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Superman vs the entire planet Earth.

An entirely unpopulated Earth, that he's trying to shatter with his bare hands.

Can he do it with five punches or less?

Can he do it at all?

Originally posted by cdtm
Superman vs the entire planet Earth.

An entirely unpopulated Earth, that he's trying to shatter with his bare hands.

Can he do it with five punches or less?

Can he do it at all?

If he really wants to, i don't see why not.

With just 5 punches, I don't believe so, but it would also depend on where he punched (punching near a natural fault line would garner best results, but punching the ground in, say, the Sahara Desert, would lessen the effect).

If he flew into the planet at top speed and rammed it a few times I believe he could destroy the planet. He generates more force propelling his entire body as a battering ram than he does simply punching.

no way in hell

Originally posted by illadelph12
With just 5 punches, I don't believe so, but it would also depend on where he punched (punching near a natural fault line would garner best results, but punching the ground in, say, the Sahara Desert, would lessen the effect).

If he flew into the planet at top speed and rammed it a few times I believe he could destroy the planet. He generates more force propelling his entire body as a battering ram than he does simply punching.
I really don't see how location would matter given the kind of force we're talking here.

A little sand isn't going to matter, it simply isn't enough to absorb that much kinetic energy.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I really don't see how location would matter given the kind of force we're talking here.

A little sand isn't going to matter, it simply isn't enough to absorb that much kinetic energy. its the fact that the point of force would be too small...doesn't matter how much force is applied

superman cannot shatter the planet in 5 punches of less.

Originally posted by Starscream M
its the fact that the point of force would be too small...doesn't matter how much force is applied

I don't think physics work the way you think they do.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I don't think physics work the way you think they do. um yes they do

if superman goes full force at earth....he'll go right through it, creating a hole so small relative to the planet

think about an analogy

take a watermelon, and then you shoot a single particle of sand (superman would prob be much smaller in relation) through that watermelon. it doesn't matter how hard you shoot that sand, at best, the send travels through the watermelon...but because of its small surface area, it can't shatter the watermelon.

the question is has he ever destroyed a planet without flyin through it or bein tied to it?

Originally posted by Starscream M
um yes they do

if superman goes full force at earth....he'll go right through it, creating a hole so small relative to the planet

think about an analogy

take a watermelon, and then you shoot a single particle of sand (superman would prob be much smaller in relation) through that watermelon. it doesn't matter how hard you shoot that sand, at best, the send travels through the watermelon...but because of its small surface area, it can't shatter the watermelon.

except his powers don't work that way.

masterbruce doesn't read comics, give him a break and stop being so condescending.

Give him a sundip for a bit or total bloodlusted state but just normally nah.

In five punches...no....but he could eventually.

What's his greatest strength based feats?

Unamped, of course.

Superman has feats that go beyond 50 Earth weights of force. It takes less than 1 Earth weight of force to break the Earth.

Originally posted by h1a8
Superman has feats that go beyond 50 Earth weights of force. It takes less than 1 Earth weight of force to break the Earth.

So what are the feats?

Originally posted by Lunacyde
In five punches...no....but he could eventually.


Agreed

Originally posted by Starscream M
um yes they do

if superman goes full force at earth....he'll go right through it, creating a hole so small relative to the planet

think about an analogy

take a watermelon, and then you shoot a single particle of sand (superman would prob be much smaller in relation) through that watermelon. it doesn't matter how hard you shoot that sand, at best, the send travels through the watermelon...but because of its small surface area, it can't shatter the watermelon.
Again you fail to grasp physics. Whether it's comic book or RL physics. Superman split a moon with one pass, according to your understanding of physics that wouldn't be possible yet it happened.

Also try firing a particle of sand at a watermelon, with the sand going at relativistic speeds. Do you really think the watermelon will survive then?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Again you fail to grasp physics. Whether it's comic book or RL physics. Superman split a moon with one pass, according to your understanding of physics that wouldn't be possible yet it happened.

Also try firing a particle of sand at a watermelon, with the sand going at relativistic speeds. Do you really think the watermelon will survive then?


But the earth is dynamic in ways that a watermelon isn't. It has gravity, and a magnetic field (yes I know everything has gravity to a certain point), The moon is also a lot smaller that earth. Anyways you're right, arguing physics and attempting to make sense of comics with proven scientific facts is bad mojo.

The watermelon would likely explode at relativistic speeds.

With just five punches. No. But more time or flying at or through earth, he'll destroy it.

Originally posted by Bentley
The watermelon would likely explode at relativistic speeds.

Mass times velocity.. yep.

Originally posted by Bentley
The watermelon would likely explode at relativistic speeds.
There are few things that could survive a collision with an object traveling at relativistic speeds.

If He really wants to

He can

Shatters reality with the SHOCKWAVE of his punches?

Even if people say that time and reality was weakened at the time I did not see anyone else doing it and they did throw a lot of punches during that time.

That plus the moon spliting

The planetoid spliting in Golden Golem's body

The Shadow Moon

and the fact that He almos took the moon out of it's orbit while poisoned by kryptonite.

Yes, If he wants he can.

Plus there is a retcon feat in which He states that he can deliver a blow that would split a diamond palnet in half.

Yes He can

superman is not splitting a diamond planet in half....

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
superman is not splitting a diamond planet in half....
I'm assuming that's a Pre-Crisis or SA Superman feat.

Here is the retcon evidence mentioned in modern era Action Comics 650

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/Pre-crisis%20retcon/RETCON.jpg

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/Pre-crisis%20retcon/RETCON2.jpg

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/Pre-crisis%20retcon/RETCON3.jpg

The events happened in JLA V1 96-97-98, 121, 183-184-185

And READ CAREFULLY MY PREVIOUS POST:

"Plus there is a retcon feat in which He states that he can deliver a blow that would split a diamond palnet in half"

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/Pre-crisis%20retcon/SPLITADIAMONDPLANETINTWO.jpg

Not that He needs this scan because "shockwaves shatter reality" but just for reference.

Originally posted by Bentley
The watermelon would likely explode at relativistic speeds.
I doubt it. At relativistic speeds the sand should just go right through the watermelon as if it was air. More likely than not just leaving a small sand-sized hole. It would do more damage if it was actually slower, I think.

Given time, he can destroy one but he isn't doing it in five punches.

He certainly can destroy a planet the size of the earth, but probably not in five punches. His fans go crazy with their extrapolations

Originally posted by h1a8
Superman has feats that go beyond 50 Earth weights of force. It takes less than 1 Earth weight of force to break the Earth. he probably doesnt and it most certainly does not take an earth weight of force to 'break' it. this is absurd, if you apply 1 kg of force to 1 kg of rock or steel can you break it?

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
superman is not splitting a diamond planet in half....
Actually splitting a diamond planet would be easier than a regular planet because diamonds while hard are also brittle. It would just be a matter of hitting it at exactly the right place.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Actually splitting a diamond planet would be easier than a regular planet because diamonds while hard are also brittle. It would just be a matter of hitting it at exactly the right place.

That and He also has stated on panel that He can shatter planets.

Not that He needs to state it, because We have seen it.

