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Which version of Goku is a better match for Kenshiro?

Goku when he fought Radditz would probably be the most even level with Kenshiro. Higher than that, it's a stomp in Goku's favor.

can someone give me the feats of kenshiro for another thread someone made

I think SSJ1 Goku could be a good match for Kenshiro. Anything below, Kenshiro would have more of a chance of winning.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
I think SSJ1 Goku could be a good match for Kenshiro. Anything below, Kenshiro would have more of a chance of winning.

Wtf... this post alone made me realize the fact that you know nothing of dbz.


To answer your question bently I would say the goku at the end of the regular dragonball series would be too much for kenshiro.

Originally posted by carver9
Wtf... this post alone made me realize the fact that you know nothing of dbz.


To answer your question bently I would say the goku at the end of the regular dragonball series would be too much for kenshiro.

This post alone shows me you know nothing about FOTNS.

Goku would have very little chance of winning against Kenshiro at that point.

Kenshiro would literally tear apart Goku at that point.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
This post alone shows me you know nothing about FOTNS.

Goku would have very little chance of winning against Kenshiro at that point. Only in this very rare instance he is very right.

The fact that you think Kenshiro would be worth more than a stain of blood and flesh gibs on SSJ Goku's fist is hilarious.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Only in this very rare instance he is very right.

The fact that you think Kenshiro would be worth more than a stain of blood and flesh gibs on SSJ Goku's fist is hilarious.

Then tell me how is Goku gonna counter Musou Tensei?

By having to clean Kenshiro's brain matter off of his knuckles because he punched through his skull before he could process a thought.

That's assuming Kenshiro is just gonna stand there and let Goku hit him.

You're post is based on a few faulty assumptions. That:

A. Kenshiro will be quick enough to do anything to stop the incoming punch

and

B. That Kenshiro will still be alive after the first punch.

Or have you forgotten that he'll be using Musou Tensei, which means he won't get hit by Goku's punch?

You're not listening.

He will be dead, before he can completely form the thought to use Musou Tensei.

Yeah...assuming Kenshiro will just leave himself open.

Kenshiro isn't stupid. When he senses how dangerous opponent is, he will be prepared to us any techniques necessary, thus, he will use Musou Tensei before Goku could hit him.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Yeah...assuming Kenshiro will just leave himself open.

Kenshiro isn't stupid. When he senses how dangerous opponent is, he will be prepared to us any techniques necessary, thus, he will use Musou Tensei before Goku could hit him. My God.

Can you read?

My point is not that Kenshiro is dumb enough to lower his guard so Goku can hit him, it is that Goku is so fast that before Kenshiro can so much as THINK to do anything in defense Goku will hit him, and that hit will have enough power to push his brain out the back of his skull.

And like I said already, that's only possible if Kenshiro let Goku do that. Goku is not hitting Kenshiro before he uses Musou Tensei.

Heck, I could just use a similar argument you're using and easily say Kenshiro would hit Goku before Goku even moves.

So Kenshiro moves and acts faster than he thinks now?

Lol.

So you're saying that Kenshiro stops thinking when he fights?

................

Good Lord...

Anyhow, even if Ken starts off in his invincible state, SSJ Goku just need drop-kick his ass into orbit.

Originally posted by NemeBro
................
Unbelievable...

When has Goku ever speedblitzed anyone?

Originally posted by marwash22
When has Goku ever speedblitzed anyone?

He's shown the blink-speed in various fights, appearing as squiggly lines. So he's capable.

Originally posted by Robtard
He's shown the blink-speed in various fights, appearing as squiggly lines. So he's capable. Of course. But I'm referring to a scenario like...

-Fight starts.
-Goku blitzes, ftw.

i don't recall that ever happening.

Probably because he fights people who are around his same speed level.

Which Kenshiro is not.

mmm

i suppose.

Originally posted by marwash22
Of course. But I'm referring to a scenario like...

-Fight starts.
-Goku blitzes, ftw.

i don't recall that ever happening.

I vaguely do actually, can't remember who, but I do recall at least one scene where he and his opponent where needlessly talking back and forth in retard anime-dialogue and Goku said something like "enough!" and then blitz'd the mofo, then it cut to a slow-mo or still of that mofo being all ****ed up after the attack.

Recoome?

Originally posted by Robtard
Good Lord...

Anyhow, even if Ken starts off in his invincible state, SSJ Goku just need drop-kick his ass into orbit.

Err...he's intangible.

Well F me, not followed FoTN in a decade. Thought it rendered him invincible, not not intangible. Are you certain?

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Err...he's intangible. Actually he's dead.

Since he never got the chance to use it.

Originally posted by marwash22
When has Goku ever speedblitzed anyone?



only in like every fight he's ever had with anoyone of worth since he was a kid..

but that's all

Originally posted by jinzin


only in like every fight he's ever had with anoyone of worth since he was a kid..

but that's all


Yeah, Goku has a long story of using superspeed since the very start of a combat, not knowing so it's kind of ignoring the character quite a lot

Originally posted by jinzin


only in like every fight he's ever had with anoyone of worth since he was a kid..

but that's all Originally posted by Bentley
Yeah, Goku has a long story of using superspeed since the very start of a combat, not knowing so it's kind of ignoring the character quite a lot no.

You're both showing your ignorance of what a speedblitz is. Show me an instance where Goku immediately goes for the killshot in a fight.

Originally posted by Robtard
Well F me, not followed FoTN in a decade. Thought it rendered him invincible, not not intangible. Are you certain?

I'm positive.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Actually he's dead.

Since he never got the chance to use it.

Yeah, I'm sure he'll give Goku a head start.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Yeah, I'm sure he'll give Goku a head start. You're either a troll or something more unfortunate.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Yeah, I'm sure he'll give Goku a head start. What he's saying is that, Goku can attack Ken, faster than Ken can activate his technique.... this isn't something i disagree with; however, it's not in Goku's character to do such a thing. I can't recall an instance were Goku fought seriously from the jump and used his speed to catch someone off guard at the begining of a fight.

imo, saying Goku will blitz Ken before Ken even processes a thought is scripting and it's something people do a lot which pretty much disregards the character's personality.

Goku always rushes forward to attack the character when the fight begins.

It does not happen in the way I described because unlike the people Goku fights Kenshiro is too slow.

I thought at the start of a fight Goku first spends an episode talking and sweating, or is that just for Krillin and Piccalo?

Actually most of the constipated screaming is filler.

Fun fact.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Goku always rushes forward to attack the character when the fight begins.

It does not happen in the way I described because unlike the people Goku fights Kenshiro is too slow. Ahhh, ok. So you're just saying that Goku's normal attack speed is too much for Ken; i can agree with that. I thought you meant Goku would immediately start off in that speed were it looks like he's invisible.

Why yes, yes he would.

Just because we can see the attack does not mean that a human can.

the idea that Goku would attack his opponents at less than two hundred miles per hours is... Yeah.

Originally posted by marwash22
Ahhh, ok. So you're just saying that Goku's normal attack speed is too much for Ken; i can agree with that. I thought you meant Goku would immediately start off in that speed were it looks like he's invisible.
His ordinary attack speed would be invisible to Kenshiro.

right. i get what you mean now.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You're either a troll or something more unfortunate.

Or more likely, you're just ignorant.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Goku always rushes forward to attack the character when the fight begins.

It does not happen in the way I described because unlike the people Goku fights Kenshiro is too slow.

Not really. He usually pauses for a long time before he actually attacks and that's happened quite often in the series.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Or more likely, you're just ignorant.



Not really. He usually pauses for a long time before he actually attacks and that's happened quite often in the series. Okay, so I assume it is the latter?

Incorrect, watch the series. When the fight actually starts, they will just fight.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Okay, so I assume it is the latter?

Incorrect, watch the series. When the fight actually starts, they will just fight.

1. You being ignorant, yes.

2. No they don't. Goku is always in his fighting stance for a while before the fight start. You'd know that if you watched the series.

http://images.yuku.com/image/gif/9b4154e6b4410804039e56fa3e9b42036de9d4d.gif

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
1. You being ignorant, yes.

2. No they don't. Goku is always in his fighting stance for a while before the fight start. You'd know that if you watched the series. 1. Someone appears to not know the definition of latter.

2. I apologise for misleading you, will properly rephrase my statement: Read the series.

Goku does not hold a fighting stance for a while before the fight starts.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. Someone appears to not know the definition of latter.

2. I apologise for misleading you, will properly rephrase my statement: Read the series.

Goku does not hold a fighting stance for a while before the fight starts.

1. Don't be so quick to hide the fact that you don't appear to know the definition.

2. Oh that's right, he'll have a little chit-chat before the fight.

The goku by the end of dragonball would be a better fight for ken any after is a stomp. Hell I would go as far as to say thatv the goku that took on the red ribbon army could take ken.

Originally posted by carver9
The goku by the end of dragonball would be a better fight for ken any after is a stomp. Hell I would go as far as to say thatv the goku that took on the red ribbon army could take ken.

Dude... it seems you don't know what are Kenshiro's capabilities. He made a waterfall flows upward with his aura and stopped a train with an aura from his fingertip. It is Kid Goku in Red Ribbon timeline would get stomped by Kenshiro. IMO, Kenshiro is on par with Goku from volume 17 Dragon Ball manga.

And if you don't believe me... maybe these vids can help you :

a.) Kenshiro's Feats of Strength :

fnuNWKudq0s


b.) Kenshiro's Feats of Durability (1)

YZW1Gl_BayI


c.) Kenshiro's Feats of Durability (2)

rWv9c-K6QiA


d.) Kenshiro's Feats of Speed (1)

zPVaWN6PvfA


e.) Kenshiro's Feats of Speed (2)

wi38Q5_79Q0


My suggestion : watch all of them and I'd like to see your opinion next time you want to reply on this thread.

Originally posted by marwash22
http://images.yuku.com/image/gif/9b4154e6b4410804039e56fa3e9b42036de9d4d.gif

This....is one awesome gif, man. Lol

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
I'm positive.


Then it wouldn't be a fight, now would it.

No idea how you perceive that as a win for Kenshiro.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
Dude... it seems you don't know what are Kenshiro's capabilities. He made a waterfall flows upward with his aura and stopped a train with an aura from his fingertip. It is Kid Goku in Red Ribbon timeline would get stomped by Kenshiro. IMO, Kenshiro is on par with Goku from volume 17 Dragon Ball manga.

And if you don't believe me... maybe these vids can help you :

a.) Kenshiro's Feats of Strength :

fnuNWKudq0s


b.) Kenshiro's Feats of Durability (1)

YZW1Gl_BayI


c.) Kenshiro's Feats of Durability (2)

rWv9c-K6QiA


d.) Kenshiro's Feats of Speed (1)

zPVaWN6PvfA


e.) Kenshiro's Feats of Speed (2)

wi38Q5_79Q0


My suggestion : watch all of them and I'd like to see your opinion next time you want to reply on this thread.

I seen those scenes and ken is a beast. The rock that ken lifted... a much weaker goku than the red ribbon goku moved a similar rock so I'm pretty sure the goku that fought king picollo could do the same thing. As for ken punching a tank... destroying it... you don't think king picollo goku could do the same thing? This is the same goku that grabbed king picollo and tossed him so hard through a building that iit destroyed it. This is the same goku that tapped a guy during the tournament and sent him flying at least 80 ft with just a touch. I think they are about even in that dept but speed, durability, and power wise kid goku is above ken... I will post things later proving my case. Ken can't take on the goku that fought junior... that is just too much... this is the same goku that tanked a nuke point blank without any damage and punched through walls bouncing back up like he was never hit.

Goku.

Originally posted by carver9 I seen those scenes and ken is a beast. The rock that ken lifted... a much weaker goku than the red ribbon goku moved a similar rock so I'm pretty sure the goku that fought king picollo could do the same thing.

Goku while in training with Mutenroshi need to push it with a lot of effort while Kenshiro doesn't need a lot of effort to do it. In fact, Kenshiro lifted it effortlessly in Shura no Kuni arc.


Originally posted by carver9 As for ken punching a tank... destroying it... you don't think king picollo goku could do the same thing? This is the same goku that grabbed king picollo and tossed him so hard through a building that iit destroyed it.

