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1. Wolverine gets his claws
2. Can't use his claws but he does get the muramasa blade.

Wolverine for both.

Yeah, Wolverine would probably take both. Zealot gives him hell though.

Zealot is too versatile.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Yeah, Wolverine would probably take both. Zealot gives him hell though.

For the first one, she may win the 2nd.

Originally posted by Konton
Zealot is too versatile.
really based off what? what she gunna be able to do to him? she extremely melee oriented, so I like to know what versatility your speaking of.

Wolverine the first one wins.

Originally posted by The Nuul
For the first one, she may win the 2nd.
doubtful, that blade gives Logan further reach and it ability to cut even surpasses his adamatium claws in many ways. He as ridiculously skilled with a sword.

people dont give wolverine enough credit he will stomp her even withouyt any claws or blade

And trolls will troll.

Okay then let's revise this... I don't know how to... But
1. Regular wolverine with claws only.
2. Bone claw wolverine with muramasa
3. Regular wolverine with muramasa
4. No adamantium wolverine with no use of claws or weapons

Really? How much do you guys know about Zealot? You do realize she is a millenia old weapons master with hundreds of years training with more weaponry than you've ever seen in your life who has Class 4 strength and superhuman durability, reflexes and stamina and accelerated healing. Her specialty is swordsmanship.

And I am assuming this is Zealot without the dark magic...?

Originally posted by The Nuul
And trolls will troll.

you are talking about yourself troll?

Actually I didn't know about the dark magic. I fell off the grid with wildcats a long time ago... Hehe so yeah no magic

Originally posted by Lunacyde
Really? How much do you guys know about Zealot? You do realize she is a millenia old weapons master with hundreds of years training with more weaponry than you've ever seen in your life who has Class 4 strength and superhuman durability, reflexes and stamina and accelerated healing. Her specialty is swordsmanship.

And I am assuming this is Zealot without the dark magic...?
How much do you know about wolverine? You do realize wolverine beat millenia old swordmaster countless times. Wolverine is a master of pretty much every single MA there is. Prove that she has that level of strength, lets see some feats. Durability wont do shit for her in this fight, so it beyond pointless. Wolverine stamina is capable of fight a week straight, so again Zealot stamina is pointless. Her healing factor is not nearly the level capable of staying in combat with wolverine.

Wolverine specialty is swords as well. His trainer the greatest swordsmen to eve live was thousands of years old as well.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
How much do you know about wolverine? You do realize wolverine beat millenia old swordmaster countless times. Wolverine is a master of pretty much every single MA there is. Prove that she has that level of strength, lets see some feats. Durability wont do shit for her in this fight, so it beyond pointless. Wolverine stamina is capable of fight a week straight, so again Zealot stamina is pointless. Her healing factor is not nearly the level capable of staying in combat with wolverine.

Wolverine specialty is swords as well. His trainer the greatest swordsmen to eve live was thousands of years old as well.

That millenia old sword master has nothing to do with Zealot. Heroes beat people that have been practicing their art for a lot longer than them all the time in comics. This is a forum fight where Wolverine doesn't just win because he's the main character or hero.

Saying that her stamina and durability are pointless lends you no credibility. It's like the difference between fighting a normal human and Spider_Man it makes a difference. Her healing once again isn't as great as his, but it's still better than that of a normal human. You act like just because her stats aren't as great as his in those areas that they don't matter at all.....she's got a decent strength advantage on him last time I checked, you don't see me saying his strength is pointless.

Originally posted by Lunacyde
That millenia old sword master has nothing to do with Zealot. Heroes beat people that have been practicing their art for a lot longer than them all the time in comics. This is a forum fight where Wolverine doesn't just win because he's the main character or hero.

