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Whose faster?

surfer

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
surfer

Can't the Flash appear in two places at once?

Also, doesn't the SS have to enter hyperspace in order to travel really fast? So he has no combat speed.

No.

Surfer is faster, nice bait thread though.

talkin about bait that avatar screams it.

No it doesn't. It's legit.

maybe in your state and country still bait to others.

can a mod lock this and banned the poster?!!

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
No.

Surfer is faster, nice bait thread though.

You haven't really offered any evidence for your claim.

Originally posted by King Castle
maybe in your state and country still bait to others.

can a mod lock this and banned the poster?!! No, it's cool. Don't worry about it.

Originally posted by keiththegreat
You haven't really offered any evidence for your claim. Ironic.

Surfer wins. This has been done before. Bait thread. And likely a sock. But it should mostly be closed because Surfer is too fast for Flash.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
No, it's cool. Don't worry about it.

Ironic.

Surfer wins. This has been done before. Bait thread. And likely a sock. But it should mostly be closed because Surfer is too fast for Flash.

Well, I have no idea how its a "bait thread" more than any other vs debate. If you don't want to debate it, then don't check it. I've never seen any impressive feats of combat speed from the SS. Ever. I've seen the Flash appear in two places at once.

Show me any speed feat from SS that matches this:

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0810/kryptonite-superman-kryptonite-pedo-jimmy-olsen-demotivational-poster-1223181110.jpg

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0810/kryptonite-superman-kryptonite-pedo-jimmy-olsen-demotivational-poster-1223181110.jpg

Originally posted by keiththegreat
Show me any speed feat from SS that matches this:

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0810/kryptonite-superman-kryptonite-pedo-jimmy-olsen-demotivational-poster-1223181110.jpg

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0810/kryptonite-superman-kryptonite-pedo-jimmy-olsen-demotivational-poster-1223181110.jpg Surfer isn't a pedo. Pretty fast of Flash though.

dude you are banned by the end of the day... you can quote me.

we only tolerate old trolls and baiters like blanket not new sock baiters.

lol at this thread , flash is faster

maybe at putting his pants on not in a race.

FLASHHHH!

Originally posted by King Castle
dude you are banned by the end of the day... you can quote me.

we only tolerate old trolls and baiters like blanket not new sock baiters.

If i got banned for posted a vs debate then so be it. maybe instead of posting about my imminent banning, hoiw about post something relevant to the topic before I get banned and can't see it?

flash was two places at once and fighting people while each one of him had different costumes
meaning he is switching back and fourth through clothes

show me surfer doing some shit like that.

Originally posted by keiththegreat
Also, doesn't the SS have to enter hyperspace in order to travel really fast? So he has no combat speed.
Nope, he's surpassed lightspeed without entering hyperspace.

Originally posted by keiththegreat
Well, I have no idea how its a "bait thread" more than any other vs debate. If you don't want to debate it, then don't check it. I've never seen any impressive feats of combat speed from the SS. Ever. I've seen the Flash appear in two places at once.
You should look in his respect thread. On the first page there's actually a portion of the "speed" section devoted to feats other than the typical "lightyears in moments" traveling feats we see from him.

Flash still has that insane 13 trillion times lightspeed feat.

is that the stupid nerd real life science tryin to explain his power and feat? 33

-PvwtS0htyk

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Flash still has that insane 13 trillion times lightspeed feat.

More than that, I think.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
More than that, I think. When he rescued the city? It was roughly that.

so why is it he always talks about needing an extra boost to pass ftl?

its poor science and knowledge of characters..

he is seen doing that to show how fast he is it is not meant to be taken as a real world physics explanation..

hence, as fast as he runs he is unable to fight zoom on equal terms and needed to harness other speedsters speed to boost himself to Zooms lvl of time manipulation speed.

also their is the amazo fight where he commented at his lvl of speed himself.

i hate when ppl try to use real world science to add to a comic feat,.

Originally posted by King Castle
so why is it he always talks about needing an extra post to pass ftl?

its poor science and knowledge of characters..

he is seen doing that to show how fast he is it is not meant to be taken as a real world physics explanation..

hence, as fast as he runs he is unable to fight zoom on equal terms and needed to harness other speedsters speed to boost himself to Zooms lvl of time manipulation speed.

also their is the amazo fight where he commented at his lvl of speed himself.

i hate when ppl try to use real world science to add to a comic feat,. Real world science? What the hell are you talking about, he said what he did and I simply posted what he said. He has done many multi-light speed feats. Regardless if it was intentional or not he still did it. Actions always beat words. If I pick up a 40lb weight and say it is 20 lbs, what matters more, what I said or what I actually did. Lol at Flash barely going more than light speed if that.

Zoom has a totally different paradoxial powerset altogether and he still needed to be amped to stand a chance. Oh and I was just saying that tongue and cheek, and furthermore comics do have grounding in the "real world" unless there are parts that simply don't apply. If a character needs air to breathe they won't be in space without some type of air support right?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Real world science? What the hell are you talking about, he said what he did and I simply posted what he said. He has done many multi-light speed feats. Regardless if it was intentional or not he still did it. Actions always beat words. If I pick up a 40lb weight and say it is 20 lbs, what matters more, what I said or what I actually did. Lol at Flash barely going more than light speed if that.

Zoom has a totally different powerset altogether and he still needed to be amped to stand a chance. Oh and I was just saying that tongue and cheek, and furthermore comics do have grounding in the "real world" unless there are parts that simply don't apply. If a character needs air to breathe they won't be in space without some type of air support right? But the caption of the stroyline with teh nuclear bomb says he was just under lighstpeed. That's what the writer wanted, he just didnt know any better.

wish i still had that "scan" of batman with only half a space helmet.