Kenshiro destroyed a tank feat is Kenshiro at the beginning of the series. Later in Shura no Kuni arc, Kenshiro is much more powerful. He can even stopped a train which is much more heavier than Uighur, with an aura from his fingertip (While he need to stop Uighur's attack with 6 finger earlier in the series. You can see how much Kenshiro progressed) and made a waterfall flows upward with his aura. Even Hyo which is Kenshiro's equal, lifted the same train with his aura. Do you think King Picollo is heavier than the train you seen in the video?


Originally posted by carver9 This is the same goku that tapped a guy during the tournament and sent him flying at least 80 ft with just a touch. I think they are about even in that dept but speed, durability, and power wise kid goku is above ken... I will post things later proving my case. Ken can't take on the goku that fought junior... that is just too much... this is the same goku that tanked a nuke point blank without any damage and punched through walls bouncing back up like he was never hit.

I doubt about Kid Goku's speed is equal to Kenshiro. I've never seen Kid Goku struck 1106 times per second, while Kenshiro already stopped that attack.

The only way Kenshiro would win is by Muso Tensei otherwise he loses to 23rd Budokai Goku everytime.

I doubt he would lose to kid goku though

Originally posted by Robtard
Then it wouldn't be a fight, now would it.

No idea how you perceive that as a win for Kenshiro.

Musou Tensei puts Kenshiro pretty high up there. If it wasn't for that, I'd probably put him at around Saiyan Saga but the fact that no other character in DBZ can go intangible is why I think he'll have an advantage over Goku in some way.

Saiyan saga goku would "destroy" ken... there is no evidence to support that ken can pull a single win from the goku during the end of regular dragonball. Show me ken surviving a blast capable of leveling an area the length of a mountain. That version of goku have ken beat strength, durability, speed, and power wise so I know for a fact that he won't do jack to saiyan saga goku.

Who is the most impressive character that ken has defeated?

Originally posted by marwash22
no.

You're both showing your ignorance of what a speedblitz is. Show me an instance where Goku immediately goes for the killshot in a fight.

Uh no... a speedblitz (which is a redundant and rediculous term by the way) can be applied at ANY point in a fight, it doesn't have to be at the start of the fight to be considered a "speedblitz".

You're just backtracking to clear up your semantic mishap and taking it out on us. no

Originally posted by carver9
Saiyan saga goku would "destroy" ken... there is no evidence to support that ken can pull a single win from the goku during the end of regular dragonball. Show me ken surviving a blast capable of leveling an area the length of a mountain. That version of goku have ken beat strength, durability, speed, and power wise so I know for a fact that he won't do jack to saiyan saga goku.

Who is the most impressive character that ken has defeated?

What comes to mind right now is Kaioh but then again, I hadn't seen all of the OVA's yet.

Still, Saiyan Saga Goku would get destroyed by Kenshiro. I mean seriously, he's got nothing to counter Musou Tensei, his techniques aren't as deadly and he hadn't shown to do anything that would put him at an advantage over Kenshiro (except for the fact that he fly and shoot more distructive energy beams).

I'm staying out of this one just for the simple fact that I love both these characters so much it would tear me apart to decide!!! lol

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
What comes to mind right now is Kaioh but then again, I hadn't seen all of the OVA's yet.

Still, Saiyan Saga Goku would get destroyed by Kenshiro. I mean seriously, he's got nothing to counter Musou Tensei, his techniques aren't as deadly and he hadn't shown to do anything that would put him at an advantage over Kenshiro (except for the fact that he fly and shoot more distructive energy beams).

How can this possibly be a legitimate post?

Yeah Goku has no advantage over Ken, with the exception of being multitudes more powerful, faster, stronger and durable than him...

As Carver already stated kid Goku would be a hard enough challenge to overcome for Ken, and to be perfectly honest I'm not even convinced he could pull THAT!

To say otherwise implies he could take King Piccolo.... King Piccolo who could level an entire city with a single wave of his hand.... We're supposed to be impressed by waterfalls running upwards? I think not.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
What comes to mind right now is Kaioh but then again, I hadn't seen all of the OVA's yet.

Still, Saiyan Saga Goku would get destroyed by Kenshiro. I mean seriously, he's got nothing to counter Musou Tensei, his techniques aren't as deadly and he hadn't shown to do anything that would put him at an advantage over Kenshiro (except for the fact that he fly and shoot more distructive energy beams).

How is ken damaging goku... that is the unsolved mystery. Hell, we have kid goku as a child taking an ax across the head with it shattering into pieces. Then we clearly have kid goku tossing super humans without too much rouble cloud height. The kamehameha wave alone would drop ken and again the goku that fought king picollo have that a hundred folds.

Kid goku is more durable, faster, and stronger than anyone ken has faced. The goku that fought junior would destroy ken 10 out of 10. His best chances are against any other versions before that and I could still see him struggling.

If you honestly believe that he could beat saiyan saga goku... you are saying that he can beat nappa as well... a being that leveled an entire city with two fingers.

Can you show me ken tanking anything like that?

Originally posted by jinzin
How can this possibly be a legitimate post?

Yeah Goku has no advantage over Ken, with the exception of being multitudes more powerful, faster, stronger and durable than him...

As Carver already stated kid Goku would be a hard enough challenge to overcome for Ken, and to be perfectly honest I'm not even convinced he could pull THAT!

To say otherwise implies he could take King Piccolo.... King Piccolo who could level an entire city with a single wave of his hand.... We're supposed to be impressed by waterfalls running upwards? I think not.

Kid Goku hasn't done anything that Ken can't overcome. He would get stomped by Ken.

Multitudes faster? Sure so...how many punches could Goku throw in just a few seconds? Because Ken at least throw a hundred.

And he can infact take King Piccolo. Sure, he leveled a city but Kenshiro still has Musou Tensei. Plus, if I recall correctly, Goku was too injured to move when King Piccolo destroyed the city.

Originally posted by carver9
How is ken damaging goku... that is the unsolved mystery. Hell, we have kid goku as a child taking an ax across the head with it shattering into pieces. Then we clearly have kid goku tossing super humans without too much rouble cloud height. The kamehameha wave alone would drop ken and again the goku that fought king picollo have that a hundred folds.

Kid goku is more durable, faster, and stronger than anyone ken has faced. The goku that fought junior would destroy ken 10 out of 10. His best chances are against any other versions before that and I could still see him struggling.

If you honestly believe that he could beat saiyan saga goku... you are saying that he can beat nappa as well... a being that leveled an entire city with two fingers.

Can you show me ken tanking anything like that?

You really underestimate Ken. Kenshiro has more deadlier techniques. He can turn the fight in his favor depending on which pressure points he hits. That's not saying it's gonna easily kill Goku (unless it's Kid Goku) but it would weaken him to the point Goku's chances of winning would be little to none.

For a while in the series, Raoh>Kenshiro and Kid Goku has no chance of beating Raoh. Raoh fists are so powerful that he knocked another guy's hands off as he was blocking. Also, like Ken, Raoh's body is also much tougher than steel and top it all, Raoh ALSO knew Musou Tensei...yet Kid Goku is better? Please!

He can beat Nappa too. Knowing Nappa's character, he won't use his city destroying attack until he's really pissed but by that time, Ken would've already hit his pressure points and there's no telling how much weaker Nappa would be.

Kenshiro doesn't have to tank any of that to win. Heck, Goku himself didn't take them and just simply escaped. Kenshiro can just go intangible and they would have no effect. Shoot, Kenshiro could just use the attack right back on him.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Kid Goku hasn't done anything that Ken can't overcome. He would get stomped by Ken.

Multitudes faster? Sure so...how many punches could Goku throw in just a few seconds? Because Ken at least throw a hundred.

And he can infact take King Piccolo. Sure, he leveled a city but Kenshiro still has Musou Tensei. Plus, if I recall correctly, Goku was too injured to move when King Piccolo destroyed the city.
Yes... he has, and he's done it all before he was half of Ken's age at that.

Being > a city leveling being is something Ken can't overcome, to suggest otherwise is ludicrous beyond reason.

A hundred punches in a few seconds? Is that supposed to be impressive to me? Krillin and Roshi had a massive exchange of combos and had time to play a game all in the blink of an instant... and goku became so fast as a kid even they couldn't track his movements.
Kenshiro's handspeed is fairly common place in anime, DBZ takes it to another level when you take power scaling into account. So yeah, Goku's multitudes faster than Ken. It's not up for debate.

Musou Tensei is not an adequate answer for someone who can swat you away with a hurricane wind generated by a swat of their hand, and it's definitely not an answer to a city leveling blast. Especially when Ken's up against an opponent who's too fast for him in the first place.



Originally posted by Bro SMASH
You really underestimate Ken. Kenshiro has more deadlier techniques. He can turn the fight in his favor depending on which pressure points he hits. That's not saying it's gonna easily kill Goku (unless it's Kid Goku) but it would weaken him to the point Goku's chances of winning would be little to none.

"More deadlier" huh? lol

Yyyyyeah no, unless Kenshiro's gonna be busting up moons and mountains any time soon he's not nearly on the same level as Goku.

And pressure points?
Ughhhhh

Goku was axe proof, Goku was bullet proof, Goku was bomb proof and this was all when he was 7 or 8 years old.

How are pressure points going to work against someone who can resist attacks of the same level as what was described earlier? They won't. That's how.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
For a while in the series, Raoh>Kenshiro and Kid Goku has no chance of beating Raoh. Raoh fists are so powerful that he knocked another guy's hands off as he was blocking. Also, like Ken, Raoh's body is also much tougher than steel and top it all, Raoh ALSO knew Musou Tensei...yet Kid Goku is better? Please!
Yes... he's much better. I mean honestly now... Goku can launch people away from him with the simplest of motions using the air pressure generate by a flick of his wrist.. Again, we're supposed to be impressed by this FOTNS crap? No... just... no...


Originally posted by Bro SMASH
He can beat Nappa too. Knowing Nappa's character, he won't use his city destroying attack until he's really pissed but by that time, Ken would've already hit his pressure points and there's no telling how much weaker Nappa would be.

this is made of so much fail I can't even begin to respond.. LOL LOL LOL.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Kenshiro doesn't have to tank any of that to win. Heck, Goku himself didn't take them and just simply escaped. Kenshiro can just go intangible and they would have no effect. Shoot, Kenshiro could just use the attack right back on him. Because Goku is far faster, more agile, more powerful than Ken. Ken DOES have to tank that to win because that's what he'll be up against. Running away is not the same as a win here.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You're either a troll or something more unfortunate.

Lol I can see what you mean.

Originally posted by jinzin
Yes... he has, and he's done it all before he was half of Ken's age at that.

No he haven't.

Originally posted by jinzin
Being > a city leveling being is something Ken can't overcome, to suggest otherwise is ludicrous beyond reason.

Good thing Kid Goku isn't a city buster.

Originally posted by jinzin
A hundred punches in a few seconds? Is that supposed to be impressive to me? Krillin and Roshi had a massive exchange of combos and had time to play a game all in the blink of an instant... and goku became so fast as a kid even they couldn't track his movements.
Kenshiro's handspeed is fairly common place in anime, DBZ takes it to another level when you take power scaling into account. So yeah, Goku's multitudes faster than Ken. It's not up for debate.

Of course it's up for debate. Doing what Krillin and Roshi did isn't the same throwing about hundred punches in just a few seconds. And you make seem like moving so fast you can't be tracked is something that's too much for HNK, when it's a common thing even for Kenshiro.

Originally posted by jinzin
Musou Tensei is not an adequate answer for someone who can swat you away with a hurricane wind generated by a swat of their hand, and it's definitely not an answer to a city leveling blast. Especially when Ken's up against an opponent who's too fast for him in the first place.

Yet that person doesn't have any speed feats that are more impressive and have nothing to counter the attack.

Originally posted by jinzin
"More deadlier" huh? lol

Yyyyyeah no, unless Kenshiro's gonna be busting up moons and mountains any time soon he's not nearly on the same level as Goku.

And pressure points?
Ughhhhh

Goku was axe proof, Goku was bullet proof, Goku was bomb proof and this was all when he was 7 or 8 years old.

