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As the title says, Pre Retcon Beyonder vs Those 2.... Now, I've heard people say that both LT and Eternity have admitted themselves inferior to Beyonder, so if anyone can provide proof of that, it'll be great..

Let's put it this way. Molecule Man, who at the time of the Pre-Retcon Beyonder was the second most powerful being EVER, let off a blast, point blank in the Beyonder's face that was said to be powerful enough to destroy THOUSANDS of dimensions, it was shrugged off by the Beyonder.

1000 Tribunals and 1000 Eternitys wouldn't do jack against him. That's why he was retconned.

is Living Tribunal fully backed here?

Beyonder shit stomps.

only one who can top him is TOAA (not the Celestial, the other one).

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
is Living Tribunal fully backed here? backed by whom? He's not the spectre. I think TOAA didnt even exist back then.

beyonders feats never actually happened ,he gets stomped here

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
beyonders feats never actually happened ,he gets stomped here the op explictly states its the pre-retcon version

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
beyonders feats never actually happened ,he gets stomped here

Originally posted by Mindset

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
beyonders feats never actually happened ,he gets stomped here

WTF man... WTF...

PR Beyonder > TOAA and all His/Its Omniverse

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
beyonders feats never actually happened ,he gets stomped here Originally posted by Mindset
Originally posted by kgkg
Originally posted by rotiart
WTF man... WTF...

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
beyonders feats never actually happened ,he gets stomped here Originally posted by Mindset
Originally posted by kgkg

Originally posted by NotSoBad
PR Beyonder > TOAA and all His/Its Omniverse



Beyonder may have been from outside the Marvel multiverse, however he is still a Marvel property and would come under the jurisdiction of Marvels supreme being.

Further to that point, the Pre ret Beyonder buy his own admission could be affected by the power of the M'kraan crystal. Reverted from his humanoid form back to a formless reality. He was not supreme being level, he was not infallible.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm


Beyonder may have been from outside the Marvel multiverse, however he is still a Marvel property and would come under the jurisdiction of Marvels supreme being.

Further to that point, the Pre ret Beyonder buy his own admission could be affected by the power of the M'kraan crystal. Reverted from his humanoid form back to a formless reality. He was not supreme being level, he was not infallible.

Ok I respect Your Opinion ( I dont think it's "Gibberish", " Inconsequential" Or " Intrasigence" ) Althought i'm still leaning towards PR Beyonder

Originally posted by NotSoBad
Ok I respect Your Opinion ( I dont think it's "Gibberish", " Inconsequential" Or " Intrasigence" ) Althought i'm still leaning towards PR Beyonder

I wasnt saying that the Beyonder wouldnt win.

I was just correcting your assessment that he was greater than TOAA when Beyonder is still a Marvel property and therefore under its supreme beings jurisdiction. I further illustrated my point by highlighting the power the M'kraan crystal has over the Beyonder.

Living Tribunal and Eternity's fight is.....*puts on glasses*........a lost cause


YEAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


But seriously, Beyonder curbstomps them into ash

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I wasnt saying that the Beyonder wouldnt win.

I was just correcting your assessment that he was greater than TOAA when Beyonder is still a Marvel property and therefore under its supreme beings jurisdiction. I further illustrated my point by highlighting the power the M'kraan crystal has over the Beyonder.

Jim Shooter (EIC) said "He discovered us"
1 Option - Beyonder discovered Authors Avatars , this make Him greater than TOAA
2 Beyonder discovered Human race (Us) on Marvel Earth 616 and if this is true TOAA win

Pre-retcon beyonder threads should be banned. What other characters do we insist on hanging on to non-canon feats?

Originally posted by King Kandy
Pre-retcon beyonder threads should be banned. What other characters do we insist on hanging on to non-canon feats? PC Dc characters.

I suppose, but that's not exactly the same thing. The PC characters are actually different incarnations of the character then the modern versions, not just "the character if we chop off everything that happened after x point".

Classic Dr. Strange would count, I guess.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Pre-retcon beyonder threads should be banned. There are a lot of characters who have no place in versus threads.

