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Was it just me or were they awesome?!

HAven't seen them yet. Are they?

Well they mostly focus on the clones. They brought back the rishi clones and you get to see their training. That's the first episode. The second is an all out brawl on Kamino.

I'm hearing nothing but good things about these 2 episodes

the prequel to "Rookies" (one the best episodes this show has had), and then a sequel...

I hear CN censored one of Ventress' kills in "ARC Troopers"... hardcore

can't wait to see it

I believe you can find the clip here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE11a9BXe54

lol.

"Well, we'll keep the part where Asajj takes a life and stabs this guy in the chest with her lightsaber. The kiss is too hardcore though".

Found the first one a bit boring/repetative about half way in. Second was great.

Both episodes were awesome, although the second one was more so. Really, both were incredibly well done episodes. Although I'm not looking forward to the nest one.

And that Ventress kill... Even with out the deleated scene it was rather brutal, I loved how she choked him and then flung him against the wall.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
lol.

"Well, we'll keep the part where Asajj takes a life and stabs this guy in the chest with her lightsaber. The kiss is too hardcore though".

hehehehe

that was it apparently

CN cut it, so it is hardcore


Still haven't seen the episodes... it airs in October... and I'm too lazy to download it

Originally posted by Hybris
Was it just me or were they awesome?!


Yes! I like stories about the clones.

Originally posted by ares834

And that Ventress kill... Even with out the deleated scene it was rather brutal, I loved how she choked him and then flung him against the wall.

What exactly did CN edit out?

After stabbing the clone, Ventress kisses him, then lets him fall to the floor. CTN edited out the kiss.

There's more than just the kiss. You don't see Ventress stabbing him. All you get is the sound of the lightsaber and a wound on the clone.

Huh, interesting. Cartoon Network ftl.

I've heard around that they were thinking of showing TCW on Adult Swim; it'd be nice if it was uendited.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican


I've heard around that they were thinking of showing TCW on Adult Swim; it'd be nice if it was uendited.

I would much prefer that.

Originally posted by Hybris
There's more than just the kiss. You don't see Ventress stabbing him. All you get is the sound of the lightsaber and a wound on the clone.
However, Cartoon network didn't have any problem showing Ventress stab other people in the back.

Indeed, but where was it stated that CN cut it out?

They were both good, Bric is my new favorite character.

Where's Ordo?

Crying in despair... ARC Toopers are trained from birth not appointed damn it!

Originally posted by queeq
Where's Ordo?

we need someone to say at least one bad thing about the episodes

It can be retconned i am sure.

Originally posted by ares834
Crying in despair... ARC Toopers are trained from birth not appointed damn it!
Oh you know me too well lol.

The problem is Lucas cant even adhere to his own philosophy.

I'm also sick of the distinct lack of a timeline, but I guess thats fine if you have zero attention span or ever watched a decent TV show before.

I'll tear these episodes down later.

I look forward to it.

I find the lack of Ordo disturbing

Ordo is in medical school, has lots of hobbies, and thinks b!tching online is fun, but relatively a useless waste of time. Especially when my fandom is being actively eroded.

I haven't even change my sig in months.

You're losing it.

Just saw eps 1 and 2. Ep1 was okay, nice fresh storyline, ep2 suffers from the usual more of the same. Another meeting between OB1 and Grievous (this is getting stale) and more grumpy Anakin. Ah well, on to ep3 and 4.

Originally posted by queeq
Another meeting between OB1 and Grievous (this is getting stale) and more grumpy Anakin.

With all those encounters between the two, one would begin to understand why of all masters they sent Kenobi after Grievous on Utapau

Exactly! Because they're buddies?

Ugh. I need to review before you guys take all my points lol.

I liked Anakin's demeanor when Asajj is surrounded by troopers.

"I suppose you're going to ask me to surrender now?"

"No, I'm going to let my soldiers execute you."

Originally posted by queeq
Exactly! Because they're buddies?

The council said a master was needed with more experience. When you look at TCW, there isn't any Jedi with as much experience as Obi-Wan when it comes to Grievous.

Experience hasn't apparently worked before.

Don't know about that. Grievous gets his ass kicked in 99% of his fights when he's not in a Genndy Tartakovsky written episode.

Every meeting between OB1 and Grievous turns their duel in ROTS more and more into just another tea party... How many times does he have to meet this guy before he can finally kill him. I just don't understand why they just don't stay away from this guy, at least in combo with OB1. Let him kill some othet experienced Jedi, at least that would make OB1's victory over Grievous as something great.

" Originally posted by ares834
Crying in despair... ARC Toopers are trained from birth not appointed damn it!"

it can be easily retconned.

Originally posted by Shey Tapani
" Originally posted by ares834
Crying in despair... ARC Toopers are trained from birth not appointed damn it!"

it can be easily retconned.