Originally posted by biensalsa
Here is the retcon evidence mentioned in modern era Action Comics 650

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/Pre-crisis%20retcon/RETCON.jpg

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/Pre-crisis%20retcon/RETCON2.jpg

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/Pre-crisis%20retcon/RETCON3.jpg

The events happened in JLA V1 96-97-98, 121, 183-184-185

And READ CAREFULLY MY PREVIOUS POST:

"Plus there is a retcon feat in which He states that he can deliver a blow that would split a diamond palnet in half"

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/Pre-crisis%20retcon/SPLITADIAMONDPLANETINTWO.jpg

Not that He needs this scan because "shockwaves shatter reality" but just for reference.
I didn't see them mentioning his being able to split a dimond planet in the supposed recton. See just because a Pre Crisis story is mentioned in a Post Crisis comic, it doesn'tr make the feats in the original comic applicable to the current characters because the characters were changed as of COIE. They were referencing Pre Crisis story's even while post COIE DC universe was being established, it just means that something like the events on Earth 1 happened in the merged universe because Earth 1 was the "base" they used to build it.

In order for Pre Crisis feat to be applicable to a Post Crisis character the feat itself needs to be mentioned IMO...

Originally posted by 753
he probably doesnt and it most certainly does not take an earth weight of force to 'break' it. this is absurd, if you apply 1 kg of force to 1 kg of rock or steel can you break it?
Well to be fair here the Earth isn't exactly analogous to a lump of iron, it's much less consistent than that.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Well to be fair here the Earth isn't exactly analogous to a lump of iron, it's much less consistent than that. doesn't matter, his theory is wrong just the same as even the least dense adn durable portions would require more force than their own weight to be destroyed. Iron does makes up most of the mantle and core that represent most of the earth's mass.

Originally posted by 753
doesn't matter, his theory is wrong just the same
No argument there, its just your analogy wasn't the best.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I didn't see them mentioning his being able to split a dimond planet in the supposed recton. See just because a Pre Crisis story is mentioned in a Post Crisis comic, it doesn'tr make the feats in the original comic applicable to the current characters because the characters were changed as of COIE. They were referencing Pre Crisis story's even while post COIE DC universe was being established, it just means that something like the events on Earth 1 happened in the merged universe because Earth 1 was the "base" they used to build it.

In order for Pre Crisis feat to be applicable to a Post Crisis character the feat itself needs to be mentioned IMO...

The line between PC and modern are really blury now

There are scans stating that Modern Superman is the same Superman of earth 1

Originally posted by 753
doesn't matter, his theory is wrong just the same as even the least dense adn durable portions would require more force than their own weight to be destroyed. Iron does makes up most of the mantle and core that represent most of the earth's mass.

This is the way "earth" will behave according to comic science

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/er.jpg

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/er2.jpg

Originally posted by biensalsa
The line between PC and modern are really blury now

There are scans stating that Modern Superman is the same Superman of earth 1
That's because modern Superman's roots ARE from Earth 1. He was the same Superman immediately following COIE as well, but he was still going through a character revamp at the time. What's more, the scans you posted mentioning the Pre Crisis adventure look like they happen right around/after COIE? Do you happen to know when they're from in relation to that event?

Originally posted by -Pr-
If he really wants to, i don't see why not.

its basically the same as the tootie rolls comerical.

anyways he one shots it

Superman punched open Darkseid's singularity that was cracking time and space across the multiverse. lol.

Originally posted by darthgoober
That's because modern Superman's roots ARE from Earth 1. He was the same Superman immediately following COIE as well, but he was still going through a character revamp at the time. What's more, the scans you posted mentioning the Pre Crisis adventure look like they happen right around/after COIE? Do you happen to know when they're from in relation to that event?

They happened before COEI in this Superman timeline

Also remember that timelines were adjusted after final crisis and the Byrne revamp does not count anymore.

Byrne said there was no Superboy, now DC says there was a superboy, so byrne revamp "disapeared" on final crisis

Originally posted by Juntai
Superman punched open Darkseid's singularity that was cracking time and space across the multiverse. lol.

That too

Originally posted by biensalsa
They happened before COEI in this Superman timeline

Also remember that timelines were adjusted after final crisis and the Byrne revamp does not count anymore.

Byrne said there was no Superboy, now DC says there was a superboy, so byrne revamp "disapeared" on final crisis

But Matrix Supergirl also came from Byrne, so not all of his run was retconned.

And while he technically was Superboy, wasn't it more like the television show Smallville's Superboy? E.g., he had the powers, but wasn't actually wearing a costume?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I really don't see how location would matter given the kind of force we're talking here.

A little sand isn't going to matter, it simply isn't enough to absorb that much kinetic energy.

You may want to think about it again. It's not just "a little sand". It would diffuse the force of the first few punches as he'd be punching tons of free flowing grains of sand rather than the actual planets crust. It would act as a shock absorber to his initial blows. Unless you also think Superman can punch the surface of the ocean and cause the ocean floor to crack without actually making contact with it directly.

Hulk would it in one punch though

does all five punches have to be in the same spot?

I don't recall the actual issue biensalsa is talking about, but if superman actually damaged/shattered the diamond planet in the story and it was referenced post crisis, then it should stand...

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't recall the actual issue biensalsa is talking about, but if superman actually damaged/shattered the diamond planet in the story and it was referenced post crisis, then it should stand... He just says his blow could have split a diamond planet in two, it actually doesn't even affect the thing he's chopping at and there is no diamond planet in the story. It's just hyperbole.

Originally posted by 753
He just says his blow could have split a diamond planet in two, it actually doesn't even affect the thing he's chopping at and there is no diamond planet in the story. It's just hyperbole.

There's a difference between it being hyperbole and it being allowed to stand, though.

Anything said during the fight isn't usable anyways...

hence my point...

Originally posted by 753
hence my point...

I disagree that it's hyperbole, though.

Originally posted by 753
He just says his blow could have split a diamond planet in two, it actually doesn't even affect the thing he's chopping at and there is no diamond planet in the story. It's just hyperbole.

Are you saying that in a PC comic, YOU DOUBT PC SUPERMAN CAN SPLIT A DIAMON PLANET IN 2 WITH A SINGLE BLOW? angel_not

Originally posted by biensalsa
Are you saying that in a PC comic, YOU DOUBT PC SUPERMAN CAN SPLIT A DIAMON PLANET IN 2 WITH A SINGLE BLOW? angel_not Pre crisis SM could do it, but the statement itself is still hyperbole and if it is pre crisis than it's unusable for current SM. Also, declarations aren't feats.

Originally posted by cdtm
But Matrix Supergirl also came from Byrne, so not all of his run was retconned.

And while he technically was Superboy, wasn't it more like the television show Smallville's Superboy? E.g., he had the powers, but wasn't actually wearing a costume?

That is why I say the line between PC SUPERMAN and MODERN SUPERMAN IS REALLY BLURY.

Superman is semi retcon, because all of his adventures with the JLA are retcon, but his adventures on his own tittle only a few have been retcon.

and About Supergirl. PLEASE DO NOT GO THERE, BECAUSE IS A BIG MESS

Here is some info on Matrix Supergirl:

"Post-Infinite Crisis, the Matrix Supergirl has been seen in a scene showing the events from Zero Hour in 52 in the History of the DC Universe back-ups by Dan Jurgens. According to an interview with Newsarama, following the events of Infinite Crisis, Dan Didio stated that the Matrix Supergirl was wiped from existence However, Geoff Johns later stated, "As for this...huh? Linda Danvers hasn't been retconned out at all." The question of the cannonicity and fate of both Matrix and Linda Danvers was a subject of debate for several years until in 2008 when Linda Danvers was used in the Reign in Hell mini-series. However, the future of Matrix remains uncertain. Her origin may be in flux due to the events of Infinite Crisis and the multiversal instability hinted at in Booster Gold, but her existence has been confirmed at least."