Beyonder
Mxy
CA Supeman
Mandrakk
Thanos /w/ HOTI
Etc.

Any threads with the above characters almost always get closed.

I think plenty of those characters could be debatable if people took a more level headed approach. But for instance, in any thread w/ Mandrakk, suggestions that he lose are usually met with "you obviously just didn't read/understand final crisis" which is a pretty blatant fallacy.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I think plenty of those characters could be debatable if people took a more level headed approach. But for instance, in any thread w/ Mandrakk, suggestions that he lose are usually met with "you obviously just didn't read/understand final crisis" which is a pretty blatant fallacy.
People not seeing the difference between the two versions of Mandrakk is asinine though.

I'm talking about Mandrakk 1.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I'm talking about Mandrakk 1.
Yes, and I can't say how many times I've seen people suggest that a GL stake could kill Mandrakk V1

OK, but that's really not relevant to what I was saying, other than it shows that neither side are debating particularly well.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I think plenty of those characters could be debatable if people took a more level headed approach. But for instance, in any thread w/ Mandrakk, suggestions that he lose are usually met with "you obviously just didn't read/understand final crisis" which is a pretty blatant fallacy. Debatable to an extent. But if you have two omnipotent characters fighting one another, then you will never get anything more than a stalemate in the end (which is why those types of threads tend to annoy me.)

As for the Mandrakk stuff: I do think you need to have a thorough understanding of the Superman Beyond books, if you are to understand exactly what he is/was, and debate intelligently in a thread he is involved in. After all, a mini as complex as SB needs to be read quite a few times before you begin to grasp everything that is going on in it (something not everyone has done)... But I do understand what you're saying.

^ I myself had to read two/three annotations/reviews before I got a good grasp of a lot of the concepts and ideas involved.

Originally posted by Galan007
There are a lot of characters who have no place in versus threads.

Beyonder
Mxy
CA Supeman
Mandrakk
Thanos /w/ HOTI
Etc.

Any threads with the above characters almost always get closed.

I will add to Your List :
Presence and all its manifestations/aspects ( could be far better for DC to never created such Judeo-Christian corelated Cosmology)
Mother Of Existence
The Endless

Originally posted by Omega Vision
^ I myself had to read two/three annotations/reviews before I got a good grasp of a lot of the concepts and ideas involved. So did I. Moorcock's Multiverse was the only other series I've had to do that with.

Out of all characters so powerful such as Mxy, LT, Protege, Mandrakk... PR Beyonder tops them all.

Even such powerful characters couldn't even challenge him.

^ That, again, is only your opinion.

I don't think here is the case about opinions. It simply is.
PR Beyonder is simply in his own class.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ That, again, is only your opinion.
Ah-ah-ah, Galan, it's also Mr Master's opinion.

Ergo it must be fact. dur

Originally posted by Xplosive
Out of all characters so powerful such as Mxy, LT, Protege, Mandrakk... PR Beyonder tops them all.

Even such powerful characters couldn't even challenge him.
Oh, don't even start.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Oh, don't even start.

It is what it is.

Making unequivocal statements without backing things up is usually the short way to sounding like an ass.

Originally posted by Xplosive
I don't think here is the case about opinions. It simply is. 'It simply is' your opinion. Nothing more.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Ah-ah-ah, Galan, it's also Mr Master's opinion.

Ergo it must be fact. dur galan_jesus

It was backed so many times, it's not necessary.
You really think it's necessary or you just never read or heard about PR Beyonder?

Originally posted by Galan007
'It simply is' your opinion. Nothing more.

Yes, it's mine opinion, but in your opinion, do you think someone like Mxy or CA Superman were powerful as PR Beyonder?

Originally posted by Xplosive
Yes, it is mine opinion, but in your opinion, do you think someone like Mxy or CA Superman were powerful as PR Beyonder? Feat-wise I have always maintained that Mxy is superior to Beyonder... But I don't really feel like getting into it again.

The CA/Mandrakk are beyond even Mxy. Imo.