You cant retcon years of fact, even disregarding the fact Lucas' version is retarded. The show should be retconned.

Here is the retcon:

a lot of ARCs died so they retrained regular soilders as ARCs.

OMG. That makes total sense. Lots of specialized soldiers died so they replaced them with genetically inferior soldiers never designed for that role!

Its like making army men into spec ops. All you need is a bit of training!

I'm... pretty sure pretty much every "special ops" soldier in real life was originally just a regular grunt soldier at one point.

"Its like making army men into spec ops."

The original Rangers were recruited from the ranks of the regular army.

Jesse Ventura became a Seal without Seal training.

The thing is, thanks to Karen Traviss's dumb ass, we have to accept the fact that the Republic managed to fight off an army of "quintillion's(a million trillions)" of CIS droids (according to Star Wars insider #86), with an army of only 3 million clones. 3 million vs. quintillions. Even if we assumed that it was just 1 quintillion, and even then if we assumed that the CIS only had enough ships to transport only half of that, no let's be even more generous, a quarter, that would be like 250 trillion forces.

So like, no matter how you cut it, throughout the entire war the clones were ridiculously numerically challenged. So that being the case, the only way I could even see the Clones having Arcs and commandos near the endpoint of the war would be to start cutting corners and just training regular joes.

And still they win...

Yeah. Really doesn't put the CIS in any type of positive light. There's around a million planets in Star Wars I believe (according to EU anyway I guess), so that means that if they wanted to they could put a billion troops on every single little planet in the Galaxy simultaneously, assuming they had the ships for it.

Well, I suppose plante sthat coose one side or another and have their own army wouldn't need any droids or clones? Only when threatened by the other side.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
I'm... pretty sure pretty much every "special ops" soldier in real life was originally just a regular grunt soldier at one point.

Except when you genetically dumb down a soldier to be less independant, they dont make good commandos or supersoldiers. This isnt about Traviss, ARCs are far more prevalent than her books. This is about common logic and Star Wars CANON vs this show.

It takes 10 years to grow clones with Kamino growthh acceleration. During Geonosis battle droids are literally coming off the line every few seconds. Its obvious that the Clones are tremendously outnumbered. If "the first battallions are ready" means you have say 10 X 1000 troops., thats 10,000 clones against a Seperatist army that is combined from multiple organizations with pre-constructed mechanicanized armies (the Trade Federation alone was strong enough to invade an entire planet) and seemingly unlimited production capacity and a shit ton of droids still remaining at the end of the war that they can be "shut down."

The only logical explination ares there were not that many droids either...in which case why is this a Galactic war with tons of planets being occupied by the seperatists? or clones are highly effective soldiers and even the stormie-level troopers have great kill ratios (which is the explanation both I and Traviss prefer).

So you think that the Clones have like, 3000:1 kill ratios? Because, that's about the only way they could stand up against a force that numbers "in the quintillions".

I don't know why you and her would prefer that, because that's really... not logical. Every single engagement ever shown within the mythos shows clones suffering heavy losses, not as bad as the droids, but usually at least 30-50% of any group shown at any particular time.

However I do see how she could be pidgeonholed into the dumbshit with that number. According to that Kiminoen in AotC they had something like 220K in production and another million on the way. If it took them 20 years to get to that number (assuming they began creating the army as soon as Sipho-Dias paid for it), it would be impossible for them to cook out another few million over the course of a 4 year war.

Still, 3 million... *sighs*

*editing for accuracy D:

Even an average 3000:1 ratio.... hmm... I certainly don't see that in both the films or in CW.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
So you think that the Clones have like, 3000:1 kill ratios? Because, that's about the only way they could stand up against a force that numbers "in the quintillions".

I don't know why you and her would prefer that, because that's really... not logical. Every single engagement ever shown within the mythos shows clones suffering heavy losses, not as bad as the droids, but usually at least 30-50% of any group shown at any particular time.

However I do see how she could be pidgeonholed into the dumbshit with that number. According to that Kiminoen in AotC they had something like 220K in production and another million on the way. If it took them 20 years to get to that number (assuming they began creating the army as soon as Sipho-Dias paid for it), it would be impossible for them to cook out another few million over the course of a 4 year war.

Still, 3 million... *sighs*

*editing for accuracy D:

I dont like the 3 million number either, for a variety of reasons and I've never defended it. Aside from that one clear mistake, Traviss has in my opinion an almost flawless interpretation of the Clone Wars, one way more fascinating that Lucas.

In terms of the droid armies in her books, a lot of the droid numbers were subterfuge. Her books never really state how many droids there are. A lot of it is rumor and speculation. The size of the droid army seems to be more driven as a disinformation campaign to inspire fear in the Republic. The only thing that is clear is that droids MASSIVELY outnumber the Republic, and I'm cool with that.

