WWH and Skaar vs Surfer

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kgkg
WWH and Skaar vs Surfer
- No Energy Drain
- No Bfr

Naija boy
Surfer wins.

The Nuul
Is Pak or Loeb writing?

illadelph12
Surfer trasmutes the air surrounding them into a giant blob of a super adhesive rubbery substance so that they can't move or attack anyone.

He then flips them the bird and flies away.

dmills
If wwh can have his skin shredded by sand I'm thinking that Norrin could cook up something nasty enough to put him down.

kgkg
Originally posted by The Nuul
Is Pak or Loeb writing? Not to sure how Loeb will write it... But Pak wrote the issue where Surfer owned Skaar with old power in h2h.

dmills
Originally posted by kgkg
Not to sure how Loeb will write it... But Pak wrote the issue where Surfer owned Skaar with old power in h2h. Loeb would have Rulk drain Surfer lol!

Pak actually has an affinity for cosmic characters so that doesn't surprise me.

Gecko4lif
Originally posted by dmills
If wwh can have his skin shredded by sand I'm thinking that Norrin could cook up something nasty enough to put him down.

Not skin shredded.

IMPALED.

Colossus-Big C
team

D_Dude1210
Originally posted by illadelph12
Surfer trasmutes the air surrounding them into a giant blob of a super adhesive rubbery substance so that they can't move or attack anyone.

He then flips them the bird and flies away.

Soooo, you're saying team wins via BFR?

Stoic
team

D_Dude1210
Originally posted by Stoic
team

How?

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
How? Punching him

AlmightyKfish
Surfer ftw.

dmills
Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Not skin shredded.

IMPALED. Shredded, impaled, what ever it was he was phucked up but good smile

janus77
team wins with these stips.

Badabing
Originally posted by Stoic
team Originally posted by D_Dude1210
How? Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Punching him laughing out loud

D_Dude1210
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Punching him

FLAWLESS LOGIC!!! ZOMG!

But, to be serious, Surfer blows up the planet, opens a black hole then has tea while the 2 eventually get compressed into spaghetti.

dmills
The stips don't mean jack. There's still stasis, mind rape, energy conversion, anti matter, mass conversion, shrinkage, black holes, freezing, astral plane, gravity Manipulation...

dmills
Norrin could literally laugh at them whilst hovering high above them and blasting away. They could never touch him if he didn't allow it lol.

kgkg
Originally posted by dmills
Loeb would have Rulk drain Surfer lol!

Pak actually has an affinity for cosmic characters so that doesn't surprise me. Well at least he used a rookie Surfer and used a plot device to beat him....I will take that over Rulk punching Surfer out any day.

Loeb was good not sure what happen with his Hulk runs wink

dmills
Originally posted by kgkg
Well at least he used a rookie Surfer and used a plot device to beat him....I will take that over Rulk punching Surfer out any day.

Loeb was good not sure what happen with his Hulk runs wink He's a DC guy. They don't typically adhere to a strict hierarchy the way Marvel does. Or should I say used to.

janus77
Originally posted by dmills
The stips don't mean jack. There's still stasis, mind rape, energy conversion, anti matter, mass conversion, shrinkage, black holes, freezing, astral plane, gravity Manipulation...
for Surfer to stay out of range, he needs to be off planet or hanging in the upper atmosphere, both would be self-bfr, no?

as to the rest:-
none of that would affect Hulk, he's already shrugged off matter manip by Goom (magical entity) and Stranger (iirc). Astral Plane doesn't work because he retains his Hulk prowess (Maestro's soul empowering The Destroyer rather than Banner's soul), mind rape is useless, anti-matter cant do anything to him (Savage Hulk long ago ripped matter and anti-matter with his bare hands), grav manipulation would only work as a bfr method, mass conversion goes back to bfr or matter manip which won't work, freezing would only be temporary (at best) and that's not taking into accound that Banner/Hulk _radiates_ gamma, shrinkage is useless because there's no internal weakness to be exploited (Hulk is as strong at the molecular level as hi is at the macro level) ...

Surfer normally starts off much stronger, more durable and with the capacity for amping too but, Current Hulk would be stronger and would amp so quickly (and, as demostrated against Red Hulk, have control over his gamma energies sufficient to avoid drainage) that it would be a test for Surfer's durability and resiliance.

over time, Surfer would wear down, whilst Hulk would be hitting new peaks of power ... not good no expression


the stips make this a fight Hulk can't lose.

illadelph12
^Uh, not so much.

Even with the stips Surfer would own Hulk and Son. He can simply transmute the air around them into something they can't escape, like say, adamantium (or a reasonable facsimile), and then walk up and cosmic teabag the statues. Or he can use the blob trick. Or he can transmute the air into a superheated corrosive acid. Or he could turn the ground into water so they have no place to stand. Or he could polarize them so that they act as magnets to each other and are bodily stuck together. Or he could encase their heads in darkness so they can't see anything, then hover above the ground quietly and let them flail around aimlessly like idiots.