How are pressure points going to work against someone who can resist attacks of the same level as what was described earlier? They won't. That's how.

You do know that pressure point attacks are mostly pokes, right? Kid Goku can take those things, but that doesn't mean his insides are as strong and seeing as Ken is far stronger than a normal human, he definitely has enough force to strike them.

Originally posted by jinzin
Yes... he's much better. I mean honestly now... Goku can launch people away from him with the simplest of motions using the air pressure generate by a flick of his wrist.. Again, we're supposed to be impressed by this FOTNS crap? No... just... no...

Nanto attacks can allow sheer air pressure to cut people all the way through and you think I'm suppose to be impressed by what you said? Besides, that's basically all Goku can do; knock people away. Raoh can obviously do the same thing.


Originally posted by jinzin
this is made of so much fail I can't even begin to respond.. LOL LOL LOL.

You know it's the truth.

Originally posted by jinzin
Because Goku is far faster, more agile, more powerful than Ken. Ken DOES have to tank that to win because that's what he'll be up against. Running away is not the same as a win here.

I guess you missed that part where I said he can go intangible...or the fact that Goku didn't have to take it when he fought King Piccolo.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Kid Goku hasn't done anything that Ken can't overcome. He would get stomped by Ken.

Multitudes faster? Sure so...how many punches could Goku throw in just a few seconds? Because Ken at least throw a hundred.

And he can infact take King Piccolo. Sure, he leveled a city but Kenshiro still has Musou Tensei. Plus, if I recall correctly, Goku was too injured to move when King Piccolo destroyed the city.



You really underestimate Ken. Kenshiro has more deadlier techniques. He can turn the fight in his favor depending on which pressure points he hits. That's not saying it's gonna easily kill Goku (unless it's Kid Goku) but it would weaken him to the point Goku's chances of winning would be little to none.

For a while in the series, Raoh>Kenshiro and Kid Goku has no chance of beating Raoh. Raoh fists are so powerful that he knocked another guy's hands off as he was blocking. Also, like Ken, Raoh's body is also much tougher than steel and top it all, Raoh ALSO knew Musou Tensei...yet Kid Goku is better? Please!

He can beat Nappa too. Knowing Nappa's character, he won't use his city destroying attack until he's really pissed but by that time, Ken would've already hit his pressure points and there's no telling how much weaker Nappa would be.

Kenshiro doesn't have to tank any of that to win. Heck, Goku himself didn't take them and just simply escaped. Kenshiro can just go intangible and they would have no effect. Shoot, Kenshiro could just use the attack right back on him. 1. Except beat King Piccolo, right? Because King Piccolo could wave his hand and kill Ken.

2. A hundred... The altercation between Krillin and Master Roshi beats that vague feat, as does Mercenary Tao effortlessly outstripping the mach 14 pillar he threw.

3. Okay, I have to ask, what the hell is your point? Talking about the Goku being too injured to move. What? Does it all of a sudden mean Piccolo is more powerful?

4. Goku is so durable they would not even effect him. It would be like trying to hit the pressure point of a man in a suit of armor, only more difficult.

5. Only he beat King Piccolo. Who would vape Raoh. Funny, the knocking another man's fists off when he blocked? Nappa did the same thing, to Tien, to his entire forearm. Tougher than steel doesn't mean much when you can vape a city.

6. Only Kenshiro's face would no longer be attached to his skull, before he could think Nappa ripped it off. Oh, and Nappa destroyed alot more than the city, that blast was enough to destroy a small country.

7. Only before he could process a thought Kenshiro would be dead.

Do you not understand this argument?

Kenshiro has to think to use Muso Tensei, but Goku is fast enough to kill him before he can make that thought.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
No he haven't.



Good thing Kid Goku isn't a city buster.



Of course it's up for debate. Doing what Krillin and Roshi did isn't the same throwing about hundred punches in just a few seconds. And you make seem like moving so fast you can't be tracked is something that's too much for HNK, when it's a common thing even for Kenshiro.



Yet that person doesn't have any speed feats that are more impressive and have nothing to counter the attack.



You do know that pressure point attacks are mostly pokes, right? Kid Goku can take those things, but that doesn't mean his insides are as strong and seeing as Ken is far stronger than a normal human, he definitely has enough force to strike them.



Nanto attacks can allow sheer air pressure to cut people all the way through and you think I'm suppose to be impressed by what you said? Besides, that's basically all Goku can do; knock people away. Raoh can obviously do the same thing.




You know it's the truth.



I guess you missed that part where I said he can go intangible...or the fact that Goku didn't have to take it when he fought King Piccolo.

You want to know your problem... you are bringing up all these feats but majority of them were done to people with human level durability (maybe a little tougher than human level). That's why I am asking you who is thed toughest oerson ken has damaged because I can't see him damaging goku.

Also, you keep throwing out that goku, nappa, etc... will not use all of their attacks from the begining but you fail to realize that what you are saying about them applies to ken as well... can you show me ken going intangible in the beginning of a fight?

If this is a serious goku ken lose this fight at the beginning of the sound of the bell... he is going to get his inside punched out and again I am reffering to kid goku... the one that fought king picollo.

Kid goku was fighting people that ken fight during the beginning of dragonball and he was one shotting them.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. Except beat King Piccolo, right? Because King Piccolo could wave his hand and kill Ken.

2. A hundred... The altercation between Krillin and Master Roshi beats that vague feat, as does Mercenary Tao effortlessly outstripping the mach 14 pillar he threw.

3. Okay, I have to ask, what the hell is your point? Talking about the Goku being too injured to move. What? Does it all of a sudden mean Piccolo is more powerful?

4. Goku is so durable they would not even effect him. It would be like trying to hit the pressure point of a man in a suit of armor, only more difficult.

5. Only he beat King Piccolo. Who would vape Raoh. Funny, the knocking another man's fists off when he blocked? Nappa did the same thing, to Tien, to his entire forearm. Tougher than steel doesn't mean much when you can vape a city.

6. Only Kenshiro's face would no longer be attached to his skull, before he could think Nappa ripped it off. Oh, and Nappa destroyed alot more than the city, that blast was enough to destroy a small country.

7. Only before he could process a thought Kenshiro would be dead.

Do you not understand this argument?

Kenshiro has to think to use Muso Tensei, but Goku is fast enough to kill him before he can make that thought.

1. Yet in order to actually hit Ken, Ken has be too hurt move, right?

2. What they did wasn't more impressive than throwing a hundred punches in a few seconds. And just to let you know, Ken himself has gotten much faster since then.

3. No, I was just pointing out that Goku could have avoided that attack before Piccolo fired it but he had an injured knee (if I remember correctly) and thus couldn't move fast enough.

4. No matter how much you try to deny it, unless he's got specific techniques that blocks pressure point hits, he's not withstanding them.

5. King Piccolo nearly vaped Goku and still lost (mainly because Goku had help). Don't think he's suddenly gonna catch Raoh off-guard with his blast.

6. Only Nappa isn't catching Ken to do that and of course, Ken sure isn't gonna leave himself open to that.

7. Goku has knowledge of Musou Tensei and is just gonna attack? Please!

Goku's not fast enough to kill Kenshiro before he can make his thoughts. As soon as Ken senses how dangerous his opponent is, he'll have all his attacks set. Goku would only have a chance to hit Ken before it happens if he either gets a headstart or if he already knows about Musou Tensei.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
1. Yet in order to actually hit Ken, Ken has be too hurt move, right?

2. What they did wasn't more impressive than throwing a hundred punches in a few seconds. And just to let you know, Ken himself has gotten much faster since then.

3. No, I was just pointing out that Goku could have avoided that attack before Piccolo fired it but he had an injured knee (if I remember correctly) and thus couldn't move fast enough.

4. No matter how much you try to deny it, unless he's got specific techniques that blocks pressure point hits, he's not withstanding them.

5. King Piccolo nearly vaped Goku and still lost (mainly because Goku had help). Don't think he's suddenly gonna catch Raoh off-guard with his blast.

6. Only Nappa isn't catching Ken to do that and of course, Ken sure isn't gonna leave himself open to that.

7. Goku has knowledge of Musou Tensei and is just gonna attack? Please!

Goku's not fast enough to kill Kenshiro before he can make his thoughts. As soon as Ken senses how dangerous his opponent is, he'll have all his attacks set. Goku would only have a chance to hit Ken before it happens if he either gets a headstart or if he already knows about Musou Tensei.

So you are saying that ken can outrun a city level destroying blast?

Originally posted by carver9
You want to know your problem... you are bringing up all these feats but majority of them were done to people with human level durability (maybe a little tougher than human level). That's why I am asking you who is thed toughest oerson ken has damaged because I can't see him damaging goku.

Also, you keep throwing out that goku, nappa, etc... will not use all of their attacks from the begining but you fail to realize that what you are saying about them applies to ken as well... can you show me ken going intangible in the beginning of a fight?

If this is a serious goku ken lose this fight at the beginning of the sound of the bell... he is going to get his inside punched out and again I am reffering to kid goku... the one that fought king picollo.

Kid goku was fighting people that ken fight during the beginning of dragonball and he was one shotting them.

Like I said before, I hadn't seen all of New Fist of the North Star (which takes place after FOTNS 2) so I don't know who was his strongest opponent. Therefore all I can think of is Kaioh.

Just look at Kenshiro's last two fights with Raoh. He uses them depending how dangerous his opponent is. Goku (not Kid Goku) and Nappa would surely be dangerous opponents.

Kid Goku stands no chance at all. He doesn't have enough advantages to win against Kenshiro. I doubt Ken would even have to use Musou Tensei against him then.

Ken can one-shot those people too. It's not that impressive.

Originally posted by carver9
So you are saying that ken can outrun a city level destroying blast?

Nope but he can either jump really high in the air to avoid it or just stop King Piccolo before he can do it.

Double post.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Like I said before, I hadn't all of New Fist of the North Star (which takes place after FOTNS 2) so I don't know who was his strongest opponent. Therefore all I can think of is Kaioh.

Just look at Kenshiro's last two fights with Raoh. He uses them depending how dangerous his opponent is. Goku (not Kid Goku) and Nappa would surely be dangerous opponents.

Kid Goku stands no chance at all. He doesn't have enough advantages to win against Kenshiro. I doubt Ken would even have to use Musou Tensei against him then.

Ken can one-shot those people too. It's not that impressive.

kid goku does have an advantage over ken... he have a speed, durability and possibly a strength advantage. You are truly over hyping ken... what ken fight daily ken goku ran through them like water.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Nope but he can either jump really high in the air to avoid it or just stop King Piccolo before he can do it.

Show me ken avoiding that type of blast and I was talking about nappas blast. Then in the beginning of your post you say that ken can take on super saiyan goku... do you honestly believe that ken can take on frieza, a true planet buster?

Not to mention that Goku is an alien so we could be seeing the whole Souther problem happen all over again with Ken not knowing where his power points are.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Not to mention that Goku is an alien so we could be seeing the whole Souther problem happen all over again with Ken not knowing where his power points are.

Wow I didn't think about that.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
No he haven't.


Lol "no he haven't." Hehehe!

Look.. Yes he "have".



Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Good thing Kid Goku isn't a city buster.
So you admit that it's a good thing if they are not a city buster? I see.... so then it must be a bad thing if they are right?

Yknow.... Roshi vaped a moon... at a power level that was dwarfed by Goku's the 2nd or 3rd time he entered the Worlds MA tournement?
The only reason Goku wouldn't be a "city buster" is because he actually cares about bystanders... that by no means indicates he can't do it... Especially when a teenage goku made a blast so big it dwarfed the city of the island he was on, and then the island, and then caused catostrophic tsunami's as a result....

You're being ludicrous, as stated before.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Of course it's up for debate. Doing what Krillin and Roshi did isn't the same throwing about hundred punches in just a few seconds.
No it's not the same, it's much more impressive actually.

They had a massive exchange of blows between themselves involving acrobatics, flips and leaps across the stage, spitting at one another AND still had time to play a childrens game (of what was it? Rocks papers scissors I think) all before landing the final exchange.... and all this... in an instant.... In a flash that no one could follow. That's not even a 1 second feat.. it's a nano or micro second feat... and this is from the characters at some of their weakest stages in the Manga.