Originally posted by 753
But the caption of the stroyline with teh nuclear bomb says he was just under lighstpeed. That's what the writer wanted, he just didnt know any better. thats the same as a writer saying in an interview what he meant. that doesnt count. what counts is the feats shown on panel.

so i guess flash can now breath in space and get traction b/c it was what he did?

every time we use on panel for why A character can beat or hurt a B character ppl scream PIS!! to protect their character b/c we know powersets regardless of what is shown on panel..

do we think Cap is a 100+ or should be able to hurt hulk, thor or supes in a forum fight? of course not it is silly. we do try to draw the line on disbelieve in forum fights.

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
thats the same as a writer saying in an interview what he meant. that doesnt count. what counts is the feats shown on panel. Pretty much. If Flash did it, where is the argument at?


Not only that, but if he were only going "just under light speed" he wouldn't have rescued anybody.Originally posted by King Castle
so i guess flash can now breath in space and get traction b/c it was what he did?

every time we use on panel for why A character can beat or hurt a B character ppl scream PIS!! to protect their character b/c we know powersets regardless of what is shown on panel..

do we think Cap is a 100+ or should be able to hurt hulk or supes in a forum fight? of course not it is silly. we do try the line on disbelieve in forum fights. Which would matter more if this was a matchup in question, it is just an "effort" feat, like a strength feat, and it isn't even his fastest feat.

Can you post the scan of the trillions of times light speed pls? Can't find it in the respect thread....

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
thats the same as a writer saying in an interview what he meant. that doesnt count. what counts is the feats shown on panel. It is not the same, the caption was on panel and it's part of the stroy. Ignoring actual story narration is different from ignoring what authors say in interviews.

Besides, arriving at the 13 trillion c figure requires an extrapolation that has nothing to do with the story and uses real world physics. The story itself says he didn't go beyond lightspeed to do that.

Originally posted by 753
It is not the same, the caption was on panel and it's part of the stroy. Ignoring actual story narration is different from ignoring what authors say in interviews.

Besides, arriving at the 13 trillion c figure requires an extrapolation that has nothing to do with the story and uses real world physics. The story itself says he didn't go beyond lightspeed to do that.

Because he wouldn't have rescued one person if he was.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Pretty much. If Flash did it, where is the argument at?


Not only that, but if he were only going "just under light speed" he wouldn't have rescued anybody. Which would matter more if this was a matchup in question, it is just an "effort" feat, like a strength feat, and it isn't even his fastest feat. If he was doing it in the real world you mean? Yeah, then he wouldnt rescue anyone. In the confines of his fictional narrative 'just under lightspeed' is enough.

unless you are to assume that the dcverse uses insanely different science laws than our 'verse you really cant take the narration as true. what he did was just not possible at that speed

its the same as when ppl reach the end of the universe at light speed... which is his only known defined power... we know writers messed up or have poor science background b/c next page he is struggling to keep up with a laser beam at his fasted speed effort...

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Flash still has that insane 13 trillion times lightspeed feat.
Near lightspeed you mean, the exact wording during the feat makes it kinda unarguable... If the author says that the mountain weighs 100 tons then that's what it weighs regardless of the fact that a real mountain of the same relative size would weigh billions of tons.

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
unless you are to assume that the dcverse uses insanely different science laws than our 'verse you really cant take the narration as true. what he did was just not possible at that speed Unless I am to assume? It obviously does.

Originally posted by 753
If he was doing it in the real world you mean? Yeah, then he wouldnt rescue anyone. In the confines of his fictional narrative 'just under lightspeed' is enough. No, if you simply divide the number he rescued by 13 trillion you wouldn't even have a whole number.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Near lightspeed you mean, the exact wording during the feat makes it kinda unarguable... so the speed of light is different in DC.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
No, if you simply divide the number he rescued by 13 trillion you wouldn't even have a whole number. Like I said, your extrapolation is irrelevant. It doesnt have to make sense according to real world laws. Comics "physics" change from one panel to the next. All superpowers violate laws of physics anyway.

This thread is moving too fast.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Can you post the scan of the trillions of times light speed pls? Can't find it in the respect thread.... I'll repost the math here.


He traveled a distance of 70 miles carrying 1 person sometimes two, so let's say he carried 1.5 people each time. Which means he travelled 70 miles 354,667 times. (Half a million people). That makes 24,826,690 miles. He does that in .00001 MICROSECONDS, that is 10^(-11) seconds.

That means he was travelling 2,482,669,000,000,000,000 mps, or about 2.5 quintillion miles per second. That is approximately 13 trillion times the speed of light. Holy shit.
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f299/Cjm1001/Comics/theflashisreallyfingfast-1.jpg

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
so the speed of light is different in DC. the mechanics of the whole thing in their universe certainly are.

Originally posted by 753
Like I said, your extrapolation is irrelevant. It doesnt have to make sense according to real world laws. Comics "physics" change from one panel to the next. All superpowers violate laws of physics anyway. Well now you would have to prove the speed of light is different in DC and debunk thousands or arguments throughout the debates in KMC.

This isn't a "slightly different" amount we're talking about here, this is a vastly different amount. Lightspeed is lightspeed, 100lbs is 100lbs. If someone proves that lightspeed is suddenly different (especially considering the feats they do and the scientific explanations for light speed, I'll concede my point).

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Well now you would have to prove the speed of light is different in DC and debunk thousands or arguments throughout the debates in KMC.

This isn't a "slightly different" amount we're talking about here, this is a vastly different amount. Lightspeed is lightspeed, 100lbs is 100lbs. If someone proves that lightspeed is suddenly different (especially considering the feats they do and the scientific explanations for light speed, I'll concede my point). Not really, even if lightspeed is the same, their world doesnt work like ours and there is no consistancy to its mechanics. The point is that these math extrapolations are futile because this is obvioulsy a **** up by the writer and the math doesn't refute the actual story, which as far as these debates are concerned is the word of god itself.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
This thread is moving too fast.

I'll repost the math here.


He traveled a distance of 70 miles carrying 1 person sometimes two, so let's say he carried 1.5 people each time. Which means he travelled 70 miles 354,667 times. (Half a million people). That makes 24,826,690 miles. He does that in .00001 MICROSECONDS, that is 10^(-11) seconds.