Originally posted by Galan007
Feat-wise I have always maintained that Mxy is superior to Beyonder... But I don't really feel like getting into it again.

I am not even interested what you have to say, I just wanted to see your opinion.
Your opinion is that he has better feats. Like you said, simply your opinion, nothing more.

^ Right you are.

Originally posted by Xplosive
I am not even interested what you have to say, I just wanted to see your opinion.
Your opinion is that he has better feats. Like you said, simply your opinion, nothing more.
Hypocritical much?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Hypocritical much?

What is so hard to understand about my quote?
It simply is like I said, nothing hypocritical about it. Don't make it more or different than it is.

Originally posted by Xplosive
What is so hard to understand about my quote?
It simply is like I said, nothing hypocritical about it. Don't make it more or different than it is.

Your qoute said something about your opinion being a fact when it clearly isn't!

Originally posted by kevdude
Your qoute said something about your opinion being a fact when it clearly isn't!

This was the last post.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Yes, it's mine opinion, but in your opinion, do you think someone like Mxy or CA Superman were powerful as PR Beyonder?

So again, what is hard to understand?

Originally posted by Xplosive
I don't think here is the case about opinions. It simply is.
PR Beyonder is simply in his own class. But that's neither here nor there.

Originally posted by Galan007
But that's neither here nor there.

Yes, I knew you will quote that, but then again, in my opinion it really simply is, because I see it as that. I see it so far above them, that in my opinion it simply is. But, it really is my opinion.

And if I said in my later post, that it's mine opinion, we can forget what I wrote before. So, don't complicate.

IMO PR beyonder is >MXy.

CA supes is another story.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
IMO PR beyonder is >MXy.

In your opinion.

Originally posted by Xplosive
What is so hard to understand about my quote?
It simply is like I said, nothing hypocritical about it. Don't make it more or different than it is.
It's hypocritical because without providing a shred of evidence you elevate your opinion as fact while automatically ignoring all dissenting opinions on the grounds that they're "just opinions".

Originally posted by Omega Vision
It's hypocritical because without providing a shred of evidence you elevate your opinion as fact while automatically ignoring all dissenting opinions on the grounds that they're "just opinions".

F*ck it man. What the fu*ck is hard to understand when I say don't complicate it? What is hard to understand when in later post I said it is my opinion. I mean WTF!

Originally posted by Xplosive
In your opinion. Yes.Thats why I said IMO...

Originally posted by Xplosive
F*ck it man. What the fu*ck is hard to understand when I say don't complicate it? What is hard to understand when in later post I said it is my opinion. I mean WTF!
Your opinion which you quite firmly tried to pass off as absolute fact by saying "it simply is".

So far all you've done is made unequivocal statements.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Yes, I knew you will quote that, but then again, in my opinion it really simply is, because I see it as that. I see it so far above them, that in my opinion it simply is. But, it really is my opinion.

And if I said in my later post, that it's mine opinion, we can forget what I wrote before. So, don't complicate. Woah. I think you just complicated it a lot more than any of us did.

Originally posted by NotSoBad
PR Beyonder > TOAA and all His/Its Omniverse TOAA is the one that retconned beyonder in the first place.........

Guys, just stop before I have to take my belt off.

Originally posted by Mindset
Guys, just stop before I have to take my belt off.
My hickory switch>your belt.

My belt is more agile.

Originally posted by Mindset
My belt is more agile.
I can find several feats of my hickory switch stalemating a bullwhip sneer

Mindset says he is taking off his belt, and OV immediately pulls out 'hickory switch'.

Hm...

Originally posted by Galan007
Mindset says he is taking off his belt, and OV immediately pulls out 'hickory switch'.

Hm... I knew that was coming....

Originally posted by Black bolt z
beyonder is >MXy.

. doubt it

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
doubt it For what reason?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
For what reason? mxy can snap his fingers and destroy the entire DC Omniverse then snap his finger again and bring it all back , no one can touch that feat

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
mxy can snap his fingers and destroy the entire DC Omniverse then snap his finger again and bring it all back , no one can touch that feat Beyonder could have destroyed the multiverse very easily and wasn't the multiverse all there was in marvel back then?