This isn't a case of just sheer hand speed at work, it's a feat of complete maneuvarability. You need to understand the difference; They can think, comprehend, communicate and fight at such a speed, and they are literally NO CONTEST weaklings compared to the Goku who fought King Piccolo.



Originally posted by Bro SMASH
And you make seem like moving so fast you can't be tracked is something that's too much for HNK, when it's a common thing even for Kenshiro.

Again, no it's not.
It's one thing to be unable to be tracked by human beings or canon fodder... but when it comes to other superhumans on a Dragonball level? It's another story.

Power scaling... you need to apply it to anime characters and DBZ is no different.
We have the Roshi/Krillin feat, which is one thing, but in Draganball alone there are at the LEAST 4 times where characters faster than Roshi as described earlier, too fast for HIM with HIS SPEED to register are further outstripped by Goku to the same Degree...

What's more impressive being too fast for a regular human to see?
Or being faster than Ultimate Quicksilver could comprehend?

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Yet that person doesn't have any speed feats that are more impressive and have nothing to counter the attack.

Uh yeah, he does we just went over some of them, so basically this is a nu-uh argument from you and I'll be apt to ignore it.

It doesn't matter if you think Goku's faster or not (well he IS faster but I'm begining to grasp just how thick you can be) because Ken being within Goku's personal bubble is going to go quite badly for him. Ken can send waterfalls upwards with his aura? That's nice.... Goku can shake planets with his...

Again... hand wave> City.... How do you imagine Ken will close any gap on this type of power?

Also....
What exactly do you think this attack is going to do?

Show me. Please.



Originally posted by Bro SMASH
You do know that pressure point attacks are mostly pokes, right? Kid Goku can take those things, but that doesn't mean his insides are as strong and seeing as Ken is far stronger than a normal human, he definitely has enough force to strike them.

I know what pressure points are... Yes... actually I'm intimately familiar with them, 20 some odd years of MA experience will do that.... And the only way pressure points work is if they manage to land on a vulnerable area, too bad Goku doesn't have any. As stated earlier you won't be able to pressure point someone under plate armor and that's basically what you're suggesting here.
And yes his insides are just as strong as he his, this is proved when he transferred to 10x Earth's gravity and his body could still function without issue.

You're arguments are getting weaker and weaker....

Bottem line?
Goku's too damned durable for pressure points to work in the first place.
He's too damned fast for Ken to T off on him in the second.
And, he's too damned (speaking collaterally) powerful for Ken to close in on in the third...
Pressure points.................... Possibly the lamest anti-Goku argument I've seen yet.



Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Nanto attacks can allow sheer air pressure to cut people all the way through and you think I'm suppose to be impressed by what you said? Besides, that's basically all Goku can do; knock people away. Raoh can obviously do the same thing.

What I'm reffering to isn't a "technique" though which is the difference. It's just sheer strength.... Not even powered up at that...

And if you think all Goku can do is knock people away you're only showing off your ignorance yet again... The person he tossed was Chichi as if he'd try to hurt her.

Again King Piccolo... Seismic winds.




Originally posted by Bro SMASH
You know it's the truth.

That you're ludicrous beyond reason perhaps...
Ken being > Nappa? No..... that's just fail.



Originally posted by Bro SMASH
I guess you missed that part where I said he can go intangible...or the fact that Goku didn't have to take it when he fought King Piccolo. Actually Goku did... so that's that... and yeah intangible... show me...
Show me that being an effective offensive...

again... running away is not a win here.

Originally posted by carver9
kid goku does have an advantage over ken... he have a speed, durability and possibly a strength advantage. You are truly over hyping ken... what ken fight daily ken goku ran through them like water.

Kid Goku's speed and durability aren't any better than Ken's and I'm talking about FOTNS Ken.

Originally posted by carver9
Show me ken avoiding that type of blast and I was talking about nappas blast. Then in the beginning of your post you say that ken can take on super saiyan goku... do you honestly believe that ken can take on frieza, a true planet buster?

During Ken's first fight with Raoh, they both jumped real high in the air, exchanging blows before hitting the ground. Also, I didn't say Kenshiro could win against SSJ1 Goku. I said he could be more of a challenge, as I don't think base form Goku stands a chance against Ken.

As for Freiza, that really depends on the situation. If Freiza decides to get serious, Ken would lose obviously but if Freiza toys around too much, it may not ever get to that point.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Kid Goku's speed and durability aren't any better than Ken's and I'm talking about FOTNS Ken.

Yes they are in multitudes and Ken being "anime fast" doesn't change that one bit...



Originally posted by Bro SMASH
During Ken's first fight with Raoh, they both jumped real high in the air, exchanging blows before hitting the ground. Also, I didn't say Kenshiro could win against SSJ1 Goku. I said he could be more of a challenge, as I don't think base form Goku stands a chance against Ken.

As for Freiza, that really depends on the situation. If Freiza decides to get serious, Ken would lose obviously but if Freiza toys around too much, it may not ever get to that point.





You think he could take..... Frieza......

Casual planet busting, stronger faster more durable than the Ginyu team combined Frieza?

less than 1% power = over a million Frieza?






You are completely and utterly delusional.... that's all there is to it, you are stone cold ****ing NUTZ. This isn't even amusing anymore.

Originally posted by jinzin
Lol "no he haven't." Hehehe!

Look.. Yes he "have".

So show me where Goku can throw just as many punches as Kenshiro.

Originally posted by jinzin
So you admit that it's a good thing if they are not a city buster? I see.... so then it must be a bad thing if they are right?

Yknow.... Roshi vaped a moon... at a power level that was dwarfed by Goku's the 2nd or 3rd time he entered the Worlds MA tournement?
The only reason Goku wouldn't be a "city buster" is because he actually cares about bystanders... that by no means indicates he can't do it... Especially when a teenage goku made a blast so big it dwarfed the city of the island he was on, and then the island, and then caused catostrophic tsunami's as a result....

You're being ludicrous, as stated before.

Goku may have been stronger than Roshi by the second tournament but I wouldn't say his power "dwarfed" Roshi's. And if you think that means something, think again because there are many ways to be stronger than somebody.

As you stated already, that was teen Goku and he did with a Kamehameha.

Originally posted by jinzin
No it's not the same, it's much more impressive actually.

They had a massive exchange of blows between themselves involving acrobatics, flips and leaps across the stage, spitting at one another AND still had time to play a childrens game (of what was it? Rocks papers scissors I think) all before landing the final exchange.... and all this... in an instant.... In a flash that no one could follow. That's not even a 1 second feat.. it's a nano or micro second feat... and this is from the characters at some of their weakest stages in the Manga.

This isn't a case of just sheer hand speed at work, it's a feat of complete maneuvarability. You need to understand the difference; They can think, comprehend, communicate and fight at such a speed, and they are literally NO CONTEST weaklings compared to the Goku who fought King Piccolo.

Okay, first think about this again. Throwing a hundred punches in just a few seconds is more impressive than you think and that's with constant movement too. Even though what Krillin and Roshi did was fast, they really didn't do much compared to Kenshiro.

Also, this may be just me but I don't even take the Krillin and Roshi part seriously, as it seemed like a joke/parody moment.

Originally posted by jinzin
Again, no it's not.
It's one thing to be unable to be tracked by human beings or canon fodder... but when it comes to other superhumans on a Dragonball level? It's another story.

Power scaling... you need to apply it to anime characters and DBZ is no different.
We have the Roshi/Krillin feat, which is one thing, but in Draganball alone there are at the LEAST 4 times where characters faster than Roshi as described earlier, too fast for HIM with HIS SPEED to register are further outstripped by Goku to the same Degree...

What's more impressive being too fast for a regular human to see?
Or being faster than Ultimate Quicksilver could comprehend?

Superhumans have been unable to track Kenshiro too, not just common thugs. Shin, Ambia, Ughur, Sachi, heck even Raoh can't see him at times.


Originally posted by jinzin
Uh yeah, he does we just went over some of them, so basically this is a nu-uh argument from you and I'll be apt to ignore it.

Those feats were nothing, dude.

Originally posted by jinzin
It doesn't matter if you think Goku's faster or not (well he IS faster but I'm begining to grasp just how thick you can be) because Ken being within Goku's personal bubble is going to go quite badly for him. Ken can send waterfalls upwards with his aura? That's nice.... Goku can shake planets with his...

Again... hand wave> City.... How do you imagine Ken will close any gap on this type of power?

Also....
What exactly do you think this attack is going to do?

Show me. Please.


Didn't Goku shake the planet when he went SSJ3, something we're not discussing? And again, Musou Tensei allows him to go intangible.


Originally posted by jinzin
I know what pressure points are... Yes... actually I'm intimately familiar with them, 20 some odd years of MA experience will do that.... And the only way pressure points work is if they manage to land on a vulnerable area, too bad Goku doesn't have any. As stated earlier you won't be able to pressure point someone under plate armor and that's basically what you're suggesting here.
And yes his insides are just as strong as he his, this is proved when he transferred to 10x Earth's gravity and his body could still function without issue.

You're arguments are getting weaker and weaker....

Bottem line?
Goku's too damned durable for pressure points to work in the first place.
He's too damned fast for Ken to T off on him in the second.
And, he's too damned (speaking collaterally) powerful for Ken to close in on in the third...
Pressure points.................... Possibly the lamest anti-Goku argument I've seen yet.

You would have a point here if Kenshiro was just a normal human, in which he's clearly not. As you should know already, it doesn't take much force to hit pressure points and Ken did this to many people on superhuman levels. As for the gravity, what does that got to do with someone's insides? It may work for their physical appearance but his insides are still vulnerable.

Originally posted by jinzin
What I'm reffering to isn't a "technique" though which is the difference. It's just sheer strength.... Not even powered up at that...

And if you think all Goku can do is knock people away you're only showing off your ignorance yet again... The person he tossed was Chichi as if he'd try to hurt her.

Again King Piccolo... Seismic winds.

I really don't see what you're trying to say here, as it really didn't mean that Goku doesn't knock people away.

Originally posted by jinzin
That you're ludicrous beyond reason perhaps...
Ken being > Nappa? No..... that's just fail.

Oh let me guess, he can destroy a city. That's gonna help against a guy that can go intangible. Cut the crap!

Originally posted by jinzin
Actually Goku did... so that's that... and yeah intangible... show me...
Show me that being an effective offensive...

again... running away is not a win here.

Actually, Goku didn't. Both when he fought King Piccolo and Nappa, he escaped (the former was when he needed help).

Kenshiro simply can't be hit when he's intangible. Why should I go into detail about that?

Originally posted by jinzin
Yes they are in multitudes and Ken being "anime fast" doesn't change that one bit...

No they're not. They've not done anything that hasn't been done in HNK.



Originally posted by jinzin


You think he could take..... Frieza......

Casual planet busting, stronger faster more durable than the Ginyu team combined Frieza?

less than 1% power = over a million Frieza?





You are completely and utterly delusional.... that's all there is to it, you are stone cold ****ing NUTZ. This isn't even amusing anymore.

It's funny that with all of that, you didn't come up with a single counterargument.

That's because the notion is absurd. How could Kenshiro beat Freeza?

By hitting his pressure points, obviously (though it is a possibility his pressure points might be different).

I would say there's more than a "possibility" of it. Maybe the Saiyans could be debatable (they can crossbread with humans after all), but Freeza is radically different and I would be very surprised if his physiology was even close to a human's.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I would say there's more than a "possibility" of it. Maybe the Saiyans could be debatable (they can crossbread with humans after all), but Freeza is radically different and I would be very surprised if his physiology was even close to a human's.

Seriously, the dude's a friggin changeling as it is.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
No they're not. They've not done anything that hasn't been done in HNK.





It's funny that with all of that, you didn't come up with a single counterargument.


I don't think I need to give a counter argument at this point...