The possibilities are endless.

dmills
Or convert the gamma energy into hydrogen, or place them in the center of two event horizons, or invert their gravity making them float helplessly like balloons, or make them too heavy to move.

dmills
Originally posted by janus77
for Surfer to stay out of range, he needs to be off planet or hanging in the upper atmosphere, both would be self-bfr, no?

as to the rest:-
none of that would affect Hulk, he's already shrugged off matter manip by Goom (magical entity) and Stranger (iirc). Astral Plane doesn't work because he retains his Hulk prowess (Maestro's soul empowering The Destroyer rather than Banner's soul), mind rape is useless, anti-matter cant do anything to him (Savage Hulk long ago ripped matter and anti-matter with his bare hands), grav manipulation would only work as a bfr method, mass conversion goes back to bfr or matter manip which won't work, freezing would only be temporary (at best) and that's not taking into accound that Banner/Hulk _radiates_ gamma, shrinkage is useless because there's no internal weakness to be exploited (Hulk is as strong at the molecular level as hi is at the macro level) ...

Surfer normally starts off much stronger, more durable and with the capacity for amping too but, Current Hulk would be stronger and would amp so quickly (and, as demostrated against Red Hulk, have control over his gamma energies sufficient to avoid drainage) that it would be a test for Surfer's durability and resiliance.

over time, Surfer would wear down, whilst Hulk would be hitting new peaks of power ... not good no expression


the stips make this a fight Hulk can't lose. Tore matter and anti-matter apart with his hands? He's an energy manipulator now? Otherwise it's PIS.

How will Surfer get tired?

D_Dude1210
Originally posted by janus77
for Surfer to stay out of range, he needs to be off planet or hanging in the upper atmosphere, both would be self-bfr, no?


Why would it be self-BFR?

janus77
Originally posted by dmills
Tore matter and anti-matter apart with his hands? He's an energy manipulator now? Otherwise it's PIS.

How will Surfer get tired?
you mean you don't know that Savage Hulk can grab/rip/tear energy and matter?

he's always been a "matter manipulator" in that extremely literal sense. check out the WWH - Sentry fight where Hulk uses Sentry's light-constructs as hand grips when he leaps into the air ...

yeah, Hulk has never been a simple brick, he's always exhibited these quirky powers, so no PIS.

janus77
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Why would it be self-BFR?
because he'd be away from the battlefield.
he may not remove Hulk or Skaar but he will definitely have removed himself.

D_Dude1210
Originally posted by janus77
because he'd be away from the battlefield.
he may not remove Hulk or Skaar but he will definitely have removed himself.

Not really, to be a genuine BFR he would have to remove himself in such a way that would place him unable to affect and be affected by the battlefield at all.

As long as the battlefield is in range of his abilities, I don't think it should be classified as a "BFR". There's really no "ring-out" stips here or at least there shouldn't be.

Anyway, Surfer blows up the planet, dances around as Hulk and Skaar floats around in space, suffocating.

janus77
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Not really, to be a genuine BFR he would have to remove himself in such a way that would place him unable to affect and be affected by the battlefield at all.

As long as the battlefield is in range of his abilities, I don't think it should be classified as a "BFR". There's really no "ring-out" stips here or at least there shouldn't be.

Anyway, Surfer blows up the planet, dances around as Hulk and Skaar floats around in space, suffocating.
hmm, I'm sure there's a default battlefield dimension on KMC, with combatents standing at a default distance from each other.

oh and Hulk (most likely Skaar too) doesn't suffocate in space. according to Nick Fury, he evolved to not require oxygen (during his fight in space with Godseye). and also, he was standing atop the Stoneship, as it flew through space, on its way to Earth.

blowing up the planet would result in stalemate. though in that scenario Hulk wouldn't be able to attack Surfer smile

D_Dude1210
Originally posted by janus77
hmm, I'm sure there's a default battlefield dimension on KMC, with combatents standing at a default distance from each other.

oh and Hulk (most likely Skaar too) doesn't suffocate in space. according to Nick Fury, he evolved to not require oxygen (during his fight in space with Godseye). and also, he was standing atop the Stoneship, as it flew through space, on its way to Earth.

blowing up the planet would result in stalemate. though in that scenario Hulk wouldn't be able to attack Surfer smile

I remember instances where Hulk needed to breathe, but I guess that was quite some time back. stick out tongue

Also, why would blowing up the planet result in a stalemate? This allows the Surfer to just blast them at his leisure while they float helplessly in space...

janus77
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
I remember instances where Hulk needed to breathe, but I guess that was quite some time back. stick out tongue

Also, why would blowing up the planet result in a stalemate? This allows the Surfer to just blast them at his leisure while they float helplessly in space...
if blasting was gonna do anything but infuriate (strengthen) Hulk, then it would have worked with or without the planet being blown up.

imo, blasts would end up just empowering Hulk (like nuclear explosions and gamma rays do). Hulk is clearly capable of surviving planet destroying blasts without trouble (Sakaar).

yeah Hulk "adapted" to breathing under water in Tempus Fugit (I think), but later on he stated that all his Savage Hulk antics were merely the adolescence of his power so, I guess he wasn't really aware of this until after the Godseye incident, also remember that he leaps from Sakaar to the moon and back, without any breathing equipment.