Traviss mentions that the kill ratios were a few hundred to one for a basic trooper model. For Commandos, ARCs, etc these would be much higher. She stated that clones with accuracy ratings below 97% were killed off (no *ucking 99s). The real kicker though are the Jedi who can absolutely decimate armies.

So how does this stack up against the films and the show? Clearly these sort of kill ratios aren't seen. We did see such kill ratios for Jedi in the Gendy series. in this series, in Ambush we had the "jedi is worth more than 1000 droids" Clearly that the episode would even start with jedi = droid is ridiculous, but at least we have some precedent established. In my opinion this episode should have been that 1 clone is better than 100 droids, but we know what I think of Lucas and Filoni.

The rest of the time I feel the show suffers from its cheapness. Rarely have we seen something equivalent of a full out battle. I just think its easier to show 10 clones against 30 droids and have all the droids and half the clones die, even with Jedi. Then people can die, but there is no real regard for the context of the war. With reasonable kill ratios, we could go a whole episode without a single clone dying and they'd have to render 1000 times the droids they are now.

However, in the movies there are multiple planet wide seiges going on simultaneously, and we clearly saw what the Trade Federation alone used to blockade (there were at least 20 ships) and invade a planet without a military. It seems that for what Kamino was capable of producing vs how many of those stupid droids you'd need to control a planet would be a very low clone:droid ratio.

Nice analysis, Ordo.

Thanks. It sucks that the only shred of EU I care about is Clone Wars lol....and it has already been so comprehensively detailed.

Hehehe... quite the irony actually.

Too bad CW is hardly exploring that world. Just saw Ep4... boring run-of-the-mill episode again. Happens everytime the usual suspects show up.

Well...I <3 clones. After Episode 2 I had to know more lol. Lots of interesting stories.

CW is sucking hard, though actually I laughed because TFN and those Lucas-sucking faps actually reviewed an episode harder than I would have. It was pretty boring and nonsensical, but at least it wasnt another rehash and provided some depth. I'm much more frightened for this week when we get another Ashoka-goes-on-a-mission-and-grows-up.

Oh dear...

Its just that moment when you're on Kamino, the most beautifully designed planet in the Star Wars universe, and Kenobi steps out over the balcony, and you see the white armor, and suddenly the entire Saga is bridged.

and Jango.

Mandalorians rule.

Well, they don't really... hehehe

Not in this perverse interpretation

Tweens with bare midrifts do.

Hehehe... hey, you know... for kids.

Originally posted by Ordo
I dont like the 3 million number either, for a variety of reasons and I've never defended it. Aside from that one clear mistake, Traviss has in my opinion an almost flawless interpretation of the Clone Wars, one way more fascinating that Lucas.

In terms of the droid armies in her books, a lot of the droid numbers were subterfuge. Her books never really state how many droids there are. A lot of it is rumor and speculation. The size of the droid army seems to be more driven as a disinformation campaign to inspire fear in the Republic. The only thing that is clear is that droids MASSIVELY outnumber the Republic, and I'm cool with that.

Traviss mentions that the kill ratios were a few hundred to one for a basic trooper model. For Commandos, ARCs, etc these would be much higher. She stated that clones with accuracy ratings below 97% were killed off (no *ucking 99s). The real kicker though are the Jedi who can absolutely decimate armies.

So how does this stack up against the films and the show? Clearly these sort of kill ratios aren't seen. We did see such kill ratios for Jedi in the Gendy series. in this series, in Ambush we had the "jedi is worth more than 1000 droids" Clearly that the episode would even start with jedi = droid is ridiculous, but at least we have some precedent established. In my opinion this episode should have been that 1 clone is better than 100 droids, but we know what I think of Lucas and Filoni.

The rest of the time I feel the show suffers from its cheapness. Rarely have we seen something equivalent of a full out battle. I just think its easier to show 10 clones against 30 droids and have all the droids and half the clones die, even with Jedi. Then people can die, but there is no real regard for the context of the war. With reasonable kill ratios, we could go a whole episode without a single clone dying and they'd have to render 1000 times the droids they are now.

However, in the movies there are multiple planet wide seiges going on simultaneously, and we clearly saw what the Trade Federation alone used to blockade (there were at least 20 ships) and invade a planet without a military. It seems that for what Kamino was capable of producing vs how many of those stupid droids you'd need to control a planet would be a very low clone:droid ratio. I...

I have nothing to say. We're in agreement for the most part.

Wow... that calls for a celebration.

*gungans and little children laughing*

That's scary.

That was almost 12 years ago.

It still is scary.

Just saw the preview for this week....

O
M
G

Originally posted by Ordo
Just saw the preview for this week....