Originally posted by 753
Pre crisis SM could do it, but the statement itself is still hyperbole and if it is pre crisis than it's unusable for current SM. Also, declarations aren't feats.

This coming from the guy who showed me a statement saying that Silver surfer cannot be harmed with fire, electricity and something else? Which by the way WAS OLDER than my scan. (actually I don't remember if it was you)

And why is unusuable if it is a retcon event?, just because you say so?

I see mod aprovingt the feat, so I'll go wit him

Originally posted by biensalsa
This coming from the guy who showed me a statement saying that Silver surfer cannot be harmed with fire, electricity and something else? Which by the way WAS OLDER than my scan.

And My scan has been retcon.

GOT IT god, your trolling is boring. I never showed you any such scan and you've quickly become a legend for producing the most retarded theories on this site's history. You're likely refering to Galactus' description of the SS's power which is a literal description of the conditions he can survive in deep space, not an embelishing literary device. Even then, the description alone wouldn't prove anything, but actually we've seen what the SS can survive on his own, including ions.

Your scan has been retconned into what? Current SM is nowhere close to pre-crisis levels and transfering hyperbole of the latter to the former is beyond pathetic.

By the way, you should read thanos imperative four so you can shut up about SS's board being as durable as he is.

Originally posted by 753
He just says his blow could have split a diamond planet in two, it actually doesn't even affect the thing he's chopping at and there is no diamond planet in the story. It's just hyperbole.

Isn't the main argument for the UN being a multiverse killer comments from Reed during the Abraxis saga?

Why is that accepted as fact, yet Superman claiming he's capable of breaking a diamond planet considered hyperbole?

Are we using tactile kinesis based strength. If so the issue of him punching through the planet becomes moot. He stops the motion of the earth with a punch the planet implodes then explodes from the sudden deceleration.

Originally posted by 753
god, your trolling is boring. I never showed you any such scan and you've quickly become a legend for producing the most retarded theories on this site's history. You're likely refering to Galactus' description of the SS's power which is a literal description of the conditions he can survive in deep space, not an embelishing literary device. Even then, the description alone wouldn't prove anything, but actually we've seen what the SS can survive on his own, including ions.

Your scan has been retconned into what? Current SM is nowhere close to pre-crisis levels and transfering hyperbole of the latter to the former is beyond pathetic.

By the way, you should read thanos imperative four so you can shut up about SS's board being as durable as he is.

Haha, somebody did not like the dose of reality, well I know a lot of people did not like that at all.

spliting a diamond planet in half is probably a low end feat for PC SUPERMAN, Now IF I remember correctly Current Superman is not as strong as PC Superman, but HE HAS FACED characters at the same level of strength.

While for a PC character this is a low end to a mid end feat for current Superman this will be a high end feat.

So yes I understand current Superman is not near PC level of strength, but splitting a diamond planet in half is NOT A HIGH END FEAT for a PC Superman. He probably can do that with a sneeze.

So yes the retcon feat stays, no matter what you say

Originally posted by cdtm
Isn't the main argument for the UN being a multiverse killer comments from Reed during the Abraxis saga?

Why is that accepted as fact, yet Superman claiming he's capable of breaking a diamond planet considered hyperbole?

EXACTLY MY POINT. Only Marvel feats and statements are not Hyperboles

Thanks cdmt

Originally posted by cdtm
Isn't the main argument for the UN being a multiverse killer comments from Reed during the Abraxis saga?

Why is that accepted as fact, yet Superman claiming he's capable of breaking a diamond planet considered hyperbole? The UN has other evidence in its favour. Furhtermore, the difference is that a literal scientific description of events are not the same as an embelishing literary device. I never doubted PC SM could shatter a diamond planet, that doesn't make the statement about that blow itself necessarily true. I interpreted it as hyperbole because it's clearly designed to embelish the story and has an over the top, engranding effect. Do you see any shockwaves forming after the blow? A planet crusing chop that flash doesn't even feel? It doesnt even make noise. You could chalk it up to a basic disregard for physics that was even more prevalent back then, or you could see it as an exagerating description to show how tough the gun was and how surprising it was that it didn't shatter for the sake of the story.

This is the right answer: Originally posted by -Pr-
If he really wants to, i don't see why not. This is a wrong answer: Originally posted by biensalsa
Plus there is a retcon feat in which He states that he can deliver a blow that would split a diamond palnet in half.

Yes He can Taking the following pre-Crisis scan: http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/Pre-crisis%20retcon/SPLITADIAMONDPLANETINTWO.jpg and acting like every event/statement was perfectly replicated/transplanted onto the new post-Crisis history and pretending that PC Superman's statement = legitimate on-panel feat is phail. Serial. Phail. Originally posted by cdtm
Isn't the main argument for the UN being a multiverse killer comments from Reed during the Abraxis saga?

Why is that accepted as fact, yet Superman claiming he's capable of breaking a diamond planet considered hyperbole? Because it did actually destroy the Marvel Multiverse? On-panel?

What does PC Superman have to do with Superman? Even granting your projection... it's not like there was a PC Reed shooting a PC UN at a PC Abraxas which was erased from history in the biggest storyline Marvel has ever done... and then was un-retconned back in by a vague reference to the event.

Cheerleading squad arriving?

Point is that if He wants, HE CAN. Plain and simple

Originally posted by biensalsa
Cheerleading squad arriving? Wait... I'm supposedly the cheer-leading squad in this situation? Says the guy who argues Superman karate chops diamond planets in half? Originally posted by biensalsa
Point is that if He wants, HE CAN. Plain and simple Profile worthy, right here.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Because it did actually destroy the Marvel Multiverse? On-panel?

In past debates on the subject, it wasn't as cut and dry as you're claiming.. Even Marvels webpage used the singular word "universe" for what was actually reset.



Throwing that example out, is there enough evidence for him being able to destroy an Earth sized planet?

Well, you can argue that the UN has the power to destroy multiversal powers even if it hadn't destroyed the universes themselves.

YAWN!!!

I better say nothing, because someone can get upset and star insulting in here and seriously I don't want this forum closed

confident that he can

Originally posted by King Kandy
I doubt it. At relativistic speeds the sand should just go right through the watermelon as if it was air. More likely than not just leaving a small sand-sized hole. It would do more damage if it was actually slower, I think.

Interesting angle/point, and I agree. I think we have to look at the asteroid/comet that struck the earth, which led to the extinction (in part or whole is not debatable here) of the dinosaurs as a reference. That would do more damage, than a Supes punch because of its large surface area, yet failed to even reach the mantle.

I think Superman would simply just fly through the Earth living it well in tact, with little or no damage. Sure lava would flow and spill from those entry and exit points, but that's it. Doing this repeatedly, then it would turn into swiss cheese. Now zigzaggin through the earth? Now we have something, I believe.

Punching the earth, IMO, would simply not work, despite the punch containing planet busting capabilities, if that makes sense.

In DC comics, they are subject to write Supes as being capable of virtually anything since he's their golden boy; especially strength wise...

So that said, in a DC Comic (where logic and reason have no meaning...unless they are being used as a plot device to help Supes or Batman defeat one of his foes or get out of a bad situation...lol) Supes can definitely shatter a planet in 5 punches...


But if logic and reason are a factor, then no way in hell is Supes going to accomplish this feat; a previous poster is correct...the planet is infinitely bigger than he is and his point of impact will be far, far, far too small.