That means he was travelling 2,482,669,000,000,000,000 mps, or about 2.5 quintillion miles per second. That is approximately 13 trillion times the speed of light. Holy shit.
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f299/Cjm1001/Comics/theflashisreallyfingfast-1.jpg The writer clearly didn't have a calculator... But his intention was Wally moving slower than light speed.

It's safe to say Wally can be beyond light speed but on average he is just a tad faster than light speed clearly not 13 trillions times light speed.

sorry dude, the burden of proof is on you

I say otherwise. It's impossible to refute the narration and real world physics are irrelevant for this.

Originally posted by kgkg
The writer clearly didn't have a calculator... But his intention was Wally moving slower than light speed.

It's safe to say Wally can be beyond light speed but on average he is just a tad faster than light speed clearly not 13 trillions times light speed. Hey I didn't say I thought it wasn't a crazy feat. It is. I was simply saying he did it and it isn't his best feat.

My whole point was that he did move 2.5 quintillion miles per second. Maybe we'll have to start calling it something else besides lightspeed. Since 2.5 quintillion miles per second is the new lightspeed lol.

Don't get me wrong here, I think it is a nuts feat. <----

Which is why I was tongue and cheek about it.

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
so the speed of light is different in DC. only that the speed of light isnt very consistent...

one second the speed of light is only as fast as the laser being raced next it is fast enough to reach another planet in a matter of seconds..

next ppl think flash once in the FTL moment can amplify it further by moving his hands and feet at FTL apart from his already moving at ftl.. that is insane and impossible...

next, once some one else reaches faster then light both are at normal speed and its just two guys fighting without speed powers..

then in another moment flash states he can only reach FTL speed any attempt to go further causes him to go into the speed field a dimensional aperture.

next you have him stating that in order to fight guys like zoom he needs to "speed up" to within the tick of a tock where zoom resides.
in order to compensate zooms temporal manipulation powers and circumvent it if not simulate it with his speed..

which again means he needs to go just a lil above faster then light or double or whatever..


also in another scan you have him again state he can only go at ftl speed and requires outside assistance to supersedes it using gadgets like giant hamster wheels...


again flash was never intended to move beyond light speed let alone FTL squared or anything that retarted on his own.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Hey I didn't say I thought it wasn't a crazy feat. It is. I was simply saying he did it and it isn't his best feat.

My whole point was that he did move 2.5 quintillion miles per second. Maybe we'll have to start calling it something else besides lightspeed. Since 2.5 quintillion miles per second is the new lightspeed lol.

Don't get me wrong here, I think it is a nuts feat. <----

Which is why I was tongue and cheek about it. Ya he does have some insane feats when it comes to speed he is the Flash after-all.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Well now you would have to prove the speed of light is different in DC and debunk thousands or arguments throughout the debates in KMC.

This isn't a "slightly different" amount we're talking about here, this is a vastly different amount. Lightspeed is lightspeed, 100lbs is 100lbs. If someone proves that lightspeed is suddenly different (especially considering the feats they do and the scientific explanations for light speed, I'll concede my point).
Dude what you're saying would make sense if comics were pillars of consistancy, but I think we can agree that they're far from it. Little inconsistancies and outright major error's happen all the time, that's why sometimes you just got to ignore the stuff that doesn't make sense. He did the feat at sub light speed, it was outright stated on panel.

That's not to say that Flash doesn't have feats were he far surpasses the speed of light, but this one doesn't qualify as such.

Originally posted by 753
I say otherwise. It's impossible to refute the narration and real world physics are irrelevant for this. So if a book says it's impossible, or if Wolverine says it's impossible for him to slice the Hulk, after he has done it, we should believe he cant?

I mean isn't this the reason that handbooks and "stats" aren't allowed in the first place.

Wolverine is now a peak human again who cannot truly regenerate.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
When he rescued the city? It was roughly that.

Oh, I was just talking about him in general. The city feat was crazy.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Dude what you're saying would make sense if comics were pillars of consistancy, but I think we can agree that they're far from it. Little inconsistancies and outright major error's happen all the time, that's why sometimes you just got to ignore the stuff that doesn't make sense. He did the feat at sub light speed, it was outright stated on panel.

That's not to say that Flash doesn't have feats were he far surpasses the speed of light, but this one doesn't qualify as such. Hey like I said it is a crazy feat, but he still did it. Furthermore he does have some crazier feats like going -1 (if I remember correctly) and making duplicates of himself.

Originally I was pointing it out tongue and cheek but some people "coughkingcastlecough" made a huge ordeal about it. It's not something I generally regularly bring up anyways. It was unintentional/intentional I'm sure, but it did happen. But honestly the fact that the writer didn't bother checking something that absurd makes it more the reason it should count. Since he just wrote something down.

But I still stand by my point that what happens goes over what was said, in real life and in comics. You know I respect your opinion though.

Originally posted by 753
Not really, even if lightspeed is the same, their world doesnt work like ours and there is no consistancy to its mechanics. The point is that these math extrapolations are futile because this is obvioulsy a **** up by the writer and the math doesn't refute the actual story, which as far as these debates are concerned is the word of god itself.

You cannot prove its a **** up by the writer unless he states his intention as being clearly different than what C-Master's calculations have given us, all we can do is take the figures we have at face-value and realize they are what they are supposed to be.

Simply saying 'mechanics are different' is too vague to mean a damn thing really. HOW are they different? What is causing flash's feat here to not be what it realistically would be? Light speed is meant to be Light Speed. Mileage is Mileage, and more specifically microsecond figures are microsecond figures.

Math doesn't refute the story sure, but we don't even know if there's a case to refute in the first place. Unless we present C-Master's trillions times lightspeed or whatever it was figure to the writer and the writer clearly repeals details of the comic on the case that C-Master's figure is not what he had intended for the feat, then its valid.

The point of calcs is to compare feats where visually alone it is impossible to make an exact judgement call.