O
M
G Yeah I saw it too, and I feel the same way.

"Those aren't 3000:1 ratios."

131

Yay kiddie power! No wonder Kalevala is going to fall.

That bad?

watch for yourself

Ahsoka is having dreams....Anakin Dreams...complete with zooming effects and rainbows.

The episode that was on tonight... Worst one yet. I kid you not, it was downright terrible.


I jut think it's funny that when Anakin loses his saber he becomes helpless, but Ahsoka becomes Bruce Lee... Augh. Since when was Ahsoka the Chosen One?

Warning, delayed reply ahead...

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
lol.

"Well, we'll keep the part where Asajj takes a life and stabs this guy in the chest with her lightsaber. The kiss is too hardcore though".

It makes sense: it's too far into the sick and twisted killer territory. Kissing the face of a person you just impaled in the chest and is going to die in a few seconds is definitely too sick and twisted for a "kids" show. Makes sense that they cut it.


However, I wouldn't mind my 6-year old son watching it.

I would have preferred if they'd just stuck a big black censor block on the area of the body where the lightsaber meets the clone's torso, that says "killing is wrong." in white letters over it. Or like, whenever someone gets stabbed by a lightsaber, instead of showing the sparks from the blade flash heating the target, there could be a splash of confetti, and the sound of children laughing in the background.

Isn't there already?

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Or like, whenever someone gets stabbed by a lightsaber, instead of showing the sparks from the blade flash heating the target, there could be a splash of confetti, and the sound of children laughing in the background.

Some one has been playing too much Gruntpocalypse.

Originally posted by Ordo
...

This is about common logic and Star Wars CANON vs this show.

...

common logic yes, SW Canon? no



anyways, haven't seen any episodes this season at all.... was the last one really that bad?

So I hear. Ep1 was allright.

We've clearly passed the beginning of the season and are solidly in the doldrums now. Things will pick up again around episodes 8-10 and then we're in for the long haul during winter.

OMG, just watched the two Mandalore episodes... same ole same ole... I think they ran out of imagination... a long time ago.

Maybe if they used the existing established Mandalorian story they wouldn't need to invent shallow dead end plots.

OMG YOU DIDNT LIKE CORKIE?

They have stretched the whole Mandalore idea too much... They could have brought back Death Watch, but no instead, you get a corrupt prime minister and some cheesy 'kids save the day' plot.

And heck I almost expected the prime minister to say: 'I would have gotten away with it, if it hadn't been for you meddling kids!'

This episode and the one before it have been utter trash...

Lol. I had the same Scooby Doo feel. It was a waste though.

First off, Death Watch would be the FIRST group trying to exploit any sort of pain or suffering on Mandalore, be it the food shortages or the poison attack. They were not seen at all, only transparently racist aliens.

Secondly, the Prime minister would be a great foil for Satine, and could ultimately side with Death Watch. He was disposed of too quickly and to no end. Instead, he is now gone, we'll get another confusing replacement.

Don't hire this osik director again. I feel like this show is the ultimate s1ut. Anyone who wants just comes in and directs an episode.

Assassins. Because the only thing better than one Ahsoka episode is TWO!

Any villain gets so little screen time and gets captured so quickly... Even the more potential ones (unlike the lame pm of Mandalore)... They runs the scripts of an automated computer program or summin... It's pretty lousy.

Especially after 50 episodes.

An episodic plot might work great for a 1.5 hour Gendy show. It doesnt' work well when expanded to at least 50 hours over 5 years.

Nope.

For a moment after watching EpI of this season, I had a little hope we'd just follow the group of Clone Troopers through their career... You can still work with episodic plots, but at least there'd be an overal story arc follwing these guys.... Have their characters develop etc..

Ah well..

Did anyone watch last night? I couldn't make it.

Nope... haven't seen it yet.

I did. It was better than the last two episodes, but it still wasn't any good. Another mind f*ck when it comes to the timeline though.

Thats unfortunate, but not unexpected.

TFN's review was back on the premature-ejaculation track. They called it the best episode of the series. Of course, I dont believe anything they say anymore.

They repeat their own reviews as well?

Repeat?

Any subtitle that reads: "Star Wars meets That's So Raven" is just going to be a non-starter for me.

Like the script writers repeat their own storylines...

Well yeah. With few exceptions, their "reviews" are unabashed circle-jerks.

They fixated for like 2 paragraphs on simple styalistic details that have been used before in this show. Granted, I haven't seen this episode yet, but I'm sure I'll be underwhelmed.

But enough of TFN. I stopped listening to Force Cast because of their vapid boosting of this series and their dismissal of fans who had problems with it.

Watched it last night...it was actually decently good. Still had a few glaring flaws, mostly related to the shows own canon.

Ah... will watch it soon.