Something as small as he relative to the Earth, even if backed by infinite power, would not shatter the Earth; he'd simply make a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny hole leading directly from his point of impact to the other side of the planet...leaving the planet itself fully infact (minus the hole of course).

In short:

No, it would take more than 5 punches.

Originally posted by Starscream M
um yes they do

if superman goes full force at earth....he'll go right through it, creating a hole so small relative to the planet

think about an analogy

take a watermelon, and then you shoot a single particle of sand (superman would prob be much smaller in relation) through that watermelon. it doesn't matter how hard you shoot that sand, at best, the send travels through the watermelon...but because of its small surface area, it can't shatter the watermelon.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/killplanet.jpg
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/killplanet2.jpg
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/killplanet3.jpg
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/killplanet4.jpg

I honestly don't see how that was a serious argument, as comic books do whatever the f*ck they feel like doing, physically impossible or not. That goes for Delph and all the others hilariously trying to use physics here.

Anyway, in regards to this thread, the answer is yes.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
In DC comics, they are subject to write Supes as being capable of virtually anything since he's their golden boy; especially strength wise...

So that said, in a DC Comic (where logic and reason have no meaning...unless they are being used as a plot device to help Supes or Batman defeat one of his foes or get out of a bad situation...lol) Supes can definitely shatter a planet in 5 punches...


But if logic and reason are a factor, then no way in hell is Supes going to accomplish this feat; a previous poster is correct...the planet is infinitely bigger than he is and his point of impact will be far, far, far too small.

Something as small as he relative to the Earth, even if backed by infinite power, would not shatter the Earth; he'd simply make a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny hole leading directly from his point of impact to the other side of the planet...leaving the planet itself fully infact (minus the hole of course). Only where his fist met would it be a small area, the transference of energy trying to disperse however, would be a different story. And this is a massive amount. It would go absolutely nothing like you just claimed here. Just pop a hole directly out of the other side? What physics are you using? Popeye cartoons?

Also I think Superman packs far and away more force than a typical meteor falling to Earth.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
In DC comics, they are subject to write Supes as being capable of virtually anything since he's their golden boy; especially strength wise...

So that said, in a DC Comic (where logic and reason have no meaning...unless they are being used as a plot device to help Supes or Batman defeat one of his foes or get out of a bad situation...lol) Supes can definitely shatter a planet in 5 punches...


But if logic and reason are a factor, then no way in hell is Supes going to accomplish this feat; a previous poster is correct...the planet is infinitely bigger than he is and his point of impact will be far, far, far too small.

Something as small as he relative to the Earth, even if backed by infinite power, would not shatter the Earth; he'd simply make a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny hole leading directly from his point of impact to the other side of the planet...leaving the planet itself fully infact (minus the hole of course).

Wrong!

I am guessing you have never seen Blood Sport.
Frank Deux was able to crush the bottom brick by hitting the top brick. If Van Damm can do it then Superman can definitely do it.

Also, if there is no time limit, cant he just punch it once and let it fall apart can come back later to punch it.

Please consider this. We are all in agreement that he could at the very least punch a whole threw the planet in a single blow. What would stop him from then flying into the middle of the Earth and punch from there. That would displace more matter since it the Earth is all compacted and centered at the Core?

Three things:

Van Damme reference = win,

Superman isn't busting the Earth in less than 5 punches,

and

Pig's a jive ass turkey.

That is all.

Originally posted by -Pr-
It depends. For example, we know that Superman fought Mongul in the Alan Moore issue, and we know that they fought because it's been referenced post crisis. To that end, we would use the actual fight as the basis for what happened.

It really depends.
Why would we use the old version of the fight when damn near everything about about the DC universe(including Supes's overpower and history) was changed as of COIE? I mean every superhero has a truckload of off panel feats but we don't go looking for versions of them from alternate universes to fill in the gaps on how the off panel feat might have went down.

Feats that are specifically mentioned are obviously a different matter, but DC referencing old events rather than rewriting taking the time to rewrite the entire story just doesn't cut it IMO.

Think about it like this, we all know there's a running debate on whether or not Thanos the End is canon right? Well let's suppose for a second that there were no arguement because Marvel went out of there way to make it clear that while something similar to the End went down in the 616 universe went down as a whole the arc doesn't really apply to 616 Thanos. Now let's jump forward with Marvel maintaining the same policy on the arc for 10 or 15 years, if Thanos mentions that he fought Eternity and Infinity back when he had the HOTU does that mean that we should just assume that the fight went down exactly as was depicted in The End since that's all we have to go off of?

Originally posted by -Pr-
it wouldn't matter, because John Byrne Superman had some crazy feats as it was, and he only got stronger after that. If he had actually shattered it/damaged it, it would.
Now pr, I'm pretty sure we both know that Byrne's Supes was nowhere near planet shattering strength, dimond or not. And Supes being upgraded during and after the 90's doesn't mean that past instances of Hyperbole and PIS from earlier years should now be considered valid. Thats be like pointing to Spidey beating Firelord as a valid feat if Marvel gives him the Uni Power again. Spidey being powerful enough to powerful enough to pull off the feat after an upgrade doesn't make his previous victory any less BS. And I know that's an extreme example, but I didn't want to spend a lot of time thinking of something on a smaller scale.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I didn't read the issue, so I can't say for certain, though i was talking about Post Crisis.
I gotta disagree then. I don't doubt that current Supes could destroy a planet, but Supes from 1990... no freakin way.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Why would we use the old version of the fight when damn near everything about about the DC universe(including Supes's overpower and history) was changed as of COIE? I mean every superhero has a truckload of off panel feats but we don't go looking for versions of them from alternate universes to fill in the gaps on how the off panel feat might have went down.

Feats that are specifically mentioned are obviously a different matter, but DC referencing old events rather than rewriting taking the time to rewrite the entire story just doesn't cut it IMO.

Think about it like this, we all know there's a running debate on whether or not Thanos the End is canon right? Well let's suppose for a second that there were no arguement because Marvel went out of there way to make it clear that while something similar to the End went down in the 616 universe went down as a whole the arc doesn't really apply to 616 Thanos. Now let's jump forward with Marvel maintaining the same policy on the arc for 10 or 15 years, if Thanos mentions that he fought Eternity and Infinity back when he had the HOTU does that mean that we should just assume that the fight went down exactly as was depicted in The End since that's all we have to go off of?


Now pr, I'm pretty sure we both know that Byrne's Supes was nowhere near planet shattering strength, dimond or not. And Supes being upgraded during and after the 90's doesn't mean that past instances of Hyperbole and PIS from earlier years should now be considered valid. Thats be like pointing to Spidey beating Firelord as a valid feat if Marvel gives him the Uni Power again. Spidey being powerful enough to powerful enough to pull off the feat after an upgrade doesn't make his previous victory any less BS. And I know that's an extreme example, but I didn't want to spend a lot of time thinking of something on a smaller scale.


I gotta disagree then. I don't doubt that current Supes could destroy a planet, but Supes from 1990... no freakin way. In a few of the current cases it actually references the issue numbers, such as when JLA and the Legion fought Mordru back in the 70's was referenced in a comic a bit ago, and it said the exact issue numbers. So it's not 'something like this' happened, these actual pre-crisis stories happened.

In the Mongul case, they put the Alan Moore Mongul story into a Superman"Giant Sized Special", which they did for a bunch of characters following Crisis.