Saying that her stamina and durability are pointless lends you no credibility. It's like the difference between fighting a normal human and Spider_Man it makes a difference. Her healing once again isn't as great as his, but it's still better than that of a normal human. You act like just because her stats aren't as great as his in those areas that they don't matter at all.....she's got a decent strength advantage on him last time I checked, you don't see me saying his strength is pointless.
again this has nothing to do with him being the hero. He was better, simply better then him which is what I am talking about, you don't know much about wolverine. He was better then the angle of death, that was made clear every single time it was brought up.


how that? Wolverines weapons can easily cut through pretty much anything. her having inuman durability would not matter, it not going to make it any harder for wolverine claws or sword to cut right through her. again her stamina doesent matter, becuases her opponents stamina is much better.

buit again it does not matter it betetr then a normal human, beasts, spidermans ect. all better then a normal human, but that matter nothing in a fact when opponents stabbing the shit out of them. There healing factor simply is not strong enough for it to matter.


again I want prove that she stronger. I notice how every time I ask for prove of her strength you ignore it. honestly I starting to feel like your full of shit.

Zealot.

Meh, Zealot still has to overcome the predicament that any melee-based high street-low meta character has against Wolverine. She actually has to tax out his healing factor while basically never getting hit herself.

Curse that damned healing factor.

Does anyone have the scans where they met. Fought, etc...

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Does anyone have the scans where they met. Fought, etc...
I own the issue, I believe they met 3 times. I will look for it when I go home. Hopefully I can find it.

Going through the comics again to find her feats or lack of.......Logan stomps her. He owns with quantity and quality.

I agree

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I own the issue, I believe they met 3 times. I will look for it when I go home. Hopefully I can find it.

Please. I only have seen one appearance.

Her HF is shit compared to Logans. When going through all of my WS comics I didnt see one good healing feat from her. One good hit from those AD claws of his and shes done for. He can tank her shit all day long.

I never said Z's healing is as good as Wolvies. Not even close.

Wolverine easy... for the same reason posted above quantity and quality

Then how on earth did you give her the win in this match?

Originally posted by rotiart
Actually I didn't know about the dark magic. I fell off the grid with wildcats a long time ago... Hehe so yeah no magic

Why would you take away her magic? Doing this severely limits her to being a superior swords master with super natural strength, if you do this perhaps you should also remove Wolverine's healing factor.

I do recall Elektra doing a dance on Wolverine, and Zealot is a far better fighter than any ninja could ever hope to be.

Also while Wolverine fought an old master, could it be said that he was superior to Zealot in speed and grace, and strength?

Keep in mind people that Zealot was schooling a guy that could read her movements like a book, when she fought against Midnighter. The only reason that he may have ever even landed a hit was due to his power set. Wolverine may have a very hard time scoring a finishing blow, while at the same time, she wouldn't be able to kill him, although a sword through the temple would go a long ways to knocking him out.

Originally posted by Stoic


I do recall Elektra doing a dance on Wolverine, and Zealot is a far better fighter than any ninja could ever hope to be.


Elektra is not some common ninja, she one of the best fighters on the planet. She also study dark martial arts, and is a telepath as well as have superhuman stats.

Elektra only manage to gain advantage against wolverine that just got off life support and she did this by using shield guards to distract wolverine and pinn him long enough for her to shove her sai's into his deltoids, that far cry form dancing aorund him.

Originally posted by Stoic

while Wolverine fought an old master, could it be said that he was superior to Zealot in speed and grace, and strength?


He was the angle of death.


old master you mean Ogun? yes I would say Ogun is most deffiently superior to zealot.


Originally posted by Stoic
in mind people that Zealot was schooling a guy that could read her movements like a book, when she fought against Midnighter.
There are many characters who can do that, like DD who wolverine as completely punked.

Fighting Midnighter is impressive, but I personally dont think Midnighter would fair well against wolverine at all. Wolverine damage soak is simply to much.

Originally posted by Stoic
reason that he may have ever even landed a hit was due to his power set. Wolverine may have a very hard time scoring a finishing blow, while at the same time, she wouldn't be able to kill him, although a sword through the temple would go a long ways to knocking him out.

how would she send her sword through his temple? It made out of adamatium. Zealot is not to fast for wolverine to hit at all. Wolverine much more skilled then Midnighter. Midnighter is completely relient on his combat computer. She also does not have the speed feats to suggest she even faster then wolverien let a lone unhittbale.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Elektra is not some common ninja, she one of the best fighters on the planet. She also study dark martial arts, and is a telepath as well as have superhuman stats.