D_Dude1210
Originally posted by janus77
if blasting was gonna do anything but infuriate (strengthen) Hulk, then it would have worked with or without the planet being blown up.

imo, blasts would end up just empowering Hulk (like nuclear explosions and gamma rays do). Hulk is clearly capable of surviving planet destroying blasts without trouble (Sakaar).

yeah Hulk "adapted" to breathing under water in Tempus Fugit (I think), but later on he stated that all his Savage Hulk antics were merely the adolescence of his power so, I guess he wasn't really aware of this until after the Godseye incident, also remember that he leaps from Sakaar to the moon and back, without any breathing equipment.

I'm pretty sure current Surfer has the firepower to KO the Hulk and with his ability to read his opponent's weaknesses, he can prolly pattern his energy blasts to weaken the Hulk and not empower him.

Also, he CAN always just pull Hulk into the Astral Plane then pummel him there.

TBH, Surfer just has WAYYYY too many options versus Hulk's one-dimensional abilities (potent as they might be).

dmills
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
I'm pretty sure current Surfer has the firepower to KO the Hulk and with his ability to read his opponent's weaknesses, he can prolly pattern his energy blasts to weaken the Hulk and not empower him.

Also, he CAN always just pull Hulk into the Astral Plane then pummel him there.

TBH, Surfer just has WAYYYY too many options versus Hulk's one-dimensional abilities (potent as they might be). Truth. And he'd beat them quite easily at that imo.

janus77
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
I'm pretty sure current Surfer has the firepower to KO the Hulk and with his ability to read his opponent's weaknesses, he can prolly pattern his energy blasts to weaken the Hulk and not empower him.

Also, he CAN always just pull Hulk into the Astral Plane then pummel him there.

TBH, Surfer just has WAYYYY too many options versus Hulk's one-dimensional abilities (potent as they might be).
I honestly don't think the Astral Plane trick will work on him. he's both Hulk and Banner on both planes (as I said before, The Maestro's soul already fought against prof. hulk, by using the Destroyer). Hulk would retain his powers there.

as for the energy thing, you know that the more annoyed he gets, the more durable he gets... so unless he's quickly KOed (which I don't see anyone under high SkyFather having the ability to do), he'll just overcome all attacks.

Hulk's offensive capabilities are limited, it is true, but his range of defenses are not. from psychic to magic to physical to energetic attacks, all have been repulsed/absorbed/manipulated/overcome to varying degrees by Hulk. in defensive terms, he's the best there is.

Surfer's options have traditionally been 1) gamma drain 2) bfr and 3) tank Hulk's initial attacks and calm him down/reason with him.

Surfer can tank a few attacks from Current Hulk, but eventually it'll prove too much (as Hulk is motivated to fight Surfer), but he cannot gamma drain nor bfr so...

janus77
Originally posted by dmills
Truth. And he'd beat them quite easily at that imo.
didn't you scream PIS at the idea of Hulk ripping matter and anti-matter apart? stick out tongue

D_Dude1210
Originally posted by janus77
I honestly don't think the Astral Plane trick will work on him. he's both Hulk and Banner on both planes (as I said before, The Maestro's soul already fought against prof. hulk, by using the Destroyer). Hulk would retain his powers there.

as for the energy thing, you know that the more annoyed he gets, the more durable he gets... so unless he's quickly KOed (which I don't see anyone under high SkyFather having the ability to do), he'll just overcome all attacks.

Hulk's offensive capabilities are limited, it is true, but his range of defenses are not. from psychic to magic to physical to energetic attacks, all have been repulsed/absorbed/manipulated/overcome to varying degrees by Hulk. in defensive terms, he's the best there is.

Surfer's options have traditionally been 1) gamma drain 2) bfr and 3) tank Hulk's initial attacks and calm him down/reason with him.

Surfer can tank a few attacks from Current Hulk, but eventually it'll prove too much (as Hulk is motivated to fight Surfer), but he cannot gamma drain nor bfr so...

Again, Surfer needs not tank anything the Hulk does. He's gonna be simply out of Hulk's punching range and should be too fast for the Hulk to simply leap towards while he's in flight.