It's actually the de-powering that didn't happen, rather than the stories -- Byrnes or the Pre-Crisis, they were just always that strong, give or take.

I can't recall the issue, but there was one that came out in say 1999 or so, and it referenced the Death of Superman and flashbacked to the fight, and those characters were being depicted as the current levels would have been, not what Superman was written like pre-death or in that story. So the power-scaling wasn't even a new concept by the time of the newer Crisis' of the 'depowered' material.

^ Taking your account with all full faith, that only proves that retcon scaling actually exists. And retcon scaling's nature is to make it more consistent with present portrayals. This only further proves darthgoober's point. And trying to project the highest levels of ability is transparent wishfulness.

And for whatever reason, people continue to be too polite to point out that even right before the Crisis, powers were scaled back. HARD. Anybody who has read DC comics right before the Crisis knows that. Pretending that Alan Moore's Superman from For The Man Who Has Everything would have blown away galaxies if he accidentally sneezed during the fight is either lazy, stupid or trying to rewrite history in the exact opposite direction that the DC editors moved.

Nobody argues that Superman didn't fought Mongul Sr. Arguing that his fight with Mongul Sr. involved galaxy-shattering punches is idiotic.

Recently I was reading a John Byrne interview about The Man of Steel. I do not remember exactly where it was. But I remember He said something along the lines of wanting to make Superman to work harder to defeat his enemies. He did not mentioned depowerment per say, he just said "let's make the man of steel work a little bit more"

DC has stayed with the same policy and nothing has changed, but you still see Superman pulling upper feats.

Byrne era Superman also had some upper level feats.

Now current Superman at his power level, you can say he is LOW PC power level. So He can defitnetlly do it.

And actually most feats that are coming out for retcon stories are not that impresive and under the power levels of Current Superman.

Breaking a planet under 5 punches is something Current Superman can do. under the LAWS of comics, because I saw a guy using real laws on a fantasy world a few post back

one punch

It really is an interesting topic. It's a nice brain teaser. But, I will say that the Van Damne reference for bloodsport is not a good example. I could be wrong, but hear me out: To be equivalent, there would need to be a stack of bricks as high as the diameter of the earth, that would also contain the mass and sphere shape of the earth. In other words, think of a planetary sphere made up of bricks. No matter how much force is applied, I don't think he's doing more than creating a large crater. Now, that's just me. Again, I don't profess to be a science professor or geologist.

Originally posted by Stunner2xx
What would stop him from then flying into the middle of the Earth and punch from there. That would displace more matter since it the Earth is all compacted and centered at the Core?

Now this is very interesting. I Imagine that it could (not saying would) cause massive tsunamis and earthquakes at the crust. However, one thing to consider perhaps is whether or not the force would be absorbed by the mantle which is molten?

no one had anything to say about my punching earth from within the core comment? Doh!

Ok , what is current SM hifhest punching feat that would sugest he can destroy the earth in five? No more pre-crisis bullshit please, people.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Taking your account with all full faith, that only proves that retcon scaling actually exists. And retcon scaling's nature is to make it more consistent with present portrayals. This only further proves darthgoober's point. And trying to project the highest levels of ability is transparent wishfulness.

And for whatever reason, people continue to be too polite to point out that even right before the Crisis, powers were scaled back. HARD. Anybody who has read DC comics right before the Crisis knows that. Pretending that Alan Moore's Superman from For The Man Who Has Everything would have blown away galaxies if he accidentally sneezed during the fight is either lazy, stupid or trying to rewrite history in the exact opposite direction that the DC editors moved.

Nobody argues that Superman didn't fought Mongul Sr. Arguing that his fight with Mongul Sr. involved galaxy-shattering punches is idiotic.
Or maybe the Fortress of Solitude is really, really durable.

sam

Originally posted by Stunner2xx
no one had anything to say about my punching earth from within the core comment? Doh!

I did Stunner. You must have missed my response.

yeah sorry it wasn't there when i was posting. =)

@ Goober: I was gonna reply, but Juntai said everything i would have said.

i am siding with dumbgo about ppl using power scaling to build up a character in vs forums.

one character fighting another in the past with vastly different strength scale then present should not be used to to build a character to current lvl of strength...

its like ppl using current depowered jugg to show how some one vastly weaker can fight a powered up version of jugg leaving history and context out the window.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Taking your account with all full faith, that only proves that retcon scaling actually exists. And retcon scaling's nature is to make it more consistent with present portrayals. This only further proves darthgoober's point. And trying to project the highest levels of ability is transparent wishfulness.

And for whatever reason, people continue to be too polite to point out that even right before the Crisis, powers were scaled back. HARD. Anybody who has read DC comics right before the Crisis knows that. Pretending that Alan Moore's Superman from For The Man Who Has Everything would have blown away galaxies if he accidentally sneezed during the fight is either lazy, stupid or trying to rewrite history in the exact opposite direction that the DC editors moved.

Nobody argues that Superman didn't fought Mongul Sr. Arguing that his fight with Mongul Sr. involved galaxy-shattering punches is idiotic. Of course, however Marvel moved in the same direction. Which is why it's laughable when 60's 70's and even some 80's feats are used to support the strength of say . . Thor, or Hulk, when it's been quite clear they aren't written like that -currently-. And it's not even a question of these events having actually transpired once upon a time, because of course, they did, however they are no more canon to the characters -- outside of reference alone -- than the pre-Crisis stories of DC's, which are now fully canon as well.

Current Superman has plenty of his own ridiculous feats anyways. Imo, outside of a few brief moments, Superman has been more impressive over the last decade plus than either of them featwise, and quite substantially.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Pretending that Alan Moore's Superman from For The Man Who Has Everything would have blown away galaxies if he accidentally sneezed during the fight is either lazy, stupid or trying to rewrite history in the exact opposite direction that the DC editors moved.

Nobody argues that Superman didn't fought Mongul Sr. Arguing that his fight with Mongul Sr. involved galaxy-shattering punches is idiotic.

i don't know who was arguing that...

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
sam
Flash Fact: PC Scenery is often times 1000 times as durable as Primary Adamantium.

Originally posted by Juntai
Of course, however Marvel moved in the same direction. Which is why it's laughable when 60's 70's and even some 80's feats are used to support the strength of say . . Thor, or Hulk, when it's been quite clear they aren't written like that -currently-. And it's not even a question of these events having actually transpired once upon a time, because of course, they did, however they are no more canon to the characters -- outside of reference alone -- than the pre-Crisis stories of DC's, which are now fully canon as well.

Current Superman has plenty of his own ridiculous feats anyways. Imo, outside of a few brief moments, Superman has been more impressive over the last decade plus than either of them featwise, and quite substantially. Hulk is actually stronger than ever and most of Thor's and Doc Strange's relative depowerements, for instance, have been covered in storylines as the products of actual events, not just scaling down. That's why we use classic Thor, classic Strange or classic Juggernaut to refer to the older versions and this is made clear all the time. Besides, for as many characters who were weakened, others became much more powerfull, the MU as a whole wasn't scaled down like DCU was, shit happened to individual characters, that's all. In fact, the MU as a whole has seen a steady increase in average power level among its non-abstract folk.

Using PC feats to argue for current SM is absurd, let alone using a PC statement that was hyperbole back then and treating it as statement of fact for current SM because the story was referenced post-crisis.

Originally posted by 753 Hulk is actually stronger than ever Try proving it with feats. Any Hulk feats of the last decade, verses those of years past.