And when has it been stated Mxy can destroy the Omniverse?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Beyonder could have destroyed the multiverse very easily and wasn't the multiverse all there was in marvel back then?

And when has it been stated Mxy can destroy the Omniverse? he did on panel, he does it every tuesday in a game he plays with batmite

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
he did on panel, he does it every tuesday in a game he plays with batmite Scans of him destroying the omniverse on-panel?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Scans of him destroying the omniverse on-panel? gimmie a sec, i will have to look for them

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
gimmie a sec, i will have to look for them Take your time.

Originally posted by Galan007
Mindset says he is taking off his belt, and OV immediately pulls out 'hickory switch'.

Hm...
We were just comparing means of beating small children.

You had to go and make it weird. uhuh

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/th_wf21.jpghttp://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/th_wf22.jpg http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/th_wf23.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/wf24.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/wf25.jpg


mxy goes into the real world and beat up the writers
http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/3882/1yh6.jpg

Mxy actually takes the script/draft for an upcoming series, to find out what happens to Superman.
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/1788/2wq7.jpg

^

That could very easily be just a multiverse.No Omni.

If you're going to mooch my scans/statements, I would at least appreciate some credit for them. srsly

You don't deserve credit for your lies, you big fat liar. sneer

Wait, nvm, give him credit.

Originally posted by Mindset
You don't deserve credit for your lies, you big fat liar. sneer

Wait, nvm, give him credit. bat

Originally posted by Black bolt z
^

That could very easily be just a multiverse.No Omni.
It wasn't just a Multiverse. Mxy destroyed at least 2 Multiverses (PC and Post Crisis) as well as the 'Real World'

Originally posted by Omega Vision
as well as the 'Real World' I haven't seen anything like this here

Originally posted by Parmaniac
I haven't seen anything like this here
You wouldn't notice. He destroyed it in an instant and recreated it in an instant.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
It wasn't just a Multiverse. Mxy destroyed at least 2 Multiverses (PC and Post Crisis) as well as the 'Real World' Don't forget that he also destroyed the 4th World. And according to Orion, all mortal universes (the multiverse) exist inside bubbles in the one reality of New Genesis.

...And he destroyed the 5th dimension as well (which is likely even bigger still.)

Originally posted by Galan007
Don't forget that he also destroyed the 4th World. And according to Orion, all mortal universes (the multiverse) exist inside bubbles in the one reality of New Genesis.

...And he destroyed the 5th dimension as well (which is likely even bigger still.)
Do you think he destroyed the higher dimensions (6+)?

How many dimensions are there?

Originally posted by Parmaniac
How many dimensions are there?
Taking the Ultimator's statement as true fact, 10.

Though the Ultimator might have just known about 10.

WF effectively makes Mxy above any being in DC, and real world writers/editors. I don't see why we should take it seriously.

Originally posted by Mindset
WF effectively makes Mxy above any being in DC, and real world writers/editors. I don't see why we should take it seriously.
Well Emperor Joker hinted as such as well.

I don't put WF Mxy above the Presence though. Or even on the same level.

Obviously Bat Mite could fight him, so he wasn't truly Omnipotent.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Well Emperor Joker hinted as such as well.

I don't put WF Mxy above the Presence though. Or even on the same level.

Obviously Bat Mite could fight him, so he wasn't truly Omnipotent. And yet he destroyed the people who control the "omnipotents" actions.

Originally posted by Mindset
And yet he destroyed the people who control the "omnipotents" actions.
Just because they control reality doesn't mean their durability isn't shit

Using the approach that Mxy destroyed the real world including the writers we must also accept that it was the writers who allowed Mxy to destroy them.

In effect they destroyed themselves.

If anything it should have been Mxy, Batmite, and Bruce left, as Bruce has peak human durability.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Do you think he destroyed the higher dimensions (6+)? This:

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4687/sfunnest60.th.jpg

Leads me to believe absolutely everything in DC was destroyed.