Elektra only manage to gain advantage against wolverine that just got off life support and she did this by using shield guards to distract wolverine and pinn him long enough for her to shove her sai's into his deltoids, that far cry form dancing aorund him.



He was the angle of death.


old master you mean Ogun? yes I would say Ogun is most deffiently superior to zealot.



There are many characters who can do that, like DD who wolverine as completely punked.

Fighting Midnighter is impressive, but I personally dont think Midnighter would fair well against wolverine at all. Wolverine damage soak is simply to much.



how would she send her sword through his temple? It made out of adamatium. Zealot is not to fast for wolverine to hit at all. Wolverine much more skilled then Midnighter. Midnighter is completely relient on his combat computer. She also does not have the speed feats to suggest she even faster then wolverien let a lone unhittbale.


Don't let her sexiness fool you, if Zealot looked her age you'd be looking at a very old bird, she's old enough and her knowledge of martial arts is so vast that, she would school Ogun, not the other way around. Just remember that she has super human strength, speed, grace, and vast knowledge from training for hundreds of years. Ogun only brings grace to the table. I wish someone could post some of Zealot's magical abilities, which would amp her.

Originally posted by Stoic
Don't let her sexiness fool you, if Zealot looked her age you'd be looking at a very old bird, she's old enough and her knowledge of martial arts is so vast that, she would school Ogun, not the other way around.
I know that she thousands of years old that not news to me.

she would school Ogun? are you kidding me? There is no way in hell that she would school Ogun. Do you even know who Ogun is? Clearly not. He lived for thousands of years. Through training and mastery in martial arts, not only has he amped all his abilities vastly into superhuman levels, but he made him self immortal, he a telepath as well, he can posses other bodies and literally take all there skill from there minds, even has ability to bring people to the shadowworld, oh and has superhuman healing factor. All of these abilities were through martial arts mastery. He is with out a doubt her superior and on a whole another level in MA.


Originally posted by Stoic
remember that she has super human strength, speed, grace, and vast knowledge from training for hundreds of years. Ogun only brings grace to the table. I wish someone could post some of Zealot's magical abilities, which would amp her.
dude you have no idea who Ogun is.........look above.

non of her stats are superior to Ogun or Wolverine.

Ogun's a spirit, right? He doesn't even have a physical form.

Check PM's Dum

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Ogun's a spirit, right? He doesn't even have a physical form.

Check PM's Dum
He doesent right now, he did have one. He can take over people as well. He achieve complete immortality through MA knowledge which is crazy.






k

Supposedly Z's immortal, too. Just because of her race, though.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I know that she thousands of years old that not news to me.

she would school Ogun? are you kidding me? There is no way in hell that she would school Ogun. Do you even know who Ogun is? Clearly not. He lived for thousands of years. Through training and mastery in martial arts, not only has he amped all his abilities vastly into superhuman levels, but he made him self immortal, he a telepath as well, he can posses other bodies and literally take all there skill from there minds, even has ability to bring people to the shadowworld, oh and has superhuman healing factor. All of these abilities were through martial arts mastery. He is with out a doubt her superior and on a whole another level in MA.



dude you have no idea who Ogun is.........look above.

non of her stats are superior to Ogun or Wolverine.

Perhaps I got the name wrong, is this the same guy that Wolverine defeated in his self titled mini? You know the bald guy? I never went futher than his appearance in the mini series, so I didn't know that he was immortal. All the same how does that fight make him her superior in strength, and speed?

Did you see Midnighter take a tank down using it's own mortar round? Zealot beat and schooled him. What has Ogun done on panel, to warrant such praise? How many guys has he taken down to compare to the armies of Daemonites that Zealot has killed?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Ogun's a spirit, right? He doesn't even have a physical form.

Check PM's Dum


Oh, hello he's a spirit, never knew this.

Originally posted by Stoic
Perhaps I got the name wrong, is this the same guy that Wolverine defeated in his self titled mini? You know the bald guy? I never went futher than his appearance in the mini series, so I didn't know that he was immortal. All the same how does that fight make him her superior in strength, and speed?