It wasn't scaled down as one event, but it was certainly scaled back from the loony 60s and 70s nonsense. Both companies are making their characters steadily more powerful again.

I wasn't attempting to connect the two at any point, I joined for particular parts of the conversation here, so don't project another debate entirely onto me just because I've joined a discussion.

Oh, and PC Superman certainly would have had the strength to punch through a diamond planet. That's not hyperbole, by definition.

^ I really don't think there is such thing as hyperbole for PC Superman.

PC Superman punches hyperbole. In the face.

Originally posted by Juntai
Try proving it with feats. Any Hulk feats of the last decade, verses those of years past. WWH, Worldbreaker, current green scar like persona. hulk was destroying the planet by walking on it and another step would do it in. current hulk defeated the rulk with a thunderclap after tanking a mushroom cloud blow and resisting his energy drain. WWH walked through everyone on earth, sure there was lots of PIS in it, but the overall powerlevel has become pretty much the highest since his creation.

He had threatened to shatter a tectonic plate with the stress caused by his leg muscles contracting in the past, but things reached an even bigger sclae with the world breaking hulk.

Marvel has a fairly clean retcon history. Sure there's minor things but few really huge retcons like the beyonder mess. That's just my opinion of course. DC on the other hand seems to revel in retcons. You'll get a headache just trying to figure out Power Girl alone.

Originally posted by Kasper Gutman
Marvel has a fairly clean retcon history. Sure there's minor things but few really huge retcons like the beyonder mess. That's just my opinion of course. DC on the other hand seems to revel in retcons. You'll get a headache just trying to figure out Power Girl alone. She's Kara of Earth 2 left over from the Crisis on Infinite Earth's was born. The universe, not having any 'other Earth' characters, as this was a newborn reality, was trying to adapt and give her a story, hence her multiple origins.

Oh, and Marvel retcons stuff all the time.
Check out Tony Stark's past being rewritten over and over.
Check out Spiderman's current debacle.
They even retconned the shit out of Grant Morrison's run on X-men when he bailed back to DC comics.
There's example after example of this.

Neither company is really more-so at blame for this that the other.

Originally posted by Juntai


Oh, and PC Superman certainly would have had the strength to punch through a diamond planet. um...based on?

Originally posted by Starscream M
um...based on? Uhh, have you looked at the Pre-Crisis Superman thread? And that's only a portion of the ridiculous shit.

The shit he does makes punching through a planet of diamond look like an easy task.


The force of a hundred galaxies knocked him a few feet. lol.

The guy could ****ing grab the planet and throw it across the universe. Or use his breath to blow away stars.

Used to play catch with moons and had to be careful not to throw too hard because it would explode when hit their hands.

He could look at a diamond planet and turn it into coal!


The Pre-Crisis Kryptonians were so ridiculous the universe might as well have been paper and cardboard to them.


Also, diamond becomes brittle once fractured. Once his initial force cracks through it, chances are the whole thing comes apart.

oh sorry..didn't realize you were talking about pc superman

Originally posted by Juntai
Of course, however Marvel moved in the same direction. Which is why it's laughable when 60's 70's and even some 80's feats are used to support the strength of say . . Thor, or Hulk, when it's been quite clear they aren't written like that -currently-. And it's not even a question of these events having actually transpired once upon a time, because of course, they did, however they are no more canon to the characters -- outside of reference alone -- than the pre-Crisis stories of DC's, which are now fully canon as well.

Current Superman has plenty of his own ridiculous feats anyways. Imo, outside of a few brief moments, Superman has been more impressive over the last decade plus than either of them featwise, and quite substantially. lolwut? Thor and Hulk from the 60's were far less powerful than they have been portrayed recently. Nobody thought during the 60's, 70's and 80's, that Thor would be capable of killing Mangog or one-shotting Durok (W/O MJOLNIR). Nobody thought during the 60's, 70's and 80's, Hulk would be healing from a near-skeletal state in panels or nearly breaking the continental coastline with footsteps. Let's talk about Silver Surfer... you think Surfer in the 60's, 70's and 80's was capable of nonchalantly creating a black hole?

Don't deflect. PC Superboy sneezed and galaxies were destroyed. Post-Crisis Superman's noticeable increases in power since the Byrne-era don't even come close to those levels. And random references and flashbacks don't create justification to ignore the simple and plain fact: current Superman is nowhere near as powerful as PC Superman at his height. Originally posted by -Pr-
i don't know who was arguing that... Nobody in this thread directly. And that's the way it should be. But look to posters' comments and you can see where they're trying to do: return to the old arguments made in every "Mongul Sr. vs. _____" thread, i.e., "lolz, Mongul Sr. was trashing PC Superman!!! Curp-stompage!!!"

I really love people who do not even question a Marvel retcon but jump over the DC retcons like there is no tomorrow.

There is a really interesting point that OneDumbG0 makes

"fact: current Superman is nowhere near as powerful as PC Superman at his height. "

Agree Current Superman is not near as powerful as PC Superman AT HIS HEIGHT.

Splitting a diamond planet is NOT a HIGH END FEAT FOR PC SUPERMAN.

Therefore is conceibable that Current Superman could perform a PC Superman low end feat.

So I really don's see why this guys are arguing about.

IF HE WANT'S HE CAN, END OF THE STORY

Originally posted by biensalsa
I really love people who do not even question a Marvel retcon but jump over the DC retcons like there is no tomorrow.

There is a really interesting point that OneDumbG0 makes

"fact: current Superman is nowhere near as powerful as PC Superman at his height. "

Agree Current Superman is not near as powerful as PC Superman AT HIS HEIGHT.

Splitting a diamond planet is NOT a HIGH END FEAT FOR PC SUPERMAN.

Therefore is conceibable that Current Superman could perform a PC Superman low end feat.

So I really don's see why this guys are arguing about.

IF HE WANT'S HE CAN, END OF THE STORY

Show me a single strengh feat from curent superman that allows one to conclude he could indeed shatter a diamond planet in half as this is the only proof that matters and not whether or not pre-crisis could do it.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Nobody in this thread directly. And that's the way it should be. But look to posters' comments and you can see where they're trying to do: return to the old arguments made in every "Mongul Sr. vs. _____" thread, i.e., "lolz, Mongul Sr. was trashing PC Superman!!! Curp-stompage!!!"

TBH, for me it's no different than deathstroke giving superman trouble one week, and him taking on multiple probes the next.

high and low showings etc.

Plus, as was said earlier, Superman and Mongul weren't exactly smashing planets during the fight. Though like all comic fights, inconsistency plays a part.

^ Deathstroke PIS =/= current Superman is reaching PC levels. Vast difference.Originally posted by biensalsa
Agree Current Superman is not near as powerful as PC Superman AT HIS HEIGHT.

Splitting a diamond planet is NOT a HIGH END FEAT FOR PC SUPERMAN.

Therefore is conceibable that Current Superman could perform a PC Superman low end feat. I would accuse you of making unjustifiable leaps of logic, but that would be an insult to unjustifiable leaps of logic. Originally posted by biensalsa
IF HE WANT'S HE CAN, END OF THE STORY Profile-worthy right thar.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Deathstroke PIS =/= current Superman is reaching PC levels. Vast difference. I would accuse you of making unjustifiable leaps of logic, but that would be an insult to unjustifiable leaps of logic. Profile-worthy right thar.

WOW!!! Somebody is in pain, for them to actually reply to MY ONLY SINGLE POST IN THE WHOLE WEEK.