Originally posted by Galan007
This:

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4687/sfunnest60.th.jpg

Leads me to believe absolutely everything in DC was destroyed.
So then do you think the instance where Mxy got embarrassed by the A is PIS/CIS?

Please don't take this as casuistry, I'm genuinely confused by this.

^ I never looked at that as PIS. The A wasn't introduced until after WF was released -- I think he was just that powerful.

Beyonder was said to be millions of times more powerful than everything in the marvel multiverse combined. That means eternity + galactus + phoenix + living tribunal + oblivion + mistress death + *everything else* multiplied by 1,000,000(s). So, he wasn't omnipotent, but still leagues above Mxy, Thought Machine, and whoever else that's not omnipotent in comics.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Beyonder was said to be millions of times more powerful than everything in the marvel multiverse combined. That means eternity + galactus + phoenix + living tribunal + oblivion + mistress death + *everything else* multiplied by 1,000,000(s). So, he wasn't omnipotent, but still leagues above Mxy, Thought Machine, and whoever else that's not omnipotent in comics.
Feats>Statements.

His energy created a universe that was that much bigger than the MU. There, now its a feat.

Originally posted by King Kandy
His energy created a universe that was that much bigger than the MU. that feat doesnt put him anywhere near mxy

Originally posted by King Kandy
His energy created a universe that was that much bigger than the MU. There, now its a feat.
Which certainly isn't worthy of the "millions of times greater than all the Abstracts combined" hype.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Feats>Statements.

Authors that wrote the story > you.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Which certainly isn't worthy of the "millions of times greater than all the Abstracts combined" hype.
Um, the feats are exactly equivalent. His energy was millions of times greater than the MU, including the abstracts that represent it. So, he was himself that much stronger.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Authors that wrote the story > you.
That in no way rebuts my post. At all.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
That in no way rebuts my post. At all.

It supports what I'm saying. The authors who actually wrote the story, put on paper that the Beyonder was millions of times..... You can't disregard actual narrative statements.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
It supports what I'm saying. The authors who actually wrote the story, put on paper that the Beyonder was millions of times..... You can't disregard actual narrative statements.
But in determining characters' relative powers feats are much, much more persuasive than statements.

Words are cheap, seeing is believing.

Originally posted by Galan007
Woah. I think you just complicated it a lot more than any of us did.

No, I didn't. You complicate things when you star mentioning what I said before and you know I corrected myself immidetally in next post. What I said before becomes irrelevant and then you come mentioning what I said before. WTF!

Actully, it wasn't even you who mentioned it.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Your opinion which you quite firmly tried to pass off as absolute fact by saying "it simply is".

So far all you've done is made unequivocal statements.

So you still don't understand that in my next post I corrected myself and I said it was my opinion and then after that you still bring crap about a post what I said before it.

So, what is your problem? Why are you still mentioning that, when I corrected myself.

And why did you quote me when I said to Galan it's simply his opinion and nothing more and that goes also for me.
Is it hard to get over it?

WTF is the problem?

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
mxy goes into the real world and beat up the writers
http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/3882/1yh6.jpg

Mxy actually takes the script/draft for an upcoming series, to find out what happens to Superman.
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/1788/2wq7.jpg

Are you kidding? So Mxy himself jumped out of comics with his free will and no one was drawing him and controlling him what to do?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Using the approach that Mxy destroyed the real world including the writers

The real world was destroyed by Mxy? Ok.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Feats>Statements.

But we still know he was above everyone in MU combined.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Are you kidding? So Mxy himself jumped out of comics with his free will and no one was drawing him and controlling him what to do? the purpose of that was to show that mxy is more powerful and beyond any comicbook character ever, he did it another time when jumped out of a comic book and sealed it up to stop a being who was chasing him, he also has tampered with talk bubbles

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
the purpose of that was to show that mxy is more powerful and beyond any comicbook character ever, he did it another time when jumped out of a comic book and sealed it up to stop a being who was chasing him

She-Hulk jumped out of the comic and tore up comic.
She-Hulk>LT and any other comic book character.