EDIT: LOL never mind I recant this post. It clearly says his intention was for it be just short of speed of light. Anyway, **** that writer for being so damn stupid.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Hey like I said it is a crazy feat, but he still did it. Furthermore he does have some crazier feats like going -1 (if I remember correctly) and making duplicates of himself.

Originally I was pointing it out tongue and cheek but some people "coughkingcastlecough" made a huge ordeal about it. It's not something I generally regularly bring up anyways. It was unintentional I'm sure, but it did happen. But honestly the fact that the writer didn't bother checking something that absurd makes it more the reason it should count. Since he just wrote something down.

But I still stand by my point that what happens goes over what was said, in real life and in comics. You know I respect your opinion though.
Oh he definately did it... but he did it at sub light speed .

By the same token if the narration says that a character like the Vision amps his density to the point that he weighs 90 tons in order to become immovable during a fight, we don't go grab calculators when he's then unmoved by a punch from someone like Thor to figure out how much he would have to weigh in order for him to tank the punch and say that our result supercede's the author's intent.

then you take the feat as flash being fast enough to empty a city b4 the nuke incinerated everything..

you dont add any real life science to the feat but, you dont take anything either..

you shouldnt be translating one feat and saying look he did this so that means he can cross the universe in a second or two. dont state anything unless you have the feat to back it up and not use transference of feats for a feat the character does not have.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Hey like I said it is a crazy feat, but he still did it. Furthermore he does have some crazier feats like going -1 (if I remember correctly) and making duplicates of himself.

Originally I was pointing it out tongue and cheek but some people "coughkingcastlecough" made a huge ordeal about it. It's not something I generally regularly bring up anyways. It was unintentional/intentional I'm sure, but it did happen. But honestly the fact that the writer didn't bother checking something that absurd makes it more the reason it should count. Since he just wrote something down.

But I still stand by my point that what happens goes over what was said, in real life and in comics. You know I respect your opinion though.

Like when he was at 2 places at one time?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Oh he definately did it... but he did it at sub light speed .

By the same token if the narration says that a character like the Vision amps his density to the point that he weighs 90 tons in order to become immovable in a fight, we don't go grab calculators when he's then unmoved by a punch from someone like Thor to figure out how much he would have to weigh in order for him to tank the punch and say that our result supercede's the author's intent. I see where you're coming from and I'm not so much just dismissing your side, as I just don't fully agree.

If character A is protrayed in a feat to lift a *massive* boulder that is threatening to flatten a city, and then the writer portrays the character to say "I'm lifting this 100lb rock" when the rock was calculated to be heavy enough to flatten houses. What would you say was the writers intent? Was it an error in math, or did they simply mean to draw a smaller rock?

Obviously the author meant for Flash to do that feat, and specifically said the numbers. So he moved at 2.5 quintillion miles per second, whether you want to call it light speed is up to you and anyone else. He had to. Mainly because if he was only moving light speed:

1. He would have rescued one person, if that, and
2. The particles from those types of bombs move at light speed or more.

So he did move 2.5 quintillion miles a second, maybe it was sub light speed to Flash because he is that good, he still did it. *shrugs*

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Like when he was at 2 places at one time? Pretty much, this isn't the only insane feat he has like this isn't some "one time" thing. It's not even his craziest feat.

this is what you get when you try to calculate and give real world physics to comic feats..

Q1tGMlsoWgQ&feature=related

it just becomes irrational.. just take the feat for what it is present it in your argument : A my guy hits this hard and runs this fast, that is it. dont try to explain how its possible..

wally knocks surfer off the board. flash wins

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Pretty much, this isn't the only insane feat he has like this isn't some "one time" thing. It's not even his craziest feat.

Pretty much.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Pretty much, this isn't the only insane feat he has like this isn't some "one time" thing. It's not even his craziest feat. With beyond light speed you can easily make it seem to be in more place that one.

Out of curiosity which other feats he has thats are better than this one?

I remember Flash beating teleportation feat but I'm pretty sure he had major amp in that one.

Originally posted by King Castle
this is what you get when you try to calculate and give real world physics to comic feats..

Q1tGMlsoWgQ&feature=related

it just becomes irrational.. just take the feat for what it is present it in your argument : A my guy hits this hard and runs this fast, that is it. dont try to explain how its possible.. Tell that to the writer.

Originally posted by kgkg
With beyond light speed you can easily make it seem to be in more place that one.

Out of curiosity which other feats he has thats are better than this one?

I remember Flash beating teleportation feat but I'm pretty sure he had major amp in that one. True, but didn't he make a duplicate?

The Surfer for arguments sake moves faster than the Flash is what I'm guessing. Norrin has, on at least a couple of occasions traveled through time because he was moving so fast. Here's a question, what happens when the Surfer grabs him by the neck and takes him into space? Does he win?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I see where you're coming from and I'm not so much just dismissing your side, as I just don't fully agree.

If character A is protrayed in a feat to lift a *massive* boulder that is threatening to flatten a city, and then the writer portrays the character to say "I'm lifting this 100lb rock" when the rock was calculated to be heavy enough to flatten houses. What would you say was the writers intent? Was it an error in math, or did they simply mean to draw a smaller rock?

Obviously the author meant for Flash to do that feat, and specifically said the numbers. So he moved at 2.5 quintillion miles per second, whether you want to call it light speed is up to you and anyone else. He had to. Mainly because if he was only moving light speed:

1. He would have rescued one person, if that, and
2. The particles from those types of bombs move at light speed or more.

So he did move 2.5 quintillion miles a second, maybe it was sub light speed to Flash because he is that good, he still did it. *shrugs*
Yeah but your 100lb rock example goes right in hand with my example of the Vision. Do we take the author's word for the fact that he weighs 90 tons when he's unmoved by Thor's punch or do we grab a calculator and figure out how much he'd actually have to weigh to be unmoved by Thor's punch?