Did you see Midnighter take a tank down using it's own mortar round? Zealot beat and schooled him. What has Ogun done on panel, to warrant such praise? How many guys has he taken down to compare to the armies of Daemonites that Zealot has killed?
Thats not the same guy lol that shingen however it spelled, he father of silver samurai. Ogun completely different animal. That fight dident, becuase that not Ogun.

Notice how midnighters never replicated a feat that requires that amount of strength again? One time showings don't mean much on forums. Ogun done everything I mention on pannel. He doesent have the most showings in the world, but he an utter badass and uber tier fighter. He achieved everthing i said through MA training alone.

also what has zealot done to warrent her beating wolverine? Let alone being unhittable by him.

Originally posted by Stoic
Oh, hello he's a spirit, never knew this.
In a senses, he started off as a man. through MA mastery a lone he achieve immortal spirit of sorts which can't be destroyed. He can posses anyone he wishes for the most part and actaully implant his mind over there, and can steal there MA knolwedge.

Could he beat Val Armorr?

You mean karate kid?

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Thats not the same guy lol that shingen however it spelled, he father of silver samurai. Ogun completely different animal. That fight dident, becuase that not Ogun.

Notice how midnighters never replicated a feat that requires that amount of strength again? One time showings don't mean much on forums. Ogun done everything I mention on pannel. He doesent have the most showings in the world, but he an utter badass and uber tier fighter. He achieved everthing i said through MA training alone.

also what has zealot done to warrent her beating wolverine? Let alone being unhittable by him.

Ok now I'm on board, you proved me wrong, I have yet to read about Ogun, but if he was/is as bad as you say he is, and Wolverine took him, he should take Zealot. You did say that Wolverine beat him right? Also how is Wolverines temple area lined with adamantium? There is no bone in that location, just skin over brain mass.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
You mean karate kid?

Yeah.

Originally posted by Stoic
Ok now I'm on board, you proved me wrong, I have yet to read about Ogun, but if he was/is as bad as you say he is, and Wolverine took him, he should take Zealot. You did say that Wolverine beat him right? Also how is Wolverines temple area lined with adamantium? There is no bone in that location, just skin over brain mass.
Yea Wolverine did beat him.

Though thats not the reason why I think he wins. Zealot simply not faster, or stronger then wolverine nor more skilled. Sooner or later she gunna get tagged in it gunna slow he down, while wolverien can take what she dishes out in stride.



There deffiently bone, I just looked at a human skull.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Yea Wolverine did beat him.

Though thats not the reason why I think he wins. Zealot simply not faster, or stronger then wolverine nor more skilled. Sooner or later she gunna get tagged in it gunna slow he down, while wolverien can take what she dishes out in stride.



There deffiently bone, I just looked at a human skull.

Bone in the temple area? You mean the soft fleshly part of the head right? the side of the head, not the front, top, or back. The temple area on most humans would lie directly beside the ears.

Originally posted by Stoic
Bone in the temple area? You mean the soft fleshly part of the head right? the side of the head, not the front, top, or back. The temple area on most humans would lie directly beside the ears.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.labtechindia.net/product/Biology/bl42.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.labtechindia.net/educational-36-5-15.html&usg=__Mtj0MTDKV2TsvQfZaQij0Ndq3J4=&h=292&w=300&sz=7&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=lmFd_yb--2MXAM:&tbnh=110&tbnw=106&prev=/ images%3Fq%3Dhuman%2Bskull%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa
%3DN%26biw%3D1137%26bih%3D626%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C3&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=470&ei=EwabTPDhCIOdlgfwxI3gCQ&oei=EwabTPDhCIOdlgfwxI3gCQ&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=23&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0&tx=48&ty=60&biw=1137&bih=626


Look it all bone. If your talking about the ear open, that heads down wards, it be impossible to get a sword through there to the brain.

Well you got me, if Wolverine like I said before cleaned house with Ogun he would likely beat Zealot. You know what, I'm examining my skull, and you would never know without a picture of a real skull that there was bone there. That HF of his, makes it look pretty bad for Z in this fight. Marvel created a street level destroyer when they created him, and it's left me saying Porky Pigs famous last words.