Originally posted by Xplosive
She-Hulk jumped out of the comic and tore up comic.
She-Hulk>LT and any other comic book character. mxy still has Omniversal feats
very bad logic

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
mxy still has Omnivesal feats

True. That is why it's pointless to use who is coming out of comics.

Originally posted by Xplosive
True. That is why it's pointless to use who is coming out of comics. he has consistantly done it though

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
he has consistantly done it though

Mxy is a joker so that is why writers are allowing him to do such stuff.
Always a joke.

Originally posted by Xplosive
She-Hulk jumped out of the comic and tore up comic.
She-Hulk>LT and any other comic book character.

Not to mention that Galactus forcibly brought Stan Lee into a comic and made him do what he wanted him to do. Going by these guys' logic, Galactus > the guy who writes him and thus Galactus > The One Above All.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Not to mention that Galactus forcibly brought Stan Lee into a comic and made him do what he wanted him to do.

I didn't know that. Puf, that is even worse than what Mxy did.
So Galactus is the true king.

Originally posted by Xplosive
I don't think here is the case about opinions. It simply is.
PR Beyonder is simply in his own class.

Having a brain fart at the moment will probably kick myself later when I remember the name. PR beyonder can be stalemated by character who copy the power levels up to and including TOAA and you all know who I'm talking about but I for the life of me can't remember the character. Little kid... Ridiculous copy feat... yeah... someone post it's really going to bother me in about 15 minutes when I don't remember.

Originally posted by Uriel005
Having a brain fart at the moment will probably kick myself later when I remember the name. PR beyonder can be stalemated by character who copy the power levels up to and including TOAA and you all know who I'm talking about but I for the life of me can't remember the character. Little kid... Ridiculous copy feat... yeah... someone post it's really going to bother me in about 15 minutes when I don't remember.

TOAA is above PR Beyonder. PR Beyonder existed because of TOAA.

Do you have Protege in mind (he duplicated LT powers and that of others)?
Also Protege existed because of TOAA. I think PR Beyonder is simply too powerful for Protege. I think he would destroy Protege in an instant.

Now, someone like Mxy vs. Protege, that I think Protege could easily copy just like he did with LT and others.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Authors that wrote the story > you. I agree.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
TOAA is the one that retconned beyonder in the first place.........

Still Beyonder From Secret Wars > TOAA

Originally posted by NotSoBad
Still Beyonder From Secret Wars > TOAA

Yes, of course, if you mean Celestial TOAA.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Yes, of course, if you mean Celestial TOAA.

TOAA=GOD

Beyonder is BEYOND God ( in comic book reality).
Just like Primal Monitor is beyond Presence/Yahweh

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Taking the Ultimator's statement as true fact, 10.

Though the Ultimator might have just known about 10.

Didn't that furturistic Supeman say there were like 13 known dimensions from Countdown: Arena?

I will check it out when I get home!

Originally posted by NotSoBad
TOAA=GOD

Beyonder is BEYOND God ( in comic book reality).
Just like Primal Monitor is beyond Presence/Yahweh

Look. Beyonder was outside Marvel Multiverse, but was still part of the whole Marvel Universe.

We know that writers created Beyonder and put him in MU. We know that TOAA represents writers or company etc...
TOAA was always The One Above All and he was the one who retconned Beyonder, because he made him simply too powerful. The One Above All in this case, name says it all.

TOAA can now create far more powerful being than what PreR Beyonder was or create the most powerful being (even out of ant or nothing) in all comics ever if he would chose so.

I think that Mxy, CA Superman or Mandrakk would be nothing more than what Living Tribunal and others were to PreR Beyonder.

Originally posted by NotSoBad
Still Beyonder From Secret Wars > TOAA Ummmm...no.To TOAA beyonder was just a piece of paper as you do know he is thr writer/artist right?Its impossible for a comic character to be >TOAA.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Well Emperor Joker hinted as such as well.

I don't put WF Mxy above the Presence though. Or even on the same level.