I mean yeah he obviously wanted Flash to be able to do the feat, but he also obviously wanted Flash to be able to do it while going at sub light speed. It doesn't mean that we redefine the speed of light for the DC universe(especially since's it's been stated on panel any number of times now), it means we throw the feat out as bad writing just like we do other feats of bad writing. And let's face it, such a glaring inconsistency pretty much proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the feat falls into that category...

i will concede that overall flash is faster at responding as stimuli and dressing himself...

SS can only use FTl reflexive defense which is not enough to block or counter every punch Flash throws but, he does have durability to compensate. example when he fought the runner...the runner fights and runs ala flash even has similar blur art and multiple overlapping art.


SS kept up with him both visually and reaction wise.. now SS does need the board to move at FTL in a race but not to see or react.

another SS can step out of time which screws flash over if we take how he stacks to Zoom...

SS at his fasted traverses galaxies and if he does it without goin into hyper space once he exceeds ftl he starts to warp space.. hence why goes into hyperspace to not cause havok to the enviroment.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah but your 100lb rock example goes right in hand with my example of the Vision. Do we take the author's word for the fact that he weighs 90 tons when he's unmoved by Thor's punch or do we grab a calculator and figure out how much he'd actually have to weigh to be unmoved by Thor's punch?

I mean yeah he obviously wanted Flash to be able to do the feat, but he also obviously wanted Flash to be able to do it while going at sub light speed. It doesn't mean that we redefine the speed of light for the DC universe(especially since's it's been stated on panel any number of times now), it means we throw the feat out as bad writing just like we do other feats of bad writing. And let's face it, such a glaring inconsistency pretty much proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the feat falls into that category... Not quite though because we'd know he would have to way much more than that. This isn't really guesswork.

He said he did a specific feat, point by point. This isn't a slight miscalculation. If he moved at sub light speed the feat wouldn't be at all possible. He wouldn't rescue anybody. Of course here and in real life, what someone actually did means more than what they said. If I say I'm sleeping when I'm typing this to you, obviously my action carries more weight.

But like I said again. I never said it wasn't a bit of a silly feat, and the calculation likely a bit off, but the action matters more than the words. It isn't his craziest feat, and there is a difference in saying he only went light speed, than saying he did go 13 trillion times light speed and it is bad writing.

If you are saying the second now, then that is totally different altogether as you are saying by nature of the feat he moved that fast. It's just really absurd to you. I wasn't about to try to make anybody believe anything in it's essence, just explaining why his actions mean more than his words. It's all good though I think we both see where each side is coming from. Like I said I'm not saying "You're just flat wrong fool." More of "I see what you're saying, I just don't agree on that one part."

I'm about to shower and hit the hay, I am going to be busy for the rest of the week with my business. So I'll probably post a bit here and there, but it won't be an ongoing argument. Good discussion though as always.

Later all.

Originally posted by darthgoober
he also obviously wanted Flash to be able to do it while going at sub light speed.

you're operating under the assumption that the writer sat down and said to himself "i think flash should do this feat at sub light speed".

face it, the guy just sucks at math or just plain guessed

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/281/silversurfervol3007nn1.jpg


/thread

how does that compare to 13 trillion times the speed of light?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
So if a book says it's impossible, or if Wolverine says it's impossible for him to slice the Hulk, after he has done it, we should believe he cant?

I mean isn't this the reason that handbooks and "stats" aren't allowed in the first place.

Wolverine is now a peak human again who cannot truly regenerate. That's not what happned in the storyline, it didn't say it was impossible for the flash to do it under lightspeed, in fact it said the opposite. We know it was the writer messing up. That's why I'm concerned abou taking these real wolrd extrapolations at face value.

If a comic show a class 70 lifting a submarine whose weight the writer is ignorant of and the narration says '"with a strengh tha can lift up to 70 tons, she hulk raises a submarine" do we assume she can now benchpress 30000 tons? Specially when she has much lower showings of strugling against much lesser weight? Like the flash has lower showings too.

Surfer.

Originally posted by 753
That's not what happned in the storyline, it didn't say it was impossible for the flash to do it under lightspeed, in fact it said the opposite. We know it was the writer messing up. That's why I'm concerned abou taking these real wolrd extrapolations at face value.

If a comic show a class 70 lifting a submarine whose weight the writer is ignorant of and the narration says '"with a strengh tha can lift up to 70 tons, she hulk raises a submarine" do we assume she can now benchpress 30000 tons? Specially when she has much lower showings of strugling against much lesser weight? Like the flash has lower showings too. You're in the minority as feats go way beyond their listings. Odin is like a class 70.

flash is faster and has to be faster by design

this power cosmic is overplayed

Originally posted by darthgoober
Oh he definately did it... but he did it at sub light speed .

By the same token if the narration says that a character like the Vision amps his density to the point that he weighs 90 tons in order to become immovable during a fight, we don't go grab calculators when he's then unmoved by a punch from someone like Thor to figure out how much he would have to weigh in order for him to tank the punch and say that our result supercede's the author's intent.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. DC light speed is > to RL light speed. 131

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I've said it before, I'll say it again. DC light speed is > to RL light speed. 131 Anyone can go FTL in DC, sometimes I think it only takes a bicycle in that universe.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
You're in the minority as feats go way beyond their listings. Odin is like a class 70.

Yeah strength feats are far more cut and dry.

We simply come to the conclusion that 'Class 100' does not actually mean '100 tons'. It just means its the max rating for strength out of 100.

Seeing as even modest size boulders are 100 tons, Spiderman by feats would technically be in the 'class 100' group by the simple definition of the given by marvel handbooks. But we know he's actually not in league with any Class 100 guys.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/281/silversurfervol3007nn1.jpg

/thread

Did the "math" on this.

For Galaxies to be passing by a person as he travels, you need to be moving around at least....

3,153,600,000,000,000,000 times the speed of light multiplied by the amount of galaxies passed per second to create a "blur" effect.

So, that's pretty nuts.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Did the "math" on this.