Originally posted by Stoic
Well you got me, if Wolverine like I said before cleaned house with Ogun he would likely beat Zealot. You know what, I'm examining my skull, and you would never know without a picture of a real skull that there was bone there. That HF of his, makes it look pretty bad for Z in this fight. Marvel created a street level destroyer when they created him, and it's left me saying Porky Pigs famous last words.
hahaha true, yea I was surprised to find out how complete a skull is. it almost impossable to reach inside of the brak with out breaking the skull.



yea that why he low meta (though so would zealot be low meta), but yea wolverine pretty much gets pretty solid majority against any melee combatant, as long as they down have equal or greater healing factor with vastly superior strength. Or if they ahve vastly great strength and speed.

I'd say Zealot was a low meta, but if you factor in her mystical abilities she'd probably top off at high meta. Wolverine's skeletal strength alone places him physically above med meta, and add the HF, and he probably stands to be a counted as a high meta. I guess it depends on how we look at it, add his Berserker rage to the mix, and I can see him killing a few characters that are herald level.

Originally posted by Stoic
I'd say Zealot was a low meta, but if you factor in her mystical abilities she'd probably top off at high meta. Wolverine's skeletal strength alone places him physically above med meta, and add the HF, and he probably stands to be a counted as a high meta. I guess it depends on how we look at it, add his Berserker rage to the mix, and I can see him killing a few characters that are herald level.
really, why?


yea but this sight deffinition is differently. On the sight Wolverine on a low meta. Though i see what you mean. He can take on people in high meta like Thing and so forth. Thing is people don't really register defenses reactive abilities like healing factor much was concerning power levels, nor does he claws count for anything dispite the fact in melee they are extremely effective against even some of the most durable individuals.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
really, why?


yea but this sight deffinition is differently. On the sight Wolverine on a low meta. Though i see what you mean. He can take on people in high meta like Thing and so forth. Thing is people don't really register defenses reactive abilities like healing factor much was concerning power levels, nor does he claws count for anything dispite the fact in melee they are extremely effective against even some of the most durable individuals.

of course his claws count, what would he be striking with it they weren't? Air? If he didn't have them, then i would agree with the low meta assessment, but the claws and general skeletal strength, add a dynamic twist to Wolverine. When you factor in the HF, putting him down would be a hell of a chore.

You meant why would i place Zealot at top meta? Her mystical abilities make her more than just an avarage martials art grand master. Look at Dr. Strange, she's not on his level, but if you take into account what he could do with those powers he can range from high herald to perhaps low sky father. Physicaly though, he's just a meat wrapper.

Originally posted by Stoic
of course his claws count, what would he be striking with it they weren't? Air? If he didn't have them, then i would agree with the low meta assessment, but the claws and general skeletal strength, add a dynamic twist to Wolverine. When you factor in the HF, putting him down would be a hell of a chore.

You meant why would i place Zealot at top meta? Her mystical abilities make her more than just an avarage martials art grand master. Look at Dr. Strange, she's not on his level, but if you take into account what he could do with those powers he can range from high herald to perhaps low sky father. Physicaly though, he's just a meat wrapper.
People tend not to acknowledge them. people only seem to acknolwedge powerful offensive ability and strength. Wolverine adamatium seems not to be factor in becuase it not his power, but enhancement. Though there more then willing to allow other weapons to be factor in. Logan claws are almost completely ignored with his placement, and his healing factor is though adressed, it not factor in as highly as strength that he pretty comparable too. I agree, he also posses one of the ultimate melee weapons that can damage to most durable individual, but yet it does not matter in the placement for some reason


yes. But what are these abilities? Yes, but clearly her abilities arnt near that level. I mean techincally the same could be said of elektra, she uses dark martial arts which grant her reiduclous abilitys, creating illiusion, amping her states to superhuman levels, making her ahnd so durable that a bullet bounced off it ect. Then you have people like stick who create his own radar senses there dark martial arts and achieve a level of immportality through re carnation.