I mean, how is Hulk even going to HIT the Surfer?? It's not like the Surfer is going to stand there and let the Hulk hit him.

Hulk has NO chance here. He can go all WB on Surfer and he still won't be able to lay a hand on him.

Surfer did the Astral plane attack on a creature far superior physically to him. It has been stated that in the Astral Plane, the Power Cosmic is at its strongest. IF this is the case, even if Hulk retained his full powers, he has no chance vs the Surfer in the Astral Plane.

Surfer can also simply absorb the Hulk into the board or revert him to banner by simply using his PC to slowly calm him down (being able to affect emotions is something the PC has been able to do as well).

Even at the worst possible instance, Surfer wins this eventually. Though he can win this quite quickly (and convincingly at that).

Surfer wins 10/10 here. No chance for Hulk to win and Skaar isn't even a factor.

D_Dude1210
Let's cut to the chase here. What exactly is your argument?

"Hulk eventually gets strong enough to punch Surfer out of the sky"?

As arguments go, that's a bit weak isn't it?

janus77
Surfer took Murungu (sp?) to the Astral Plane, I don't know of any character more powerful than Hulk.

Hulk's reach and accuracy are a part of the character, if Thor can hit Surfer (which he shouldn't but he does) so can Hulk. not about to debate being able to hit him, so we can just agree to disagree on that no expression

as for the whole business of trapping Hulk in the board, again you really are underestimating the kind of strength Hulk has, he'd rip it to shreds. no calming or whatever.

yes Surfer can affect emotions (he's done so worldwide), but he's never done so against Hulk and I have seen no feats of such manipulation against herald levellers. I doubt it'll work for the same reason Prof. X can't get at Hulk's mind.

janus77
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Let's cut to the chase here. What exactly is your argument?

"Hulk eventually gets strong enough to punch Surfer out of the sky"?

As arguments go, that's a bit weak isn't it?
not really, that's pretty much what would happen. with the given stips.

do you have an argument that doesn't involve denying on-panel history and abilities?

Surfer's gonna tire before Hulk does, Surfer can be dazed by a glancing blow, which is all that Hulk would need for an opening.

if gamma drain was open to him, Surfer would stomp this.

Nihilist
These two no marks are chumps to Surfer, he destroys them.

illadelph12
Originally posted by janus77
didn't you scream PIS at the idea of Hulk ripping matter and anti-matter apart? stick out tongue

Didn't Hulk resist the matter/anti-matter attraction effect itself (an explosive device was rigged to explode by having matter and anti-matter collide via their force of attraction)? I think that was the proper context of the feat (iirc), right?

janus77
Originally posted by Nihilist
These two no marks are chumps to Surfer, he destroys them.
breathe... now, count backwards from 10 smile

D_Dude1210
Originally posted by janus77
Surfer took Murungu (sp?) to the Astral Plane, I don't know of any character more powerful than Hulk.

He did it to a cosmic beast that was literally kicking his butt physically. He took it to the Astral Plane and easily took it down.

New Hulk has no feats that put him at the level you seem to keep implying him to be.

Originally posted by janus77
Hulk's reach and accuracy are a part of the character, if Thor can hit Surfer (which he shouldn't but he does) so can Hulk. not about to debate being able to hit him, so we can just agree to disagree on that no expression

Thor has flight and a flying FTL hammer that has unnerring accuracy. Hulk has neither.

Originally posted by janus77
as for the whole business of trapping Hulk in the board, again you really are underestimating the kind of strength Hulk has, he'd rip it to shreds. no calming or whatever.

You need to prove that one could use physical force to escape the board. It looked more like a transdimensional trapping, but w/e. My point was that the Surfer has a VAST array of ways to take down the Hulk w/o the use of physical force.

Originally posted by janus77
yes Surfer can affect emotions (he's done so worldwide), but he's never done so against Hulk and I have seen no feats of such manipulation against herald levellers. I doubt it'll work for the same reason Prof. X can't get at Hulk's mind.

He won't affect the Hulk immediately. But as the Hulk floats helplessly in space with little/no reason to be infuriated, he'll slowly succumb to it.

janus77
Originally posted by illadelph12
Didn't Hulk resist the matter/anti-matter attraction effect itself (an explosive device was rigged to explode by having matter and anti-matter collide via their force of attraction)? I think that was the proper context of the feat (iirc), right?
he physically ripped matter and anti-matter 'spheres' apart, then punched one of them away.

he also warped an energy field with his hands, deflected energy blasts with his hands ...

D_Dude1210
Originally posted by janus77
not really, that's pretty much what would happen. with the given stips.

do you have an argument that doesn't involve denying on-panel history and abilities?

Surfer's gonna tire before Hulk does, Surfer can be dazed by a glancing blow, which is all that Hulk would need for an opening.

if gamma drain was open to him, Surfer would stomp this.