Obviously Bat Mite could fight him, so he wasn't truly Omnipotent. Bat-Mite is a part of Mxy's own power. So it's not surprising at all that they were essentially stalemating.

Originally posted by King Kandy
His energy created a universe that was that much bigger than the MU. There, now its a feat. And Mxy destroyed the entirety of DC (past, present, future), then literally snapped it all back into existence.

Originally posted by theICONiac
Didn't that furturistic Supeman say there were like 13 known dimensions from Countdown: Arena?

I will check it out when I get home! In an issue of Teen Titans, Kid Devil went dimension hopping and ended up in the 52nd dimension.

Originally posted by Galan007
And Mxy destroyed the entirety of DC (past, present, future), then literally snapped it all back into existence.

I would like to know what about other powerful characters? What happened to them?
When Mxy destroyed entirety of DC, what happened to all characters or especially to those characters who are above those concepts?

I'm also wondering, I mean if there are 10 planes of existence/dimensions and Mxy is from the 5th, what kind of being are in 6 und up and shouldn't they be more powerful than Mxy?

Originally posted by Parmaniac
I'm also wondering, I mean if there are 10 planes of existence/dimensions and Mxy is from the 5th, what kind of being are in 6 und up and shouldn't they be more powerful than Mxy?

Although I don't know, that is why I asked, but logical is that those should simply stay untouched.

Originally posted by Xplosive
I would like to know what about other powerful characters? What happened to them?
When Mxy destroyed entirety of DC, what happened to all characters or especially to those characters who are above those concepts? Nothing (not even Spectre) is above destruction.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
I'm also wondering, I mean if there are 10 planes of existence/dimensions and Mxy is from the 5th, what kind of being are in 6 und up and shouldn't they be more powerful than Mxy? Contrary to popular belief, numerically higher dimensions don't always equate to greater power. For instance, the 6th dimensional beings from JLA (the Cathexis) barely preformed herald-level feats. The same can be said about the 8th dimensional fellas that were seen in JSA. Hell, even the beings of the 52nd dimension weren't much different than normal humans. And Ultimator herself (a 10-d being) was ultimately beaten by Mxy's powers. Etc.

From what's been displayed on panel, the 4th (referring to the Monitors' plane of actuality, not the New Gods') and 5th dimensions contain the most powerful beings. By far.

Ah ok

Originally posted by Galan007
Nothing (not even Spectre) is above destruction.

True of course, but there must be enough power behind it to destroy such characters (although I always found Spectre overrated). Let say Mxy has the power to destroy entirety, but what about those characters that are above such level of destruction.
Having the power to destroy entirety of DC (time and space) doesn't mean at all that all characters are destroyed.

Were someone like Lucifer or Michael truly destroyed? Is it confirmed on panel?

^ I refer, again, to this scan:
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4687/sfunnest60.th.jpg

"No more ANYTHING... Except for you and me."

Another case is when Galactus was on a run to absorb an entire Omniverse (all time and space, past and...).
Does that mean he would also absorb someone like LT? I doubt it.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ I refer, again, to this scan:
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4687/sfunnest60.th.jpg

"No more ANYTHING... Except for you and me." Which is why this shouldn't be taken seriously.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ I refer, again, to this scan:
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4687/sfunnest60.th.jpg

"No more ANYTHING... Except for you and me."

But that doesn't say much. I have to see most powerful characters being destroyed.
There are characters more powerful than Mxy and if Mxy himself wasn't destroyed in the process (of course he was also behind it), why would others be (someone who is more powerful than Mxy (except if Mxy is the most powerful, but like I know for DC, he isn't).

Originally posted by Xplosive
Another case is when Galactus was on a run to absorb and entire Omniverse (all time and space, past).
Does that mean he would also absorb someone like LT? I doubt it. Implied power (Galactus), and actual feats (Mxy) are two completely different things.

Originally posted by Mindset
Which is why this shouldn't be taken seriously. Why is that?

Originally posted by Mindset
WF effectively makes Mxy above any being in DC, and real world writers/editors. I don't see why we should take it seriously.