Your entire debate revolves around putting Ken on the same level of power, durability, speed and strength as Goku up to a god damned super saiyan... if that isn't delusional I don't know what is.
Bottem line:
You lost whatever credability you could have possibly had in this thread the moment you said Ken could beat Freiza... that's as stated before... Bat shit INSANE... and if you honestly believe he stands a chance in hell of beating Frieza no amount of PROOF (yknow the stuff myself and carver are ACTUALLY USING) I bring to the table is going to convince you that he can't beat DB goku...


Not to mention: it doesn't help that you think Ken's going to be intangible the entire fight, OR that you understand the difference between a second and a split/nano/micro second. But whatever... you're crazy and that's that.

Personally I would use a different word, one rhyming with Cupid.

Brosmash this clip is for you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqetwDU3v1w

Start the film at 1 min and 51 seconds... durability feat.

Go to 6 minutes and 30 seconds... Ken have no way of countering this if Goku speed off this fast.

6 minutes and 53 seconds Goku is punched through a brick wall and bounce up immediately without anyone noticing it.

Goku is>junior and look at the blasting power junior created... 9 minutes and 15 seconds.

Remember, Goku and Picollo are pretty much equals in all sense during this fight... fast forward this to 5 minutes and first look at the pure power of Goku's blast and Picollo TANKED it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCvOKFshQe0&feature=related

Fast forward it to 2 minutes and 19 seconds, picks up picollo and slams him...

Now this is the impressive part... fast forward that same film to 4 minutes... not only is picollo huge as hell but he literally steps on Goku and use his leg strength to try to crush Goku... not only does Goku push against this with his own strength vs Picollo strength, he lifts him up off the ground and toss him while again, Picollo was trying to crush him.

Fast forward this to one minute and 53 seconds. Goku basically survives a nuke without a scratch on him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUDCa-HcG5M&feature=related

Fast forward this... Goku basically fight so fast that his body turns into a living tornadoe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zc9w6NZRQc


Punching 100 times in a couple of seconds, that aint nothing... look at tiens hand during this scene and he is much weaker than the Goku that I posted above. Fast forward this to 2 minutes and 20 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd48reudEqM&NR=1

Start this film at 54 seconds... Kid Goku basically throw King Picollo through a building destroying the entire building.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAWXfV_Qnl8&feature=related


This entire fight make me beleive that Kid Goku would crush Ken.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anyXEYFzkbI

I have no comments on Frieza vs Ken since I know that one punch from Frieza would make Ken body explode into small pieces.

Originally posted by jinzin

I don't think I need to give a counter argument at this point...

Your entire debate revolves around putting Ken on the same level of power, durability, speed and strength as Goku up to a god damned super saiyan... if that isn't delusional I don't know what is.
Bottem line:
You lost whatever credability you could have possibly had in this thread the moment you said Ken could beat Freiza... that's as stated before... Bat shit INSANE... and if you honestly believe he stands a chance in hell of beating Frieza no amount of PROOF (yknow the stuff myself and carver are ACTUALLY USING) I bring to the table is going to convince you that he can't beat DB goku...


Not to mention: it doesn't help that you think Ken's going to be intangible the entire fight, OR that you understand the difference between a second and a split/nano/micro second. But whatever... you're crazy and that's that.

You and Carver aren't using any proof. All you mostly do is use the typical A>B>C logic that most DBZ supporters do.

Also, where did I put Kenshiro as the same level of durability, strength, speed, or power as SSJ1 Goku? Or is reading posts before you respond is too much for you?

As for the the Freiza part, yeah, I don't know why I asked you that last question because all you're crying about is "OOH YOU SAID KEN CAN BEAT FREIZA" without actually reading what I said.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
You and Carver aren't using any proof. All you mostly do is use the typical A>B>C logic that most DBZ supporters do.

Also, where did I put Kenshiro as the same level of durability, strength, speed, or power as SSJ1 Goku? Or is reading posts before you respond is too much for you?

As for the the Freiza part, yeah, I don't know why I asked you that last question because all you're crying about is "OOH YOU SAID KEN CAN BEAT FREIZA" without actually reading what I said.

Show me abc logic that I used during my post.

Originally posted by carver9
Brosmash this clip is for you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqetwDU3v1w

Start the film at 1 min and 51 seconds... durability feat.

So he got hit by a blast. So what?

Originally posted by carver9
Go to 6 minutes and 30 seconds... Ken have no way of countering this if Goku speed off this fast.

6 minutes and 53 seconds Goku is punched through a brick wall and bounce up immediately without anyone noticing it.

Goku is>junior and look at the blasting power junior created... 9 minutes and 15 seconds.

Remember, Goku and Picollo are pretty much equals in all sense during this fight... fast forward this to 5 minutes and first look at the pure power of Goku's blast and Picollo TANKED it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCvOKFshQe0&feature=related

Fast forward it to 2 minutes and 19 seconds, picks up picollo and slams him...

Just look at Kenshiro's fight with Ambia. He too moved so fast he couldn't be tracked. Plus he was right infront of Ambia. He would definitely track Goku if he was moving that fast.

Also, I already admitted Kenshiro's blasting power isn't on par with Goku's.

Originally posted by carver9
Now this is the impressive part... fast forward that same film to 4 minutes... not only is picollo huge as hell but he literally steps on Goku and use his leg strength to try to crush Goku... not only does Goku push against this with his own strength vs Picollo strength, he lifts him up off the ground and toss him while again, Picollo was trying to crush him.

Should I remind you that Kenshiro also fought and killed a giant "demon"? And early in the series at that?

Originally posted by carver9
Fast forward this to one minute and 53 seconds. Goku basically survives a nuke without a scratch on him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUDCa-HcG5M&feature=related

Fast forward this... Goku basically fight so fast that his body turns into a living tornadoe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zc9w6NZRQc

I'll be honest, that was impressive but I wouldn't call that a nuke.

As for the tornado part, you know darn well he wasn't fighting and that would be a bad thing to do in a real fight anyway.

Originally posted by carver9
Punching 100 times in a couple of seconds, that aint nothing... look at tiens hand during this scene and he is much weaker than the Goku that I posted above. Fast forward this to 2 minutes and 20 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd48reudEqM&NR=1

Except, how do you know that was a hundred hits? That was never stated or hinted. Also, I guess I should remind you that before Kenshiro became the successor, he punched 17 times in less than a second and during his fight with Han, he was punching so fast his hits weren't even seen.

Originally posted by carver9
Start this film at 54 seconds... Kid Goku basically throw King Picollo through a building destroying the entire building.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAWXfV_Qnl8&feature=related

So how much did Piccolo weigh?

Originally posted by carver9
This entire fight make me beleive that Kid Goku would crush Ken.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anyXEYFzkbI

All because he runs around doing his afterimage technique? Sorry, it's gonna take more than that to beat Ken.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
So he got hit by a blast. So what?



Just look at Kenshiro's fight with Ambia. He too moved so fast he couldn't be tracked. Plus he was right infront of Ambia. He would definitely track Goku if he was moving that fast.

Also, I already admitted Kenshiro's blasting power isn't on par with Goku's.



Should I remind you that Kenshiro also fought and killed a giant "demon"? And early in the series at that?



I'll be honest, that was impressive but I wouldn't call that a nuke.

As for the tornado part, you know darn well he wasn't fighting and that would be a bad thing to do in a real fight anyway.



Except, how do you know that was a hundred hits? That was never stated or hinted. Also, I guess I should remind you that before Kenshiro became the successor, he punched 17 times in less than a second and during his fight with Han, he was punching so fast his hits weren't even seen.



So how much did Piccolo weigh?



All because he runs around doing his afterimage technique? Sorry, it's gonna take more than that to beat Ken.


No... he didn't just get hit by one blast... he got hit by numerous of blast while hitting concrete head first from cloud height and he tanked all of it.

How would he track goku moving that fast? Show me ken tracking someone moving at invisible speeds like that.
I know kenshiro power blast isn't on par with goku and there is nothing to suggest that he could tank a blast from goku. This is the same guy that has been hit across the face with a boulder and left scars on him. This version of goku could literally punch a hole in him.

Ken might have fought a giant but I know he didn't outmatch him strength wise and I also know that ken wasn't tossing this giant around like goku did.

Why wasn't it a nuke... it leveled the entire island and again this feat put goku durability as a teen over kens.

All of your speed feats still fail and isn't close to even master roshi and krillin showing. Punching 17 times in one sec isn't sh**.

It doesn't matter how much picollo weighed... look at the damage he caused just by throwing him.

You could be right about the last vid I showed but the only thing that you have showed is that ken can move his arms and legs fast... that's not that impressive either. Do you have one showing of a maneaver combat feat instead of him standing in one spot kicking and punching?

Don't bother Carver, this ignoramous thinks Kenshiro can beat Frieza... that the possibility even exists.... There's no need to argue with that kinda thickness.

I should have known it would take Bro Smash to make carver seem logical.

Originally posted by carver9
No... he didn't just get hit by one blast... he got hit by numerous of blast while hitting concrete head first from cloud height and he tanked all of it.

So what? Ken hardly ever use ki blasts.

Originally posted by carver9
How would he track goku moving that fast? Show me ken tracking someone moving at invisible speeds like that.
I know kenshiro power blast isn't on par with goku and there is nothing to suggest that he could tank a blast from goku. This is the same guy that has been hit across the face with a boulder and left scars on him. This version of goku could literally punch a hole in him.

No he wouldn't. Also, like I said before, Kenshiro was able to fight with Han whose punches are literally like the wind. And there were at times Han couldn't see Ken's fist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi38Q5_79Q0&feature=related

Originally posted by carver9
Ken might have fought a giant but I know he didn't outmatch him strength wise and I also know that ken wasn't tossing this giant around like goku did.

But that means nothing unless you can tell me how much he weighs because as we found out later, Goku couldn't lift 40 tons. Also, the giant was probably more durable than Ken too but that doesn't change the fact that Ken was able to hit his pressure points. That just shows you that your insides aren't as durable as your skin.

Originally posted by carver9
Why wasn't it a nuke... it leveled the entire island and again this feat put goku durability as a teen over kens.

Did it look like that in the manga?

Originally posted by carver9
All of your speed feats still fail and isn't close to even master roshi and krillin showing. Punching 17 times in one sec isn't sh**.

Explain why?

Originally posted by carver9
It doesn't matter how much picollo weighed... look at the damage he caused just by throwing him.

It kind of does. We already know he doesn't weigh 40 tons so how much did he weigh?

Originally posted by carver9
You could be right about the last vid I showed but the only thing that you have showed is that ken can move his arms and legs fast... that's not that impressive either. Do you have one showing of a maneaver combat feat instead of him standing in one spot kicking and punching?

I could show you him keeping up with a teleporter but that only occured in the anime (unless we're using non-canon sources). I'll once again refer you to his fight with Ambia where there was hardly any trace his movement. Though I don't see why all of that is necessary, since Goku would get in close to hit Ken, in which point, Ken would hit his pressure points.

Originally posted by jinzin
Don't bother Carver, this ignoramous thinks Kenshiro can beat Frieza... that the possibility even exists.... There's no need to argue with that kinda thickness.

I think you should be more concerned about your reading.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I should have known it would take Bro Smash to make carver seem logical.

Everyone seems logical compared to you.

Oh no dear boy, I am a genius.

Delusional as ever, huh Nemebro?

Kenshiro won't be able to activate Goku's pressure points... For instance Kiba Daio couldn't be hurt by pressure points due to his iron skin, Kenshiro had to soften him up first deactivating the technique.

Kenshiro softened him up by hitting his pressure points.

Lol... hilarious.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Kenshiro softened him up by hitting his pressure points.
He removed the skin by hitting the pressure point on his chest with a steel beam. But before that he hit him over and over. And in any case, Kiba Daio is no Goku. Even as a kid he could resist bullets.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
I think you should be more concerned about your reading.


I need to be more concerned with my reading?


Lol... uh no, I've read everything you've written much to the dismay of my brain cells...

But I think you probably meant my reading COMPREHENSION.... since that's the only way this statement makes any sense. Either way... it's pretty rich coming from someone which as many errors as you've made in this thread alone.

Originally posted by jinzin
I need to be more concerned with my reading?


Lol... uh no, I've read everything you've written much to the dismay of my brain cells...