So basically, your argument is, Hulk will what? Leap towards the Surfer (who is traveling at many times light speed many thousand feet above him) and somehow HIT him? :-/

Very weak argument there, buddy.

And what makes you think the Surfer would even get tired in this fight? I doubt that he'd even exert himself enough to get tired.

illadelph12
Originally posted by janus77
not really, that's pretty much what would happen. with the given stips.

do you have an argument that doesn't involve denying on-panel history and abilities?

Surfer's gonna tire before Hulk does, Surfer can be dazed by a glancing blow, which is all that Hulk would need for an opening.

if gamma drain was open to him, Surfer would stomp this.

Uh, not really. Surfer can fly and just cook something up from a distance, and even in close quarters he can just become intangible or microscopic and attack Hulk from inside. There's no reason whatsoever for Surfer to slug it out with Hulk in a non plot driven scenario.

illadelph12
Originally posted by janus77
he physically ripped matter and anti-matter 'spheres' apart, then punched one of them away.

he also warped an energy field with his hands, deflected energy blasts with his hands ...

Someone's going to have to post the scan. I'm pretty sure it was a device rigged to detonate by having matter and anti-matter collide via their attraction, and Hulk simply proved strong enough to overcome the force of the attraction and kept the substances from colliding.

Nihilist
Originally posted by janus77
breathe... now, count backwards from 10 smile Surfer already owned Skaar, current WWH needed saving from Skaar by Red She Hulk, hell WWH needed the warbound to help deal with Sentrys energy projection, Surfers EP shits all over Sentrys, in a non plot driven scenario neither can do anything to Surfer, he still has way to many option to win, oh wait i get it its a WWH thread, a automatic Hulks winswith nothing to back it up a usual.

janus77
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
He did it to a cosmic beast that was literally kicking his butt physically. He took it to the Astral Plane and easily took it down.

New Hulk has no feats that put him at the level you seem to keep implying him to be.



Thor has flight and a flying FTL hammer that has unnerring accuracy. Hulk has neither.



You need to prove that one could use physical force to escape the board. It looked more like a transdimensional trapping, but w/e. My point was that the Surfer has a VAST array of ways to take down the Hulk w/o the use of physical force.



He won't affect the Hulk immediately. But as the Hulk floats helplessly in space with little/no reason to be infuriated, he'll slowly succumb to it.
1. "New Hulk" is more powerful, not a radically different creature, so old Hulk feats apply, it just happens that there are plenty to work with.

2. the Hammer isn't the point, Thor can smack Surfer without it (he shouldn't be able to, but he does). I don't go about arguing that Thor has no business laying a hand on someone who has nano-second reaction times and moves at billions of multiples of C, I accept that these things happen and that somehow they do fight. as I said, we will disagree on this. on top of that, Hulk does have unerring accuracy and he has leapt and caught Surfer before, as he has other herald types (though much lower ones, like Jack of Hearts).

3. the board has been smashed plenty of times, even in the recent Thanos Imperative, a blast by the Cancerverse Marvell broke it to pieces. as for the transdimensional speculation - any foundation at all in that? Surfer seemed to be carrying Quasar inside the board.

4. you're supposing that Hulk won't be conscious of the fact that he's actually in a battle? how long do you expect them to be floating about? also, the second Surfer blasts Banner... he's dealing with a pissed off Hulk again. no expression

furthermore, you've got things like Hulk's ability to ThunderClap and to grab energy, which give him some purchase and range.

janus77
Originally posted by illadelph12
Someone's going to have to post the scan. I'm pretty sure it was a device rigged to detonate by having matter and anti-matter collide via their attraction, and Hulk simply proved strong enough to overcome the force of the attraction and kept the substances from colliding.
they were spheres, of anti-matter and matter. yes he overcame their attraction, but the point of it was that he can grab/punch/tear at energy.

janus77
Originally posted by illadelph12
Uh, not really. Surfer can fly and just cook something up from a distance, and even in close quarters he can just become intangible or microscopic and attack Hulk from inside. There's no reason whatsoever for Surfer to slug it out with Hulk in a non plot driven scenario.
going intangible would be a defensive option, going microscopic and then inside Hulk wouldn't help though. there's on-panel showings of him being just as durable/powerful internally, as he is externally.


the "cook something up" needs elaborating, I can't see anything convincing coming forth. Surfer could alter Banner's dna, I suppose, but that's iffy at best (as it's basically a higher level of matter manip).

janus77
Originally posted by Nihilist
Surfer already owned Skaar, current WWH needed saving from Skaar by Red She Hulk, hell WWH needed the warbound to help deal with Sentrys energy projection, Surfers EP shits all over Sentrys, in a non plot driven scenario neither can do anything to Surfer, he still has way to many option to win, oh wait i get it its a WWH thread, a automatic Hulks winswith nothing to back it up a usual.
lol... no expression

D_Dude1210
Originally posted by janus77
1. "New Hulk" is more powerful, not a radically different creature, so old Hulk feats apply, it just happens that there are plenty to work with.