Originally posted by Galan007
Implied power (Galactus), and actual feats (Mxy) are two completely different things.

But it could be taken in this debate.
And I haven't seen Mxy actually destroying all those most powerful characters. I have to see it on panel (look what THOTI did, he actually proved it).
If Mxy did it, then he is the most powerful character in DC.

^ How so?

We know real-world writers weren't destroyed by a comic book character. C'mon now.

And I heard about Primal Monitor recently? Who is he?

Originally posted by Galan007
^ How so?

We know real-world writers weren't destroyed by a comic book character. C'mon now. Because Mxy destroyed the "real world".

Hence, the joking nature of the comic.

Originally posted by Mindset
Because Mxy destroyed the "real world".

Ok, Mindset, you are joking now.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Ok, Mindset, you are joking now. No, the comic is.

Well, it seems Mxy is the most powerful character in DC comics, although his power does come or depend from the creational powers of Michael+Lucifer.

So that means if Michael and Lucifer were destroyed in the process, Mxy should automatically lose his powers.

Originally posted by Xplosive
But it could be taken in this debate.
And I haven't seen Mxy actually destroying all those most powerful characters. I have to see it on panel (look what THOTI did, he actually proved it).
If Mxy did it, then he is the most powerful character in DC. "No more infinite earths." (the multiverse)
"No more alternative universes." (everything not associated with the multiverse.)
"No more pasts, no more furtures."
"No more ANYTHING... Except for you and me:"

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4687/sfunnest60.th.jpg

It doesn't get any clearer than that, imo.

Originally posted by Mindset
Because Mxy destroyed the "real world".

Hence, the joking nature of the comic. Obviously not. Otherwise no pages would have appeared beyond his final 'DC-busting' blast.

Originally posted by Galan007
"No more infinite earths." (the multiverse)
"No more alternative universes." (everything not associated with the multiverse.)
"No more pasts, no more furtures."
"No more ANYTHING... Except for you and me:"

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4687/sfunnest60.th.jpg

It doesn't get any clearer than that, imo.

Obviously not. Otherwise no pages would have appeared beyond his final 'DC-busting' blast. And yet he was supposed to have done this very thing.

Again, it was a joke comic, each post your making seems to be showing that point.

Originally posted by Mindset
And yet he was supposed to have done this very thing.

Again, it was a joke comic, each post your making seems to be showing that point. No he wasn't.

Almost any comics Mxy partakes in could be considered jokes. He once went into the 'real world', slapped a few writers, and took a comic script so he could see what was going to happen in an upcoming comic. Point being: just because a feat is silly, doesn't mean it's any less canonical -- especially when a character's entire powerset revolves around that kind of thing.

Don't get butthurt. sneer

Originally posted by Xplosive
But it could be taken in this debate.
And I haven't seen Mxy actually destroying all those most powerful characters. I have to see it on panel (look what THOTI did, he actually proved it).
If Mxy did it, then he is the most powerful character in DC. His power was bashing abstracts in EJ.

Originally posted by Galan007
No he wasn't.

Almost any comics Mxy partakes in could be considered jokes. He once went into the 'real world', slapped a few writers, and took a comic script so he could see what was going to happen in an upcoming comic. Point being: just because a feat is silly, doesn't mean it's any less canonical -- especially when a character's entire powerset revolves around that kind of thing.

Don't get butthurt. sneer Was this not the same comic he was supposed to have destroyed the "real world"?

Mxy's powerset revolves around the ridiculous, but we still need to draw some kind of line on what should be taken somewhat seriously and what shouldn't. We know Mxy is not the strongest being in DCcomics as it has been shown that there are people above him, so I don't see why we would should take this one instance as holding more significance as those when it contradicts it.

Don't tell me what to do with my butt. sneer

Originally posted by Xplosive
Another case is when Galactus was on a run to absorb an entire Omniverse (all time and space, past and...).
Does that mean he would also absorb someone like LT? I doubt it. he most likely would have

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
he most likely would have Based on what proof?LT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Galactus so....