But I think you probably meant my reading COMPREHENSION.... since that's the only way this statement makes any sense. Either way... it's pretty rich coming from someone which as many errors as you've made in this thread alone.

Obviously, you haven't read everything I said, that's why I said you need to work on your READING...and I mean period.

First lets start with you getting where I said that Kenshiro can beat Freiza. Please post where I said that (I don't want anybody else posting it either).

Originally posted by King Kandy
He removed the skin by hitting the pressure point on his chest with a steel beam. But before that he hit him over and over. And in any case, Kiba Daio is no Goku. Even as a kid he could resist bullets.

The steel beam didn't do anything at first. That's when Ken hit his pressure points with his fists. Only then the steel beam did something. Kiba is no Goku but that was pretty early in the series and Ken has gotten much stronger since then.

So what's the gist of the argument from both sides here?

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
The steel beam didn't do anything at first. That's when Ken hit his pressure points with his fists. Only then the steel beam did something. Kiba is no Goku but that was pretty early in the series and Ken has gotten much stronger since then.

Even if he gottent stronger that still doesnt prove that he can pierce someone like Kid Goku whos skin is much stronger than the skin of that being that he was trying to punch through but failed to do. He had to land multiple of licks to accomplish anything... he's not going to have that same luxury with Goku.

One punch from Goku should end the fight.

As for your hundred punch scenerio... here we have a holding back... playing around trunks... ripping through 6 henchmen and then one of them, he carve little pieces into his suit and from the front to the back and even cut his scouter. So basically he drew designs on his chest with his sword and numerous of squares out of his uniform and again, he did this in seconds, probably less. Lets not forget... Goku proved during his arrival back that he was> that trunks. I dont care about feats like that though... I want to see Ken combating with someone that also have super speed and both of them are moving their entire body at tremendous speed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIrk6e_mufo

Then we have THIS... start at one minute... this is Goku vs the Ginyu force... Have a question by the way, do you honestly believe that Ken can solo the ginyu force like none super saiyan Goku did? Back to my post, we have Burta alone moving so fast that time stopped. With all that speed that Burta had (moving so fast that time itself STOPPED) he was still unable to tag or even TOUCH Goku. Lets not even bring up the fact that frieza and Goku have fight scenes where they did entire moves and combos while everything around them stayed still (time stopped) and I'm referring to black hair Goku. Ken doesnt stand a chance in hell at touching or let alone beating Goku.

This is Goku vs Ginyu force where, start one minute into the scene...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCJhkMhnUR0

Here is Burta's speed feat... moving so fast that time stopped. Start 40 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7S61LCHGFU&feature=related

That burta scene happening during the time they were introducing the Ginyu Force powers. Right after that Burta states that he is one of the fastest beings in the universe when he come back with the dragonball.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
The steel beam didn't do anything at first. That's when Ken hit his pressure points with his fists. Only then the steel beam did something. Kiba is no Goku but that was pretty early in the series and Ken has gotten much stronger since then.
He hit Kiba Daios face, and then hit hi in the chest with the steel beam, while saying he had touched his breast pressure point, obviously it was the steel beam and not the punches. Regardless, the point still stands that immense durability does give some protection against Hokuto Shinken.

Originally posted by carver9
Even if he gottent stronger that still doesnt prove that he can pierce someone like Kid Goku whos skin is much stronger than the skin of that being that he was trying to punch through but failed to do. He had to land multiple of licks to accomplish anything... he's not going to have that same luxury with Goku.

One punch from Goku should end the fight.

As for your hundred punch scenerio... here we have a holding back... playing around trunks... ripping through 6 henchmen and then one of them, he carve little pieces into his suit and from the front to the back and even cut his scouter. So basically he drew designs on his chest with his sword and numerous of squares out of his uniform and again, he did this in seconds, probably less. Lets not forget... Goku proved during his arrival back that he was> that trunks. I dont care about feats like that though... I want to see Ken combating with someone that also have super speed and both of them are moving their entire body at tremendous speed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIrk6e_mufo

Then we have THIS... start at one minute... this is Goku vs the Ginyu force... Have a question by the way, do you honestly believe that Ken can solo the ginyu force like none super saiyan Goku did? Back to my post, we have Burta alone moving so fast that time stopped. With all that speed that Burta had (moving so fast that time itself STOPPED) he was still unable to tag or even TOUCH Goku. Lets not even bring up the fact that frieza and Goku have fight scenes where they did entire moves and combos while everything around them stayed still (time stopped) and I'm referring to black hair Goku. Ken doesnt stand a chance in hell at touching or let alone beating Goku.

This is Goku vs Ginyu force where, start one minute into the scene...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCJhkMhnUR0

Here is Burta's speed feat... moving so fast that time stopped. Start 40 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7S61LCHGFU&feature=related

I already saw that fight numerous times. Still, none of that indicates that they're gonna touch a guy who's intangible.

Also, I already provided a video of Kenshiro fighting someone at superspeed. The reason Kenshiro doesn't move his entire body the whole time is because it's usually isn't needed. There have been at times where he has jumped high in the air and fought someone before hitting the ground but most of the time, such stuff isn't needed.

Originally posted by King Kandy
He hit Kiba Daios face, and then hit hi in the chest with the steel beam, while saying he had touched his breast pressure point, obviously it was the steel beam and not the punches. Regardless, the point still stands that immense durability does give some protection against Hokuto Shinken.

That must've been a translation error because he didn't hit him in the chest at all.

Also, durability MAY give some protection but as long hits still simulates a poke (whether it's an actual poke or a real strong hit), that person is still vulnerable to pressure point attacks.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
That must've been a translation error because he didn't hit him in the chest at all.

Also, durability MAY give some protection but as long hits still simulates a poke (whether it's an actual poke or a real strong hit), that person is still vulnerable to pressure point attacks.
Sure he did. The metal beam, on the hit that finally hurt him, hit him in his torsoe.

Nah. Pressure points may not require penetrating the skin, but you nonetheless do have to use enough force to affect it below the skin. Ever notice how for Amiba to hit the new pressure points he discovered, he would have to dig in very deep compared to Ken? Those points hadn't already been discovered, likely for that very reason that they were too far below the surface.

Toki explained how touching a pressure point hard will destroy, but pressing it lightly may have no effect at all, or even heal the person. So if the skin is tough enough, that sort of hard pressing isn't an option.

Bro Smash = thicker skull than Wolverine's.




Here:
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
As for Freiza, that really depends on the situation. If Freiza decides to get serious, Ken would lose obviously but if Freiza toys around too much, it may not ever get to that point.

You think there's a possibility that Ken can beat Frieza.... you're delusional.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Sure he did. The metal beam, on the hit that finally hurt him, hit him in his torsoe.

Nah. Pressure points may not require penetrating the skin, but you nonetheless do have to use enough force to affect it below the skin. Ever notice how for Amiba to hit the new pressure points he discovered, he would have to dig in very deep compared to Ken? Those points hadn't already been discovered, likely for that very reason that they were too far below the surface.

Toki explained how touching a pressure point hard will destroy, but pressing it lightly may have no effect at all, or even heal the person. So if the skin is tough enough, that sort of hard pressing isn't an option.

Yeah, the last one hit him in his torsoe however, not in even in the translation I got on DVD says that he hit him in the chest.

Like you said, there are certain pressure points to hit that would have a certain affect. Also, Amiba was much weaker than Ken and really didn't have much knowledge about Hokuto Shinken. Ken knew all the pressure points he hit while Amiba was basically "guessing".

I don't remember Toki saying that but he most likely meant for people like Raoh, as Ken have touched pressure points with very little force.

Originally posted by jinzin
Bro Smash = thicker skull than Wolverine's.




Here:


You think there's a possibility that Ken can beat Frieza.... you're delusional.

Yes, a possibility. Even if it is a small one, it's still a possibility.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Yeah, the last one hit him in his torsoe however, not in even in the translation I got on DVD says that he hit him in the chest.

Like you said, there are certain pressure points to hit that would have a certain affect. Also, Amiba was much weaker than Ken and really didn't have much knowledge about Hokuto Shinken. Ken knew all the pressure points he hit while Amiba was basically "guessing".

I don't remember Toki saying that but he most likely meant for people like Raoh, as Ken have touched pressure points with very little force.



Yes, a possibility. Even if it is a small one, it's still a possibility.

Frieza can stand still and let Ken hit on him all day with no effect. This is a guy that survived a planet explosion. Ken aint doing sh** to him.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Yes, a possibility. Even if it is a small one, it's still a possibility. The fact that you believe that is out and out... INSANE...

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Yeah, the last one hit him in his torsoe however, not in even in the translation I got on DVD says that he hit him in the chest.
Ah. What pressure point does it refer to it as? My translation says "breast pressure point".

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Like you said, there are certain pressure points to hit that would have a certain affect. Also, Amiba was much weaker than Ken and really didn't have much knowledge about Hokuto Shinken. Ken knew all the pressure points he hit while Amiba was basically "guessing".
Amiba was not guessing. He knew where the power points were, they just happened to lie deeper in the body than the "traditional" power points of Hokuto Shinken. I am also not sure where you got that Amiba didn't know much about Hokuto Shinken... he wasn't very practiced, because he hadn't been using it for years, but in terms of knowing the concepts behind it I would say he was probably second only to Toki. Who else can boast that they actually discovered new power points?

Anyway, my point was that the power points actually lie beneath the skin, normally it is no problem to depress the skin to touch the power point, but for Kiba Daio it had to be a multi step process, and for Goku I doubt that Ken could ever affect a power point.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
I don't remember Toki saying that but he most likely meant for people like Raoh, as Ken have touched pressure points with very little force.
No, it was in the flashback that featured Toki talking about his discoveries in medical Hokuto Shinken. And that medical arts was based on pressing them softly, while martial arts pressed them hard.

Now obviously, Ken may have applied "little" force, but it is obvious that you still have to give some kind of forceful pressure on them, which through someone as durable as Goku, I really don't see happening.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Yes, a possibility. Even if it is a small one, it's still a possibility.
No, it's really not. Freeza's blood is purple, he shifts shape and changes form, most of his earlier forms have his body with some kind of spongy-like armor substance covering it... there is NO way this guy has human power points.

I didn't read most of this thread but even I'd say that it's a long stretch to say that HSK could affect Frieza, Buu or Cell. Saiyans, Tien, humans yeah but not Frieza. Ken is ridiculously strong and easily within the Class 100+ range but I don't see him beating Frieza unless Frieza just stood there and let him wail on him but yeah induced stupidity of a character should not equate to the other having a chance.

Originally posted by carver9
Frieza can stand still and let Ken hit on him all day with no effect. This is a guy that survived a planet explosion. Ken aint doing sh** to him.

He only survived it because of his ability to stay alive after having his body part blown away, not because he's durable.

Originally posted by jinzin
The fact that you believe that is out and out... INSANE...

Yeah? Then tell me what is your counterargument.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
He only survived it because of his ability to stay alive after having his body part blown away, not because he's durable.

Thats funny, King Cold alluded to the fact that Frieza has survived planets exploding in his face before, in his initial form... The only reason he would have been that badly damaged was because of Goku's attacks that left him sliced in two, crippled, and depleted of energy, not because he was on an exploding planet...

Originally posted by King Kandy
Ah. What pressure point does it refer to it as? My translation says "breast pressure point".

He just simply say "I hit the pressure point known as Dai Kyou."

Originally posted by King Kandy
Amiba was not guessing. He knew where the power points were, they just happened to lie deeper in the body than the "traditional" power points of Hokuto Shinken. I am also not sure where you got that Amiba didn't know much about Hokuto Shinken... he wasn't very practiced, because he hadn't been using it for years, but in terms of knowing the concepts behind it I would say he was probably second only to Toki. Who else can boast that they actually discovered new power points?

The difference is Ken and Toki already know about the pressure points beforehand. They knew what effect each one has. Amiba didn't know squat compared to them and in the end, it was Hokuto Shinken itself to proved to be his downfall.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Anyway, my point was that the power points actually lie beneath the skin, normally it is no problem to depress the skin to touch the power point, but for Kiba Daio it had to be a multi step process, and for Goku I doubt that Ken could ever affect a power point.