But I know what you mean, but the tier system is messed, I tried to have some one explain what there looking for but no one could give a deffient answer. I could not get Omega Red to high meta, dispite that he defeated colossus pretty easily 3 times, one of the times he had wolverien with him, the other time a team. Omega red recks teams has vast superhuman strength, durability, wolverine level healing factor, pheramones which could take out several individuals in high tier before a fight even started, then he also has detah factor which if he touches pretty much anyone, even thoses with high level healing factors he drains them. But still I couldent get him raised, there far to much bias in it. Dispite the fact he beat on colossus three times people still could no except the fact he superior.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
People tend not to acknowledge them. people only seem to acknolwedge powerful offensive ability and strength. Wolverine adamatium seems not to be factor in becuase it not his power, but enhancement. Though there more then willing to allow other weapons to be factor in. Logan claws are almost completely ignored with his placement, and his healing factor is though adressed, it not factor in as highly as strength that he pretty comparable too. I agree, he also posses one of the ultimate melee weapons that can damage to most durable individual, but yet it does not matter in the placement for some reason


yes. But what are these abilities? Yes, but clearly her abilities arnt near that level. I mean techincally the same could be said of elektra, she uses dark martial arts which grant her reiduclous abilitys, creating illiusion, amping her states to superhuman levels, making her ahnd so durable that a bullet bounced off it ect. Then you have people like stick who create his own radar senses there dark martial arts and achieve a level of immportality through re carnation.


But I know what you mean, but the tier system is messed, I tried to have some one explain what there looking for but no one could give a deffient answer. I could not get Omega Red to high meta, dispite that he defeated colossus pretty easily 3 times, one of the times he had wolverien with him, the other time a team. Omega red recks teams has vast superhuman strength, durability, wolverine level healing factor, pheramones which could take out several individuals in high tier before a fight even started, then he also has detah factor which if he touches pretty much anyone, even thoses with high level healing factors he drains them. But still I couldent get him raised, there far to much bias in it. Dispite the fact he beat on colossus three times people still could no except the fact he superior.


I know, look at Tyrant's tier placement, and yet he was able to bring a fed Galactus to his knees, and this happened when he was in a depowered state. Oh well, no system is perfect friend.

Originally posted by Stoic
I know, look at Tyrant's tier placement, and yet he was able to bring a fed Galactus to his knees, and this happened when he was in a depowered state. Oh well, no system is perfect friend.
True, I know it just frustrating at times. Omega Red thing annoy me the most, I never even tried to get Wolverine bumped, but with so much hate for him that never happen and I be ridiculed for even suggesting it, plus as long as spiderman in the same class as him im fine with it. However the red this annoying because there was never any reason give for why he can't be moved up a tier. I mean it certianly can't be versatility, he has both range attacks and life drain as well as range melee. while characters like Thing and Colossus are one dimensional. He also shown strength of at least 90 tons even not higher, so strength should not be the problem why he can't move up. His durability though lower then high level bricks is still capable of bullet prove and boozoka prove plus with wolverine level factor there not reason his ability to withstand damage should not be high enough. Unlike many bricks above him he also posses superhuman level of agility, speed and reflexes. But yet still people refuses to acknowledge this, because he a wolverine rogue. But people fail to understand that he toys with Wolverine to the point he does not even uses his death factor and he still wins easily. They also fail to acknowledge that he takes on entire teams of x-men as well and stomps.

I'd like to point out that Zealot doesn't have many feats with her magic, so I don't see why people are so caught up in it. She was afraid she'd be consumed by the power if she tapped into it.

It doesn't even matter now since she gave the magic up.

I agree with the statements about Wolverine. He's obviously not unbeatable, but the healing factor makes him one of the best melee characters among his peers; realisticly, he'll beat most meta level melee characters. Many people don't like him or feel he is "overpowered", so they undercut him in vs threads.

Originally posted by StyleTime
I'd like to point out that Zealot doesn't have many feats with her magic, so I don't see why people are so caught up in it. She was afraid she'd be consumed by the power if she tapped into it.

It doesn't even matter now since she gave the magic up.

I agree with the statements about Wolverine. He's obviously not unbeatable, but the healing factor makes him one of the best melee characters among his peers; realisticly, he'll beat most meta level melee characters. Many people don't like him or feel he is "overpowered", so they undercut him in vs threads.
agreed.