For Galaxies to be passing by a person as he travels, you need to be moving around at least....

3,153,600,000,000,000,000 times the speed of light multiplied by the amount of galaxies passed per second to create a "blur" effect.

So, that's pretty nuts. not really, flash once ran to the end of universe while outrunning a abstract. thats far faster than that

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
You're in the minority as feats go way beyond their listings. Odin is like a class 70. You sure? Just count the posters that have agreed the feat is unusable or that he was going under lightspeed as narration stated.

Odin is not a class 70 and the example I gave would have the narration stating she-hulk lifted a submarine by pressing 70 tons of strengh upon it regardless of how much it would weight in the real world. The feat cannot be inflated to a 30.000 tons lifting in contradiction fo narration.

The flash thing was a screw up by the writer. It's not a crazy feat, it's an artifact.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
not really, flash once ran to the end of universe while outrunning a abstract. thats far faster than that

Well, if you consider the Surfer's perception abilities that allow him to perceive nano-second level details, then each galaxy must be passing him within less than a nano-second in order for them to be perceived at a blur. Making this feat far more impressive.... O_O

Yeahhh, that's it...!!!

Also, if the feat ur talking about is the instance i remember, wasn't he narrated to be just a bit over light speed there, too?

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Well, if you consider the Surfer's perception abilities that allow him to perceive nano-second level details, then each galaxy must be passing him within less than a nano-second in order for them to be perceived at a blur. Making this feat far more impressive.... O_O

Yeahhh, that's it...!!!

Also, if the feat ur talking about is the instance i remember, wasn't he narrated to be just a bit over light speed there, too? Flash's perceptions are faster too.

Originally posted by Juntai
Flash's perceptions are faster too.

Never questioned/contended with that. But Flash's nuke feat wasn't based on his perceptions but on standardized measures of time.

Also, his running across the universe feat, IIRC, was done at under light speed.

Surfer's feat was based on HIS perceptions.

And if you haven't figured it out, I was just joshing about the whole post and "math" and the whole feat in general.... :P

how does flash run across the universe under light speed. hed still be doing it...

suicide1wa

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
how does flash run across the universe under light speed. hed still be doing it...

suicide1wa

Actually, I think that was to the end of TIME and not the Universe and I cuda sworn it was mentioned somewhere there that the Black Flash can't travel faster than light... can't remember tho...

thats better

Originally posted by SamZED
Anyone can go FTL in DC, sometimes I think it only takes a bicycle in that universe. dont be silly.. it requres at least a treadmill or hamster wheel..

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Actually, I think that was to the end of TIME and not the Universe and I cuda sworn it was mentioned somewhere there that the Black Flash can't travel faster than light... can't remember tho... It was in FC, well, the Black Racer or whomever it was, I forget.

But they are the same, right?

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Actually, I think that was to the end of TIME and not the Universe and I cuda sworn it was mentioned somewhere there that the Black Flash can't travel faster than light... can't remember tho... yet you have to go faster than light to time travel dur

Black Racer in FC was said not to move FTL, but he did before in the earlier New God's run.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Yeah strength feats are far more cut and dry.

We simply come to the conclusion that 'Class 100' does not actually mean '100 tons'. It just means its the max rating for strength out of 100.

Seeing as even modest size boulders are 100 tons, Spiderman by feats would technically be in the 'class 100' group by the simple definition of the given by marvel handbooks. But we know he's actually not in league with any Class 100 guys. Strength is also different as it is adrenaline based and more effort based than speed feats are generally. Spider-Man has the ability to do those feats, but he's not a regular in the class 100 area.Originally posted by 753
You sure? Just count the posters that have agreed the feat is unusable or that he was going under lightspeed as narration stated.

Odin is not a class 70 and the example I gave would have the narration stating she-hulk lifted a submarine by pressing 70 tons of strengh upon it regardless of how much it would weight in the real world. The feat cannot be inflated to a 30.000 tons lifting in contradiction fo narration.

The flash thing was a screw up by the writer. It's not a crazy feat, it's an artifact. I'm sure. I count 3 people in this thread, and more on the other side, and even more in the other thread regarding this. There is no way he was going less than the speed showed or he just didn't do it, how hard is that to understand. What someone does always go over what they say, or even what the author says at times.

He might not have intended it completely but he did intend to put those numbers down and do the feat so he did do it. Flash has crazier feats under his belt and if he was only going under light speed then he wouldn't have been able to do that feat. Who knows, maybe he was so hurried he didn't pay attention to how fast he went.

Or we can just say he went 2.5 quintillion miles per second and call that just under light speed. That was your other argument right?

Originally posted by SamZED
Anyone can go FTL in DC, sometimes I think it only takes a bicycle in that universe.
DC Bicycles are capable of traveling to Alpha Centauri in a Quantum Interval. So quit lowballing DC bicycles you troll. ahuh

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Strength is also different as it is adrenaline based and more effort based than speed feats are generally. Spider-Man has the ability to do those feats, but he's not a regular in the class 100 area. I'm sure. I count 3 people in this thread, and more on the other side, and even more in the other thread regarding this. There is no way he was going less than the speed showed or he just didn't do it, how hard is that to understand. What someone does always go over what they say, or even what the author says at times.

He might not have intended it completely but he did intend to put those numbers down and do the feat so he did do it. Flash has crazier feats under his belt and if he was only going under light speed then he wouldn't have been able to do that feat. Who knows, maybe he was so hurried he didn't pay attention to how fast he went.

Or we can just say he went 2.5 quintillion miles per second and call that just under light speed. That was your other argument right? My argument is that your mathematical extrapolation of the event is meaningless, because it's an obvious mistake by the author. And his words printed on paper in the story are as good as god's. My point is that the feats is unusable to prove he can move at trillions of c, because it's a **** up, not an actual feat. That storyline says nothing about his speed only about the lack of consistancy and carelessness of writers in comics.