New feats or old feats does not put him at the level you seem to be implying him to be.

Recent Surfer seems to be being placed to be considerably more durable/powerful than classic Surfer and even Classic Surfer was shrugging off Savage Hulk's best punches.

Originally posted by janus77
2. the Hammer isn't the point, Thor can smack Surfer without it (he shouldn't be able to, but he does). I don't go about arguing that Thor has no business laying a hand on someone who has nano-second reaction times and moves at billions of multiples of C, I accept that these things happen and that somehow they do fight. as I said, we will disagree on this. on top of that, Hulk does have unerring accuracy and he has leapt and caught Surfer before, as he has other herald types (though much lower ones, like Jack of Hearts).

In a forum fight, Thor WOULD be able to hit the Surfer because he is able attack at range and move at near the speeds the Surfer can. Even then, within the forums, Thor hitting the Surfer with anything other than a hammer throw or ranged energy attack would have to be debatable as Surfer has proven to be the far faster of the two and forum rules state that the character will fight at the best of his abilities (other than CIS).

Hulk, however, will not only NEED to be smart enough to compute his velocity vs that of the Surfer's in order to predict a leap that will intercept him, he will THEN need Surfer to NOT REACT to his leap or alter his heading. :-/

In a forum fight, this will simply not be the case.

Originally posted by janus77
3. the board has been smashed plenty of times, even in the recent Thanos Imperative, a blast by the Cancerverse Marvell broke it to pieces. as for the transdimensional speculation - any foundation at all in that? Surfer seemed to be carrying Quasar inside the board.

My point was the plethora of options available to the Surfer. :-/

Originally posted by janus77
4. you're supposing that Hulk won't be conscious of the fact that he's actually in a battle? how long do you expect them to be floating about? also, the second Surfer blasts Banner... he's dealing with a pissed off Hulk again. no expression

There is no duration to the fights here, it could last for as long as it needs to. Surfer just needs to wait for his "calming powers" to affect the Hulk and turn him back to banner.

Once he's Banner, Surfer uses his PC to let Banner sleep for the win.

Originally posted by janus77
furthermore, you've got things like Hulk's ability to ThunderClap and to grab energy, which give him some purchase and range.

Thunderclap someone that's thousands of feet away moving at far faster than any air wave may be able to travel regardless of the force applied to it?? Or is there some kind of FTL pressure wave out there that I'm not aware of?

Or are you saying he's gonna somehow grab hold onto Surfer's energy blasts, climb up on it and THEN hit Surfer in the jaw or something....?

Wow. That's Loeb level writing/logic right there.... O_o

Nihilist
Originally posted by janus77
lol... no expression Shutting up Hulk tards like you easy.

janus77
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
New feats or old feats does not put him at the level you seem to be implying him to be.

Recent Surfer seems to be being placed to be considerably more durable/powerful than classic Surfer and even Classic Surfer was shrugging off Savage Hulk's best punches.
and classic Surfer wouldn't be able to slug it out with Savage Hulk indefinitely either, which is why he either attempts to calm him down or to gamma drain him.

yes Current Surfer is a lot more powerful, determined and durable, Annihilation hinted at "Thanos level" power output.

but that doesn't mean he can take on Hulk in what is essentially going to descend into H2H. Hell, you have Savage Hulk outright over powering Thor and it being admitted that it takes Thor + Mjolnir to match up... so I just don't see Surfer being beyond Hulk, when it comes to H2H (obviously I don't see it being a quick fight).

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
In a forum fight, Thor WOULD be able to hit the Surfer because he is able attack at range and move at near the speeds the Surfer can. Even then, within the forums, Thor hitting the Surfer with anything other than a hammer throw or ranged energy attack would have to be debatable as Surfer has proven to be the far faster of the two and forum rules state that the character will fight at the best of his abilities (other than CIS).

Hulk, however, will not only NEED to be smart enough to compute his velocity vs that of the Surfer's in order to predict a leap that will intercept him, he will need Surfer to NOT REACT to his leap. :-/

In a forum fight, this will simply not be the case.
apparently Hulk's fast enough to catch Sentry with a fist to the face, as he comes in for a bullrush no expression it shouldn't happen, but Surfer does get tagged by inferior opponents. it would be a no contest if he operated in fights like he does in space against armadas (or in the microverse against computer signals). I just don't consider it worth debating. this is meant to be a fight, they have a history of tagging each other, go on from there. or else just declare any match up between Thor and Surfer PIS (because Surfer is billions of times faster than Mjolnir so that should never touch him at all).


Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Thunderclap someone that's thousands of feet away moving at far faster than any kind air wave may be able to travel regardless of the force applied to it??

Or are you saying he's gonna somehow grab hold onto Surfer's energy blasts, climb up on it and THEN hit Surfer in the jaw or something....?

Wow. That's Loeb level writing/logic right there.... O_o

Thousands of feet? sure he can (and has) affect such a distance. his energy fields spread across miles, his thunderclaps are powerful enough to deflect dimension destroying blasts and to floor Thor and other Avengers from a distance.

this is all pre-Loeb, not his fault you have preconceptions about what the character can and can't do, that are radically lower than Marvel's depictions no expression.

janus77
Originally posted by Nihilist
Shutting up Hulk tards like you easy.
lol, how old are you?

you realise I actually respond to points (whether you agree with me or not) if they're made in the spirit of debate.

your infantile angry outbursts just end up looking ... well, infantile really no expression.

illadelph12
I agree;

Surfer is billions of times faster than Mjolnir. It shouldn't catch him. stick out tongue

Nihilist
Originally posted by janus77
lol, how old are you?

you realise I actually respond to points (whether you agree with me or not) if they're made in the spirit of debate.

your infantile angry outbursts just end up looking ... well, infantile really no expression. You never counter anything at all, its just WWH wins he becomes stronger than them..the end, hell you constantly get mocked for your pro Hulk argument, even in this thread for instance.

janus77
Originally posted by illadelph12
I agree;

Surfer is billions of times faster than Mjolnir. It shouldn't catch him. stick out tongue
next time there's a Thor v Surfer thread... evil face
I gave up trying to even hint at the staggering disparity in speeds between these two, or the fact that Classic Surfer has casually dodged Mjolnir ... people just don't accept that argument here no expression.

illadelph12
People will accept whatever supports their dog in the fight, and call anything else PIS.

The paradox is that EVERYTHING that occurs in comics is PIS because every action is part of a plotted story, and the forum is supposed to be a Plot Free environment.

janus77
Originally posted by Nihilist
You never counter anything at all, its just WWH wins he becomes stronger than them..the end, hell you constantly get mocked for your pro Hulk argument, even in this thread for instance.
you throwing around insults =/= "mocked".
I doubt you have either the skill or the patience, given the seething anger that your 'replies' are filled with.


just calm down, these are flippin' comics we're discussing no expression.

janus77
Originally posted by illadelph12
People will accept whatever supports their dog in the fight, and call anything else PIS.

The paradox is that EVERYTHING that occurs in comics is PIS because every action is part of a plotted story, and the forum is supposed to be a Plot Free environment.
true, but that would unravel KMC versus thread and that way lies madness and a return to 'debates' on Intelligent Design and Dawkins' poor grasp of religion sad

I rather like the escapism of comics.

Nihilist
Originally posted by janus77
you throwing around insults =/= "mocked".
I doubt you have either the skill or the patience, given the seething anger that your 'replies' are filled with.


just calm down, these are flippin' comics we're discussing no expression. Anger lol, its pity for the likes of you, ive owned in every WWH related thread youve posted in with you one track argument. After a while you always resort to being whiny ass claiming "oh your insulting" when you do the same thing when someone says WWH/Hulk doesnt win.

The Nuul
Hulk fanboys are all the same.

janus77
Originally posted by Nihilist
Anger lol, its pity for the likes of you, ive owned in every WWH related thread youve posted in with you one track argument. After a while you always resort to being whiny ass claiming "oh your insulting" when you do the same thing when someone says WWH/Hulk doesnt win.
no, I only resort to mocking when I'm bored.

your conception of owned is pretty much as grounded in reality as the comics we're discussing. I do hope you know that, that these comics and characters aren't real. right?

janus77
Originally posted by The Nuul
Hulk fanboys are all the same.
ah!

I was wondering when the other one would drop... are you the left one or is he?

Nihilist
Originally posted by janus77
no, I only resort to mocking when I'm bored.

your conception of owned is pretty much as grounded in reality as the comics we're discussing. I do hope you know that, that these comics and characters aren't real. right? So you being bored=loosing the debate.

LMFAO coming from the boy that has a hissy fit when posters dont agree that Hulk wins.

D_Dude1210
Originally posted by janus77
and classic Surfer wouldn't be able to slug it out with Savage Hulk indefinitely either, which is why he either attempts to calm him down or to gamma drain him.

There is no proof that Surfer couldn't slug it out with Savage Hulk. The only thing the scene proved was that the Surfer could tank Savage's Hulks hits easily and could drain him of his Gamma energies. Anything else is speculation.

He only used weakness exploit cuz that's basically what he does and it IS far more convenient.