But like I said already, that was REAL early in the series.

Originally posted by King Kandy
No, it was in the flashback that featured Toki talking about his discoveries in medical Hokuto Shinken. And that medical arts was based on pressing them softly, while martial arts pressed them hard.

Now obviously, Ken may have applied "little" force, but it is obvious that you still have to give some kind of forceful pressure on them, which through someone as durable as Goku, I really don't see happening.

I can somewhat can. Goku may be can take some hits but I've never seen him just stand there and not even be moved by hits (at least against someone beyond human level).

Originally posted by King Kandy
No, it's really not. Freeza's blood is purple, he shifts shape and changes form, most of his earlier forms have his body with some kind of spongy-like armor substance covering it... there is NO way this guy has human power points.

He's got pressure points for sure, it's the location is what seems to be the problem. If they're not in the same location, then I can't see Ken having a chance.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Thats funny, King Cold alluded to the fact that Frieza has survived planets exploding in his face before, in his initial form... The only reason he would have been that badly damaged was because of Goku's attacks that left him sliced in two, crippled, and depleted of energy, not because he was on an exploding planet...

When did King Cold say that?

How do we know that Frieza has pressure points for sure? What about him says "I have pressure points"?

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
How do we know that Frieza has pressure points for sure? What about him says "I have pressure points"?

I don't think it's that big of a stretch to say he has pressure points, as I'm pretty sure he has a heart and all.

How do we even know if he has a heart? tbh, I wouldn't be surprised if he had three.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
I don't think it's that big of a stretch to say he has pressure points, as I'm pretty sure he has a heart and all.

But I'm afraid Kenshiro won't hit Freeza's pressure point. Freeza has a different body than human. Most likely his pressure points are completely different unlike most of the humans. Maybe Kenshiro would figure it out if Freeza gives him a chance. But if not, Kenshiro would die in an instant. Freeza is no Souther. He is much more powerful, faster, and durable while his pressure point location must be different than Souther. One finger beam and Kenshiro would meet Yuria in the afterlife.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH


Yeah? Then tell me what is your counterargument.

The fact that you think I even NEED a counterargument is a testement to you being out and out insane.

As for a counter argument I think it lies somewhere in the fact that Frieza's a casual planet buster who could tank a planet actually detonating after exhausting the majority of his power WHILE already having been diced in half quite literally.

That he's an very alien creature with the abilities of a changeling able to add mass or shrink his sctructure.

That there's no proof he even has pressure points or evidence of pressure points even existing in his body/race.

That he's literally more than 100 million times as strong as Goku was when he was a teenager who was already more durable than steel at the beginning of the series when he was a child and was ten times that by the end of Dragonball.... 100 million times THAT. And Ken's supposed to affect his durability?

That Ken is in the same department of shortcomings as he is against Goku; that he doesn't have the neceessary speed to be even a moderate threat, that he doesn't have the durability to take even a single attack if his opponent chooses to land it, and that he doesn't have the stamina or power level to even withstand the battle aura eminating off his opponent's body during the heat of battle.... Except unlike with Goku where all these are issues against Goku as a CHILD... we have to multiply these factors by over a 100 million times.

As I said, NO possibility exists for Ken to defeat Frieza and you're insane to insist otherwise.

He isn't even dreaming about beating frieza and he sure as hell ain't touching goku. Like I said before goku and frieza could stand there and let ken wail on them to no effect.

To attack someone's pressure point you need to be able to press the point itself.

If you cannot even dent the opponent's skin, then you are not hitting the pressure point.

It would be like trying to hit the pressure points of a rhino.

Originally posted by NemeBro
To attack someone's pressure point you need to be able to press the point itself.

If you cannot even dent the opponent's skin, then you are not hitting the pressure point.

It would be like trying to hit the pressure points of a rhino. - with the strength of a fly.

Originally posted by jinzin
The fact that you think I even NEED a counterargument is a testement to you being out and out insane.

As for a counter argument I think it lies somewhere in the fact that Frieza's a casual planet buster who could tank a planet actually detonating after exhausting the majority of his power WHILE already having been diced in half quite literally.

That he's an very alien creature with the abilities of a changeling able to add mass or shrink his sctructure.

That there's no proof he even has pressure points or evidence of pressure points even existing in his body/race.

That he's literally more than 100 million times as strong as Goku was when he was a teenager who was already more durable than steel at the beginning of the series when he was a child and was ten times that by the end of Dragonball.... 100 million times THAT. And Ken's supposed to affect his durability?

That Ken is in the same department of shortcomings as he is against Goku; that he doesn't have the neceessary speed to be even a moderate threat, that he doesn't have the durability to take even a single attack if his opponent chooses to land it, and that he doesn't have the stamina or power level to even withstand the battle aura eminating off his opponent's body during the heat of battle.... Except unlike with Goku where all these are issues against Goku as a CHILD... we have to multiply these factors by over a 100 million times.

As I said, NO possibility exists for Ken to defeat Frieza and you're insane to insist otherwise.

The only thing that mattered is the fact that he's an alien being and thus may have different insides (though the thought of him not having any pressure points at all is insane itself). Other than that, I don't see what's the point in bringing all that up (such as pulling out random numbers and the obvious fact that he can destroy planets). Nobody said that Ken is gonna withstand a planet explosion, which is why I said he'd lose if Frieza decides to get serious.

Originally posted by NemeBro
To attack someone's pressure point you need to be able to press the point itself.

If you cannot even dent the opponent's skin, then you are not hitting the pressure point.

It would be like trying to hit the pressure points of a rhino.

In this case, who says their skins can't be dent?

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
The only thing that mattered is the fact that he's an alien being and thus may have different insides (though the thought of him not having any pressure points at all is insane itself). Other than that, I don't see what's the point in bringing all that up (such as pulling out random numbers and the obvious fact that he can destroy planets). Nobody said that Ken is gonna withstand a planet explosion, which is why I said he'd lose if Frieza decides to get serious.



In this case, who says their skins can't be dent?

Show me ken surviving a nuclear blast because frieza was throwing them out like candy when he transformed to his final form.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
The only thing that mattered is the fact that he's an alien being and thus may have different insides (though the thought of him not having any pressure points at all is insane itself). Other than that, I don't see what's the point in bringing all that up (such as pulling out random numbers and the obvious fact that he can destroy planets). Nobody said that Ken is gonna withstand a planet explosion, which is why I said he'd lose if Frieza decides to get serious.



Again, you are without a doubt insane...

I brought all that up because those are all reasons or part of reasons as to why NO POSSIBILITY of Kenshiro beating Frieza exists. EVER....

Those are no random numbers, those are numbers that are relivant to power levels in DBZ... something you also have no concept of.

I'll give you a hint; all that bitching about DBZ supporters using ABC logic..... WELL THAT'S HOW DBZ WORKS.... in the entire show and all of the movies there were MAYBE only a handful (actually less) of people who could beat someone without resorting to having a superior power level. Power levels are relative to every single aspect of a Z fighters arsenal. Speed, strength, durability etc etc... So when you have an argument for a Z fighter who's already superior to Kenshiro with a powerlevel of a couple hundred or less (and there have been plenty here) then you really don't need another one for a character who has a powerlevel of 500,000 at casual and exceeds 100 million well before his max....

The fact that you even BEGIN to think Frieza would need to even approach "serious" to take Ken out is beyond ludicrous, I don't know whether to laugh until I'm crying or just cry due to the sheer sadness here.

Kenshiro could not take 3 nameks with powerlevels of 3,000 MINIMUM, and we've seen Frieza literally blow wind from his lips which killed every one of them. He couldn't take 1 namek at that powerlevel, Hell! He couldn't take 1 namek at half that or Piccolo at a third of that. He couldn't take King Piccolo at a few hundred....

......Freiza sitting in a chair while laughing his ass off completely annhialated an entire planet of the strongest and most feared fighters in the universe... WITH A FINGER.....

So again, you thinking Ken would be in trouble "if Frieza got serious" is so utterly retarded it barely warrants a response.


Serious? lol


no... Seriously..... GTFO.

Originally posted by jinzin
Again, you are without a doubt insane...

I brought all that up because those are all reasons or part of reasons as to why NO POSSIBILITY of Kenshiro beating Frieza exists. EVER....

Those are no random numbers, those are numbers that are relivant to power levels in DBZ... something you also have no concept of.

Then prove it then. Show this 100 million then and also show me if it works the way you say it.

Originally posted by jinzin
I'll give you a hint; all that bitching about DBZ supporters using ABC logic..... WELL THAT'S HOW DBZ WORKS.... in the entire show and all of the movies there were MAYBE only a handful (actually less) of people who could beat someone without resorting to having a superior power level. Power levels are relative to every single aspect of a Z fighters arsenal. Speed, strength, durability etc etc... So when you have an argument for a Z fighter who's already superior to Kenshiro with a powerlevel of a couple hundred or less (and there have been plenty here) then you really don't need another one for a character who has a powerlevel of 500,000 at casual and exceeds 100 million well before his max....

Wait, hold on, lets back up here a little bit. That's simply not true about it being relative to every single aspect of a Z fighter and there's some examples of that in the series itself.

Originally posted by jinzin
The fact that you even BEGIN to think Frieza would need to even approach "serious" to take Ken out is beyond ludicrous, I don't know whether to laugh until I'm crying or just cry due to the sheer sadness here.

I don't think overhyping the character is gonna convince anybody.

Originally posted by jinzin
Kenshiro could not take 3 nameks with powerlevels of 3,000 MINIMUM, and we've seen Frieza literally blow wind from his lips which killed every one of them. He couldn't take 1 namek at that powerlevel, Hell! He couldn't take 1 namek at half that or Piccolo at a third of that. He couldn't take King Piccolo at a few hundred....

You forget one thing; power levels are useless when use for other worlds/series, because not all worlds use that kind of stuff.

Originally posted by jinzin
......Freiza sitting in a chair while laughing his ass off completely annhialated an entire planet of the strongest and most feared fighters in the universe... WITH A FINGER.....

With a planet destroying blast.

Originally posted by jinzin
So again, you thinking Ken would be in trouble "if Frieza got serious" is so utterly retarded it barely warrants a response.


Serious? lol


no... Seriously..... GTFO.

No...seriously...stop crying!

Originally posted by carver9
Show me ken surviving a nuclear blast because frieza was throwing them out like candy when he transformed to his final form.

That's when he's "serious".

Nail would have easily beaten Kenshiro... in first form, Freeza, with one hand, easily stomped Nail.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Then prove it then. Show this 100 million then and also show me if it works the way you say it.

It's simple math dude. Well simple for most of us anyways.

Frieza had a power level that was over 1 million when he reached his second form and he had two more transformations before he hit his final form.
In his final form he had varying levels of 1 to 100 percent.

Simple logic? Frieza Form II (1 million)<<Frieza Form III <<<< Frieza Form IV (at 1 percent)......


This was not just stated flat out, but PROVEN when he correctly fluxed the percentages of his power accordingly to Goku's Kiao Ken.


Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Wait, hold on, lets back up here a little bit. That's simply not true about it being relative to every single aspect of a Z fighter and there's some examples of that in the series itself.

Like... When?

Fact: Goku proved it with Kaio Ken. Increasing the power level of a Z fighter increases speed, strength, durability.. etc.

Burta's specialized aspect was his "super speed" which we find is relative to Jeiss' who has a relative PL... and his super speed was a non factor against Goku when he arrived.
Same with Piccolo when he thought he could outpace Frieza in form 3.... He couldn't.

You think otherwise?
Prove it.
Because with the exception of Boss Rabbit, Guildo and a couple others no one has abilities that range outside the scope of power levels.
That's all there is to it.




Originally posted by Bro SMASH
I don't think overhyping the character is gonna convince anybody.

How is that overhyping? Everything I've stated about Frieza has been 100% FACT. He was ruler of a vast wealth of the universe, regarded as the strongest warrior in the universe by a God at the time of his peak.

I don't need to overhype the character, and no one here but you needs to be convinced of anything because we're not blinded by Kenshiro's nut sack and we're well aware that he isn't beating anybody in the Z series.