Originally posted by 753
My argument is that your mathematical extrapolation of the event is meaningless, because it's an obvious mistake by the author. And his words printed on paper in the story are as good as god's. My point is that the feats is unusable to prove he can move at trillions of c, because it's a **** up, not an actual feat. That storyline says nothing about his speed only about the lack of consistancy and carelessness of writers in comics. Nobody is disagreeing that it is super high or anything of the sort. But he did do the feat. So he had to go that fast or else the feat didn't happen. If it's crazy, bs, pis, ods. pms, if you feel that way it is fine. I was just saying what the incident really was.

he performed the feat but it was stated to still be under light not above.

hence, real science to explain the feat doesnt count as a feat in itself..

writers also have stated flash is the fastest guy in comics

he is the fastest "man" in comics others have bn far faster then him in the future or alien race..

the giant gods one was a runner who was faster then flash.. iirc

Originally posted by King Castle
he performed the feat but it was stated to still be under light not above.

hence, real science to explain the feat doesnt count as a feat in itself.. Wolverine stated Spider-Man could break his neck and Spider-Man said he was 40x faster than a human, Wolverine/MA supporters don't like that though. 2.5 quintillion mps is sub light speed I suppose.

your comparing the opinion of characters and his limited knowledge aka Hyperbole for narration and factual statement of the writers who for all intends and purposes is god.

wolverine/spider can say whatever they want it doesnt mean it is true..

Norman osborn thinks that Sentry is the angel of death that doesnt make it a factual statement of the narrator its the opinion of the character.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/281/silversurfervol3007nn1.jpg


/thread

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Strength is also different as it is adrenaline based and more effort based than speed feats are generally. Spider-Man has the ability to do those feats, but he's not a regular in the class 100 area. I'm sure. I count 3 people in this thread, and more on the other side, and even more in the other thread regarding this. There is no way he was going less than the speed showed or he just didn't do it, how hard is that to understand. What someone does always go over what they say, or even what the author says at times.


You misunderstand my point. My point is that 100 tons is a VEEEEEEERY low figure for the capabilities of Class 100 guys. Everyone in the class 100 group can lift 100 ton objects casually in one hand without a thought without ever getting tired.

Class 100 is more like 100,000 tons than just 100. But, the simple description of Class 100 simply says one has to be able to 'lift and press a 100 tons'. So the entire system is a misnomer, especially when in more modern times writers are more aware of actual weights of things and state them often.

Lifting 100 tons for Spiderman isn't exactly far-fetched day to day capability as he's lifted a metal apparatus that weighed 'far more than a locamotive' (which can weigh about 200 tons), thrown around medium sized tanks like toys, (which can weigh 70 tons or a lot more) among other things like bracing buildings.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
what are you tryin to say?

Originally posted by King Castle
your comparing the opinion of characters and his limited knowledge aka Hyperbole for narration and factual statement of the writers who for all intends and purposes is god.

wolverine/spider can say whatever they want it doesnt mean it is true..

Norman osborn thinks that Sentry is the angel of death that doesnt make it a factual statement of the narrator its the opinion of the character.
No, actually the Flash said all of that bub, but the Flash actually did the feat, and actions always speak louder than words, in real life and in comics. If I tell you that I'm sleeping as I'm typing this, what matters more, what I did or what I said I just did? It is such a simple concept that I don't understand what the problem is.

The mistake was that the writer goofed by saying it was just under light speed since the feat did happen and it is part of his character. He may have not thought out what he said, but he did do it. It have been different if he checked what he said and was slightly off, but he just put the feat down there so it does count.

Spider-Man doesn't know his own speed but the Flash does? And Wolverine doesn't know his anatomy? Says who?

So if Wonder Woman says a character hits as hard as Superman that is a lie too? Flash's speed that he said he went was an opinion about how fast he was going. The point is, if he were going 187k mps or less he couldn't do the feat. He wouldn't even rescue one person, that's how big a deal it is. This isn't a mild jump. It's possibly the largest one in comics.



Originally posted by CosmicComet
You misunderstand my point. My point is that 100 tons is a VEEEEEEERY low figure for the capabilities of Class 100 guys. Everyone in the class 100 group can lift 100 ton objects casually in one hand without a thought without ever getting tired.

Class 100 is more like 100,000 tons than just 100. But, the simple description of Class 100 simply says one has to be able to 'lift and press a 100 tons'. So the entire system is a misnomer, especially when in more modern times writers are more aware of actual weights of things and state them often.

Lifting 100 tons for Spiderman isn't exactly far-fetched day to day capability as he's lifted a metal apparatus that weighed 'far more than a locamotive' (which can weigh about 200 tons), thrown around medium sized tanks like toys, (which can weigh 70 tons or a lot more) among other things like bracing buildings. Oh I agree completely, maybe I wasn't clear.

narration stated he did it short of the speed of light.. real math doesnt add up to his feat so what. he did it under the speed of light...

its like when some one's energy blast is said to be the heat of a supernova and they are tossing it around in a city..

we say okay it has the power of a supernova but we dont start grabbing a calculator and calculating the heat or the required mass for it to happen and ponder why the city or planet isnt incinerated.

we take the feat for what it was implied and leave real science out the door...

we dont say well the heat wasnt supernova it would have to be astronomically less to not harm the environment so... i say it was only as hot as a lightning bolt or the hottest flame recorded on earth.

that is BS and we dont do that.

I'm sleeping right now, although I'm typing you this I'm sleeping. Since it is what I said I did, it must be true.

Originally posted by King Castle
narration stated he did it short of the speed of light.. real math doesnt add up to his feat so what. he did it under the speed of light...

its like when some one's energy blast is said to be the heat of a supernova and they are tossing it around in a city..

we say okay it has the power of a supernova but we dont start grabbing a calculator and calculating the heat or the required mass for it to happen and ponder why the city or planet isnt incinerated.

we take the feat for what it was implied and leave real science out the door...

we dont say well the heat wasnt supernova it would have to be astronomically less to not harm the environment so... i say it was only as hot as a lightning bolt or the hottest flame recorded on earth.

that is BS and we dont do that.