Originally posted by janus77
yes Current Surfer is a lot more powerful, determined and durable, Annihilation hinted at "Thanos level" power output.

but that doesn't mean he can take on Hulk in what is essentially going to descend into H2H. Hell, you have Savage Hulk outright over powering Thor and it being admitted that it takes Thor + Mjolnir to match up... so I just don't see Surfer being beyond Hulk, when it comes to H2H (obviously I don't see it being a quick fight).

Why the hell is it going to descend into H2H?? :-/ Let's get one thing straight. This ISN'T going to go H2H. Surfer is prolly just going to weakness exploit Hulk or simply use like any of the hundred OTHER non-retarded options available to him. :-/

Originally posted by janus77
apparently Hulk's fast enough to catch Sentry with a fist to the face, as he comes in for a bullrush no expression it shouldn't happen, but Surfer does get tagged by inferior opponents. it would be a no contest if he operated in fights like he does in space against armadas (or in the microverse against computer signals). I just don't consider it worth debating. this is meant to be a fight, they have a history of tagging each other, go on from there. or else just declare any match up between Thor and Surfer PIS (because Surfer is billions of times faster than Mjolnir so that should never touch him at all).

Sentry fought him H2H. Surfer will not. Thor tags the Surfer because he has other options OTHER than H2H and he can fly. Hulk does not. Why are you having trouble grasping this idea?

Originally posted by janus77
Thousands of feet? sure he can (and has) affect such a distance. his energy fields spread across miles, his thunderclaps are powerful enough to deflect dimension destroying blasts and to floor Thor and other Avengers from a distance.

You seem to miss the part about Surfer moving away from the thunderclap while this happens. :-/

Originally posted by janus77
this is all pre-Loeb, not his fault you have preconceptions about what the character can and can't do, that are radically lower than Marvel's depictions no expression.

I'm not the one with the preconceptions, you are. The only feat current Hulk has to his name is thunderclapping Red Hulk and you seem to be already placing him at Sub-Skyfather levels. Sigh.

And btw. This is WWH. Not current Hulk. Different arcs, different power levels.

Heck, here's a step-by-step way the Surfer can win w/o breaking a sweat:

Step 1. Surfer flies to the upper atmosphere.
Step 2. Surfer turns himself intangible and invisible.
Step 3. Surfer slowly uses his PC to calm Hulk's rage.
Step 4. Hulk reverts to Banner.
Step 5. Surfer uses his PC to switch off Banner's mind and make him sleep.
Step 6. Win.

Skaar is a nonfactor here.

Badabing
I don't know what the problem is but everyone needs to calm down.

And people don't get to use a character as they see fit. Debates have to fit within a combatants character profile and feats must be backed by on panel evidence.

There's too much of "character A will use option B" right at the get go or "character A has power set C" when it's not in the character's personality or shown anywhere panel.

illadelph12
Don Bada Brasi, I find your sig amusing.

psycho gundam
i don't

i threw a shoe at my screen

illadelph12
I bet he dodged it like he did that shoe from the Iraqi reporter.

Dubya has metahuman reflexes, and sub-human intellect.

He's like "Decider Hulk". stick out tongue

Badabing
Originally posted by illadelph12
Don Bada Brasi, I find your sig amusing. Original G Dubya would make an excellent addition to Zod's forces. durbyaOriginally posted by psycho gundam
i don't

i threw a shoe at my screen Gooood...gooood. biscuits

psycho gundam
uhuh

dmills
Originally posted by Nihilist
So you being bored=loosing the debate.

LMFAO coming from the boy that has a hissy fit when posters dont agree that Hulk wins. laughing out loud Be nice Nihilist.

dmills
Originally posted by Badabing
Original G Dubya would make an excellent addition to Zod's forces. durbya Gooood...gooood. biscuits laughingI'm not quite there, but I just got laid off so I'm warming up to it lol!

The Nuul
Originally posted by dmills
laughingI'm not quite there, but I just got laid off so I'm warming up to it lol!

I am getting laid off at the end of this month.

dmills
Originally posted by The Nuul
I am getting laid off at the end of this month. Well from all of us gainfully UNemployed to you, welcome to the family!

The Nuul
Originally posted by dmills
Well from all of us gainfully UNemployed to you, welcome to the family!

BACK to school and even a shittier job to get me through.

dmills
Originally posted by The Nuul
BACK to school and even a shittier job to get me through. Methinks I shall return to school also, maybe pick up a new trade. I hear the occupation of Dental Hygienist is rapidly growing.

The Nuul
Lets take this to the OTF.

abhilegend
Bump.

Genii96
Surfer blows the planet and watches as father and son drift helplessly in space

Damborgson
He could beat them individually, or if he fought out of character. Not together though, not with standard surfer who gets far too close to his enemies. He'll end up with an old power sword in his chest.

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