Originally posted by Bro SMASH
You forget one thing; power levels are useless when use for other worlds/series, because not all worlds use that kind of stuff.

Uh no... Power levels are just a measurement of each characters powers in the Z verse.. just because other universes don't use the same measurements does not mean what they measure doesn't exist..

As if you think that because no one in FOTNS has a scouter, somehow all the Z feats are inconsequential?

Yeah, again, you're insane... or an idiot.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
With a planet destroying blast.

That's the point genious... Frieza can do that with LESS than HALF of 1% of his power...... while SUPER CASUAL... he can CASUALLY destroy a planet with one finger.... he doesn't need to "get serious" with Ken...



Originally posted by Bro SMASH
No...seriously...stop crying! You're the only one crying here.

"power levels don't matter!"
"Stop using ABC logic"...


You're a complete joke kid.

Look you're clearly a fanboy, an insane, raging, delusional fanboy... possible super troll...

So I'll keep this simple.

DBZ characters are just WAY too far outside the scope of a person like Kenshiro. Kenshiro while powerful in his own right is simply far better suited fighting other kinds of characters. Fighting Z fighters will get him nowhere because they outstripped his abilities in the early part of the first series.

Bottem line: one wave of king piccolo's hand blew up a city like a high yield nuke. Kenshiro has no answer for an attack like that and he certainly doesn't have one that allows him to win here.

Z fighters are stronger, faster, more powerful and have quasi mysitical abilities like telepathy induced by martial arts skill and on TOP OF THAT have looney tunes-like abilities that include kicking eachother through the 4th wall.

Ken has no chance of beating Goku after the King Picollo fight and even you think differently you need to prove it because all you've done thus far is make an ass out of yourself.

Until you bring some proof to the table, I'm done here..

Idiot.

Kenshiro can beat a baby Goku.",)

Originally posted by jinzin
It's simple math dude. Well simple for most of us anyways.

Frieza had a power level that was over 1 million when he reached his second form and he had two more transformations before he hit his final form.
In his final form he had varying levels of 1 to 100 percent.

Simple logic? Frieza Form II (1 million)<<Frieza Form III <<<< Frieza Form IV (at 1 percent)......


This was not just stated flat out, but PROVEN when he correctly fluxed the percentages of his power accordingly to Goku's Kiao Ken.

Sorry but this all seem like wild guesses. If you can't tell how much stronger each form is compared to the last one, then you really got nothing to base that on.


Originally posted by jinzin
Like... When?

Fact: Goku proved it with Kaio Ken. Increasing the power level of a Z fighter increases speed, strength, durability.. etc.

Burta's specialized aspect was his "super speed" which we find is relative to Jeiss' who has a relative PL... and his super speed was a non factor against Goku when he arrived.
Same with Piccolo when he thought he could outpace Frieza in form 3.... He couldn't.

You think otherwise?
Prove it.
Because with the exception of Boss Rabbit, Guildo and a couple others no one has abilities that range outside the scope of power levels.
That's all there is to it.

An example would be Goku's USSJ forms, in which his strength increased, yet his speed decreased.

Also, I should remind you that Kaio-ken is a special technique. That doesn't mean ki always operates the way Kaio-ken does.


Originally posted by jinzin
How is that overhyping? Everything I've stated about Frieza has been 100% FACT. He was ruler of a vast wealth of the universe, regarded as the strongest warrior in the universe by a God at the time of his peak.

I don't need to overhype the character, and no one here but you needs to be convinced of anything because we're not blinded by Kenshiro's nut sack and we're well aware that he isn't beating anybody in the Z series.

No actually, some of the things you said is based on mere assumptions (like the numbers). Also, using a character's reputation doesn't mean anything in a situation like this.

Wait...he isn't beating ANYBODY in Z the series? Okay, it's obvious YOU'RE the one that's insane. Dude, he can take out some of those characters in DBZ (not at the same time). He at best would be Namek saga at least.


Originally posted by jinzin
Uh no... Power levels are just a measurement of each characters powers in the Z verse.. just because other universes don't use the same measurements does not mean what they measure doesn't exist..

As if you think that because no one in FOTNS has a scouter, somehow all the Z feats are inconsequential?

Yeah, again, you're insane... or an idiot.

You pretty much just solved your own problem. You just said "Power levels are just a measurement of each characters powers in the Z verse", which is exactly why it's pointless when talking about a non-DBZ character.

Originally posted by jinzin
That's the point genious... Frieza can do that with LESS than HALF of 1% of his power...... while SUPER CASUAL... he can CASUALLY destroy a planet with one finger.... he doesn't need to "get serious" with Ken...

Fist of all, how know that was "less than half"? Because he was in his first form? That could have taken out a huge chunk of his power. Besides, even in his last form, he still botched his attempt to destroy a planet.

Originally posted by jinzin
You're the only one crying here.

"power levels don't matter!"
"Stop using ABC logic"...


You're a complete joke kid.

You call that crying compared you whining about something over a FICTIONAL character? Give me break!

Originally posted by jinzin
Look you're clearly a fanboy, an insane, raging, delusional fanboy... possible super troll...

So I'll keep this simple.

DBZ characters are just WAY too far outside the scope of a person like Kenshiro. Kenshiro while powerful in his own right is simply far better suited fighting other kinds of characters. Fighting Z fighters will get him nowhere because they outstripped his abilities in the early part of the first series.

Bottem line: one wave of king piccolo's hand blew up a city like a high yield nuke. Kenshiro has no answer for an attack like that and he certainly doesn't have one that allows him to win here.

Z fighters are stronger, faster, more powerful and have quasi mysitical abilities like telepathy induced by martial arts skill and on TOP OF THAT have looney tunes-like abilities that include kicking eachother through the 4th wall.

Ken has no chance of beating Goku after the King Picollo fight and even you think differently you need to prove it because all you've done thus far is make an ass out of yourself.

Until you bring some proof to the table, I'm done here..

Idiot.

After throwing so many insults like that, it's clear that YOU'RE the fanboy troll here.

As for your King Piccolo thing, I've addressed this before. Kenshiro has Musou Tensei. It's not gonna hit him and in a likely case, King Piccolo would try to fight Kenshiro up close, which would prove to be his downfall if he does. This mainly due to the fact that Kenshiro is a much better fighting style (much better than pretty much anybody in the DB series).

Can't beat Goku after the King Piccolo saga? Okay, from the very next time we see Goku, tell me what you think his advantages are? You just said Kenshiro stands no chance but didn't provide any type of proof your own claim so let's see what YOU think first. Then I'll provide why I think so otherwise.

So... no proof then?

Gotcha... fanboy.


As for the rest of that nonsense... hysterical.


You can't even understand the simple mathematics behind Frieza's power level..

It's not assumption, it's math...
Frieza in form one was at 550,000 max it's a fact.
Frieza in form 2 was over a million; fact.
Frieza form 3 was considerably stronger than form 2 it's a fact.
Frieza form 4 was WAY stronger than his third form... fact.
Form 4 had a varying power level that worked in percentages... fact.

You can't understand all that: fact.

Are you a 2nd grader? Is that the problem here? Because if that's the case you shouldn't be watching a show like FOTNS...

And USSJ is the EXCEPTION to the rule.... an exception that only works when the person using that form doesn't have time to become comfortable with the large body... with time, that isn't the case as proved by Broly.

Anyways.... yeah power levels are a measurement of power.. If you don't use a scouter it doesn't all of the sudden negate a Z characters feats and you're full of shit to insist otherwise.

Prove that Ken can use intangibility and show it working on an offensive level.. Show it working on a character with super speed beyond his own.. Show me ANYTHING as to why you think he can spend time being any more than a red smear on the end of Goku or Frieza's fist.

I've already told you all of Goku's advantages... We've been over them half a dozen times now... Stop trolling you annoying little psychopath of a fanboy..

Originally posted by jinzin
So... no proof then?

Gotcha... fanboy.


As for the rest of that nonsense... hysterical.

I think it's better if you give him a decent counter argument. You won't convince him only with insults.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
I think it's better if you give him a decent counter argument. You won't convince him only with insults.

The only way an "argument" works is if both sides take into consideration what the other is saying so that they can take, and rebuttle the points at hand accordingly.

He's not doing that.

Everything that is being argued against him is met with a "nu-uh" argument and we're treated to another list of techniqes or sub-par feats from Kenshiro that have already been discussed, disputed and debunked. And that's when he's not just flat out lying.

Now when it comes to the insults, perhaps he shouldn't be insisting that others have a reading problem when he's clearly the one with a comprehension problem here.

So far, you're the only one who has come close to a legitimate argument supporting Kenshiro, but even with all the featwork you post up, that stuff is well.... sub-par compared to what Z fighters are pulling off and none of it is an answer for a wave of King Piccolo's hand.

Originally posted by jinzin
The only way an "argument" works is if both sides take into consideration what the other is saying so that they can take, and rebuttle the points at hand accordingly.

He's not doing that.

Everything that is being argued against him is met with a "nu-uh" argument and we're treated to another list of techniqes or sub-par feats from Kenshiro that have already been discussed, disputed and debunked. And that's when he's not just flat out lying.

Now when it comes to the insults, perhaps he shouldn't be insisting that others have a reading problem when he's clearly the one with a comprehension problem here.

So far, you're the only one who has come close to a legitimate argument supporting Kenshiro, but even with all the featwork you post up, that stuff is well.... sub-par compared to what Z fighters are pulling off and none of it is an answer for a wave of King Piccolo's hand.

Kiriksze doesn't think that ken can beat a Z fighter, he just posted those feats because I said that ke would lose to kid goku. if kid goku didn't go all out in the beginning, that would be the only goku ken would have a prayer at beating but the thing about it is... I don't think ken can take down the red ribbon army like kid goku did so he isn't beating kid goku either. As for the rest of your post on power levels... I agree with that. As for you comments on frieza, I agree with that as well. Only people in denial wouldn't agree with it.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Sorry but this all seem like wild guesses. If you can't tell how much stronger each form is compared to the last one, then you really got nothing to base that on.




An example would be Goku's USSJ forms, in which his strength increased, yet his speed decreased.

Also, I should remind you that Kaio-ken is a special technique. That doesn't mean ki always operates the way Kaio-ken does.




No actually, some of the things you said is based on mere assumptions (like the numbers). Also, using a character's reputation doesn't mean anything in a situation like this.

Wait...he isn't beating ANYBODY in Z the series? Okay, it's obvious YOU'RE the one that's insane. Dude, he can take out some of those characters in DBZ (not at the same time). He at best would be Namek saga at least.




You pretty much just solved your own problem. You just said "Power levels are just a measurement of each characters powers in the Z verse", which is exactly why it's pointless when talking about a non-DBZ character.



Fist of all, how know that was "less than half"? Because he was in his first form? That could have taken out a huge chunk of his power. Besides, even in his last form, he still botched his attempt to destroy a planet.



You call that crying compared you whining about something over a FICTIONAL character? Give me break!

What jinzin is trying to tell you is that frieza at final form was fighting goku at 1% of his true power and was destroying him. Well final form frieza power level was far greater than his first form. Final form frieza power level during the time he used 1% of his power was in the millions whereas first form frieza was only 550k and even during that pale comparison of power he still destroyed the planet with one finger and did it with ease and again, this frieza power level was far less than the frieza that used only 1% of his true power against goku.

As for frieza not being able to destroy planet namek, go back and read or listen to what he said after escaping the spirit bomb (I used up all of my power escaping that blast) then let's not even include the beat down that he got from super saiyan goku goku before trying to blow the planet up.

Frieza was depleted and admitted that he was depleted of his power.

As for your excuse of trying to debate that the higher your power level are the more stronger, faster, and durable you are... your argument failed. Gohun even thought that with that extra power goku had, he would be able to beat cell... goku explained why that wouldn't work and powerlevel had nothing to do with it. He was the size of hulk and goku stated that it would be hard to maneaver around at that size. People tend to use that as an argument to debunk the power level story that resides with dbz but even then they were trying to tell us that the the higher the power level the more you have a chance at beating a character because gohun a thought that goku could beat cell and piccolo and tien thought that trunks could beat cell also until the weakness of that amp was revealed.