk haters knew about, it just took some time to see what he was cooking up cause every hulk comic he was on was linked to hulk's best showings (in recent years/months) and why they are so.

stay mad y'all

Parmaniac
Originally posted by abhilegend
^So one writer wanks a character for some time and it becomes the norm for him? His past was retconned, he always held back, then he didn't. See it as an indirect upgarde if you want, it's like the time Darkseid got pretty much all his losses retconned.

abhilegend
Originally posted by psycho gundam
nah. pak brought hulk back to his roots and tied up old plot points only non-hulk haters knew about, it just took some time to see what he was cooking up cause every hulk comic he was on was linked to hulk's best showings (in recent years/months) and why they are so.

stay mad y'all
Who is mad? Pak was killing sales on hulk, even red hulk was selling better than the main hulk title. Marvel had to relaunch incredible hulk, why would anyone read a book where hero railroads through everyone. One writer doesn't change character completely otherwise after Casey/Loeb superman would have been a skyfather. Oh and thor not being able to hurt hulk now, just keep dreaming.

Naija boy
If this is HOTM hulk then yeah he soloes. probly one shots the other team. If it is just regular green scar then yeah team 1 still wins though ina much better fight.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Parmaniac
His past was retconned, he always held back, then he didn't. See it as an indirect upgarde if you want, it's like the time Darkseid got pretty much all his losses retconned.
Darkseid and thanos are villains, they would always be more powerful than heroes. Hulk doesn't have that luxury. One writer can't change the entire history of a character. Casey and loeb tried and failed,this would be retconned again. It's for hulk's own good, why would a fan want a meaningless forum win while his favorite becomes more obsolete because of it?

psycho gundam
Originally posted by abhilegend
Who is mad? Pak was killing sales on hulk, even red hulk was selling better than the main hulk title. Marvel had to relaunch incredible hulk, why would anyone read a book where hero railroads through everyone. One writer doesn't change character completely otherwise after Casey/Loeb superman would have been a skyfather. well, loeb doesn't just amp his favorite character, he changes everyone they encounter also. this is his track record and what we will see when he touches cable and nova soon enough

anyway, people buy less comics these days, dc had to relaunch their entire company cause of this so judging hulk's feats vs how many people will see them* is retarded (*hint: they probably didn't pay for the comic but were none the less fapping to the carnage regardless. sales don't mean shit, ever heard of limewire/napster?)

Originally posted by abhilegend
Oh and thor not being able to hurt hulk now, just keep dreaming. who said that?

if thor doesn't get exotic (pause) he'll get his shit ruined eventually

Rage.Of.Olympus
Hulk sales really were in the crapper though. Poor story telling in exchange for feats might please his hardcore fans but for most people, it's off putting.

Whatever, it's over and the sheer silliness of it was fun.

Thor God Blasts all Hulks at the same time into oblivion.

psycho gundam
from the looks of their latest encounter, thor might have to resort to his final card. biscuits

Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor's never going to go at Hulk as anything more than a ridiculously powerful brick with some lightning projection. It's really the only reason that Banner is still alive at this point.

He always sees Hulk as a chance to test his strength, and ultimately, he can't win that way which was probably the main reason for his comment. Unfortunately, some people (Read: Hulk f*g) took it as an admission of inferiority instead of an acknowledgment of their rivalry etc. Still a bit out of character for him imo.

Fraction was looking at the Defenders stalemate as a reference IIRC.

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