I WONDER WHO THOSE MIGHT BE?

Originally posted by biensalsa
WOW!!! Somebody is in pain, for them to actually reply to MY ONLY SINGLE POST IN THE WHOLE WEEK.

I WONDER WHO THOSE MIGHT BE? oh and that post was a giant steaming brick of a turd, as opposed to the small rabbit pellets your fingers usually drop here more frequently.

the smell of lies is very painful

Originally posted by 753
Even then, the description alone wouldn't prove anything, but actually we've seen what the SS can survive on his own, including ions.

In other words, statements without feats are usually written off as hyperbole.

Although, what happens if, say, the yellow power battery is claimed as being capable of destroying the Milky Way? Obviously, it won't actually destroy the Milky Way. Should we assume it would have, or write such comments off as hyperbole?

Just by way of example. I can probably think of other examples of characters making a claim as fact, that's never going to realistically happen.. (Another example is Supermans punches on the moon threatening to knock it out of it's orbit. As it didn't, does this mean we write it off as a hyperbolic statement?)

Originally posted by cdtm
In other words, statements without feats are usually written off as hyperbole.

Although, what happens if, say, the yellow power battery is claimed as being capable of destroying the Milky Way? Obviously, it won't actually destroy the Milky Way. Should we assume it would have, or write such comments off as hyperbole?

Just by way of example. I can probably think of other examples of characters making a claim as fact, that's never going to realistically happen.. (Another example is Supermans punches on the moon threatening to knock it out of it's orbit. As it didn't, does this mean we write it off as a hyperbolic statement?) i think it would take a case by case analysis. does the character have other feats of comparable power to what he is claiming he can do? is the claim a clear atempt embelish the narration and give a larger than life feel to the story? Is it reasonable to assume under the circumstances in which the action is taking place that the blow is indeed enough to knock the moon out of orbit if it doesnt do that and doesnt cause massive collateral damage? It is somewhat subjective though, I would agree.

Originally posted by cdtm
In other words, statements without feats are usually written off as hyperbole.

Although, what happens if, say, the yellow power battery is claimed as being capable of destroying the Milky Way? Obviously, it won't actually destroy the Milky Way. Should we assume it would have, or write such comments off as hyperbole?

Just by way of example. I can probably think of other examples of characters making a claim as fact, that's never going to realistically happen.. (Another example is Supermans punches on the moon threatening to knock it out of it's orbit. As it didn't, does this mean we write it off as a hyperbolic statement?)

n/a

I see it like this... if they have shown that they can destroy a planet then thats when any statements like that should be used as evidence.... Example... cyclops stated that he is hitting juggernaut with enough power to split a planet in half... we do not have one showing of cyclops blast being capable of destroying a planet so in other words its hyperbole. Everyone has it that is why we accept feats, showings.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Deathstroke PIS =/= current Superman is reaching PC levels. Vast difference.

not really.

his highest end stuff? sure. his average? i'm not so sure.

Plus, the fact that they've fought and Superman has held his own against his PC self needs to be considered imo.

I'm not going to argue that he can blow out stars though. Nobody else should, either.

Originally posted by carver9
I see it like this... if they have shown that they can destroy a planet then thats when any statements like that should be used as evidence.... Example... cyclops stated that he is hitting juggernaut with enough power to split a planet in half... we do not have one showing of cyclops blast being capable of destroying a planet so in other words its hyperbole. Everyone has it that is why we accept feats, showings.

and you'd be right, except when the character has equal or superior feats to said task.

Superman destroyed uranus with one finger. Heh.

Originally posted by shokosugi
Superman destroyed uranus with one finger. Heh.
Scans plz?

Originally posted by shokosugi
Superman destroyed uranus with one finger. Heh.
LOL

Btw that wasnt addressed to Pr lol

Originally posted by shokosugi
Superman destroyed uranus with one finger. Heh.

Originally posted by shokosugi
Superman destroyed uranus with one finger. Heh.





Soooo wrooooong! But funny.

Originally posted by -Pr-
not really.

his highest end stuff? sure. his average? i'm not so sure.

Plus, the fact that they've fought and Superman has held his own against his PC self needs to be considered imo.

I'm not going to argue that he can blow out stars though. Nobody else should, either. Average? You mean his average from his vastly depowered PC era that immediately preceded the Crisis? Makes more sense. Adding in the 30's to 70's of PC Superman utterly wrecks this theory of averages.

Most PC-Superman feats involve PC Kal-El, not PC Kal-L. Current Kal-El never fought a "PC Superman" that possesses the level of power most posters here are familiar with.

Which is why this whole exercise of re-retconning back in PC-era events, and by extension, PC-era feats, makes no sense. You don't re-retcon them in. You retrofit them. Originally posted by biensalsa
WOW!!! Somebody is in pain, for them to actually reply to MY ONLY SINGLE POST IN THE WHOLE WEEK.

I WONDER WHO THOSE MIGHT BE? How does your posting habit that particular week have anything to do with the fact that I responded to your reply to my earlier post?

Stop speaking retard to me. Translate it to English first.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Average? You mean his average from his vastly depowered PC era that immediately preceded the Crisis? Makes more sense. Adding in the 30's to 70's of PC Superman utterly wrecks this theory of averages.

Most PC-Superman feats involve PC Kal-El, not PC Kal-L. Current Kal-El never fought a "PC Superman" that possesses the level of power most posters here are familiar with.

Which is why this whole exercise of re-retconning back in PC-era events, and by extension, PC-era feats, makes no sense. You don't re-retcon them in. You retrofit them. How does your posting habit that particular week have anything to do with the fact that I responded to your reply to my earlier post?

Stop speaking retard to me. Translate it to English first.

then we agree, i think.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Average? You mean his average from his vastly depowered PC era that immediately preceded the Crisis? Makes more sense. Adding in the 30's to 70's of PC Superman utterly wrecks this theory of averages.

Most PC-Superman feats involve PC Kal-El, not PC Kal-L. Current Kal-El never fought a "PC Superman" that possesses the level of power most posters here are familiar with.


During the Crisis, Kal-L was still tossing around moons at Anti Monitor.

But to be honest, the younger Kal-L in the World War II era All Star Squadron seemed even weaker then Byrne Superman. He got KOEd by a nuke, for one, and needed Alan Scott and Wonder Woman's help to deal with it.

^ IIRC, asteroids... and a small moon?

PC Superman wasn't free from low feats. That's just characteristic of any long-standing comic character.

Superman does not have the strength to destroy the earth, he had to build up mass plus flight assist to destroy a small moon. On panel proof shows he could not do it with 500 punches.

Originally posted by Juntai
In a few of the current cases it actually references the issue numbers, such as when JLA and the Legion fought Mordru back in the 70's was referenced in a comic a bit ago, and it said the exact issue numbers. So it's not 'something like this' happened, these actual pre-crisis stories happened.

In the Mongul case, they put the Alan Moore Mongul story into a Superman"Giant Sized Special", which they did for a bunch of characters following Crisis.

It's actually the de-powering that didn't happen, rather than the stories -- Byrnes or the Pre-Crisis, they were just always that strong, give or take.
What does it matter that they're mentioning exact issue numbers when they were doing that kind of thing RIGHT after COIE?

I'm not familiar with the Mongul story so I can't really speak on that since I don't know if the objection I have with what biensalsa would like to do here applies to that story.