Flash stated something and he did something else, something else that if he actually did what he said wouldn't be near conceivable. It's not even up for question.

People are falling into these groups.

1. He did the feat, but said something else. What he does means more than what he said. It was not intentional but it still happened.

2. He said something, so the feat falls out of place and doesn't count.

3. He did it *and* he went under the speed of light.

So now under the speed of light is 2.5 quintillion miles per second, or the feat simply didn't happen. Great. IDLIIDH, might even be trolling.

BTW your examples are poor, because he did do this feat therefore it was what happened at that time. It wasn't a theory, and I didn't use a calculator, just some common sense as I was curious.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
No, actually the Flash said all of that bub, but the Flash actually did the feat, and actions always speak louder than words, in real life and in comics. Those narration boxes were the flash's thoughts? Doesnt look like it. The feat isn't crazy or even pis. It's not a feat at all, it was just a mistake. This isn't about what was done vs what was said, you're just proposing an interpretation of what was done based on real world physics and in contradiction of the storyline. The feat is unusable except to claim the flash can get a heck of a lot done before a nuclear bomb goes off.

And if that really was the flash anrating the events and you claim he is unreliable about how fast he said he was going, why should we accept it was acomplished in a fraction of a microsecond or whatever it says there?

Originally posted by 753


And if that really was the flash anrating the events and you claim he is unreliable about how fast he said he was going, why should we accept it was acomplished in a fraction of a microsecond or whatever it says there? Now you're starting to argue.

Like I said a dozen times I think it was crazy hence I said it tongue in cheek, but he still did it and it isn't the craziest thing he did. But if those people "suddenly materialized" and he did said feat, it would matter more than an after thought just like Spider-Man's "I am 40x faster than a human". (Is he? I don't know.)

But let's play your game. If 187,000 was divided by 2,500,000,000,000,000,000 It would be a number less than one, which was my point that it was leaning more towards one side or the other as the feat wouldn't be possible and he wouldn't have picked up anyone. Although whether the author or Flash said it, it still wouldn't matter as both statements are contradictory.

Originally posted by 753
Those narration boxes were the flash's thoughts? Doesnt look like it. The feat isn't crazy or even pis. It's not a feat at all, it was just a mistake. This isn't about what was done vs what was said, you're just proposing an interpretation of what was done based on real world physics and in contradiction of the storyline. The feat is unusable except to claim the flash can get a heck of a lot done before a nuclear bomb goes off.

And if that really was the flash anrating the events and you claim he is unreliable about how fast he said he was going, why should we accept it was acomplished in a fraction of a microsecond or whatever it says there?

I don't see any reason why this doesn't go in the same bin with characters doing clearly ridiculous things on panel (wolverine slashing thanos with bone claws, surfer being KOed with a brick, Red Hulk punching a watcher etc) that shouldnt be possible due to writer error.

The question here isn't even whether or not the feat happened or how it's possible, the question here is instead "The writer has clearly f*cked up." how do we handle this?

personally, I can't see ANY reason why this should be any more valid than any of the above.

The problem with the Flash beating the Surfer, is that characters a lot less powerful, than the Surfer have beaten the mess out of Flash more than a dozen times. On average the Surfer should have no problem defeating the Flash.

Does it make sense for the Flash to defeat a guy that could destroy the entire planet that he was on? A win is a win right?

Originally posted by King Castle
he is the fastest "man" in comics others have bn far faster then him in the future or alien race..

the giant gods one was a runner who was faster then flash.. iirc who hermes?

Originally posted by Space M ummy
I don't see any reason why this doesn't go in the same bin with characters doing clearly ridiculous things on panel (wolverine slashing thanos with bone claws, surfer being KOed with a brick, Red Hulk punching a watcher etc) that shouldnt be possible due to writer error.

The question here isn't even whether or not the feat happened or how it's possible, the question here is instead "The writer has clearly f*cked up." how do we handle this?

personally, I can't see ANY reason why this should be any more valid than any of the above. Pretty much. That's the issue with debating here if you treat feats like the only thing that counts with no caution. Kinda another point I wanted to bring up.

You need your statistical outliers and other facts at times, with good old logic and common sense. I might have sounded contradictory, but I've always been one in looking at other pieces of evidence. Because even consistency can be screwy. No matter how many times Batman flat out outruns a bullet, it will be PIS, just like Flash being hit by a boomerang. This is no different than a lot of things argued here everyday. That and people will pick and choose high and low and all of that jazz.

This thread is to see who is faster it's not a fight.

Originally posted by King Castle
what are you tryin to say?

"... And gasps in wonderment as a gaping hole appears to rip open the very fabric of reality itself!"

This is how Surfer can roll. So fast that physic can't handle it. Flash don't go as fast.

Originally posted by kgkg
This thread is to see who is faster it's not to a fight. lol some have been posting other things.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
lol some have been posting other things. So whats you take on Wally vs Surfer in speed?

Wally is way faster or same?

again in a race SS beats him if it is who puts on clothes faster flash beats SS

Originally posted by kgkg
So whats you take on Wally vs Surfer in speed?

Wally is way faster or same? Yea never got around to that. I think in practical moving and reacting definitely Flash.

If Surfer is going warpspeed, it would seem like it is stacked in his favor, bar any crazy Flash feats.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
writers also have stated flash is the fastest guy in comics

Because he is.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Yea never got around to that. I think in practical moving and reacting definitely Flash.

If Surfer is going warpspeed, it would seem like it is stacked in his favor, bar any crazy Flash feats. Pretty much what I was thinking.

Travel speed Surfer definitely takes it going on average feat of those character were in situation that they had to use max speed.

Wally is overall faster in reaction , combat etc.

Originally posted by kgkg
Pretty much what I was thinking.

Travel speed Surfer definitely takes it going on average feat of those character were in situation that they had to use max speed.

Wally is overall faster in reaction , combat etc. Great minds tend to think alike usually.