Well that's one theory, but is there actually anything to suggest that the extremely inconsistant powerlevel of the Pre Crisis characters wasn't being rectoned to match their Post Crisis counterparts rather than vice versa? I mean how the characters were being portrayed in 1991 seems like it would give us a pretty good idea of which version of the characters powerlevels were really being adjusted by a story from 1990...

Originally posted by darthgoober
What does it matter that they're mentioning exact issue numbers when they were doing that kind of thing RIGHT after COIE?

I'm not familiar with the Mongul story so I can't really speak on that since I don't know if the objection I have with what biensalsa would like to do here applies to that story.

Well that's one theory, but is there actually anything to suggest that the extremely inconsistant powerlevel of the Pre Crisis characters wasn't being rectoned to match their Post Crisis counterparts rather than vice versa? I mean how the characters were being portrayed in 1991 seems like it would give us a pretty good idea of which version of the characters powerlevels were really being adjusted by a story from 1990...

I'm not talking about considering Superman of 1990 or 1991 to be capable to split a diamond planet in two. I'm talking about CURRENT Superman, yes the retcon happened a while back, but it would not apply to his power level of back then. On his current power level it is a posiblity.

Now the guy can lift mini singularities, even micro singularities are supposed to be dense enough to go thru earth like rock goes thru air, how he will not be able to split a planet?

Originally posted by Starscream M
um yes they do

if superman goes full force at earth....he'll go right through it, creating a hole so small relative to the planet

think about an analogy

take a watermelon, and then you shoot a single particle of sand (superman would prob be much smaller in relation) through that watermelon. it doesn't matter how hard you shoot that sand, at best, the send travels through the watermelon...but because of its small surface area, it can't shatter the watermelon.
RoW8nHIVuRk

Why did that happen? The bullet should have just passed through the watermelon!

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
no way in hell

said the retarded superman hater i mean seriously you are the dumbest after quanchi around here

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Hulk would it in one punch though

what an idiot

Originally posted by MONSTAR
Superman does not have the strength to destroy the earth, he had to build up mass plus flight assist to destroy a small moon. On panel proof shows he could not do it with 500 punches.

wrong idiot, who said that destroying the moon was his limit? who said he aplyed all his strength to do it? again you are retarded

Originally posted by tribunal
what an idiot He's right actually. There are versions of hulk who could do it with a punch and at least one could it by walking.

Originally posted by biensalsa
I'm not talking about considering Superman of 1990 or 1991 to be capable to split a diamond planet in two. I'm talking about CURRENT Superman, yes the retcon happened a while back, but it would not apply to his power level of back then. On his current power level it is a posiblity.

Now the guy can lift mini singularities, even micro singularities are supposed to be dense enough to go thru earth like rock goes thru air, how he will not be able to split a planet?
You're talking about something that supposedly "rectons" 1990 Superman, so yeah you are talking about Supes from that year. See if they were rectoning the non feat into continuity it would apply to Supes the year it happened, it doesn't "kick in" 20 years later if it never was never supposed to apply in the first place.

Hey I don't doubt that Supes could bust a planet now, I was just pointing out that a story from Pre Crisis continuity being mentioned in Post Crisis Continuity doesn't make the characters Pre Crisis feats from the story applicable to their Post Crisis incarnation.

The question is vague - When we say "destroy" do we we mean melting the surface beyond all recognition, or do we we mean launching every bit of Earth Mass into orbit ?


In regards to A.) then yes .... Michio Kaku's recent Physics of the imposable series, claims you can scar a planet beyond all recognition, by melting the Core - Well withing Superman's power levels, destroying destroying that Shadow moon, Moving the Moon with Wonder Woman, and Green Lantern, require a far superior energy output.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=star-wars-science-death-star


In regards to B.) ... No way !!!!! Not because Superman doesn't have the physical potential, but because the Sun does even come close to giving out enough energy.


http://rikdad.blogspot.com/2009/04/how-strong-is-superman.html


This being the Key Quote :

"The bad news is, for Superman to push a planet with the force described above, he would have to burn up 2 quintillion tons of matter each second. "

This is Trillion times more energy than the Sun gives off a second - Even if you take Superman's ability to store Sunlight energy, it would still take over 30, 000 years (and that's if he absorbs ALL the Sun's energy - Killing everyone on earth in the process) to absorb enough energy to move the Earth for a second.

So Yes I think Superman can "destroy" a planet. But there's no way he can DESTROY a planet. Planet Destroying, i.e. moving the entire mass out of orbit is IMO a truly Sky Father level feat. We talking about the manipulation of energies beyond the out put of a Star.

Originally posted by darthgoober
You're talking about something that supposedly "rectons" 1990 Superman, so yeah you are talking about Supes from that year. See if they were rectoning the non feat into continuity it would apply to Supes the year it happened, it doesn't "kick in" 20 years later if it never was never supposed to apply in the first place.

Hey I don't doubt that Supes could bust a planet now, I was just pointing out that a story from Pre Crisis continuity being mentioned in Post Crisis Continuity doesn't make the characters Pre Crisis feats from the story applicable to their Post Crisis incarnation.

My bad then Goober. I probably did not explain my self well enough. I do not believe Superman in 1990 will be able to split a diamond planet in two.

I was thinking more a long the lines of Current Superman being capable of doing the retcon feat.

And Pre Crisis feats counting for Post Crisis incarnations is subjective to interpretation. There are some that can be taken as they are shown and some that most likelly can be taken as hyperboles

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
The question is vague - When we say "destroy" do we we mean melting the surface beyond all recognition, or do we we mean launching every bit of Earth Mass into orbit ?


In regards to A.) then yes .... Michio Kaku's recent Physics of the imposable series, claims you can scar a planet beyond all recognition, by melting the Core - Well withing Superman's power levels, destroying destroying that Shadow moon, Moving the Moon with Wonder Woman, and Green Lantern, require a far superior energy output.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=star-wars-science-death-star


In regards to B.) ... No way !!!!! Not because Superman doesn't have the physical potential, but because the Sun does even come close to giving out enough energy.


http://rikdad.blogspot.com/2009/04/how-strong-is-superman.html


This being the Key Quote :

"The bad news is, for Superman to push a planet with the force described above, he would have to burn up 2 quintillion tons of matter each second. "

This is Trillion times more energy than the Sun gives off a second - Even if you take Superman's ability to store Sunlight energy, it would still take over 30, 000 years (and that's if he absorbs ALL the Sun's energy - Killing everyone on earth in the process) to absorb enough energy to move the Earth for a second.

So Yes I think Superman can "destroy" a planet. But there's no way he can DESTROY a planet. Planet Destroying, i.e. moving the entire mass out of orbit is IMO a truly Sky Father level feat. We talking about the manipulation of energies beyond the out put of a Star.

He is more a reactor than a battery.

There is also several ways to destroy earth other than planet moving
It is theorized that 60 tons of energy is enough to split the earth in two
ONLY 60 TONS

Originally posted by 753
He's right actually. There are versions of hulk who could do it with a punch and at least one could it by walking.

And none of them has ever lifted a mini singularity, what is your point exactly?

Originally posted by biensalsa
And none of them has ever lifted a mini singularity, what is your point exactly? It was the size of a baseball

Originally posted by Mindset
It was the size of a baseball

So?

Even a micro singularity is so heavy that it will go thru earth like a rock goes thru air

Originally posted by biensalsa
So?

Even a micro singularity is so heavy that it will go thru earth like a rock goes thru air Based on?

Not that Supes, Hulk, and a myriad of other heroes aren't more durable than Earth, anyway.